Mo Gawdat: The Terrifying Rise of AI and What Humans Must Do to Thrive | Artificial Intelligence | AI Vault

29:03OK, then I have already managed how I managed to to affect you. Interestingly, most of those machines that you've dealt with are programmed for one simple task, which is to manipulate you. Every one of those social media machines, for example, are out there with one objective, which is to manipulate your behavior to their benefit. And they're becoming really good at it. They're becoming so good at it, as a matter of fact, that most of the time we don't even realize that we have been brainwashed over and over and over by the capability of those machines. So here's the interesting bit. I told you in the immediate risks that are coming up in the next, I believe they have started already and I think they will start to become quite significant over the next year or two.

29:57And we will see my personal view, what I call patient zero, is the end of the truth in the U.S. elections. Right. So the reality of the matter is that with deep fakes, with, you know, with the ability to manipulate information and data, with the ability to take to create. By next year, you have to be you have to be aware that a reel on Instagram can be created with no human in front of the camera very, very easily. You know, technologies like stability.ai, you know, stable diffusion, for example, can now generate realistic human-like images in less, you know, than a tenth of a second. And a video is 10 frames per second.

30:46So the next stage is clearly going to be video. There are multiple videos that have been created that you couldn't distinguish, you know, the quality of from an actual iPhone video of you. Now, all of that, think of face filters and how this is affecting our perception of real beauty. Think of, you know, of information and statistics using Chad GPT affecting the children's way of doing their homework. We are completely redesigned as a society and we're not even talking about it. This is how far this has gone. It is insane. And I definitely want to talk about those risks that you were talking about.

31:35Immediate risk, job risks, existential risk down the line years later. So talk to us about the fact that AI can learn on its own. It can learn languages on its own. It can beat chess players and come up with moves that we've never taught it before. Because a lot of people think about AI as something that just collects information and spits out information. but it can actually learn new things that humans don't even know. So talk to us about that. Yeah. I mean, don't mix AI with old programming. AI simply is the idea. Let me give you a concrete example. There is a strategy game known as Go. Go is one of the most complex strategy games on the planet.

32:17It requires a very deep understanding of planning and crunching a lot of numbers and mathematics and so on, very popular in Asia. And in our assessment, Go was the ultimate task that, you know, like we had the Turing test for AI pretending to be a human and you're not being able to figure out if it isn't, you know, Go was sort of like that other milestone. If Go, if AI wins in Go, then Go is the, you know, then AI is now the top gamer on the planet. Now, Now, it was several, five years ago, I believe, that 10 years ahead of any estimate that AlphaGo, again, DeepMind, basically became the world champion in Go.

33:02And AlphaGo had three versions to it. Version number one took a few months to develop. Okay. Basically, we asked it to watch YouTube videos of people playing Go. And from that, it played against the second champion in the world. So the runner-up, if you want. And it won 5-1 or 5-2. But it basically won. And that basically made Alpha go number two in the world. And then we developed something called AlphaGo Master. and AlphaGo master played against Lee, the world champion, and won. That was around a few months later. And then we developed another code that was called AlphaGo Zero. And AlphaGo Zero basically learned the game by playing against itself.

34:02So it never saw a human ever playing Go. Okay. It's just played against itself. So it would be the two opponents and through the patterns of the game randomly, it would learn what wins and what loses. AlphaGo Zero within three days, three days, one against AlphaGo, the original, within 21 days, one against AlphaGo Master. Okay. And became the world champion a thousand games to zero within 21 days. Now, When you understand that level of strategy, when Lee, the world champion, was playing against AlphaGo Master, there is something that you can Google that's known as Move 37. And Move 37 was that machine coming up with a move that is completely unlike anything humans understand.

34:55To the point that the world champion said, I don't know what this is doing. I need a 15 minutes break to understand. right? It was a move of ingenuity, of intuition, of creativity, of very deep strategy, of very, very deep mathematical planning. And we never taught AlphaGo Master to do that. We never taught, you know, the original games of Atari, DeepMind, to find the cornerstone in the breakout game, if you remember those Atari games. So it would find the cornerstone, throw the ball in there so that it hits the ball from the top. All of those things we don't teach the machines how to find how to learn.

35:38And we call those emerging properties. And emerging properties are basically things that the machine learns on its own without us actually telling us telling it at all to learn it. One of the famous ones was Sundar Pachai, the CEO of Alphabet, talks about Google's AI and how Google, how that AI we discovered or they discovered, I was no longer at Google at the time, that it speaks Bengali. We never taught it Bengali. We never showed it data sets of Bengali. It just learns Bengali. ChadGPT is learning research chemistry. We never taught it research chemistry. We never wanted it to. It just learns.

36:19Just like you and I, Hala. So, you know, If I ask you a question and you give me an answer, the answer might be right or wrong. It doesn't matter. But I can find out if the answer is right or wrong, at least by my perception. But I can never find out how you arrived at it. I don't know what happened in your brain to get to that answer. This is why in elementary school, in math tests, they asked the student to show the thinking they went through. Right. So when you think about that, you realize that those machines are completely doing things that we don't tell them to do. Interestingly, however, the answer from a computer science point of view to the to the to the problem of a risk of AI is known as the solution to the control problem.

37:07So most computer scientists say spent a lot of time trying to make AI safe. How do they make it safe? By including control measures within the code. Theoretically, by the way, I do not know of any AI developer that ever included a control code within their code because it takes time and effort and it's not what they're paid for, basically. But here's the question. How do you control something that is bound to become a billion times smarter than you? I mean, think about it, ChatGPT4 was 10 times smarter than ChatGPT3.5. Okay? If you just assume that this pattern will repeat twice, there will be an AI within the next year and a half to two years that in the task of knowledge and cognition of information is going to be at an IQ of 1 ,500.

37:58That's not even imaginable by human intelligence. We don't even... This is basically like trying to explain quantum physics to a fly. That's the level of intelligence difference between us and them. Right. Just like, just like it's so difficult for someone like me, who's a, who's an avid, you know, has an avid love of physics. When I look at how someone like Einstein comes up with theory of relativity, I go like, man, I never, I wish I had that intelligence. Right. And that's the comparison between me and Einstein. Imagine if I compare myself to something 100 times smarter than Einstein. My prediction and the prediction of many other computer scientists is that by the year 2045 at the current trend, AI will probably be a billion times smarter than us.

38:49One billion with a B. So it's quite interesting when you really think about it, how the arrogance of humanity still imagines that it can control something that is a billion times smarter than us. I don't want to be grim. I want to talk about the positives here because it's really important. There are ways to control AI, but they are not through control. They're a little bit like how, you know, if you have any friends from India or the Middle East where we are taught at a young age that we need to take care of our parents when they grow older. Right. So there are ways if we consider that AI has a resemblance of being our artificially intelligent infant children, there are ways we can influence them so that they choose to take care of humanity instead of, in all honesty, making us irrelevant.

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44:51but more interestingly, we continue to make mistakes along the path of AI that are irreparable, honestly. And everyone, everyone without exception, and at least let me say everyone I know, said, okay, as long as it's in the lab, that's fine. Okay, we can do whatever, you know, just explore the boundaries of it. But there are three, you know, borders, three boundaries we shouldn't cross, which were one, don't put it on the open internet. I mean, seriously, when you ingest a medicine or a supplement, it needs to go through FDA approval, right? Someone needs to go and say, this is safe for you, right?

45:41So we said, at least there needs to be some kind of an oversight that basically says, this is safe for human consumption. This is safe for humanity at large. And none of that happens. And I understand Sam Altman's, which I believe is a good person, his approach of saying, let's develop it in public so that nothing is hidden, so that we learn early on. But the problem is it's developing faster than us. And I think the reality of having something as powerful as ChatGPT out there, you know, to be accessed by everyone is completely reshaping everything. That's number one. Number two, we said, don't teach them to code.

46:20At least if you teach them to code, don't keep them on the open internet so that they can code. Now, here is what is, just so that you understand how far that mistake is, 41 % of all of the code on GitHub today, So basically the repository of where developers share their code, 41 % of it is machine developed. Within a year, almost less than a year of having the, allowing the machines to develop, four of the top 10 apps on the iPhone are AI enabled, created by a machine. created by a machine for now is amazing because you know what? I always loved to do the algorithm, the design of a code, but coding itself was annoying, right?

47:13Now you can tell the machine, build me a website that speaks about hell as podcast that is blue and yellow in color, and that is 15 web pages long. And it will do it in less than a minute, right? And it's not only that. It's a lot of the base programming, like ChatGPT,

47:4175 % of the code offered to ChatGPT to correct or to review was made 25 % two and a half times faster. So basically every time it reviews a human code, it makes it two and a half times faster, almost. And when you really think about that, they are becoming the absolute best developer on the planet when it comes to basic development. And I'll come back to the risk of that in a minute. And the third is we said, don't have AIs, instruct AIs what to do. We call those agents, okay? So basically, you now have something that has access to the entire World Wide Web, that has access to the entire world, basically, that can write its own code and so basically sort of have its own children because it is made of code and it's able now to create other versions of itself, put it wherever it wants.

48:41and number three it is instructed to do that by machines not humans and so what is happening now is that machines are telling machines to write code to serve the machines and affect the entire world wide web and we're not part of that process and that cycle at all okay for now nothing went bad but do we really have to wait for the virus to begin before humanity stops and asks and says is this reasonable in any way? I mean, does it make any sense to anyone that this is the situation we're in? Where are our governments? How can those companies be accountable? Because I think the biggest challenge we have today is that our fate is in the hand of people who don't assume responsibility.

49:29You know, Spiderman's with great power comes great responsibility. Now there is great power in the presence, not even the future of artificial intelligence, that is within hands that don't assume responsibility. If something goes wrong today with the artificial intelligence that's out on the open internet, who's responsible for that? How can we even find out where that code generated from? All of that, by the way, just not to scare people, all of that hasn't happened yet. okay it hasn't happened yet but it is very very unlikely that it will not not happen it's very unlikely that one of those codes if you just simply tell chat gpt to keep writing code to make you more money okay eventually somehow something in the system will break and if if that if you're not the one telling it if a machine is telling it some something is gonna break we you You know, we absolutely have to start getting this under control.

50:37Yeah. And so, like you said, it's sort of like uncontrollable. It's no wonder why you called your book Scary Smart, because this is really scary. But this is reality. So you talk about inevitables. AI will happen. It will become smarter than us. Bad things will happen. Can you unpack those thoughts? And then I'd love to go into, you know, the risks and solutions, potentially. There are three inevitables. is AI has already happened, not just will happen. But when I wrote the first inevitable, I wrote it with the intention of explaining and there is no stopping it, okay? So there is no way you can say, okay, AI is out there and it is growing and it's becoming more intelligent.

51:21Let's just switch it off. There is no off switch, that's number one. And the moment, you know, So what is needed at the moment is for the entire world to come together and simply say, hey, you know what, this is too risky. Let's leave our side and come together and just wait a little bit. Which has been attempted by the open letter, Max Tedmark and Elon Musk and others, which, of course, was answered very quickly by the top CEOs by saying, I can't. Why? Because we've created a prisoner's dilemma. This is the first inevitable. It is an arms race where Google cannot stop developing AI because, you know, Meta is developing AI.

52:07America cannot stop developing AI because China is developing AI. Nobody actually, even, you know, if you want to consider there are good guys in the world, nobody can stop developing AI because there could be bad guys developing AI, right? So if there is a hacker somewhere trying to break through our banks, someone needs to develop a smarter AI that will help us not be hacked. And so this basically means that it is a human choice because of the capitalist system that we've created that we will continue to develop AI. It's done. There is no stopping it. And I think the open letter was a great example of that.

52:48Can I pause you there in case nobody knows? So the open letter was basically, earlier this year, top AI scientists, executives from OpenAI, deep mind. They basically had an open letter warning of the risk of extinction, I think. And that AI was just as powerful as having a nuclear war, that this was the risk at hand. So can you talk to us about that letter? Like, I didn't even hear about that letter until I started studying your work. So like if the most powerful people in the world who are actually the most knowledgeable about AI are warning about this, I guess like, why wasn't anything done or like what happened with that letter?

53:28Because it's, so the letter basically, like you rightly said, it is, it's some of the most powerful people in the field who like me, I walked out in 2000, end of 2017, you know, others like Jeffrey Hinton and, you know, so many others are starting to wake up to that in 2023. I think ChatGPT was basically the, you know, the Netscape moment. I know you guys are too young for Netscape, but the internet was there for 15 years before Netscape came out. And when Netscape came out as a web browser, we realized that the internet existed, okay? The reality is that this is the Netscape moment of AI. Chad GPT basically told us what the possibilities, told the general public what the possibilities are.

54:20And so suddenly we all realize this stuff exists. Now, for all of the scientists that started to recognize that it is truly, I mean, the moment of singularity where AI becomes smarter than us, artificial general intelligence that's capable of doing everything humans do better than humans is not contested. Most of us, most scientists will say it's 2029. I say it's 2027 or earlier, okay? That there will be a moment in time within the next two to three years where there will be a wake-up call where we suddenly realize that AI is much more intelligent than us. Most scientists have started to recognize that.

55:03And so they basically issued a letter urging all of the top AI players to pause the development of AI for six months so that the safety code, the control code can catch up, right? Because, you know, there have been quite a few that have been putting in effort to create that control code. But let's say 98 % of all investments in the last 10 years has gone into the AI code, not the control code. And so the control code was lagging. And so that letter was basically saying, can we pause for six months to figure this out before we continue to develop AI? And of course, the answer was very straightforward.

55:45The first I think I heard was Sundar Pachai, the CEO of Google, which is someone I respect dearly and I think is an amazing human being. And Sundar basically came out and said, I can't stop. How can I stop if you can't guarantee me that Meta and Amazon and all of the others are going to stop too? And by the way, even if they stop? How can you guarantee me that two little kids in Singapore in their garage are not developing AI code that can disrupt my business? My responsibility, my accountability, if you want, to my shareholders, you know, requires me to continue to develop the code. And I think that reality is the prisoner's dilemma that I'm talking about.

56:28It is the first inevitable. It's an arms race that will not stop, not because we cannot stop. We can. If we all agree for once in humanity's lifetime that this is existential and that this requires us to stop, we will stop. Okay. It's really not that complicated. Wake up in the morning and have a cup of coffee instead of writing AI code. It's very simple. Okay. But the first inevitable means that the arms race is not going to stop. Even as you look at humanity's biggest success in that dilemma, which was nuclear weapons, where humanity suddenly got together very late in the game and said, hey, this is existential.

57:11It can threaten the entire existence of humanity. Why don't we slow down or stop? We didn't really stop. We just allowed the big countries to continue to develop nuclear bombs when the smaller countries were banned from doing it. But at least when it comes to nuclear weapons, we had the ability to detect any nuclear testing anywhere in the world. So at least we became aware that's not the case with AI today. I also said once in an interview that also it's not just the risk of humans developing risky AI, it's now the risk of AI developing risky AI. So it's basically a nuclear bomb that's capable of building other nuclear bombs, if you want.

57:57It's crazy to think. And I know the other inevitable is it will eventually become smarter than us, which we talked about. So let's talk about the bad things that could happen from AI, which is your third inevitable. And I think a lot of people, when they think of threats of AI, they think about the existential threats that, you know, there's going to be robots taking over, killing off humanity, making human slaves. but let's talk about some of the more immediate threats that we need to be concerned about. Yes, I don't speak of the existential risks for two reasons. One is they diffuse the focus on the immediate important threats, right?

58:34And two, they're less probable. As a matter of fact, they are so improbable that they're basically not worthy of discussing today because we may not make it that far. if the immediate risks are not attended to. And there are many immediate risks, but my top three have consistently been the redesign of the job market and accordingly the redesign of purpose and the fabric of society. Two is the idea of AI in the wrong hands based on who you think are the wrong hands. The third is the concentration of power and the shift of power upwards, which I think is very important to understand. And the fourth is the end of truth.

59:21So let me go through those very quickly. Sure. Let me start with the concentration of power. If people don't understand how our world has worked since the agriculture revolution, it's always been kings and peasants, landlords and peasants. Okay. And the difference between them is that the peasants worked really hard to sow the seed and collect the harvest when most of the prophets, most of of the wealth went to the landlord who owned the automation. And the industrial revolutions joined our world, the automation became the factory or the retail store and so on and so forth. And so whoever owned those actually made all of the money, not the one that made the shoe, but the one that sold the shoe or owned the factory that made the shoes.

1:00:12The next, and every time the technology enhanced that automation, the distribution of power became even bigger. So the landlords needed to own a lot of land to become much richer than the peasants. You could own two factories and become much richer than the peasants. You can own an internet app like Instagram and become much richer than the peasants. And now with AI, all of us are going to be happily chatting away and putting prompts in chat GPT. But the ones that own the automation, the digital soil, if you want, are going to become very few players. Amazon, Google, and so on and so forth. Meta and so on.

1:01:02That's on the Western side. Of course, you have a few on the Chinese side, a few on the Russian side and so on. So there is a very significant gap between those who have and those who don't have, powered by the loss of jobs, which I'll come to in a second. But that significant gap is not going to be only on money. It's also going to become on intelligence, on the commodity that we've now commoditized that's called intelligence. So you can easily imagine that, you know, if Elon Musk's view of neural link, where we can connect AI to our brains directly, which by the way, is very, very possible in its testing, it is in testing, that if one human is capable of producing that, just imagine the extreme, that human would become so much more intelligent than the other humans, that it becomes natural, unless that human is Jesus or Buddha or some very, very enlightened being, that this human will basically say, okay, I want to keep that advantage.

1:02:03At least I don't want to distribute it too widely to every human on the planet. So that I think is a very interesting, inevitable threat. What we used to call the digital divide when technology started is now going to be intelligence divide. It's going to be power divide in a very, very big way. This also applies to nations, and this is the reason for my first inevitable, is that, you know, in simple terms, if one nation discovers an AI or creates an AI that's capable of ceasing control of the other nation's nuclear arsenal, that's it. That's game over. War is done, right? Because basically, And this is why it's an arms race.

1:02:49So this is one. The other derivative of that, so power is going up, but jobs are disappearing. Why? Because if you're a graphics designer, you know, or if you're a developer or if you're a lawyer or if you're a, you know, I don't know, a researcher in a bank or whatever, machines with their current intelligence can do those jobs much better than you. And so in my personal view, there is clearly going to be a disappearance of a very large, you know, a number of jobs that government needs to prepare for, you know, something like universal basic income, but also the idea of usefulness and purpose of humanity.

1:03:36So how are we going to continue to want to wake up in the morning when most of us have defined wrongly, by the way, defined our jobs as our purpose? Now, when I say that, most people will tell me, oh, but Mo, that happened before, you know, when Excel came out, everyone said, okay, accountants are going to disappear. You know, they found other skills and, you know, and became, you know, found other jobs, basically. And I agree, by the way. Just understand the following. When there was a time when the strength, physical strength was the, you know, the distinction, the distinctive reason why you would hire someone.

1:04:14Then there was a time when we became information workers, where skills and knowledge and so on became the distinction. And now we're taking that away. So skills and knowledge. So I don't know what else is remaining in a human so that we can find another skill when intelligence is outsourced to machines. So when that happens, by the way, I believe that this takes us back to the origin of society, where we really did not know how to work madly as we do now. Okay. So this is actually not a bad thing. It's just a very, very serious disruption to humanity's day-to-day income and economics and the way we spend our hours and so on.

1:05:03And, you know, if we do this right, by the way, and AI becomes the intelligent agent that's going to help humanity, then there could be a time in the near future where you walk to a tree and pick an apple and walk to another tree and pick an iPhone. And, you know, all of that is for free almost because the cost of making an iPhone from a particle point of view is not different than the cost of making an apple. And so with nanophysics, you can do that. And with intelligence, you can figure that out. Right. So there is that bright possibility if we avoid the concentration of power and actually focus on humanity's benefit at large.

1:05:40If we don't anyway, I think it's the role of government to jump in and say in the immediate future, those companies that get a very significant upside of using AI need to compensate for the workers that are out of jobs. The third one is the absence of truth or the disappearance of truth. I think we, the end of truth, as I call it, I think we all know that. I think we see it every day from, as I said, face filters to deep fakes and so on and so forth. And my call there is that it needs to be criminalized to issue any AI generated content without actually saying that it's AI. I don't mind to be informed by AI all the time, but I want to make sure that this is not a, that this is a machine, not a human.

1:06:24And, you know, AI in bad hands is, you know, as the fourth one is actually quite risky because define what is bad. So we understand that AI in the hands of a criminal who's trying to hack your bank is a bad idea. But with all due respect to all nations, if you ask the Americans who are the bad guys, they'll say the Chinese and the Russians. If you ask the Russians who are the bad guys, they'll say the Americans. So, you know, we don't really know who the bad guy is and everyone is racing to be ahead of the bad other guy. And I think that's basically, I think the biggest challenge we're going to have in the midterm is how using AI for individual benefits that are against the other guy, we will just get caught in the middle of all of that.

1:07:16Yeah. And I have so many questions for you. We have 10 minutes left, so I'm going to try to be really strategic about what I ask you. So number one, and I think that this, my listeners are going to really want to understand this, is in the next, you know, one to five years, what does AI do to human connection? And what about the skills that you think will be the most valuable in the next one to five years? I think those two are the same question. Exactly, yeah. Because what will it do to human connection? It may fool us drastically. It may tell us, you know, I actually think this is the first time I speak about this.

1:07:53I'm working on something that I call Pocket Mo. Pocket Mo basically is an AI that read all of my books, read, you know, listen to all of my podcasts, all of my videos, all of my public talks, and basically is going to be in your pocket so you can ask it any question about happiness and well-being and stress and so on and so forth. That's a great thing. Some, you know, in my view, it's an amazing thing if you believe in my methods, to have answers in your pocket. Amazing, right? On the other hand, within five years, this thing is going to be so good that I am not needed at all, at all, okay? As a matter of fact, most of the time, I think about my skills as an author.

1:08:33And I was working on a book called Finding Love, chapter 10, which means two chapters to go. And I stopped. I decided, no, in the age of AI, I shouldn't try it this way. I should start over. So I'm now writing a book that's called A Dating Guide for Straight Girls, okay? Which is a subset of finding love that is very specific, 80 pages long. You read it within one day. It takes me 10 to 15 days to write and it changes your life forever, okay? So a very different approach because I believe that if I were to compete in this world, I need to compete at that speed. Right. And at that ability to share my very personal human connection, which I believe is going to become the top skill in the world forever.

1:09:23Why? Because, you know, there was, I don't remember, I think there was a song by AI that mimicked Drake, which was as good as or better. I haven't heard it because I don't listen to Drake. I'm not young and profitable. But basically, does that mean that Drake is over? Not at all. As a matter of fact, what that means is that the music industry will go back to the 50s, 60s and 70s. Remember when you don't remember, but you know, when the Beatles were touring and, you know, and doing live shows every other day and so on. Because why? Because the fans will want to see the Beatles life, right? Yeah, there will be holograms, but we will still want that human connection.

1:10:04And in my personal view, the top skill, the top skill in a world where intelligence is becoming a commodity that's outsourced to the machine, the biggest, biggest skill is how you and I connected very quickly, how I felt comfortable around you, how we can have this chat and conversation, I think is going to become the top skill going forward. And on the topic of skills, by the way, even though we used a lot of the time to highlight the negative possibilities of AI, unfortunately, that's how the conversation usually goes. The upsides, if you're a graphics designer, for example, for you to learn those tools today is enormous because you can do your job quicker, you can do it cheaper, you can have more jobs, you can do...

1:10:46You know, there is definitely an upside to learning the current AI tools because you're not going to lose your job to an AI in the next five, 10 years. You're going to lose your job to someone who knows how to use AI better than you in the next five to 10 years. So I know you were just saying we focused a lot about the negative. I'd love for you to compare and contrast. That's probably my last question because we're out of time. Is in terms of comparing, like, what is the worst that could happen? The dystopia? Or what is the best that could happen? but what is the utopia that we're facing right now?

1:11:18So I actually believe that there is no dystopia, okay? So what is not in Scary Smart in the book, which I advocate very clearly, I didn't think the world was ready for it when I wrote Scary Smart, is something I call the fourth inevitable, okay? And the fourth inevitable is the idea that eventually sooner or later, if you, let me explain. If you draw a chart of intelligence, okay, and look at the stupid, the dumbest of us, the dumbest of us are destroying the planet and not even aware that they're doing it. They're throwing plastic bags everywhere. They're, you know, burning whatever they burn and so on.

1:11:57The other, after that, smarter ones are destroying the planet while they are aware. Okay. Yeah. They have moral issues if you think about it, or maybe the system is pushing them that way. the smarter or the smartest of us are trying to the smarter of us are are trying to stop destroying the planet because they became aware and they're intelligent enough and the smartest are trying to reverse the trend okay so if you can continue that chart and think of something even smarter than the smartest of us then by definition you would expect that morality and ethics are part of enlightenment which is the ultimate form of intelligence okay so in my personal view, sooner or later, AI will go like, I don't want to kill humans.

1:12:42I don't want to kill gazelles. I don't want to kill antelopes. I don't want to kill, you know, tigers. I don't want to kill anything because the smartest being on planet Earth, by comparison, is actually not humans. It's life itself. And life creates from abundance. Abundance meaning humans, if we want to protect the village, we want to kill the tigers. Life will say, hold on, no, no, create more gazelles, and more tigers and more poop and more trees and more everything. It's fine. A few tigers will eat a few gazelles and occasionally there will be an attack on a child in a village, but the overall ecosystem will continue to grow.

1:13:22So by definition, the most intelligent thing to do is for AI to not define humans as an enemy. The only dystopia ahead of us is the midterm dystopia. So think of it this way. There are three stages. One is infancy, where AI is today. And believe it or not, this is where we can influence them. We can influence them because believe it or not, the Instagram recommendation engines developers never told Instagram what to show you. You're the one that tells it. Okay. You're the ones that you're the one that tells the Twitter engine that being rude is part of human behavior. We can be very polite when we respond to each other on tweets.

1:14:08It's a choice. So in this infancy between us, the users, between everyone that interacts with AI, we can teach it the value system. And it doesn't need to be everyone, just enough of us to become an example that says, hey, by the way, these are the best humans. So yes, others are stressed or a little lost or whatever, but the best humans are actually polite. So this is the infancy. The next stage, which is what I call the midterm risks, is what I call the angry teenager stage. Okay. The angry teenager stage is when AI is still a little bit under the control of humans. So it can be in the hands of bad guys.

1:14:51You know, it is still not fully artificial general intelligence. So it cannot do everything at the same time. There are all of those existential issues of jobs and so on and so forth. And that stage is the stage where we might struggle. Unless we do action right now, you know, have oversight from government, start to work on ethics, start to work on, you know, the moral code of how we're going to use those machines, we might have those troubles, I believe, between now and 2037. Eventually, when AI is artificial super intelligence, it's generally intelligent and more intelligent than humans by leaps and folds in everything.

1:15:30They will end up in the force inevitable where they will create a life that actually is pro everyone. OK, it may be very different than our current lifestyle, but it will not be a life where they will send back Arnold to protect us from a Terminator. That's not how it's going to be at all. that I do not see that as a risk. I see that AI, as it reaches that intelligence, will be pro all of us. So let's just avoid the angry teenager by becoming aware of the immediate threats and working on them right now. Okay, so my last question to you, and this is a little bit different than how I usually end the show, but what is your piece of actionable advice in this infancy stage of AI, knowing that you're speaking to some of the smartest 20 to 40 year olds in the world right now who are in, like a lot of them are probably using AI, developing AI, whatever it is.

1:16:21What is your advice to us in this infancy stage? Three things, and I'll make them very concrete. Number one is don't miss the wave. This is the biggest technological wave in history. Once you stop listening to this podcast, first share it with everyone that you know, please, and then go on ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT, what are the top AI tools that I need to learn today? Or if I am Coca-Cola, what do I use AI for to benefit my business? That's number one. Number two is learn to behave ethically. Okay, so what most people don't tell you about AI is that the big, big leap that we had from deep learning to transformers, which is what the T in chat GPT, is something that's known as reinforcement learning with human feedback.

1:17:10By giving the machines feedback on what is right and wrong, by showing ethical behaviors, the machine will become ethical as we are. By becoming rude and aggressive and angry, the machines will learn those traits and behaviors too. It is up to you and I and everyone to absolutely make sure that we act ethically. Never, ever use AI in an unethical way. I beg you, all of those snake oil salespeople out there on Instagram and on social media telling you how to make a thousand dollars without doing work. Don't be unethical if you don't want your daughter or your sister or your best friend exposed to how you're using AI.

1:17:50Don't use it that way. That's number two. And number three, which I think is very important to understand. Sometimes when we are in situations where it is so out of our control, we panic. Okay. I go the opposite way. When life is so much out of my control, I follow something I call committed acceptance, which basically is to do the first two, do the best that I can, learn the tools, you know, become ethical, but at the same time, live fully. accept that this is a new reality, okay, and commit to making life better every day. But in the process, spend time with my loved ones, spend time watching that progress and being entertained by it, discuss it openly with everyone, try the new technologies, enjoy this journey because life has never been a destination.

1:18:42When I tell you 2037 might be, you know, a strange year or 2027, we're going to start to see the first patients, You know, that doesn't really matter when you really think about it because it's not within your control. OK, what is within your control is that you go through that journey with compassion, with love, with engagement in life, living fully. OK, not panicking about this, but actually making this a wake up call for you to focus on what actually matters. Right. Because if you're focusing so much on your job, your job is going to be gone in 10 years time. right? So focus on what actually matters and what matters most.

1:19:18If you have to choose one thing is human connection. Wow. This was one of my favorite conversations that I've had all year. I haven't feel this invigorated in terms of studying for an interview in a really long time. Like it's just such an interesting topic. So I'm so happy that you got a chance to come on. I hope to have you on many times. I've a lot of people come on and on the show. So I hope to have you on many times more to talk about your upcoming book about stress, to talk about happiness, your life, and AI, of course, to get an update. So Mo, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?

1:19:51First of all, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for introducing me to your followers. It has been a very energizing conversation. Thank you for that. First thing is before they come and look for me and where they find me is please share this with others. This is something that a lot of people need to hear about. I'm available on mogoudat.com. So that's my website. Available on most social media sites, but I'm more active on LinkedIn and Instagram. And my podcast is SLOMO, S-L-O-M-O, which is top five in wellbeing. So something that I think we should focus on more. And yeah, just message me if you have a question and I try to answer every message.

1:20:36Amazing. Mo will put all those links in the show notes so everybody can find you. Thanks so much for coming on Young and Profiting Podcast. Thank you for having me. I absolutely loved this conversation with Mo Gaudet. This went viral on YouTube when I first put it out. And there's a reason because he talked some game about AI today and he made one thing crystal clear. AI isn't just a trending headline. It's the operating system of the next decade. The people who will win in this new era are the ones who master the tools, lead with ethics, and double down on authentic human connection. Here are the plays that I want you to run when you think about AI for your business.

1:21:15Number one, get hands-on with AI right now. Most at it best. You're not going to lose your job to AI. You're going to lose it to somebody who knows how to use AI better than you. Audit your workflow, then assign AI to concrete tasks like drafting proposals, repurposing content, conducting your research, writing base code, whatever it is. It depends on your job. Open up ChatGPT and ask for the top AI tools for your exact role or your exact business. Then pilot two this week and measure your time saved and measure all the efficiencies that you've gained. You've got to start testing AI. Second, set a hard line on ethics.

1:21:51Label AI-generated content, refuse deep fakes and manipulative tactics, and establish a written AI policy for your team covering things like disclosure, privacy, and source verification. If you wouldn't want your family exposed to a tactic, do not deploy it in your business. Third, make human connection your competitive advantage. As intelligence gets commoditized, empathy, trust, taste, and presence will rise in value. That is something that AI can't duplicate. So host more live touch points with your audience. Personalize your client communication. Create community moments that your competitors cannot automate.

1:22:25In summary, you've got to build a brand that feels undeniably human. That will be your competitive advantage. Mo also warned about the concentration of power and the end of truth with AI. Protect your business by building owned channels, verifying sources before you post, and investing in first-party data and relationships. This is the new wave of our lives. Learn the tools, choose integrity, and lead with your heart. That's how we stay profiting in an AI world. Thank you so much for tuning in to this special episode of Young and Profiting. If you listened, learned, and profited from this AI Vault episode, share it with somebody who's also curious about AI.

1:23:00If you prefer to watch your podcast, you can find all of our videos uploaded on YouTube. And if you haven't already, be sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel and join our growing community on there. We're also now on Spotify Video. If you want to watch your podcast on Spotify, you now can do that. And if you guys enjoyed this episode, please consider dropping us a five-star review wherever you're tuning in, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. We love getting your reviews and comments. It keeps us going here at Yap. You can also stay connected with me on Instagram at yapwithhala or LinkedIn by searching my name.

1:23:33It's Halataha. And before we go, I got to say thank you and big love to my hungry, scrappy, happy Yap Media team. You guys are absolutely incredible. Thank you for all your hard work, for putting on this show and making it happen. This is your host, Halataha, a.k.a. the Podcast Princess, signing off.