Love Con Revenge | Part 1

0:00Rebecca Lavoie:I'm Rebecca Lavoie and this is You Can't Make This Up.

0:14Rebecca Lavoie:You Can't Make This Up is the podcast where we uncover the true stories behind your favorite Netflix documentaries and films. On today's episode, we take a closer look at the Netflix documentary series Love Con Revenge. Frosters have the ability to go underground for a very long time. This is their job. And they're damn good at their job. Today we're talking to host Cecilia Fjellhoi. After her story of falling prey to the so-called Tinder swindler, Cecilia Fjellhoi became an advocate for those taken in by romance cons. Now, she returns to expose those targeting unsuspecting victims and seek justice for those deceived by them.

0:55Rebecca Lavoie:In the Netflix series Love Con Revenge, Cecilia teams up with a private investigator to track down other swindlers and tell the stories of those left both broke and heartbroken. Faced with limited legal options, the team goes to bat for a group of victims who were ripped off in different ways, but were all victims in elaborate romantic long cons. But the thing is, the ones you realize what they've done and how many lives they've wrecked, you don't stop.

1:32Rebecca Lavoie:And I'm joined now by Cecilia Fjellhoy. Cecilia, welcome to You Can't Make This Up. Oh, thank you so much for having me. The world met you, and I met you, in Netflix's The Tinder Swindler. Can you remind listeners of your own story of love, con, revenge? Yeah, like I, as a lot of other people, I was online dating, and I right swiped on a guy I shouldn't have. And exactly when the door closes, he just takes me around the waist and he just looks at me and he just draws me in and he just gives me this kiss. And I was like, oh shit, you know, the kind of butterflies. It was passionate and was just the perfect first kiss that you could have, you know.

2:12We entered into a relationship and he told me he was the CEO of a big diamond company. And after a while, he came into trouble and needed my help. And since I loved him, trusted him, I took him on his word and it ended up that I had lost over$250 ,000 at the end of it.

2:31Rebecca Lavoie:What happened to you was incredibly personal. And then you spoke about it on this Netflix documentary that millions of people saw. What was it like to be thrown and you have your story thrown into this public sphere? I think no one can actually prepare yourself for going public with something like this. But I had kind of, I went public back in 2019. So I already had that kind of, I knew how it was, but Netflix, 200 countries at once is a totally different type of ballgame. And as a fraud victim, you are getting a lot of different types of reactions when you go public compared to a lot of other crimes.

3:07So it's difficult, but it's worth it.

3:12Rebecca Lavoie:One of the things that's always bothered me about this kind of story is when you see people reacting negatively toward the victim, you know, and my response is always the reason there are victims is because these people are very good at what they're doing. Has that been something that you've been able to reassure people about or that you've experienced? Yeah, I think that's why it was so lovely to make this series is that it's being able to meet them as peers and being able now as almost like an expert in my own rights, you know, being able to tell them what I taught myself, like why I acted the way I did because of their actions or because of their tactics and that these tactics just works on humans.

3:52That's why it's so many similarities between the stories on how kind of they talk and how they act towards the victims. They know exactly what they're doing.

4:00Rebecca Lavoie:Let me just point out that Simon Leviev denies any wrongdoing in the tender swindler case but how did it feel to get support from people all over the world yeah yeah and i that is what i really want to highlight like kind of the support has been outweighed the negativity at like to touch a grand scale i think the tinder swindler changed the game in that sense that i think you could really see the devastation that it had on me and kind of the thought that i had afterwards where I just didn't want to live anymore. Because in a sense, I still loved him, you know? Or the person I thought that he was.

4:38Like, you know, everything's a lie. But then you still have this fairy tale that's going on on your phone, you know? Simon with like still the heart behind it, because I could never, like, I couldn't remove it. Because I still wanted him to be true, you know? And I think that is kind of the empowering thing now, is to take that on and give that torch to other victims, to be able to show that this is so much more than the money lost for these people.

5:04Rebecca Lavoie:What is the origin story of Love Con Revenge and how you became involved in the project? I think after the Tinder Swindler, I just had so many messages from all around the world and the devastation in those messages and the hopelessness. And I was the only one they could talk to felt, I don't know what to say. It just felt, I felt helpless. So when I was approached and I was like, well, this can be something, this type of thing, this victim led, let's get some revenge, justice, whatever you want to call it, because the Tinder's really did that for me. And I felt so empowered and it was healing.

5:42And I was like, if I can now be that voice for them and they can meet me as a peer instead of a journalist. And I don't mean it like that. but I wish I could have met myself, you know, the first time I was talking about this to someone, to journalists, because they can have sympathy and empathy, but still they are a bit like, but why did you, you know? Right. Well, to me, the victims don't need to talk or pretend like I get it. Every single individual I met in this show, you just have a special connection with them. It's so weird.

6:13Rebecca Lavoie:Well, you come across in the show as incredibly empathetic, but also incredibly tough. and you do some really, I think, frightening things that I'm not sure I would do. Tell me about your experience and how it prepared you to be on the show. God, as I have to say, like partnering up with Brianne, you know, and this show is like nothing you've ever seen before. Yes, it's kind of like catfish, but it's on speed and kind of devastation and consequences here. And kind of the justice we want to bring to them is real. And by that, we needed to be on the ground, you know, in each case. And be there and just see where the case took us, which was challenging to say the least, because how do you prove intent?

6:55How do you get the documentation or the evidence for that? And I was really on the force there about like messages. The messages here can prove intent if we can then find another victim where kind of the perpetrator said something different. You know, if the timeline isn't really adding up, we can show that they were lying to them. And that by then we can kind of prove that this was actual fraud. And we had to find the perpetrators, you know, so that's where we did stakeouts and we have car chases. And I have to say, like, I've been talking to Brianne and I was like, I'm scared, you know, I have never I'm from Norway, you know, she's the private investigator in the US.

7:36He's in the far left lane on one car behind him. Can you guys still see me? I don't have a visual on you, no. Yeah, he's moving really fast. You guys are going to have to hit the gas to catch up with us. Oh, don't. He's taking over there. I was sitting there and I was always thinking a car chase, for example. You have to be behind the car. I always thought that right behind the car. And Brianne was like, no, like if I'm straight behind the car all the time, in the end, you know, the one we're following will understand like, why is this car, you know, it never lets me go. So you had to be maybe a couple of cars behind.

8:14We were on the highway and like she was teaching me on like what to look out for, like to have one in like, you know, like look at the mirror, try to find the mirror. Like I am so in awe of her and her skill sets and trying, you know, to get the puzzles together here for the victims. Is the perpetrator still, are they having new victims? Where are they staying? Have they left the state? Because that matters a lot in these cases. If they've escaped kind of justice, it's much more difficult. So that was a big puzzle for us.

8:43Rebecca Lavoie:How did you and the producers decide which cases to pursue for the show? I'm sure there are plenty to choose from, right? Yeah, and I think that was really interesting about this show because it can't be an ordinary true crime story where it's already been done and dusted. It needed to be live. It needed to be something that we can investigate and actually help the victims with here and now. So as you can imagine, it's kind of narrows down the scope a lot because a lot of them would just have police who just drop the case and to get the police to open up a case again. It's not easy. So that was kind of limiting.

9:20But a lot of them contacted me where they kind of wanted, they actually just was writing off to the Tinder Swindler kind of wanting that help. And then it was more like, can we? Is there something we can actually go into because it's live? And then, of course, they had to be these in-person ones, which is as well limiting because the online scam world is much larger. You know, that's where the big money is. These in-person ones, they're evil.

9:50Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. One of the things that strikes me about the stories you selected is that it really is a broad swath of people. It's not the same kind of victim over and over again. It's not the same middle-aged white lady who had lots of money to begin with. You really talk to, like, this can happen to literally anybody, it seems. Yeah. And like kind of the why they're losing their money as well. I think it's so important to show that there are differences there, too. We have a lot of investments. That's where a lot of them are heading into. Because investments, you lose a lot more money because you actually have some money you can invest.

10:23And it's such a difference between, oh, I need help. Or, you know, I can't afford this. Can you help me here? And that is so important for me to kind of highlight that this comes in many different forms. And yes, anyone can be a target because you're vulnerable when you're looking for love. That is just how it needs to be.

10:42Rebecca Lavoie:How do you define a romance scammer? A romance scammer is someone that sets up a fake identity and story to get you to fall in love and trust them with the intention to take your money. So that is kind of the raw deal. The intention of the entire relationship, the entire contact is just to see ways to take advantage of you. And I think when it comes to a romance fraud as well, it's that mental abuse. And I call it abuse. And I think it's so important for us, especially with romance fraud, that that is what it is. So it's not only the money lost, but what they did to you as human beings. In Love Con Revenge, you team up with a private investigator, Brianne Joseph.

11:23Rebecca Lavoie:And she's obviously very fearless, has a lot of skills, but you bring skills too. Can you talk about how your skills complement each other? Oh, God. Yeah. I was like always really like since the Tinder spender, you know, this has become my job. And how many times does that happen after a true crime documentary? So what I understood is that knowledge is power. So I've done extensive kind of research and reading into what is a proper scam artist? What tactics do they use? And what makes it work on human beings? What is the invulnerable? Like, I think a lot of times because you feel it can't happen to you.

12:00You think you have an invisible shield or the notion that this only happens to old women. No, then it won't happen to me. So I'm out there, you know, doing talks, like trying to advise financial institutions and police, you know, to really understand what this crime truly is, to have that empathy when they meet them. So that kind of skill set. And I think being a peer, having lived experience has a lot of value. I think sometimes we look at fraud victims, yes, as stupid. so we don't look at them as experts. Like, why would they know anything? How can I advise someone not to be scammed when I was scammed myself?

12:36But kind of, but I think that knowledge and a lot of victims become investigators in themselves and have to teach themselves, become experts in their own rights to be able to understand what happened to you. So that has been so nice when I've been meeting with victims, when they say, I feel stupid. How could I? All of them told me that. Then I can look them dead in the eye and say, but you weren't stupid because of X, Y, and Z. This just works.

13:01Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. Can you talk about those two kinds of victimhood? Because it seems complicated because there's both the fraud aspect, the financial damage, but then there's also heartbreak involved. Doesn't that make it more complicated when it comes to saying this happened to me? Because you're also like hurting. You're hurting tremendously. That type of hurt. And I think because I felt that on my body, I know how painful it is. This isn't just a relationship gone wrong where you might look back and like, well, the good times were good and then it ended badly. This is a relationship that from the get go was set up to take your money.

13:38They've never loved you and you were running to them for protection and love, but you were running straight into danger instead. And I think that is the most hardest part to come to grips with. Because this has been a long term for a lot of them. Aaron was six years. So every time something happens, what do you do? Your girlfriend or boyfriend is the one that you run to for help. And every single time you're just being dragged further and further into desperation. So kind of that heartbreak is really difficult to try to get others to understand. Because you have been abused in the end as well.

14:15It makes it difficult because I had it, held it in for so long.

14:22Rebecca Lavoie:And I couldn't tell my parents. I didn't want my friends to think I was absolutely crazy for doing something so stupid. You need to stop saying that it's stupid. I know. We're doing a disservice towards ourselves when we're doing that. Because it's not true. A lot of the times I see that these relationships then, when you start to fight a bit back and like something isn't right here, they turn nasty on you. You know, there's a lot of guilt and shame that they're trying to put on you that you're not there for them. A lot of the same thing will happen to me. So that heartbreak of just having trusted someone that, you know, was never real.

14:59Rebecca Lavoie:Right. I was really surprised to learn that there's a problem with this kind of fraud in the U.S. when it comes to law enforcement in that it's considered a civil matter, not a criminal one to have money taken from you from your partner, even if it's under false pretenses. Like it's not considered criminal necessarily. That was that's complicated and that's really difficult, right? It is very complicated if you don't meet the right law enforcement. And I know it's different from state to state, but there are laws against fraud. That is just my opinion. I think it's an easy way for them to not take the report or don't take on the investigations because it's easier to say that this is just a civil dispute.

15:40But a lot of the times when they say that, it's just when someone comes and reported and they kind of use the language that I gave my money, it was a loan. And by those words, that is a civil dispute, but it's the intention behind it that a lot of these law enforcement don't get when it is coming quickly and, you know, give me a synopsis over it. So if they truly go into it and we see that in Lindsay's case that we meet with former DA now, Erin West, which is that like, this is a great case and she will file it under theft, under deception. So it's more that we don't have the proper training for law enforcement.

16:16So I don't blame them on the ground. How will they know if no one has told them? And kind of when it's not a priority either, you know, it's higher ups that tells them, you know, it's more of, you know, the violent crimes, you know. where you actually have murder and rapes that are being prioritized. So when we look at this as financial crime, victimless, not just really why they're not getting the funding or the training to be able to handle these cases.

16:45Rebecca Lavoie:Let's talk about some of the specifics of the cases you cover in Love Con Revenge. You introduce us to Todd, a.k.a. the selfie scammer. How did he prey on women and separate them from their money? But Todd is an interesting one because he actually had the property that he used to defraud. You know, a lot of times people can create fake scenarios, but he actually had Sanjara, a wellness center that he said he was going to set up. He was heavily into mental health, spirituality that talked to a lot of these women that he met. and they as well had the money that they just wanted to invest. And this wellness center was going to help people, mental health, make everything better for them.

17:29He had promo videos. He had a presence online where he was putting out that he was holding, you know, pitches to investors. So overall, if we went on his socials, everything looked amazing. And he's really good. He's really good at selling the dream.

17:46Rebecca Lavoie:I did wonder why someone with this$1.8 million property would even need to ask me for money. He told me that it's a startup and he just needs this help for finishing Tanjara. And being that mental health has always been an area close to my heart, it was just something that I really wanted to help with. So he'd been in the U.S. They're just jumping from either city to city or state to state and gets always driven out of the different cities. But it's so easy to just start up again. So that's how Todd was doing it. So he had everything set up the perfect way. But we had to kind of prove, did he really intend to ever open Sanjara?

18:31Right.

18:31Rebecca Lavoie:I mean, it seems like he wasn't just scamming women out of their money for personal benefit. He was also running a business that was a scam. and he was scamming people to help keep his scam business going. It was like a very complicated Ponzi type scheme, right? A Ponzi type scheme. And as well, and I think with a lot of these cases, he did defraud men too. It's just difficult to get them to speak up. And it's difficult when that was more purely investment fraud as well. But to keep the wheels running in this machinery that he had created, he was targeting everyone. But of course, when you bring in the love element, that is much more horrible for the people involved here.

19:09But I think that's where the Ponzi scheme for a lot of these Frosters are. They will defraud anyone when they start. So yes, it was a proper Ponzi scheme. And it was like the amount of women left in his tracks in these different cities was just horrible. And I don't know how many more. I promise you, even more people will come out. That is what's sad.

19:32Rebecca Lavoie:What was that moment like when you heard Todd on the audio tape referencing the Tinder Swindler. First of all, what a woman that got that recording. I am always loved when people take matters into their own hands. But when I heard that, I was astonished. Tinder Swindler. Have you seen that show? Okay, yeah, Netflix. Well, I watched the movie and I go, God, I can relate to this shit. But if I recall correctly, the Tinder Swindler, these guys duked them out of a lot of money. because, well, I'm the opposite. Okay, so I'm not the swindler. I'm just a guy doing the best I can and I've been supported by wonderful people.

20:13It's so typical of these individuals who have these narcissistic traits, I would say. I don't want to label anyone, but you have to have a certain type of feeling about yourself. It's almost like he was loving it and mentioning the Tinder swindler. Why? If you don't feel like him, if you're not a fraudster, why would you even come into that scenario, you know, of taking money from women? It was like I was sitting there like, you are a scammer. You're saying it straight out, actually, because that's what everyone else would say, too. It's a way of just making it seem more okay. Like I'm just being supported by nice people, you know, who are just my friends.