Love Con Revenge | Part 2

0:00Rebecca Lavoie:I'm Rebecca Lavoie and this is You Can't Make This Up.

0:14Rebecca Lavoie:You Can't Make This Up is the podcast where we uncover the true stories behind your favorite Netflix documentaries and films. On today's episode, we take a deeper dive into the Netflix series Love Con Revenge. But you know, deep down, something is wrong. You can feel it. In the end, you have to deal with the truth. You have to confront your nightmare. Today, we're talking to private investigator Brianne Joseph. After telling her story of fraud and heartbreak in the Tinder swindler, Cecilia Fjellhoy made it her mission to spread the word about romance cons. Now she's traveling across the U.S. helping others who've been taken in by conniving Casanovas.

0:57Rebecca Lavoie:With the help of private eye Brianne Joseph, the pair is tracking down romance scammers and exposing them. In part two of our look at the Netflix series Love, Con, Revenge, we talk to Brianne about the tradecraft of locating other con artists who've swindled their partners. She discusses the challenges of uncovering their web of deceit and bringing any measure of justice for victims duped by those who loved their money more than they loved them. It was all intentional to deceive Bridget to get her money. I have to say, it's evil. He knows so well what he's doing, too. You know, he's dragging an innocent family into this.

1:43Rebecca Lavoie:And I'm joined now by private investigator, Brianne Joseph. Brianne, welcome to You Can't Make This Up. Thank you. I appreciate the invitation. In Love Con Revenge, we follow Cecilia Fjellhoy, who was one of the victims in the Tinder Swindler, as she tells the stories of other victims in romance scams and tries to get them some measure of justice. But she needs people who know the ropes in these kinds of investigations. And that's where you come in. So how did you get connected with Cecilia? Yeah, well, the team reached out to me and they told me that they thought I would be a good fit for a new series that they were in the process of creating.

2:21And they basically just set up a Skype with Cecilia and I for us to meet, get to know each other. The chemistry was undeniable. And we've just been kind of joined by the hip ever since. Did you watch a Tinder swindler? I did. I did. And I was so proud of Cecilia for her bravery and that she had such a strong story. And exactly when the door closes, he just takes me around the waist and he just looks at me and he just draws me in and he just gives me this kiss. And I was like, oh, shit, you know, the kind of butterflies. It was passionate and was just the perfect first kiss that you could have, you know.

2:56Rebecca Lavoie:Did you have other hot takes about some of the ways that people were scammed in that case? Well, it was just interesting how bold that guy was. He wanted me to pawn my car. He wanted me to sell my house. That's when I get my idea. I was going to swindle the Dinler Swindler. And to this day, he is still really arrogant and bold and he has absolutely no remorse. And that just really, it blows my mind, but it doesn't because that's just characteristic of these type of people anyway. Yeah. I mean, the audience, I think, really gets a sense of Cecilia, the kind of person she is. And I've been lucky enough to talk to her, so I have a sense of the kind of person she is.

3:43Rebecca Lavoie:But what were your impressions of her as you first started working together? Cecilia is, for one, a very compassionate individual. She seems very selfless. And she's so empowered right now to help other people. She's turned her pain into power. And she's very adamant about helping others do the same thing. And I find that very admirable. So you're a private investigator. I'm curious, how did you find yourself in this line of work? And what's your background? Yeah, I have been a licensed private investigator in the state of Louisiana for about 15 years. I'm the owner of Sly Fox Investigations, you know, Sly being indicative of my need to be sneaky, you know, Fox being a female.

4:31But my agency specializes in surveillance and research and background checks and things like that, different types of cases. When I was younger, I didn't grow up thinking I wanted to be a private investigator, but I was always very inquisitive and I was always very detail oriented. So I'm not really surprised that that's where I ended up as a profession. but the way that I got into it, I actually was picking up like a relative for lunch who happened to work at a detective agency and the owner was trying to like get some information over the phone from someone who's having difficulty for whatever reason.

5:09And jokingly, I kind of said, you know, hey, why don't you let me try to get it? And long story short, I ended up getting information. Apparently the person on the other end was, it felt more comfortable getting it, giving it to a woman than a man because he was a guy. And I just learned the ropes at that point, told him to teach me more. He did. I got really good at it and just decided to start my own thing and introduce more women to the industry. You know, when I started, private investigation is a largely male-dominated industry. When I started, there were like maybe 60 ,000 PIs in the U.S.

5:41Only 15 % were women and only like 3 % were African-American women. So there just weren't a lot of women in the industry. So I definitely started it with an intention to attract more women to the field as well.

5:56Rebecca Lavoie:I love the sort of imagery that you put out about your agency. I think when people think of private investigators, they often think of, you know, a sloppy desk or a frosted door, like a guy in a coat, just sort of. But you have on your Instagram, especially this very forward looking, very female, very slick imagery. Can you talk about that? How did you develop that? And does it get you clients? Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting, you know, by private investigation being a male dominated industry. When I first started, I tried to fit in with that. I tried to fit in with the ways that they marketed.

6:34And what I mean is that the older PIs, you know, when I first started, you weren't supposed to be seen. You know, private investigators are not supposed to be seen. Nobody's supposed to to see you. So you kind of had to stay in the shadows a little bit. That was their way of doing it. And I did that, but that didn't work for me because I wasn't the norm. And I quickly realized, you know, nobody's going to buy anything from me if they don't see, if they don't know me. So I decided to embrace who I was, embrace what was different about me, really, and push that forward and make myself stand out, which definitely worked to my advantage.

7:11I played into who I was authentically. And that was attractive to a lot of people. And on top of that, I knew my shit. You know, I know what I'm doing. I'm very good at what I do. I have no problem telling people about the successes that I've had because I am that good. And literally, my agency is the only agency in the entire state of Louisiana that's been honored by the Louisiana State Senate for excellence. So, you know, that's something I'm very proud of. It took a long time to build that, just always striving for excellence in what I do and just being passionate about the industry and comfortable with who I am and just not being afraid to be myself.

7:50Rebecca Lavoie:Do you think that people have a misconception about the job generally? I mean, I know that you do surveillance because that's your specialty, but stakeouts and surveillance is sort of what we think of. But there's also records and research and, you know, getting into archives of stuff and, you know, looking things up and serving processes. I mean, is that a part of your life as well? Yeah, it absolutely is. You know, we do a lot. It's not just surveillance, you know, all of the things that you mentioned, you know, and witness interviews and just a whole lot of different things. It's funny because there is a misconception out there about private investigators.

8:28You know, some people tend to think we can break the law and just get anything. You know, they think we have access to anything we want to have access to. And, you know, that's just not the case. We do have access to some proprietary databases and information that the public is not privy to. But we can't break the law for people. We do have to operate under the same guidelines. So that's definitely something people always call and just want, you know, these crazy things that we just can't do. Ma 'am, we just can't do it. You know, this is just a lot of crazy stuff.

8:59Rebecca Lavoie:So I'm curious about, you know, what you did here in this project, exposing romance fraudsters. How different is that from something like, say, you're hired to prove a spouse is being unfaithful? Like, is this a very, very different kind of work than you've done before? Or have you done stuff like this before? No, we've definitely done cases like this. This was not originally the majority of the cases that we were working, but we have worked quite a few of those cases. You know, and as far as the difference between the two, the mythology of it is very similar. It's approached the same from an investigative standpoint as far as collecting the evidence.

9:41The way that we collect the evidence is pretty much the same throughout the cases. But I think there's just an element of being more cautious with the love con type cases simply because the people that we're investigating are just criminals. You know, they it's just a different element. And, you know, criminals typically don't want to be caught. So there's an element of caution that we have to have in the way that we approach these cases. Whereas if you have a cheating spouse, they're not necessarily criminals, but they're, you know, still a piece of dirt. It's just on another level. You know what I mean?

10:23It's just yeah. So there is a difference between the two.

10:26Rebecca Lavoie:So you just said that criminals don't want to be caught. And I found myself wondering as I was watching this, this particular kind of criminal, these these love con perpetrators. I get the sense that they don't think they will be caught. Is that the case? Yeah, I think these criminals, they definitely have this air of superiority of it. They think that they've gotten away with it for so long that they will continue to get away with it. There's just so many loopholes that they can get through where they can evade and just be so elusive with law enforcement that they get away with it. And and that's really why we created this series.

11:07For one, let the general public know, hey, look, there are others like you. You're not alone. You can share your story. You're not a doormat. You know, you can protect yourself. But it was also to let the criminals know there are real life consequences for this. Yeah. You know, you may not get away with this if you keep doing this and you could possibly at the very least be exposed for it. So is it worth it? You know, think about it. You know, do you really want to continue down this path? So, you know, hopefully those are the messages that the series gave out.

11:42Rebecca Lavoie:One of the things that we learn is that even when there's pretty clear evidence of a financial fraud or someone pretending to be somebody else, the laws in the U.S. lean toward this kind of thing being considered a civil matter, not a criminal matter. So what kinds of things are you trying to obtain to cross that line for law enforcement? Yeah, I think that's the biggest problem and the biggest challenge that we have with this type of romance fraud. But law enforcement historically definitely would consider this a civil situation. They believe that it's perhaps just a woman scorned. You know, she's just mad that the relationship ended and she's trying to get revenge on him.

12:25And so they dismiss it very, very quickly. And a lot of times they won't even hear the case. They'll just dismiss it. So, you know, law enforcement with that attitude about it, they're not helpful at all. And, you know, that in turn would mean that they're not going to pursue the evidence that's necessary to properly prosecute these people. So when we come in, we find that to be successful in presenting this to the police, that there's strength in numbers, you know, and that's actually one of the goals that we have when we when we work these cases. You know, we try to find witnesses. We try to find other people who have been scammed by this same person to show that, hey, this guy is a habitual scammer.

13:09This is not just a one time occurrence.

13:11Rebecca Lavoie:Right. You know, and so I think that definitely helps push the matter forward for the victims. Do you think there's a level of victim blaming sometimes with law enforcement where they're like, well, you were the one who stayed in this relationship, even when he started asking you for money? Like, is that part of the conversation where, you know, no one says, you know, you are the one who asked to get mugged? That's like this. This crime is very particular in that. I think people don't realize that the people who are doing it are very good at it and it's not the victim's fault. Right. Yeah. No, absolutely.

13:42There's definitely an element of victim blaming with these cases. And like you said, they don't do that with other types of crime. And it's frustrating, you know, to blame a victim who has just had a tremendous loss in many ways, not just financially, you know, emotionally, it's devastating. And to be told it's your fault, it's just, you know, it's a ridiculous accusation and it's not fair. And, you know, we that's why we work so hard to show that, hey, you're pointing the finger at the wrong person. Yeah. You should be asking, why is this person trying to swindle someone? Why are they stealing?

14:20We need to point the finger at the criminal, not the victim.

14:23Rebecca Lavoie:Yeah. It seems a big part of the luck of the draw for you as well is which cop you get on the phone. Right. Because you can have a squad of detectives and one of them might be more likely to take this seriously. Is that the case? Yes. And that's unfortunate because you we would like to think that when you approach law enforcement or just any precinct or anywhere you go for this, that they all would be on the same page with something like this and that they would immediately view this as a crime worthy of attention. And it's unfortunate that many of them don't. And I think you're right. It really just depends on who you get that day.

15:00And that's unfortunate.

15:08Rebecca Lavoie:Let's talk about some of the cases in the series. Todd, we learn, wasn't just seducing women for their money. It was just one component of this larger business swindle, where he's also conning so-called investors, lenders for the wellness center. I found myself wondering, is that if you're the kind of person who can do a romance con, might you also be the kind of person doing all kinds of cons? Because that's not the only time we see that in the series. No, I think you're right. These types of people, especially the ones that are featured on the show, they're not regular citizens. You know what I mean?

15:41They're master manipulators. These people are career criminals, you know. And Todd in particular, he had the gift of gab. You know, as many of the victims said, you know, he was just flattering them left and right. You're so beautiful. You are hilarious.

16:01Rebecca Lavoie:Good morning. Well, good morning. You know, I'm drinking coffee. Thank you, my friend. Good night, text. Hey, are you okay? Maybe you went to bed early. I was excited. I was getting those messages all throughout the day. What do you mean no more selfies? That'd be like the sun's not coming up tomorrow. That made me feel good. He just knew what to say. He was charismatic. And he knew that. And he knew how to prey on vulnerable women. and he was very good at it. And I think that that may have limited itself to other crimes. I mean, I don't know if he has been involved in other things, but I think it's definitely possible.

16:44Rebecca Lavoie:In his case and in others, we learn that there are many other victims who fell prey to the same kind of thing. Is that the typical playbook of a romance fraudster that they do this again and again and again and leave a trail of victims in their wake? Absolutely. And that was definitely characteristic throughout all the different stories. It wasn't just one, you know, cursing, you know, necessarily. It's easy to get away with. And what's interesting is that we had all of these stories in different cities, but it's like they all learned from the same playbook. You know, it's like they were it's just amazes me how the way that they manipulated and the ways that they manipulated were just so very similar in their techniques and their tactics.

17:31So, you know, it was very similar all across the board.

17:35Rebecca Lavoie:There's the story of Bridget and her boyfriend, Ricky. He's a veteran who says he's sending money to the family of a buddy who died saving him during the war. And then you pull the strings and that whole story falls apart. So how did you dismantle the lies this guy was telling? Oh, God, Ricky, he has got to be the lowest, one of the lowest forms of scum on this earth. Like, I cannot imagine just someone fabricating a story like that about someone who literally lost their life in combat. and you would go so far as to get this person's likeness tattooed on your arm to make your story that much more believable.

18:21And then on top of that, lie to your girlfriend to say you feel so terrible that he gave his life for you, that you need to send money to a family that doesn't exist. It's mind blowing the extent that these people will go to, to get what they want and to be believable, which is which is why I say they're master manipulators. This is not everyday people. These people are literally crazy. Yeah. And one of the main things or one of the most important things that we've had to do with that case was get to the bottom of it. We had to talk to the family. Right. You know, which is exactly what I did to just understand if what Ricky said was true.

19:00And And as shown on the show, I was shocked to hear that none of it was true. You know, Ricky didn't die for that guy. He didn't have kids that he was sending money to. It was all a lie. And so it's just disgusting and it's infuriating because it's like, how could you stoop that low? Yeah.

19:22Rebecca Lavoie:Do you see his family, Clarence's family, the guy who Ricky had tattooed on his arm? They aren't necessarily direct victims of the con, but their relative, their loved one, is being used to perpetrate a con. Do you see them as victims as well? I absolutely see them as victims as well. You know, it's a trickle-down effect. It doesn't just affect the person that they're intending, but the mother and the daughter are definitely affected. They're heartbroken that the memory of their son was made to be garbage to someone. He also claimed that he was sending money to Clarence's family. No. If I'm not mistaken, it was to Clarence's kids?

20:08Clarence doesn't have any kids. No kids at all. You know, and it's just like with the other story with Dorian and Shariza. You know, the children were affected. You know, the died Dorian gave these kids his last name. You know, the heartbreak that these girls had to endure from someone doing that to them, it definitely was a trickle down effect in that regard as well.

20:30Rebecca Lavoie:One of the most dramatic scenes is this confrontation with Ricky in South Boston. You say that confrontation isn't usually part of a privatized job. What was it like watching that all unfold? I felt it was an important and an empowering moment for Bridget. You're not Ricky? No. Hi, Ricky.

20:55Rebecca Lavoie:You guys can get the cameras away from me. No, what happened to the money? You guys can get away from me. No, what happened to the money? Seriously. What happened to the money? You stole out of the ATM. I caught you on video. You think it's funny? Yeah, I do. You know, confrontation, it's not just about yelling and screaming and saying your point. It's not about that for us. number one, it has to be a request that the victim makes. It's not something that we push. There has to be a reason behind it. And the reason has to bring them some type of clarity or closure. And Bridget wanted to face him because for a while she had been afraid of him to a certain extent.