Leila Hormozi: The Leadership Mindset That Changes How You Operate in Business and Life | Leadership | YAPClassic

22:35And so it was that night. I remember I told my friends, I said, you guys, I'm moving to California after I graduate. And they were like, what are you talking about? I was like, yeah, I've just decided. I like decided in that moment. And then I told everybody that night, I told everyone I'm moving to California after I graduate I'm moving to California after I got like and then that was it and so after I graduated that was the biggest that was one of the biggest if not the most like the unlock for my personal growth was I moved all the way across the country when I didn't know anybody I didn't really have a plan I didn't have anything over there waiting for me um and I didn't know how I was going to make money or how I was going to make it work and I'm like a young woman right like it's not like I'm like you know I'm 20 when I went over there.

23:16I think I was what, 21. And that was what stirred up so much for me because, you know, I think a lot of people like, tell me the books that you read. Tell me the stuff. What I did was I put myself in a situation where my back was against the wall and I was insanely uncomfortable, like to the point where like when I would move there, I remember on a weekly basis having panic attacks. I didn't know anybody. I didn't have any support system. I didn't know how I was going to make money. I mean, it was terrifying. And not to mention, I bought or I signed a lease for an apartment online that ended up being like in the ghetto with like hard wire on the fence and shit.

23:50I get there and I'm like, I can't even walk in my own neighborhood. You know what I mean? And so it was a really unsettling experience. And I quickly learned, you know, that I had to make it work for myself. Nobody could do it for me. No amount of affirmations and mindset work was going to go do the work. And I think that that is where a lot of people go wrong is it's great to have positive things you say to yourself. It's important in much of a sense that you talk to yourself like you're your best friend. Yes. But if you take no action, none of that matters. And I think that a lot of the times nowadays, people are spending so much time in their heads.

24:28That's what I feel like this generation is doing. They spend more time in their heads than they do taking action. Feelings and beliefs can follow the action. If you can just get yourself to take action when you are scared shitless, you will change your thoughts and beliefs. You can act despite not believing it's going to work. And that is exactly what I did. I didn't know how I was going to make it work. You know, and I went, I applied and I worked at, I applied to every gym within walking distance of my apartment. And I got accepted all of them. But I was like, they're like, oh, you have a three month training program.

24:57You get paid like$9 an hour. And I was like, fuck no, I'm going to not be able to pay my rent. So I went to the only gym that was like, you can make money immediately, which was 24 hour fitness. And that was where I learned how to sell. But then you have to understand, I went there having only knowledge of like how to lose weight, nutrition, whatever I learned at college that didn't really matter. I go there and they're like, you need to go sell some shit if you want to make money. Like you go get your own clients. And I was like, oh shit. Again, my back's against the wall. I'm like, what do I do?

25:25Like, I'm not a salesperson. I never identified as a salesperson. I was like, the last thing for me, it kind of disgusted me even the word. And I was like, fuck, I have to, there's, what else am I going to do? And I remember the first time that I approached someone at the gym, I was terrified. And I went up to this woman. They were like, go talk to people on the ellipticals, on the gyms that you see not doing things right, whatever. Go try to get them to be your clients. And I went up to this woman. I was like, excuse me. And she was like, she looks at me. She stops. She goes, fuck off. And that was my first experience.

25:57It was just rejection from day one. And so it was really hard. But that feeling of stress and anxiety, I channeled into learning. I was like, I cannot, I won't, no amount of thinking is going to get me out of this situation. I need to learn these skills and I need to become this different person in order to get out of this situation. And so I took all that anxiety and all that stress, all that frenetic energy that I had, and I poured it into learning. I poured it into learning sales. I poured it into learning how to retain customers. I poured it into learning how to become a teammate because I didn't even know how to do that.

26:33Right. And that was what I spent a lot of my time doing. And so I think that a lot of the times when people are asking about self-development and personal development, I think that there's a piece missing, which is a lot of people believe that you have to have, you have to think a certain way and you have to believe something before you do it. And that's just never been the case in my life. If you had told me, like, did you believe you're going to make all this money by the age of 30? Fuck no. Like, no. And then they're like, do you believe that acquisition.com is going to become a billion? No.

27:04But but I'm doing it because I know logically that it makes sense and I'm capable.

27:09Hala Taha:Yeah. Does that make sense? 100%. It's like this small, consistent action, taking action. And I say something really similar. And I say it when it comes to rejection. I've been rejected a lot of times. Like I almost had a show on MTV. I got rejected. I almost was a host on Hot 97. I got rejected. I almost got rejected. It's serious. And I always say the reason how I became successful is every time I got rejected, I just channeled it into learning something new, just learning a new skill and getting amazing at it, you know, and that's what I did every time. And it sounds very similar to what you're saying.

27:41Hala Taha:So let's move on to your sales skills, because you said that you knew nothing about sales when you went to California, but you ended up being the top selling personal trainer in your region, I think within a year, right? If you didn't have any sales experience previously, you said you got it from experience. I guess, what would you say your top things that you learned as a salesperson during that time was? Because now you've carried that skill and used it in multiple ways throughout your career. Yeah. I think that there's two things. Because, you know, Alex and I, when we met, for example, like we both had sales aptitude, but we sell completely differently.

28:17And I know that because we sold side by side for a year with each other. And our conversations sound completely different. And we both had like around the same closing rate. I can sell things and most people can sell things that they believe in, right? And so I think that a lot of times people are trying to, like, if you look at the mechanics of sales, we're trying to fake belief. Like salespeople, sales training is often faking belief in the product. When I think I found a product that I believed in, which was personal training, nutrition, you know, losing weight. Like I truly believed in that.

28:51And that was the first thing. And that's why I advise a lot of salespeople that reach out to me. They're like, I just, I'm not getting it. I'm like, do you believe in the product? And they're like, fundamentally, no, I'm actually, you know, it's like, a vegan selling meat or something. Like it's just fundamentally doesn't match with their belief systems. The first step is that you have to make sure that you are being integrous, which means like what you think, what you say and what you do are all aligned. And so for me, the one thing that I realized by speaking with different people, especially I think my boss at that time, he was a sales manager.

29:19He was really good. He was like, Layla, do you believe in this? And I was like, absolutely. He's like, well, then why do you not feel convicted to try and get people to buy it? And that was the unlock for me was if you believe in something and you really know it's the right option and the best option for somebody, I'm obligated to try and get them to buy it. Because I'm thinking, I'm like, what other options do they have? Not many, right? Like this is the way that it actually has to go. It's the hardest and it's the most expensive, but it's definitely the best. And so I think that it was the first one is having integrity about the product that you're selling, which sounds super cheesy.

29:54It's not tactical at all. But a lot of people are very misaligned. You'd be surprised if you don't have people that message me and they say, I'm just not selling. And then I say, do you even believe in the thing? They switch jobs and then they're the top closer. And that was the first thing for me was I had done it myself. I had lost all the weight. I had seen how it changed my life. It's not hard to preach that to other people. It's not hard to try and sell someone that because I would if it wasn't paid.

30:15Hala Taha:Yeah. Right. Yeah. That was the first thing. Yeah. You need that conviction so you have the confidence when you're selling. Otherwise, people can just see right through you. 100%. And if you really believe in it, the conviction comes naturally. You don't have to fake it. But the second thing that I did learn that was a skill was having the right frame for the conversation. Because a lot of people who really believe in a product are still people pleasing while they're trying to sell. And so because they're trying to get that person to like them rather than trying to get that person to buy or to make a decision, that's what they're really doing right.

30:48They want the person to like them more than they want the person to buy or make a decision. And so they're trying to tiptoe around it. I had to make that frame shift. And I realized I have to be the authority. Just like, you know, if someone's the leader in a business, you're not going to be liked all the time. It's important, though, that you're able to positively influence people in the business. Does that mean they're always going to like you for it? No. But will they be better for it? Yes. It's the same in sales. And so I had to learn how to develop more confidence and more of an authoritative frame within myself, how I spoke, how I led, how I led the conversation.

31:20I didn't let them lead the conversation. That was the biggest unlock for me was realizing that I have to be the one leading them through the conversation. I'm the authority in this conversation. And I should be because I actually give a shit.

31:32Hala Taha:Yeah. Like who better to be an authority than someone who actually cares about the person on the other side? Yeah. So it's like telling them something like the truth, even though it hurts and it's not going to make you the most liked person, but it's going to help them accomplish their goal. I can't tell you. I mean, a man could never say this to a woman during consultation, but the amount of times I said, when's the last time you had sex with the lights on to a woman? Because I knew she didn't because I wouldn't have either when I was fat. Nobody wants to see that. You don't want to see it yourself.

32:01I was like, when's the last time that you like put on clothing in front of a mirror? Because they don't. If someone's that overweight, they don't even look in a mirror. So it's those questions that though they hurt and they don't feel good in the moment, I was like, that is what's going to make someone, that's what's going to get someone to make a decision that's going to better their life. And I think the difference between manipulation and influence is manipulation is getting someone to do something that's detrimental to themselves, whereas influence is getting someone to do something that is beneficial for themselves and in line with their own personal goals and autonomy.

32:29And that's what I, that was really the one piece that I needed to succeed in sales was understanding that I was the authority and I had all the evidence to, you know, back that I should be the authority. And I also had the give a shit where it made sense to me to be.

32:45Hala Taha:Yeah, makes total sense. Great advice.

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34:46Hala Taha:Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One. Offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. So let's talk about your agenda at one point to find a man, right? I heard a story, I've heard you say the story that you were doing a bumble date every single weekend because you realized that dating was sort of a volume game. And then you met Alex. So I'd love to hear that story. Yeah. So I'll tell you how it started, which was I actually worked at 24 and my boss at that time, who was a sales manager, he was like, I told him, I was like, I got on, you know, Tinder and Bumble.

35:27I was like, Tinder's disgusting, but Bumble seems fine. And he was, I remember I said like, you know, I'm going to try and go on a date every couple of weeks, something, something. And he said, you know, Layla, he's like, I think dating is a lot like sales. I was like, how? He's like, well, I think it's a numbers game. Like think about how many consults you have to have with somebody in order to get a client. I was like, yeah. He's like, well, how many dates do you think you have to go on in order to get somebody to be a boyfriend? Maybe even more. Interesting. And he's like, and I remember he said this, he's like, don't you think that dating would be very good practice for sales.

35:57And I was like, how so? He's like, well, you're meeting strangers. You're having to basically sell yourself to them and you're in uncomfortable situations. And I was like, huh. So he essentially sold me on this concept. And so I said, okay, well, how do I, how do I work leads right now in my sales job? Okay. I'm just going to do that. But for dating, which was, you know, I had a time set aside every day where it was like for an hour, I called all the leads and whatever, maybe more than an hour. and I would bang the phones. So I said, okay, what can I commit to for dating? I have my lunch break every day.

36:29It's minimum 30 minutes. I will just literally swipe and do nothing but swipe while I eat for 30 minutes. And so that was what I did. And that was what I promised myself. I said, my goal is to get a date a week if I swipe for 30 minutes. And so that's what I did. And I started going on dates and a lot of them sucked. Like I had one guy try and sneak me into a movie theater, not telling me because he didn't want to pay. I had like another guy who took me to a dinner and then told me he wished I wouldn't talk. I mean, like I had so many bad dates. The difference was that I didn't let it discourage me from going on another one.

37:03And so I talked to a lot of women now and they asked me about this and they're like, listen, Layla, I did that for three months. I'm like, girl, I did that for 18 months. Like get back to me when you've swiped every day for 30 minutes, gone on 60 dates, and then tell me what you think. And so I think that it really is, you know, just like you're looking for the ideal client, if you're in sales, dating is the same way, which is, you know, you have your criteria of what you're looking for, and you're going on dates trying to find it. And it's just a funnel that you're trying to continue to work through and through and through.

37:38And so honestly, I just took the same sales learnings that I had, I applied them to dating, and I just didn't give up. You know, I refuse, I'm like, I had enough confidence in myself at the time that I was like, there's somebody out there for me. Like, I know I'm a little weird and I'm a little different. You know, like I really like business. I really like working, but I was like, I will eventually find someone. And so I think having that, you know, knowing that that was the case and understanding that it was just a numbers game made it much easier to get through the emotional ups and downs. Because I think that if, if dating is just an emotional game for you, then you're going to stop because the moment you have a bad date, you're like, Oh, there's no boys out there for me.

38:14I'm like, shut the fuck up. I'm like, you're saying that half the population sucks? Please. Like, I hate when people say that. All men are horrible. I'm like, this is called cognitive bias. You are overgeneralizing. Your brain is saying, I had one bad boyfriend. Now all men are bad. That's not true at all. And then the second piece is understanding that I think a lot of people, what they do is they go on a few dates. Maybe they get in with a few people and maybe they date somebody for like a month or two and then they break up. And then they take the same amount of time that they dated the person to get over the person.

38:43And I think that a lot of that comes from social stigma of, oh, it takes you, you know, half the amount of time that you dated someone to get over them. I'm like, you know, the best way to get over somebody is to go on another date. Like, what do you do when you lose a client? You go get another client. Like, I just, I refuse to believe a lot of the things that society tells us. So I was like, am I actually upset about this person I dated for eight weeks? No, but I think I'm supposed to be upset. And I think that's what a lot of people do. And I think the reason I was able to go through very quickly and find somebody is because I didn't let that stuff stop me or drag me down or make the process take longer.

39:18Hala Taha:Yeah. So smart. And I have to say, Layla, I love your personality. You're so funny and just give such good advice. I love talking to you. I think the audience is going to love this conversation. So you met Alex, right? Talk to us about that first date. What was he like and what did you see in him? I mean, you had all these suitors and you decided on Alex. Honestly, it was tough because like, I'll be really real. And you've probably had this too or run into this as a woman who's ambitious. A lot of guys didn't like that. Yeah, 100%. A lot of men just wanted me to be a housewife. They wanted to have kids very soon and all these things.

39:55And I was like, that's just not in the cards for me.

39:57Hala Taha:Or they think they want it. And then they realize like, oh, she's going to be more successful than me. I don't know if I want it after. 100%. Yeah. So if it wasn't, oh, I don't want you to do this thing. It was, oh, I'll try and suppress you so that I'm better than you. Yep. which listen, I don't have anything against people who do that. I just don't want to be in a relationship with them. So when I met Alex, um, it was interesting because we matched on Bumble and then Alex, uh, I messaged him cause it had to be the girl. I don't even remember what I said. It probably is. I was so bad at it. I would be like, Hey, what's up?

40:29Like I never said anything cool. I was kind of nerdy. So I was like, Hey, you know, how's it going or something like that. And he messaged me. He was like, fuck this app. Let's get off this app. Can I call you? And I I was like, I like that. Like, somebody who's like serious about this, who takes it like literally. So we get on the phone. I remember the first thing he said, he was like, listen, he's like, this is basically like a first date. So what we're doing right now is we can have our first date now on the phone. And then later when we actually have a first date, we don't need to talk about all this stuff because we haven't talked about it.

40:55It'll be basically our second date. And I was like, this guy's efficient, which I like because that was kind of how I was running it as well. So I was like, this is a good match. And I remember feeling like, I don't really know. like this guy's kind of like blunt to the point harsh he's not really flirty but I appreciated it um and so we meet for fro-yo for our first date because it's low commitment so we could leave if we didn't like each other that was that was the agreement um and we go and I'm sitting there waiting for him and he comes up from behind me and I remember he was like okay like not smiling And I was like, what?

41:31Is this guy not even smiling at me? Turns out, so what some people don't know, is I have an entire back piece. And I was wearing a tank top dress. And he saw I have angel wings on my back from when I was 18 and getting drunk. And he saw them. And I guess like he really doesn't like tattoos. And so for the first like 15 minutes of the day, he just didn't even look at me. Like we go in line for Froyo. He's not really looking, making eye contact. I'm like and, you know, I just start asking about his business because he owned some gyms at the time. And then it was like he lit up. And then from that point on in the conversation, we talked for, I think, four and a half hours.

42:12We went on a walk, walked like, I don't even know how many miles. It was insane. And by the end of it, I just remember thinking, like the one thought I had was like, I just want to keep talking to him. Like, I don't even care if we're dating or not. I just like finally feel like I found somebody who sees reality the same way as me. I felt like he wanted the same things from life and was looking for the same things. And it was just, it was like a breath of fresh air to talk to anybody, you know, female or male that actually felt that way. And honestly, from that point on, it was, we hung out every day.

42:46I think he, he had to go to like a dinner later that night. And then he called me after we talked to like 2am. And then the next day he came to my work during my lunch break. And then I went to his house afterward. And then it was just like, from that point on, but we weren't working together at that point. You know, we were just dating. And I want to say like two weeks in, he was like, you know, you should really just work for me. And I was like, because he knew that what I was trying to decide of is like, am I going to start my own gym? Or am I going to have an online training business? And I had opportunities on both sides.

43:19I wasn't sure what to do. And I was telling him about this decision. He was like, I think you should do neither of those things. and instead you should come do this with me and we'll make way more money than either of those things. And I was like, yeah, but then I'm, I'm working for you. Like, this is weird. We're like dating right now. He was like, whatever. We've only been dating two weeks. I remember he said that. And I was like, true. Good point. You know, it hasn't been that long. Um, and I was really torn, but at the same time I was like, all right, let me look at all the decisions I've made that have been the best decisions in life.

43:51Putting my back against a wall, putting myself into a situation where most people would fail or falter, right? And putting myself into situations that there's risk. I was like, there's really no better time that if I were to do something like this, than to do it now, because I'm young. And so I talked to a few mentors. I did a lot of thinking. And I was like, I think after he went and he did a launch on his own for Gym Launch, what was to become Gym Launch. And I saw that it actually worked. And a lot of people, by the way, they give me shit for this because I was like, I saw that he made$100 ,000 launching this gym.

44:27Of course, I want to see that he made money. I was making plenty of money on my own. I'm not going to stop to go do something with somebody who hasn't made any money or proven a concept. I'm like, I have my own shit, my own business going on. And so once I saw that it worked, I was like, okay, this makes sense for me financially. So it makes sense to take this risk. And that was when I think the next week, I talked to all of my clients. I talked to the gym that I was working at at the time and I just got rid of everything. And I had a week between getting rid of everything and flying out to the first gym to do the launch for this idea, for this company gym launch.

45:02And that was really the beginning of not our relationship, but our partnership, you know? And so if you really think about it, like we only had, I don't know, six weeks that we weren't working together, like in our entire relationship now, which has been seven years. And the rest of it was, you know, from that point on, it was learning how to navigate, you know, being in a new relationship with somebody that you're also building a new business with while losing money, living out of motels, you know, basically eating shit every day. And it was really hard. So that was, I was like, I just realized where I was going with that.

45:39I was like, that's the story of our relationship.

45:41Hala Taha:I mean, it's so interesting. And Now you guys are such a powerful couple. And I'm sure starting a business and able to have you guys bond together, but also, you know, spending that much time together probably was really tough and maybe felt like you guys needed your own experiences and things like that. So I guess, how did you deal with that? How did you deal with keeping it romantic still, even though you're business partners? Oh, God, it wasn't romantic at all for the first two years. There's no romance. It's like, it's funny because people ask that stuff and I'm like, no, the first two years were us trying to not be poor.

46:16Like we were just trying to not go bankrupt at that point. You know, our relationship was not in the forefront of mind. So it was really the first year. I think that what we did learn by necessity was how to communicate with each other. You know, I learned how Alex works. A lot of people get really intimidated by Alex because what you'll learn if you get close to him is like, he likes one word answers. Like he'll be like, Like, okay, if you're like, you write him a whole novel, he's like, thumbs up. You know, like, very like.

46:42Hala Taha:Yeah, I thought Alex hated me after my, I was like, why does he hate me? Most people think that. Yeah, he's just like, not, he's not like you, bubbly sweet. Like, not like that at all. No, and that's, it took me time to learn too. You know, I joke with everyone that's on our team. I'm like, listen, I thought he hated me too when we first worked together. And then we got married. So apparently he didn't. So it was, it was really learning how to communicate with each other. learning like what are my nuances like how does Layla behave and then how does Alex behave and like how do we behave together um the hardest part was that and I think when you get into any relationship and you're under stress because we were under intense stress those first couple of years it was learning how to use that to our advantage to become better versions of ourselves because being around somebody else in close quarters exposes you when you're under stress where your flaws are or where your weaknesses are.

47:36And I know for me, like one of the best lessons that Alex taught me early on by just pointing it out was I was very cold. And I think that I have substantially warmed up. I think that if people meet me now, I seem pretty warm in the beginning anyways, but I was not that way. I was scared, I was stressed, and I would just shut down. And I remember one time we were sitting in the car and I shut down on him because there was something that he said and I was upset about it, but I didn't want to tell him. and he looked at me and he was like, I just want to let you know that if you keep doing this cold thing, this relationship won't work.

48:09And I was like, but it was funny because what I actually thought in that moment, I wasn't angry. I wasn't defensive. I was like, you know what? Any relationship I have in my life, this will be a problem. Why not solve it now? He's right. I am cold. And I remember that was like the switch for me. And that was the biggest thing that I had to work on the beginning of our relationship. And on the other hand, you know, for Alex, his was probably ego or temper. You know, he used to get angry pretty easily. And I think under stress even more so. And typically when someone's angry, it's like, are they angry at themselves?

48:49You, the situation, you don't really know. But he would get angry and then I would shut down because he was angry and I was scared. And so we had to learn that about each other, talk about it and then learn how to speak each other's language. You know, like if Alex is angry, I know how to deescalate him. If I'm stressed, Alex knows how to deescalate me because we've learned and we've talked about it enough that I've said what I need and he has said what he needs. And it's a, it's a conversation that we have. It's not like I'm guessing, you know what I mean? I'm not over here. Like, what do you want me to do?

49:17You're like, like trying to figure out what he wants me to do when he's angry. I'm just like, Hey, when you're angry, what do you want me to do? and I think that's been the biggest blessing of our relationship is the same way that you would talk with a business partner how do we do this in the business we've taken that into our relationship which is there's nothing that's not talked about like anything to a very high degree we talk about every problem everything we notice if we're like hey we feel pretty uh distant right now do you feel distant he's like yeah and we're like okay let's work on that or if we're like hey I feel like we need some space like I'm just feeling like we are way too close right now like we've had way too much time together.

49:49I just need like a breathing room. We're like, okay. And so that's been, I think what's been a huge contributor to the success of our relationship would just be that, you know, taking those same principles that you would apply to any productive relationship inside of a workplace and using it in our marriage.

50:05Hala Taha:Yeah. That's so healthy. Like I know a lot of relationships, they do not feel that open in terms of the communication. Like they just feel so scared to tell each other how they actually feel about things. So it's so great that you can work through that. I would also, I would say this. Yeah. You can either be scared to communicate something to your partner, or you can be scared of losing yourself in the relationship. And it's like, you get one or the other, which is if you're constantly living in fear of what your partner will think, you lose yourself. And so I have always kept that forefront of mind.

50:36I will not compromise, nor will Alex, who I am and who he is. I always, and we both really accept each other for who we are. But it's one thing that I'm very adamant about. If there's something that's happening that I need to communicate how I feel about it or I'm dissatisfied with and same with him, we will do it even if it hurts our partner's feelings because we both know that we have to put ourselves and what is true to us forefront of mind. Otherwise, our relationship will never work in the long run.

51:02Hala Taha:Yeah. It might feel good in the short term to avoid that thing. But in the long run, you're setting yourself up for dysfunction. Yeah. 100 percent and total failure. So smart. Okay, so I feel like this is a really good segue into behavioral change, because you mentioned and Alex mentioned this on the show that you're you're the fastest person he knows in terms of changing your behavior. And so from my research, I found out used to be afraid of public speaking. And now you essentially do that probably every day as a part of your career. You also thought you would never be a good manager. And that's literally what you're known for now in terms of like your management styles.

51:35Hala Taha:So how do you continually adapt and change your behavior in order to succeed? Yeah. I think that when a lot of people talk about behavior change, what they're really asking for is belief or thought change, right? Because if you think about changing behavior, that's a lot, that's not very complicated. It's like, don't eat the cookie, right? But I think a lot of people want to know how, well, how do I not want to eat the cookie? Right? It's really, that's what they want to know. Because people are like, how do I lose weight? I just can't lose weight. I'm like, no, you can't be hungry. You don't know how to tolerate hunger.

52:10That's why you can't lose weight. And so it's not that I lack anxiety, stress, nervousness. When we got on this podcast, I was like, my heart was racing. Really? Happens every time with every podcast. If I go up to speak the last speech I did, I got on the stage and I couldn't, my mouth was so dry. I thought I was like, I was like, the words for sure won't come out. I still get terrified because I care because I want to make sure that I do the job. I want to like I give value to the audience, right? But what I've learned is to one, not judge myself for that. And two, I can be nervous. I can be scared.

52:44I can be anxious and I can still act like I'm not. And that's the biggest thing that was the unlock for me with behavior change. And what has always been was I don't need to eliminate feelings. I just need to change my relationship with them. Most people, what they do is they think, oh, I feel anxious. I feel scared. I feel nervous. I feeling so I can act in accordance with my values and with the behavior that I would like to have. But that's not the case at all. I need to learn how to befriend these feelings, how to live with these feelings, how to manage these feelings and be okay with these feelings and still take, you know, steps forward anyways.

53:21And so for me, it's always been if I'm feeling stressed or anxious or whatever, and I'm trying to change a behavior, I just remind myself you have to level up. It's above the situation. It's not about, you know, grabbing the cookie or not grabbing the cookie. It's about what's my relationship with hunger, right? And so it's for somebody who's dieting. It's not that you're hungry. It's not that you need the cookie. It's not that it's that you don't know how to be hungry. You can't tolerate the feeling of hunger in your body. For people who get stressed with public speaking, it's not that you can't public speak.

53:50It's that you cannot tolerate the feeling of nervousness in your body before you go on stage. So what I do, despite not wanting to is I force myself into situations where I know that those feelings will be provoked. And I practice like visualizing ahead of time, the thing's going to happen. I'm going to feel like I'm nervous. I'm going to feel like I'm going to throw up. I'm going to feel like I'm going to panic, like whatever it may be. How will I act despite feeling that way? So for example, if I'm public speaking, I visualize myself having a panic attack on stage before I go on stage? And then I walk through, what would I really do, right?

54:29Because a lot of people just go, Jesus, I'd have a panic attack on stage and then that's it, that's it for me, right? I'm done. Or I'm like, okay, say I have a panic attack on stage, right? Then what? It only lasts for like two minutes. What's gonna happen the next two minutes? I could make a joke about it. I could use it as an example for resilience for everybody else that's watching. Like I could make fun of myself. There's so many things that I could do next to actually make that an opportunity, turn that challenge into an opportunity and then I could continue and give my speech.

54:58Hala Taha:Yeah, so like if the worst thing happened, what would I do? And how would I turn that around? Then it makes it not that scary because then you're like, well, if something bad happens, this is my escape plan. Right, but here's what I will say. It's not even that because that's reassuring ourselves. That's saying, okay, well, even if the worst happens, I'll figure, okay, well, what if you don't figure it out? Because that's the other route, which is like, you know, I talk to business owners and they're like, well, what if my business does die? And I'm like, okay, then your business dies. Then what?

55:25They're like, well, I'm like, you have like millions of dollars in the banks. What are you going to do after that? Right? And then they're like, well, I guess I would start another business. And I'm like, okay, so let's talk about the steps. And so I think it's one, talking about what I would do if the worst case scenario happened. And then also making peace with the fact that sometimes when the worst case scenario happens, we don't act in accordance with what our plans were. and visualizing that and visualizing how I would get over it, that it would be okay. So what? I expect that at some point in my career, giving a speech or something, like I'm sure at some point I'll like, nobody will know, but I will have a panic attack on stage because I can get through it now, right?

56:04I can talk through those things, but I'm sure it will happen. And when it does, I've visualized it enough times that I'll be okay with it. I'm not going to judge myself for it. And I hopefully can use it as a lesson for other people to show them that you can do things and be scared at the same time. And that's really been like my whole life. Like, you're like, how do you get rid of the anxiety and all that? I'm like, it's never gone away. Like, only still hanging out next to me all day, every day. But I've just learned how to live with it and really act despite feeling a certain way.

56:32Hala Taha:Yeah. And I think that if you're not constantly trying to get out of a feeling, the feeling will naturally go away anyways. Yeah. But when you're constantly trying to rid yourself of a feeling, what happens is that feeling sticks. But if you're not trying to rid yourself of it, it is much more likely to fade away. So I want to stick on something that you lightly mentioned, which was being uncomfortable, right? And I know that you say that one of the things that holds back our younger generations is that they don't want to be uncomfortable. I had Wim Hof on the show. He's the Iceman. He says something similar, but he talks about like being physically uncomfortable and the importance of that, that we all wear clothes.

57:10Hala Taha:We have, you know, the temperature control on. We don't even want to be cold. That's how far we go with it. And then we don't even unlock the power of our bodies. It's hard to work out. So we don't work out, you know, but I think you take it more from like also a mental perspective. So I'd love to hear from you in terms of why it's so important to be uncomfortable sometimes. Yeah. I do actually think that the physical aspect is useful in many ways. I don't go to the extreme with it. Like I lift and I lift really heavy and hard and I've done that for a while. And that taught me a lot in life, which is make the most progress when you're in a lot of pain under the bar.

57:47Um, but I think that it's important because what feels good is often not good for us. And I think that I, I've learned that early on in my life, which is most of the things that feel good for us are not. But if you, this is what a lot of people think. They think, well, gosh, I don't want to be uncomfortable all of the time. But here's the thing is that those things that are uncomfortable, if done, repeated, repeated enough times become comfortable. And so if you do it in enough areas of your life, it's ironic because then actually everything that is uncomfortable becomes comfortable. And so I think it's just breaking through, getting yourself to take that first step because our brains don't like unpredictability.

58:28And so the reason anything the first time is so hard is because we can't predict what happens next. But the moment we do do that thing, our brain has a new association. It has a memory it's going to make, right? And most of the time, it's not as bad as we think.

58:43Hala Taha:Yeah. And so I think that it's almost a practice in the sense of I try to do things that are uncomfortable for me every day. I try to push myself. I try to not lean into my feelings, not because I don't want to. I want to like today, for example, like had a not great night last night and then didn't sleep well because one thing or another that happened at work and then woke up, had calls at 6 a.m. was going. I was like, I feel like absolute ass. I was like, but you know what? I'm going to fucking show up here and I'm going to crush it and I'm going to crush my meetings later. I'm going to crush my interviews later.

59:11and I think that even every time we do that what we do is we build confidence within ourselves so that every other thing in our life that's uncomfortable is easier to accomplish right and so I think it's just a matter of building momentum you know a lot of people are like well I just Layla I have a really hard time getting uncomfortable I'm like but you've made a habit of being comfortable so you know how to make a habit now we just got to make a habit in the other direction yeah which is funny but it's really like you have the power of inertia on your side once you start doing it which is if you start leaning into comfort more and more and more I have a friend that wrote a book called The Comfort Crisis.

59:42You start to do everything in your life in accordance with the comfort. And it's called the comfort creep. That's what he named it. Versus the opposite direction, you start to do everything uncomfortably, right? Then it's discomfort creep. You start to notice in every area of your life, you start to make yourself a little more uncomfortable and you start achieving more and more. Because achieving things comes from like the only reason that accomplishments feel good is because we did something that was uncomfortable. And often people think I have to rid myself of this discomfort to do this thing.

1:00:10But no, accomplishments without the discomfort don't actually feel good. And so the reason that successful people are so confident isn't because they didn't have discomfort and did something, it's because they had so much discomfort and did it anyways. And so I think for me, it's just always been, I encourage people to get uncomfortable. I encourage people to also be aware of how to make themselves uncomfortable in a way that they can manage, right? It might be, let's try some small steps first. Okay. If you're terrified of public speaking and you're going to throw up when you get on stage, let's do some podcast interviews online first, right?

1:00:41Like maybe let's make some YouTube videos and then let's get a stage maybe six months down the road. And I think that you can stair step your way up to your greatest fears or your greatest discomforts. And we all have to know ourselves and know what works best. Some people can throw themselves in the fire and just like go straight into the most uncomfortable situation and come out great. Some people that wouldn't work too well. And they have to stair step their way into something that's uncomfortable, I think it's a matter of figuring out what works for you.

1:01:06Hala Taha:Yeah. So I love this topic. I kind of want to stay here for a little while. I love the topic of motivation because I feel like a lot of my listeners reach out to me telling me like they don't know how to find their motivation and they feel like it's this external thing. And they always feel like they need to have the feeling of motivation to get something done. And I know that you have said in the past that you don't always stay motivated. You don't do things just because of the way that you feel. So I'd love to learn a little bit more about that. I think that most people don't have motivation because they don't have enough responsibility.

1:01:41Go look at the single mom who is raising four kids. Does she lack motivation?

1:01:49Hala Taha:No. No. She has responsibility. And so I think a lot of people, when they're talking about motivation, what it really is, is that they lack responsibility. If you are responsible, I am responsible for all of the people that work at my company. I am responsible for all of the companies that are in my portfolio. I am responsible for an audience that supports me. That's what I think in my mind. So am I going to take the selfish action of doing the thing I want to do? Or am I going to take the action of doing the thing that's better for all of them? And I think that what a lot of people do is they avoid responsibility, which then decreases motivation.

1:02:24You don't feel like doing something when you don't have a big enough reason. Create enough reasons, which is usually people, and you have more motivation to do things. So it's not that I feel motivation every day, but I have a responsibility to the people whose lives I have influence over. And so every day when I wake up and I have to make the decision, am I going to do this, not going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm not going to do that. That's what I'm thinking with. And so I think that for those people who are asking, you know, I just don't have the motivation, take on more responsibility.

1:02:53You won't even have time to think about how you feel because you've just got to do it because you're responsible for other people. And I think that we live in a day and age where people lack responsibility. I mean, if you even look like the family construct in this country, it's like completely different than it was a long time ago. And so we have less pressure to do well. We have less pressure to stick with our commitments. and we have less pressure to get uncomfortable. But if you're the person that's responsible for many other people's lives, you'll have the motivation much more than you wouldn't.

1:03:25Hala Taha:Yeah. Does that make sense? Oh, it totally does. I align so much with this. I even wrote down some thoughts about this and it's like we're very close in terms of what we were saying our approach would be to, so for example, you were saying before this interview, you kind of felt like crap, you didn't really want to do it, but you showed up, right? Me too. I almost broke up with my boyfriend last night. I had a terrible night. I was like, oh God, like I have to be, I have my game face on. But at the end of the day, we have to show up because that's why we're successful. Because we show up even when we don't feel like showing up.

1:03:59Hala Taha:And like you, I zoom out. And I think if I don't show up here, I'm putting my employees at jeopardy. If I don't show up today, I'm putting my fans aren't gonna have an episode. Layla gets a lot of money to talk. I'm not gonna cancel and like ruin my reputation with Layla. It's like all these things to your point, like you hit the nail on the head. I'm responsible for a lot of things. So the only way I'm canceling an interview is I literally have strep throat and I can't talk. And the other thing I think about is like if I'm physically able to do the show, if something actually does happen that's bad to me down the line, at least I did the actions that I could to get myself as far as I could.

1:04:36Hala Taha:And then when I actually am sick, I can be like, all right, I deserve to be sick. I can cancel this interview, you know? So I think we're aligned there. Let's talk about the GSD muscle, right? You talk about this get shit done muscle. How can we build and develop that muscle? A lot of people don't get shit done because they spend way more time in the thought and less time in the action. Now I know how to think. I can definitely sit and think and do all, but a lot of the times what I need to do is go take action. And I think that a lot of the times, and this is like what we were talking about earlier, it's just a theme that I've noticed, which is people are staying in their heads so much now.

1:05:12It's overthinking, overanalyzing, you know, stuff like you got to build the get shit done muscle, which the only way you do that is if the moment that you think about something, you own your power by taking action immediately. The way that you get more power is you take action on a thought faster than others, faster than you used to, faster than you did five days ago. And so for a lot of people, it's that. That paired with being able to face the discomfort. I mean, like we just talked about, I think that if you want to get shit done, you're going to be uncomfortable. and I think that you build that muscle faster when you put it under tension on a more frequent basis.

1:05:47And so when I think about the get shit done muscle, it's like any other muscle, which is you've got to go to the gym and you've got to put time under tension, right? It doesn't matter if you're doing high reps, low reps, weight on the bar, like it's time under tension that builds a muscle. And it's the same for the get shit done muscle, which is the moment that you realize that it's, okay, thought to action threshold. How many more times can you do that and how many situations? And so what I like to do for myself when I'm trying to instill that. When maybe I feel like I'm in a season where something happened and it didn't go my way or I'm scared or I'm stressed or something's happening.

1:06:17I write down what are those things on a daily basis that I can do. I read it at the beginning of the day and I'm like, these are the small things I'm gonna do to build that muscle today to do my time under tension. It might be a hard conversation with a coworker. It might be that I have to have a hard conversation with a portfolio company. It might be, I start asking myself, what are these things that maybe I'm avoiding or could avoid that if I were to do today would make me stronger tomorrow. And that is what the get you done muscle is. And I think that a lot of people don't have it or it's atrophied because they're okay living with the pink elephant in the room.

1:06:51You know, I think that if you have a very strong get you done muscle, you don't have a lot of dirty laundry. Whereas if you do have a very strong get you done muscle, there's nothing like there's no pink elephant in the room. Like there's nothing there. Like you have a clear conscience. And so that's why I talk about utilizing that because for me, at least, that's how I keep my headspace clear. I don't like having to think about a lot of situations that are like, I want to say like not complete, not resolved.

1:07:14Hala Taha:Open loops, yeah. Open loops. Like I don't like having that. I don't like having, if anything bothers me, I feel like there's anything off with the teammate, I just address it immediately. And so I think that that's really where the muscle is and what it comes from. And it's just like anything else, any other muscles, like time under tension is how you're going to build it. I love that. I found something really interesting when I was studying you and it was about hiring. And you said you can't hire anyone who is a better person than you if you're the boss. And from my understanding, you've essentially turned down working with companies because you believe that top talent wouldn't actually work for the leader.

1:07:46Hala Taha:Could you shed some color on that? Yeah. You know, I'll put it this way. I think that it's not that there are situations in which top talent will go work for that person, but how long they stay is what I'm concerned with. I don't think that, think about this, right? Like I have a certain level of character. I would never work for somebody who had worse character than me. And if I did, it would probably be for a very short amount of time and I wouldn't be loyal to that person. And so when we're looking at companies, that is 1000 % the biggest issue that I see, which is there are so many young entrepreneurs that have these insane opportunities, these insane companies, and they lack the integrity.

1:08:28maybe they lack the the discipline they lack the trust that I don't think that top true top talent would be easy to recruit for them and so I don't want to work with them I think that you might feel this but it's like you can feel someone's intention when you're having a conversation yeah right so like there's a lot of people that I talk to in business for example it's like when I'm at like an event and I talk to them I'm like this motherfucker wants to suck the blood out of my brain like they just want all the information I talk to somebody else I'm like they just want me to like talk about them on social, like you can feel someone's intention.

1:09:01And there's a lot of people I've gotten on the phone with, not an overwhelmingly amount, but enough that have success. But I can tell that the success is self-fulfilling. It's not for others. It's for themselves. They're not in it for others. They're not in it for their clients. They're not in it for their team because they don't talk about that. You know what they talk about? I, I, I, me, me, me. That doesn't create loyalty. That doesn't create an environment in which top talent wants to work for you or your self mode. It's being selfishly driven. And one could argue that you are selfishly driven to help other people because it feels good to yourself.

1:09:33But I would take that over being selfishly driven to have more money, have more status, have more power. And I can feel when I talk to somebody by the language that they're using, what they really want. And a lot of that comes from even asking them, like, what's the point of the business? Why does the business exist? And a lot of them will say, well, you know, I wanted to make some money and then this, and, And then it's always about them. It's like, I really like this house. I like this car. I like this lifestyle. I like the lifestyle, right? Whereas I think the best leaders in the world are not building a company to pursue a lifestyle.

1:10:07They're building a company to pursue a purpose. And they're building a company to pursue impact. Because that's what I think about. The question I ask myself every day when I wake up is, is my team supported? Do they have clarity? Are my portfolio companies supported? Do they have clarity? Those are the two questions that I think of in the morning. I don't ask myself, how does Layla gain more status and influence? I could give a fuck. Like I do this because I want people to know who I am because I hope that my true character shows through and they can see I'm not like an asshole boss. I really want to build a place where people love working and I want to teach other companies to do the same.

1:10:42Because I too used to have a shitty boss. So I know what it's like to work in an environment where I want to shoot myself every day. It sucked. Yeah. And so I think that that's really how you sense it is the language somebody uses. You know, are they talking about themselves more? Are they talking about the why, the people, the team, the clients? It's just a little nuance, but you can tell when you're in the conversation.

1:11:03Hala Taha:Yeah, 100%. So let's talk about the hiring process and dive deep into that. You have a YouTube video called$100 Million Hiring Process. And according to your video, the first step in the hiring funnel is the application generation. So I know a lot of my listeners are entrepreneurs. a lot of people are struggling with hiring right now. So I thought we could spend a little time on it. So I'll give you this. A lot of people get the job title wrong because one, they don't know what right looks like. They don't have mentorship. They don't have advisors and they also don't do research. So what I did when I was first starting out to understand what kind of job title I need is I would put in keywords just into Google of like, what's a job for somebody that does?

1:11:42And I would like say the top three things. I'm not even kidding you. And then I would look at all the titles that would come up. And then I would Google those titles and read the job descriptions of each one. And then I would find out the one that had the most similar description to the job that I need somebody to do. And so I think that the reason is a lot of people don't put in the time, the effort, they don't have the experience. But you can easily do that with literally using Google. So it's like, if you went and you read, you're like, okay, I don't know what this role is called, but you read 17 job descriptions and then took the top three that you think it could be and compare them on six other websites, you're going to figure out probably the best name for the job.

1:12:18I think it's just that most people aren't diligent about that because they don't understand why it's important. If you understand why it's important, it's a task worth doing. When you don't understand the importance, it's not a task worth doing. But the reality is that most of the time when someone can't recruit, the number one thing that I'll change is the job title. I'm like, oh, it's not the right job title. So I'll give an example. I'm hiring for, I'll say, an administrative assistant to help my E18. So I put it out as administrative assistant and the people I was getting were like, they had like one year of experience.

1:12:48So I was like, shit, like I need someone with more experience than that. So then I made it senior administrative assistant. I started getting people with five, six years of experience, just the tiniest change in job title, right? But if you look at salary.com, payscale.com, what's the difference between an administrative assistant and a senior, there's a difference in pay and an experience. And so it's going to attract a different type of person. And so I think for a lot of people out there that are struggling with this, it's the exact same thing as a marketing funnel, as a client acquisition funnel.

1:13:16It's just a talent acquisition funnel. And that's the reason so many people don't succeed in business is they don't see the similarities between those two things, or they don't believe, they haven't accumulated the evidence to show them like, this really works. I've just had enough at-bats, and I think that I got lucky in the beginning of believing it was important to try it enough times and see it work. Yeah.

1:13:36Hala Taha:And I think that a lot of people don't realize that when there's a top talent person searching, they're searching for the job title that they know about, right? They're not going to read every single job post and research, like just find you, right? You need to be able to be searchable for them. 100%. They're looking for the name that resonates with who they identify with. So second part of the hiring funnel is nurturing. So talk to us about how we can have a frictionless candidate experience and what the indirect and direct experiences are during that process. Yeah. So there's really two things during the hiring lead nurture process that I would like to call our candidate nurture process, which is, you know, indirect communication, which is if I search a company, what am I going to find online?

1:14:19You know, is it good? Is it bad? Because what candidates do is they go look at your reviews on Google. They go look at your client reviews. They go look at Facebook group reviews. They go look at last door, all of it, not just employee reviews, lots of customer reviews. You have to understand that because that's usually what pops up first. So that's the first thing I'm asking is, what does it look like when they search your name? That's the indirect part of the funnel. And you can have a lot of say in that in terms of what kind of press you're putting out there, what your website looks like. Like you can control the narrative.

1:14:47A lot of people are just too lazy to do it, right? And so the narrative is controlled by customers, by ex-employees, et cetera. But if you take control by controlling the narrative, by putting out content for your company, then you are going to control the narrative and most likely have a better indirect experience for that candidate. The other side is the direct communication, which is what I see as a huge pattern is people think I need to have so many tests and so many complicated things to make this candidate go through for this nurture process because I want to make sure I only get the smart ones.

1:15:17The smart people have unlimited opportunity and don't give a fuck about your funnel and don't want to take your 30-point test. That's just reality because guess what? They have five other jobs that are going to pay them the same, if not more, that don't have that test. And a lot of people will say, I just want the person with the character though. I'm like, you don't understand. This is opportunity cost. Yeah, or they're going to get poached on LinkedIn.

1:15:37Hala Taha:Like they're not even going through an application. No, this is opportunity cost for them. I mean, they have so many opportunities. You have to understand, they don't give a shit about that. And so a lot of people try to make it very complicated. They try to make it very, you know, they try to think of it like the candidate should be coming to me versus how could I better, create a better experience for the candidate. And so I've just taken the same principles from customer experience and I put them into candidate experience, which is if I was trying to nurture a lead, how would I be talking to them?

1:16:07I do the same thing with people if I think they're going to hire, like I want to hire them. I'm like, I will be reaching out to them. I will be talking to them. I will be complimenting them. I'm not going to expect them to just always come to me. And so I think that that's the first thing. And it does take somebody who doesn't have, who has a good amount of humility because I think a lot of people think my shit don't stink. They should be coming to me. I'm like, nobody knows who the fuck you are. So let's just get over ourselves.

1:16:29Hala Taha:Yeah. Can you talk to us about the importance of speed and hiring? Mm-hmm. The average top candidate gets a job in eight days. The biggest reason that any of our portfolio companies have lost a candidate is time. They'll interview someone on Monday, and then I get like a slack on like Thursday, and it's like, hey, I've got a candidate. I want you to interview. I'm like, oh, did you just speak with them? Like, what? How was it? Yeah, yeah, no, I met with her on Monday. And I'm like... like it is just the same way that you would nurture a lead that was a hundred thousand dollar customer is how you would want to nurture an employee because often you're paying someone 50 to 200 thousand dollars right say your small business how how would you nurture a lead that was worth that much money let alone an employee who's going to stay for a long period of time and so i think that we look at it the wrong way we think that um it's different than that but it's actually the same.

1:17:24And candidates right now, especially, you know, I think it's going to change a little bit in the next coming months. But right now, you know, the ball's still in a lot of people's courts where they have unlimited opportunity. And so the companies that are out there that are getting the top talent are the ones that have more robust infrastructure and are able to go faster. But if a small company is equipped with this and they understand, because like when we first started gym launch, it was me and my assistant hiring. And I still was like day of. We send rejection day of, we send follow-up day of, we schedule, we schedule a meeting from a meeting.

1:17:52So it's like, we'd get done with an interview and be like, cool, we want to do the next interview. Let's schedule it right now while we're on the call. Because we understood the importance of speed. And I think that anybody can do that. It's just a matter of understanding the importance, which is if you're waiting more than eight days to hire somebody, you're getting worse candidates.

1:18:05Hala Taha:Yeah. Something that I loved what you said, you said it in a video or an interview that we're buying people's brains. And I thought that was so smart and funny. And so I'd love for you to unpack that. Like, how do we tell if they have the right skills, the right culture, if you feel those tests aren't relevant, is there at some point in the process where we would give people those types of tests or is it more just getting it out of conversation? You know, different people do it different ways. I tend to err more on the side of conversations and situational interviewing than I do hard testing. If you look at a lot of the practical tests people put together, those are typically the same format of questions that you for an interview anyways.

1:18:45So what I do is I think of, okay, what are situations in which somebody would exhibit the values that we have in the company? And then I will take those apart and I will break them down into questions. So competitive greatness, for example, if I wanted to figure out if somebody has competitive greatness, I would ask them, why do you want to work? What motivates you? Why do you come to work every day? And if somebody says money, it's not competitive greatness to me, right? And if a portfolio company, I say, why do you have your company? and they say, well, I want to make$10 million. I'm like, it's not competitive greatness to me, right?

1:19:18Competitive greatness is an unending process, right? It's a continuous cycle of self-improvement, you know, knowing that the challenge itself is what creates who you want to be. Another example would be sincere candor, which would be, tell me, I'll give this one, you would think it's like easy and people could fake it, but nobody ever does. I say, tell me the last hard conversation you had and tell me how it went. And I swear, most of the time nobody can think of it i could tell you what i had a day ago i could tell you i had a hard conversation last night you know what i mean so it's um if i'm looking for someone who's sincerely candorous i'm going to ask that and you're going to be able to tell by their reaction not just what they say but their reaction in terms of like do they actually have that and then in terms of the skill side of it and their experience it's asking people to recall how they drove results you know i think it's you can talk about the actions you took on a daily basis, but I don't really care about that.

1:20:09I want to know, tell me about results you drove for a company that are similar to the results I'm asking you to drive here and tell me how you did it. How did you go about it? Give me a summary of that. And that's typically what I'll ask. So if I have somebody I'm hiring for director of customer success and I need them to reduce churn for a customer base, I'm going to say, tell me about a time that you reduced churn. How much did you reduce it by? And how did you go about doing that? And you can tell when someone's answering those questions. If somebody doesn't know how to do that and you have any, you know, as a, as a CEO, of course, like I feel like I have to have knowledge of every department.

1:20:40Like I have enough to know if somebody is bullshitting me or if like the answer they're giving is, you know, mediocre. What I'm looking for most of the time is that I learned something from that interview, right? One, I want to feel like the values are true to them. The other side of the experiential piece in the education is I want to feel like they're able to teach me something on that interview. And so I leave being better for it. Does that make sense? Yeah, total sense.

1:21:01Hala Taha:So I know that the end of the process is that you believe as long as you're a relatively small company, you know, a thousand employees or less, it should end with a CEO interview. And I know that a lot of small entrepreneurs, even if they have 20 employees, they do not do every single interview. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made as a young entrepreneur. My business scale to 60 employees and I started to have lower level employees hiring my employees. And then it was like a mess. I had really bad talent for a little bit and I had to let go a lot of my team and it was really hard. And so I learned that lesson first year in business, like I will never do that again.

1:21:36Hala Taha:Talk to us about why that's so important. I believe that if you are truly a people first company, if you really believe that your employees and your team are the most important to the business, which I would argue in any sense the way they are, they are the business, then you would think that the CEO would show with the most valuable resource they have, which is time, not money, time, how important those people are to them. And I don't think there's a more important way or a more impressive way than having the last interview. And basically what I do on that interview is I show them that I'm not just here for you with this job, but you as a person, which is what are your personal goals?

1:22:16Do they align with the opportunity that we have within this business? And that's what I'm trying to figure out. And so I come on there and I want to set the tone for what their relationship is going to be like with us and be like with the business, which is it's not you're just a number here. It's not this. It's person first, human first. I want to show you why you're important. And I'm showing you right now with my time. Yeah. Just like a parent, if they have a kid, it's like, cool, you can pay for them to like go get ice cream with their kids and, you know, go to this really cool amusement park.

1:22:44But like there's nothing more meaningful than it being their time.

1:22:48Hala Taha:So like we mentioned, a lot of people are having a little bit of trouble hiring right now. there's more opportunities to start businesses. It's easier than ever to kind of be a freelancer. And so people have a lot of options. So I heard you say something that was really interesting to me, which was that we really need to create a bigger vision so that people actually feel they can fit within that if we really want them to work for us because they could just really work for themselves now. Could you talk to us about that? Yeah, I think so. I read the book by the CEO of Blackstone where he talks about it's just as easy to create a big company as it is to create a small company.

1:23:25And that really resonated with me because I think that what he explained is that it is easier to recruit talent if you have a big vision than to recruit talent if you have a small vision because big talent doesn't want to work for a small vision. And so that really hit home with me. And it showed me that you can't have one without the other. It's almost, I cannot even get top talent without a big vision. And you can't create the thing that creates the vision or fulfills that vision without the top talent. And so that really hit home with me. And I realized that you have to have a vision big enough that other people's visions for their own lives can fit inside of it.

1:24:05And to the degree of which somebody's vision for themselves fits inside the company is how long you'll keep them. Once they see that they've hit a point where their personal trajectory of their life has, say, the business is here and they're here, and then they go up here, right? Now there's a deficit. They're feeling like they're lacking something in the workplace because there's some kind of experience that they're not getting from the workplace that they're getting outside. And so I think the most important thing that we can do is be very explicit about the vision, be very explicit about where we're going and very diligent in making sure that when you bring people in, you understand how much runway they have.

1:24:37I will never tell somebody that they have a long runway if I know they don't. If somebody doesn't have a long runway, I will absolutely tell them. If somebody comes on to be, you know, an EA for me, I'm like, I don't really want you to go anywhere. Like, I'd like you to just want to be an EA for forever. Because like, you know, anyone that's on our administrative team, like, there's not a ton of upward trajectory, obviously promotions and raises in like small amounts. But you know, becoming a director of operations or director of HR, that's going to create a huge hole for me to fill. And so I'm not really looking for that.

1:25:07Versus if I bring somebody into a new department, and I put them as, head of business development and there's one person in there, I'm like, hey, one day I'd like you to be VP of revenue or CRO. And so I hire according to that, which is what is their personal vision for themselves? What's my vision for the role? And I want to make sure that the two match. And I think that a lot of times when we're recruiting, the reason a lot of people can't get good talent is because they think that they're like, oh, it's just money. I just can't afford to pay top talent. Okay, well, when we had gym launch, I was able to get some really big talent that wouldn't have otherwise worked for us, because we had enthusiasm, we had vision, and we had an ability to show those people how they would be able to grow within our organization.

1:25:49And so we didn't have the biggest opportunity, but we could show them that their opportunity could at least fit inside what we did have in that company. And I think that a lot of people are just so focused on money and thinking about the competition that's trying to recruit people. I'm like, people want opportunity. That's what they really want. They want to see, like, it's almost like in a relationship, right? When you get with a guy or a girl or whatever, right? You get in a new relationship, you're going to treat it differently if you think that you're going to be in that relationship for a long time than you would if you think you're only going to be there for a few weeks, a few months, or even a year.

1:26:19It's the same way it goes for employment. And so it's reciprocated because if I feel that somebody really can feel, like, I can tell that they think their vision fits within the company, I see how they act, they see how I act. It's a much more trusting relationship. And you have a lot more loyalty with each other than you would otherwise. And I think a lot of people just don't use it to their advantage because one, they're probably scared to think too big. They're worried that they'll fail. But the reality is you'll for sure fail if you don't think big enough that you can't attract the right talent to build something.

1:26:48Hala Taha:So smart. And I heard you say before that basically people hop from job to job so they can level up in their career. They need to be able to hop in your company too from job title to job title. Is there a certain way that you kind of show that to your employees or something that you do to show them the trajectory? Or do you just give them new projects all the time? Like how do you, is it obvious? I think for executive level, it's a little bit different. Executive level, it's often showing the business, like I have the business projected for the next 10 years along with like an org chart for the next three.

1:27:19And so people can see what kind of responsibility they'll continue to assimilate as an executive team. For people under the executive team, there's two things that we're working on right now. Because you have to remember acquisition.com is pretty new. is competency maps. So a competency map is basically showing you, here's the levels in our organization. So say there's six core levels. Here's the skills and the traits needed for each level. And so if you want to get from one level to the next, here's the skills and the traits required to do so. And here's what the pay raise looks like as well.

1:27:46Here's what the opportunity looks like. Here's what your relationship with management looks like. And so I try to do that within one, the organization as a whole, and then within each department that makes sense. So two that are very typical would be media. So if you have a large media team, like we're building out one for our media team right now to show everyone like, here's the levels needed to build out the media team. And here's all the room you have upward, like upward trajectory wise. Same with a sales team. That's a very traditional one is to show people, you know, based on their experience, how much, what their close rate is, all those things.

1:28:16Here's all the levels that you can get to. And here's how much you can make along with the opportunity that you'll have in the company. And so it's called a competency map. If you look it up, you can find them for other companies. and for a small company, the thing is, it's actually easier to make because you have less people. And so you could even just show, like, if you don't even know, break it down to like three levels, individual contributor, manager, leader, right? Individual contributor, manager, executive, whatever it may be, right? And I think that if you can just start by showing people, it shows them that you give a shit.

1:28:46Hala Taha:You know what I mean? And I think that a lot of people are like, well, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be as good as Layla's that she's describing. Okay, well, the point is that you give a shit. And that's what people want to see, is that you're thinking about their future. Most bosses don't even think about the future of an employee. It's so true. So let's say we've used all your guidance. We've hired a great team. But if you have a great team and no accountability, then you're at risk of not getting much done. So you talk about your accountability framework. You even go as far to say that instead of CEO, you call yourself the chief accountability officer, which is really cute.

1:29:22Hala Taha:Could you talk to us about your accountability formula? Yeah, it's understanding that accountability doesn't exist without measurement, right? Without feedback and in a timely manner. And so a lot of the times the two things that are missing is the measurement, which is, are you showing someone where they fit on a spectrum? You know, on a scale of one to 10, how well are they doing their job? Are you letting them know that they're only at a seven and what they have to do to get to a 10? That's one of the first things required for accountability. It's just like if we were a weight scale. So if I go and weigh myself, right, the scale is basically the accountability officer, as I would say, because the scale gives them a number.

1:30:01It gives them feedback, right? Now, the way that we can amplify accountability, the only way that we can actually multiply it, right, is by giving the person feedback of the measurement, right? So it's like there's the measurement, which is telling them how good they're doing. And then it's how many times are you telling them in how many ways how good they're doing? Are you doing quarterly reviews? Are you doing one-on-ones? Are you having conversations with them? Are you slacking them feedback? So like, for example, you know, we just did a kickoff with a new partner company. And the first thing I did this morning was I wrote feedback to the person that conducts the kickoffs.

1:30:33I said, here's all my feedback for you. Here's how well I think you did. I actually thought this was the best one you ever did yet. Right? And so I'm telling him where he's at in terms of my expectations. And so the best thing that we can do as CEOs, entrepreneurs, people that employ other people, is really just the feedback. Like if there's one thing that you could do, because especially if you're a small business, the crux is always, hey, I don't have measurement. I don't have things in place yet. Well, you can at least tell someone verbally in a qualitative manner how they're doing. And you can do it more than mumbling it on a call with them when they're not really paying attention in a way that doesn't even sound direct or like it makes any sense, right?

1:31:10Because that's what a lot of people do. The way that they give feedback is, oh yeah, and then next time you do that presentation, Maybe we just do it a little bit differently. You know, maybe you just, and it's like, they say it in a way that's very non-direct. But I think the best way to give people feedback and to hold them accountable is to be as clear as possible. It's like when you measure yourself on the scale, it's not like it says like, it's not like blurred. You're not like having to like lean in and really wonder what it's saying. You're like, is it say 150 or 155? Like you would be like, I don't know what the feedback is.

1:31:39Did my weight go up or down? Five pounds is a big difference. That could have been up, it could have been down, right? And so when people are vague with their feedback to employees, it's the same as the scale being that way and being vague. It's like a small amount of nuance makes a big difference. And so you have to be very clear in your communication because a lot of the times when someone's delivering critical feedback, the employee actually thinks that it's positive feedback because the way that they're delivering it is so poor. And so I think it's being explicit and being able to find your voice is a really important piece of that.

1:32:05And you don't do that unless you have at-bats. And so in the beginning, you're going to suck at doing it and you just have to get better and better over time.

1:32:12Hala Taha:Yeah, and would you say that feedback should be continual and not just like once a quarter or once a year performance review? 100%. It's the only thing that can amplify and multiply accountability. It's the only thing that really strengthens it to a high degree is giving that feedback. And it's just the more you can normalize feedback, the easier people can take it, the more likely they are to act on it. But a lot of people avoid giving feedback and they create a culture of secrecy and of whispers and gossip. when the reality, if you give feedback on a regular basis, everyone gets used to it and then it doesn't feel bad.

1:32:49It's just like discomfort. It's something that's uncomfortable. Do it enough times. It's not uncomfortable anymore.

1:32:55Hala Taha:Yeah. And it's so important so that your employees actually get better at their jobs and continue to learn and improve instead of making the same mistakes over and over again. Okay. Let's talk, let's take it from the employee perspective. Let's take it from, you know, a lot of my listeners are entrepreneurs, but at the same time, a lot of them are corporate professionals. They want to level up in their job. They want to be seen by their boss, taken up for promotions. So what can somebody do as an employee to really stand out? I get a lot of shit for this, but I believe in it, which is the only way to stand out truly is to exceed expectations.

1:33:33Humans, when expectations match reality, we are neutral. We feel nothing. We feel that was how it's supposed to go. So if somebody does their job exactly how it's laid out, I think to myself, that was how it's supposed to go. Now, if somebody does their job worse than the job is laid out, I feel disappointed. I feel frustrated. I feel angry. If someone exceeds the expectations, the only time somebody will really stand out in a job is if they exceed expectations. Meeting expectations is not enough. You don't stand out. Nobody feels anything from that. Like truly, your nervous system does not excited by that.

1:34:08But the moment that somebody does beyond the job description and exceeds expectations is when the boss will feel like truly, like actually feel excited, feel elated, feel encouraged. Right. And so I think that a lot of employees say, you know, doing my job is enough doing beyond my job takes too much effort. It's not always about the amount of work you're doing. It's how you do the work.

1:34:30Hala Taha:Yes. Right. And so a lot of people, you can exceed expectations in the way you do something, not even just there's doing something and completing a mission, which is expected, but how you do it is also what's going to make a difference. So if you're told to make a presentation to train a team, you can make a presentation that can train a team and it could be sufficient or it could have animations. You could bring in a guest speaker. You could think about it like that, right? To the degree at which you do every of your daily tasks is the degree at which you will impress the person, whether you exceed expectations on a consistent basis in the tasks you're doing or whether you're not meeting expectations.

1:35:04Because just meeting them, you'll just blend in.

1:35:06Hala Taha:Yeah, I totally agree. There's this trend of quite quitting I was talking about on the podcast. And basically what it is, is a lot of people have just decided I'm going to do the bare minimum. And to your point, they feel like I should just do what I get paid for and that's it. But if you do that, no one's going to like as a boss, it's like you don't nobody wants an employee like that. You want an employee who's going to be worth 10 times what you pay them, right and and and that's why you're going to promote them and let them lead and become a manager so i feel like that's just a recipe for not moving in your job it is and i think here's the thing a lot of i talked about this and i got a lot of backlash in terms of people saying well layla these people treat me like shit they don't give me promotions they don't give me raises i'm not recognized i understand that but i just don't think that acting in despite of someone else's actions is going to help anybody.

1:35:59Because at the end of the day, for me, when I had, I had plenty of jobs before I had my own company. I, how I acted was more important to me for who I was, for my integrity with myself than it was for the person I was working for. Because it's not about them. It's about me, who I am, how I work, how I show up when nobody else gives a shit. And so for me, it's not even about either of these things. It's about who are you? Because you're not defined by how you think and feel. You are defined by the actions you take. And so if you act like a lazy person and you don't work, you are a lazy person. It's like when people say, you know, if you feel it, nobody cares how you feel.

1:36:36They just care how you behave. And that is what you are identified with. You are identified with your actions. So people are like, oh, he had good intentions. I don't give a fuck. Intention doesn't equal impact. So it's like, well, you know, this boss isn't going to be a promotion. I'm like, that says a lot about you because I can tell you that I worked my fucking ass off for years in jobs that I never got a raise and I never got a promotion. I did it because that's who I am. And I do everything with excellence. And so to me, it's the employees are shooting themselves in the foot because they are degrading their own character.

1:37:03I don't care about the boss piece. I'm just talking to you as a human, which is like, why are you doing that to yourself? You're literally fucking yourself by doing that.

1:37:10Hala Taha:Yeah. Not to mention that like your vibe and your energy is that of a lazy person. You're going to attract lazy opportunities. You're not going to be even to be able to attract the things that you want in your life because you're not doing them. So I totally agree with that. All right. So we close out this interview with two questions that we ask, and then we round them out and summarize them at the end of the year. So the first one is, what is one actionable thing that our young and profiter's can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Like actually in business? It doesn't matter. It could be in life, profiting in any way that you see fit.

1:37:44I'm going to say it again. Make a list of five things that you can do tomorrow that you've been avoiding because they're uncomfortable. And do them. Despite how you feel, despite how you rest tonight, despite how, you know, your mood is tomorrow, commit to five things tomorrow that you've been avoiding, write them down and do them.

1:38:06Hala Taha:Get uncomfortable, right? And what is your secret to profiting in life? The ability to take action quickly after failure. So I think that a lot of the times when we're getting uncomfortable and we're doing things that are uncomfortable. We fail, we stumble. But I do not let that. I don't dwell on my failure. I don't find that to be productive. I can, I just get up and I go and I try it again immediately, not the next day, not a week later. I try to do it immediately. And so I think that there's nothing wrong with failing. It's the fact that most people dwell on their failure for so long that that becomes their life when you could have just gotten up the next day and done it again.

1:38:45Hala Taha:I love that. And where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? You can go to acquisition.com. We have some free courses on there for business. And you can opt in for our email list. And we email out like, you know, different interesting nuggets. You could also go to at Leila Hormozy on Instagram, Leila Hormozy on YouTube, and Leila Hormozy on Twitter. And I am pretty active on those three platforms. Awesome. And I'm going to stick all those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for having me.