Dr. John Delony: The Mental Health Crisis Silently Destroying Entrepreneurs | Mental Wealth Series | E2

23:13Hala Taha:Yeah, fam, I'm all about doing health resets. I'm on a health kick this year. I tried juice cleanses, cutting sugar completely, even intermittent fasting. but they didn't stick for me because they were just too hard to follow, too strict. And so I was on the hunt of a way to lose five pounds transparently. That's how I came across Prolon. So me and my boyfriend have been together for about a year and we gained some weight over the holidays. We're just like in love and eating too much and going out to eat and just like in this puppy love stage where we're gaining some weight and we both wanted to lose weight.

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24:18Hala Taha:Are you ready to lose five pounds and for your own reset? For a limited time, Prolon is offering young and profiting listeners 15 % off site-wide plus a$40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their five-day program. Just visit prolonlife.com slash profiting. That's P-R-O-L-O-N-L-I-F dot com slash profiting to claim your 15 % discount and your bonus gift. That's prolonlife.com slash profiting. Prolonlife.com slash profiting. So I recently spoke with Dr. Caroline Leaf. Yeah, she's a good buddy. I love her. Yeah, she's great. She's way, way, way smarter than me. Yeah. She was talking about how it's really dangerous to identify yourself with these mental health conditions.

25:01Hala Taha:So like, I have anxiety, I have ADHD, and she thinks it's just a really dangerous trend that people are kind of latching on to these identities. And you also say something similar in your book. So talk to us about why it's not that healthy to kind of identify with certain disorders and maybe how that can make us more addicted to these disorders in itself. Yeah, I think it's a it's a again, I keep talking about this, the curses of our time, but the curse. Well, that's one of the chief curses of our time is that we're identified with our identity becomes these labels that we're given. You have anxiety.

25:41You have depression. you are depressed. It becomes the way we enter into every room and it becomes the lens by which we view the world and we're told we're broken. And so if your house is on fire and your smoke detector is going off, nobody would say your house is broken, right? No one would say that. They would say your house is working perfectly. It's on fire. And so I think it's just changing the language. I love that there's an old psychiatrist he's passed away many years ago, but Dr. Glasser, William Glasser said, he wouldn't let his patients say, I have anxiety or I am anxious. He would make them say, I am anxieting or I'm depressing.

26:25I'm compulsioning, right? My body is doing these things in an effort to take care of me. Let's get to the bottom of why my body thinks this environment I'm in isn't safe. This relationship I'm in isn't safe. This business I'm running isn't going to hold water, right? that's a much healthier way to view the world instead of viewing ourselves with these labels that are the challenges we have. It's just a, it's a silly way to do life. But, but also the other side of it is none of us, you, you and me are not allowed to go to a party. And when someone says, Hey, how's it going? We're not allowed to say, you know what?

27:02Things are actually going really good. Our, my romantic life is going well. My kids are healthy. My job's doing great. because then we walk away and people go, ugh, the only way we're allowed to enter a room is to say, well, you know, times are tough or do you see the tweets or you know what's happening with, AI is going to take my business. So we're really fighting. We're not allowed to be people of peace or people of joy or people of optimism. We have to be people of pessimism and sarcasm. And that's just, that's the air we all breathe. And so we have to, we are stamped with labels that tell us what's wrong with us.

27:39I just reject that wholeheartedly.

27:41Hala Taha:Yeah, I totally agree. I definitely want to get into you with that. But I do want to ask you about medication because you brought it up earlier. And I had an ex-boyfriend that was on antidepressants for like 14 years. I didn't find out about it until like, you know, six months into the relationship. He's like addicted to these antidepressants. He was a great guy, but he couldn't get off them. And when I asked him why he got on these antidepressants to begin with, it all happened because he didn't get a promotion once. This guy's like a brilliant guy, top executive at like a Fortune 50 company.

28:16Hala Taha:And it's because one time, 14 years ago, when he first started his career, he didn't get a promotion. He was upset about it. And then his doctor put him on antidepressants. And now he's been stuck on them. And so I always felt so sad for him because that just feels like everybody faces adversity. You've got to figure out how to get over it, you know, and build that like mental resilience because you can't always be perfect. And now he's just addicted to this medication and can't get off it. So talk to us about how you feel about medication. And have you heard similar stories like this? Sure. So I've got a pretty nuanced view of it.

28:53I'll talk globally and then we'll get really specific. We've created the loneliest generation in human history ever. and we've also pathologized, we've made wrong or a problem to solve any uncomfortable feeling or any quote unquote bad feeling. And so I often would have students come in to my office and say, I'm depressed. My dad just walked out on my mom and has a whole other life he's had. And I would say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe you're struggling with depression right now, But what you just described to me is sadness. You're sad. We have no permission to be sad. We have no permission for grief.

29:37And the human biological being is not designed to experience grief by itself. That's why every major religion for all of human history has gatherings that take place. That's why they have this thing called confession in some shape or more fashion. It's been co-opted into tell us the bad thing you did. That's not the origin of confession. And the origin of confession is, oh man, you too. Like, here's what happened. And that's all gone. And so when your friend found himself without the promotion, if you're a crushing, killing an executive, you're not allowed to grieve. You're not allowed to say out loud, I really wanted this thing and it didn't happen.

30:16You're not allowed to say, I went all in and at this particular moment, I wasn't good enough. Or I went all in and they picked somebody else. And so we don't have like when that happens, you're supposed to be sad. You're supposed to not want to get out of bed for a few days. You're supposed to just want to go eat junk food like those things in and of itself are part of the human experience. And so, yes, it's easy to run to a doctor. You crank off a series of symptoms and they'll write you a script and you head out the door and they get your copay. And then they bill your insurance for as much as they can get.

30:53and your insurance fights them for all that. And in the meantime, you are duct taping over that uncomfortable feeling. And I think that's been a great tragedy. On the other side, I ignored anxiety for so long that my alarm system was dysregulated. It didn't work anymore. It was going off all the time. And so I'm also really open that anxiety medication did not cure my anxiety. It did, however, turn the alarms down enough so that I could go talk to a professional, so that I could go sit with a group of guys who are also struggling and say, hey guys, me too. And so I am a big believer in the right medication for the right moment.

31:40And I also think that Instagram, all the, like, man, how often do we hear, that guy's a narcissist. No, that guy's an idiot. He's a jerk, right? He's a complete and total, like, just scumbag. We've normalized these diagnostics as insults or discomfort as I've got depression or, man, I'm really worried about the economy, so I have anxiety. And so we just use those words all the time. If you have major depressive disorder, medication will save your life. If you are having a really ugly experience, a sad grieving moment, if a loved one passes away, if your loved one cheats on you and leaves you, if you get passed over for something that was going to change your life professionally, if you're an entrepreneur and your business gets eaten up by AI or your neighbor's business or whatever the thing is, I really want people to sit, A, with a community.

32:41And sometimes in these days, that's one other person or two other people. And then just give yourself permission to grieve and be sad for a while. And then if you're unable to do the next right thing, then medication can play an important role. But it in and of itself doesn't, quote unquote, solve the problem. And I think that's the big thing. It helps to be a great bridge to get you from here to there. And so, man, if somebody needs anxiety medication for a season, that's awesome. But the research says that stuff works if you do that and you do these other things. And we have to be honest about exercise is really powerful.

33:20Sunlight and community and friends and laughter are really powerful. Journaling is incredibly powerful. Like these things that are not quick fixes, but do have life altering benefits to them. um i i much rather see somebody start there especially if they're under the care of a good counselor a good therapist who's walking alongside you there's a whole other side to this that same um medicalization of every uncomfortable feeling especially in the entrepreneur space is how we've landed with the madhouse amounts of entrepreneurs who are taking Adderall, Ritalin, right? That are finding themselves at capacity biologically.

34:08Like you got to sleep, you got to go hang out with people. You can't work on your business 24, seven, 365 for 14 years, your body will say I quit. And so when you start taking amphetamines to amp you up and you're taking speed all day just to get through the next thing, it will help you. No question about it. And it will cost you everything on the backend. And so if you spend a lot of time around folks who struggle with various forms of addiction, whether it's alcohol or Adderall or sex, whatever it is, the dirty secret is those things really work. They're amazing until they take everything from you.

34:41And so it's being able to forego the short-term benefit of, yeah, it really helps. I got to do this thing and I get to do this thing with, hey, that's going to cost you everything in the end. And so let's get to the bottom of why you're struggling. get to the bottom of capacity and let's build a life over the next 10 or 20 or 30 years that's sustainable.

35:00Hala Taha:Yeah. So let's dig deeper on that. I know you talk about becoming a safe person, living a peaceful life. I'm assuming that's what you're talking about when you're saying like, hey, like you can't just be like work, work, work, work, work. You also have to build in some balance. Can you talk to us about what it means to be a safe person in that regard? I guess the best example I can give you is just a personal one from my life. My show took off. So you have to understand, like for 20 years, I was in education and universities. I was a nerd. And so suddenly I didn't have social media or anything when I started doing this.

35:33And then all of a sudden it took off out from under me, right? In this wild way. And suddenly I'm all over the place. My big dirty secret after having a top five mental health and wellness show was, and it was mostly on parenting and relationships is my own little daughter wouldn't hug me. She wouldn't be in my presence. I made her unsafe. I made her feel unsafe. And I remember going in to hug my daughter when she was probably five or six and she was like, no, she ran off. And I just started crying. I was sitting at the kitchen table and my wife who was Dr. Deloney long before me, she's way smarter than me.

36:08She said, have you ever considered that her little tiny body, her tiny little five or six-year-old body has identified you as not safe. And I got pretty upset and I said, I don't yell, I don't hit anybody, I don't swear in front of these kids, like I'm a good dad. And she goes, no, no, no, no, you're the best dad I've ever seen. And you have a nuclear reactor in your chest and we can all feel it. And that was what ultimately drove me to see a therapist here in Nashville. And I sat down on her couch and I was like, all right, here we go. And it was six or seven months of really gnarly work. And I ended up telling my wife stuff that happened to me when I was a kid that I had never told a single soul on the planet.

36:51And I'll never forget months after that, wrestling around with my son and my daughter came and she's always the protector. She'll come and just swing in like a hurricane. She's awesome. But I remember the words coming out of my mouth, Josephine, get off me. And then I stopped for a second

37:08Hala Taha:because I'd never said that sentence before. And I was like, no, no, no, don't get off. don't get off let's just keep but now i can't keep her off of me i'm a human jungle gym for her and so what i had identified in her as she won't she can't she doesn't i realized dude it was me and what i want all entrepreneurs to know if you will switch your metric from i gotta crush crush crush every second of every minute of every day to i will become the most sturdy peaceful presence in every room I walk into, which means my personal finances are okay. My personal health is okay. My personal relationships are okay.

37:46My spiritual life, whatever that looks like is okay. Your ability to work, your ability to earn will be so much greater than being a kinetic, always on the go presence. And so, yeah, for me, it is, I am solving for peace. People gave me such grief online when I paid off my mortgage, that was at 2.7%. And mathematically, they were right. I could have made 5 % in a high yield savings account. But very few people know what it's like to put your head on your pillow and know that nobody can take your house away from you. And that extra edge of peace sends me into the next business meeting. And the guy says, who I'm negotiating with says, I want this.

38:30And I can smile and go, I don't need that because I don't have a house payment. And then they go, all right, we'll make this deal. It changes every fiber of your being. So yeah, for me and my family, I don't solve for ROI anymore. I solve for peace and I solve for, and I work more now than I have ever worked ever. And I'm busier than I've ever been. But the return on that is infinitely greater.

38:55Hala Taha:Is getting to this piece related to your six daily choices? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really taking all the neuroscience and all the nerd stuff and then my own experience, both coaching. I mean, walking alongside people for two decades and my own experience and saying, if I could distill this all down to make it very simple, what are the six places I would start to build a non-anxious life? Yeah. Let's go through them quick fire style. But first, talk to us about like the biology of your body. when you're a safe person and a peaceful person and a non-anxious person versus when you're an anxious person.

39:29Hala Taha:And then we'll go through the sex. Yeah. I mean, the biology is if you are constantly cranking through adrenaline all day, every day, right. And we don't have to get too nerdy, but if you are constantly in fight or flight onto the next deal, onto the next thing, got to get up, crush it, go. Your body can do that for a while. Those chemicals were designed for very tiny short bursts to keep you from not dying. They were not designed to keep you alive. Here's the best example I can give you. If you pour Drano down your sink because there's a clog, if you do that once every four or five years, it'll eat that clog and it will open up your drain.

40:07If you wake up every day and just dump Drano down your drain, it will eat through all of your pipes in your house. And so it's not designed to be the lifeblood that flows through your plumbing system all the time. And so same with these stress hormones. They're not designed to be your operating strategy. And then when you run out of those, when you move on to four energy drinks a day and Adderall and maybe a little cocaine at night, like when you start buzzing through all these things to keep you going, going, going, the crash just gets bigger and bigger. And I promise everyone listening that crash will come.

40:41Hala Taha:Okay. So we want to avoid the crash. We want to live by your six daily choices. So I'm going to rattle each one off and then you give me like a 30 second summary and then we'll do like follow ups on specific ones. So let's do choose reality. Yeah. I mean, essentially choosing reality. Our whole world is based on avoiding reality. Like I'll pay that off later. Our marriage is fine. That's just how teenagers are. I can eat this now and it'll be fine. I don't have to exercise. I'll just take this pill. Like everything is about avoiding reality. The problem is your body is always solving for reality.

41:17Your body knows that you're lonely and it would be failing you if it let you sleep all night, knowing you don't have anyone to call in the middle of the night. If you need something, your body would be failing you. If your romantic partner walked to the front door, your body knows y 'all are 6 ,000 miles apart from each other. Even though you're both sitting on the same couch, you're just both scrolling Instagram on your own devices, right? Your body would be failing you if you owe money to investors and you owe money to a mortgage and you owe money on a depreciating asset, which is the stupidest thing you can borrow money on, which is a car.

41:49It would be failing you if it let you sleep all night, knowing that one wrong turn in the economy and they take your house, they take your job, they take your food. Your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night. And so when I say choose reality, there's something powerful and harrowing for most people to pull out a yellow pad, not an Excel sheet, pull out a yellow pad and write down, who do I owe money to? What is the state of my romantic relationships? Write down two, three, five, seven friends that I could call at 2 a.m. that would show up at my house and say, I got you. If you don't have that, then that's where you're going to start.

42:25You've got to choose reality with how safe is your body.

42:30Hala Taha:So good. Okay, choose connection. Yeah, it goes back to, we've just created the loneliest generation ever. And I just said, I mean, your body would be failing you. Think back to 10 ,000 years ago, if you woke up on the plains of Kansas and your tribe had left you and you're just all by yourself, you're gonna die. You're gonna get eaten by something. You'll die of exposure, you'll die of starvation or whatever. And so we've got built in biological mechanisms designed to keep us together. And we have outsourced all of those to these digital boxes. And so we are, we have like two mile long text threads from old high school friends that are mostly emojis and funny memes.

43:10And we have a whole bunch of networks and we have Zoom conferences with our mastermind groups, right? We like, whether we want to believe it or not, I had a great conversation last night. Great conversation with Chad GBT on, I was trying to work through two different therapeutic modalities. And I kept thinking I was onto something, Chad GBT and I had a great conversation. The problem is my body knows that's not connection. That's just transferring information. And so communication is not connection. There's gotta be in person. I know that person. I'm seen by that person. That person knows all my warts and they're gonna still love me anyway.

43:51And then we can go exhale. and now I'm going to go do life well, like rambunctiously, right? Only then can I do that. But if you are lonely, if you don't have four or five people, two or three people you can call, your body's going to sound every alarm it has because you're not safe.

44:09Hala Taha:Yeah, that is such a huge problem, I feel like for our world right now. It feels like it's getting better. Like COVID times was worse. Like it feels like it's getting better, I have to say, but. There is a beautiful rejection happening where more my son is 15 and i'm watching his friends like walk they walk into our house and people say i'm a luddite and that's fine like i'm gonna live in a cave but they walk into the house and um they all drop their phones in a basket and like that's just one of the rules of our house is i don't give like teenagers i want them to hang out with each other and it is our house has almost become a drug for young people they'll all pile into the house drop their phones and then they go do silly, ridiculous teenager things.

44:54And I don't like all the things they're doing, but they're having human experiences and they're literally their body craves it. And so I get texts and phone calls from parents saying, thank you for doing that, for holding the line on those phones. So it's, it's happening, but I think it's because it just feels better to be with somebody than to be scrolling and have all these, these, uh, what I would call pseudo relationships, um, these digital relationships.

45:19Hala Taha:Yeah. Okay, next one. Choose freedom. Yeah, that goes back to asking yourself the hard question, who owns you? And I don't care who you are or how sophisticated your math is. If you owe somebody money, especially a bank or an investor, they decide what you're going to do tomorrow, not you. If you don't owe anybody anything, then you can walk away from an abusive relationship. You could walk away from a scumbag who's yelling in your face or screaming at you. You can move to go help an aging or ailing sick parent. But if you owe somebody, they decide what you're going to do tomorrow, not you. And we don't have a psychology for that in our country.

46:03It just seems madness to think that way. And that's where like for me and my house, we're going to solve for peace and we're going to solve for freedom. I don't, I want to be owned by as few people as possible. um and then they're also additionally to that choose freedom um and we can kind of nerd out in the book a little bit but clutter we're not designed for all of the crap we have it's just it's we're not designed for we're not designed for all the noise that we have um and there's just some very clear we have so much stuff so much information so much data data is the new is a new xanax right like i just need to go have another cup of coffee i just need to look at the numbers and get some more to, it's madness.

46:43It's madness. And so choosing freedom is about unhooking from all these other voices that are telling you what you have to be doing and then say, as for me and as for my house, we're going to decide what the next step is. And the only way you can do that is the hard, ugly work of choosing freedom.

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51:04I mean, the original way I stumbled into Dave was years ago. I didn't know who he was. I mean, I knew he was just a guy that sold books and had a radio show, but I got sick of all these different people calling me every day saying, you owe me. You owe me. You owe me. And I got sick of my wife and I made a great salary. She was a, like a tenure track research professor. I was a senior leader at a university. We made a more money than our parents could have fathomed and we couldn't breathe, couldn't breathe. And so I came to him out of, out of a series of desperation. And, um, then as I got into the biology of how anxiety works, it's like, oh yeah, your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night um if you're not financially independent if you're not on your own and that may here's what here's the reality of that we don't talk about this enough i was the dean of students at a law school and the truck i drove was three thousand dollars my colleagues laughed at me my students would laugh at me and it was laughable the car i drove was ridiculous my wife was a um fancy pants nationally renowned researcher in her little nerd segment that she studied and she drove a used Corolla.

52:17Like we lived in a tiny, tiny house. I remember our mortgage person was one of the woman who did our mortgage at the bank was one of my wife's college roommates. And she laughed and she's like, what are y 'all doing? And I was like, Hey, I would rather live in a much smaller house in this side of town and get this stupid thing paid off than have this bank always owe me, own me just for the sake of having a spare bedroom that very few people ever wandered into. right it was just a trade i made and then we had to go to the park sometimes and instead of having our own park in our backyard that we couldn't afford but and by the way then we ran into other people and then we met their dogs and then we ended up with dinner partners and we ended up having a whole richer life because of that um but we've just created our own cruise ship inside of our own little encapsulated life and um we can't afford it and our bodies are screaming at us 24-7, 365.

53:12And so, yeah, I mean, it's not pretty. It took 15 years for us to get there, by the way. It didn't happen overnight. But it was just chipping away at it and chipping away at it and chipping away at it. And I tell you what, man, I struggled to get to 10 o 'clock before I fall asleep most days. So it's just after being on Ambien for years. And so it's just a, it's a, it's a, it's a blessing.

53:35Hala Taha:Yeah. And this, this ties into choosing health. we've just gotten so stupid like we're just dumb um and i say that like i'm this is the pot talking to the kettle here if you don't sleep and you're not a good it's it's we treat our cars better than our bodies we do we change the oil we get the cars washed and clean we vacuum them out we take care of them we just don't take care of our bodies very well and then we um and by the way i struggle i've struggled with disorder eating my whole life with body dysmorphia i go the other way i work out too much. I'm too restrictive with what I eat. So it's not even about obesity.

54:12It's just about this idea that we can just ignore our bodies one way or the other, and that still accomplish what we want to accomplish, be the husbands and wives and fathers and community members and citizens that we need to be. And we can't, you can't get mad at your car for breaking down if you don't take care of it. And the same thing applies to our bodies. And so probably the most common questions I get on my show revolve around sexual dysfunction, revolve around young men and ED, young men and pornography addiction, young men and social media addiction, young men and just rage and anger.

54:51And we live in a little sliver of history where there's doctors that'll talk to you. You can go see somebody. It's just, it's the new courage is choosing health, choosing peace and saying, okay, I'm in a lot of pain or my body's not working like I wanted to, or like it should be at this age, I'm going to go talk to somebody and that appointment will be awkward. My wife always rolls her eyes and she's like, you don't know awkward appointments, John, but those appointments are going to be awkward. And I'm going to go choose hell on the other side of that so that I can show up for who I want to be in my life and in my business.

55:22Hala Taha:Yeah. I'm going to ask this question because I don't think it will fit naturally anywhere else. But I know that you often talk about sex shaming and people not really being able to talk about sex and how it's ruining relationships and things like that. Talk to us about, you know, what's going on there. I'm wrestling with a hypothesis. Is it okay if I just throw it out here? Yeah, yeah. I think we overuse the word need a lot when it comes to relationships. And when I say to my wife, I need this, I need this. What I'm doing is I've got a cinder block that I'm holding and I'm handing it to her and say, it's your responsibility to make me feel X, Y, or Z with whatever that is.

56:08The truth underneath that question is really, here's what I want. And very few people can answer the question, Hey, what do you want? Like if you want$10 million, if that's your answer, okay, what is that going to get you time? Is it going to get you freedom? Is it going to get you laughter? Is it going to get you at, I'll preen to go fishing more. What do you want? And in the bedroom, um what do you want and what do you want to try what do you think would be fun where is play where is joy where is laughter and our culture so idolizes sex that every encounter has to be the super bowl and fireworks i think it's the great esther perel that says most of the time most meals are like you open the fridge and see what's in there right and we somehow say well then that's bad when it comes to sex, when that's bad when it comes to intimacy.

56:57Sometimes you just make out and fall asleep. Sometimes you got nine minutes and like, are you in? I'm it, right? Yet they all have to be this big extravagant. And I think that's this performative side of things. And so if I can't talk to the person that I've made humans with, my wife and I have created people together. If we can't talk about our money, if we can't talk about, hey, I have a dream for X, Y or Z. I have a picture of what our life could look like. If I can't talk about sex with her, then my relationship is not nearly as strong as I want to believe it is. And so I think it's A, getting the courage to ask myself, hey, what do I want?

57:38And why do I want those things? And then having the courage to look at somebody that I care about and say, hey, I'm putting this on the table. And that requires people to choose curiosity over judgment, right to ask the question wow why do you want that versus that's sick or you're gross there's something like let's let's engage in a playful thoughtful deep conversation that's curious based instead of judgment based and then we can begin to explore some of these things and it really takes all of the drama out of sex it really does yeah okay let's go through the last two so choose

58:15Hala Taha:Choose mindfulness and choose belief. Choosing mindfulness and mindfulness just turned into this whole, it's a whole thing. Michael Easter has written about it. If you haven't had him on your show, you should. He's, he wrote the book. I have, I have. He's the, he's the best. One of the greatest guys behind closed doors you can find. He just wrote a great piece on mindfulness. Here's, here's how I'll describe it. It's not an old man on a cloud with essential oils. It's mindfulness is simply the gap between stimulus and response. What just happened and what are you going to do next? Ryan Holiday talks a lot about that in his world.

58:45But like, this just happened. What are you going to do? And that is a thing you practice. Extending that space between that guy just cut you off in traffic. You just got a bad report. Your ex-boyfriend just got passed over for the promotion. What are you going to do next? And it never occurred to me that my reactivity was a thing I could practice. And that a thing I had control over time. And so being mindful is exhaling. One of my former students, a great friend of mine, Jefferson Fisher, says, go first, lead with your breath. Right. Like, so this thing just happened. Instead of speaking, instead of reacting, I'm going to exhale and then say, OK, what am I going to do now?

59:29That's mindfulness. Right. and the last one was choose belief um this has become unpopular to talk about although strangely there's been a wild resurgence over the last two or three years um for all of human history people walked out of their caves or out of their tents and they looked up to the sky and said dear god or dear gods or dear whatever please rain or my family's going to die and in the last century or so, we've been able to run water into every room in our house. We've been able to push a button and some little guy in skinny jeans will roll up here with a sandwich and say, here you go, sir.

1:00:08Right. We've gotten so arrogant about our role in the cosmos and we are biologically wired for belief. And even the great David Foster Wallace, who's an atheist, he's openly, he wrote about every act, every person worships something. And so if you don't regularly take a knee to something bigger than you, um, my family and I are Christian. I'm not even going to, I'm not going to tell everybody that's what you got to do, but you got to take a knee to something bigger than you and say, please help. And if you don't do that on a regular basis, um, your body cannot carry the weight of the cosmos. It can't carry the weight of the self.

1:00:49We are self-actualized and we're finding out the self can't hold, right? And so you have to submit to something bigger than you. And if you can't do that, here's my promise to you. You will find yourself in submission at some point, whether it's in an AA group, whether it's in a divorce court, whether it's in a hospital, you will submit at some point. And so practice that on a daily basis. And it begins to minimize or push off those moments that you can't control.

1:01:19Hala Taha:Yeah. So I want to follow up on Choose Belief. So you called out how churches sometimes weaponize scripture, like be anxious for nothing against people in pain. Oh, it abused it like crazy. Talk to us about that. I think people have always used scripture and faith and their version of God to try to control people. I think it's always been that way. and the way I look at it is you can drink too much water to the point that it'll kill you and that doesn't mean water's a bad thing that means that application of drinking water was not the right dose, right? It was not the right application for it and so, yeah, man, it's backing all the way out and saying if this person is giving me wisdom and they're walking alongside me and when it comes to people weaponizing scripture the fruits of the spirit what are the fruits on that tree?

1:02:11Is that person patient? Is that person kind? Is that person joyful? If they're not, then that tree isn't bearing fruit. And so if people are beating you over the head with that type of messaging, then it's usually not from the core central teaching.

1:02:28Hala Taha:Before you were bringing up the fact that we need to have like a decluttered environment. And I kind of want to circle back to just some like more general things that we need to be aware of. So you talked about decluttering our environment. Why is that so important to kind of just like simplify our life if we want to live a non-anxious life? Okay, so can I tell you, this is a silly thing that happened to me. Yeah, yeah, of course. There's a great friend of mine, her name's Dawn Madsen, and she has a YouTube channel called The Minimal Mom. She's brilliant, very kind, wonderful. So we were talking and she, she said this, she said, John, every object in your home is having a conversation with you all the time.

1:03:09And I was like, that's the stupidest woo woo thing I've ever, I got laughed, she laughed and I was like, whatever. so I got home from that trip and I walked into my into my house and in the in the basement I've created like a little I don't call it a man cave but it's kind of where my wife has said this is where all your chaos can live it's where all my hunting stuff is all my guitars are all my books are everything and so I just stood there quietly and I was like okay start talking things and then I sat there and then I sat there and then I started pretending and then I got all choked up after about 30 minutes.

1:03:45Because if I listened carefully, those guitars were saying, are you just not going to play me anymore? Remember when you were cool? Remember when you had dreams? Remember when you wrote songs? And the hunting gear was like, does this make you feel tough? Is this what this is? And the books on the shelf were like, hey, are you never going to read us? Are you just going to be stupid forever? Or, hey, you've already read us. Are we up here just so in case somebody comes over and they'll think you're smart? And then I went upstairs and I got kind of, I was kind of getting heavy. And then the dishes in the sink were like, you're just going to walk by.

1:04:14You're going to be that husband that doesn't help out around the house. And I started realizing everything in my house is trying to talk to me. The clothes. Oh, are you ever going to get back in shape so you can wear us again? Are you just going to keep us in here for decoration while there's people in your neighborhood that don't have enough clothes? Like everything was barking at me all the time. And that started a profound conversation with me and my wife and some of my closer friends about, I don't need all this stuff. And I'm letting this stuff try to tell my story about what I'm worth and what value I have.

1:04:48And I have imaginary conversations with this stuff. And it talks back. I have stuff in my house that's supposed to tell the world when they come visit, here's who this guy is. And instead of letting my kindness and my hospitality and my generosity speak for me, I was trying to get that bookshelf to speak for me. and that whatever. So it was a powerful, powerful, humbling experience of how much I had outsourced my, in the same way we talked about earlier, we outsource our net worth to our mental health diagnostics. I was also meant, I was outsourcing my worth to what brand guitar I had on the wall and what bow and arrow I had on the wall and what books I have at my house and what clothes I have on.

1:05:27And I realized how hollow and shallow that is. I've never, I spent most of my career in working with crisis stuff. I've never met with somebody who just lost a child. And they said, hey, you want to go look at the car out front? I've never sat with somebody who just lost a parent. And they were like, yeah, but man, you should see their 401k. I've never heard that.

1:05:47Hala Taha:Yeah. I have heard people say, I would give away everything for five more minutes just so I can say that one thing I need you to say. I've heard that. Yeah. And so it was just a reframe of if you are surrounded by all these voices all the time, your body will sound every alarm it has. And so it's just beginning to declutter that nonsense and get out of your head. It feels like that choose reality part of your six choices, like choosing reality is like mental, right? Like taking like a mental inventory of everything going on and all the things that are talking to you. And then you also need to look at your physical environment and kind of try to declutter that as well.

1:06:24Hala Taha:At least that's what I think of when you were explaining that. I think that to me is the, Dr. Amon's talked about the failure of distilling the human experience down into symptom clusters that we're going to look back in a hundred years and be ashamed of ourselves at how we pathologize the human experience. We give everybody a label. I also want to add to that. I think this is my community. The mental health community has failed dramatically telling people that mental and emotional health is getting all the right thoughts in the right order. That's false. You have to go take action. You have to go do things.

1:07:01Your physical environment matters. Your relationships matter. Your financial situation. I went through all of grad school. Two PhDs I have. Zero classes. None on the effects of financial stress and human flourishing. I never had that course. I didn't even have a class on that, much less a course on that. And then to see in my work with Dave Ramsey, to see the impact owing people money has on your relationships, on your soul, on your mental and emotional health. It's a huge miss. And so, yes, part of being well is writing things down and getting them out of your head. The mental thought, the thinking part of it.

1:07:39But a huge part of it is your relationships and your actions. What are you going to go do? Mm-hmm.

1:07:44Hala Taha:I want to close out this interview talking about relationships, right? Connection and all these great ideas that you have about connection. So let's start with you're talking about ChatGPT and I talk to ChatGPT all the time. It's like my assistant, I stopped going to my therapist and I talked to ChatGPT as my therapist now. And I actually think it's more effective personally, but you were mentioning how you don't feel like your body knows it's not a real relationships so talk to us about like what you like your vision of ai and how it's going to impact our relationships and connection i mean it one since the overlords are listening i love ai it's the best um i think a conversation with chat gbt is emotional pornography it look you can see it and you can experience it but it is different than being with somebody in a room with the door shut and that awkwardness and the temperatures and the feeling that that human connection you have and so yes and i think it's a challenge for mental health professionals to overcome if mental health professionals have distilled down therapy into a series of advice transactions then chad gp is going to take that job um i'll give you this this this is awesome my therapist here in town she's older than me by a decade or two she's an oracle very wise and she said this one day and it was unmooring for me she I'm telling you how I think she golf clapped me that's how I remember it but I can't imagine a therapist golf clapping a client right what does golf clapping mean I don't know just going like wow with an answer and she said I've been wondering and I'm right you John are smarter than me And I started laughing and she started laughing and she goes, no, but seriously, you've read more than I've read.

1:09:41You have an answer for every question I have. And she said, so next time you come to come to therapy, we're going to sit. We're going to look at each other and we're going to breathe. And I started laughing and I said, well, since I'm so smart, I know that's not what therapy is. Therapy is talking back and forth. And she said, oh, John, you have an answer for everything, but you can't sit in my presence and be okay with you. And that is why at this point, I am not concerned about ChatGPT taking over the human experience. It will give us some great answers. And I think mental health professionals have sold out to a degree to the right framework and the right six steps.

1:10:24And here I am writing a book with the six steps, right? But like to what's the advice instead of one of the most profound mental and emotional health moments of my life was when my wife was having her third miscarriage in as many months, I mean, many years. And it was an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured and she was in emergency surgery to save her life. And a cowboy from West, I was in West Texas, a big, tall six foot three cowboy walked in with his hat on and his boots and he sat next to me as a friend of mine. he said no words we nodded to each other I don't even know how he knew I was in this in this 12 by 12 room all by myself in a hospital waiting room he came and sat by me said no words and then when the doctor came in and said we lost the baby but your wife's okay I looked at him and he started crying tears that I didn't have yet and that was the first time I I was sitting by a guy who knew me, who loved me and was with me, not at me.

1:11:23And if you're with a therapist who is at you with their advice and their you need to's and their why don't have it used, Chad GBT is going to do better than that all day long. Chad GBT can't sit with you. Chad GBT is not going to cry with you at your funeral. And so that's where you can get advice. Great. But will somebody just sit with you? And that's what we don't have as a culture anymore. And it took this buddy of mine who's a cowboy. And by the way, that's not the only experience. I've had friends who show up and just will say, I'm here. I got an old casserole and a half bottle of wine. And I'll sit with you until the sun comes up.

1:11:57That's the human experience. And entrepreneurs have, they've got their mastermind groups and their bros. And they're like, check in. But you have some guys that just come over and sit with you. If you don't have that, you got to invest the time and the energy to get that. And by the way, you can't just you can't put a classified ads for that or you can't like there's not an app for that. There's just showing up, showing up and showing up and showing up.

1:12:24Hala Taha:Yeah. Any any like just advice for for people in terms of like making more meaningful relationships that aren't transactional? um the two big ones i'll tell you is to have friends who do things that you don't do that guy is a middle school um english professor he's a writing professor a teacher and he also is a children's author one of my best friends on the planet is a banker literally the guy who's the executor of my will is an executive at a bank i work for dave ramsey his whole job is selling people debt and my whole job is telling people to not take on debt right so and he is my closest friend on the planet.

1:13:03Other close friend I have sells insurance. Another close friend I have works in HVAC. So when we get together, it's not this cyclone of recursive conversation about the same topics and the same ecosystems and the same articles. We sit down and have a drink. We sit down and watch the fights. We sit down and go hunting. We sit down and do whatever. And we're talking about different things so we can have a broad human experience. And so for young entrepreneurs, find people who do jobs that you don't do, that are doing things with their life that is different than you, that you disagree with. Find those people because that's the key to a rich life.

1:13:40Don't just don't own a Mexican food restaurant and just only hang out with people who own Mexican food restaurants. You're going to all end up making the same meal. Right. And then if there's ever a shortage on queso, you're all going out of business. Learn how to make other things. Right. And that's number one. And the second one is, um, go first and be awkward. Just invite people to a thing. And, um, if you're an entrepreneur who's had a little bit of success, one of my rules now, um, is I've been blessed over the last few years with the businesses that I'm a part of have done well. It's been a good couple of years.

1:14:18Won't be like this forever, but I'm in a little snapshot. So when I'm going to a punk rock show, I always buy one or two extra tickets. And I invite a couple of people to go with me. And if they don't pay me back, I don't ever ask to Venmo me money. If they do, awesome. That's great. But I'd much rather be 85 and have gone to a cool punk rock show with some buddies than to have gone be 85 and have gone to a show by myself that I didn't share that with because they didn't have 50 bucks. And so it is go first, be weird, and just trust if somebody can't do something, maybe they've got stuff going on in their life and it has nothing to do with you.

1:14:54Have people over to your house, go do your weird things, go fishing, go bowling. I don't know what people do these days, but go do those things and get off the stupid screens and go have shared experiences in real life. Instead of playing Fortnite, go play paintball. Instead of playing duck hunt on the computer, I don't know, that just showed how old I am. Go actual hunting, right? Like go do stuff. And you're more likely to get hurt. You're more likely to have your heart broken. You're more likely to be made fun of. All that stuff's true. And you're also more likely to have a life worth having lived.

1:15:29Hala Taha:I got to ask you this question before you go. So you built this incredible brand. You are a creator entrepreneur. You've got an amazing podcast. You've got books. You've got, you know, millions of followers across IG and YouTube. A lot of people's dream right now is to become a creator entrepreneur like you. And you like basically have owned this category or you're a thought leader in the category of anxiety and mental health. Talk to us about like just, you know, some guidance of somebody who wants to become a creator entrepreneur to build a personal brand like you and who wants to kind of be dominant in a certain category.

1:16:05Hala Taha:Walk them through that. Oof. How honest can I be? Can I be super honest? Be so honest. Come on. All right. All right. this and you live in this world too and so you'll know what i'm talking about i think the great the super challenge the the highest challenge of um content creators is people trying to create content without truly knowing what they're talking about and um i came out of nowhere and i know that like media wise i had no my whole life was based around i don't want to be on the internet. And now here I am like, what an idiot. But it was 20 years of meeting with people behind closed doors and going to funeral homes and going to psych wards and sitting with people that now allows me to have my show where I sit with hurting people.

1:16:52And, um, a close buddy of mine, Lane Norton, who's like a PhD in nutrition. He's a world champion body. Like he's, he called me after I wrote my first book and I had a little thing about nutrition in there. And he said, Hey, quick note, you're wrong. You're incorrect. You got out over your skis on this one. And he's totally right. And so it was a commitment from that point forward. I'm only going to talk about things that I know. And that's number one. So if you want to be a content creator in entrepreneurship, go start businesses. Go do stuff so that you have true, real experiences. and I think the wisdom stool has three legs on it.

1:17:33One, have you done this thing? Two, do you have real, and I hate to say this, do you have real academic knowledge? Do you know what you're talking about? Most content creators in your and I world, you're in my world, they have an experience and they want to tell everybody about that experience. And listen, the number of people who write into me and they're like, hey, I cheated on my wife nine times, but we decided to work it out and now we have a course on how to be married. I'm like, dude, you're the last person that needs to tell people how to be married, right? You have an experience. You started a business, right?

1:18:08That doesn't make you an expert in entrepreneurship. That makes you an expert on your one thing that you did. Awesome. Congratulations. If you want to tell people about your experience doing that, fantastic. But until you've walked, started a bunch of businesses or spent time with a whole bunch of business leaders and listen to them weep and listen to them win and still not be full and listen to them lose, then you have to know what you're talking about. And then the third one is, I think it really is helpful to have a lived experience. We've all had professors that teach you how to do real estate.

1:18:40And you're like, hey, why don't you have real estate, right? Like you've never done this thing. And so having a lived experience helps. So that's number one, like know what you're talking about. The other thing, this comes from my wife and it's the single wisest piece of wisdom I received. I was at a university here in Nashville. It was my dream job. It was going to set our family up for life. And she comes from a house of school teachers and my dad was a policeman and then a minister and then back to being a policeman. So we had nothing, neither of us. I mean, we had everything we needed, but we did not come from stuff.

1:19:12And then I was like, Hey, I'm going to quit all of this and partner up with Dave Ramsey and start being in media. And she's like, Oh, geez. So here's the piece of wisdom she gave me. And it's proven so wise. She said, if you create an avatar, if you create some version, like I'm going to be the funny guy or the bro guy or the, if you create some version of yourself, eventually that will run out of gas. The energy to keep up that persona or that facade or that thing will exhaust you to the point that you're not able to keep it up. and then I responded with yeah I'm gonna just be me bro I'm gonna be me and authentic and whatever I used all the nerd words and then she looked at me she said hold on though you're weird and I was like what do you mean and she said you're a Texan who's got a lot of tattoos you have a counseling degree you hunt and you drive a Prius and you go to Sunday school and you've been to Pantera shows all like for years and you're like you're into heavy metal and punk rock music she goes you're a weird guy.

1:20:18And she said, you're going to have to go all in on you. And if it doesn't work, you're going to have to go to bed at night knowing America doesn't like me. And I just got, I got real quiet. And she looked at me and said, I'll always love you. Your kids like you, your friends like you, but you're going to have to go to bed at night knowing they didn't like me. And that was the wisest piece of information. And so I just, on my shows, I dress like a dress and I'm not polished because I'm not a polished guy. And I don't hate anybody. And so everybody's welcome on my show. And I know that makes all different people uncomfortable.

1:20:53But that's just how I am in real life. Everyone's welcome at the Delaney House. And everyone knows that, right? And so you have to just double down on being fully you. And people meet me and they meet Dave Ramsey. And they're like, how are you guys friends? Like y 'all are so different. Right. But if you distill way, way, way, way down, we both want to help folks. And we're both people of the same faith. But if you distill it down, sometimes he thinks helping people would be to really get after them. And sometimes I think helping people would be to hug them. But that core, that's just, I'm going to be this fully myself as I can be here.

1:21:28And if it works, awesome. And if it doesn't, I'm going to go to bed at night knowing I didn't put out a false image of myself. And so know what you're talking about and don't be afraid to go be your full, wacky, weird self. And then maybe, just maybe, it'll set off and work.

1:21:45Hala Taha:Such good advice. And I have to say, like, I've interviewed a lot of people from Ramsey, Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, now you. I'm so happy that I had you on the show. And you guys all really do want to help people. You guys just seem like you have such a great mission and business in general. And I just really love having you guys on the show. I appreciate it. It's the ethos of this company. And I have the luxury of seeing Dave at 2 a.m. with a ball cap on in the basement of a hotel. And I see how he tips people when there's no cameras on. And I see how he takes care of people in the hospital that never makes the news.

1:22:23And so it's just the ethos of Dave. It's the ethos of his company. You gotta be about helping other people.

1:22:28Hala Taha:This has been such an awesome interview. I enter my interview with two questions that I ask all of my guests. So the first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Call a friend or a person and say these words. Hey, can we get together? I'm not doing okay. And then go tell the truth. Why do we need to be truth tellers if we want to live a peaceful life? When I used to teach graduate classes for therapists, I'd always tell them, rule number one, your clients will lie to you. and they won't tell you the full picture. And I think we just don't have any place in our world where we can tell the truth.

1:23:07And if you go see a doctor, if you go see a therapist, if you have a close best friend, if you've got a spouse, you have to be able to say, here's the truth. And I think we're dying from that. I mean, we're gaslit on our news, we're gaslit on it. Just our whole culture is built around, look over here, look over here. And so being able to just call someone and say, here's the truth, is a freeing, freeing, freeing thing.

1:23:33Hala Taha:Okay, last question is, what is your secret to profiting in life beyond just bank accounts? Oh man, it goes back to, if somebody asked me the question on my deathbed, what are you worth? I'm gonna tell them, I'm worth my wife, I'm worth my faith, and I'm worth these experiences I had with these buddies.

1:23:56and underneath that is that old it's an old zig ziglar quote that dave quotes around the office all the time if you help enough people money will you'll never worry about money if you go help people and so um if your business if you're entrepreneur the business you're creating if it profits on other people's losing your business will fail period it's when it's when blockbuster put in their revenue line late fees, when they started banking on their customers, having penalties, that's the end of their business. And so if your business is about helping somebody have a better life, a more efficient life, a meeting a need in their world, your business will do well.

1:24:41And so I want that question at the end, what are you worth to be relational? And then at the end of that, I want to be able to say I was about helping people and And I didn't have to worry about money.

1:24:52Hala Taha:John, this has been so great. Thank you for spending so much time with me. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? I'm on the internet at John Deloney, the social stuff. And you can go to johndeloney.com, I guess for the other nerd stuff. I'm terrible with the internet. I still don't fully know how they all work. You're like, come find me. We'll put all your links in your show notes. YouTube, Dr. John Deloney Show. You can find it everywhere, yeah. Yeah, you've got an amazing podcast. Awesome. We'll stick all those links in the show notes. John, thank you again for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.

1:25:21Thank you for your hospitality. I'm really, really grateful.

1:25:25Hala Taha:This conversation couldn't have come at a better time. What Dr. John Deloney makes so clear is that anxiety is not always something to suppress or push through. For entrepreneurs, anxiety is often a signal, your body's way of telling you that something in your life or business feels unsafe, unsustainable, or out of alignment. And if you keep white knuckling your way through stress, eventually your body will force you to pay attention. So here's what I want you to do, Yap Gang. Go to yapmedia.com slash mentalwealth and open the safety audit worksheet. That's yapmedia.com slash mentalwealth to get your safety audit worksheet.

1:25:58Hala Taha:Then I want you to block 20 minutes on your calendar today, not this weekend, not someday, today. Do it. Sit down with a pen, write out the specific areas where your nervous system does not feel safe right now. Ask yourself, where am I constantly on edge? What am I avoiding? What am I using to numb out? what is draining me the most and then choose one real action to take in the next 24 hours. You may want to text a friend and say, I'm not doing great and I need to talk. You might move a non-essential meeting off your calendar or set a hard stop for work tonight or delete an app that keeps you spiraling.

1:26:32Hala Taha:Book your doctor's appointment, whatever it is. Go for a walk. Pick one thing that would make your body feel even 5 % safer this week and just do it, Yap Fam. And once you do that, notice what changes. Notice what happens to your body when you stop ignoring the signal and start responding to the signal instead. Because once you create a little more safety in your life, you can start to see the deeper mental patterns that have been driving your stress all along. Don't miss week three because we're diving into the inner critics and cognitive traps that hold high achievers back with performance psychology expert, Sade Zare.

1:27:07Hala Taha:So take the challenge, Yap Fam, do the worksheet, yapmedia.com slash mentalwealth to download that. And I'll see you in the next episode.