YAPClassic: Guy Kawasaki, How to Craft a Pitch That Lands Deals | Sales

23:24You have to go start the Apple. You have to go fail a few times. And that's just the way it works. If it was easy to be an entrepreneur, believe me, more people would be one. Yeah, I totally agree. So let's talk about quitting. So another life lesson that you often talk about is quitting. You quit law school, I think, just a couple weeks in. And I agree, the times that I've quit something in my life were some of the best decisions in my life because it opened up the opportunity to do something different. And sometimes you've got to let go of good to get something great. And it actually reminded me of something.

23:57I interviewed this guy, Colin O 'Brady yesterday. He's this endurance athlete. He's crossed over Antarctica unassisted. He's rode through Drake's Passage, which has claimed the lives of like 20 ,000 sailors. And he told me something that really imprinted on me. And it was that life is a scale of one to 10. So 10s are like the biggest milestones in your life, crushing it with some sort of accomplishment, having a baby. Ones is like going bankrupt, getting divorced, all those bad things. And people tend to stay at five. You know what I mean? They're comfortable. Every day is just five, five, five, because they're worried about hitting a one or a two.

24:37And they never get a nine or a 10 because they're just staying at five. And so I feel like that is very relevant to taking a chance to doing something like quitting because people are just so afraid of failing. So I'd love to hear your perspective on quitting and why it's not failing and just your thoughts on that. So several thoughts, some of which may conflict. First of all, quitting takes courage. I don't know about you, but for me, it took a lot of courage to quit because I was in such this Asian-American path of going to this prestigious school, then going to law school. And it was all planned out being doctor, lawyer, or dentist.

25:14Right. So getting off that track and basically wasting the efforts of 2000 years of my family took some courage. Now, I interviewed Angela Duckworth and she had a very interesting take on quitting, which is she says you can quit, but you should quit when it's a good day. So let's say we'll take an example. Let's say that you were taking the violin and you're not allowed to quit because you are not progressing on violin. You can quit if you're doing well with violin and you just decide that you don't like it. That's okay. But quitting before you even get to that point is not okay. It's a very interesting perspective on quitting.

25:58It's easy for her to say and me to say, but not necessarily to do. But anyway, so that's an interesting thing about quitting. You just, you have to quit in the right way for the right reason at the right time. That is interesting. I also think that, well, let's see, I quit that law school. I have no regret about that. I think the concept of a slippery slope is vastly overrated. So you can make the case, oh, God, you quit law school. So now you're a quitter. You're not going to be successful for the rest of your life. You're just going to be a bum because you quit law school. Well, that didn't exactly work out that way.

26:33And I think if you look at many things, the referral to the slippery slope is vastly, vastly overblown. That if you require background checks to buy an AR-15, next thing you know, you're going to be taking away my guns. That's a slippery slope fear, right? But it ain't true. I mean, so you need to beware of being too afraid of the slippery slope. Now, if you quit three or four things in a row, you probably should be worried about the, you know, you are going down that slope. But quitting one thing, I don't think so. I think in your case, you quit, but it's not like you decided you weren't going to work or like keep on hustling and trying to make it.

27:15You found something that you enjoyed more. So I totally agree there. I would say my observation is most people stay too long rather than quit too early. But I got to give you a huge caveat with that. But I also have come to believe that the concept that the grass is always greener is not true. And that sometimes you should fertilize and water the grass you're standing on, not try to find greener grass. Are you alluding to you leaving Apple by any chance? Exactly. Talk to us about that. Well, I left Apple twice, actually. Once because I wanted to start a company. Actually, both times because I wanted to start a company.

27:53But let's be honest, when you leave a company to start another company, you could talk about all the romance of entrepreneurship and you want it to dent the universe and blah, blah, blah, blah. But it fundamentally, at some level, it means that you are not happy or you don't believe in where you are. I mean, there's got to be some piece of your decision that is tied to that. It cannot purely be all this amazing upside. And so, listen, if you had told me when I quit in 87 and 97 that Apple would become a$2 trillion company, I would have told you you are on hard drugs, like hard illegal drugs. There is no way.

28:39The first time I quit Apple, it's not clear that Apple would have survived. So who knows? Who knows? So sometimes you should just stick with it. Now, this might not play well with your generation, who I just said is going to have 12 to 15 jobs over their career. But at least my experience, you know, I know people who had a great one or two years at Salesforce and left because at that point, Salesforce was already large, publicly traded. They weren't handing out big options anymore. It was hard to see how they're going to make millions and millions of dollars and rise into this large organization.

29:14Well, it's too early to really assess that decision because I left Apple in 97 and it didn't become a trillion dollar company to, I don't know, 2017 or whatever it was, right? So it took 20 years. Now, you might say, well, who wants to work for the same company for 20 years? But that's dependent on what you're doing and how you're growing, not necessarily just going to the same parking space for 20 years. So this interview is filled with inherent conflicts that I just want people to realize who's listening that, yes, I am conflicting myself. I know I'm conflicting myself, but you have to understand that that is how life goes.

29:57Yeah, it's not black and white. It's not black and white. And I am just one data point. With entrepreneurs in particular, I'll give you a classic entrepreneurial thing that one theory says you take your shot and then you pivot quickly. Another says, no matter what the negativity and naysaying is about your product, if you believe you stick through it, you stick with it and you pop out the other side. Those are two completely different things, right? Pivot or grid it out. Both have worked. So it kind of depends on, well, what's the last podcast I listened to? Exactly. Who was the last person I talked to about this?

30:37Exactly. I love it. But you know what? There's many paths to success. Yes. Like you said, people succeed one way or another. And you succeeded even though you've made decisions that maybe you kind of regret. But at the end of the day, that maybe that wasn't your path. Let's talk about some of these decisions because you quit Apple twice. Then Steve Jobs, I think, asked you back a third time. You said no. You almost got to be the CEO of Yahoo. Well, that's an overstatement. I was asked to interview. Let's take the worst case. Let's say I got asked to interview and I was offered the job. So I could have been.

31:10Yes. You could have been this CEO of Yahoo. And I guess that was before Yahoo was Yahoo, right? Well, yeah. So that, you know, that right there, that's two billion. Those are billion dollar decisions. Yes. Have you learned anything about decision making where do you feel like you've gotten better at it or do you just feel like, again, it's this luck idea of luck? Well, who among us doesn't think they're getting better at decision making, but let's just say we're not all right. So I don't know. Listen, I turned down this opportunity with Yahoo. I quit Apple twice. I turned Steve Jobs down for another offer.

31:46So there's four right there, right? So that would be roughly, I'd say two and a half billion dollars total. And you know, two and a half billion here, or two and a half billion there, it adds up to real money after a while. So on the other hand, a lot of it is positioning and branding often in your own mind. So in my mind, the way I explain myself is, okay, so I worked at Apple and Canva. Ah, who's going to say you're a failure? I mean, Apple and Canva, I mean, that's two very good acts, right? I mean, I think you are far from a failure. You are very successful. And Canva is like becoming this huge company.

32:29I mean, you really found a unicorn. You do know how to pick them. Well, OK, let's discuss that. OK. OK, because it's very important that I think entrepreneurs truly understand what goes on. So I started with Apple because of nepotism, right? OK. Then I left Apple. I started a company. I went back. I started another company. Those two companies you would not have heard of because they were moderate, if successful at all. As a venture capitalist, I probably put down, I don't know, 15 bets or something. So if you just looked at the numbers, if you just were a numerical geek, you'd say, okay, guys, so you have Apple and Canva and you have 15 failures.

33:13So guy is two for 17. So that's one way of looking at it. the way I look at it is I may be two for 17, but look at the two. Look at the two. And, and you're, everybody knows that you are, you're hosting a popular pot. You're being way too modest. You've written 15 bucks. Come on. No, no, no. Well, you know, but listen, I'm, I'm not a trillionaire. I'm not a billionaire. I'm, you know, I just like, I'm a surfer. I just like to, like to surf and podcast. That's what I do. I surf and podcast. That's my, I have decided that, you know, my podcast, I'm on a mission to make people remarkable with my podcast.

33:49And it's not because of my wisdom. It's the wisdom of people I interview, such as if you're an entrepreneur, I've interviewed Steve Wozniak. I've interviewed the CEO of Poo-Pourri, which is a great story. Don't laugh at that story. Susie Batiste, Frey Farm, the most pumpkins, the hint water. So I have a lot of different kinds of entrepreneurs in my podcast. And I think my podcast is actually, Over the course of my lifetime, I've been an evangelist. I've been an investor. I've been an advisor, you know, whatever, et cetera, et cetera. The best work I've ever done is my podcast without question.

34:27It's also the least appreciated. I might be able to help you there. Yeah. I have to say my client, Marshall Goldsmith, went on your podcast and we were planning to put out a podcast and you were so good at the podcast that he literally came to me in a meeting and he was like, Hala, I don't think I want to do this podcast anymore. And I was like, why? Marshall, you were so excited about it. And he's like, I went on this guy's podcast, Guy Kawasaki, and he was so good and so prepared. And this is just way too much work. I could not be doing this. And I was like, all right, we'll switch gears, whatever you want, Marshall.

35:05This is a great story. So of course, I've been on the other side of this discussion, right? So one day I get an email from Marshall Goldsmith. And I hope people out there understand who Marshall Goldsmith is. He's like the living Peter Drucker, of course. They may not know who Peter Drucker is, but so Marshall Goldsmith is arguably the best executive coach in the world, maybe ever. And so he sends me this email. I says, guy, you've changed my life. And I said, is this spam? So he says, give me a call to schedule a time. So I call him and it's really him. And he says, you know, guy, he tells me this story that he was on my podcast and he listened to it.

35:43It's so well done. And I was so well prepared. He just doesn't want to do it anymore. He told me, God, you, you changed my life. You made my life better. Cause I was going to try this and it's too much work and it's too hard. I don't want to do it anymore. And so that is like one of the greatest forms of praise I've ever had. How funny is it? That is all coming full circle. And then I'm the one behind it. That's so funny. That's true. I lost you a client. I'm sorry. No, we're doing all his social. It's all good. Okay. Okay. I have a question for you. Sure. Because I've been on the other side of this conversation in 175 times.

36:17Okay. Okay. So are you just so smart that you have remembered these details to ask me these questions or do you have notes in front of you? Oh, well, I have a teleprompter. Okay. So you're looking at the notes. I can flip back and forth. and usually when I say the question, in the very beginning when I do the intro, I'm reading it because I don't want to butcher it. Okay. But then as we're going along, I'll peek at it, I'll read it, and then I'll flash it back down so that I just have my notes. I'm very, very well prepared. So I have a little teleprompter and I just flip back and forth. Well, listen, I've been on many of these interviews and nobody, seriously, okay, no bullshit.

36:57I've never seen an interviewer who makes better eye contact and yet seemingly has all these facts memorized. Thank you. Never. So that's why I asked you how you did it because I was all set for you to tell me, no guy, I did all my research and it's all up here. Well, a lot of it is. A lot of the conversation has been all up here. And a lot of the conversation, like I'm just flipping through and being like, oh yeah, I wanted to ask about that. And I don't have time to read it all, but I just see like little bits of it. And, you know, part of the confidence is just writing it all out and preparing.

37:32So I hope that you don't edit this part of the conversation out. But I want all you people listening to this podcast that Hala is a fantastic interviewer. And I say that and I consider myself a fantastic interviewer. Thank you. That's so sweet. Thank you so much. That's so nice. I won't cut it out because there's whatever. I prepared. I always tell everybody, you got to prepare, man. I go on interviews and you know what they do to me sometimes? I hop on. How do you pronounce your name? Yeah. I'm like, oh, you say you haven't listened to one episode. Why am I on here? I have a theory. We're going down a deep hole right now.

38:13We are. I have a theory that I like to start my podcast with a question that sets the interviewee back in the sense like, holy shit, guy really read the entire book. Me too. He's not asking a question from the intro or chapter one. He's asking a question from the middle of the book or he's asking a question that, God, he watched some YouTube video like 10 years ago that I did. This is not just somebody stuck the Wikipedia entry in front of him and said, OK, go ask, you know, Jane Good all these questions. 100%. Yeah, I do that, too. I'll make sure that I say something just so that they feel comfortable, like, OK, this is going to be a good interview because she actually like knows these little details.

39:01Yep. I didn't just read your Wikipedia page. Yeah. All right. So let's get back to the actionable advice for these young and profiting podcast listeners. Well, but that's actionable, Holla. I mean, the lesson here is 99.9 % of the people, whether it's podcasting or entrepreneurship or, you know, whatever, don't freaking prepare. Yeah. They think they're just a very good example of this is pitching your company. So most entrepreneurs believe that they're natural communicators. They're going to rise to the top. They're going to rise to the occasion and they're going to just pitch from their hearts that it's going to work out right because they're natural.

39:45And that's total unequivocal bullshit. And so you need to prepare. I want to stick on this. Yeah. So if Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs used to prepare for weeks for a keynote. And if Steve Jobs needs to prepare for weeks, guess what? You are not Steve Jobs. Not you. How are you listening? You are not Steve Jobs. So if Steve Jobs needed weeks, you probably need months. And I have to say, having a good pitch skills, being able to demo your product. This is so key. I have a funny story, too. So when I was first starting Yap Media, I was just I had my podcast two years into it. Grew this brand. People were asking me to be their client.

40:26I kept pushing it away. And then finally I was like, fine, I'll give this a shot. I had volunteers and interns and I was like, I'll hire them. Right. I remember I went, I had a billionaire that was interested in my services. His name is Jason Waller, still my client. And I had no website. I had no logo. I wasn't even incorporated. I had no trademark, nothing. All I had was my PowerPoint presentation skills and I was a good presenter and I did it for myself already. And so I went in, I gave a pitch and I closed, like my first deal was a$30 ,000 monthly retainer from a freaking PowerPoint presentation that I just designed really nicely.

41:02And so it just goes to show you, if you can pitch and demo, you can make so much out of literally nothing. Well, especially now, if you use Canva instead of PowerPoint, you would have gotten a 50 ,000 retainer. I did use Canva. I've been a user of Canva for like, I've been like, I don't know how they're not sponsoring me. I've been using Canva for like five years. I work for them. They don't sponsor me. I literally made my presentation on Canva. Oh, great. But you know, the lesson there is, but you prepared obviously, right? That's number one. I was preparing my whole life. It's like you prepare, like preparing with so many different things, like presenting at HP, presenting at Disney presenting my MBA.

41:46It was just like many, many experiences that led up to that moment that changed my life. Yep. And so the lesson there is you got to show up and you got to be gritty. As I said before, standing by the side of the river, the roast duck is not going to fly in your mouth. Yeah. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.

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46:31I want to hear more advice about your pitching skills, because I know that you talk about it a lot with evangelism. So like, how should like, what should we do? How should we prepare for a demo? Like, what do we need to know? Okay. So first of all, I think the key to a pitch is the preparation and the preparation for an entrepreneur. Let's say you're pitching to a venture capital firm. So you had better know who's in that room, where they came from, what school did they go to? What are their interests? What are they invested in? What boards are they on? Everything like that. You're looking for hooks that, oh, we both went to Stanford.

47:08We both like to surf. You're on the bar of copper, and I love copper as my CRM solution. You're looking for hooks to differentiate yourself from the other dumbasses that came in at 8, 9, 10, 1, 2, and 3. You're the four o 'clock appointment, right? So everybody said we have patent-pending, curve-jumping, paradigm-shifting way to dent the universe. We're going to provide you with unbelievable shareholder returns while enabling our employees to self-actualize their life goals or exceeding the expectations of our customers. Every entrepreneur says that. Nobody says I'm a dumbass who's lazy, okay?

47:45So you have to find hooks. And the hooks are LinkedIn is God's gift to pitching, basically. If you don't study LinkedIn before pitch, something is wrong with you. You're an idiot. Have a sign on your head that says, I am clueless. So that's the preparation. I think initial concept is you can never be too brief. I've never sat in a presentation or a pitch and said, this was too short. It was too succinct. Something is wrong. I have never, ever said that. And I've sat in thousands of pitches. So there's the Guy Kawasaki 10, 20 or 30 rule, which is 10 slides in 20 minutes, 30 point font minimum. So that's a good sort of foundation or framework.

48:29The other metaphor that I would love for entrepreneurs to understand is to think of yourself as an airplane or a pilot in an airplane. And at two ends of the spectrum in airplanes, there is the 787 Airbus A380 at one end. And at the other end, there's the F-15, there's the, you know, the F-18, the whatever. And so the A380 and the 787, they have two miles of runway and they go rumbling down. And then at the end of two miles, they take off and everybody says, how the hell can half a million pounds ever exceed? But anyway, it's a miracle that those planes take off. At the other end, you're on an aircraft carrier, you get in this plane, you have 150 meters to get off the flight deck, or you fall in the water and you die.

49:20And I think most entrepreneurs think they are piloting a 787. So they come into this pitch and they say, well, let me tell you my life story. My great grandfather came over on the Mayflower and he landed in New Canaan Connected. And then he started a horseshoe business. And then, and then, okay, finally. So, you know, then they made it rich. So they endowed a fellowship at Yale. And I got into Yale and then the first summer I worked at Goldman Sachs. And then I got an Harvard MBA and I started at HP in the internship program. And then I took Windows those classes, and finally I decided to start a company.

49:56Okay, that's the Airbus A380. The F-18 pilot has got to get off the deck, and you should be an F-18 pilot. So in the first 30 seconds, everybody in that room should understand what you do. I have sat in so many pitches where they're talking about their whole family heritage, their education, their strategy, the size of the internet. Oh, the internet's going to be big. You know that, right? So let me explain how big the internet will be. And this is right now. And so they're this Airbus A380 trying to get down this two mile runway. And I'm sitting there, I'm thinking, is this hardware? Is this software?

50:32Is this e-commerce? Is this social networking? Is this AI? What the hell do they do? And so I think the most important lessons are be brief, prepare and get your ass off the tarmac as fast as you can. 30 seconds into it, they should understand this is a software company. This is a cloud-based software company. What does Canva do? It democratizes design so you don't need Photoshop. There, I said it. Five seconds. I love that. And practice, right? I'll hop on discovery calls. I know they can't afford my services and I'll just do it to practice, right? Practice your pitch. How about who we should pitch to?

51:10So there's the right people and the wrong people, and some of them are really uphill battle. So I'd love to hear that. Well, you may not agree with this piece of advice, but I think that when you're starting out, you should pitch to anybody who'll listen. I don't think you can be proud. Now, of course, you know, we'd all like to pitch to John Doerr or the general partner, the big cheese at Sequoia or Kleiner Perkins or whoever, right? We'd love to pitch to Elon Musk. We'd love to pitch to Tim Cook, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm telling you, when you start off, you should just pitch to anybody who'll listen.

51:44And it's for the reason that you mentioned that, you know, yeah, you may be starting with a summer intern who's not going to make a decision to write you a check for 5 million bucks, but 20 summer interns later, you will be meeting with a partner. At that point, it's too late. You need to have had 25 rejections and 25 practice sessions to be ready for this great meeting. And you have to pay the price. Yeah. So what about like more generally though? Like when it comes to evangelism and trying to market a product, you don't want to market a product to people who just don't believe in it. You want to go agnostic.

52:24I want to hear those lessons from you. So I would say that here we go with some sort of conflicting advice. On the one hand, I would say that you should pitch even a product to anybody who'll listen. It's good practice. And you may never know. You may think that this person is not qualified, but this is a summer intern or secretary, administrative aid, customer service manager, whatever. Not the decision maker. But guess what? The decision maker is listening to this person because this person really does the work. Or this person you're pitching to spouse is a decision maker at another company.

53:01You just never know. So I'm really into indiscriminate pitches. I think it's also humbling that you should not think that you are so freaking important that unless you are talking to the CXO, this company is not worthy of your time. Frankly, you're bullshit. You're full of shit. Anyway, so that's one thing. Now, on the other hand, as you say, you could be wasting a lot of time doing what I'm saying. And I freely admit that. But I would say that, yes, go for it. Go do your qualification and figure out who the decision maker, et cetera, et cetera, is. Yes. And again, LinkedIn is your greatest weapon in this.

53:43But if you said, okay, guy, should you pitch too much or too little? Should you evangelize too much or too little? I would say too much. Err on the side of doing too much. And this is completely in the face of the concept of select a few targets, know them well, get just the most highly qualified, specific, use a rifle. I'm telling you, use a shotgun. Yeah. I mean, this goes back to a lot of the things that we've been touting today, like expanding your luck, showing up, getting practice, preparing, right? It's just all those things combined because you never know who you pitch to, like what that will end up being or who will end up being in 20 years even.

54:26Okay, I'll tell you a great story that you as a podcaster will truly appreciate. Sure. So do you know who Angela Duckworth is? Yes. MacArthur Award winner, you know, grit, right? Yes. Okay, big deal. Maybe she's your client. Not my client, but probably will be on my podcast soon. Okay, so who among us as a podcaster would not want to have Angela Duckworth? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody in their right mind. Maybe Joe Rogan would have won. But anyway, so I want Angela Duckworth, right? So I don't know her. So I send an email to whatever, info at AngelaDuckworth.com. No response. Weeks go by. And I default to yes.

55:03I kind of say, I really didn't know exactly what I was getting into today, but I default to yes. Now, if you think that I did all the research and you had Marshall Goldsmith and how many followers are, you're the most influential person on LinkedIn and all. And that's why I said, yes, you can believe that. God bless you. But that's not the truth. The truth is I default to yes. So I default to yes. And one day I'm on this podcast as a guest. And the person starts off by saying, yeah, so, you know, hi, my name is whatever, Trixie Smith. And I live in, I don't know, Mobile, Alabama, and I am a freshman in high school.

55:38Oh, boy. And so we're going to talk about whatever, innovation, right? And I was sitting there saying, God, you are such a dumbass. Like, why did you accept to waste an hour of your life on a podcast with a 14-year-old person from Alabama. Not that I have anything against Alabama, but you know, and she probably has five subscribers to her podcast, mom and dad, aunt, uncle, and younger brother. Okay. But lo and behold, man, she asks great questions. And then at the end of this podcast, I say to her, who else have you had on your podcast? I'm thinking, who else was dumb enough to say Yes, right?

56:16And she said, oh, two weeks ago, I had Angela Duckworth. And my freaking jaw is on the ground, right? I said, you had Angela Duckworth. How did you get Angela Duckworth? She goes, well, Angela Duckworth really likes to help young women succeed. So I, as a young woman, reached out to her. She said, yes. I said, okay. I said, so how about this? Will you ask Angela Duckworth to be on my podcast? She says, yes. So she, 14-year-old girl in, like I said, Mobile, Alabama with Over the Moon podcast, she writes to Angela Duckworth, CCs me, and lo and behold, Angela Duckworth answers. And one thing leads to another, and I get Angela Duckworth on my podcast.

56:55Amazing. So that's, people might think, oh, guy, everybody knows who you are, you're a big deal, blah, blah, blah. So that's how you, even Angela Duckworth would be thrilled to be on your podcast. You know, she's probably just checking info at AngelaDuckworth.com every half an hour, looking for that invite. But the truth is, it was a 14-year-old podcaster from Mobile, Alabama, with five subscribers who got me Angela Duckworth. Now, every entrepreneur should listen to that story and say, huh, what's the point? Point is, you never know. You never know. For all you know, for all you know, her grandfather was Warren Buffett.

57:33Who knows, right? Exactly. Well, that's cool. I want to find out her name and help her. I can't remember. Now I want to be like Angela Duckworth and help this girl. That's right. All right. So let's talk about enchantment before we go. I know we're wrapping up on time here, but I love this concept of like, likability, first impressions and making people like you more. So I'd love to hear your best advice and guidance when it comes to being more enchanting. Okay. So enchantment, I think, has several pillars. One is likability, because it's hard to be enchanted by someone you don't like. Let's face it, right?

58:11So there's likability. There's also sort of competence that it's hard to like people who are incompetent bozos. That's the second leg. And the third thing is trustworthiness, because you could like somebody. You could like some TikTok influencer. That doesn't mean you trust that TikTok influencers. You could like Paris Hilton. That doesn't mean you trust Paris Hilton. So likability, trustworthy, and competence. Those are the three pillars of enchantment. And so this book Enchantment is about how to increase all three of those things. As far as likability, I think a lot of it is just, well, this was written before the pandemic, right?

58:51So I think a lot of likability is what is your handshake like? Is it like wimpy or are you trying to crush the person's hand or is it in the middle? What is your smile like? Is it a grit your teeth, hold the pencil in your teeth kind of smile? Or is it a legitimate, happy Duchenne smile? Are you showing crow's feet? You're too young to have crow's feet, holla. But are you showing your crow's feet or not? Because crow's feet is a very good indication of sincerity and smiling. So it's those kinds of things. And a third thing in likability is, are you accepting people for what they are? Or are you trying to change them?

59:27And so I think people can pick up when you know, you like you can sense that this person thinks that I should be a Democrat or I should be a Republican or I should be something that I'm not. It's hard to like people who don't accept you for what you are. And I know that you say you also should be aligned to a good cause. Yes. And I thought this was really interesting because you wrote the book in 2011. And in the last year, I feel like every other conversation I have is like conscious business, conscious leadership, right? Like everybody wants to talk about aligning purpose with a good cause. And it seems more recent because I've been doing this for four or five years.

1:00:05And now everyone's talking about that. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you think we should align ourselves to a good cause. And you've obviously thought this for a long time. Well, just to be clear, I'm not saying you should align yourself with a good cause because it's good marketing and good financial returns and good all. And that, although those may be true, don't get me wrong. Byproducts, yeah. Yeah, it is a byproduct. And I just believe that there is a karmic scoreboard in the sky. And this karmic scoreboard is tallying what you do with your life. and if you jack people around and screw them and you, you know, you like trash the earth and all that, it's being counted someplace.

1:00:49Now you can say, guy, you're so full of shit. You know, like you do have any scientific proof of this Karmic school board? Not at all. You know, you can't prove God either, but you know, I digress, but I'm just saying, you know, with something like this, why take a chance? Why take a chance? I mean, you're only talking about your life, your reputation, and who knows, maybe your afterlife. So, you know, do you want to be stuck in a 737 in a center seat in the smoking section or you want to be in Singapore Airlines or, you know, Emirates Airbus A380? It's up to you. So I just think it's good karma.

1:01:22Yeah. I love your default. Yes. I'm the same way. I just say yes. Yeah. If you can help somebody, if you have the time, why not? Even if you don't have the time. Yeah. Well, this has been such a great conversation, Guy. I always end my interviews with the same couple of questions and then we do some fun stuff at the end of the year. So the first one is, what is a piece of actionable advice that my young and profiter's can do today to become more profiting tomorrow? You can learn how to truly empathize. That is, this goes beyond market research. So market research is basically go and see. Go see how people live.

1:02:02Go whatever. I would say if you want to do it even better, you go and be, which means you go and be the person. Like you, let's say you're doing a study of customer service. So you could go to the customer service center and you could see what happens on the call lines. Or you could actually put the headset on and be the customer service person. Or you could actually call into your company's customer service and be the customer. Empathy is a great skill and it'll just open your eyes to so many things. Oh my gosh, I love that advice. And what is your secret to profiting in life? And this doesn't have to be monetary.

1:02:43Profiting is whatever you believe it is. Listen to your wife. How's that? Why? Because women are smarter than men. I truly do believe that. Like if you look at this world right now, men have screwed this world up from top to bottom for centuries. I think we should let women run the world. I mean, what a better place to stop the interview right then and there. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Well, if you truly want to see my best work, go to remarkablepeople.com. Just a word of caution here. Remarkable people is not guy spouting off about how to be remarkable.

1:03:22Remarkable People is Guy getting people like Jane Goodall and Steve Wozniak and Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ariana Huffington and Christy Yamaguchi. And I could just go on Angela Duckworth on and on. I'm trying to get the wisdom from them into you. That's what I'm doing on Remarkable People. I love it. Well, if you guys like my podcast, I think you're going to love Guys. So make sure you check it out. We'll stick all of his links in the show notes. And thank you so much for this amazing conversation. My pleasure. And maybe I should have you on the podcast. I would love to be on the podcast. They call me the podcast princess.

1:03:59I built a media empire. I have 60 employees, started it as a side hustle. I'd love to be on your podcast. I think you're the podcast queen. Forget the princess. Oh, thank you. I'm not saying you're old. No, I know. I feel like I want the princess for a few years and then I'll graduate to queen. Okay. Alrighty. All the best to you. Take care. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye.