In short
This episode is an introduction to Wednesday Season 2’s official WoeCast and a behind-the-scenes look at the show’s “chaotic” moments and creative choices. Jenna Ortega (Wednesday Adams) discusses returning to the character, her preparation (fencing, cello, German), and specific performance decisions like “not blinking.” She also covers evolving costuming with Colleen Atwood/Mark Sutherland (90s summer chunky sandals, white fabric choices), Wednesday’s changing family dynamics with Morticia (Catherine Zeta-Jones) and new sibling Pugsley (Isaac), and a key plot pivot: Wednesday has a psychic vision Enid will die, forcing vulnerability and friendship growth. Ortega also explains her producer role and collaboration on scripts/prosthetics with Al Goff and Miles Miller. Goff and Miller (co-creators/co-showrunners) outline Season 2’s opener: Wednesday takes down a serial killer, plus writing choices for intergenerational Addams women (Grandmama played by Joanna Lumley), Morticia’s expanded presence, Principal Barry Dort (Steve Buscemi), and why Wednesday despises popularity. Notable examples include a stop-motion sequence (60 seconds, ~8 months, Tim Burton-designed head) and the pyre episode speech with Springsteen.
Guests
Jenna Ortega; Al Goff; Miles Miller; Catherine Zeta-Jones; Joanna Lumley; Steve Buscemi; plus referenced cast members Isaac (Pugsley), Emma Myers (Enid), Hunter Doohan (Tyler), director Paco Cabezas, and Thing’s actor Victor Dorbansu.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOEntering Wednesday's Headspace
0:45 to 2:36
Jenna Ortega discusses preparations and mindset for her character.
“We'll also be talking with Al Goff and Miles Miller, the twisted minds behind the show.”
Wardrobe and Costuming Insights
2:36 to 4:24
Jenna talks about the evolution of Wednesday's look this season.
“Well, I read somewhere that you sort of mastered the art of not blinking, which is, I noticed it a lot more this season too, where I'm like, yeah, no, she's not blinking.”
Family Dynamics in Season Two
4:24 to 6:48
Jenna discusses changes in Wednesday's relationships with her family.
“So how do we see Wednesday's dynamic with her mother expand and change?”
Evolving Relationships with Enid
6:48 to 9:16
Discussion on Wednesday's evolving relationship with Enid this season.
“oh yeah absolutely I was like thank you yeah thank you guys anytime I did a scene with Joanna Lumley and then Catherine Zeta-Jones.”
Jenna's Role as Producer
9:16 to 11:13
Jenna shares her experience transitioning to a producer role this season.
“It's strange because Wednesday is doing all of this for a friend.”
Returning to the Scene of the Crime
11:13 to 13:09
Jenna reflects on her character's past and future developments.
“We kind of always had a collaborative relationship, but it was really wonderful.”
Introducing the Creative Team
13:09 to 14:00
Caitlin welcomes the creators Al Goff and Miles Miller to discuss the show.
“future about episode eight me too wait this is the first time you've ever willingly returned to a school how does it feel like returning to the scene of the crime i already know where the bodies are buried.”
Kicking Off the Season with Wednesday
14:00 to 14:59
The hosts discuss the season's opening and Wednesday's character development.
“So right off the bat, at the beginning of the season, we're back in action.”
Exploring the Addams Family Dynamics
15:00 to 16:12
Insights into the Addams family's backstory and female relationships.
“Well, and now you have an acting credit on IMDb.”
Introducing Joanna Lumley as Grandma
16:13 to 17:21
Discussion on the casting of Joanna Lumley and her role in the series.
“I love the generational story that's going on with the women.”
Show all 19 chapters
Catherine Zeta-Jones' Role as Morticia
17:22 to 19:23
Exploring Catherine Zeta-Jones' portrayal of Morticia and family dynamics.
“she asked for my help you're not helping driving a wedge between me and my daughter that wedge was already an unbridgeable abyss dear my advice stop the constant hovering Wednesday needs space to grow.”
Wednesday's Change in Friendships
19:24 to 21:46
How Wednesday's relationship with Enid evolves this season.
“Yeah, I mean, Captain Zeta, She's such a perfect choice for Morticia, and she plays it so beautifully.”
The Reluctant Heroine: Wednesday's Growth
21:47 to 23:41
Discussing Wednesday's reluctant heroism and emotional growth.
“It's, yeah, it's actually, she underestimates Enid.”
Introducing Principal Dort
23:42 to 26:18
The new principal's character and casting Steve Buscemi.
“Oh, it is an honor to meet the Savior of Nevermore.”
Wednesday's Struggle with Popularity
26:19 to 27:49
Wednesday's disdain for popularity and its implications on her character.
“Now, once Wednesday gets back to Nevermore, she's confronted with a horrifying fact.”
The Creative Vision Behind the Stop-Motion Sequence
27:50 to 28:00
Exploring the decision to include a stop-motion sequence in the show.
Creating the Stop Motion Sequence
28:00 to 29:22
Learn about the creative process behind the stop motion sequence in the show.
“which we need for backstory, the sculptury, the legend of the sculptury.”
Never Boring: The Mantra of the Writers
29:22 to 30:28
Discover the philosophy of the writers to keep each episode engaging.
“and how long it takes to make, you know.”
Teasing Upcoming Episodes
30:28 to 31:45
Get a sneak peek into the next episode and its exciting guests.
“In the next episode, I will be joined by Hunter Doohan, who will be here to dish all on Tyler and Wednesday, Tyler and his master, and transforming into a hide.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jenna Ortega:Anytime I did a scene with Joanna Lumley and then Catherine Zeta-Jones, I was in awe, just so impressed. Truly, truly such masters at what they do. It was, those were always some of my favorite days on set.
0:16Caitlin Reilly:Hello, my little vipers. I am Caitlin Reilly and this is the Wednesday Season 2 official WOCast. Over the next eight episodes, we'll be looking back at the most chaotic moments from the show and chatting with the geniuses, the actual geniuses who made it happen. Ajax is just lending his hand and that really means a lot in Bianca's world. First up on the WoeCast, we've got Jenna Ortega here to spill her psychic vision for season two. We'll also be talking with Al Goff and Miles Miller, the twisted minds behind the show. And along the way, our producer, Thing. Hey, buddy. He's going to help me make sure everyone can be seen and heard.
1:04Caitlin Reilly:I am now joined by Wednesday Adams herself. She needs no introduction, but we'll give her one anyway. Thanks. Thank you for joining us, Jenna Ortega. Yeah. Hey, guys. How you doing? So last season, you did so much preparation for Wednesday. You were fencing. You learned how to play the cello. You learned how to speak German. How did you get back into Wednesday's headspace for this season?
1:31Jenna Ortega:I feel like I kind of fell into her quite naturally. A few years had passed since the show had come out. But sometimes when you do a character for so long, because we were shooting the first season for eight months or something like that. So she was very familiar to me. And also when you're working in that headspace and you're working on scripts that have that sort of dark sense of humor and certain kind of cadence and rhythm and humor, I do feel as though I've taken some of those traits with me just because I was practicing them all the time. Right. And, you know, sometimes outside of your life when you're not working, you're thinking about how can I get into that deeper mindset.
2:05Jenna Ortega:So I don't know. I knew that that part existed and so much of Wednesday relies on the physicality, which helps as well. And then Colleen Atwood, the wardrobe designer, she's absolutely incredible. Incredible. Yeah, so her costumes as well. Nirvana Jalalvand, who did my hair and makeup for season one, did my hair and makeup this time around. So again, trusted her. She knows everything. There was no hesitation or question. So there was just something about all of us being prepared and knowing what we were getting into already. Helps you snap back. Yeah, first season was stressful and scary and confusing.
2:36Caitlin Reilly:Well, I read somewhere that you sort of mastered the art of not blinking, which is, I noticed it a lot more this season too, where I'm like, yeah, no, she's not blinking. And it's such an incredible choice you've made with the character, I have to say.
2:50Jenna Ortega:Oh, thanks. I don't know when that happened. I just remember kicking myself once I realized that it was a thing. It felt wrong to have my eyes closed. And it's always funny because I appreciate the editor, Jay, because he, I think, knows when to use the blinks and vulnerable moments sometimes. And, you know, you can assist as much as you can, but I feel like I'm almost getting worse at it. I think the older I get and the more tired I get, just the more my eyes are dry.
3:16Caitlin Reilly:Well, you made a choice and now you have to stick with it. I know. But it's a good choice. Yes. I didn't see any blinking happening. It was great. Appreciate that. So how did we evolve Wednesday's look this season with her costuming? Were you working closely with Colleen and her team? How is it different this season from last season?
3:34Jenna Ortega:I trust Colleen Atwood and Mark Sutherland so immensely that I just kind of let them play and do what they need to do. Right. I think when I first had my big fitting, you have one big fitting at the beginning of a show and then you're shooting so much it's harder to get in. so we just did hours of trying on clothes and because we're coming back from summer break they were saying something about it being kind of 90s summer we are trying chunky sandals with white socks i don't like wednesday doesn't like showing skin so it's you know it was just very awkward the palest parts of my body were white fabric from the long t-shirts and things like that but they're the coolest and um yeah you you don't want to get in the way of their genius at Yeah.
4:13Caitlin Reilly:I wanted to touch on the Addams clan expanding this season. Pugsley is a new student at Nevermore, which is a new dynamic for you and your brother. Morticia and Gomez are closer than ever. Gross. So how do we see Wednesday's dynamic with her mother expand and change? And what was it like bringing that to life with Catherine Zeta-Jones?
4:35Jenna Ortega:Well, it was a hard balance because she's very annoyed with her mother and I didn't want to repeat season one because they're kind of going head to head the entire time. But in the same breath, it's entirely understandable if you're looking for your independence and trying to be your own person and then your mom comes to babysit you and hover you. That's frustrating for anybody. But I try to make sure that there's a bit more love in between. And maybe you saw that, you know, Wednesday wasn't being completely irrational about it. and I don't know, I just didn't want it to be the same thing. So I tried to work with that and then it was wonderful having Pugsley around.
5:09Jenna Ortega:Isaac, I think, looks like he came straight out of a Charles Adams comic strip. He's got such a perfect look. He's grown into Pugsley even more and more. I remember when we auditioned him for the first time, we were auditioning Pugsley's and he got off the Zoom and we all just kind of looked at each other, me, Tim, Al Miles, and we just said, okay, so it's him, right? He was just the most unanimous cast that we had and he's great and I love to be able to bully him. It's hard because Wednesday has to balance so much of the mystery aspect that you want to make sure that her personality still gets to shine a bit more and it's not just all information, information or it comes off nasty or bratty.
5:48Jenna Ortega:So it was nice to have, you know, it's understandable to bicker with your sibling. So he was always a nice comedic relief. There's a stop sign coming up. Hit the O dead center.
5:59Al Gough:I'm not sure I can.
6:01Jenna Ortega:If you don't. I'll be forced to hit eject.
6:05Al Gough:Only Dad's button can do that. I had Thing rewire it.
6:11Caitlin Reilly:We meet Grandmama this season. I know. What? I mean, filming? Those were some of my favorite scenes that you had.
6:19Jenna Ortega:Those were some of my favorite scenes to shoot as well. Joanna Lumley. Legend. An icon. Legend. She's everything you would hope her to be and more. She's just so sweet, so unbelievably funny. the most professional on set um knew everyone's lines uh I don't think I ever saw her mess up once honestly and she looked amazing that Bride of Frankenstein hair reference was so cool the best hair and a lot of our crew um they're from the UK as well so oh so I'm sure she was they all screamed oh yeah absolutely I was like thank you yeah thank you guys anytime I did a scene with Joanna Lumley and then Catherine Zeta-Jones.
7:01Jenna Ortega:I was in awe, just so impressed and truly, truly such masters at what they do. It was, those were always some of my favorite days on set. Yeah.
7:10Al Gough:Grandma was always better at burying things than fixing them. Old memories are like old corpses. They never quite seem the same when you dig them up.
7:24Jenna Ortega:Mama, what an unpleasant surprise.
7:26Al Gough:Varicus told me you rang. And I wanted to give Wednesday the deed to the cemetery I bought her. Just a little starter property. Give her a taste of the family business.
7:37Caitlin Reilly:I wanted to talk about some more relationships with you. You see a difference in your dynamic this season with Enid. So I wanted to talk about reuniting with Emma and expanding on that relationship this season. How it's changing and how it's going to change.
7:51Jenna Ortega:I don't want to speak on Emma's behalf, but in the same breath, we talked a lot about Enid's style kind of changing and the way that she carried herself. And that's a very natural thing for a teenager to do. And she looked cool. She was becoming more confident and independent and, you know, was a very strong believer in her own strength, which I think is really empowering and incredible for girls to see. I'm so glad that Emma—Emma is so great. She really is so talented. So I was glad that she had a bit more to play with.
8:19Caitlin Reilly:Yeah, she was great this season.
8:21Jenna Ortega:Yeah, she's just, God, she's such a lovable character. And that's all thanks to Emma. So anytime, we're kind of distant. Not to give too much away, but we're kind of distant in the first few episodes. It was so strange to play that, you know, that distance. Because shooting with her, those are the easiest, for sure. We just have a natural chemistry and rapport. And it was weird to go against that. I died because of you. I died because of you!
8:55Caitlin Reilly:So Wednesday has a psychic vision that Enid's going to die. And even though Wednesday is obviously so stoic and brilliantly played by you, she has to save her best friend. So what paths do you think that that puts Wednesday on that might be different from what we've already seen from her?
9:17Jenna Ortega:It's strange because Wednesday is doing all of this for a friend. and that just itself is, you know, unnatural to her and new for her and it puts her in an uncomfortable position because she's kind of extending herself in a way that she hasn't before. I think that that was really big and it's the first time where maybe she doesn't want to inflict pain on somebody else, at least not take it that far. You know, she's okay to mess with Enid a little, but I think death is a step too far.
9:45Caitlin Reilly:Yeah, I'm sort of noticing in this season there's a level of vulnerability that Wednesday is experiencing where she really is starting to care for Enid and wants to take care of her as a friend as opposed to just putting herself in a box and sticking to what is in her comfort zone. And so I think that's been really interesting to see and I've been loving that.
10:07Jenna Ortega:Yeah. And it was really important to me also that it's just Wednesday doesn't want to talk about it.
10:12Caitlin Reilly:She doesn't want to acknowledge it, that it just exist. And your relationship with Enid's really incredible. And I mean, I was such a fan watching this season. Yeah, they're cute together. Yeah, and I just, I love where Wednesday's going and she's being broken open a little bit. And it's been really nice to see you play that for sure. Nice.
10:31Jenna Ortega:I just have so many goals this year. I want to secure my place in the pack, become dance troupe captain, and finally join the nightshades. What about you? Avoid people and work on my new Viper de la Muerte novel. That doesn't sound like much of a personal evolution. I don't evolve. I cocoon. So in addition to starring on the show, you are a producer this
10:55Caitlin Reilly:season. How has your role changed? What have you learned? What has it been like collaborating with Alan Miles on this season?
11:02Jenna Ortega:Well, I feel like I'm a part of conversations earlier on, which is really nice. I love to see the process. I love what I do. So it's so fascinating to watch the scripts being made and, you know, be a part of the pitches or decisions being made on prosthetics. We kind of always had a collaborative relationship, but it was really wonderful. Me, Al, Miles, Tim being able to sit together and just kind of break down scripts and decide what we felt was best for the character and the show. And because I love film, TV, I've always wanted to be on the other side of the camera. I feel like I've learned so much.
11:34Jenna Ortega:And I was lucky enough to be with people who allowed me to learn and shadow them and, you know, follow Tim around on location scouts and things like that.
11:42Caitlin Reilly:I mean, that's a dream. Location scouting with Tim. Yeah. Sounds like the best day ever. Now, do you find that putting on your producer hat is easier or is it harder than putting on your actor hat?
11:55Jenna Ortega:I guess sometimes it depends on the job. Certain characters require different things. But with Wednesday, because she's so particular and it's not always about feeling natural, playing her is actually quite unnatural because you have to keep reminding yourself to do less do less do less right I look at everything in a more objective sense because it's really about the image on the outside and every once in a while you have to work the gears I don't know it's a fine balance but also doing it for so long you snap into it I knew what the character needed and I had studied her enough and understood her well enough at that point and then producer was just more so I'm very observant and oftentimes on set it can be quiet and I just like to watch people work.
12:36Jenna Ortega:Sometimes I don't like leaving the sun. I don't like going back to the tent. I like to watch everyone work. So I think having been familiar with the way the set operated already, you know, we try to find our time. Also, such a busy schedule. We try to find time in between setups and takes and things like that to have conversations about the show, which was nice and better. You know, you can bring a book or something in between set, but you're not really gonna be that productive in it exactly it's more fun to watch and soak it all in definitely
13:03Caitlin Reilly:yeah thank you so much jennifer joining us thank you and i look forward to talking to you in the
13:09Jenna Ortega:future about episode eight me too wait this is the first time you've ever willingly returned to a school how does it feel like returning to the scene of the crime i already know where the bodies are
Read the full transcript
13:23Caitlin Reilly:buried. I need to make a note on the scripts for the next episode of the Wocast thing. Can you grab a pen for me, please?
13:35Caitlin Reilly:Thing, you okay, bud? Aye.
13:44Caitlin Reilly:I am so excited to welcome the dream team behind Wednesday. They are co-creators, co-showrunners, executive producers, and writers. That's a lot. Everybody, please welcome Al Goff and Miles Miller.
14:01Al Gough:Thank you. Thank you.
14:02Caitlin Reilly:So right off the bat, at the beginning of the season, we're back in action. Why did you want to kick off the season that way? By having Wednesday take down a killer?
14:11Al Gough:We wanted to show Wednesday. It's sort of what she did on her summer vacation.
14:16Caitlin Reilly:I see.
14:16Al Gough:So it was like, what would Wednesday Adams do on her summer vacation? She'd take down a serial killer. so it allowed us to and to see Wednesday in the real world which is also fun and see her going up against authority figures like she does at the TSA
14:30Miles Millar:and now very famous TSA officer Al finally got a cameo in the I was
14:35Caitlin Reilly:I was gonna yeah
14:37Miles Millar:yeah yeah
14:37Al Gough:you were like who's the guy in the baseball cap he looks very familiar to you yes he does he does I was roped into that by Miles and Tim Burton
14:45Caitlin Reilly:you wanted to do it don't lie Al
14:47Al Gough:no I did not I didn't but I had done the same thing to Miles in the season one opener, where he was the judgy teacher. And so... Ah. So it was sweet revenge for me. So Miles was smiling the whole time, until I got a line, and then he was annoyed.
15:01Caitlin Reilly:Well, and now you have an acting credit on IMDb. Exactly. Now, we see so much of the intergenerational Adams women this season, which I loved. How did you approach those dynamics writing-wise?
15:14Al Gough:It was definitely an intentional choice. I mean, what's interesting about the Addams family is everybody loves them. We know very little about them. Because before the television show in the 60s, they didn't even have names. They were named for the TV show. Then you have the movies in the 90s. And then you have some animated things. And now, but nobody knows about the family.
15:36Miles Millar:There isn't a deep law. There isn't a deep law. Or mythology or comic books or books or novels. It's just, they began as panels, literally, in the New Yorker. And so it's, for us, it's grazing because it's a clean slate. It's the map we can chart ourselves in terms of learning the backstory, the history of the Addams family, and then also giving them some complexity. And we love the female relationships, but, you know, when we've introduced Grandma this season, which was played by Joanna Lumley.
16:05Caitlin Reilly:Was that a choice that you guys had early on?
16:08Al Gough:It was literally the choice in the writer's room. We're like, we need like a Joanna Lumley type. And then we're like, what?
16:15Caitlin Reilly:I love the generational story that's going on with the women. It's so brilliantly written.
16:22Miles Millar:And just the look.
16:24Caitlin Reilly:The look.
16:25Miles Millar:The costumes and the hair. It's just like, and she, even the American accent. I've never heard her do American accent before. Oh, same. And it's just perfect. She was great.
16:33Caitlin Reilly:She was, ugh.
16:34Miles Millar:And she's such a delight on set. And everyone just like, she just, word perfect. She comes in and just nails it. And it's just such a delight to be with. So it's just adding her to it and the scene, the three generations of Adam's women together is just something that, you know, we hoped would be good and it's just surpassed our expectations. I can't wait to do more with them. Yes. It's a really special chemistry between the three of them. Yes. And I think you see it on screen and I think it's really, really good.
17:03Al Gough:Darling, Grandma and I need to speak. Alone.
17:10Al Gough:Augustus Stonehurst that's who signed those death certificates
17:19Al Gough:what are you and Wednesday up to? she asked for my help you're not helping driving a wedge between me and my daughter that wedge was already an unbridgeable abyss dear my advice stop the constant hovering Wednesday needs space to grow. If she gets into a little trouble, it's a mother's job to stand back, let her figure it out for herself, thrive or die, says the woman whose youngest daughter has been missing for 20 years.
17:47Caitlin Reilly:What has it been like getting to make Catherine Zeta-Jones a more central figure this season? We see her sing, dance, sword fight. She's incredible.
17:57Al Gough:Well, I think one thing we learned from season one, like we said, is people wanted to know more about the family. Yeah. And we wanted to find a way to sort of organically bring the family into the school without feeling like they were just being shoehorned in. Right. So the idea that she would be the gala chairperson, you know, suddenly she's there and around, but not, you know, she's not like a teacher at the school or something, you know, but she's there. And it allowed us to really flesh out the mother-daughter story, which, again, you got glimpses of in season one, you know, in episodes one and five.
18:30Al Gough:And I think we enjoyed that so much. And so did the fans from the feedback we got. And again, they wanted to know more. Because what's interesting about the Addams family is the dynamic had always been set up like a sitcom. If you look at the first, the original show, which is the Addamses were always aligned against the outside world. So what this show tries to do is interject an actual family dynamic. They all still love each other. You know, we all have families that love each other, but you can still have conflict within the families and generational conflict and, you know, issues with, you know, parents and children and grandparents.
19:07Al Gough:And particularly there's the mother-daughter dynamic, which is always interesting in most families. Know it well. Yes, yes. So it's playing the way, it's really... We've had a front row seat in our family.
19:16Caitlin Reilly:I'm sure.
19:17Al Gough:Yeah. Yeah. It's always good. And then they want audience participation. I'd rather not play, thank you.
19:23Caitlin Reilly:I get it. Yeah, I mean, Captain Zeta, She's such a perfect choice for Morticia, and she plays it so beautifully.
19:33Al Gough:Well, we were, and it's funny, when we had this, you know, when we were first casting that role in season one, you know, even Tim was like, Jen, you know, Wednesday's mother has to be a lot. You know what I mean? Like, who would be the mother where you felt like you couldn't get out of her shadow? An Oscar-winning actress would do that.
19:51Caitlin Reilly:Velma Kelly herself. Yeah, exactly.
19:54Miles Millar:Finding, you know, who is Morticia's mother? Yes. You know, you needed like an icon, a legend. So Joanna was like, oh, so each one feels like real. They bring great baggage to their roles. Yeah. So you have their great as their roles, but also like they say the Oscar winning actress, legendary sitcom star. So you have that whole thing, the delicious soup that happens. Yeah. It's amazing. Delicious soup. Yeah.
20:18Jenna Ortega:Are we going to talk about what happened last night at the pyre? You really freaked me out with the fainting spell and black tears. I'm fine. If you were really fine, Lurch wouldn't have had to carry you out of there. For someone who hates being the center of attention, you have a weird habit of attracting it. I'd rather attract leprosy. I know that being popular goes against everything Wednesday core, but for the rest of us who also helped save the school, it is a nice silver lining. Then consider me your dark cloud. Always.
20:47Caitlin Reilly:Now, outside of the Addams clan, Wednesday's other relationships expand and change a lot this season. We immediately see a difference in her dynamic with Enid. Maybe there's a little distance, maybe a little tension. How do we see Enid and Wednesday's relationship change this season?
21:04Al Gough:Well, Enid and Wednesday, I mean, their relationship is really kind of, the female friendship is really core to the show. And, you know, season one with the hug was like, oh, they're friends. Right. But this is the thing with Wednesday. She's never had a friend. And friends, relationships and friendships change. And Enid has changed because now she's wolfed out. She has more confidence. She's part of a pack. She's got a boyfriend. She's got a boyfriend. So all of those things. So she's not the same Enid from season one. So I think Wednesday also has to navigate that. And then, of course, by the end of the first episode, she finds out she could be responsible for Enid's death.
21:40Al Gough:Rather than bringing Enid into that, Wednesday feels like she can't handle it. I'll deal with this myself. So it's still Wednesday learning how to be a friend. Right.
21:51Miles Millar:You know, I mean. That's just the arc of the season. It's, yeah, it's actually, she underestimates Enid. Yeah. So it's sort of a, and one of Wednesday's issues is her arrogance and her lack of understanding this idea of change. Because she doesn't understand change. It's also about control.
22:07Caitlin Reilly:Yeah.
22:07Miles Millar:That she thinks she could control everything and control everyone, and she finds she can't.
22:11Al Gough:She has the emotional growth. It's like AM radio bandwidth. Right. You know, it's very small, but it's very meaningful when it happens. If it happens. If it happens. You know, because, and what's interesting in the challenge of writing the character is she's doing all the things you would want a girl detective to do, but not for any of the reasons that a normal protagonist would do them. She's not really, she's not there to save the day or to help people. She ends up doing all those things, but she's really there for her own, you know, curiosity and to prove she's right and to solve a mystery that she can't solve because she's the smartest person in the room.
22:50Caitlin Reilly:Well, she's also very much like a reluctant hero.
22:53Miles Millar:Very much. Very much. And also, one of the challenges for us is that you have to protect the idea of Wednesday. So she's never going to be someone who is doing it out there for good and justice. She's doing it for other reasons. And I think that's, and it's actually, we always have to keep ourselves honest sometimes. You fall into the trope of that she is rescuing people for these various reasons. And sometimes you're allowed to do that. In some episodes, she does do things because she cares about someone. But it's few and far between, and you have to earn that moment. And also, we have this rule about really making sure that the Wednesday people know and have always grown up with, she needs to be that person.
23:31Miles Millar:She's not going to go through a huge arc like a normal protagonist would. There's a purity to her and to her point of view that we need to keep and honor.
23:41Al Gough:Wednesday Adams. Oh, it is an honor to meet the Savior of Nevermore. Allow me to introduce myself, Barry Dort, your new principal. Would you like a sticker?
23:55Jenna Ortega:Only if you have one that says, do not resuscitate.
24:00Caitlin Reilly:There's that wicked tongue I've heard so much about. I love it. We have a duplicitous new principal at the center of this season. Tell us about Principal Dort and what has it been like welcoming Steve Buscemi to the cast, another incredible casting choice, might I say.
24:18Miles Millar:Yeah. Well, for us, it was like, how do we top Gwendolyn Christie in terms of Weems? How do you? Well, with Steve Buscemi. Right. Yeah. So it was just finding someone who was the opposite of Weems and attitudinally, but also visually. So it was just something that we really wanted to find someone different. And Steve is such an icon. And the fact he wanted to do it was, and he'd watched the show, was a huge fan. It was just a total delight. He brings such a different energy to the show. and in episode one is the great speech on the at the pyre where he dances to Bruce Springsteen that was an idea Tim had the night before it was like you know guys I think I want to have like a we had a line about Springsteen being an outcast and then Tim said let's play the song it was like we had to get the rights cleared in like 12 hours so it was a really and just talking to Colleen about the look so he we had to go from the classic beauty of Gwendolyn and the Tippi Hedren Hitchcockian Femme Fatale to Steve in a couple.
25:17Miles Millar:Yeah.
25:18Al Gough:It's like dad core. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but it's the idea too that, you know, where Weems is all about trying to, you know, merge the normies and the outcasts and have that, you know, Dort's approach is, nope, it's just outcasts on our own, outcast pride, sort of trying to build, build up their confidence and such. So, you know, and of course, he's a huckster underneath, but he does, he brings such a great energy to it. That's different. and that's what we really want.
25:46Miles Millar:And he's so likable. He's a total huckster and even there's a scene in episode one where he's sort of like really manipulative with Bianca and it's kind of, it's really creepy and menacing but it's Steve so you kind of like, you don't hate him. It's Steve. You don't hate him.
25:58Caitlin Reilly:That's what we all say. Right? Hey, it's Steve. Come on.
26:02Al Gough:And he had a great thing where he wanted his, his hair style. He also is a guy who looks good in a wig which is crazy.
26:07Caitlin Reilly:He looks really good in a wig.
26:08Al Gough:And that was his idea because his hair is based on Edgar Allan Poe's. So that was his idea. Yeah, it was great. So good.
26:14Caitlin Reilly:Oh, God. We love Steve in the studio. Yes, always. We love Steve. Love Steve. Thank you, Steve. Now, once Wednesday gets back to Nevermore, she's confronted with a horrifying fact. She's popular. Gross. Why does Wednesday despise this new development so much?
26:30Al Gough:With people like her, she's not going to like that. Right. You know, she likes being her own person. She likes the fact that people don't like her, that she makes them uncomfortable. She's an island.
26:39Miles Millar:She's not interested in joining other people. So that's, again, the purity of Wednesday Adams. It's like, she doesn't care. That's the last thing she wants is eyes on her. She wants to live in her own little corner and do what she does.
26:50Al Gough:And she's not going to allow herself to be manipulated by popularity. So I think, you know, that's why, you know, I love the speech when she gets up there because it was just like, I'm not going to do this.
27:00Caitlin Reilly:Yeah.
27:01Al Gough:You know, this is not who I am. You know, this is all stupid. I'm not doing this. She's never going to conform.
27:06Miles Millar:And it's part of the aspirational element of the character that she does things that people wish they could. People are chasing popularity, but she doesn't need to.
27:13Al Gough:Right.
27:13Miles Millar:So I think she sees through that, and I think that's refreshing. But also there's a downside in terms of, does that make her happy?
27:21Caitlin Reilly:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of isolating to stick to your guns.
27:25Miles Millar:That's right, and there are pros and cons to that. I think that's something we definitely explore in the show. Yeah.
27:32Jenna Ortega:You thought I was your hero? I'm not. I always play dirty, and I never fight fair. The only side I want is my own. And the only place I'll lead you is off a cliff.
27:44Caitlin Reilly:So the first episode includes this incredible stop-motion sequence. Very classic Tim Burton. What was the impetus behind that?
27:55Miles Millar:The stop-motion sequence began as a, really began as someone telling the story, which we need for backstory, the sculptury, the legend of the sculptury. and then as we were writing we thought you know this is just boring so how do we make it special and unique and very tim so we sort of came up with the idea let's do a stop motion sequence and it's actually very expensive to do that so we thought if ever we get a chance to do stop motion this is the moment in terms of like this show so we talked to tim and tim loved the idea and we got a team in the UK who had worked with Tim before and they built these incredible sets and it was, it took probably eight months actually from start to finish and it's only 60 seconds and just the attention to detail and then Tim actually designed the head.
28:44Miles Millar:Did he really? Yeah. Wow. So he came in, they said, I'll come over to see Tim in his trailer and he had this little like Tupperware box and inside, he opened it up and in this tissue paper was this, model head that he had built or made over the weekend. It's a bunch of like safety pins for hair. And it was just like this most, just seeing this decapitated head of this design in this box was just like, oh my God, it's going to be incredible. So it really, and I got to go to see the sets and see them making a few seconds of the sequence. And it was just mind blowing how big the sets were, the detail of the sets and just the attention to detail and how long it takes to make, you know.
29:24Caitlin Reilly:I mean, there's so much going on this season, and it really is, I mean, as an audience member, viewer, fan, and SAG-AFTRA actor, I had to. It all blends so seamlessly. There's so much going on, so many different storylines, and I loved this season, I just have to say. That's great. Yeah.
29:45Miles Millar:Our mantra in our writer's room is always, never boring. Right. So that's, every episode has to be a full feast of…
29:51Caitlin Reilly:Nevermore is never boring. Nevermore is never boring.
29:54Miles Millar:So for us, it's always about keep grabbing attention and making sure that we have a lot of spinning plates. And somehow at the end, they all don't fall. Come together. They don't break. Yeah.
30:05Caitlin Reilly:But it's juggling. Yeah.
30:07Miles Millar:Sometimes it's like in the middle of it, it's like, oh, my God, all these things are going to like come together. Yeah.
30:13Caitlin Reilly:They did.
30:14Miles Millar:Yeah. Well, it's great. Good to hear.
30:15Caitlin Reilly:You did good work, guys. Thank you. Good job. Thank you so much both for joining me today and being here. I cannot wait to have you back on to get in all the juicy details of the rest of the season. Great. Thank you. Thank you.
30:32Caitlin Reilly:In the next episode, I will be joined by Hunter Doohan, who will be here to dish all on Tyler and Wednesday, Tyler and his master, and transforming into a hide. Who was the worst? Who was the worst?
30:45Al Gough:Owen Painter. He's awful.
30:49Caitlin Reilly:Plus, I'll be chatting with director Paco Cabezas, who will break down all of the insane action we have seen so far.
30:56Jenna Ortega:He goes super close to her, and they're like super, super close to each other, but there's a wall in between them. In the end, it's all about the little movements and the little details.
31:06Caitlin Reilly:And magician, actor, Thing's emotional support human, Victor Dorbansu, will be here to talk us through Thing's journey this season.
31:14Al Gough:Big lesson, guys. Don't drink prop drinks. What was it? It was not rum, for sure.
31:21Caitlin Reilly:That is all coming up on the next episode of the Wednesday Season 2 official WOCast. I'm Caitlin Riley, and I'll catch you next time, my little nightshades.
31:44Thank you.
From the publisher
Do you like podcasts about crime? Well, the Wednesday Season 2 Official Woecast is here and it’s as twisted, unhinged, and relaxing as any true crime podcast. Hosted by Caitlin Reilly, the Woecast is your backstage pass to Nevermore Academy and beyond, with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes secrets, and episode-by-episode breakdowns.
BE WARNED! This podcast will contain spoilers for Wednesday Season 2, episodes 1-4.
In this episode: Jenna Ortega peels back the layers on the new tension between Wednesday and Enid. And that terrifying vision!
Plus… Series showrunners Al Gough and Miles Millar reveal why they made Morticia Addams such a central character in this season, and what it means for Wednesday.
Whether you’re a normie or an outcast, the Wednesday Season 2 Official Woecast will be the place for all things Nevermore!
For more juicy details about Wednesday Season 2, head over to Tudum.com to get all of the latest updates.