Meta's scorched earth approach to AI, Tesla's future, TikTok bill, FTC bans noncompetes, wealth tax

27:49So first of all, the GDP growth rate has slowed to 1 .6 percent in Q1. So this just came out. And that was a notable slowdown relative to expectations. So first of all, you're dealing with the slowing economy. It seems like second high interest rates mean that car payments are higher. If you want to finance the purchase of a car, your car payments can be a lot higher when the straights are about 5 % and I think that has been a pretty big headwind for Tesla and really all the car companies over the last year or so But I would say that I think both of those things are ultimately cyclical and what matters is Tesla's products I would say the only issue they have that's a real long -term issue is just the Chinese competition companies like BDY are ramping up production of knockoff products at low prices.

28:40And so managing the competition with China is probably the only one of these issues that's I think probably a long -term issue for them to deal with. Let me ask a question here. How do you rank these businesses? Energy, Optimus, Trucking, Ride Sharing. Energy, Optimus, the robot, Trucking, Ride Hailing. rank those your number one or two in terms of potential for Tesla, Chema, around the horn. It's a good question. Right sharing is number one. The absolute probably by an order of magnitude. And the reason I say that is in order for right sharing and right healing to really work, the way that they envision it, you will have level five autonomy supported in jurisdictions where, again, if you just look at part two, the whole point is you can summon a car from your app, and if you don't have access to a mobile phone, you can go to these bus stop equivalents and just press a button and the car comes to you.

29:48And so in that world, there's just so much value add in terms of passenger safety and sustainability for the environment and less profit. It's a gargantuan game changer. or, meanwhile, what should number two, sorry, mean, well, and sorry, just to contrast the way Uber and Lyft seemingly are profitable because they find pricing power to raise prices. So if Tesla enters in as a third player in that field and just guts pricing, which I think would make sense for them to do, I think this thing is just gangbusters nuclear. The so it's really interesting point. What do you got, Sachs? You want to run the horn here?

30:26Well, I already said Optimus, but that's based on a long term view. Yeah, this is a long -term question based on the long term one and two in the long term in terms of option value I'm and the most Intrigue by the robot play and Elon has pointed out that once you have robots that are capable of doing lots of different jobs Pretty much any job you point them at That we can have more robots on earth than humans So it's a it's a big future markets. So you got Optimus number one and who is number two? I hear it's Martha the short term that ride sharing could really reach its its logical conclusion with with Robo Taxis.

31:09Remember when you know Uber first gained steam and people were speculating about how big the market could be there was a lot of giddy talk about how car ownership would change and you wouldn't need to buy a car anymore because you would just like use Uber all the time. We called it going full Uber. Yeah. And actually I went full Uber or I shouldn't say full. I went mostly Uber like within a couple of years of discovery. Yeah, I knew one of the first. Yeah. So I thought the potential was there, but the problem is it was just too expensive. I mean, Uber is still quite expensive. And the most expensive piece of it is the human driving the car.

31:47It's all that labor cost. So if you're able to charge for the ride purely based on Fractionalizing the cap X and that cap X isn't even that high because they're making these row of taxis pretty cheaply now Hmm, and you're able to get so much more utilization out of a car Exactly right because I mean how many hours a day do you drive your own car like an hour maybe That a robot taxi 90 % I think is the number on average that they're not used free broke who's your one and two? I think the optimist has the highest alpha but the highest beta. So you know, more upside than anything else, just unclear how you get there.

32:31What the path is and the capital requirements. And I think there's going to be a lot of commoditization in this space. But the ride sharing is built in. It's low beta and significant alpha. So you're wanting to optimize right here. Yeah, optimist ride share. What was your number two again, just so I can recap her? I would actually probably pick energy. And why would you pick energy as your number two after ride, Helen? I think it's a pretty obvious disruption if, so today in America, if you look at the energy infrastructure, the utilities keep raising rates and they keep raising rates independent of what it costs to generate energy.

33:09There are 1700 utilities in America. They are by law obligated to spend, I think in the next 10 years, about $2 trillion on CapEx, they will pass all of those costs plus a margin to consumers, even though in these next 10 years, the cost of generating an incremental unit of energy will be essentially free. So I think the very disruptive play is to take 100 million homes and make them many utilities. And what does it mean? Make them utilities. You go to a website. Again, the biggest investment I've made is in a company called Palmeado. They are close to now the largest residential solar business in the United States, if not the largest already.

33:57Now, what do they do? You're a consumer. You can go and lease or buy. It doesn't really matter. And we give you a super cheap system that goes on top of your roof, plus a battery system, and all of a sudden you're totally resilient and independent of the utilities. And we help change the laws so that every time you have excess energy, you can put it back into the grid and get paid, which is called net metering. So if you have a hundred million of these many utilities competing against 1 ,700 incumbents that are forced to make huge investments and are mispriced, that's an upheaval of an enormous amount of market cap, but also an enormous amount of debt.

34:35There's like trillions of dollars of debt. So I've always thought a ginormous directional bet to make would be to go along the disruptor. The person that helps arm the rebels in this case would be the person that arms a hundred million homes. And then eventually at some point just short the debt of these utilities because they won't be able to service them if enough people quit and don't need PG &E and everybody else. It'll be just massively massively disrupted. So that's why I think that market could be big. I like the Optimus market. The only thing that I'll say is in my experience when I've looked at these generalized robots, the conclusion that I came to and I could be totally wrong is I suspect instead of having a generalized robot, you have very specific use -case robots that look differently.

35:23So for example, there's an example Nick you can throw a picture, but there's something called Intuitive Surgical, which is essentially a robot that operates on you. And if you look at that, it doesn't look anything like what you would think a robot would look like. It looks just looks like a ginormous machine. And so I suspect that there will be people that become experts in these vertical use cases. And that will limit the tam for a generalized approach. I could be totally wrong, but that's sort of why I ranked them the way I ranked them. But I'm pretty convinced that robotoxys are number one.

35:55and then this energy thing that upends the 1700 utilities in America is number two. All right, Jake, how you are the third investor in Uber. Are you worried about your investment? As I understand it, you still have a solid, have you? I've sold slightly more than the majority of my holdings over the years to private transactions and then I held everything post, going public. And I'm still long Uber. I give number one to Optimus by far and away because I think the build of materials on Optimus could be 10k or less. I looked at some of these other startups that are in the space and I've been studying it a little bit just at a curiosity.

36:39And so at a 10k bomb, I think they could wrench you one of these for $300 a month or something like that. A subscription, I think every human on planet Earth eventually will have a robot. So I know that's crazy, but I think optimists will dwarf the entire entirety of Tesla's other businesses. Number two is energy clearly. I think a number three is right -haling. Number two energy, fairly obvious what's happening here. If you look at what's happening with data centers, it's spike, I think, from like three or four percent of energy now till like is it 15 % trim off? I think we had a discussion. It's almost, it's almost, I think it's 18%.

37:17It's almost 20%. It's a huge number now. Okay. So we do tell the two stories together. These H100s are beasts, cooling beasts. This is like you can't even, full -doucet was telling us in the group chat. Like you can't even cool some of these places. And what that means is there is going to be demand for energy to Chimaltz Point if each home becomes a little provider. You know, it's going to create some regulation change. I believe I'm no expert on the regulations. We should definitely have Deutsche on the pod at some point to talk about this. But imagine these like in Texas, they keep having the grids go down.

37:53And in Australia, they have the grids go down. It's going to be so annoying for consumers to have the grids go down while demand spikes for data centers. all the regulations are going to get opened up to put batteries and solar everywhere. It's also dangerous. I mean, people die when these blackouts and outages occur. And also, like we saw in St. Carlos here in the Bay Area, that gas lines explode, PG &E is responsible for forest fires. I mean, if you can do your part to basically get off these grids, use somebody like Palmetto or somebody else and just get solar Tesla and be done with it, And at least you're not contributing to some of these downstream errors.

38:35Yeah. And so I agree 100%. And by the way, if you can make money from your solar and your batteries and somebody else picks up the cost of installation, I think there's some arbitrage here. Trump off to be had. And I think that's like what you discovered when you did your first principle approach to this. So I think those two businesses will be far bigger than anything else they're doing. Now, on ride -hailing, I'm using FSD12. I have been using AutoPilot. I was one of the first users of AutoPilot from the beginning, like literally. And FSD12 is a significant improvement. That being said, all of these systems work really well in a controlled grid, like we've seen with Waymo in Arizona, and in limited parts of Los Angeles and San Francisco.

39:27I think that vision is five, six, seven years out from having low single digit percentages. And you may have seen Uber has incorporated Waymo and the taxis in London into their system. I think Uber is ultimately going to be the place people go to call up one of 20 different self -driving. I think a lot of people are going to get there at the same time. Wouldn't be surprised if Elon gets there first. But I think that's five or 10 years out if I'm being totally honest, you know, in terms of getting to scale. So I would never, ever bet against Elon, seeing what he's done watching. When are you saying that self driving will be good enough to power just one robo taxi?

40:08Let's just forget about the scale just like when will it be good enough to have like a steering wheel free car? Yeah. So if you, you can just look at cruise and Waymo and you can have your answer, which is Today, in a contained environment with remote drivers intervening on some regular basis, it works. So, people are taking away most San Francisco LA on a pretty regular basis cruise. I think I kicked out of San Francisco. But in the cruise data, there was a lot of interventions going on. I suspect Waymo is doing a lot of intervention. So, I think... I don't want to be a proponent of this, by the way, but bleep out his name.

40:45was saying that Jason with FSD, they're very strict that you have to be holding this steering wheel and stuff. Yes, but you can go to Ali Baba and buy something that hacks that, right? It's a weight. I'm not promoting this. I'm not promoting this. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not promoting this. I'm just saying that it doesn't exist. So anyway, to answer your question, Saks, I think today, or let's just say by the end of this year, an FSD 12 could be operating in a contraint space just like Waymo is. Now, to get it to all regions, back roads, you know, weather, there's a lot of edge cases here. So I think the more important question is when can automated be 5 % or 10 % or 10 % or 10 % and I think that's 5 or 10 years from now.

41:27I do think a couple of people will reach that moment at the same time. Well, let me show you a video. This is one of my co -workers at Kraft took this. This wasn't me, but he was riding in the back of one of these robotaxies. I think this is the service of score in New York. I'm not sure which one. But there is no one in the driver's seat. Yeah, but there's a safety driver watching this remote, I believe, which is what crews was doing. And then when they get to a point where they can't figure it out, the human comes in interview. I don't see a safety driver. Where's the safety driver? No, no, a remote safety driver.

42:03Remote remote. But I have to say, watching this video, that is the coolest this bloody thing. I mean, yeah, this is amazing. I'll be honest. I think it's underrated in terms of of significant. This is going to be. Yeah. I do. Look at this is a Jaguar. Look at that. It's a Jaguar. Yeah. So you're telling me that Tesla is not going to have something at least as good as this. Better soon. Yeah. I think they have it already. If you drive FSD 12, I believe FSD 12 probably could be working today in San Francisco under a controlled grid with the remote drivers like the other people have. If somebody knows about this by the way, can they send us information?

42:42I'm Jason at callicanis .com for life. Just send me a picture. I'll keep it on the DL. I will reveal sources of who these remote drivers are, what their setup looks like. I'm very curious to understand how the remote drivers work for Waymo and Cruz. Can they park the car? They can take the car with a joystick is my understanding and move it around a garbage can in the middle of the street, Jama. And that might be the future of this. Like let's say 10 or 15%. Let's say 10 % of the time it needs an intervention. One an hour, two an hour. Having some remote person in Manila wherever watching 10 videos concurrently and looking for moments to do this.

43:21Encouraging. Cruise workers intervened to help the company's cars every 2 .5 to 5 miles according to a New New York Times article. All right, and just if we score everybody's rating here, I give two points for first place, one point for second place, Optimus got six points, right -hailing four, energy two, tracking zero. They have a focus, there's your scores from the besties. What is WEMO? What is that? Is that like Uber and Google Self -Drivingly Spotted Out? But what is it? Is it like a slide R? $150 ,000 cars. Uh -huh. But is it a compete with crews? Yeah, they're doing what crews did. It was the original self -driving car company that Google set up and then they set up Google X around it and I just explained to me the market guys I'm not sure I get it so there's wait waymo and crew's yeah, there's waymo and crews which are like there's no drivers And then there's uber and lift where there are drivers.

44:13Yeah, that's the basic right does that yeah, that's right Yeah, yeah, okay, and there's also Aurora Does I don't know if Uber has owns a percentage of that or not, but I think you know about Aurora a Aurora was set up by Chris Ermson. He was the original engineering lead on Waymo inside of Google. When they did a management change over, there was a big falling out. A lot of people ended up leaving the Waymo program. Chris left, took a bunch of people with him and started Aurora, which was basically software to do autonomous driving, that they were then going to license into OEMs. So that company got backed by a bunch of VCs and ended up going public via SPAC.

44:50And it's publicly traded today. Oh, hi, see. We were owns 26 % of Aurora. or actually now it's down to 20%. There's also Zooks. They made an investment in it. Yeah. There's also Zooks, which is part of Amazon. So I think there's about 10 people who are gonna get to the finish line at the same time. I think it's gonna be a very crowded space. But again, some of these guys are trying to make software for OEMs, so that the OEMs don't have to build their own autonomous platform. And some of them are trying to make a driving service, like Waymo, and then some of them are, like Tesla has a driving car.

45:24They actually sell cars so different models. Yeah, so they're all gonna convert you. I actually disagree that there's gonna be 20 or 30 of these because I actually think that self -driving is really really hard and We know that Tesla has been spending years Getting to this point and then I Google as well. So I'm not sure why there'd be more than two or three companies that can do Self -driving there are ten or more pursuing it I do agree it goes down to four or five and then it's a question of does any is it a winner take all winner take most and that's what remains to be seen but I mean you need a ton of data to make it work and you need a lot of data around edge cases and so the advantage Tesla has is they actually have real cars on the road they have real cars on the road with real driver minutes and with drivers using the previous version of FSD and making interventions so they're constantly getting better or I think Google seems to be putting up resources into this to get somewhere, but I don't think a lot of companies are gonna figure this out.

46:27I think it's gonna be somewhere between one and three companies to figure this out. Well, Waymo has the most on the road right now, and then cruise a second to them in terms of in market. So the question is, how quickly can Elon get this out? Have you guys, any of you guys taken one of these RoboTaxies? I haven't taken one. When those are like co -workers. Yeah, we got a big, have you taken one? Yeah, they're cool. They just move around you did take one. Yeah, they're okay. They're all over the city You can take them in San Francisco now. Yeah, you have to download the Waymo app Yeah, and there's like a wait list and then you get on it and you know, they're letting people on and then you just get on it and go for right Pretty cool.

47:04By the way, so on tweeted something kind of funny. They said you know, I took Uber Years and years and like a trillion dollars to finally get to profitability and now they're about to get disrupted by robo taxis sis brutal I'm likely. I think it's going to be a very slow rollout, you know, one or two percent a year. But you know, it compounds and so we'll see. All right, everybody, is this a big win for Lena Khan? The FTC just banned non -compeats. Three of three people voted this up of three besties who decided to vote on the docket, federal trade commission this week voted by three to two margin to ban non -compeats to give you a sense of impact here.

47:41estimated of 18 % of the total U .S. workforce are covered in some way by non -competes, 30 million people, the ruling bans agreements entirely. And requires companies to let their staff know that non -competes are not enforceable. There are a few exceptions like existing non -competes for senior level executives. I'm guessing when you buy a company, you can get somebody to non -competes for buying their company. The Democratic FTC Commissioner Rebecca Slaughter called non -competes unfree and unfair. One of the dissenting commissioners for public and Andrew Ferguson said the FTC lacked authority from Congress to make this ruling without specifying whether or not he agreed with it.

48:21Theoretically, the new rule takes effect in 120 days. Wow. We're on a fast timeline after which the vast majority of existing non -competes will be enforceable here in California. They're not enforceable as we know, except on certain circumstances. So this is really an East Coast thing. People in Boston, New York, they're really affected by this. and people will actually enforce these for things as silly as hairdressers. It was a big lawsuit by hairdressers who had to sign like 50 mile non -compete with their beauty salons. The US Chamber of Commerce says it plants a falsehood over the ruling FTC says the rule will create 8 ,500 new startups a year because people can leave and compete.

49:02Freeberg your thoughts. In California, non -competes are not enforceable, but outside of California, they are. They're often used in the agriculture industry, the again puts industry where folks are developing new technology. Mostly it companies based in the Midwest and the East Coast. As you guys know, financial services as well, they're often used that if you work for one company because you have a lot of trade secrets, you can't carry them over to others. In Silicon Valley, we're very used to engineers, product managers, executives, taking all of the knowledge and capabilities that they've developed at one business and leveraging that into a new role, it creates a dynamically competitive marketplace.

49:43It also inflates obviously costs because you're willing to pay more for someone who's worked directly at a competitor and has deep knowledge, but they are bringing IP off and there is a real risk that they take something from your company that you've invested in them to understand and they take it to your competitor. So I see both sides of this. I think non -competes give companies the ability to invest in employees and feel confident that the knowledge and information and support they're providing to those employees doesn't ultimately find its way over to a competitor and it gives you a rationale for paying more to your employees.

50:20It actually inflates salaries. If I'm fearful that someone might leave and take knowledge with them, I'm going to share less with the employee, I'm going to pay them less. So I could see this going both ways. I'm really fairly torn on this issue to be honest. I don't know what the right answer is. Or if there really is a strong kind of ethical case one way or the other, I think that non -competes can both benefit and hurt employees and benefit and hurt companies. Yes, there are unintended consequences. Chimop, where do you stand on this? Is this a huge win for Lena Con, neutral or a loss. I don't see non -compete having any value in any market except East Coast financial markets.

51:02I've heard of folks getting something called beach leave, typically in finance. These are Wall Street jobs, hedge fund jobs. So I know it exists there. What does it mean, beach leave? Like if you leave hedge fund A and you're going to go to hedge fund B, they make you sit on ice for six months or nine months, garden leave, I think maybe they call it. And the whole idea is that you don't take any active market thoughts to your next job. For what Freeberg said, I just think the whole thing doesn't make much sense. Intellectual property is the least valuable it's ever been. More people develop things now via trade secret than patents.

51:45The whole patent system has become a little bit of a game. We just talked about open source rent. They have less and less value. So innovation is happening in plain sight. And so I don't think companies are actually thinking about this issue at all anymore. They're paying people because they need to pay more to get the best and brightest. So I think if you're hoping to rely on one of these agreements, if you're an employer, I think that you should just forget about them and just hire the best people, pay them the best and if they suck fire them. Do you ever see that movie Spanish prisoner, starring Steve Martin?

52:23Is there a scene that's great film? God, why so? Steve Martin plays the con man that goes to this guy and the guy is like a chemical engineer. Campbell Scott is the guy's name that I actor. And he has like a process for making a chemical and it's worth so much money. And the whole movie is Steve Martin conning him into telling him the chemical process and eventually he took it, he was gonna give him all this money, hire him, and then he disappeared once he got the knowledge and that was the end of it. It's a great, great film. Shout out David Mammon. David Mammon, exactly. Fantastic. But I think there's a lot of investment that goes into intellectual property businesses that include things like chemical engineering, obviously financial services, trading companies, Algos, and hedge funds, and a lot in software that if you can access that intellectual property without stealing it, but actually hiring an employee that has it in their head, you gain quite a lot.

53:21But you can do that now. I don't see it actually doing anything bad. So I have had a lot of folks that I know in other industries outside of tech or software where California non -compete are not enforceable that aren't allowed to go work in a competitor for one year, two years, three years. No, no, no. I'm not disputing that it doesn't exist. I'm saying where do you see it actually having negative repercussions in California? The point of the fact that it doesn't exist here is also seemingly that it doesn't mean anything. The rate of change here is crazy. The rate at which software changes, I think, is quite distinct from the rate at which, for example, a chemical engineering process might change.

53:57Where you learn that process, you spend $200 million building a system, and then that employee can go and tell it to someone else and suddenly changes everything about that other business. So I don't know, I feel like there's something about California software that gives us this point of view that maybe it doesn't matter, but another industry is it might. In that example, you'd still need to have come up with hundreds of millions of cat -backs to implement it. Whatever you know. So, SACs and adults, I just don't think these are things mean anything. Do you care about non -compete SACs? I think one of the reasons why the tech industry moves so fast and it innovates so well is because of the happy coincidence that California doesn't allow non -compete.

54:33and so the industry's never had them. And as a result of that, like you're saying, the talent just flows freely to wherever the opportunity is. And you have this dynamic in tech where the VCs and the talent all swarm the biggest and best opportunities and the newest platforms in a completely decentralized way. And there's little or no friction in doing that. If you were to impose non -compete on all of the talent, There's going to be enormous delays and friction in them moving around to pursue opportunities. And so I think it's been very beneficial to the industry as a whole that we don't have that.

55:12Now, it's hard for me to speak to other industries, but I think that if you're looking to maximize the pace of innovation, you wouldn't have these employee non -copy. So on that level, I kind of agree with what Lena Khan's done. That being said, I do think the Republicans' point was well taken in the sense that this This was very aggressive rulemaking. I mean, I think you could legitimately argue that a change this big should be made by Congress, but I don't think this is probably a positive change. I think this is great when we're in a cons doing, and this is two for two. I think our Apple action was great.

55:48I think this is great. I'd love to have her at the summit. That would be an amazing fireside chat, so if anybody knows her, invite her to the summit. There really is three way. Oh, and by the way, Chimoff media business on these coast also does this and that's why friend of the pod took a call son and Don Lemon both of them started shows on the internet Not other networks because they have very tight non -competes and it's Pay to play they got paid out their full contracts according to reports And so there is something I think in a middle ground here Chimoff where if you do want somebody to not compete, you got to pay to play.

56:27In other words, they're getting paid. But this is what I'm saying. It tends to be examples, Jason, over and over of markets that don't really matter that much relying on these things and markets that are dynamic and value and humanity just moving past them. So it probably makes sense for all of us to just go move past them. Absolutely. 100 % is going to be great for the economy. Sacure, we're going to say something. Well, just because these agreements are no longer enforceable doesn't mean that businesses don't have modes. It just means you have to look in other places. I mean, you have to find network effects.

56:59You have to find data scale effects. There's other ways of building a mode. Besides just trade secrets or, you know, patents is another category where, you know, the tech industry patents have never really mattered that much. And the only people who are seeking to litigate patents are basically patent trolls. losers. So you want to find real durable notes, not these like legal arrangements that try to protect your business through you know these types of contracts. That's really well said. That's exactly what I was trying to say. That's well said. Well said. Team, product, brand. These are the ways to build a great business.

57:37Not legal. And not the way one of the reasons why the industry moves so fast is because best practices get shared very quickly. And one of the ways that happens is that everybody is moving around to different companies. I mean, we'll see every such a good point. It's one or two years. 18 to 36 months. Right. And you don't have to worry that if you've got some knowledge in your head that you don't have to worry that if you use it, some new company, you're going to violate some trade secret. But the one thing everyone knows not to do is take anything with them in terms of, you know, not everybody.

58:11Not out in the Dowski, was that his name? Lou and Delis. That's why it's really straight. What an idiot. Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, sometimes people do break the rules. I mean, the rule is you don't take any work product with you. You don't take any documents. No, thumb drives, d****. Don't bring your old computer to the new job. Don't bring any old code. No, bops. And there are people who violate those rules and that is definitely breaking the rules. But you're allowed to take with you anything in your head. And it is one of the ways that best practices sort of become more common. You guys know the story, right?

58:45Like Steve Chen before he started YouTube was an engineer at Facebook and there was like at one point, I remember being in some meeting where I was like, oh, I think we found an early version of the YouTube code on an old laptop. That was a Facebook laptop that's even so I remember like the GC was like, I think we technically on YouTube. That's a good, good job. I think we on YouTube. Could you imagine if Facebook sued Google to get YouTube speaking of startups. This is critically important for founders listening. If you're working at a company, the best practice is if you're going to do a side hustle is to get permission and a waiver from your boss that you're working on that and get a clean machine and you got to go on a clean machine.

59:31Your machine is being on. Cannot use your work computer. your work machine. I'm telling you right now is being monitored every step of the way I had. It's not just monitoring. It's monitoring. It's about it. It's their property. Absolutely. And if you type on it, especially in this work from home, era, and you know, anyway, I had a situation, I wouldn't say at which company, where a sales executive left the company, went into the CRM system, downloaded it, and it was so dumb. He had written plans for his next employer on his computer and then in his corporate email emailed the database And his plans for the new employer to his Yahoo or out of email Oh my god.

1:00:19They busted him of course. They dropped a legal letter on him They put a legal letter on the person who's hiring him the person who's already Resinced the offer obviously they don't want some toxic nonsense and Yeah, the person you know, I have no idea what happened You know, there's that very famous email that Steve Jobs sent to Bruce Chisholm, which goes something along the lines of dear Bruce, it's come to my attention. That Apple never recruits from Adobe, but it seems that Adobe is actively recruiting Apple employees. One of our practices have to change. That's the job. So, sir. So, sir, please let me know who or something like that.

1:00:57It's just a phenomenal email. Yeah, and they this actually resulted in a bunch of legal action, a settlement because I think Eric Schmidt and Steve Jobs curriculum if I'm wrong producers or there was something between Google and Apple where they agreed and I think Sergei or somebody was yeah, Sergei got in on this is I don't know if this is legal but they didn't want to piss Steve off because I'm not the kind of guy you want to piss off because he can execute. And Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple at the time. There's a very famous picture of them at the Palo, the the Sand Hill Road or Stanford Mall having coffee and Steve is lit.

1:01:37He's not happy about this. And I think they agreed to not poach a certain level or something like that. Oh, there's the famous picture where they were breaking bread and then Eric Schmidt that did Android. Steve felt very betrayed by this and Eric Schmidt left the board of Apple shortly thereafter because Steve reportedly felt like he was double crossed. But you know all that is speculation. So check your own facts. And do you have any other details on that freeberg? Do you remember that case? It was after your time, right? I'll tell you a funny story. We had a meeting with the exact team from Apple when I was at Google and Marissa Mayer and Sergey and myself and one other person went to the meeting.

1:02:23And Marissa's idea was why don't we pitch Apple that we could put a cache of the internet in 200 megabytes, like the most important 200 megabytes of the internet, cache it and put it on the iPod. So you could access the internet on the iPod. Search the web. Yeah. So basically search, search 8 cache version of the web. And that was the pitch. and they kind of were like radio silent, they didn't respond to the pitch, and then they kind of blank -faced stared at us. Two years later, the iPhone came out. I have three amazing Steve Jobs stories. I'll tell you one of them right now. I was the co -founder of a website called Engaget, which was a large blog in the world.

1:02:59We wanted to put it on the collection of this blogs to AOL. I was at a conference, Steve Jobs was there. He sees my badge, says Engaget. He goes, oh, Jason, Engaget, my favorite Tech blog in the world, I read it every day, yada yada. And I said, oh, that's great. And you know, did it done? And I said, hey, can I ask you a question? I said, yeah, sure, anything. And we're out there in a beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean. And I said, you know, Steve, I have the iPod to pull that on my pocket. And it had a color screen. And I said to him, I said, you know, it seems to me that I could download short video clips like of the ship hell show.

1:03:35And I used that as an example. And they could sell them to me like you're selling and be the reason. You could just buy like a shipell show issue episode, pretty obvious idea. And then I could play it when I'm on the subway or something or got some downtime in a cafe. I could watch a shipell show clips. Could you make a video version of this? Since it's already got the you know storage in the screen. You're gonna look at me, said Jason, do you want to watch a thumbnail size video? I said, yeah, totally fine. He said, all of our research says nobody wants to watch a tiny video like that. It's the worst idea ever.

1:04:11And I had this moment of like self -doubt because he had that reality distortion field. I go back, I tell my guys what he said and hey, should we write a story about it? And 30 days later, he releases the video and the ability to watch videos on it. He had the greatest poker face ever. It was just an incredible moment. Man, I really missed that guy. What a incredible incredible. Are we doing a walk down memory lane of our Steve Jobs stories? Do you have one? I have to give us one. Come on. These are great. People loved by the way. The segment when I worked at Win Amp, my boss, when it was merged into AOL to create AOL music was this guy Kevin Conroy great guy.

1:04:57I remember Kevin. And Kevin basically got us runway to launch a 99 cent music download store. And we were able to use AOL's cards on file. So there was like 25 or 30 million credit cards. And we were able to use Warner Brothers music library because AOL had merged with Time Warner. And so we launched this 99 cent music store and it performed phenomenally. And I went and I did demos for Walt Mossberg, Takerra. I went to Apple. I showed James Higgah, Eddie Cues, D Jobs, all these guys. And AOL just couldn't do anything with the data. We kept pushing, Kevin kept pushing, but they were just so tied up in their own political nonsense.

1:05:48since they wouldn't greenlight it becoming more than a beta. And then nine months later, the 99 said, download store launched on iTunes. And I was just like, oh my God, this is execution. And they had all the labels. And it was a thousand times better experience than we created, but it was the first time where I stumbled into something relatively accidentally and just got frankly owned by an organization that was just a thousand times better. Sac, you ever meet Steve Jobs in person? No, free bird. Yeah, I met him at Macworld in 2003. He was walking the floor. It was at Moscone. I remember it because I've been a Mac user since 1984.

1:06:32First Mac original. I still have it in my office. Die hard, die hard Mac fan. I read every edition of Macworld, Mac user, Macweek. And so to meet him on the floor walking around, I was just like a 22 year old kid. I was freaking out. It was awesome. Only time I met him. He was the greatest. He was the absolute greatest. I have one other story, but I'm not going to share it. You know what segment people love last week? I interviewed with him for a job. What? Oh, come on. You cannot tell that story. When I left Facebook. People love this story last week when we did our childhood businesses. Oh, I want to have a story in some of them.

1:07:08Come on, Chema. You give us one more. I'll give you one that's recorded on video. It's like so littered with my failures and my insecurities. But okay, that's what we want to hear. Yeah, that's what we want to hear. And then show Dan successful, be self deprecated. Share with your brothers. There was basically somebody at a well -known recruiting firm who pinged me and said, hey, there could be a consult. This is right when I was leaving Facebook. And I had a pretty large project that never saw the light of day, which was his Facebook phone, although people in the ecosystem knew that we were working on it.

1:07:39So, you know, Samsung and Intel were our partners and AT &T and all this stuff. Anyways, long story short, there was a rumor that they wanted to consolidate iPhone into one business unit, right? And at the time, it was kind of like very vulcanized or whatever. And I got approached by recruiters saying they're thinking of creating a role which is kind of like head of iPhone. And at that point, I was like, this isn't 2011. And I was adamant that I would never work for anybody until I heard it was Steve Jobs and I was like, I will do whatever he says. Whatever. John. You're ready to, man. I, dude, I would have driven his car.

1:08:19I would have just, I would have driven my car. I would be driving Miss Daisy. Oh Steve Jobs, you're my best friend. And I went through a couple of interviews. I'm not gonna get into those details. And at the end of it, it was like, well, he's not gonna become, he's not gonna be the CEO. You know, he's gonna become executive chairman. And so you'll be reporting to Tim Cook, and that's where that process died. They said I wasn't a good cultural fit for Apple in the new era. Now and then it turned out what happened. Yeah, you would not have forced all laughter. I was not a good culture. I would not have been a good culture fit for that.

1:08:54No, he wanted radicals and Tim Cook wanted optimizers. Yes. So then I went and I started social capital, but that was my only job interview that I had when I was leaving Facebook and it was for me, I had the same reaction as Freeberg. I was like a kid meeting his, I don't even wanna call it idle. Like I think I was like a believer meeting Jesus. That's how it felt. I will save my, just to get this, we gotta get through two more stories in the docket and I'm gonna leave my other Steve Jobs stories which were another time, we got time. It's time of that famous clip of you asking in that questionnaire you basically was looking at you.

1:09:36Like, that's a very famous one because that, you really got the better of who I thought, which is pretty good here. All right. Well, you help companies like ours sell podcasts, be an audible. So if we wanted to sell podcasts through your service, would you help us do the fulfillment? We're planning on having all the podcasts be free at first, but zing me an email with what you've got in mind, and we're open anything. Same email I always send it to you. Yep. Okay, you got it. So strong. I mean, I gotta give it to you, Jake. All you have, balls. I mean, man. The truth is, I traded emails with Steve many times.

1:10:11He was with the press. He was full contact as you know. All right, it's time. Full contact. It's time for SACS Red Meat and we've got a double serving for SACS SACS stands are gonna be really happy right now. Now Tiktok's divester ban bill has been signed into law. Senate passed the bill 79 to 18. We've talked about this here over and over and over again. President signed it with the things on the Fesh rack divest or shut down. Tiktok bill was packaged bundled with $95 billion in foreign aid. 61 billion for the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, 26 .4 billion for Israel and humanitarian humanitarian aid for civilians in Gaza and about 8 billion for the Indo -Pacific region, aka Taiwan.

1:11:00House added a provision to the bill that required the President to seek a $10 billion repayment from Ukraine's government. Finally, they're talking about the leaseback. We'll see if that ever happens. I'm curious what's next things there. Last year, CNBC reported that bytdance was buying back 5 billion worth of stock. and early Thursday morning, it was reported that bytons is exploring selling a majority stake in TikTok's US business. Looks like Gun to the Head is working to a non -tech company without the algorithm. In other words, maybe they sell it to a Walmart, somebody who they don't consider super competitive.

1:11:35I'm not sure who the non -tech company is here. Could be Disney would come to mine as well. And remember Disney did look at buying Twitter, but they didn't want the toxicity of an open platform. TikTok is obviously heavily scrubbed of anything that is aggressive. You can't show a movie clip with somebody getting attacked violently. It's very PG their chain. But this is the key part, sex, no algorithm in the package deal. Your thoughts on this and you can take it either way you like because I know your fans want to hear about everything. Do you want to talk the budget bundling or the TikTok ban which and the divestiture which seems to be happening.

1:12:14Well, the overall theme is just that the national security state got everything I wanted. It got a hundred billion for to support forever wars. It got a TikTok ban and this divestiture, things of total fig leaf because it's not clear that China is going to allow TikTok to divest because it would set a horrible precedent where the US could just pass a law and then essentially steal the value of a Chinese company. So I don't think they're going to be able to die fast. I think they're just going to get shut down. So the security state's getting its wish there. And then another bill that you didn't mention, which they just passed, is they approved the warrantless spying on Americans.

1:12:51So the federal government can outspire on you and your communications without even getting a warrant. Ridiculous. So disgusting. The not security state just seems to get whatever it wants. And there was large bipartisan majorities fall of this. And the way they do it is they conjure all these fears to try and fear us into, well, if we don't agree to warrantless spying, then you could get a terrorist attack. Well, when has a warrant requirement ever gotten in the way of actually doing what we need to do to stop terrorism never? But that fear was enough to get Congress to authorize that legislation.

1:13:31They're keeping us involved in this forever war in Ukraine by this fear that Putin is somehow going to conquer all of Europe, which I think is total threat inflation. And this TikTok fear that somehow what videos we like is like precious data that's being shared with the CCP. Look, I'm willing to believe it's possible, but they never proved that. So they're just - Oh, no, they proved that data. It's been proved that they - You have not inspected us. We debated this. We debated this. You should one article from the New York Times. about how, yeah, that's not proof, J .Kell. Those were two rogue employees who shared some data with your tax reporters.

1:14:10I spoke to multiple TikTok employees myself personally, and they told me that the Chinese representatives are all over the company and inside of it. Freeberg, you're adults? What was the judicial process or legislative process to prove that? They have hearings, they prove that? I understand that. You know, you're here say and your view is good enough to ban it, but I'd like to see some blue. My position on banning, thanks for asking, is based on reciprocity and the potential damage it could do and based on how influential and powerful the product is and how they could change sentiment and censorship.

1:14:45And the Chinese government is fantastic. We're doing massive censorship. Handling the trade bill because what we've authorized here is not a TikTok ban. It is a sweeping new federal power to ban foreign adversary -controlled applications. That's the new category. So we have a new category of foreign controlled apps, whatever that means, and the government can now use it to shut down apps they don't like. And I guarantee you, I think here's where this goes next. I think Telegram is next on the hit list. You have a Russian founder, okay. Okay, you have rumors for years, I'd say, I'm proven that somehow telegrams been back doored by the Russian government, you know, you've all heard those rumors.

1:15:32It's kind of like the... Where is the base though, isn't he out of there? Is he monoco or something? He doesn't live there? He doesn't do that. He doesn't do that. Yeah. Here's what you're going to see. You're going to see, at some point, you'll see a media campaign that will be promoting the idea that Telegram is used by Hamas, by terrorists, by groups that the US doesn't like, and that it's backdoored by Russia, and that it's got some shady investors on its cap table. And no politician's going to want to stand up and defend Telegram. And all the industry money that flows into Washington will be promoting this idea that we have to ban it because think about the market share gains that all of Telegram's competitors will make.

1:16:16I know the ones wired into DC. So this is a foregone conclusion. But you also said on Twitter you thought this would come to X and to rumble. You actually think they'll take this to American companies? I think that that seems like a stretch. Not really. I think that the first step is you go get telegram because that's easy. You know, this guy is an agent of Putin obviously and anyone who says differently is themselves an agent of the crime. That's how this rhetoric works. So first though, the WAC Telegram, and by the way, we all know the companies are going to benefit enormously by sloping up that market share.

1:16:51And then if Biden wins a second term, they will eventually set their gun sites on X. But look, that's a battle because in X, you have a billionaire who has resources who's willing to stand on his hind legs and fight. Yeah. And so they're not going to do that before the election. But look, if we continue to see more weaponization and more censorship, I believe that eventually what they will do is try and push Elon to divest X. And look, all they gotta do, listen, Jake, this act empowers the attorney general to open an investigation. So I think that in a second Biden term, they will open an investigation and to start ratcheting up the pressure on Elon to get rid of X because that's clearly what they want.

1:17:35Yeah, and the TikTok guy's bought a Trump already, so he's gonna fight for it. Freeberg, you're nuts. I don't agree that the Chinese government will shut it down. I certainly don't have any insight into what the Chinese government is discussing or thinking about doing, but there's a lot of money to be made here. So if I'm bite dance, I'm very likely to get a higher a bunch of bankers, run an auction process and sell this thing and I have a year to do it. This is a business that did 14 billion in revenue last year, according to a published report. 170 million Americans are active users of TikTok.

1:18:14A revenue grew 40 % plus last year. So I don't know how they would just say, hey, let's write this thing off and shut it down when we could probably generate. I'm basing that statement on published reports that China has said they're opposed to the for sale of TikTok in the US. And I agree with you that it might change. But I think about it. You're the Chinese government. You're adamantly opposed to this. You don't like the precedent. And you don't really care about tech entrepreneurs getting rich. I mean, let's just say the founder CEO of TikTok lives in Singapore. Right. So why would they give a sh**?

1:18:53But now let's assume that they let it go through. Think about the implications. Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs get hired to run a joint process to auction this thing off, right? They're going to run this process for a period of months. There's only a certain number of folks that could actually make a bid to buy this thing. Maybe some of the big guys in private equity silver like and others try and pull some capital together to buy it, but I think it's more likely a big company tries to buy it. CIFIUS and antitrust will probably not be as relevant here as it normally would be. Certainly CIFIUS wouldn't be because it's being completely divested.

1:19:27anti -trust, there's a real question on whether they're going to be given some leeway. But even if anti -trust does apply, who could buy TikTok in the US? There's only a handful of companies that could or would. Oracle, maybe Microsoft? They said it's not a tech, is the report. That is not a what? Not a tech company. So that would be Walmart, Disney, you start to get to over. Maybe a media company, right? Yeah, absolutely. I do I do think that there's a really interesting Netflix Maybe Netflix. So I think that there's a really interesting rewrite of the landscape a little bit here where some of the traditional big tech companies met a Google have really had total control over the consumer media consumption on the internet that there's gonna be a real difference here that might be triggered in and how the industry kind of is sorted based on the TikTok auction if it does happen.

1:20:25And I think it's probably, look, we can argue all day about what the Chinese are going to do. But if it does go through, there's next story you're going to see in the Wall Street Journal is how much money the bankers are going to make on fees running the auction here. And then the next story you'll see after that is going to be about how the tech and media landscape had been re -shelflled and rewritten by the TikTok deal. Tramoth, Paul, I have Patia, our Chairman, dictator. Can't wait to see you at poker tonight. What are your thoughts on this if any? I think the thing to keep in mind is that the reason why the government is banning TikTok and I'm totally speculating and guessing has nothing to do with these silly little videos.

1:21:00But it is that the overwhelming majority of the people that download TikTok keep the microphone on and it is an ambient passive surveillance device. And I think to the extent that a foreign government has access to whatever you hear ambientally and randomly while the app is not even being used is the real problem here. And so I think that that's effectively what this is is the listening device into enough Americans. And I think that that's pretty scary to folks. The second thing is with respect to the actual product itself, in the absence of that algorithm, which I think is just incredible, has somebody who is a voracious user of that app until I deleted it, I don't think the product is much of anything.

1:21:45It's probably no better or no worse than shorts or reels or some of these other alternatives. So I don't see the economic justification for anybody who already has one of these assets to buy these things because the content is roughly the same now. It is the thing that makes that app as the algorithm. But the videos are everywhere. They're on YouTube. They're on Instagram. They're everywhere. So I don't see why anybody would pay a lot of money for this, especially in the absence of a the algorithm. This is my honest love. What do you think, Jacob? I think this is a security risk. I've made that clear here before.

1:22:22And I don't think we would ever allow Iran, North Korea, Russia to run any of these companies inside of America, nor would they allow us to run Facebook, X, et cetera, in their countries. So I think reciprocity is the key, but I am running a little test right now. I posted this video to my TikTok today, and it's under review. They won't let it publish and the video is very simple. It quotes a study from Reuters. You don't have to play it I'll explain what I said in it But I just took a video of the Reuters study what this Reuters study shows you pull up the chart there Nick is that in this record study the CCP is censoring sensitive topics related to China and so if you want to understand why the CEO I think you may have worked with before or Chimoff at Facebook.

1:23:13The CEO is saying it's a ban, when in fact it's a divestiture, if you wanna understand why they care about this, it's because they want to be able to influence things in America, they wanna have data on Americans, it's spyware, that's my position. And it's the most censored platform, I think, in America, which I know you feel passionately about SACS. So I did this video and just like COVID -19, was blocked on X here in America in the US. If you talked about Wuhan, if you talked about any of these topics, our government banned it. Well, if you talk about Hong Kong, if you talk about Uyghurs, if you talk about Tiananmen Square, your video will not be posted.

1:23:58In fact, my video is held right now. So if you're hearing my voice right now, I'm doing a little experiment. I want everybody to post that chart and just read the Wikipedia page, maybe talk about Tankman, talk about the Hong Kong riots, and then use the hashtag, Don't Band TikTok, as a little bit of a cheeky way for us all to track each others. And I want to see if 100 or 1000 oil -in -fans post one of these, if they all get banned or if we can see any of them, so we can do a live censorship test here in America, our Americans are allowed to talk about Tiananmen Square, the Hong Kong riots, Weegers, or any of those things.

1:24:35and you can also, if you want, have mentioned me. I'm at Jessica Alcana, Sunday. Can I see that's my position on it? I wanna see this thing banned immediately or divest. I would prefer to be divested. One is I think people love it. One quick thing, I think what SAC said is really interesting about them then going after Telegram. The big issue that I think Telegram has always had is that it is encrypted, it, but it has its own form of encryption that they rolled themselves, right? Like typically I think what's happened. A lot of these other folks just use pretty standard signal. I think as well use SH 256 encryption, which is like pretty standard, but there is always a fear that the US government actually can unencrypt that and has some kind of a backdoor.

1:25:22That was always the fear of that SH 256. And so Pavledura and his team basically rolled his own, which is also 26 bit symmetric encryption, but different standard altogether. And what people would say is, hold on, he has the back door to Sachsis Point. So that was always the claim, counter claim between these things of why telegram was always painted in more of a sketchy corner. I'm not saying that it's true. And I think that if they go after it, I think it's because this underlying encryption model is something that we can't get access to. And so they'd rather just eliminate it to your to Sachsis Point.

1:25:56All right. I think Telegram can stick its head between his legs and his ass goodbye because they're next on the head list. All right, we're going to see. What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge? The industrial estate has has used fears like the one that Jake help explained to get a new power and it's not a power to ban TikTok. It's a power to ban any foreign controlled app. So goodbye Telegram. What do you think of my don't ban TikTok challenge sex? the censorship challenge. Yeah, I mean fine, whatever. Wow, you're so passionate about censorship. It's over, it's over. Yeah. Look, the Nash security state gets whatever it wants.

1:26:36It's pretty clear. Not if we stay vigilant. I mean, if we keep talking about this. Wow, and this warrantless spying thing happened. I mean, look, I think the warrantless spying is actually the worst in the tech talk band. Me too. A hundred times. How are they not required to go to court? No, they're not. They're so easy by the way. Have we eliminated the physical courts entirely? We don't need those anymore either. They can just do whatever they want. Well, I think we saw a Pfizer, but you don't have to go to the courts, you gotta warrant. They can just do whatever they want. We need to, let's take a deep dive on that in a future episode, because we're running out of time.

1:27:05We really need more story to get to. Yeah, let's, let's, let's deep dive it. You know what's in this? There's a lot of topics people want us to talk about. And this one, I think people are talking about a whole bunch. It's kind of breaking. I haven't, couldn't find a Wall Street Journal or a Washington Post covering this, but a lot of people were talking about our next Biden's 2025 budget includes some serious capital gains hikes. There are three proposals in the 2025 budget. We'll put up the links in the show notes to increase cap gains rates as opposed to income cap gains. If all three are past big if it would more than double the long -term capital gains tax to almost 45 percent.

1:27:45Important to note this only covers those making one million or more a year, which is like, you know, less than 1 % of the country, way less. And so this is definitely attacks the rich idea here. Currently, the highest long -term capital gains rate is 20%, which is really about 24 % of year and more than 200k per year, because you have to pay an extra small tax. If these proposals become law, big if it would create the highest capital gains rate in 100 years, here's the chart. This comes from Americans for tax reform, which was done by a Reagan era, an NGO, I think, that was formed by a former Reagan administration.

1:28:24They basically make politicians sign that they would increase taxes. The budget also proposes a 25 % unrealized capgain tax. This would be a tax on total income, including unrealized capgains for all taxpayers worth over 100 million. Okay, sacks. I know this is your red meat. There's a lot of pieces here, but gosh, this is crushing for those folks who want to vote for Biden, but are moderates because this is like the number one thing you can do to stop innovation and investment in the country which we desperately need. This is a head scratcher. Biden is playing a game of chicken with the tech industry and with, I'd say, suburban voters in general.

1:29:00I mean, is this what you want? At some point you're going to have to say that this is not okay. I mean, first of all, you've got this 25 % unrealized gains tax, which is a wealth tax. If you're somebody who's created a small business or a family farm or you're a tech founder, if you get to qualify for the amount, then you've got to pay 25%. And in order to raise the money for that 25%, you're going to get taxed on, let's say you try to sell 25 % of the company, you're now going to get taxed 45 % of that plus 13 .3 % California. So really, you're gonna have to sell more like 40 % of the company just to pay off this unrealized gains tax.

1:29:44And by the way, you haven't made a dime yet. You haven't put a dollar in your bank account. And that's your one confiscation. That's your one. What happens the following year? This is ridiculous. The same. Same. This is ridiculous. These things will never pass on me. Let me tell you, I mean, so this is in Biden's budget for next year and this idea, this is not the first time we've seen this. It was in his original buildback better proposal and the only reason that failed is because mansion and cinema voted against it. So mansion and cinema are not going to be in the Senate next year. Okay, they're not running for reelection.

1:30:18So if the Democrats have the trifecta, if Biden wins reelection and holds on to the Senate and House, but without mansion and cinema, I think you have to price in the strong possibility that this passes. I don't think you can just shrug it off. FreeBreg your thoughts? What we're talking about it here. We're not shriking it off. This is like five -along fire here on X. Everybody's talking about it. FreeBreg your thoughts. There was a poll published yesterday. Bloomberg News morning consult surveyed 4 ,900 registered voters in seven swing states. And the poll showed that 77 % of registered voters in those states support, basically, an asset tax on ultra high net worth people, people worth over $100 million to keep social security intact.

1:31:10So, I think that's a strong indication of where things are headed generally. We can debate the tactics and the nuance of this election cycle, but as we all have talked about and know, social security becomes de facto bankrupt by 2033, perhaps earlier. So we have a few years to figure out whether we cut social security benefits in this country or find alternative ways to fund it. And it's pretty evident from this poll that Americans are not in support of raising the minimum age from 67 to 69, which was one of the questions in here. Only 25 % of Americans support raising the minimum age for our social security from 67 to 69.

1:31:53Meanwhile, 77 % strongly support attacks on ultra -high net worth to fund the gap of the funding need. That's a loaded question because you're basically positioning this tax, which is really complicated in the details and the person getting asked the question doesn't understand it, compared to the most popular program that the federal government has, which is so security. So obviously it's going to pull that way. I mean, look, you can ask a question in a way on a poll to get whatever answer you want to get to. I can basically prove to you that a majority of the American public is either for Ukraine funding or against Ukraine funding depending on how you ask the question.

1:32:38And look, yeah, obviously taxing people with $100 million of paper wealth is going to be more popular than sacrificing your social security. obviously, but that doesn't mean that this is a good proposal economically at all. No, it doesn't, and I don't think that that's what really matters. I think most folks are voting for themselves. Their particular needs and the majority of people need more support. Does this is, they're... This is not even going to say social security. I mean, you know, what is this tax going to get us? It's going to destroy the startup ecosystem. It's not going to balance the budget.

1:33:13We're still spending way too much for that. It doesn't pay down the debt. It doesn't save Social Security. It's just more and more taxes. I think that's the inevitable trend. I'm just saying, I don't know how it's going to manifest, but I think it's inevitable that we're going to raise federal revenue through some form of taxation that's going to feel deeply uncomfortable and inappropriate and it's going to have negative economic consequences. And this is where the economic spiraling... But the way it has talked about... But, Volga actually had a brilliant blog post about this called, all it takes is all you got.

1:33:49And what he pointed out is he was talking about the federal governments run away deficits and debt and borrowing. And somebody responded to him with this chart that shows assets versus liabilities. This guy, Brent, who I guess is a foil on extra biology sometimes, said, oops, you only showed one side of the balance sheet, common mistake though, basically saying that biology didn't know what he was talking about because biology was only showing the red, which is the government liabilities, the government debt. And he showed that, well, no, you have to include all the green bars, but what are the green bars?

1:34:25Those are private assets. And biology pointed out that, no, actually you're proving my point because people like you just see all of the private assets of citizens of the United States as belonging to the government. Yeah. And if you actually extend the red bars to the present value of all the long -term liabilities that this government has, it's more like 175 billion. So, you know, people like this see the 160 trillion of private wealth as being on the balance sheet of the federal government and being used to offset the 175 trillion of liabilities. In other words, all it takes is all you got.

1:35:09That's the trajectory we're on. Is we have a one, we have, you're for all one K is the government. And we're gonna see. They're gonna go after your, they're gonna absolutely go after your retirement accounts because that's the only way they're gonna pay off these liabilities. It's gross. Unless you're spending, cut spending. Well, there's another great tweet by a guy who said, laptop mercenary, I don't know this account, But he says something funny. He said imagine being a California higher earner options either vote for your own financial liquidation or vote for the orange man. Checkmate, dude.

1:35:40Checkmate. Guys got to put on the red mega hat. It's happening. Here's the, I mean, I read that you're you're all in. You don't have to wear the like you don't have to wear the red mega hat. When you go into that polling booth, nobody knows the button you're pushing. Yeah. Okay. I mean, these are the two worst candidates in the history. Jason Biden has had, Biden has had four years to prove that he's a moderate. He's had four years to prove that he represents the normalcy that he promised to us when he first got elected. That's under for that. I mean, how much more does it take for you to understand that his policy is radical?

1:36:20Yeah, I mean, he combines the foreign policy of Dick Cheney with the economic policy of Elizabeth Warren. How much more does it take? Are you going to vote for your own financial liquidation? Because that's what we're talking about. It's the worst two candidates and I think I'm voting for the third. Ooh, an RFK endorsement. Wow, I didn't see that. I think I just have to put in the protest vote of RFK or a lot of RFK. I think he's a great vote for Democrats. I mean, crazy. I think maybe I go after the rock. But yeah, congratulations on Biden on making this easy for Trump With his build back broke plan so dumb All right everybody this is the world's greatest podcast by the way Jason if you do decide in the end to vote for Biden I'll send you some luxury tents that you and your kids could sleep in You can tell them stories about how you voted for him It's so rude.

1:37:15I mean the worst two candidates of our lifetime Jake Al, here are your choices. Okay. You can vote for Trump or you can give up this the ski lodge. What's it going to be? I mean, at this point, I think I'm RFK all the way. I think I got to go for just try to support independence. I just think we got to balance the budget shot out David Friedberg for the rainman himself, David Sacks. Yeah. David Friedberg, the Sultan of science. We didn't get to science corner of this week. We're going to start with it next week. and the chairman dictator, Chimoff Polly Hoppatiya. I am world's greatest moderator of the number one podcast in the world.

1:37:56I'm manifesting. Can we get the Spielberg? I'm manifesting, tracking here and take us out Spielberg, young Spielberg, baby. Coming at you. Zee, what's your buddy? Love you boys. Bye -bye. Welcome everybody to episode 175. That's right. It's episode 1775 by the way, the podcast. The largest emulsimate project in the world. The official fish episode was set to be on the other podcast right now. And...uh, that's something I don't know about this much. It's the largest emulsimate podcast in the world. I'm Madifesting.

1:38:33I'm Madifesting.

1:38:58I'm gonna get it, get it, get it, it's not a matter of time. is used for line. It's just like, you know, the world greatest poker player. And just so you know tonight is a murder or a row and hellneuth is flying back. You saw the line. And now the plugs follow the show at x .com slash the all in pod. Our TikTok is at all underscore in underscore talk. Our Instagram is the all in pod. And on LinkedIn search for the all in pod cast. The show is produced by producer Nick Callicanis and our CEO is John Hale. You can find Shamaat at x .com slash Shamaat and you can sign up for his weekly email. What I read this week at Shamaat .subs .com sign up for a developer account at console .rock .com and follow Sandeep Madra x .com slash Sandeep.

1:39:56You can follow David Sacks at x .com slash David Sacks recently spoke at the American In the moment conference, it's his pin tweet on his x .com profile. Follow David Friedberg, the Sultan of science at x .com slash Friedberg. O 'Holo is hiring and David Friedberg is the CEO. You can click on the careers page at hohojoenetics .com. We're hiring a full time researcher here. We need somebody who can do data research for us. We're looking for somebody to make charts and do surveys and research, deep research. If you'd like to apply, go to allinpodcast .co slash researcher allinpodcast .co slash researcher to apply.

1:40:37The summit is taking place in September in Los Angeles again at UCLA summit .allinpodcast .co. I'm Jason Calacanis, you can follow me on x .com slash Jason or search for this week and startups on YouTube and follow my other podcast. I'm hosting my liquidity conference again in Napa on June 2nd to the fifth only LPs and GPS come to this event 125 people every year this year speakers include Ibrahim Ajami from Mubadala David Freerberg, Chimalpala, Hapatia Gavin Baker Jordan Stein from Crescent Partners Monique Woodard from Cake Ventures. I'm an LP My guy Pejman from Para Ventures and Phil Dullich my Bestie liquidity pod calm slash summit to apply For one of the few remaining tickets, we'll see you next time!