Ken Coleman: Stuck in the Wrong Career? Here's How to Break Free | Career | YAPClassic

19:00Ken Coleman:You need to pick me up. I want you to just rewind your life. And throughout your life, there have been times where people said, you're a natural at that, or that just comes so easy to you. Maybe you saw your sibling struggle at it and you went, huh, it's easy for me. Here's my point. Once we all truly get self-aware enough to go, okay, this is what I'm good at naturally. With education, I'm learning and experience doing, I can take a talent and I can make it super, super sharp. I can make it a skill. All right. So you think of a, I'm going to use an old school kind of example here. You think of a potter.

19:38Ken Coleman:I don't know if any of your audience has ever watched a potter make pottery. It's fascinating to me. They take a lump of clay, they put it on the potter's wheel and through water and their force of their hands, working with the wheel, they shape this inanimate object of clay into something extremely usable. I want people, that's the idea of taking a talent and turning it into a skill. We start there. And once we figure out what we're good at and how we can turn that into a sharpened skill, now we can see the world through the lens of, I've got these tools, think of them as power tools, not the old school handsaw, but like, you know, we're doing it in six seconds as opposed to six minutes.

20:20Ken Coleman:So now I can see I have these tools and these tools, skills do this. And so as I begin to see what these skills can do, then that allows me to do two things. Number one, it allows me to build confidence. Confidence is everything. I'll just tell you this as a guy who's been blessed, and I mean this, to just coach people. They've called in for years, and it's just mind-blowing. And I have to coach them in about eight minutes, which is, that's intense, but I tell you what it's taught me. It's taught me how to quickly discern what's going on and get to the heart of the matter fast. But what I've learned is just about every caller or every person I've coached from a live stage, they're sitting there with an alternative they think is the right choice, and they're ultimately looking to me for confidence.

21:07Ken Coleman:That's what I know. So I'm speaking about confidence being really, really important. So once I'm confident, I know what I can do. I'm confident. That's what happens. And then clarity starts to come in. You know, you just look at me. I suck in math and science skills. I mean, that part of my brain, I should have my brain studied when I die because it's dark. It's just math and science really hard for me. And so I was always good in the English or the history, much more verbal guy. So if I'm looking at me and I'm going, what do I do best? Well, communication, verbal skills. All right. So I'll tell you what I'm not going to be doing.

21:41Ken Coleman:I'm not looking into health and medicine. I'm certainly not looking at medicine or something. So that's the idea. And it gives me clarity. Oh, I probably am wired to do people work.

21:51Hala Taha:Yeah. You know?

21:52Ken Coleman:Yeah. So that's the idea.

21:54Hala Taha:What's so interesting is that we always hear about imposter syndrome, right? Yeah. And really, imposter syndrome, in my opinion, is when you're in a job that you don't have the right skills for. You don't have the right talents for, and you feel inadequate because it's not your strength. Would you agree with that?

22:10Ken Coleman:I think it can be that. Yeah. Let's take that scenario. In that situation, you realize, I don't think I'm cut out for this because I don't have the talent. It's like me trying a new sport. It was the golf example earlier. I get out there and play enough and play with better golfers. I'm going to have some doubt as to whether or not I'm ever going to get there. Well, in that situation is not a syndrome. that's reality that's me going i'm not gonna be good enough i just don't have the skill set the mental makeup to be good in golf so yes it absolutely can be a sign that and i'm glad you brought this up because a lot of times even even a guy like me in my world i'll poo poo fear and doubt because they are they are enemies of progress but many times fear and doubt are protecting us.

22:59Ken Coleman:And in the scenario you just brought up, which I think is insightful, we've got to have enough self-awareness that when we experience doubt, we know whether doubt is lying to us and holding us back or doubt's going, there's a reason that you have doubt. You're average at best. If you bust your ass, you're only going to be average and people don't pay for average.

23:21Hala Taha:Yeah. It's almost like, is this like a dictionary problem where you need to learn the ropes and the abbreviations that everybody's using? Or is this really like a skills problem and it's not your strength? Yap gang, on the show, I've sat down with Robert Greene, Seth Godin, Alex Ramosi, Gretchen Rubin, James Clear, so many epic, epic guests. And what do all these guests have in common? Every single one of them has a bestselling book. And every one of those books are on Blinkist. Here's something I've been thinking about. With AI, everybody has access to the same answers, but the people who actually read, who absorb real ideas and think for themselves, they're the ones with the original take in the room.

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26:03Hala Taha:Yeah, fam, have you ever had a message you meant to reply to and then just didn't? It happens to the best of us, and in business, that adds up fast. Because when somebody is ready to talk, speed can secure the deal. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the smarter way to run your business communications. I've seen this firsthand with my clients. Suddenly, a lot of our clients don't want Slack or cool automations. They just wanna text and get a fast response. They wanna go back to basics. And if we don't make that easy for them, we become the bottleneck. So we decided to switch to Quo.

26:38Hala Taha:Now we use one shared business number. Every call and text goes to the whole team. Everybody sees the thread and anyone can respond. and nothing gets lost. No bottlenecks, no I'll get back to this later, just fast, clean communication, how clients actually want it. It's a simple shift that removes one of the easiest ways to quietly lose revenue. Money is on the line, Yap Fam. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20 % off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash profiting. That's Q-U-O.com slash profiting. Quo.com slash profiting. So let's talk about boredom and disengagement at work Because I remember last year, so many of my conversations, people were talking about quiet quitting and so many people were quitting their jobs to become freelancers and entrepreneurs.

27:25Hala Taha:I feel like it's sort of like studied out a bit. But talk to us about the problem of being disengaged and bored at work right now.

27:32Ken Coleman:Yeah, I love that you bring up boredom. It doesn't get talked about enough, I think, when we talk about these work trends. So boredom is just a function of there's just no challenge. There's no challenge. And challenge comes at us, I think, with two key characteristics. I'm challenged because it's difficult, but I think I got enough chops to handle it. Okay. Or I'm challenged because I love it so much that I want to take that to the next level. And so what I mean is, let's go to the guy who's the goat on this. You can't spell his name. I've practiced it forever, Hala. You'll appreciate this. His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

28:18Ken Coleman:And I think he's Hungarian or Romanian, but he's got a very popular TED talk on the topic of flow. And here's what his research over 30 years found. Part of being in a state of flow, which is mere kind of a state of ecstasy, actually, this is not drug or sexual. It is a mental state that he describes. and part of getting to that flow is challenge. It must be challenging so that I am engaged to, I got to really lock in, I got to focus, I got to put heart, I got to put effort in, I got to be at my best. So that's the challenge piece. But the challenge and the aptitude or the ability to meet the challenge are the same.

29:01Ken Coleman:And so that's a huge part of this. And so boredom happens when, one or both of those are really off. And let's be honest with you, boredom happens when we're doing a job that takes very little effort. And so we're scrolling on social media or we're talking to our coworkers because there's just no challenge. There's no challenge mentally and there's no challenge emotionally. And that's what I was saying earlier. The mental challenge is obviously it's got to push me and I got to really lock in. But the emotional challenge too is like, do I actually give a crap? Does this work that I got to do actually, is it enjoyable for me?

29:41Hala Taha:And then does it create a result that I actually think is great?

29:45Ken Coleman:So if you put me on a spreadsheet, I'm telling you I'm dead because I'm not naturally good at spreadsheet and organization and all that stuff. And I could give a crap about organization. I got people around me who do all that, that are love an organization. I'm a creative. So the more I'm bouncing from thing to thing to thing, and I'm engaging with you, that's fun for me. So that's what boredom does. And so here's the deal. So to wrap this up, boredom will suck the soul right out of you. Because when a human being isn't challenged, then what happens is they begin to think that there is no challenge to be had, and you kind of just retreat and settle.

30:29Ken Coleman:And it can just remove all, it creates a lot of stress, by the way. That's what's crazy. The more bored you are, the more stress you have.

30:39Hala Taha:So interesting. And I know that you've been really passionate about helping people with their careers for years now. You have multiple books under your belt related to careers. And I read a quote from you that I want to read. You said, we are all souls and we are created to contribute. And if you don't contribute something that matters to you, then there's something missing. And so we talked a bit about challenge, but talk to us about meaning. Why do we have to have meaning in our work?

31:06Ken Coleman:Because we are spirits. And I don't care where you come from in the world, what your religion is, what your political affiliation is, strip all of that away. And the one commonality that all humans have is somewhere along the way in our journey, we all wonder, what should I do with my life? And then we also think, what's the contribution I'm making? And we all kind of want to make our mark. And I just think that's the way we're created. I'll just leave it at that. I think it's just there. And nobody has to teach anybody to wonder that, because I think we all just want to make a difference. And I think all of us, no matter where we're from, race, creed, all of that stuff, and we're in a more divided world than ever.

31:51Ken Coleman:But I think if you're going to find one thing that humans can unify around is good, healthy people want to help others. They just want to help others. So that is the issue. And so when we look at this innate desire to make a difference, make a mark, you can say it 80 different ways, then we realize meaning matters so much. I'll give you an example. Throughout history, we've seen dictators, evil people, use meaningless work as torture? I mean, multiple civilizations, just go do your homework. You can pick any time of history, you know, certainly not modern history, but I mean, I know of right now, I know of countries around the world where people are just pounding rocks to pay off debts.

32:44Ken Coleman:Now, they're selling those rocks, so that's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about literally meaningless work as torture. So that's a fascinating thing because it's like, if there's no meaning behind it, you're like, why am I doing this? And that's psychological torture, not physical torture. And it's fascinating. And so why is that? Because we as humans, we're creatures of progress. So if I'm not, here's the dangerous slope. If I'm not doing work that matters to me, I eventually start to wonder if my job matters. And then it gets really scary. I start to wonder if I matter. So I think that that's the reason why meaning matters.

33:27Ken Coleman:By the way, the data from Gallup shows up all the time. You know, one of the three human needs that Gallup said that workers have to have met, one of them is meaning and purpose in their work. Two is recognition for their unique contribution. And three is a relationship with their leader. Now, here's what's funny. Those three needs, those are all heart stuff. And that just shows our humanness.

33:52Hala Taha:Yeah. So related to this point, I think the average age of my listeners is 35, 37. And that's not young. It's not old. It's sort of in the middle. And I'm sure there's a lot of people tuning in that are like, man, like, I feel like my job is meaningless. I feel like my life is meaningless. But I feel like I'm too old to make a change. I always say, like, you're never too old to start something new. I started my podcast pretty late considering, you know. How old were you? I was 30 years old when I started my podcast.

34:25Ken Coleman:Oh, yeah. That's great.

34:26Hala Taha:And I did so much in the last five years, you know. I, like, basically dominated the industry in five years. So like a lot, I had a lot of experience in radio and other things before that. So I started with a head start, but still like I got a lot accomplished in that short amount of time. And a lot of people don't realize that in five years you could do so much. So talk to us about that. Is there really an age where it's too late to start thinking about a new career?

34:53Ken Coleman:No, I think you're right. Here's what I've told people when I've coached them on this, because I've had people in their late fifties. I had a lady call my show recently. It was 61. So here's what I told her. I said, it's not too late. The only thing that you've got to adjust is it's not too late to start something new, but the amount of time you have to do that thing is shorter. But you've got plenty of time to start it and do it. You just don't have as much time to stay in it as a 25-year-old, right? At least that needs to be the expectation. But let's also be honest, you know, certainly don't want to freak anybody out here.

35:32Ken Coleman:but this is the kind of thing that you and I talk about and that we do. You know, you're not promised tomorrow. You could be 25 and something awful happened to you, completely out of your control, and you don't make it to 30. So from that standpoint, you know, it's like to the 20-something, let's get after it. Don't put all this pressure on you to figure it out in your 20s, but do what Holla did, do what I did. Go do something and work your way up. So to that older person, it's not too late. The only mindset adjustment here is, all right, If I'm starting at X date, then I don't have the runway that I would have had much younger.

36:06Ken Coleman:So what am I going to do? I'm going to have proper expectations. And so you just measure reality with your timeline of life and go, I may not be able to do this, this, this, this, this, and this, but I can do this and this. And I think that's how you go, all right, the time I have left from this point on, I'm going to do something that matters to me. And here's what's cool about this. A hospice nurse in Australia wrote a bestselling book about the regrets of the dying. And one of the top five was I didn't live the life that I truly wanted to live. And so I'm a guy that preaches reminiscing over regretting.

36:46Ken Coleman:And so at 55 or 65, you still got some time, go do it. So that you can look back at least on a certain period of your life and go, I am so glad that I did that. And not regret that you never took a shot.

36:59Hala Taha:And also doing it in a smart way, like, for example, using your books and your assessments and things to make sure you know your strengths, you know your passions, you know your mission, and you know what is a likely path that you'll succeed at rather than sort of just going at it willy -nilly without a plan. So this is a great segue into some of your work. So before we get into your new book, it's called Get Clear Career Assessment. I'd love to touch on some of your previous works. Sure. In 2019, you wrote about the proximity principle. And you say that can change everything people thought about they knew pursuing a career that they love.

37:36Hala Taha:So what do my young and profiter's need to know about the proximity principle?

37:40Ken Coleman:Yeah, we'll start with what the principle is and then what it does. The principle says this, in order to do what I want to do, you can fill in the blank there, I've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. Young Hala did this. She thought she wanted to be a singer. So what did she do? She went to the place where they were playing all the songs. And that was a brilliant move, right? Now, your idea changed. But again, what's interesting is that you've also could have used the radio as that idea of this is the right place. So the proximity principle is about people and places.

38:13Ken Coleman:The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. In other words, if you're constantly getting around the right people, people that are in the space that you want to be in or similar to the space that you think you want to be in, that proximity is just there. I think your life is actually a wonderful example of this. And you talked about it earlier. Because you were in proximity, you pointed it out, it wasn't that big of a departure. You are in fact a performer. You're a top-notch performer. You may only sing for friends and family now, which by the way, I'd love to hear you sing. I think your audience would too.

38:50Ken Coleman:There might need to be a single coming out later. But anyway, that's my ADHD flaring up. But I think that the issue here is if I understand that being around the right people is going to allow me to meet more of the right people, being around the right people, they're going to point me to the right places. I go to the right places. I see, I learn, I observe. Oh, by the way, I connect with more of the right people over here. And so what you've got is if I were going to draw it up, it would be an arrow here, an arrow here, and we'd have the right people in the right places. And it becomes this cyclical process of learning, doing, and connecting.

39:26Ken Coleman:That's what it spits out. And that formula equals opportunity to where, if you do it right, people will knock on your door. In fact, some of the coolest experiences I got in my career where I got huge opportunities were because of proximity. I was the second option, but they needed another option. But the only reason they thought of me is because I was in the orbit, if you will. So in order to do what I want to do, I got to be around people that are doing it in places where it is happening. In other words, if I'm around the right people and in the right places, the right time will happen on its own.

39:59Hala Taha:Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that concept so much. I can think about my past experiences and I know that's true. Like figuring out podcasting, it's like going to all the podcast conferences, trying to get podcast mentors, taking calls with every single podcast company and trying to understand what everybody does. That's how you become the top of your field. It's like - I'm curious.

40:21Ken Coleman:Can I flip it on you? Yeah. Because your audience loves you. They're here for you. I'm just like the guy guesting today. I'm curious, how did the proximity principle play into your specific story where you actually got the gig you got now? Like it led to the show that's rocking it and you had this meteoric growth. I'm curious, what was your situation?

40:42Hala Taha:There's so much that goes into it. But I mean, first, to your point, getting that job at Hot 97, I thought I was going to be a singer, ended up learning the ropes of radio, took every opportunity that I could, where if the DJs wanted me to blog, I was blogging. If they wanted me to come to a party, I was going to the party. If they wanted me to sell showcase tickets and host a showcase, I was doing that. So I was taking my opportunity B avenues is what I call them and getting all these experiences. Also, wasn't afraid. I'm a type of person that, you know, isn't afraid of going out on my own. So I started a blog site, but I didn't start it on my own.

41:20Hala Taha:I recruited other women that were in the entertainment industry. So people who worked at Def Jam and iHeart and VH1 and then worked with them and learned from them and started this blog site. Uh, then I went into corporate. That's a whole other story. I had like a ghost period of four years where I just didn't think I was going to make it. I got rejected from satellite radio, MTV. I almost had a show on MTV. So it was like sort of like a dark period. But then I started my podcast. And when I started in the podcast industry, I really, once I decided that I was going to like really do this, I just tried to learn from everyone.

41:58Hala Taha:So for example, Jordan Harbinger, who's one of the biggest podcasters in the world. He's one of my best friends. He's my podcast mentor. He came on my show. And when he came on my show, I didn't just leave it at that. I was like, what can I do for you? Can I write your commercials for you? Can I show you how I'm growing my podcast? Can I show you that? Because he's sort of old school. And I was like this new school podcaster. So I was trying to teach him stuff. So he would give me the time of the day. And then finally, he was like, wow, like you're really onto some stuff. Like I'll teach you how to grow your show the way that I know, and you can teach me how to grow your show the way that you know.

42:32Hala Taha:And I was just doing things for free to get him as a mentor. So that was like one of my first big breaks because he taught me all the secrets of growing the show, of shows traditionally, right? And then when I started my network, it was like, how can I, I literally started a podcast network, have never joined a network, no idea how podcast networks work. So I would just take all these calls with all these agencies. And I would just act like I knew what I was talking about, but try to investigate like, what the hell are they doing? And pieced it together, going to all these conferences and just trying to meet everybody until I figured it all out.

43:09Hala Taha:It's all to your point. It's like, how do you just get in contact with people who know what they're doing and work for free for them, ask them lots of questions, do favors for them so that they help you in return. So hopefully that was a good example.

43:24Ken Coleman:It is. No, I mean, that is the principle living it out. Throughout the whole story, I could have just circled while you were talking, I could have pressed pause and circled right people. Then I could have said, right, like we've heard of Jordan was the right person. These women from Def Jam and these massive companies, right people, you know, showing up to podcasts, come right places. So yeah, it's a simple little idea. And honestly, I didn't expect the book to do as well as it did. I was just trying to simplify the climb. Yeah. Like if you just keep showing up around the right people in right places, good stuff's going to happen.

43:57Ken Coleman:It's not romantic. Yeah. It's not even, it's not even that, it's not even a, it's just simple. But most people in today's world, they want to fast forward everything because we see a lot of unbelievable fast stories. And those are rare. Those are rare people, you know, because you look like a fast story. Because if you just look at your bio, and look at your, it's like, so all these young women could look at you and go, that's what I want to do. She did it. I want to do it. I can do it. And I'd go, okay, that's true. But are you aware of what she did that's not in the bio?

44:37Hala Taha:Yeah.

44:37Ken Coleman:That led to everything that she was able to stack together that then let her go like this. And so, you know, it's like the challenge for young people, and I was young once, okay? So I'm like the dad on this podcast. I don't mind.

44:54Hala Taha:You're still young.

44:55Ken Coleman:Thank you. I'm older than you probably realize. But here's what I want you to hear. I was like the young. So this is not a knock on young people. And I can't stand when people, you know, crap on the younger generations like millennials and Gen Z. It bothers me to no end. Here's the thing. The thing about being young is that you don't understand how long things take. And then you realize, wait a second, successful people, they're willing to do what it takes. Because a lot of you are going, I'll do what it takes. I'll do what Hala did. Okay. But you also waited as long as it took. That doesn't mean you were sitting around because waiting, by the way, is not a passive posture.

45:37Ken Coleman:It's actually a mature posture. In other words, you get up, you were busting at that radio station, you were going out here doing this, hanging out. I love that on this conversation, you've mentioned work for free, I think, five times. And I can't wait to interview you about that. It's going to be a huge theme because that is a very controversial position in the world of TikTok. Because we've got a lot of snowflakes that freak out over that. But what they don't understand is that Hala was willing to wait as long as it took. In other words, she kept showing up, showing up, showing up, showing up, doing this, doing that, meeting this, learning this.

46:14Ken Coleman:And waiting is an active posture. It is, I'm going to keep showing up, doing what it takes, knowing that if I keep showing up, the right time is going to find me. And that's your story.

46:26Hala Taha:It's your story, too.

46:27Ken Coleman:Yeah, well, it's every successful woman and man. Every one of them, they don't quit. They keep showing up. And then we look at their story and we go, oh, you know, wow, right place, right time. Bull. They were in the right place and then the right time found them. And so are you willing to do what it takes? If I wait on the street with a camera crew, they all, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I say, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? So that means are you willing to show up for five years, seven years, nine years? not many people are.

46:59Hala Taha:Yeah. Amazing. Well, let's talk about your 2021 release. It was called Paycheck to Purpose, another bestseller. And in it, you talked about talent, passion, and mission. And this is a theme that even now you talk a lot about, talent, passion, mission. So can you define those three words in your own words and tie it all together?

47:19Ken Coleman:Yeah. Talent is what we do best. Passion is what we love to do most. And mission are the results. Mission is that result that we care deeply about putting into the world. So if I use what I do best, talent, to do what I love, passion, to produce results that matter to me, mission, I am by definition on purpose doing what I'm supposed to do, doing what I can uniquely do. You know, the reason I came up with that methodology is through coaching people and I was trying to help them see there's a formula here. The answer to what should I do with my life lies in those three things. What are you good at?

47:57Ken Coleman:What do you enjoy doing? What results move your heart? Okay, so for instance, an activist, their heart is angered. Their heart is broken. Angered by an atrocity. Broken for the people that are the victims. And so their heart moves them to that kind of work. Your heart, my heart, probably very, very similar, right? Our heart is about achievement and influence. Like we want to help people. We want to help people win here. Mediocrity is our enemy, right? And so when we understand that last piece mission, the results that motivate me, we tap into the magic of motivation. So talent, those are the tools so that we can do work that we enjoy, we love.

48:39Ken Coleman:We look forward to the work. We get in it when you were singing, when you were on the air, when we're doing this right now, you and I really, really enjoy this communication piece, this learning, this digging. How can I learn from? How can I pass this on? But the last piece is so important to understand intrinsic motivation, and that's a sense of mission. We all have it. In other words, the person who gets up at 5 a.m. in the morning to work out does it only because they want to. My teenage boys, Hala, only clean their room because they have to. Do you see the difference? I say to them, you're not going out with your friends this weekend until this bathroom doesn't look like a crime scene.

49:18Ken Coleman:Like, clean it up. You know what I mean? And what do they do? And then they do it, but that's extrinsic motivation. They do it to avoid punishment or to get something they want that is going to be withheld from them. So the person who gets up for the reward itself just because they want to, that's the idea. So those are the three elements. And that's when we can see that about ourselves, that's when we get true self-awareness.

49:42Hala Taha:Yeah.

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54:30Hala Taha:That's H-U-E-L.com slash Y-A-P 15, Huel.com slash YAP15. New customers only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show. So your latest book, it's Get Clear Career Assessment, Find the Work That You're Wired to Do. You already put out two books about careers. So why did you feel the need to release this new book?

54:49Ken Coleman:Because this is actually just a manual. It became a bestseller, but we actually wrote this to get the assessment on Amazon. And so it was because I wanted to have more distribution because you can't sell a digital product on Amazon. So kind of a fun lesson here. You got to do what you got to do. And the assessment actually measures those three components. So I'm glad you asked me that. Paycheck to Purpose was providing that kind of seven stages of what it looks like to get on top of your professional mountain. And we do it all through getting clear as that first step. Well, I developed an assessment because I wanted to give people a tool that in about 18 to 20 minutes, you could get a direct report of the world of talent.

55:32Ken Coleman:This is your top three. And then here's where you're above average. In the world of passion, the types of work, here's where your top three are. Here's where you're above average. And your missional results, there's six driving missions from the world of psychology. I just adopted that. And it kind of tell you, this is your primary motivator. And so you get a deep dive report in those three areas. Then we put your top results in a purpose statement that is essentially like a job description for you, a dream job description where you can lay it over the world of work and go, does this career path, does this job allow me to spend most of my day, let's call it 75 % of my day, using what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce results I care about.

56:17Ken Coleman:That's as simple as it gets. And the assessment does that. And it's a fabulous tool. It's not a personality profile. You notice I didn't talk about personality. It's not going to predict some career for you because that's crap, junk science. Can't do that. No assessment can. But what it does is give you self-awareness. And self-awareness is a superpower. because when I can see who I really am and what I have to offer to the world, that clarity will lead to confidence, and confidence will give you courage when you step out and life throws something at you. Courage just isn't this thing that we can will up.

56:56Ken Coleman:It must come from a place of clarity and confidence, and so that's why we created the tool. The book itself, It's about a 45-minute read, and all it does is catches you right at your assessment results. The Get Clear assessment will give you what I just described, and the book is written as though I'm coaching you. So how do we take this purpose statement and start to ideate, well, what can I do professionally? Is it medicine? And so we pick up with those questions I gave you earlier, people I want to help, problem or desire they have. And so the little book is more of a companion to the assessment.

57:27Ken Coleman:So that's why we wrote it. Honestly, didn't expect it to be a bestseller. Just wanted to get the tool out. And so here we stand, and I'm getting an opportunity to talk about what I think is life-changing methodology. Yeah. Because it's just, it's self-awareness. And here's what I would say to young people. Everybody's chasing greatness. And I think that's misguided. I want you to chase uniqueness. Because it is in your uniqueness that your greatness lies.

57:55Hala Taha:Oh, I love that.

57:57Ken Coleman:You know what I mean? and because it's your contribution.

58:00Hala Taha:Yeah, this is so good for anybody who's thinking about making a career change. So again, I think one of the biggest fears is like, oh, I don't wanna waste more time. Well, you stop wasting time by having a plan and having self-awareness and kind of thinking through things and not just shooting in the dark, right? So I highly recommend this for everyone. But this is an actionable advice podcast. So what are some questions that people can ask themselves to understand what their core talents are.

58:28Ken Coleman:Yeah. What have people always complimented me on? How do I wow others? You know, let's just rewind, hit the rewind button and ask those very practical questions because there's evidence, you know? Now, by the way, and I wanna recognize something. For people who have had a lot of trauma and a really tough life, this will take some time to keep asking. But for most of us who've had a relatively healthy life and not, you know, overwhelmed by challenge. There's going to be multiple times where you can pull up answers. How I wow others. What people say about me when they compliment me. You know, these are basic questions that will reveal right away.

59:06Ken Coleman:Oh, well, there's a pattern here.

59:08Hala Taha:And something that I love in this book that you talk about is super talents, which is something that I've never heard of. So what's the difference between a talent and a super talent?

59:16Ken Coleman:Super talents are the things that I'm excellent at just absolutely through experience or education or just pure nature. I'm excellent. I mean, I'm up here. And that's what we give in the assessment, your top three. That's where we call those your super talents. Now, that indicates that below that are some solid talents. Let's use a simple analogy, one being suck, 10 being great. Okay. If you were an eight or a nine or a 10, I'd call that a super talent. If you were a six or a seven, I'd call that a solid talent in the form of if I get more education, more experience, I put some hard work in and I really hone my craft, then I can become super.

59:56Ken Coleman:I'll just be real personal. Yeah.

1:00:00Hala Taha:What are your super talents? I write.

1:00:01Ken Coleman:So in my world, I write books. I write articles. I give keynotes. I do monologues on a show every day. I coach people live in front of thousands of people, just me and a mic, and it's kind of just, woo, or I'm on the air and I got eight minutes. So that's what I do. Of those things that I do in my super talents, it would be the discernment and coaching piece. When I'm on the spot and I'm listening to somebody and I'm asking and digging, I'm really, really good at that. The other thing that is a super talent for me is the actual interview themselves. You know, when I'm interviewing people and pulling stuff out of them, if I'm honest, and I am, and by the way, I get feedback from my team, my solid talent on that list is the keynote.

1:00:48Ken Coleman:I'm good. I'm a good speaker. I'm not great. I'm working to become great. And that's my own analysis and also feedback. I think you got to be honest about that. Writing, same deal. Good writer, not a great writer. So that's the difference between a super talent. Now I can get better at the speaking and have, and I can get better at writing, and I have, but I still got more work to do. Whereas the other ones, just from my natural talent, and I've had more time. I've got more experience in the other two with the interviews and coaching people than I did with the speaking and writing. So what do you do?

1:01:26Ken Coleman:You get better at it, but then you also hire really good editors so that I can take what I'm good at, which is a monologue. By the way, I'm better at monologues than I am a 40-minute keynote. I'm better at the quick. Here's three points. So you go, okay, I need help over here with the writing. So I'm going to go hire really talented writers to edit my stuff and coach me and say, you're missing this here. You're not weaving this in. This needs a story. This is a little too kind of nebulous, kind of out there. You need to simplify this for the reader, you know, because I don't, I can't do that for myself.

1:02:01Ken Coleman:So I hope that answers your question. I think that's the difference. and in my own life. So I got to pay attention to that.

1:02:08Hala Taha:Yeah, totally. And it sounds like you're not focusing on your weaknesses at all. It sounds like you're just trying to strengthen your talents and your super talents. And are you focused on your weaknesses at all?

1:02:19Ken Coleman:Only to the fact that when we have a new team member join, like we just got a new associate producer on my team and she's awesome. And on our first meeting, I spent 10 minutes trashing everything that I do that's awful. And she was laughing and she really enjoyed it. and it did two things. Number one, it let her know that I'm aware of these things that I suck at. Being on time, details, can't ever find my own keys in my house. God bless my wife. And I'm just, I'm really open about it. So I'm only focused on it to tell everybody that I work with, number one, I'm weak in this area. Number two, I'm aware of it.

1:02:54Ken Coleman:And number three, in order for us to work well, both of us need to be aware of this. And the reason that you're hired is because you're actually strong where I am weak. So understand our job as a team for each other, not just for Ken. This isn't all about Ken. All of us have got to say, this is where I'm weak. And to the extent that we remove stuff off of our plate and move it to someone else's plate, we delegate, we hire for it, or we eliminate it altogether. So yes, I'm not focused on it, but I'm super aware of my weaknesses. And my life, by the way, is organized. I use that loosely because I'm not very organized.

1:03:33Ken Coleman:But my life is structured probably in a way. And I've got a team where, again, I operate in my strengths all day long, which is really, really rewarding.

1:03:42Hala Taha:And it's freeing.

1:03:43Ken Coleman:By the way, it's freeing to just go, I suck at this. Because by the way, your team already knows.

1:03:47Hala Taha:But by the way, it's because you focus on your strengths to become the top of your field. So you could get a team to help you with everything else.

1:03:56Ken Coleman:That's a great point. That's the beauty. It's like, in Western, I don't know. and I'm going to bang on the Western Hemisphere because I'm a Western Hemisphere product so I can make fun of it. I don't see this in the Eastern Hemisphere. I really don't. This is a Western way of thinking. And I'm not trying to philosophize. Just hang with me, folks. Western thinking is we go to school from kindergarten through 12th grade, and then it's college. And it's largely the same system. We memorize and we regurgitate and they grade us on what we get wrong. So your whole life, you've been conditioned to be afraid of getting anything wrong.

1:04:31Ken Coleman:So what happens is that translates to your weaknesses. You experience a weakness as you begin to go to school or you try out for an extracurricular activity and you begin to experience weakness. You go, oh, I got to fix that weakness instead of going, I suck at playing the clarinet. I should probably not play the clarinet.

1:04:48Hala Taha:So true.

1:04:49Ken Coleman:Do you know what I mean? But we've been conditioned by a Western thinking to work on your weaknesses. And here's what's crazy. That's not a thing in the real world of work. I don't care what hemisphere you're in. Yeah, it's so good.

1:05:00Hala Taha:So let's go a little bit broader and talk about the jobs economy in general. And also for some of the entrepreneurs and business owners who listen to the show, I'd love to understand how we can translate some of this into empowering our employees. So first off, I got to talk about AI. I've been doing so many AI episodes lately. And a topic that keeps coming up is AI and jobs. So how do you think about AI's impact on jobs and what people need to think about?

1:05:27Ken Coleman:I don't think AI is going to change jobs any more than Apple change jobs or pick another technology, right? It's just the internet. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, anytime in our history where we've had a major technological advancement, has it eliminated some jobs? Yeah. Well, yeah. But what did it do? It spun off more. And so I actually think that AI is going to spin off jobs that you and I can't even imagine and create in our heads right now. I think the job market that my 15-year-old daughter is going to experience is we don't even know, can't even describe it. So I'm not afraid of AI.

1:06:13Ken Coleman:I would say this. I've talked to Chris Doe, who I think is one of the great minds on AI. I had him on my show, and I just asked him, and I'll tell you what he told me. He said, AI, we can't forget that AI's effectiveness is completely predicated on the human who programs it. So AI's ability to do anything is based on a human programming it to do that thing. And I think that I'm less concerned about AI replacing your job. I'd be more concerned about a person who works really well with AI replacing your job. I think that – so I still think it's the human component. And so, for instance, I do believe the experts that say you're going to see a pretty good percentage of clerical jobs maybe go away because they can program AI to do all the customer service.

1:07:03Ken Coleman:And we're already seeing in the hiring process where there's AI software where a human's not even involved sometimes in the second – even until the second or third level of a job interview. So is it going to create efficiencies? Yes, but you will still need the human-to-human contact. So I'm not scared of AI from a work standpoint. AI as it relates to warfare, that freaks me out. But that's not what we're here to talk about. But that freaks me out. AI in the world of work, no, it's not going to be a bunch of machines doing the work and the rest of us are sitting around eating Cheetos. I don't think that's going to happen.

1:07:37Hala Taha:Yeah, I think your internet example was so good. I mean, if I think about my job now, it's literally 100 % based on the internet. There's nothing else. I don't even have any office or anything. It's just, so it's so good. Okay, let's talk about companies and employers. So something that I've noticed, I have 60 people on my team now. I've been running my company for like four years and some of the rock stars that I had in my company that used to be rock stars, and I love them still. They're still great, but just giving it as an example. Sure. Star players four years ago, four years later, as we've grown so much as a company, I feel like they're struggling to stay developed, right?

1:08:18Hala Taha:Or evolve with the company. So I sort of see some star players that two years ago, strongest players on the team. Now I'm like, oh, you guys are struggling suddenly and you're not keeping up. How can we develop our employees and help them develop their strengths and skills? Like what can we be doing as bosses?

1:08:37Ken Coleman:Yeah. Really good question. Let me give a quick context and then maybe dive into the specifics. I may ask you a couple of questions to fully answer this. First, we've got to understand as leaders and founders specifically that there are a good amount of people who got you there who won't get you to the next level. It is very natural for companies to outgrow some of the key people who actually were fundamental in getting them to this certain spot. But this comes back to, again, talent, passion, mission. If you look at the wiring of some of these people that may be struggling with you now that didn't struggle back here, some of it could be fit.

1:09:18Ken Coleman:So as the leader, you got to go, is this a fit issue to the point that there's another seat and I need to get them on another seat where they are now able to plug into the new version of our company? or do they simply just not have the right makeup for where the company is and where the company's going to go? That would be from an executive and a leadership analysis. That's my practical advice. And you got to be okay. And sometimes this really sucks. I mean, I've coached a lot of CEOs on this who I have to say, look, they just aren't built. They don't have it. They can't take you where you want to go.

1:09:57Ken Coleman:A silly example to try to drive this home. I'm big into sports, right? So it's like, it's like a college football coach comes in and he's replacing another coach who left and that coach ran a very different style of offense. And so they had different kinds of players. Maybe they were run based, big line, you know, big, big guys and it was like a power offense. And this guy comes in and he goes, we throw the ball all the time. So those first couple of years, you know got to do? He's got to go, which one of these kids can stay with me and adapt? And if they can't, I got to let them go. And I got to go recruit other players.

1:10:32Ken Coleman:That's the simple metaphor there that I think is the issue. To answer the second part of your question quickly, how do we develop our people? Well, number one, you got to know them. And I really like this methodology that I've shared. We were talking about people trying to find their own career, but from a leader standpoint, knowing what someone's talents are, knowing what their passions are, knowing what their motivating mission is, you kind of got yourself a profile here. And so then you go, okay, where can they grow? And let's look at their solid talents and let's show them, hey, I want to invest in you, or I'd like to see you invest in yourself here.

1:11:11Ken Coleman:This is where you've got some solid talents, but I think with some learning and doing, you can turn these into super talents. Yeah. That's the idea. Constant communication so that they have awareness. They also know that you care about them and you want them to get better because when they get better, their paycheck gets bigger. At least it should in a healthy company. So that's the idea.

1:11:30Hala Taha:Yeah. And it's a really smart thing to do as well because if you find out that maybe there isn't a place in your company now, it's the best thing for them to go to a company where they will thrive. And it's like part of being a boss is understanding that people aren't going to work for you forever and you can help guide them in their career. Okay, so last question. Okay. Two-part question, and then we'll round this interview out. What do you feel like are going to be the biggest challenges for employers when it comes to the workplace? And also, what are the biggest opportunities?

1:12:05Ken Coleman:Biggest challenge is retention. We just are in a day and age coming out of the pandemic. where we saw so many people job hop. There's this tension in the workplace right now between coming back to work. We're actually back to pre-pandemic levels on people working in the office. So those numbers have shrunk back. And so there's this tension because a lot of people still want to work remote. Remote's drying up as a percentage. Hybrid is still there. I think hybrid will be the dominant model going forward. But we're in this weird tension. So retention is everything. to your point, people aren't going to stay with you forever, but to the extent that we can keep good people longer, then we're going to see productivity and profitability go.

1:12:51Ken Coleman:And that's the key to winning. And that's the competitive advantage is people keeping good people longer. And so then the opportunity there is engagement. The single most important factor to retention is engagement. If people don't want to be there, they won't want to lead there. and so you're hoping to develop leaders from within. It doesn't mean you have to. You can recruit from outside, but we want to create a culture where people want to be there and people want to be there if they aren't engaged. What does engagement look like? Well, I hate to keep singing the same note, but it's true. They need to be spending three-fourths of their day using what they do best to do what they enjoy to produce results that matter.

1:13:37Ken Coleman:It's your job to get them in a seat on the bus where that's the case. Here's what's going to happen. They're going to be really, really engaged because they're going to enjoy it. Think about that. That's not a bad day. Okay. And so that's what keeps them coming back because there's true fulfillment. Oh, by the way, there's proficiency because they're good at it. And the fulfillment comes in with the love of the work and the work creates a result that they care about. Now, after that, you've got to care for them. Two questions you're asking every week in a one-on-one, how are you doing? That's a personal thing.

1:14:12Ken Coleman:Like, Holla, I know your dog's been struggling. That's got to be tough. She's going to make it. You know, whatever's going on in their personal life, know enough about them where they go, but do you need to take a day? Take a day. Go be with the sweet pup, you know, until you get a figure. That's real leadership. How are you doing? It's a personal question. Now, Now, they're not going to give you that right away, but you ask it enough and you show them that you care about them, they begin to tell you what's going on. And for the purposes of not creeping or overstepping, but just they know that you care about them and you'll give them what they need as a person so they're not dragging stress from home into the office.

1:14:47Ken Coleman:That's key. Second question is, what can I do to help you win in your job? What can I do for you so you can win? That second question, they'll begin to tell you that the more you ask the first question Because until they know you care, they won't trust you enough to go, well, I don't feel like my training was long enough and I'm struggling here. If I got a little bit more training on that, I could turn the corner and I could crush it. But that's a really tough thing for people to share. That's a vulnerability. So I think that right there is where you can get engagement because then people are saying, I'm cared for here.

1:15:25Ken Coleman:I'm valued here. I don't know if I'd get treated that way somewhere else. And that will lead to that loyalty and the longevity, which is what we want in engagement. I think that's the game changer.

1:15:37Hala Taha:I love all of this advice. You gave me so much to think about for my own company. I feel like when it comes to my career, I'm good there. But you're crushing it. All the things that you told me about just how other people need to think about their career for me and other entrepreneurs listening, I feel like probably was super, super insightful. So thank you so much for all of that. I end my show with two questions that I ask all my guests. You can steer away from the topic. It doesn't have to be about today's topic. Just answer from your heart. Okay. The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?

1:16:12Ken Coleman:Reflect at the end of every day on two questions. Where did I win and where did I lose?

1:16:19Hala Taha:So good. That sets you up for tomorrow and just really being present enough to go, hmm, what did I learn today about where I won and where I lost?

1:16:30Ken Coleman:And I think it's a game changer.

1:16:33Hala Taha:And what is your secret to profiting in life? And this can go beyond just money and business.

1:16:40Ken Coleman:Being the best version of me, and I've got multiple versions. I've got husband, dad, son, brother, friend, coworker. And if I can continually look to where can I be better in each of those roles, I'm truly profiting.

1:17:01Hala Taha:Well, Ken, you are awesome. Like I had so much fun in this conversation. You are so smart. You're so energetic. It was such a pleasure to interview you. Where can everybody go learn more about you and everything that you do?

1:17:12Ken Coleman:Yeah, thank you. Ken Coleman.com is the place to connect on all the things and really appreciate you and what you're doing. You are a bright star and you're a big screw you to all the people who said millennials were. They weren't the they were the generation that was going to be soft and all this. And millennials are the number one demographic in the workforce now. And you represent them well and you're crushing it. You're leading. And our economy depends on your generation. And I'm cheering you on.

1:17:41Hala Taha:Oh, thank you so much. Thanks so much for joining us.