Shelby Haas-Sapp: The Sales Psychology That Gets Buyers to Sell Themselves | Sales | YAPClassic

23:47And so what that basically means is you need to establish your credibility as somebody that knows her stuff, knows exactly why they're on the call, isn't getting on the call and saying, oh, where are you based out of? Oh my gosh, I love your outfit. Oh, where is it from? It's like, no, just get to the actual point of the call first or else the rapport

24:06Hala Taha:can actually have a negative effect on you. So I like to teach my girls to really establish that credibility early on into the pitch. And then you open up the rapport for the question-based selling. And for women, this is the biggest part to let the other person talk a little bit more. So asking really good questions in order to get somebody to open up. And then also being super simple when it comes to closing. A lot of women try to talk a lot when it comes to the close and almost like justify why the prices are there when somebody didn't even ask. You know, they could have been able to 100 % afford it.

24:48And they're like, yo, so this is a price, you know, it's because there's a lot that goes into it and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, this is the price. Shut up.

24:56Hala Taha:Yeah. I always say, kiss them. Keep it simple, stupid. Just shut up. So that's more for the women is really leading with that respect, getting them to open up to you and then ending with the respect. It's like a little sandwich. Okay. For the men, I like to have men be a little bit more warm in the beginning and then leading with the credibility and then a little bit more warm at the end. So it's almost a flip-flop. Okay. Just because I think, especially if they're selling to another woman, if there's a man on the other side of the screen, they're almost like, oh, sales rep. So they have the stigma of like, oh, this is just another sales bro, sales guy.

25:33So when they kind of drop that boundary and they're a little bit more human in the beginning, it's a plus size or a plus side for the men. And how about a woman selling to a woman? Okay. So woman selling to a woman, a lot of the girls that I trained in the beginning, they're like, oh girl, like they try to go the bestie route too soon. And it comes off a little fake and women buyers have such good intuition. So it's really good to connect, but making sure that it's not a fake connection. So I always like to lead with like the business first. And then if I genuinely like love her shirt or I genuinely love the way she carries herself or talks, I'm going to say that, but I'm not just going to try to be all bestie bestie with her when it comes off fake because they can sniff that.

26:19And as soon as that happens, it's completely, completely done.

26:23Hala Taha:Yeah, fam. One of the most exciting things happening in our business is that we're building Yap Media HQ right here in Austin, the podcast capital of the world. And we are hiring like crazy in Austin. We've got five open positions based in Austin alone. And I don't have a lot of time to think about hiring. I'm building studios. I'm building an office. There's so much going on and I don't have a recruitment agency that I work with. I feel like they're so expensive. I trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. I don't want to post up a job on multiple job sites. I don't have time for that either. I want to reach the right people with the right skills, the right specifications, and the right location.

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29:41Hala Taha:Give your business the rock-solid foundation it needs with AT &T Business so you can step into your CEO energy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. Okay, how about selling to an alpha male versus a beta male? I love this one. So selling to an alpha male, you have to make him think that it's his decision. You can never tell him like, okay, yeah, this is your problem. This is the solution. Like, this is how much it's going to be. Let's go. He's going to be like, no, I think that it should be done this way. Or in the back of his head, he's going to be like, well, we've tried that before.

30:18Or I need to look at this competitor first. It's his decision. So I always like to say things kind of like, okay, well, I mean, you're the one that's been dealing with this for so long. Like, why do you think this is happening? Or, I mean, I'm sure you guys have tried so many things. I mean, you've been in business for quite some time. Like, what else have you guys tried? And like, why didn't that work out? And they, this is the point where they yap, yap, yap. And they're like, oh my gosh, well, Stacy tried to do this and that didn't work. And then we tried this and blah, blah, blah. And then it's perfect.

30:49You're giving me so much ammo that I'm going to use later on when I'm more of just the helper and the problem solver rather than a sales rep at the end. So the alpha males, yeah, you have to like put them up on a pedestal and make them feel all good about themselves in order to really let them be super comfortable buying from you. Beta males, also some of my favorite sales ever. I have a lot of vivid memories selling beta males. Very funny. I remember this one time. This was maybe my first year doing door-to-door sales. I remember sitting down on a curb at a grown man's house for him with 45 minutes going over everything, every question.

31:34He just can't make a decision. And I just told him, I'm like, okay, Ben, like, it's 830. What's your last name? And he was like, let's just say Blanco. He's like, Blanco, but why? And I'm like, we're signing you up. That's it. We've been talking for way too long. I'm going home. Like, we're just signing you up. You need it. And he was like, okay, if you're going to make me do it. I'm like, what? So beta is not that extreme of a case, but they like when you outline a game plan. So they like when you listen to what they're saying, you really get that problem. And then you say, okay, a lot of people similar to that, what we've done with them is this, this, this, and this.

32:13and then they've gotten this and this result. So as soon as they know the game plan and the results that other people have, it makes it an easy yes for them because they're like, okay, I like being told what to do a little bit more.

32:25Hala Taha:That makes sense. And how can you tell if they're alpha or beta to begin with, like right at the start of the call, like what's your signals? Oh, so I feel like it is kind of an intuition thing, but a little bit more of alpha males, especially with a woman selling to them, will interrupt you a little bit or they'll kind of like dominate the conversation. So it's not like one specific cue or another. It's just like, okay, this guy needs to have his input in pretty much everything. Or they almost try to steer the call or just super loud. I hate when people call me like little lady. I feel like that's like a big cue that I get sometimes.

33:06And then beta males, they are a little bit more timid, a little bit, like they let you completely steer the call. And with that person, I'm going to maintain that control, outline that control, and then they're going to follow that control the whole way through.

33:21Hala Taha:Is it the same thing with selling to women? Can there be alpha women and beta women? Is it just basically the same? For sure. That makes sense. For sure. Yeah. It's just the women on women dynamic. You have to make sure that you're being like genuine and relatable to this girl and not super like unrelatable or try to be fake besties. Do you feel like as a woman, you should tone down your hair and makeup if you're going to sell to a woman? Yes. So I have, um, had a couple of girls that experiment with this and we had a little thread on it in my community. Yes. And I think that this makes you a little bit more relatable, but also like you want the client to feel like the superstar the whole time.

34:02You never want to be the one that's like shiny wearing all these fancy jewelry. Like, no, nobody wants to buy from somebody that looks like that. So people want to buy from somebody that like makes them feel good. It's the same thing with dating. I always relate a lot of sales stuff back to dating is like you could go on a date with a guy and you're like, oh my God, this guy is so cool. He's amazing. He's done all these things. That's so cool. Or you could go on a date with a guy and you walk away and you're like, he made me feel so cool. Like he made me feel like the shining star. And what you're going to do is you're probably going to go on a date with the guy that made you feel amazing more than the other guy.

34:40So that's how I always like to treat that dynamic with my clients is I want you to feel like that girl. That makes a lot of sense. And

34:49Hala Taha:I feel like especially after you close them, like let's say you have some sort of an agency, you have to keep continuing to see that person. You really don't always want to be like so dolled up to their like, oh, here you are coming on the call again, like so dolled up and we're just having a business meeting, you know? So I try to be very casual in those situations. Okay, last one, young versus old. Okay, so young people. So you can either sell with pain or pleasure. And everybody knows selling with pain is way better just because people buy with pain more than they buy with pleasure. People sell painkillers a lot easier than they sell vitamins, basically.

35:25So you always want to look for the pain and pleasure with every single person. So every single person is going to be different. You might be on a call with a young person who has a lot of pain. You're going to sell with that. But for the most part, generalization, young people are buying the dream and older people are buying a pain point. So you're selling a little bit more with dream state questions with young people of like, okay, you have so much potential. Like, where do you want to get to? I could see that for you versus older people. It's a lot of past stuff that you're bringing up, which is going to be more provoking questions, emotional pain.

36:00Um, and then I always like to say with old people, you need to let them talk about their life, maybe their, um, deceased wife or their grandkids or like whatever is going on in their life, but make sure that they're not wasting your time and like bring them back into the sale periodically. That way you're not stuck there talking about little Jimmy's football game last Sunday. And you're like, okay, like I'm here for a sales call.

36:31Hala Taha:So like, let's go, you know, I feel like older people, uh, and I'm talking about like 60 and up, you know, like they tend to ask a lot of questions and I feel like the sales process just takes longer. It does. They ask a lot of questions. They're scared of salespeople and they're not as trustworthy. And they seem to have a million questions. That's my experience. A million questions. They like to know every single scenario. And old people, yes, that's also a lot of the beta people too. And a lot of women too. Women love to know. They buy comfort. So they like to know every single detail, exactly what happens when you purchase, all the next steps and everything.

37:11So if somebody needs a little bit more comfort, I would say you sit there with them and you give them the comfort. And those people will be your best customers because they ask every single question in the book. You know, they won't come to you later being like, oh, well, I didn't know this. I didn't know this. I didn't know this. You're gonna be like, you asked me every single question. You know, like we went over everything. So in my experience, they're actually some of my favorite customers because they know what they're buying.

37:38Hala Taha:Yeah, I totally agree. So Shelby, you started your sales career with door-to-door selling. And I honestly couldn't think of a better sales training to get thicker skin, get comfortable with rejection. So first off, tell us about your door-to-door selling experience and what kind of sales skills did you learn? Everything under the sun. Oh my gosh. So I started doing door-to-door sales when I was 18 years old. I was working like all these different jobs in college. And I just remember thinking I'm going to be successful. I just don't know how. I was so scared of sales because that was the one like business internship that I haven't dabbled in.

38:14And so I remember talking to one of my mentors and he's like, yeah, I did door to door sales, great skill set, made a lot of money. And I'm like, okay, cool. So I'll go out and try it. I went out there. First of all, I almost quit before I went out there. Thank God I didn't quit because I wouldn't be here. But my first summer, it was amazing. I was the only girl and I really kind of like what you were saying when you, what you felt at your corporate job, that's kind of what I felt is like, no matter how much I sold, no matter how top of the leaderboards I was every single week, there's just a level of like respect that's hard to get when you work with either older people in a corporate setting or all guys, all sales bros.

38:54But I loved it. I just loved being able to walk up to a door and somebody opened the door and they're like, oh my gosh, how do I get this girl off of my door? I'm cooking dinner right now. Like I just put my kid to bed that, and then you say the right words and kind of like disarm them. And then they're giving you their Amex like 10 minutes later. It's the most confident building activity you could possibly do. And that skillset carries over so well. It's, I always like to say door-to-door sales is like the number one sales skill set that you could possibly get. It's the hardest because you have to go out to a market, obviously be in person, a lot more rejection.

39:36There's a lot better opportunities than door to door. But like starting out that skill set you'll learn is insane.

39:43Hala Taha:Yeah. Because it's like kind of like cold calling, but in real life and nobody invited you to their house. No, that's not like in a store. Like I got my sales skills. Like I I worked in so many clothing stores, right? Yeah. And that gave me a lot of experience, but people were coming into my house. Right. You're like going to, like they're like, we're like busy right now. Go away. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Busy right now. Sometimes like you even have to get them out of the house. So like everybody has the ring cameras now. A lot of people see a door-to-door sales rep and they're like, oh, they don't even answer the door.

40:14So a lot of it is like the art of trying to get somebody out of the house and piquing their curiosity within the first like five seconds. that way they just at least listen. Like a big thing with that industry is just getting people to listen to your sales pitch versus like what you're saying, warm leads. This is why like my academy is for high ticket sales because it's all warm leads. And I try to tell the girls, I'm like, you have no idea how good you have it. Like somebody's actively coming to you. Yep. Way different.

40:45Hala Taha:I would have killed for that. I know. So it's great skill set, but. Well, now you know how to handle rejection. And I know that you say we need to love rejection, not just like we need to love it. We need to make sure we're not being soft girls. So what do you mean by that? So, okay, there's a couple of things with that. Number one, the rejection thing. I always train people, especially with mindset because sales is a big with mindset, is it's pretty much a math equation. So if you're closing ratios, let's say 40%, that means every 10 people you talk to, you're going to close four of them. So if the first six that you talk to are just no, no, no, no, no.

41:20You should be so excited because literally mathematically, the next four are going to buy from you. They have to. And so you know that not every single person is going to say no to you forever. So the more no's you get, I look at it like you're just sifting through the non-qualified buyers and getting to the qualified buyers that are actually going to buy from you. So it's more like every time I get a no, I'm like, okay, for sure. Like, thank you. Like, I'll never call you again. Well, that's false because I will be blowing up your phone, but it's like, okay, done, done, done, done. And then I wait for the person that's like actually sitting down serious, ready to go.

41:56So yeah, the old saying of every nose closer to yes is so true, but it's more of like the mathematical reasoning behind it is true.

42:04Hala Taha:So that, and then the soft girl, I have a problem with the soft girl. I can't do it. It's a big trend right now. And it's like the soft girl, demure life, sitting back, relaxing, letting a man pay for your whole life, not really working too hard, letting everything come to you, attracting, which I'm all here for. A lot of the things that I do with my girls is mindset, spirituality, law of attraction, being delusional, manifestation. So I get that. But you can't just do that. You have to do that. and then you have to put your actions behind that. You have to put your money where your mouth is and actually show up.

42:46Like you can't show up to a sales call and be like, I'm going to manifest this person to buy. And then you get hit with one objection and you're like, yeah, for sure. I'll follow up with you tomorrow. It's like, no, you're going to sit there and it's going to be uncomfortable and it's going to require a lot of effort, but you're going to sit there. You're going to roll objection after objection after objection until they either buy from you or literally want to kill you. No, I'm kidding. But so I always tell my girls like, yes, you can be soft girl, but when it comes to sales and when it comes to like work, you're hard girl.

43:16So you can like turn it on and off. But if you want to make money, there's literally no way around it when it comes to sales.

43:23Hala Taha:Yeah. You got to just go after it. You got to make sure that they know that you know your stuff. And that's not a passive thing. That's like an alpha attitude that you have to have. It is. Yeah. So I see that trend. I'm like, I don't know about that. Yeah. And not to mention those girls that just get their lives paid for. They have no control over their lives at the end of the day. And well, and that's the thing is like money's energy. And so I totally get like, you know, you're marrying somebody and they want to take care of you. I love that because that's like a protective energy of like, you're good.

43:55I got you. But it shouldn't be the be all end all. Because what if said person leaves? Yeah. Which is a true reality. Nobody ever thinks they're going to leave in the beginning. So it's always knowing that you either have a skill set that you could turn into money at any point in time, which in my opinion, I could sell anything. You could sell anything. So it's like learning skill sets that can never be taken away from you or having a business that can never be taken away from you is always just the most confident building thing with a woman to know that she could if she wanted to, but also just the smartest.

44:28Hala Taha:Yeah, totally. Makes you more attractive too. So for sure, You were bringing up objections before. And I know there's like a limited number of things that people can really say. Like you can actually think through all the objections that somebody's going to have for your product or service. So I'm going to rattle off an objection. And then I want you to tell me how to respond. Okay. Okay. For sure. I love that. Okay. I need more time. How much time do you need? I don't know. Maybe a couple months. A couple months. Okay. Let's double it. I'll give you, you said you want one month. I'll give you two months.

45:02just because if we were to move forward, I would want to make sure that you are super sure, 100 % confident. Because in this program, these people are confident. These people are ready to go. And a big part of my job is making sure that everybody's good to go when they get in. That way we have proper testimonials. So if you're not there yet, let's just not make a decision. And in the meantime, while you're doing your job and kind of thinking about it, I'll do my job and send you over all of the information in order to make sure that when you do think about it, you'll have a really good educated decision.

45:32So what are two things you'd want me to include in those email flows? That way you can make an educated decision.

45:39Hala Taha:I love that. You're taking it away and people want what they can't have. So suddenly they're, oh no, no, I really only need, maybe I only need a week, you know? So you're taking away what they, you're taking it away now they can't have it. And it's kind of like the, that's what I say as like the hot girl is when it comes to a point, and normally this, I need to think about it, objection is just a smoke screen. So I handled it as it was a real objection. But most of the time it's a smoke screen. So it's just kind of like, no, for sure. And kind of like brush over it because people are just scared at the end of the day.

46:11But when it's a true, like you've done it a couple of times and they're like, no, I need to think about it. It's like, okay, give them the time then. But you give them fake time, the illusion of that. And then you can just get back into the sales pitch by giving them what they want, disarming them, and then getting back into the pitch.

46:27Hala Taha:So you're saying by asking them, like, what do you need to see in their proposal, you feel like that's going to shorten up the time that they actually wanted? Or just, like, they didn't really want the time, they wanted the information. Yes. So that was my point with that, is you would then say, oh, well, can you send me over some reviews? Can you send me over some testimonials? Can you send me over everything that's included, all the package options? And then as you're, like, typing up the email, you're like, oh my God, for sure. Like I actually have all of the testimonials pulled up here. Let me just show you.

46:58And then you're just right back into the sales pitch and you're showing them. If that doesn't work, another angle I like to use is convenience. And this is something that you tie back in from earlier is, you know, if you're a busy mom or you're a business owner, whatever you're doing, um, I always like to say, you can always think about it, but to be honest, like, do you want to think about it? You know, like you're a busy mom, you're a business owner, you're never going to have intentional time like we do right now to make a decision. And when it comes with a decision, maybe you need time, but what you need is more information in order to make a great decision.

47:33So we have the time and we have the information, which is me. Yeah. What are two things? Yeah.

47:38Hala Taha:And depending on the solution, if they say they need more time, we can be like, well, how much time have you wasted not making a decision or how much time and money are you going to lose if you wait two months to implement X, Y, Z, right? One of my favorite things too is when people are like, let me sleep on it. I always like to say, well, don't you get the best sleep when you already made a decision? It's already good to go. You're going to get the best sleep ever once we make that decision. So do you want to wait a while and be thinking about this every night? Oh, should I do this? Or do you want to just do it?

48:07We've been talking for like an hour. Let's just do it. You'll get the best sleep tonight. Let's go. Okay. How about it's too expensive? I mean, you get what you pay for. depends on what you're selling. But I always position myself as the most expensive person. So I'm telling this person, like, for sure, there's 40 other people lying down the street that'll take your business in a heartbeat. But when it comes to a service-based business, or when it comes to a fitness program, a health program, whatever you're selling, if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right. And so if you want cheap, that's definitely not us.

48:35There's other people. But if what you want is a great product or great service and a good reputation behind that, that's actually going to get you the results, then that's what we do. I love that.

48:44Hala Taha:And when somebody tells me I'm too expensive, so I know with me, like I have two businesses. I have my podcast network. I have my social media agency. And if somebody tells me my social, yeah, if somebody tells me my social media services are too expensive, we're like the number one LinkedIn marketing agency. We charge$10 ,000 a month for LinkedIn. So a lot of people are like, whoa, that's expensive. And I'll be like, well, do you sell? I'm like, are you selling right now? Yes. If I made you an influencer on LinkedIn and you got 10x to 100x more leads every month, you would make that$10 ,000 back right away, right?

49:19Exactly.

49:19Hala Taha:Given the track record of who stayed with you. I'm like, you know, I've had these clients that have been with me for six years and they're happily paying the 10k, you know? Well, and I also like to do the inverse. So you can do the positive of like, obviously, like it costs this much a month. But I mean, let's say we get you two clients to make that back in this, whatever. So that's the positive. But also the negative, which is the opportunity cost of like, okay, so you're right here. What's the cost of you not doing this? Let's say we can get you here and you're here. You're actually losing all of this over the next two months.

49:51So, you know, so you can take that positive, which I love. And then you can also do the negative if you want to get more mathematical and more granular about it in like a make money offer. So I love that.

50:00Hala Taha:Yeah. And it's really important to actually ask questions so that like, for example, I know how much they're charging for their offer, how they get leads, What are their typical way of getting leads? Do they close deals on their own? So it's important to know like whatever your business is, what questions do you need to ask the person so that if they do give you the objection, you're like, well, no, if you get two clients, it pays for the service. I'm going to get you 100 clients a month, you know? Well, that's the biggest thing with these objections that I try to teach my girls is in door-to-door, it was like objection central.

50:31But in high ticket and anything that's more warm leads than anything, you can do so much front-end work to where these objections shouldn't even really be that big of a deal towards the end. I call this shutting doors. So I basically say there's about six different doors that are open, you know, time, price, anything that they've done before, fear, priority, money. And you need to shut every single door. That way they can't open it back up later into the sales pitch. So like, for example, the objection that, you know, you just gave me the first one of, I need to think about it or it's not the right time.

51:09I would ask a question in the beginning of the sale saying something like, okay, well, I mean, you've been in this business for quite some time. Like, why haven't you done this before? Or on a scale from one to 10, how ready are you in order to get real results with it? And they'll say maybe, you know, seven. Okay, seven's really high, but why not a 10? What would make you a 10? And so those kind of like shutting the doors in the beginning will prevent them from saying, I need to think about it. And even if they do, you can use the ammo that you got to the objection to like tailor it to that person.

51:43Yeah. So it's a little bit of a different way to train every industry, but I prefer the warm lead one all the way because these cold, hard objections, it's like, if you do it right, you'll have so much ammo to where you're actually excited to hear an objection. So you're like, girl, you just told me you were a nine. Like, come on, let's be fucking for real. You know? Yeah. Basically like the front end work of the sale. Everybody's like, when they see me, they're like, oh, well, how do I roll this objection? What do I say when they say this? How do I close somebody? It's like, okay, the end should be the easiest part.

52:14The beginning is the part that everybody overlooks. Everybody just hops on is like, oh, nice to meet you. Let me show you a little bit about what we do. Price. Oh, I need to think about it. It's expensive. I've already done something like this before. And it's like, because you didn't do the front part right.

52:30Hala Taha:Yes. So yeah, exactly. Like if you get them to tell you what their objections are or to like dismantle these objections in the beginning with those doors that you mentioned, they're not going to want to go back on their word. They're not going to want to contradict themselves because people always want to be right. Well, that's what I always say is people believe 0 % of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep. But they believe 100 % of the words that come out of their own mouth. Yeah. So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later because it would feel so unnatural and it would make them, like you said, not right.

53:05Yeah. To go back on their word. Also, I know a lot of the people watching are males. So I have a little analogy that I like to relate to a lot of the guys, but a lot of people underestimate the front end of the sale. But if you think about it, I always like to relate it back to dating. It's like when you take a girl out on a date, you know, you're going to do, you're going to set the date up right. You're going to butter up, open up her chair, pay for the meal, tell her what to wear, all this stuff, like send her a car. That way the clothes at the end of the day is so much easier, right? If you don't do the whole date right, then you're just going to be digging yourself out of a hole when you go to kiss her at the end of the night, you

53:41Hala Taha:know? Yeah. I love that. Good analogy. Okay. I tried something similar and it didn't work out. Are you married? No. Do you want to be married? Yeah. Have you had an ex-boyfriend before? Yes, many. Do we hate him? No, I don't hate anyone. I know that was funny, but my point is, you know, if your goal is still the same, it doesn't matter what else you've tried before. That shouldn't stop you from still reaching that goal. So, same, like, I hate my ex-boyfriends as well, but I still want to get married, have that family and everything. so that doesn't stop me from going on dates. So what should stop you from trying out a different avenue in order to get to XYZ, whatever you're selling?

54:24That's one of my favorite ones, just because as soon as I asked that, they're like, I mean, yes, or I mean, no, like it doesn't matter what they say. And then I like to use analogies to sell a lot. Okay. Just because it makes things come in people's brains. So pretty much no matter what objection, you can use an analogy, like one with prices, like organic groceries, you can do costs with different Starbucks drinks or gas tanks. But I always like to bring it back to something that they know to where they're like, oh my God, yeah, I get it. And so the marriage one is easy because it's like, okay, well, do you still want to get leads for your business?

54:56Do you still want to blah, blah, blah? Yeah, the problem hasn't gone away. Right. And then you can also ask them like, and this is something that I would ask in the beginning of the pitch, is what else have you tried before? Why didn't you like that? What are you looking for? That way when they're like, at the end of the pitch, they're not going to tell me, oh, I've done something else. It's like, we already talked about that girl. You know,

55:18Hala Taha:we're already good on that. Yeah. And I love what you say. You say like an objection is like an infection. If you don't resolve it, it just gets worse and worse down the pipeline. A hundred percent. And like the infection starts in the beginning. So that would start, for example, like if you're on a call with a girl and she has like fat rock, she's obviously married, right? And if you don't ask the proper questions and shut the door of the spouse objection in the beginning, you're going to get it at the end, like nine times out of 10. And so you can either one save an hour of your time asking Stacey about, oh, like, has your husband, have you guys ever talked about this before?

56:00What does he think about this? Does he even know that you're on this call? Do you guys have a budget set aside for this? That if she's like, oh yeah, no, he does. He handles everything, he doesn't even know I'm on this call, I would just be like, okay, no problem. You go grab your husband and we'll schedule a follow-up call with your husband because I want everybody to be in on the same position.

56:17Hala Taha:Yeah. Because you can just waste so much time if you don't resolve the spouse objection in the beginning. Yeah. But you want to be careful not to assume that the guy is bringing in all the money. 100%. You would be surprised how many times the guys would give the spouse objections. It's pretty 50-50. The worst thing that all the guys that I would train a door-to-door is they would always assume that the husbands would do it. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like a lot of the guys need their wife's approval. So you really do never know. So that's why it's important to ask those questions in the beginning.

56:55Hala Taha:Do you feel like today's buyers are different than the past? Like how has today's buyers changed over time? Today's buyers are super turned off by like scripts and salesy sales pitches. And I think today's sales process doesn't even start with the sales call. I think it starts with content of whatever you're selling and those first points of contact. So everything's a sale. It's not just a sales call. It's not just a sales pitch. It's, you know, if you're selling a program for a coach and they're putting content out, that's part of the sale. And so a lot of the times when, you know, we work with offers, I like to look at the offers content.

57:33It's like, okay, are you using the marketing agencies that are just doing like the big neon text and you sound like you're scripted? It's like, okay, there's a lead from that is probably not going to be as good of a lead as somebody that's just raw, genuine, real with their audience. That's super upfront with what they sell and they know exactly what they're getting into before they get onto to a sales call. And so a lot of the training that we do with my girls is like, okay, once you finish my training, we also coach you on like how to find the high ticket offers to sell for. And so the girls, it's like, okay, how do you evaluate how good the online coach is doing with the sales?

58:13It's like, okay, you look at the content, you look at the lead flow, you look at how interactive they are. And so I think the sales starts with that. And then that's why it's like the closing call is closing. Makes our job 10 times easier.

58:26Hala Taha:Yeah. I really want to get into online selling with you and social media, but let's actually talk about close. Like what's your, you know, best guidance for closing a deal? I think that soft closing a deal multiple times throughout a sales pitch is the best way to go before you get to a hard close. So I always like to layer in, I do a couple of different soft closes, a temperature gauge, and then a hard close. And this is for, this is for warmly. It's a lot different than if I were doing like cold calling door to door, but soft closing is essentially any sort of close that makes it a little bit soft, a little bit contingent.

59:00So I would say something like if we were to even set something up, would you want to do this package or this package? Would you want to do the calls on this day or this day? What would be a priority for you if you were to be in the program? What would be your commitment level if you were to join the program? So it's, you can kind of tell where somebody's at before you hard close them rather than just going in for the close. And you tell that based off of their responses. So they can respond one of two ways. Number one is, yeah, I would definitely want to do like the whole thing. Or they could say like, if we were going to do it, then I would want to do this.

59:34And that's the contingent part. And so with that person, you would sit there, build a lot more value before you go in for the close. Because the worst thing you can do, my job is all preventing the objections. the worst thing you can do is not know where the customer stands, go in for the hard clothes, and then they just tell you some BS of like, yeah, for sure, but I would need to think about it. And then you're just digging yourself out of a hole. So it's layering the soft clothes in, kind of getting that temperature gauge of where they're at, and then the clothes once you know that this person's like pretty good to go.

1:00:07Hala Taha:How do you feel about giving the price on, you know, the discovery call? Do you like to wait to give the price or what's your strategy there? Yeah. So I teach my girls. So like, for example, like DM setting or the discovery calls, some setters, no price at all. But it's hard because you also want to make sure that this person's a qualified buyer, that they have some sort of money or else there's no point in getting on a sales call. So the rule of thumb that I always give my girls with their offers is whatever your lowest package is, half of that has to be the minimum because there's payment plans a lot So let's say your lowest package is$3 ,000.

1:00:44I would have the setters qualify them with$1 ,500. Do you have at least$1 ,500 to get on the sales call? Because if they have$1 ,500, then they can sell them the lowest package at a split, right? But you never give the full price because there's zero value built. And also, this is very, very important with setting up follow-up calls with spouses. is I always tell them like, okay, for our sake, just because we built so much value, I don't want your husband to be like, oh, can I join this program for this amount? Obviously, he's going to say no, right? So let's just do this. We'll go over everything with your husband tomorrow at 5 p.m.

1:01:22Do me a favor. Let them come the same way that you came blank state just kind of to learn. And then we can go over the packages. So I don't want them to talk about, you know, even though they probably will, but I don't want them to say, oh, marketing agency, for$5 ,000. They're just like, wait, what? No, there's no value bill.

1:01:40Hala Taha:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So basically the initial calls with call setters, not the expert, but once you actually go over everything in detail, what they're getting, ask them questions, whatever, you can then give them the price at the end. Right, yeah. So the price is going to be in the close at the end. And the close for high ticket is so simple. It's just in the investment in order to get you to X, Y, Z is going to be blank. Shut up. It's just a statement close. It's easy. Or you could do an option close with packages. Depends. Yep. And I love the language that you used. You didn't say cost.

1:02:14Hala Taha:You said the investment, which is way more positive. Investment. And then you add in the goal KPI. So the investment in order to get you to those 10 ,000 leads a month. The investment in order to get the 10 to 15 pounds lost that you were telling me about. You remind them of what they're buying before you give the cost. Okay. Last question on sales. Then we're going to get into social media. Talk to me about reverse selling. Oh my gosh. So I always say sales isn't a chase. It's a dance. And so 90 % of salespeople are just product pushing, product pushing, objection, super aggressive. And when you chase somebody, they're going to run away.

1:02:52So a dance is knowing when to push a little bit, but then when to pull back. So when you ask me, you know, like, listen, she'll be like, I really need to think about it. It's like, okay, no problem. At this point, they would have told me that a couple of times. So it's like, okay, no problem. How long do you need? They never really say a month. They normally say like two days, but then that's when you pull back a little bit because you can't give your energy too much. You need to at some point reverse the energy and reverse sell. Another way I love to reverse sell is what I call the hot potato technique.

1:03:27So most sales reps, they'll go, oh, well, why should I go with you guys? And they'll go, oh, because we have this, we have this, we have this. We're the best here, here, and here. It's like, no, your energy is going like this. You're just selling them. You're chasing them. You're selling yourself. The hot potato sales technique is exactly what it sounds. It's like playing hot potato. You get the potato. It's hot. You throw it right back. Same thing in sales. So I teach my girls to say, okay, well, why should we go with you guys? Well, what's important to you? Oh, well, this, this, and this. Okay, well, why are those things important to you?

1:04:00Oh, oh, because in the past we've had this, this, and this. Now they're selling themselves on why they should be a part of your program or whatever you're selling. And it comes back to what you were saying of people believe 0 % of the words that come out of your mouth, but they'll believe every word that they say. So it's about asking the right questions and making them sell themselves.

1:04:20Hala Taha:Something that I like to do on my sales calls is I try to like disqualify somebody from even being able to work with me. I'm so exclusive that actually I need to qualify you to be my client. Talk to us about why that works. Yeah. So I actually call it the gatekeeper. And so I tell my girls, and this is something that could really only work for warm leads, right? Like I can't, I could never go up to somebody's door and act like I'm interviewing them, the gatekeeper, right? So it's different. But in warm leads, a hundred percent. And I tell them like, you have to have the mindset because in high ticket, this person's probably been following the creator for quite some time, finally wants to book a call, etc.

1:04:59So you need to have the mindset of this person just took an hour out of their day to sit on a sales call. There's a reason for that. I don't know about you, but I have to have a pretty big pain point in order to take an hour out of my very busy day in order to talk about a sales pitch and getting sold a program. Yeah. So having that mindset of this person has a problem. Our program is the best possible solution for this person with this problem. And we only let people in who are going to be good testimonials. And so when I was rolling that one objection, I said, part of my job is to make sure that we're screening the people that we let in the program because we don't want you to not succeed.

1:05:39So if you're not that committed, take that time for sure. And that kind of makes them pull back a little bit the reverse selling of, oh, no, no, I am committed though. Like I would want to do this. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so gatekeeper of, you know, between this person who has a problem and this program that has their solution and you're interviewing them, asking them all the questions to see if they're going to be a great testimonial. And when you tell them at the end, you know, more of a sincere close of, I really do see, see you being one of our next testimonials or when you're on the testimonial side telling them, this will be you.

1:06:17You know, can you see that for yourself? Can you see yourself being on the side in three months when you XYZ, get all the rental properties, kill it in this, whatever. It comes off a lot more genuine when you treat it like that.

1:06:28Hala Taha:Yeah. And it's also good to have different programs for people who are at different levels. Like, listen, you're not ready for, you know, totally all the services that I can do for you with the whole team. And like, you're not ready for that yet because I don't want you to spend money and not get your ROI. but why don't you take my course and get started? And you know what I mean? So it's like having different packages is really important. For sure. Okay. So let's talk about social media. You've done an incredible job building Instagram and TikTok. What is like your thought process behind building a community, building a brand?

1:06:59Hala Taha:Like how are you able to just like kind of come out of nowhere in the last year and just dominate the female sales persona? Okay. I always get asked this question and my answer is very simple. A lot of people try to do social media instead of just actually being the expert in something that people want to watch. Like everybody's always worried about what hashtags, what times should I post? And it's like, okay, people see through that nowadays. Like you said, because social media is sales at the end of the day, people see through that. So I genuinely think the reason why this time last year I had less than 10 ,000 followers and now I'm almost at 600 ,000 on Instagram is because I can pull out my camera and just talk about some random closing tip or throughout my day, it's all I think about.

1:07:49I'm consumed by it. So when I hear a sales pitch of somebody on the street trying to sell me something, I'm like, oh, that was actually like pretty interesting. I'm going to make a video about that. So it's actually being the thing before you like put that on social media. That way when people see it, they're like, oh this this girl actually knows what she's talking about and she loves it yeah you're like

1:08:09Hala Taha:the go-to person for sales everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page they know the energy you're gonna bring the vibe they know you're talking to women primarily but anybody can learn from your page which I'm sure you've got a lot of male followers too so many males yeah they always comment they're like I'm not a girl also I'm not even in sales but help me with my confidence. Thank you. That's funny. And then like the second part about building a brand is super interesting. So I had a video that I posted maybe like nine months ago went mega viral. It was all the girls want to live the rich Porsche Pilates mom lifestyle.

1:08:48They want to go on walks Pilates drive a nice car and just kind of like have that be their day. You don't have to marry and ugly, bold dude, you can give it to yourself. And the way that I give it to myself is sales. And so that video kind of popped and created this brand of like Porsche, Pilates, matcha, sales, hot girl sales. And so it was awesome. It was super fun. And now that's like all of my girls, they all like wear their hair and ponytails, the gold hoops, they post their matcha. So it's, it really is like a huge community and a real brand. And it's fun because that's the life I live every single day.

1:09:26So it's fun posting my little matcha in the morning and the girls are like, love it.

1:09:31Hala Taha:Yeah. You have built this, like everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page. And you're also showing different elements of you. You're talking about sales. Everybody knows you're going to teach them about sales, but then you're into working out, you're into eating healthy. And so you've got, you can be dynamic. I always get this question, like, can I be a dynamic person on social media? And it's like, yeah, people want to know the real you. One of the things people wish I was more dynamic about is my dating life. Yeah. People are always like, oh, can you do like day in the life? Get ready with me is like debriefs about your dates.

1:10:04I'm like, no, I already like guys probably already look at my social media and they're like, oh my gosh, like intimidated. This girl's loud. She's going to try to sell me on a date. So I'm like, I can't talk too much about my dating life on social media because then nobody's going to want to date me, you know?

1:10:20Hala Taha:Well, talk to me. Well, let's take a little tangent here. Two very successful women. How is dating for you? Are men just really intimidated, especially with your age? Okay. Everybody thinks that. Everybody, the comments I get are like, oh, it's probably going to be so hard for her to find a man, blah, blah, blah. I have never had more options. Yeah. And a lot like in the, like the least weird way to say that. But options aren't great because I feel the same way, but it's like, it's almost like I can't make a choice. I agree. And I also don't have the time to go on all these dates. So I always like to say, being a successful woman that makes her own money, it disqualifies all the people that wouldn't make sense anyways.

1:11:04Cause like the broke guy is never going to be like, oh, like that's my wife, you know? So it's like, but I also don't want somebody that doesn't have goals.

1:11:11Hala Taha:Yeah. So it kind of like disqualifies the people that wouldn't work out anyways. And then the options that you do have are like, okay, these are actually like great, great guys. And I want to be with somebody that wants their wife to be a badass and have her own thing and that I can have intellectual conversations with. So yeah, I think it's, it's been going great, but I also just don't have a lot of time. So yeah, I hear you. All right. Well, Shelby is single. If you guys want to take her out on a date. Yes. You have to live in Miami. So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral? So B-roll videos do really well, which is just like the five to second videos with text on it.

1:11:51Those ones do really well with me. I like to say in another life, I was the best copywriter on the planet because I do all my social media myself. I don't hire a single soul for it. I was to like intern copywriters that help me out. But I only have them do bullet points for stories. And then they only touch stories, by the way. Nobody touches my like actual videos, contents, broadcast channel. And it's because I've tried it before because it is a lot running the whole social media thing with how much content I put out. But when it's not you, people can tell. And it's also not fun to post for me.

1:12:31I don't know. And when it's me, like it just does so much better. Yeah. So I'm like, I'd rather put out less stuff and it actually be me. But yeah, I do literally everything myself. The best stuff that does well on Instagram for me, there's like two buckets. One bucket is the B-roll with the funny copy on it. But the other bucket is a really funny sales tip. So I'll start a video by saying something out of pocket. Like you have to be a brat in sales and people are like, wait, what? but then I follow it up with a really good sales tactic. That's like, okay, well, when somebody asks you a question, you ask them a question back.

1:13:08That's bratty, but like, that's how you get the deal done. And people are like, okay, that makes sense. And those videos get the most amount of followers. The B-roll ones are like, no, they're just like for fun. But the sales tip ones are what really grow a page.

1:13:23Hala Taha:Kind of shock them with something that they're like, what is she talking about? Right. And then give them a really smart response. And then they're like, okay, that makes sense. Yeah. I'm so excited because I've been like heads down building my company for four years. Basically like creating other influencers. Right. Monetizing other influencers. And for my brand, I just like kind of on autopilot. I have a team. I've got reels. Right. It's not me. Like you were saying. And this year, I'm just like trying to get everything off my plate. And I'm like going to just go super hard and just teach and just go back to my roots.

1:13:57Hala Taha:Because that's how I started. it is like I grew up on LinkedIn just teaching people. And I can't I can't I can't wait to get back to it. And you've been an inspiration because I'm like, damn, she's so good at her videos. Like I was like, I need to just do that. Oh, no, you do make that your 2025. That is my goal. You are such a badass. I'm like, you just flip the camera up and start talking. I guarantee that's awesome. Yeah, I can't wait. Couple last questions here. I know you've got a course. I'm sure there's so many people tuning in. I know that you do webinars for your course. You probably got a bunch of different sales funnels.

1:14:29Hala Taha:So just walk us through how you actually sell online. What's a good salesy type post? Do you use many chat webinars? Like what are you doing to sell? What are your main ways to sell online? So it's funny because I guess this is like a sales tactic, but it's actually true is we, I don't let people just join. Like you can't book a call from my content, go to the link in bio, get on a call with the team and get onboarded. So I only open my program, which is called She Sells, at the end of masterclasses, at the end of webinars. And I only open it for like 20 minutes. And it's a time where like I have girls that DM me all the time.

1:15:05Hey, can you send me the link? I want to join She Sells. And we're like, nope, got to come to the masterclass. Two reasons. Number one, women are going to be successful when they know exactly what's in it, when they're super hot, when they're all going together. And so I make them sit on a masterclass for an hour, learn the ins and outs of it for free. And then it's like, okay, now that you know it, join. And you only have 20 minutes to join. So you got to join now. So you're like

1:15:28Hala Taha:condensing their decision time. They can't talk themselves out of it. If you only give them 20 minutes, they only have whatever's fresh in their head. They can't go talk. They can't have their spouse talk them out of it. They got to decide right then. And they have to pay within that 20 minutes. That's genius. Yes. And the reason, like the reason is too, it is a sales tactic, but it also is more of a fulfillment reason too, because they all get in at the same time. The way that I do it is not cohort style, but kind of is. And women love to do things with their girls. Like we don't even go to the bathroom alone.

1:16:01So it's like knowing that you're alone on a call, but you're also joining with all of the girls at the same time from across the world is that's how I built my community. Like my community on social media is cool, whatever my community in my program is insane. I will go to war with any other community in the world because my girls are so like they bleed she sells.

1:16:27Hala Taha:And it's awesome. That makes so much sense. It's like people want a shared identity. They want to talk the same language. They want to feel like they're part of a group. And so having them make that decision on the call together, it's like they all like kind of got like not hazed in a sorority together at the same time, but kind of like that bond. Yeah, I love that. When I tell them too, like, I mean, when you're purchasing anything and especially like getting into sales, that's something that's scary. And so that's my time to kind of talk to them. And a lot of it is like mental of like, okay, when a decision is scary, that's how you know it's right because that's how you know you're growing.

1:17:02And so it's scary for everybody on the call right now. But like, if it's calling you, like I do invite you to join. And it's also just more fun for me because we get to onboard all the girls at the same time. There's not people just trickling in. We can kind of know like, okay, this group is going at this pace and this pace and this pace. So it is nice.

1:17:21Hala Taha:That's really cool. And are you collecting their emails and then retargeting them if they don't sign up to join the next webinar? And like how cohesive is your strategy in that way? Yeah. So I have a whole team. So I have a team of 22 and they handle a lot of like the backend emails, a lot of the sequences and the stuff that, you know, I am not an expert on. but a lot of it is retargeting. And what we found is that somebody doesn't just join a class and then join at the end. A lot of people join a couple classes. And it's funny because it's the same class. I know. And it's, you would never think, you would never think that, but the way I run my webinars is super energetic.

1:18:01I have caffeine. I have mustaches. I do role plays. I handle objections live. Like it's fun. And so I think people join for the energy, but when they come like a couple times they're like, okay, okay, I finally feel like I'm going to do it now. Okay, let's do it. So that's interesting.

1:18:16Hala Taha:Some people need to go two, three times and then they'll buy on the webinar. And webinars are so smart people. I've got lots of content on webinars, guys. I interviewed Jason Fladline, Russell Brunson just on webinars. So look those up if you're interested because webinars to me are like the hottest way to sell something low to high ticket. It doesn't even matter. It's just like the best way to sell in my opinion. I agree. And I would people are like, Oh, why don't you have sales? You have so many sales girls. Why don't you have them take calls for you? Um, I'm the best sales girl to sell my product.

1:18:47And I just, I love, I genuinely feel like I was born for webinars. I love it. I was born for it. Like I'm sitting here selling one, selling one to many. So fun because the way I like to sell during a webinar is I'll take every sort of customer segment, every sort of target market of our girls and overcome their objections. So like you have the moms, but then you have the girls that are working part-time, you have the students. And so you're like, well, if you're a mom, I'm talking to you handle that. If you're a student, I'm talking to you handle that. If you're international, I'm talking to you handle that.

1:19:20So you kind of get, you know what I think it is that I realized, well, I think we're just,

1:19:23Hala Taha:we love sales so much. And like webinar is like the ultimate sales challenge, you know, And so it's just like so fun. And it's really fun. I love to do it. I look forward to them. Same. They're my favorite part of the week. I love that. Okay. So last question. You are living in Miami and you just moved there and you talked about the Miami effect. So what is the Miami effect? Oh, yes. So the Miami effect is a pretty known thing, but it's basically when you move to Miami, you get hotter and richer. No argument at all. you just get hotter and richer. And the reason is because everybody that lives in Miami, and when I say Miami, I'm really talking about Brickell, which is where I live.

1:20:06People are like, no, they're not. And I'm like, where are you from? They're like, little Havana. I'm like, okay, well, that's not where I live. So we're talking about like Brickell, the city. So where I live in Brickell, I mean, the rent is insane. You buy a coffee, it's$15. So like you have to make money in order to live there. So everybody in the elevators, everybody at the coffee shops on your walks makes money and is cool. And in order to make money, you have to have good skill sets. You have to have some sort of business. You have to be a cool person. So it's like you move to Miami, you start meeting all these cool people.

1:20:40Side note, Miami is the land of the fakers though. So you kind of have to like, there are a lot of people that are like real awesome, but that was one of the things where I first moved here. I thought everybody was like so real. they're really not. But for the most part, like people are making a lot of money. People are walking outdoors because the weather is awesome. Everybody here is so attractive. So you need to become attractive too. So it's like you just rise to the level of the standard of Miami, which is your Miami effect. Yeah.

1:21:09Hala Taha:Environment is so important. People don't realize it. You know, if something's not working out for you, it could just be that you just need to move, meet new people, get inspired. Well, in Atomic Habits, that's the biggest thing is you can change your habits like this if you change your surroundings. That's why when somebody goes to rehab, they don't send them right back to the same apartment, same house, because you start associating your physical surroundings with your every single daily habits. So the best way to break your habits and literally change your life is to get into a different house, a different apartment, or even better, a bigger city.

1:21:40And I always like to explain it as like a fishbowl, like you're a little fish and a normal fishbowl. But then when you get a big fishbowl, you grow to fit the size of the bigger fishbowl. And that's why like a lot of people that have experienced something like this, if you can relate, you go back to your hometown and you feel like a big fish and you're like, oh my gosh. I don't fit here anymore.

1:22:04Hala Taha:I don't fit. So, and that's the best thing to feel. So, yeah, I love that. So Shelby, this has been such a great conversation. Honestly, I feel like you spit so much game on sales. I think everybody learns so much. I end my show with two questions. I ask all of my guests. You can answer from the heart. What is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? Spirituality. 100%. Every single day, spirituality. When you have a why behind what you do, you'll become more profitable in no matter what you do. And that was the biggest game changer for me. As soon as I moved to Miami, weirdly enough, I got really into my faith as soon as I moved here.

1:22:44And what happened a year ago, my whole life completely. And it's not just because, you know, if you want to do that, then, you know, get in touch with God. But I do genuinely think you just take more risks. You know who you are when you truly believe in something that's bigger than yourself. So no matter what that is, like find out what kind of spirituality you like to go into it and make sure that that's the first thing you do in the morning and last thing you do at night. And don't before that, don't go on your phone, scroll on TikTok after you pray at night. That's like my biggest thing because your brain is so in like manifestation mode, dreaming all this, you're praying, and then you go to bed and that's your subconscious mind.

1:23:22Hala Taha:So on a granular thing, spirituality will for sure. I love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life? Ooh, like in business or just like? Just in life. Energy. 100%. I like to explain to people, your energy will make your life better. No matter if you're a server, an accountant, if you're in sales, a business owner, people don't want to be around you if you're just sad and mopey all the time. So the best thing that I do in order to be profitable in no matter what I do, whether that's relationships, business, even friendships, calling my mom, like people have these little interactions with you and that makes up their story with you and their story with you determines what that relationship is going to be like and how much you love your life because your life is all of your relationships.

1:24:13So carrying that positive energy and genuine energy too with everything you do in life.

1:24:18Hala Taha:Totally. You are so positive and it kept the whole conversation so engaging. I'd ask you a question and you'd be like, oh my God, I can't wait to answer this question. I know. This is so fun. You have such good questions too. I seriously enjoyed this. Yeah. Thank you so much, Shelby. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do. Yeah. So my Instagram is Shelby dot sap. My tick tock is diary of a door to door saleswoman, which I will be changing. So don't go there. But go to my Instagram and then you can see my website link in my bio. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

1:24:48Of course.