Dr. Michael Gervais: How to Perform Under Pressure Without Destroying Your Mental Health | Mental Health | E383

25:19If you did it, Hala, for like 90 days, every day you trained your mind, just like you train your body. Do you go to the gym and outside of Pilates? Yeah, all the time, every day. It's because you want something from it. You want a healthy cardiovascular system. You want healthy musculature. You want to look and feel a certain way. All of that, right? So the same is on the mental side. And you go to the gym probably 45 minutes to an hour a day? An hour and 15 minutes usually. And that's four days a week? Four or five days a week, yeah. I'm suggesting eight minutes a day. Eight minutes a day. That is available for all of us.

25:57And if we don't have eight minutes a day, something's wrong with the way we're designing our life and or we don't really understand the value of it. We don't do things we don't value. And so if we don't understand the value, that makes sense to me. And that's why I point to the greats. It takes a little bit of time to get the feelings that you're looking for. Whether you're in the gym, you don't go to the gym and all of a sudden, I don't know, have 10 % body fat or something. Like it takes time, right? Same is true for mental training. You don't do a handful of meditations or a handful of whatever and be like, I feel so happy in my life.

26:30It takes time. Is there an easy way to get started? I know you mentioned eight minutes a day. So is that an eight-minute meditation? Or what are you referring to in terms of eight minutes? I would say that meditation, I think the narrative is clear by now, the value of it. Eight minutes of meditation a day would be a great way to start. Eight minutes of a conversation with somebody of wisdom would be an interesting play to start, but usually those are a little bit longer. Eight minutes of breathing work, it's a good place to start. Eight minutes of mental imagery, that'd be an interesting play to start.

27:04And each one of those are uniquely different. And so let me just hit on imagery so we're on the same page. I know you've had tons of gurus about meditation. And something I think is very apparent in elite sport, but less apparent for the rest of us, is that elite athletes use their imagination to see themselves performing and being their very best at a later state. Imagination is the thing that allows us to predict and muse about the future. If left unchecked, if left undisciplined, it's supposed to try to sort out survival. And so our brain's mandatory algorithm is to survive. That means it's going to scan the world and find danger.

27:53That means when left to its own devices, the imagination is to muse about things that could go wrong to prevent us from being eaten by the wildebeest. So left unchecked, our imagination goes to bad situations, dangerous situations. That's totally good. I want to make sure my mind does not lose that bias, okay? Naive optimism, thinking about the future in a naive way, is very dangerous. Grounded optimism is awesome. So mental imagery is literally closing your eyes. It's a little bit easier because we're visual creatures. to close my eyes and to see a compelling future and to see me being my very best in it.

28:36And it's like creating the most beautiful movie you can imagine. And it's your movie. I asked world's most dominant UFC fighter for the history of all fighting. Okay, the most dominant UFC cage fighter. And I asked him about imagery. His name is Hicks and Gracie. So some of your audience will know Hickson, many will not. He's older now. He's out of his prime of fighting long ago. And he says, mental imagery. Oh, yeah. That's the most beautiful movie I can imagine. I play that movie every day from multiple angles with multiple scenarios so I can see and feel myself being my very best in what matters to me, whether that's being great in the cage because it's dangerous and being great at home.

29:25That's the power of mental imagery. Left undisciplined, I'll come back to this full circle, is that it moves to an anxious movie. It moves to a worried movie. It's okay sometimes, but if you're feeling a certain way, if you're unsettled, if you feel anxious, depressed, overwhelmed, much of this might be the programming that is just the natural byproduct of what your brain and your mind are supposed to do to keep you alive. I'm suggesting learn from what the greats do, purposefully design that movie every day from multiple angles, multiple scenarios, where you are absolutely seeing and feeling yourself being the rock star that you want to be.

30:03The joyful, bubbly, zest, fire, whatever the adjective is, you get to create that movie. And it doesn't mean how, it doesn't mean if you see it, it's going to happen. It's not like that. It's not like if you imagine the red Corvette showing up in your driveway that it's just going to show up one day. It's not like that. But when you see yourself moving gracefully, when you hear yourself in your own imagination, like adjusting and showing up in tense moments, you are programming yourself for future states. And so that programming is not a secret and it is something that requires skill to do. And in elite sporting environments, we have coaches for that.

30:45and the rest of us are kind of left to our own devices to say, well, how do I do it? Just like you're asking, well, how do I do it? I'll get off this narrative now, but it's just one more thing to say. Close your eyes. Imagine the colors, the scenario, the environment, the setting. Bring all of your senses to it, and that takes time to get them right. And then play the movie however you want. You can fast forward it, rewind it, see it from different perspectives, change it all together. If you don't like it, move on. And if you did that eight minutes a day, that's pretty cool. That to me is just so, so powerful.

31:21And while I don't do a lot of breathing or meditation, I do visualize myself and really have positive imagination in terms of like what my future is. And there's been certain moments in my life. Like I remember Russell Brunson asked me to speak at Funnel Hacking Live in front of 8 ,000 people. and I just kept envisioning like a standing ovation and like that it was going to be flawless. And I practiced a lot to make sure that would happen, but it's like exactly what I imagined is what happened in those moments. So let's do the public presenting thing for a minute. It's one of the great fears for Westerners.

32:02And what's at stake on that public speaking is really your identity, you know, the way that they think about you. And I think it's one of the great fears for modern people is the fear of other people's opinions is like the greatest constrictor, as you and I have talked about before. But when you're doing imagery, I think if I was to shape that for you, and that's the movie you're running, I would do an 85-15. So 85 % of the time, run that movie where you are 100 % in control of seeing how it goes. So the audience standing up and giving you all that adulation is not in your control. So I would actually not have that be part of the imagery.

32:47So interesting. Put a pin in that for a minute, okay? I would spend 85 % of the time seeing yourself running this beautiful movie where you're walking onto the platform grounded and clear. You put in your words, those are mine. Grounded and clear and benevolently interested and curious, but also honoring, there's things that I really want to share and I know, but I'm also like a learner. There's a unique broth that is unique to me that you need to know what it is for you. So see yourself walking or entering into the room in a certain way, and then seeing yourself stitch ideas together from slide one to two.

33:24But it's about the feeling that you're looking for, not about their response. So that's 85 % of the time. Okay. Then 15 % of the time, this is going to sound contraindicated. I would suggest you see yourself walking on stage being really anxious and nervous, like maybe nauseous, maybe a poor night's sleep, 50 % of the time being in a compromised situation so that you get familiar with some conditions that could show up and then seeing yourself work with those. So on the Finding Mastery podcast, we had Bob Bowman on, which was Michael Phelps' coach. And he recounts the story of Michael Phelps and how he does imagery.

34:04Michael Phelps, the greatest of all time swimming, just the ground. And he put himself in that 15 % category and he saw himself with his goggles flipping up at the Olympic trials and water filling up his eyes as he was making the last handful of strokes towards the end there. And he was using his imagination to see how he would adjust to that because goggles flipping up and water in your eyes is really distracting, but it happens. So he says, I want to know how to respond. I want to be familiar with that. So he would play that movie handfuls of times, just so he would be familiar with it. And just because you see it doesn't mean it happens.

34:44It's not how this works. But it does ready yourself. It does prepare yourself. And it did happen for him at the Olympic Games. And as the story goes, he stayed on time, on pace, unfettered, unbothered by his goggles flipping up, water gushing into his eyes, and he out touches his competitor by fractions of a second and is on the podium as a gold medalist. So that 85-15 is kind of a mix that I think is pretty sophisticated. And the other thing is, it's a nice little splash at the end to maybe see yourself standing on the stage. And I mean this, just a little splash, right? Seeing yourself standing at the end on the stage and seeing the audience roar.

35:27That's cool, but But it's a nice little hint. It's a nice little splash at the end. And that's it. Yeah. So I'm hearing you saying, focus on what you can control more so. Focus on how you're going to feel. Also, give a little bit of attention towards what could go wrong to prepare yourself for how to show up if something goes wrong. So I feel like those are just really, really helpful pieces of advice. And then the last bit on the imagery thing is know that it's hard. Okay. This is not an easy thing to do. When I do imagery with myself, so I grew up big wave surfing, and I'll just use that example.

36:05I put myself in a heavy situation because there's a couple things I want to work out. I'm paddling for a wave, and when you're paddling for it, you're putting yourself in one of two of the most dangerous moments on a wave. So if you're behind at that moment where you're paddling, you get pitched. If you're too early, you get crushed. So you've got to find that right rhythm, and you pop up. and I see myself in my own body moving down the wave and then making a bottom turn to set up my next segment of the wave. You can see yourself in your own body or you can see yourself watching from a different perspective.

36:40The science is unclear about which is better if either is all, but you want to feel it. You want to feel it. So as I see myself bottom turning, I would see myself my back foot slipping off. I don't want that. So I would rewind, I'd rewind my movie and put myself in a situation that I would regather myself and work through that bottom turn and have great command over that moment. And I would go at 25 % speed and then I'd run it back 50 % speed and then I'd run it back 75 % speed and then I'd run it back 100 % speed. So that takes a discipline. That takes effort. Also expertise. Like you know how to actually do it correctly.

37:23You might not in practice do it correctly every time, but you know how to do it correctly. And part of the early research here is that they would wire folks up in the laboratory and observe a couple things. How the nervous system would fire between people that were doing the activity, in this case it was basketball, and people that were imagining the activity. And what we found is just imagining the activity would fire across the nervous system the same bundle, the same regions, as if you were actually doing it, but it's as if it was below detectable movement. So you're getting neurological wiring across the most sophisticated part of that movement.

38:08The second thing that they observed is that just observing in your own mind movement, like a basketball free throw shot, created what's called myelinization across the nerve bundle. So myelin sheath is like the rubber coating in our nervous system that wiring has. You know, when you hold a wire and it's got rubber around it and it's got the metal through the middle. So the wiring is actually really important for efficiency of how fast the electricity moves through that wire. So the myelin in our nervous system is made up of fat cells. It's made up of partly of omega fish oils. So the more myelinization you have on your nervous system, the healthier the nervous system is, the faster it moves as well, the more familiar that track would be.

38:59And so you've got to make sure that you've got the right kind of omega balance in your body. And when you just imagine doing an action, it lays more myelin across that nervous system. And if you see yourself doing something quote-unquote perfectly, it's not a word I use ever, but I'm putting it in quotes for a shorthand. If you see yourself doing it expertly, is the right word, then that bundle becomes more grooved. So just seeing it creates more myelin sheath across your nervous system for the expert grooving of the pathway. Hala, that's a mind-blowing idea. Yeah, it's like getting reps in without actually physically doing anything.

39:40Without sweating, without putting yourself in harm's way, without, it's remarkable. The reason this is not celebrated more, I think is because we're so interested in like a cold shower. We're so interested in a sauna. These are hard, interesting modalities, but they're flavorful of where we're at at a narrative. I'm telling you right now, mental imagery, visualization as some call it, has been around for a long time. So is cold, so is heat, I get it. But it's in plain view and it's a massive, massive advantage to living the life that you want to live. For somebody like me who has a little bit of ADHD and has trouble sitting still and meditating, which I know stillness is really important to everything that you teach, mental imagery sounds like something that I can do often and in a routine.

40:33You know what that means to me is like with ADD or ADHD, it's just a little harder. It doesn't mean you don't do it. It's just a little harder than somebody that doesn't have it. But you know what? It's harder for me to dunk a ball than it is for somebody that's 6 '5". But if that's important, I got to put in the work if I want to be able to do it. Okay. It might be harder for me to do X skill in my craft than somebody else, but it's important capability. So I've got to invest in it. And I would say, I'll give you this one for you and other fidgety people. When I do mental imagery, my eyes are usually closed because I don't want to be overwhelmed, like I said.

41:10But sometimes you can do it open, no problems. But I, for those watching, you can see my hands, is that I'm actually using my body to kind of sink in, to feel. So it's not like I'm sitting on my hands in a meditative, dignified spine. you can do that. You can lay down and do imagery, or you can have slight movements where you're using your body to go through motions, feeling yourself walk on stage, right? Seeing yourself hold a moment, feeling your arms coming out. It's slight movements. It's not the actual full movement. It's just slight movements to accompany the imagery that you're doing.

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46:06Disclaimer, results will vary. Not all bills or subscriptions are eligible. Savings not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. See Experian.com for details. So you had briefly touched on FOPO just now, fear of other people's opinions. We talked about it at length in our last conversation. We're going to replay that episode later this week when this actually airs. But for those who might not catch that episode, Talk to us about why we need to avoid FOPO and how we can. Fear of people's opinions, we believe, according to our research, is the greatest constrictor of somebody's potential.

46:46So this is not not caring about other people's opinions. This is about the excessive worry and addressing the excessive, nearly incessant worry like, Are they going to think of me based on what I wear, what I say, what I eat, what I look like, what I do and don't do? This excessive worry that is a rumination underneath the surface. That is something that we must square with in modern times. Because again, our brain is designed to scan all the dangers. The great danger for our ancestors that they passed on to us was being kicked out of the tribe. because if you and I were responsible for something, Hala, we were meant to go hunt something or gather something or whatever, and we're the team, and we came back empty-handed.

47:33The elders of the tribe would say something like, you know, Hala, you know, Mike, we're counting on you. There's going to be some hungry kids in our tribe because you didn't bring back this stuff. What happened? And you'd say, it wasn't me, it was Mike. Or you'd say, look, okay, we understand. Okay, all right, give us another shot. We understand what we did. And the elders say, okay, you got another shot. We're backing you. So we go out and if we come back empty-handed again, we're relegated. And being relegated socially 200 ,000 years ago was a near-death sentence because you and I trying to figure out the wild world of the wildebeest and the warring tribes and rain and heat, it's too much.

48:17We need each other. So our brain is tuned to listen for our name. It's tuned to what are they saying or thinking. And we're playing this game, this radical game of not being rejected, of avoiding rejection. So it's this fear of rejection that is just underneath the surface. And when you shine light on it, you have some optionality. And I would never say, stop caring. I say, stop worrying. and I would never suggest that being free from the opinions of others is the right path, but loving other people and holding your own standard for the values and the skills that you are working on expressing.

48:59There's a different math, if you will, amongst people that are, I think, the most game-changing, shifting people on the planet. And those are the ones that I highlighted in the book and in the research. And we called it the first rule of mastery. and literally stop worrying about what they think of you and do it a little bit differently. I'm wondering how that translates into goals. People are thinking about their New Year's resolutions. When I was just telling you about my goal of Funnel Hacking Live, that big speaking thing I did was everybody standing up and giving me a standing ovation. And you were like, don't make that your goal.

49:35So talk to us about how we should be framing our goals with FOPO in mind and with all your knowledge about mastery in mind? I don't think it's a bad goal. It's just, you're putting yourself, you know, the standing ovation or winning in some way. It's like, they're great. I wanted to win everything that I did when I was in fourth grade. I just don't need to think that way anymore. Yeah. And because when I'm thinking about things that are, and my goal is something that's out of my control, now I'm out of leverage. And so, listen, I want to win still, But I'm placing my inputs on things that I can completely master.

50:14So I'm not interested in controlling the controllables. I heard you say that earlier. I'm interested in fundamentally mastering the things that are in my control. So goals that are about winning that have to do with other people's participation, there's a place for it. But it's kind of that light little dusting that I've found that the best in the world, they are not trying for the most part to be the best. They are trying to be their best. And they also believe that their best is so world-class that if they just string that together consistently, all of that podium, all of that money thing does happen for them eventually.

50:51So when it comes to goals, there's a place for outcome goals that by definition do not have your full control. There's a place for it, no problem. I would put 95 % of my thinking power into the goals that are 100 % in my control, and I would fundamentally commit to mastering those. That's the way that I think we put ourselves in the greatest position for being powerful. And so the way I think, the way I use my emotions, the way I work with other people, all of that is the stuff that is the broth, again, of mastery. And so I would distill those. Now, there is this mesolayer about number of downloads maybe for your podcast network, revenue stream for whatever, or number of shows that you want to sponsor.

51:42Okay, there is a thing there that's cool. And it's not about the ultimate thing, but it's about steps along the way. But underneath the surface, the magic happens when you figure out the things that you are 100 % in control of that you can invest in every day that lead you to those objectives, to those outcomes. That is not new. That is not new information. I just want to make sure that we're saying the most obvious as a regrounding. And the other thing, resolutions, we know, they don't work according to research. And why is that? It's because the plan is not adequate for the idea. And so within three months, the majority of resolutions fall apart.

52:25So there is good science, though, about the timeliness of a fresh start. So a fresh start happens on a Monday. A fresh start happens at breakfast. A fresh start happens on January 1st. A fresh start happens in the U.S., let's say, Thanksgiving Day. There's a fresh start going into a holiday season, something like that. So taking advantage of this momentum that happens around fresh starts, there's good signs there. So when we use January 1st as a mechanism to get our stuff together, to declare and make a promise about how we're going to do a new fresh year, and then we put in the work underneath of it of the skills that we need, hopefully, to master, to be proficient with, that is how the best in the world work.

53:15is that they use the beginning of a season with an idea of what they want to go do. And then they spend all of their time working on mastering the capabilities so that when they have moments, like a game, that they're able to express themselves at the highest level, what they're truly capable of. And I'll leave you with this on the goal setting thing. I spent 10 years with the Seattle Seahawks. We won a Super Bowl and we lost the Super Bowl, which is a rare thing to do, super special. Both of those years, we only talked about winning once. It was like three weeks at the beginning of the year when we're working on our culture, when we're working on our psychology as a team approach.

53:55Three weeks we're installing the way that we think is going to give us the best chance of training our mind, training our craft, and training our body to be great teammates for each other. So each person to be their very best so we can be great teammates to each other. That's what makes a great team. Side note, I'm fatigued about like, how do we make a great team? You'd be great teammates. How do you be a great teammate? You invest in you being absolutely your best in the most stressful conditions. You will never be a great teammate if you're losing your shit as soon as it gets stressful, as soon as it gets scary, as soon as it's not going according to plan.

54:30When you're blaming other people, when you are pointing your finger, when you are intolerant of other people's process, you will never be a great teammate. You'll never be part of a team. And we need each other to do the extraordinary. So I'm ringing the bell. You've got to invest in your psychology to be great at the moment of stress. Okay, back to the scenario. This three-week install at the beginning of the year. And then it's a throwaway comment by, usually it was for both of these years in particular, it was by the head coach, Pete Carroll. And he says, if we do what we just said, and we do it to our very best abilities every day, we just might win the whole thing.

55:09That was the only time that we talked about winning. I'm being dramatic. Maybe there was another mention somewhere in the year. But as a unit, we only focused on the things that were 100 % under our control. So I've got living proof through that story that it is an outsized investment when you are mastering the things that are in your control. And that goes back to what you were talking about, meditation, breathing, imagery. Self-talk. Self-talk. Those are the ways that you can manage your emotions. A lot of the people listening to this show, they're entrepreneurs, they're executives. And when it comes to being in a high-level position on a team, I feel like when things go wrong, it's usually because you as a leader were unable to manage your emotions.

55:56And I feel like whenever I can think of any low point in my career as a leader, I have 60 people on my team. It's like, man, I wish I just kept my cool or that I just handled that with a little bit more grace and poise. And those are the only times where I look back and I'm like, I'm disappointed in myself. I could make a mistake. I could lose money. Those things I don't even think about. It's when I lose emotional control that I feel like that has repercussions down the line. Because the way that your team responds to you is in direct relation with the energy that you're giving out as a leader.

56:31There was not a word out of place. I think what is important for me to add to that, which is very little, is that we have to practice working with emotions. And so if you're practicing, just like we talked about earlier, there's steps. You practice a skill, whether it's Pilates or throwing a football or speaking or singing, in a calm environment, then a moderately intense environment, and then a highly intense environment. There's an arc. And if you think that you're going to be good with emotions in a highly stressed environment, and you're going to sort it out at that moment, but you haven't practiced emotions at the former two levels, meaning the calm environment and or the more moderate stressful environment, it won't be there for you.

57:14So we need to work with emotions in calm environments. How do you do that? Meditation, journaling, conversations with people of wisdom, putting yourself in a situation to feel and follow that feeling, name that feeling. You know, emotional intelligence is a skill set. Intellectual intelligence, general intelligence, as it's known, is pretty fixed, according to research, most research. Emotional intelligence, as one of the core foundations for living a good life, is a learned skill. And so you got to look in, you got to understand. And just naming an emotion and following an emotion, it's two of the really big skills to be able to have in the bucket, if you will, of performance.

57:59And the other bit I'll just add is that people are pretty stressed right now. And when we think about our teammates and our partners, they're caring a lot. People are caring a lot around with them. And the world is not designed for our success. And if we want to have the great life that we imagine, we do need to understand how to work with emotions. More importantly, how to work with feelings. So emotions are the physical things we feel, and feelings are the private things that happen. So feelings are private to you, they're private to me. I have to ask you, like I noticed that your breathing changed, or your heart started pounding, or your hands were shaking.

58:45What's happening? And then you would go to say, I'm really scared or I'm really excited. Physiologically, they might look the same, but psychologically, the feelings are so private. Emotions are public. We need to work with both the observable public parts, the emotions, and the private piece, which is our feelings. Let's do a little scenario work. So let's say, you know, I'm a leader on a team and the team does something that is clearly wrong. There's an SOP, they've been trained, and they made a mistake and a client got mad, and it's because they didn't follow what they knew they should have done.

59:26How would you manage your emotions in this case? It depends on a couple variables. I've invested a lot of time under tension to work well with emotions. So my emotions are available to me, and I have the ability to toggle them up, toggle them down. for the most part. I get caught in this storm of emotions as well. But so one is I just want to level set that, that I am aware because of how much time I've practiced them for the most part. I'm not walking on water. My wife reminds me of that all the time. So there's none of that that I would ever pretend. Okay. My 17-year-old son reminds me of that more than you would imagine as well.

1:00:07So there's an awareness. And the second thing is now we're talking about somebody didn't follow an SOP and there's a poor performance moment, is that I need to know and have a relationship with that person, with my teammate, with my employee. I need to know what their scar tissues are. I need to know what their hopes and dreams are. And I need to make sure that I have a relationship with them, that if I were to express frustration is fine. It's just expensive for me. and it's expensive and taxing for the other person. But if we have a relationship and they know me and I know them at the right levels, I can say, John, what the fuck?

1:00:48And John goes, oh shit, I know. And I say, look, all right, we'll solve this later. Okay, how do we fix it? How do we fix it right now? And then so we go into, maybe that's kind of the lowest performance thing I would say. At my highest version, the thing happens and I go, market, let's solve it right now. we'll come back. No worries. Let's solve this thing. Come on, let's be great. That would be a range. And I have to know how they like to be coached as well. Some people fall apart when there's public coaching. So I have to know my teammate. So well in advance, I ask all of my teammates, how do you want to be coached?

1:01:27How do you want to be in intense environments when they're not going well? And some will say, pull me aside. Some will say, give it to me straight, you know, right between the eyes, then we'll say, so I've got to know, I've got to know myself and I've got to know them. And now I'm working to kind of match those two in service of performance. If it's a post review and we're sitting down, clearly John or Susie kind of blew it. And then I will say, okay, listen, I want to understand what happened and I'm hot and I'm frustrated, or I'm really nervous that this is going to happen again. I'll tell them my emotional state so that they can settle down.

1:02:04And I'll say, listen, I might even say, we've talked about this three times. This is a dangerous conversation here. We've got to solve this, meaning you're at the end of the rope. I might say that. Or I might say, look, it's fine. This happens. We all make mistakes. What's my part in it? So again, I've got to know the person. I've got to understand the context, but I've got to work within myself to make sure that I'm working my emotions rather than emotions working me. And as somebody in a position of leadership, that context is really important. You know, as soon as you get frustrated, it kind of sends ripples that are not necessarily advantageous for people to perform better, but it does shift their physiology and tightens them up.

1:02:46Sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes tightening up the physiology in people is a good thing. Sometimes it's too much and the aperture shuts down and people are like, again, they feel like choked off to their ability to think clearly. How else can we build psychological safety within a team? So obviously controlling our emotions is a huge part of it. Is there any other tips that you can give? I would say not controlling emotions. I would say working with them. So emotions are a little bit like the elephant and you are the rider. And when an elephant, an emotion in this case, wants to run, it's going to run.

1:03:21So I think working with emotions rather than controlling them. It's how I frame that. And also to your point, you might feel the emotion, feel the feeling, but you strategically are presenting it in a way to your team that you feel is going to bring out the best in them and help them actually solve the problem rather than make them feel anxious or to your point, choked. That's right. And you as a leader need to know, be artistic with how much tension, how much not. Like we need tension. We need tension to have that right kind of diamond expressing thing. Too much tension, we crush the coal. Not enough tension, we never get to the diamond.

1:03:58So there is tension in the environment that is awesome. It's so fun. Sometimes I got to bring it, sometimes they're bringing it, and I got to back it down. Like, there's an art in here. So let's ground on psychological safety first. For what aim? Okay, psychological safety as a theory is designed for people to speak truth, to power, maybe, but just to speak their truth, to share their perspective without fear of being pushed out of the tribe, okay? Psychological safety is not in the workplace. It's not designed for therapy at work. It is not designed so that you can bring your full mess to work.

1:04:37That is not what psychological safety is for, okay? Psychological safety is so that when you see something, you can say it, right? And so, hey, listen, I've been studying this thing all day. I know no one wants to hear this right now because we've all made a decision. We're down this path. But I got to tell you, I'm seeing something that's not right. I haven't worked it out or, and I've worked it out and I just got to tell you, we need that. We need the diversity of thought, the diversity of unique life experiences, the diversity of unique smells across the planet to say, this doesn't fly. This language doesn't fly for that group, for this group.

1:05:13We need to change some stuff. So psychological safety in service of the purpose, in service of the mission, so that you can speak truth. Maybe it's the power, but not always. Okay. How do you do it? You have to know your people. That's it. So we spend so much time in high-speed, high-performing environments to know each other. because when you know each other, you have context. And when you know that there's like, okay, Hala just stepped on a tripwire here. She's kind of like in a space. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, slow down. What is it, right? Or like I see you ripping and running, you're animated about something.

1:05:55And I know maybe your kids' names. I know some stuff about you. I know that this is really exciting or you're fresh, whatever. If we know each other, we're more likely to take care of each other. And again, it's in service of this shared thing that we're coming together for. That's a lot there. How do we do it? We take time to know each other. Full stop. That's how you do it. And I'll tell you a story. It was in Formula One. I spent some time in Formula One, one of the most high-performing sporting environments on the planet. And after the race, I mean, the engineers, we all know the athletes.

1:06:31They call themselves the pilots, the drivers of the cars, and they're kind of the stars. The car itself is a star in Formula One. And there's thousands of people that are working to help the car and the driver to shave off hundreds of a millisecond across high-speed corners. This is an all-in, high-speed, high-agile, consequential environment that they're working in. After debrief, the meetings that I've been part of, in one team in particular, the engineer, the lead engineer, would raise his hand after the meeting and start the meeting by saying, okay everybody here's the two ways that i screwed up you know here's the two mistakes i'm going to sort out i don't have the answers but i i'm aware of a b and c that i did at this moment in this moment and um you know i'm going to look for holla i want to connect with you afterwards to make sure that you help me through some of these blind spots so they are showing that they are part of the ecosystem and none of us is perfect of course so when a leader does that it creates air cover for other people to speak the truth about what happened.

1:07:35So again, it's in service of the shared mission. And if everybody's in service of the mission, but the mission is not in service of their experience in life, that doesn't work. It's an exhaustive, extractive model. So the company needs to know their mission or purpose, and the individual needs to know their purpose. And then we're in service of both of those together. That's what great teams do. That's what great teammates do for each other. I have so many follow-up questions, but the first one that comes to mind is when we're trying to get to know our employees, you had mentioned we want to understand how they want to receive feedback.

1:08:16What other questions should we be asking people to really understand them and to work better with them? These are hard questions, but there's no secrets in it. Everyone I work with, you know, whether they're athletes or teammates here at Finding Mastery, I want to know their personal philosophy. I want to know their first principles that they're working from. I want to know the values that those principles rest on. And I'll explain all these in a minute. I want to know what the compelling future that they're working toward. I want to know their purpose in life. Now, those are all very distinct, separate things that kind of get confusing for some people.

1:08:49But when I ask you, Hala, like, what's a compelling future that you see in your mind that you're working towards? I envision having 100 top business podcasters in my network. And I have a company that makes$30 million a year and a happy team. There you go. Okay. That's the vision. And I go, oh, okay. Yeah, I want to be part of that too. And then you say, Mike, what's yours? And I'll just, I'll make something up for the sake of like an opposite. And I say, you know, I want to be, this is actually true, But my vision of success is like having an adult relationship with my son. And you go, oh, I'd like to help you with that too.

1:09:31So now we got this thread. So that's us sharing this beautiful future state. That's why we're working so hard. I say, yeah, I want to help. I want to participate. I want to be part of yours. And I'd be stoked if you could support me along the way. And maybe you say, look, I'm going to pay you a lot of money. and this is going to be a great environment and that's how I'm going to be in service. Awesome, we're clear. And then I say to you, what are the most important values? When you get tested, what can I trust? How are you going to show up from your values? And you would say, just give me one.

1:10:06Loyalty, excellence. Oh, you got two. Okay, great. And then I say, loyalty. I say, okay. How do I know if you're going to be loyal to me or the brand? Now I'm asking you about your first principle because you might say something like loyalty to those that are in my inner circle. Am I in it or not? Like, I need to know, like, how do you express that value? So you don't need to answer that. Like, you know, and then I would say, like, when it all comes down to what is the philosophy that you're working from? And you might say, you know, my philosophy, I'll tell you mine, is that every day is an opportunity to create a living masterpiece.

1:10:44I see every day as the platform. I see it as an opportunity. So there's an optimism to it. I see creating something with other people, like part of it. And the masterpiece is the expression of my craft and myself in the most capable ways. So like you go, oh, that's kind of what you're doing. That's your philosophy. Okay. So the compelling future, you got some values that you're working from. There's this philosophy thing. And then the last is what is your purpose? Can I ask you? Yeah. Like, do you know your purpose? It's a big question. It's a big question. Whenever I think about my purpose, I think about my ability to use my voice and my skills to help other people in their own entrepreneurship journey.

1:11:28So inspiring others to be great entrepreneurs. That's a purpose. Why are you here? I'm here to help other people become better entrepreneurs, more themselves, whatever. You color it, right? So purpose has to have three things. It's got to be meaningful to you. Sounds like it is, right? It's got to be in service of something bigger than you. So when you're in service of one other or more than one, it's bigger than you. And the third is it's out in front of you. It's something to work toward. So you just, by definition, according to science, hit on all three of the vectors of purpose. And when you kind of put that constellation together, now I really know you.

1:12:08And then if you're like, Mike, that's really it. And I go, is it like this or like that? And we just kind of fine tune it. You go, yeah, it's more like that. And then I would say to you at the end, I'd say, how do you want me to support and challenge you? And then we have that conversation. Now we're on the path to be great teammates. Now, if I am selfish and messy, and if I just told you a narrative, but I don't really believe it, and I'm just really kind of doing something else, we'll never be good teammates. You know, so those people, you got to move out. They're not part of it. That might be hard because they might be high earners, but they kill culture.

1:12:41They kill the team. And so I have not yet met or worked with a world-class coach in sport and business, not coaching business, but executive in business that hasn't said the same thing. Why did I wait so long to get rid of them? And I'm talking about the high earners that are saboteurs of other people's potential. Why did I wait so long? I was scared. I was scared that they were going to take revenue and leave. I was scared that I was going to lose marketplace. I was scared that they were going to cost a game here or there. Yeah. Sometimes you got to focus on the long-term, not the short-term.

1:13:20So I want to be respectful of your time. So I end my show, Michael, with two questions that I ask all of my guests. The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Understand the inputs to output when it comes to your psychological skills. Invest in one of the greatest inputs you'll ever have. Invest in how you work with your own psychology. Know yourself so that you can be a great teammate for others. And then the output starts to flow in the right direction. Invest in your psychology. I couldn't agree more. And what would you say your secret to profiting in life is?

1:14:00And this can go beyond business. I think my secret is that there are no secrets. There are first principles in life that I'm working from. And for me, profit, I think of holistically. And so I would put in place of that, this idea of living a great life. So what are the principles to living a great life? The research from Harvard's 85-year study pointed out eloquently two of them, connection and purpose. So my relationship with myself and other people, my relationship with experiences and Mother Nature, that's the connection thing. So I invest there. And then I'm making sure that I'm lining up my thoughts, words, and actions according to the purpose that matters most to me.

1:14:44So those two, I think, are in plain view. And if you couple that with, you know, investing in your own psychology, I think you really got something. And where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? The podcast is a fun place. Finding Mastery is a podcast. You know, our website is findingmastery.com. And on social, Michael Gervais. Spelled like Ricky Gervais, but with Michael in front of it. Yeah, and he's got a great podcast, guys. So I'll put the link in the show notes and you guys should check it out. Thank you so much, Michael, for all of your wisdom and your time. Always a pleasure.

1:15:18Thank you so much.

1:15:23What a transformative conversation with Michael. He just handed us the exact blueprint that the world's greatest athletes and performers use to unlock their potential and achieve mastery. And here's the truth that landed the hardest for me. Mastery isn't some distant goal reserved for the elite. It's just about two things. First, understanding who you are and how you work. And second, building the skills to express yourself at your highest level, no matter what is happening around you in that moment. And here's the beautiful part. While AI evolves and the world changes, these fundamentals will stay timeless.

1:15:57Michael made mental training ridiculously practical. Just eight minutes a day is all you need. That's all it takes. Box breathing for laser focus, down-regulation breathing to activate your rest and digest system, capacity-building breathing to literally expand your ability to handle stress. These aren't gimmicks. They're psychological skills that separate people who crumble under pressure from those who thrive in it. And the 85-15 imagery rule completely shifted my perspective. I was doing it all wrong. Michael encourages us to spend most of our mental rehearsal on what we can control, your preparation, your mindset, your feelings, how you'll execute, Then practice responding when things go sideways as well.

1:16:36Don't only focus on what could go great, focus on what could go wrong and how you'll handle it. Michael Phelps won gold with water flooding his goggles because he already lived that moment hundreds of times in his imagination. I love the concept of mental imagery and I can't wait to use this tactic. And this is where it gets real. Stop obsessing over outcomes you cannot control. That standing ovation, that revenue target, that promotion, that's not where your power lives. Put 95 % of your energy into mastering what's completely yours, how you think, how you handle emotions, how you show up. When you consistently nail those inputs, everything else will follow.

1:17:14And here's what I'm gonna leave you with, Yap Fam. The world's best are not winging it. They're training their minds with the same discipline they bring to their bodies. Your psychology goes everywhere that you go. So train it, sharpen it, master it, and make time for it. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Young and Profiting. If you enjoyed the show, drop us a five-star review on Apple, Spotify, CastBox, wherever you listen to the show. Nothing makes me happier than reading a great review from you. And if you want to watch this episode, all of our episodes are uploaded onto YouTube. Go there, support us, subscribe to that channel, join the community.

1:17:49You can also find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Hala Taha. And of course, before we go, I've got to give a big shout out to my incredible Yap team. Thank you guys so much for all your hard work. This is your host, Halataha, a.k.a. the Podcast Princess, signing off.