YAPClassic: Gabor George Burt, How to Dominate the Market for Good With the Slingshot Method | Entrepreneurship

27:15And I also love the concept that life is a journey and not a destination. Right. So that we're always, always in motion. We're always moving. And that's that's the fun part. And that's and that's true in business, too. Right. So so perfection is not something that's obtainable. And it's a dangerous fallacy for any company to think that that it is, because it's much more exciting to understand the fact that there is no perfectly satisfied customer. And that gives us the license to continuously explore and develop that relationship and give them new things and new experiences. Now, customization, on the other hand, is really a fascinating concept because it really creates that deep relationship where, in essence, companies can outsource part of their work, right?

28:06To say, you know, you design it for yourself. And this has been really well used by companies like Nike and Lego, where they allow their customers to basically create their own products. It's a wonderful concept. And it was also something that was key with IKEA, which started the whole do-it-yourself furniture industry, right? What a brilliant concept in the 1950s. So a long time ago, they said, well, what is one of the big costs in our industry? Well, it's assembling furniture and then having to store and ship them in much larger containers. And I said, well, what if we eliminated that? And that's, again, value innovation, right?

28:46We're eliminating something, in this case, giving people furniture that's completely preassembled. But we packaged it differently. We say to our shoppers and consumers that we're empowering you to put it together yourself. Do it yourself. You're building your own house or putting together your perfect apartment. And it's the same idea of customization now becomes part of the deeper relationship as well as a way to value innovate. And I think it also kind of relates to the customer feedback because as you implement that feedback, you're personalizing that product for your consumers. No doubt. And that's right.

29:29So the perception from a customer's viewpoint is exactly that. That, wow, this company is not looking at me as one in millions, but I am special, right? I am actually in a relationship with this company. I can design whatever I want and do exactly as I want on this product or service. So it's very powerful. You're right. It's a really good lever for that. Okay, so let's move on to prong number two. So like we discussed, we need to keep consumers infatuated. And in order to do that, you need to remain continuously relevant to them. So you call this lifestyle enrichment. And it's all about staying relevant.

30:11So how can business owners scan the horizon and shift course to stay relevant? What are the things they can do? Well, part of the idea of relevancy is, and that's a good segue, is what we already started talking about, is you have to always monitor your customers. Better yet, continuously put yourself in their position. So be a customer of your own business. And that's one of the first questions that I ask with organizations that I work with. And I'm amazed how often leadership teams are so disconnected from their businesses that they're not customers of what they sell, right? How could you then possibly understand how to lead this organization?

30:53So that is one of the ways that, and it's the best ways, the most fundamental ways that you can stay relevant. The other is to understand and look ahead to where the market and the world and technology, where everything is heading, right? So one of the things I ask, I have a six-question test. And I always challenge my audiences to say that I bet you, you won't get more than two out of the six questions correct, okay? And from the perspective of really forward thinking, future shaping, strategic thinking. And invariably, I win. And they're very basic questions. And one of them is, who are your most important competitors?

31:38Right? And most people will think about it and think and answer with their direct competitors. And what I say the correct answer is, is whatever is most in the hearts and the minds of your target audience. Right? What are they thinking about? What are they obsessed with? Because that's where you want to play. So right now, in the wake of COVID, a lot of people, what they're obsessed with is work-life balance, safety, security, lifelong learning, you know, a new world order, all these kind of things. And so it's a perfect time to ask that question. And in order to stay relevant, you want to provide that answer.

32:16You want to provide the solution to whatever they're most obsessed about. Because if you can do that, and you come to mind when they're thinking, well, you know, lifelong learning, work-life balance, safety and community harmony, all these things, and you come to their mind, that's a relationship. And then you're not only just relevant, but again, beyond that, you become indispensable to them, right? They can't live without you. And that's really where you wanna be, is that indispensability. So I'd love to understand what kids and their imagination can teach us about lifestyle enrichment? I had several occasions where I was with leadership teams of very successful companies, and I give them a creativity exercise.

33:05One that I do is called the Imagination Kits Challenge, and it's about a random collection of everyday objects. And the challenge is to create the most fun game that you can out of just these objects. And invariably, and these could be the most serious, older, you know, very successful executives, invariably, within seconds, everybody reverts to childhood playing and sense of discovery. It's a beautiful thing. But on several occasions, I invited children to be the judges, right? And so they become the ones that grade and rank the solutions that these very highly successful adults have come up with.

33:46So it's a complete role reversal. And what kids do is they have this wonderful disarming way of just cutting to the chase and asking the most disarming questions that you cannot hide behind, you know, industry expertise or jargon. I don't understand why this is a good product. I don't understand why this would be fun, right? Or how would this really work? Any of these questions. And it's that sort of insight that if we can reconnect with that, and that's why I always encourage people who have children to interact with their children and learn from them, play with them, and have them ask questions about what you're doing as an adult.

34:29then you have this power of simplification and understanding things that we as adults often overcomplicate. And that's the power of that childhood sense of creativity and curiosity. I think this is a great segue to talk about the third prong, which is defying conventional wisdom. So what do you think are the most important things we need to know about that one? Well, with that is really this notion that we have this ability to always ask the what-if questions. And by not doing that, but just simply accepting things as they are, we're doing ourselves a disservice because we're not utilizing this great resource and quality and ability that we have.

35:16And we are not going to be able to fully take advantage of situations that life presents us, right? Because that ability is ours for the taking. So the idea of defying conventional wisdom is really that reminder that why not take advantage of it? And there's a wonderful quote, one of my all-time favorites by Muhammad Ali, who had this fascination with the word impossible. And he said that impossible is just a big word thrown around by little people who'd rather live in a world that they have been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion.

36:09It's a dare. Right? And that's exactly the point, is that let's all take that dare. We have that choice. We either accept everything as they are and just say, I don't want to change anything or to really harness the power we all have to make a difference, to be part of the future shapers. Right. And that's the whole idea. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.

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39:26Young and profiter's. I know there's so many people tuning in right now that end their workday wondering why certain tasks take forever, why they're procrastinating certain things, why they don't feel confident in their work, why they feel drained and frustrated and unfulfilled. But here's the thing you need to know. It's not a character flaw that you're feeling this way. It's actually your natural wiring. And here's the thing. When it comes to burnout, it's really about the type of work that you're doing. Some work gives you energy and some work simply drains you. So it's key to understand your six types of working genius.

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41:16Something really fun that I found in your book was a test that you call the opossum test. Can you talk to us about how an opossum represents the ideal business and how businesses can become more like possums or opossums. Yeah, sure. And that is also one of the other six questions. I just mentioned my six-question test, which is what animal would you pick to be the perfect symbol of your business, right? So what is an animal that you think in your mind gives an image of the perfect qualities a business should possess? And a lot of people gravitate towards strong animals, like a lion or an eagle, right?

42:00Why? Because immediately your knee-jerk response is that business is war and therefore you want to be at the top of the food chain. It's the survival of the fittest. And to me, that's the fallacy. That's the trap because business is not war. Business is about adaptability. It's about future shaping, developing relationships that are indispensable. And so to me, one of my favorite animals as a response to that is the opossum. Why? Because for most animals in the animal kingdom, when they're faced with danger, they have two types of responses, fight or flight, right? So either they're capable to defend themselves or they're fast enough to run away.

42:40But the opossum doesn't accept that wisdom. So it defines conventional wisdom by having a very unconventional strategy, which is taking a nap, right? Pretending that it is not alive. And when the danger passes because the predator has no interest in eating a seemingly dead carcass, the opossum gets up and goes along its way. So the point is that it's defying conventional wisdom. I argue that in contrast to other animals who spend most of their time getting ready and being prepared to fight or flight, it doesn't have to invest anything along those lines. It can live a very happy, content life. But then I also argue that this defense is only as good as other animals don't start to mimic it.

43:30Because if every prey starts to mysteriously drop dead in front of a predator, pretty soon they would start getting pretty suspicious, right? So you need to continuously innovate. And that's the point I make to companies that, are you an opossum? So do you have an unconventional strategy that allows you to actually do more with less? And are you continuously innovating so that you're not banking on a past innovation for your future success? That's the idea. I love that little story. So let's talk about the accordion chart. This is prong number four. It lets you zoom in and out of your offerings utility definition.

44:09So I thought this was super interesting because you basically are saying you need to come with the broadest definition possible for utility for your offering. So why is that super important to have a broad definition as opposed to a narrow or niche definition of your utility of your product? Yeah, and let me ask you, Hala, how do you define your business? So what business are you? And I'm sitting next to you. I have many businesses. Okay, all right, that's interesting. So then answer it this way, keep that in mind. Let's say that I'm sitting next to you at a dinner party, right, and I'm really interested to talk with you.

44:43I don't know you at all, So I turn to you and I say, so what do you do? What business are you in? And so what would you answer me? What would be your immediate answer to that? I'd say, hi, I'm Hala. I'm the host of a number one podcast called Young and Profiting. I also have a social media and podcast agency, and I just launched a podcast network. Wow, that's a beautiful answer. Now, if I asked you to limit that to four words, what would those four words be? I am the podcast princess. That is brilliant. I love that. And now here's why. And here's the connection. So the accordion chart, and that's why I named it that, because, yeah, it's like an accordion.

45:21You can stretch the definition of your business, but it's not a one-way stretch. You can also contrast it, right? So that, yeah, you want to define your business from most narrow to the most broad space possible, but then decide where is the ultimate between the two extremes that you need to play. I already mentioned Starbucks, that it's not in the coffee business. It's in the business of human connectivity. Nintendo, we talked about, it's a gaming company. They define their business as we make people smile. Four words, right? IKEA, furniture company, defines its business as creating better everyday life.

45:59Four words. I'll give you a B2B example. Sabic, which is a very large Middle Eastern chemical company, they define their business as chemistry that matters. Just three words, right? And so here's the reason why this is absolutely critical. If you define your business very narrowly, and most companies do, that I am in the business of providing a service or a product, then your entire focus and strategy and all your future possibilities are limited to that space. And that's usually a red ocean. When you open that up and you ask the question, ultimately, what value do I bring to my target audience, right?

46:44To make myself relevant and indispensable? Who doesn't want to smile, right? Who doesn't want human connectivity, right? Who doesn't want a princess talking to them through a podcast, Right. That's where you get really close and into this ongoing relationship with your target audience. It's an incredibly powerful switch. And I can tell you, it's the most difficult of all the Slingshot framework components. It's the most mind opening and challenging of everything that I do with, you know, with with my partner companies, because people are just not used to thinking this way. But when they do, it opens up all kinds of incredible possibilities.

47:28Yeah, I'm going to do an offsite with my executive students. And I think we're going to use this framework and go through this accordion chart and really try to think of our Blue Ocean strategy as a company. So I'm super excited for that. Yeah, absolutely. And let me tell you what my perfect answer is, right? And it has to do with it's based on a quote by a former army psychologist called Dave Grossman, who said that the human equation is to multiply joy and divide pain. Joy shared is joy multiplied. Pain shared is pain divided, right? It's a beautiful statement. But based on that, what I say is that, and I challenge every company, every organization, and take this to your offsite, to say that ultimately you should think of yourself as being in the business of multiplying joy and dividing pain for your target audience.

48:25Four words, multiply joy, divide pain, because that's what people ultimately want in life. And if you can make them think that that's what you do for them, that's a relationship for life. And if you can't, if you can't justify that you're multiplying their joy, minimizing their pain, and you're sharing in that journey, like for your podcast, it's a perfect way to actually deliver on this, then you're going to have difficulty staying relevant and even more to be indispensable. So there's my perfect answer. That's beautiful. I love that. So what kind of questions are we gonna ask ourselves as we go through this accordion chart process?

49:04Like what are the questions and things that you ask people to do in that book? What can they expect? Yeah, and so let me also say that because I think this is a very fair question for anybody to ask is, I talk a big game. Am I also a player, right? Do I practice what I preach? And to me, that has always been super important. So everything that I do is, as you said, it started from my childhood. So I not only firmly believe everything, but I practice it. So with my book, Slingshot, how did I reimagine a business book or a leadership book? Well, first of all, it's all illustrated by children. Secondly, it has original music so that every single chapter has its own, I think, really wonderful music done by a very talented European electro band, right?

49:52So you can immerse yourself in the experience. You can listen as you read. And thirdly, I purposely made the book only privately available. So I was not obsessed with book sales or being on the top list, but rather to use my book as a exclusive resource for the audiences that I work with. And I'll make the book available to your audiences. Happy to do that. But so the questions that I'm asking and people will ask themselves are kind of based on what we already kind of revealed. Like, in what way can you prove that you were once a child? What evidence do you have that you were once a child? That's one question that I pose.

50:34In what way do you stretch the definition of your business well beyond the industry that you actually play in? How do you defy conventional wisdom or what is your favorite example of defying conventional wisdom from business or from your private life? Or are you a customer of your own business, right? All these things are and the whole book is written in a way that it's very playful and very interactive, as are all my sessions. So it's really all about this sort of continuous joint journey and self-exploration as you go through the whole content. I love that. Okay, so just to make sure everybody is understanding this accordion chart process, which I think is super, super impactful and helpful for all of our listeners.

51:23Let's take a real life example. Let's take a pizza shop. Walk us through how you would take them through this accordion chart process. What are the questions that they would ask themselves or the things they would need to consider? Yeah, that's great. And by the way, the accordion chart is the only actual framework tool that has its own chapter in my book, right? So it's, as I said, it's the most mind-expanding, and it's the one that, therefore, that I thought was important to actually talk about and walk through. But the basic idea, let's take a pizza shop, is to first ask the question, what is the most narrow definition of your business?

52:01And you may say, well, we are a local or regionally branded pizza restaurant chain. OK, who are the players in that space? How big is your market share? How fast is it growing? Right. And most companies would know that right away because that's their focus, the narrow space that they play. Then comes the disarming question, what is one larger definition of your space? And that may be, well, not just locally branded fast food pizza, but all branded fast food pizza, right? So that's not just regional, but national. So now you're Pizza Hut, Hungry Howie, everybody else comes in. What is your market share in that space?

52:44And who are the key competitors? And immediately, you might have been the major player in the locally branded space, but now you're just a minor player in a larger space. And then we keep going. What is one larger definition? And you might say, well, just branded fast food. So it's no longer just about pizza. Now you can have chicken, healthy choices, burger, everything else. Then the question is, what is beyond that? And now you say, well, anything that you eat out of the house. OK, so every with every new level, we get further and further away from your core business. So your comfort level goes down in terms of your knowledge, but your but your strategic insight increase exponentially.

53:30And we keep pushing this one level up to get at least to six levels. And ultimately, that sixth level could be not just informal eating out, but entertainment destination. Right. Because food is ultimately or a pizza place you can argue is not just about food, but having fun. And now you see that entire map from most narrow to most broad and every type of company that you possibly could be competing against or could borrow some of their best attributes to put into your business. So it becomes this incredibly powerful one-page visual exploration of strategic possibilities across this large space that you or most people have never even kind of considered.

54:19And that is what you call the blue ocean market, correct? Right. The further you go to the broader extreme, the bluer it is or bigger the blue. So I call the start, the narrow part, that's where you might find blue lakes, right? Just optimizing what you're doing. As you start expanding, you're getting into broader space. The next up is blue sea, right? Because now you're expanding what you're doing. And then the further you get to the other end, that's when you get into the blue ocean. That's right. Amazing. Okay, so this brings us to the fifth and last prong of your framework, the Slingshot framework, which is Blue Ocean Strategy.

55:01So you already told us about the three levels of blue waters. Something I want you to expand upon is the concept of red ocean. So that's the antithesis of blue ocean. Yeah, so red ocean is, exactly as you said, so red ocean is that space which you don't want to be in, right? Which is about price-based commodity-like competition, where everybody accepts the same boundaries, the same definitions of customers or market space of products, and you're just trying to out-compete one another. A wonderful example is that there is a town in England where there was a one-pound store, right? Like in the U.S., we have the dollar stores, So everything in that store was one English pound.

55:48And it was in the center of this town. One day across the street, a new store opened up. And the name of that store was 99p, 99 pence. So same as a 99 cent store in the US. So one cent, one penny less. within three months, the one pound store went out of business, right? Because everybody went across the street and there was no other factor of competition, pure price. And that's the definition of a red ocean where there is really no differentiation and it's a very dangerous space to be in for the reason that this little story or example just demonstrated. This was such an amazing conversation.

56:34I always end my interviews with the same two questions, and then we do some fun stuff at the end of the year with them. So the first one is, what is one actionable thing my young and profiter's can do today to be more profitable tomorrow? The thing that I would say is that to realize that this is a really singular moment in time, right? Where the entire world, as we knew it two years ago, no longer exists. So all of us have that choice to take and seize the power that we have to be one of the future shapers or to wait for others to do it for us. And as Paul Romer, who's a Nobel Prize winning economist said, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste.

57:15So what I would encourage all your fans and listeners is to seize the moment and don't waste this crisis. Put yourself in position to be one of the future shapers. I love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life? And so this can be profiting financially, professionally, personally. Yeah. And I mean, to me, the answer is easy, right? Continuously reimagining boundaries. Because I think, you know, that's at core my mantra. And I think that does empower and enable us to do all those things, to make the most impact, to live the most meaningful and enriched life, as well as to be financially successful.

57:57So reimagining boundaries. I love that. What a great conversation. I think this is going to be super helpful to everybody who tuned in. Where can everyone learn more about you and everything that you do? Yeah, that's a great question. So I will, as I said, make my book available. So I will provide a link to its download and preferential ways to do that. But my website is the best way to reach me. I do have a rather unpurposely low profile on social media, but my website and on LinkedIn, you can find me. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. I love this conversation and I hope we get to collaborate again soon.

58:37How about me too? This was wonderful. I love your questions, your energy and everything that you do. So this was great.