How to Stop Buying a Life That Isn't Yours | Hanna Horvath, CFP®

22:24Hanna Horvath:By the way, I love where you're going with this. Yeah, I mean, I'm spending like - I hope you spend$100 a day on this coffee. I'm spending like$7 on this coffee every day. And like any financial expert, if you went to them, they're like, oh, that's not essential. Cut that out. Cut that out. However, I know a lot of the regulars. I know the people that work there. I'll go there. I'll drink my coffee. I'll talk to people. It's an anchoring location for me in the community. And it brings me unbelievable joy and contentedness. It's a really big part of my day. And like I said before, I'm someone that really values community.

22:53So it's very important for me to have this. And so again, to me, that is essential. But that couple hundred dollars that I'm spending a month on this overpriced coffee, that is giving multitudes of returns beyond that price. And so once you start to think in terms of that, of like, what is actually bringing me joy, then you're able to say, okay, I need to keep this thing, but this is other thing that is not actually bringing me a ton of joy that I can cut out.

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24:42Hanna Horvath:Gelt can save you money and simplify your life, and they'll give you a free consultation to see if it's the right fit for you. Head to joingelt.com slash Tyler. That's J-O-I-N-G-E-L-T dot com slash Tyler. and one of the things i've also heard you reflect on is this idea that as we come into more and more money one of the things we try to do is make our life as easy as possible is this a good thing and again i ask very selfishly here because as i get my i'm like oh i do want to make my life easier is it a good thing that we want to take away walking down to the local shop and just having someone come to my door.

25:29Hanna Horvath:And I'm thinking mainly of this hyper extreme COVID style where there were wonderful articles written and disturbing articles written about how the ultra wealthy were almost going back into, and the analogy was the mother's womb, and that it was this ultra protected space where they didn't have to deal with anything outside and food came to their house and workout people came to their house and everything was delivered to them. So is that a good thing? And I'm not, I'm not trying to bias this. I'm genuinely curious about this. Is this good to make it that easy? This is such an interesting topic and it's so nuanced, but I will say, so time is our most finite resource.

26:13I definitely would argue the power of, if you have the means, maybe you do want to save the time. Like for example, I really hate doing laundry. I'm doing you know wash and fold down the street so for me that is like giving me returns that money that I'm spending because I'm avoiding doing something I really really don't want to do as I've written about a lot you know we're in this culture of hyper convenience like it has never been easier to purchase something offload something onto somebody else and I would argue that not only does that make it easier to spend money which is not always a good thing but it also can create the sense of isolationism, which I think, is that a good thing to not be exposed to the world in a meaningful way?

26:59A big theme I find myself keep coming back to, especially this year, is the sense of community and how not having community is actually very expensive. And when you're not interacting with people that are not like you or just other people in your community, you lose something there. There is something lost there. And I think it's important to think about beyond just like the straightforward monetary, like, okay, I'm saving this much money or this much time to do X, Y, Z. What else is lost? And something that I advocate for, I know, and I will say I do live in a city that's a little bit more walkable than a lot of other places in America.

27:35But what happens if we bring friction back into the buying process or just making things a little bit more inconvenient for yourself to build that community or to interact with other people? And the question I keep asking is, like, should this be that convenient? You know, and I think there is definitely a line to walk there.

27:53Hanna Horvath:Yeah, you're kind of getting to this idea of, OK, so let's say we have a lot of money and we're able to buy back our time. And now I'll kind of throw this back on you. What do I do with that time? So let's say that some of our listeners are inundated daily with all of these, and I'll throw myself under the bus and everybody who claims that they're a financial influencer in one way or another. When someone says the old cliche, time is the most finite resource and it's more valuable than money. I always pause there because I almost feel like there's something missing with the conversation when we just leave it at that, that time in and of itself is valuable.

28:32Hanna Horvath:if we're not going to take that next step and offer, well, what am I doing to fill that time? Because I could sit here in my house for 12 hours in a day and not be beholden to a boss or a W-2. I don't know if that instantaneously makes that time incredibly valuable or wonderful because I feel isolated in the woods of Vermont. And again, I'm a hermit, so I'm fine with that. But can you reflect a little bit on what time means to you as you get older and as you understand money and spaces and third spaces, especially more? Yes, I completely agree with this point. Because, again, we're in this culture, mass convenience and also like mass productivity of like this feeling like you always need to be doing something, especially something that's like connected to monetization or money.

29:25Hanna Horvath:So well said. And so I think that raises such a good point where it's like, yeah, okay, fine. I'm taking my clothes down the street to do wash and full, but what am I doing with that safe time? Am I sitting on my couch scrolling on my phone? I would argue like, that's not a good use of time. In fact, I probably should be doing laundry in that scenario. And so something that I'm really focused on in my personal life is, can I do something without thinking about labor or just doing something for the sake of doing it? Like a great example is like, I'm a terrible artist, but I draw, I doodle all the time.

29:56There's no end goal. And again, remember, I'm type A. So like usually if I start doing something, I'm like.

30:01Hanna Horvath:Wow. Good for you. I'm impressed. I'm like, if I start like trying to learn something, I'm like, how do I become pro in three months? And so I'm like, how do I just do something for the sake of doing it? And I think it's really important if it's possible to be out in the world and come in contact with more people. Because I think it makes you more empathetic. I think it makes you more understanding of other people and also the world. And so I think, again, you raised just such a good point where it's, are you paying for convenience because you just want to kind of isolate yourself? Or are you paying for it in order to make room for something better or greater?

30:37Building community is not always exciting or fun. And it can be, you know, you're interacting with people you might not know. It can be awkward. And it's like this relentless showing up over and over and over again. And I think because we're in this culture of like instant gratification and convenience, people feel like if I'm not perfect at this or I don't have a community in one week, I'm going to give up. And it's way easier to sit and scroll on your phone than go out and show up at this thing and put yourself out there kind of over and over again. And I want to connect this back to money because when you are lonely, scrolling your phone at home, it's way easier for you to be sold to.

31:12So I think a lot of companies in this larger kind of system that we're in, like, they want you to kind of be digitally isolated and alone. And so that's why I'm like, one of the best things that you can do for yourself in terms of your money is like, go outside and talk to another human being.

31:26Hanna Horvath:I'm really clinging to your quest slash mission to inspire more people to become more a part of a community in person. So can I ask, is there anything that I, because I'm kind of envious too, that you are in the city. And I know, again, I'm just, the grass is always greener. Well, not in the city, but you know what I mean? Yeah, definitely not. And I'm wondering if when you're there, are there things that you have found are really accessible for you re-community? Like, are there things that you were, or even differently phrased, are there ways that you are going out and proactively creating the type of community for which you're advocating here?

32:08Definitely. And I will just say too, okay, so I've lived in New York City for almost nine years. And I want to emphasize, it's not something that happens overnight. And it's not always exciting and fun or even successful. I mean, there's, you know, for every uh like event i have or social event i have where i'm like this was amazing i feel so supported and you know i'll have another one where i'm like that was kind of awkward and it was you know okay so but but how i get involved in my communities like i said i've lived in my current neighborhood in brooklyn for almost five years and whenever i have moved to a new neighborhood i very much am like i'm going outside i'm going to the local businesses i'm spending time and getting to know those people that own businesses in the community.

32:52Because usually those are kind of like the community leaders. In New York, especially, there's a lot of ways to get involved, whether that be a community board or volunteering. I'm a huge advocate for doing that because you want to get involved. You want to treat your community like a home. And even if you only want to spend a year there, it pays to be kind of invested in the long-term success of that neighborhood. And I'm a huge advocate for that. So again, volunteering is also a great way. I host a lot of dinner parties. And again, it's like an open invite thing. Sometimes a lot of people show up, sometimes a few people show up.

33:24And so it's just, again, having that like, okay, every other Sunday, I'll host this dinner party and just having that kind of regular touchstone. And again, I live in a walkable city. So I live around a lot of people that I know, I know it's harder in other places, but it's like, okay, I'm going to run these errands. Maybe somebody wants to run errands with me. And so like kind of building that able to build that kind of social events within like the context of your daily life and stuff you're doing, I think is very helpful, but it's messy. And it's kind of long work to kind of build all this stuff.

33:51But like I said before, the more you're doing that kind of stuff, the more you're like off your phone, the more you are sharing wisdom with each other, you're learning from each other. And just I think the overall like happier, happy you are generally.

34:05Hanna Horvath:So if I'm listening to this right now, and I'm curious that whether I'm in New York City, or Vermont or Nebraska or the UK. And I'm wondering, what are some steps that I could take to transition away from thinking about money and time in this, we keep coming back to this kind of the word just traditional sense of let's just say that someone is really occupied today with thinking about their net worth, their tax optimization, and their use of every minute for monetization purposes. What are some practical steps that I could take to start to shift that pendulum back the other way? You know, are there any things that you have found truly successful to just say, look, let's wake up, let's take the other pill, go down the rabbit hole a little bit, and realize there are some other ways to think about this.

34:58Hanna Horvath:And here's what we're going to do starting today. So the first thing, and I know I kind of said this before, but I'm just it bears repeating, is like, what do you actually want to do with your life? Like, what is your plan? I genuinely, genuinely do not think that people sit down and have these kind of conversations or thought exercises with themselves, or spend enough meaningful time on it. And so it's like, what do you want to get out of life? What do you actually care about? What do you value? Once you understand that, it's a lot easier to kind of make these decisions. The second thing is really just bringing more awareness to your current relationship and habits with money.

35:30And so in my newsletter, I talk about these kind of three forces that control our money decisions. The first is like those internal forces. And so that's like your beliefs about money, how money makes you feel, your emotions, your lived experiences with money, all that stuff. The second thing is like social forces. So like your social media algorithm, the people around you, just thinking through like how they are influencing you. And then the third thing is like these structural forces. So like the policies that make it easier or harder for you to build wealth or access wealth and the products you're using.

36:02I think we can all agree there's plenty of products out there that can be quite manipulative and get you to spend money or whatever. And then once you have that awareness and once you understand yourself, you can then start to make more deliberate decisions about money. And the caveat I give to all of this is like, you need to have self-compassion, especially if you are somebody that like, like me, that is like very locked into the like, I want to optimize things as much as humanly possible. I want to, you know, make sure every minute of my life is hyperproductive. You have to understand you're not a robot.

36:34Maybe you can achieve it for a day, but you're not going to achieve it in any sort of sustainable long term way. Okay, have some self compassion, you're gonna mess up. You know, I always say to like, Oh, you're probably so good with your money. I'm like, Listen, I'm just more aware that I'm making all these mistakes. But again, it's just like one of those things where it's like, Okay, I did this thing. I would say most of our money decisions, unless you like, accidentally bought a house. Most of these financial decisions you're making are pretty small and not super consequential over the longterm.

37:01Okay. Let's just move on. Let's just keep moving forward. And it's like building that resilience. So you're not getting bogged down by like shame and a little bit of a tangent, but something that happens to me constantly. And I think I brought this up at the beginning of the conversation is I'll tell people, Oh, I'm a CFP. You know, I talked to people about money and they always say, Oh, I'm so bad with money.

37:21Hanna Horvath:Yes. And I'm like, stop saying that. Like, stop saying that. Because one, it's an identifying statement. So if you believe that you're bad with money, it's gonna be really hard to become good with money because you've internalized that belief. And two, it's like, it's again, it's like one of the things where it's like, you just got to keep moving on, you're not gonna be able to kind of get build that resilience and really build a better relationship if you're stuck in this place of just believing you're you're bad, so to speak. That's really interesting. I can connect that to a situation that I used to bring up with English students.

37:49Hanna Horvath:So in my 20s, I taught English. And one of the things I'd always hear from 14 and 15 year olds was, well, I'm a terrible writer. And the only question I started asking in response was, how frequently do you write? The answer was maybe one hour a week and usually forced via some structural homework assignment. And I said, OK, well, you're a hockey player. How often do you play hockey? And they say, well, about two hours a day. Say, okay, so if we want to be good at something and now kind of bringing this back to money, the forums in which people can go and talk about money or experience money or reflect on money are so few and far between or ultimately really difficult to access because they need a certain net worth to work with this person or need to join this investing community.

38:41Hanna Horvath:that it's no surprise that someone would not feel confident with money if they don't have the space to go and talk about it and reflect on it and get better at it, right, and understand it. But ultimately, I think, so I want to kind of tie that back to your first point where you say, look, before anything else, we need to figure out what we value in life. And I will push back on this and say, I think that's the hardest question. And I really do believe that anybody even listening to this conversation when you went on to step two, I'll bet there were people who said, wait a minute, I'm not past step one yet.

39:17Hanna Horvath:And there's a great old scene. I would call this the new version of the Italian job, but now it's probably 20 years old. So it's the old version of the new Italian job. But there's a scene where Edward Norton, who's supposed to be the villain in the movie, He finally gets all this money. And when he's trying to figure out what to do with it, the punchline is that the only thing he could figure out to spend the money on was what all of his friends or ex-friends at this point had said they were going to spend money on. So he had bought this great sound system. He had bought this great television.

39:50Hanna Horvath:He had bought this great car. But none of it was what he wanted. It was what he had been told he should want if he had millions and millions of dollars. So I'm just wondering if there's any more way to kind of think through, to me, what I think some people spend their entire lives thinking about is what do I actually spend money on and what do I value? And before I move to that step two and step three, which is phenomenal, and I would love to get there, but can I cut through all this noise and really figure out what do I value? And are there any techniques that you found that really do help me just a little bit more understand what that looks like for me so I'm not buying just what my friends want to buy?

40:34Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And I will just I will actually maybe add the caveat where also it will change over the course of your life. Like 25 year old Hannah will probably have vastly different values than like 65 year old Hannah. I'm just gonna assume maybe she won't. But, you know, so again, it's like it's like this ongoing lifelong thing. so when I say like what do you value maybe we can soften a little bit and like what is bringing you contentedness and fulfillment right now and also when you think about your life I mean I'm not saying everybody has to have every single answer because again these things will change but maybe you know you want to have kids maybe you know that you want to travel you know for six months or take a sabbatical you already know that about yourself that's a great place to start because if you feel like sure about something, that's like kind of maybe a place you can start and then you can back into like, okay, why do I want to do, why do I want to take a sabbatical so bad?

41:29Or why do I want to have children? Is it because I value stability? And then again, you can kind of then back into things a little bit, but also understand that like all this is very malleable and it will change. And I guess the thought exercise then and like a better way of defining step one is just thinking like, because again, so many of our money decisions are just on autopilot and are just influenced by other people around us and are not driven by ourselves. So just think like, okay, what would make me happy right now? What's like bringing me fulfillment? And then again, then maybe it's that step two of like awareness of like, how am I currently spending my money?

42:00Is it in alignment with things that make me fulfilled? Or is it just because I had a really bad day at work and then this Instagram ad told me to go buy this thing? And then I think you can start to see where is there a disconnect between things that bring you happiness and fulfillment and things that don't.

42:16Hanna Horvath:That is helpful. if I wanted to connect with you after this show, if I were listening right now and saying this sounds a little more refreshing or a little more human than my current advisor or my current coaching or just the way I think about money, where are some of the ways that people can find you or connect with you? Yeah, definitely. So I do one-on-one financial planning myself, though it's heavily rooted in behavioral stuff. So you'll get what you would normally get from a CFP, but a lot of the work I do is also very much wrapped up in like, let's like go through this exercise that we're just talking about.

42:51And it's nice, I think, at least in my experience of working with other people to have that sounding board, because just kind of talking about these things out loud can help guide you in the right direction. Because again, a lot of people I don't think have had these sorts of thought exercises or had these sorts of conversations before. That's one thing I do. I also have a newsletter called Your Brain on Money, where I write a lot about these kind of broader forces that shape how we think about money and ourselves. And I do content around that too. You can find me on almost every social channel there is.

43:21Hanna Horvath:Well, that's how I first found you, obviously it was the social channels. And I will tell everyone listening that if you don't know Hannah Horvath, you should look her up. The writing is fantastic. The thinking is fantastic. Hannah, thanks for spending the time today. I know, again, you've got plenty to write about and think about. And I hope this was a quasi-decent use of your time. But I really appreciate your taking the time to chat about all this today. And I am sure that it will prove very useful for people listening. Thanks for tuning in to your money guide on the side. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to visit my website at tylergardner.com for even more helpful resources and insights.

44:00Hanna Horvath:And if you're interested in receiving some quick and actionable guidance each week, don't forget to sign up for my weekly newsletter, where each Sunday I share three actionable financial ideas to help you take control of your money and investments. You can find the signup link on my website, tylergardner.com or on any of my socials at social cap official. Until next time, I'm Tyler Gardner, your money guide on the side. And I truly hope this episode got you one step closer to where you need to be.