Aspire with Charlamagne Tha God: From Broke at 30 to Millionaire Mogul— The Steps You Can Steal

22:41And I was like, look at the license plate. I promise you when I look to the left there was a license plate that had a New Jersey license plate and my mind goes there's no radio stations in New Jersey I couldn't do radio there's no radio stations in New Jersey but then my mind goes oh but New York and I was like how am I going to make it from South Carolina which is market number 93 Columbia, South Carolina the market number one but God here you are here I am I mean here you are with like one of the biggest shows on the planet like Breakfast Club is so big I think you wrote each what, six million listeners every single week?

23:14Is that right? Yeah, yeah, like six to eight. It's unbelievable. When you started the show, did you set out for it to be this type of thing? You had that type of ambition for it? Absolutely. Because, you know, there came a point in my life when stuff like that starts happening to you, not only do you have a faith and a higher power, you just start believing in yourself and you start believing in the power of intention and you start believing in the law of attraction, right? So you start doing your vision board and you start, you know, journaling and you just start speaking things. Oh, all of that.

23:40And you just start speaking things in the fruition. So the first time, and Envy and Angelina will tell you this, when I got on Breakfast Club, I was the one saying, yo, we're going to be syndicated. You know, we're going to be a nationally syndicated show. Like, I saw the vision, you know, early, early, early on. To the point where I remember Nicki Minaj had that song, A Moment for Life. Oh, it's one of my favorite songs. Love it. And she had a line in there. She was like, in this moment, we'll be syndicated. And I used to say that all the time over and over. I wanted to use it in promos and everything.

24:07They was like, oh, that's corny. That's corny. No, it's not corny. It's such a good start. And I just knew. I just knew that, you know, this team of myself and Envy and Angela Yee, it was going to do something. You know, of course, you can never say, hey, this is going to be this successful. You just know it's going to be successful. You just don't know how successful it's going to be. And, you know, to be 15 years later and, you know. It's unbelievable. Were you trying to emulate something? Could you see, was there like a version or a blueprint of what you guys are saying? okay, if we set out to do this, you know, it's going to look exactly like X, Y, and Z.

24:41Because I do that all the time. You know, when I start a company, I often take aim at the competition. I will often say, and I remember at the beginning of Good American, I was like, we are going to absolutely kill X. I won't say it. But, you know, it's like a prominent competition. Oh, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, and I would be like, I'd look and I'd learn every single thing about that business. The prices, where their distribution, how they sell, like what they put in emails, like the whole thing. Did you do that? I had my sights set on the competition for sure. You have. Because you got to think this is New York City.

25:11Yes. So 2010 in radio, that's Hot 97. That's the big dogs, right? So all of them could get it. You know, I'm ready to come in here and just chop all of their heads off. But as far as, like, who we were emulating, nobody. The only person I would even think that we were thinking about emulating was Elvis Duran. but not because of how Elvis did things, but just because that was the big show for the company we work for, which is iHeart. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, you've obviously rose to prominence saying some pretty outrageous things, but I feel like in the last, I don't know if it's been in the last few years, I feel like you've completely switched that up.

25:50You have like a new way of being. You seem to like be operating on some very different type of vibration now. Was that purposeful for you? Absolutely. Absolutely. A hundred percent. You know, because I saw the ceiling that existed for a lot of people in hip hop, especially hip hop media. Right. People weren't allowing themselves to grow. And one thing I know about any industry that you're in, you have to know when to pivot. You have to know when to grow. You have to know when to evolve. And I think that one of the mistakes that we make in hip-hop culture a lot of times is we don't allow ourselves to just simply grow up.

26:25Like, that's just something rather new, right? Like, the Jay-Z, you know, with the wife and the kids, you know, doing the 444. Rapping about being a grown-up. Rapping about being a grown-up. That's pretty new. Nas rapping about brunch on Sundays. That's pretty new. Like, it makes me feel good. No, you're absolutely right about that. It makes me feel good to see the younger ones, like the Kendrick Lamars, doing stuff like Mr. Morale. With real grown-up rap. Yeah. So it's just like, we don't allow ourselves to grow up. So personally and professionally, I knew that I was going to bump my head if I didn't grow the fuck up.

26:59And what was the turning point for you? Was there something that happened? No, I think I started going to therapy in 2016 because, you know, I saw myself becoming a version of myself that I didn't like. I was caught up in the whole hip-hop star lifestyle. I got married in 2014, but I wasn't being the best husband. Those two things don't work together. No. Hip-hop lifestyle and the marriage. No, no, no. So I wasn't being the best husband, and I was becoming like my dad. Before I started going to therapy, I thought that I really was upset with my dad because of his infidelity towards my mom. And that made me, literally, I remember just saying to myself, I'm becoming what I claim to despise, what I claim to hate.

27:41Plus, I've always dealt with anxiety and bouts of depression throughout my whole life. So imagine having the success, having more money than you have made in your life. But on the inside, you just fucked up. You don't feel good about who you are. You're thinking to yourself, well, damn, why am I still dealing with anxiety when I don't got to worry about these bills? or, you know, why am I still having bouts of depression when I'm, you know, got this top rated radio show and, you know, I just put out this bestselling book. Like, why is, you know, why am I still feeling the way I'm feeling? And so that's what led me to therapy.

28:14And, you know, if you've ever done any type of therapy, you know, you've done all the types of therapy. Man, you go for one thing. Next thing you know, you're peeling back all types of layers of trauma. I mean, this is it. And it never stops. It never stops. I think about one of my principles, Charlemagne, and it's a principle that I have in business, which is, you know, ultimately you can't be successful in business unless you're successful in life and you have to deal with all of your shit that's right it's like and only you can deal with it and i feel like going to therapy it's like one of many things that just starts to you know you start to uncover but you've got to then deal with it so what does that even look like for you because once you start to learn about yourself you've then got to figure out okay well how am i making progress how am i making change?

28:55Fantastic question. Fantastic question. You know, people go to therapy and they get the language, right? And you start to understand what the problems are, but you don't actually do anything to heal from it. And, you know, I love my good sister, Debbie Brown. I remember she put me on it at one time. She was like, oh, you know, you can go to therapy and get the language. But, you know, if you don't really feel things changing, it's because you're not really doing no real healing work. You got to do the work. You got to go do that real healing work. So that real healing work can look like a number of things.

29:22It can look like, you know, meditation. It can look like, you know, plant-based medicine. It can look like, you know, grounding. It can look like really, really facing those hard traumas that you've been trying to run from and just feeling them and dealing with them. And, you know, I tell folks all the time, man, you get to a certain age and you realize life is literally just about healing your inner child. Yeah. All day long. All day long. All day long in everything. That five-year-old version of yourself. That eight-year-old version of yourself. All the versions. That 15-year-old version of yourself.

29:55Like those versions of yourself that was young and experienced certain traumas, you know, they didn't have the resources that you had. They didn't have the information or the knowledge that you had. And, you know, you got to go back and do your best to heal those versions of yourself. So healing is a constant thing. Like, I don't think anybody ever actually gets healed. No, you don't get done with it. No, because there's always something that's going to trigger you that might bring you back to that place. But at least you've got some tools and some resources to know how to deal with it. Have you been surprised in therapy?

30:27Surprised? I think, well, the first time I ever had a real breakthrough was when I realized my dad used to discipline me with things that he never taught me. Right. And so. I feel like that's one that people are going to go, yeah, that happened to me. Yeah. And also to his credit, when I started talking about, you know, my issues that I was dealing with with my mental health, it caused him to start having that conversation with me. He read my second book, Shook One Anxiety, playing tricks on me. He read my second book and I had a cousin who had just completed suicide that same week. It was the week of Thanksgiving 2018.

31:03And he said to me, my dad, he told me, he said, yo, I tried to commit suicide 30 plus years ago. You never knew? Never knew. He said, I was on, he said, I was going to therapy two and three times a week. And I was on 10 to 12 different medications for my mental health. And you never knew this growing up? I never knew any of that. Did your mother know? I asked her. I said, did you know dad was going through all of this? And she said, I thought he was playing crazy to get a check. Oh. Like, literally. Oh. And so. What guy? But when he told me that, it allowed me to give him so much grace because it made me realize he was just a man, you know, dealing with things just like I was.

31:40But that's why I always say we can't keep secrets. No. Because we keep secrets and it's not doing ourselves any favor. If he would have told me that he was dealing with all of this. No, you may have had a different appreciation of him. I would have known what I was going through. A hundred percent. I was having panic attacks since I was in first. I can remember my first panic attack in first grade. But my second real breakthrough, I'm going to tell you my second real breakthrough. I did ayahuasca. You did? You're one of them people? I did. I'm one of them people. Wow. I did ayahuasca. I did not have you down as an ayahuasca person.

32:09I did it last February, 2024. How did that go down? Because let me tell you, now that I live in LA, everyone's on the ayahuasca. Well, I did a whole ceremony. You know, ayahuasca is not something you can do, just recreation. No, you need a person. We had the shaman. You need a guide and you need to do it properly. We had all of that. And be taken through it, right? Oh, we had music playing, but I'm going to tell you something. You enjoyed this? I absolutely, positively loved it. Wow. 100%. What did it do for you? It put a lot of things in perspective. Like I always say therapy is like you go in a messy closet and you start like folding up things and, you know, putting things in its proper place.

32:47I like this analogy. The clothes you've outgrown, you get rid of, you know, the things you want to keep you organized, nice and neat. Ayahuasca is like going into that closet that you think is nice and neat, especially if you've already done some work, and then ripping it up all over again and then looking at this stuff and saying to yourself, why do I even want to keep this? And it's literally, man, there is, when I tell you that it puts - That's so frightening. That wasn't frightening to you? I'm going to tell you how ayahuasca gets you. The first night, because, you know, I'm a person that already deals with anxiety.

33:18So I'm like, I don't know what this is going to do to me. The first night, it literally said to me, because it talks to you like, everything is fine because everything is fine. It literally said that to me. Everything is fine because everything is fine. I got you this weekend. Don't worry about a thing. Whatever you experience, you were supposed to experience. The next night, oh, my God. Because the first night, I just I took a little bit. The second night, I'm like, oh, that wasn't so bad. I took a large. Woo! And then I took another large. Woo! I'm talking about when the ceremony was over and everybody, you know, sat in the circle and shared.

33:57Ayahuasca was like, no, I'm not done with you yet. You lay back down. I laid down and I just cried. I cried to my wife like a baby. Did she do it with you? Yes. We did it together. It was a three-day thing. And when I say I just cried and was just purging all of these different things, man, And, you know, the thing that came up for me on that second day was stop lying to yourself and stop sharing those lies with others. And that's what really that's what made me write the book. Get Honest or Die Lying. That's big. Yeah. Stop, stop, stop lying to yourself and stop sharing those lies with others.

34:31Are you a changed man after the ayahuasca? I think so, because it peeled back layers and took off masks that I might have still been wearing. You know, so I think so. but it's one of those things that, you know, with ayahuasca, like you got to really process it. It's not something you process the next day. It's not something you process 30 days later. No, that's an ongoing, right? Really? I don't even think I've ever really talked about it publicly. This might be like my second time maybe, like actually talking about it publicly. I would have appreciated if it was your first, but go on. But then on the third night, you know what they told me on the third night?

35:04Everything's okay because everything's okay. First night was everything is fine because everything is fine. Second night was Stop lying to yourself And stop volunteering On a lot of other people Third night was Everything's okay Because everything's okay And that's literally I just walked away from And you feel like You are still changing Because of it Oh man I'm not even exaggerating Do you worry about that change? Because I wonder With someone like you Who comes up Because I know Even in England We all know you For saying the most Outrageous things So do you worry That not saying Outrageous things anymore Means that you'll Fall out of relevance?

35:35No Because the reality Of the situation is there is a version of me that existed that people liked. And I might've outgrew those people, because the reality of the situation is I have to be me. I can't pride myself on being authentic. I can't pride myself on living your truth. That's my mantra, live your truth so nobody can use your truth. I can't pride myself on any of that if I'm pretending to be something that I'm not. So yeah, I could probably continue to pretend to be, you know, a version of myself that I'm not. But why would I, why would I go back when I'm doing better than before? 100%.

36:13Like I started going to therapy in 2016 and I put out my first book in 2016, which is Black Privilege Opportunity Comes to Those Who Created. My life has done nothing but this. Up, up, up, up, up, up, up, more money, more opportunity. But also with that becomes a lot of, you know, because I feel like The higher you go, the more negativity that also comes your way. The more people are out and talking about you. How do you deal with negativity and anything that takes away from all of your success? The same way I dealt with it before. You got to block out the noise. People are supposed to talk. Yes, they are.

36:48Yeah, they're supposed to have an opinion about you. My dad would tell me something that I always... Your dad feels like a very wise person in a lot of ways. He was. My dad... We're from the South. So I grew up around a lot of very wise folks, you know, but my dad would always say, you're never as good as they say you are. And you're never as bad as they say you are. And my guy, Cadillac Jack, who's also a great mentor to me in this radio business, him and my man G-Spin put the Breakfast Club together. You know, Cadillac Jack said, always remember the rule of 10. Three people going to like it.

37:16Three people not going to like it. Four people don't even know what the hell is going on. This is like my rule of thirds. It's a million percent. I think about that in terms of the way I feel. I'm like when you are A successful person When you're chasing a dream You're doing something difficult You'll feel good About a third of the time You'll feel okay About a third of the time And the other third You'll feel absolutely shit And that's okay Because you're supposed To not be good all the time Everyone's not supposed To agree with you That's it People are supposed To have an opinion about you I'm a person that gives My opinion for a living Everybody's not going To agree with my opinion I'd be a fool to think That everybody's going To agree with my opinion And the reality Of the situation is You know There's people that probably listen to me more to disagree with me than they do that listen to me because they want to agree.

37:59And guess what? The algorithm don't know the difference. No, it doesn't. So if you online talking about how much you don't like me and then another person online talking about how much they love me. Yeah. The advertiser's still coming your way. The algorithm don't know the difference. All they know is, damn, Charlamagne got mentioned a million times in an hour. Absolutely. That's it. Yeah, it's so true.

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41:38You say so many things that I love, but this is one of them. It's that you say, if what you build only benefits you, it's not enough. I think that that's such an inspiring way to think about business, to think about entrepreneurship. What does that mean to you? It means that, you know, I am past the stage of, you know, just being a talent. Like the people that I've always looked up to, the Clarence Avon to the world. Clarence. I'm very good friends with Nicole. I love Nicole. She's one of the best. Absolutely. Same. You know, Jay-Z, Arsenio Hall. We're not friends, but I'd love to be friends. Oh, you and Jay would get along well.

42:12Arsenio Hall and an old radio person. I heard that Arsenio was like your hero. Was your hero. He still is. He's one of my inspirations. And, you know, Petey Green. Like, when I think about what they were in entertainment, they were very selfless people. Yes. Right? Who literally served everybody else. So, you know, you already know the legacy of Clarence Abant. Unbelievable. And all the people he touched. Lifted an entire community, an entire generation of people in the business. Same thing with Jay-Z, same thing with Arsenio, same thing with P.D. Green. So it's like, even when I do different deals now, like all of my deals, the people that I've been in business with for a while, it's like, for example, iHeartRadio, I've been doing Breakfast Club forever.

42:56Yeah, I could, you know, sign a talent deal, right, and get a whole bunch of money. But, you know, I would rather do a podcast network, right? So when your contract is up, you do it. I'd rather do a podcast network. I pitched a vision to them. They got it. And they knew that I could do this vision somewhere or anywhere, or I could do it myself. And so they decided to do it with me. And five years later, we have this super successful podcast network called The Black Effect. Or Simon & Schuster. I'm signing Simon & Schuster. Yeah, I'm a New York Times bestseller, national bestseller. But it's like when it comes time to do another book deal, you know what?

43:28I really want a book imprint. I want to be able to publish other people's books. Did that. You know, me and my man Kevin Hart, we had so much success, you know, selling the audio versions of our books. So, you know, our business partners, you know, my business partner, Karen Kinney and, you know, his, Mark, they come together and they're like, yo, they could be doing this. So we create this audio scripted company. I know ownership is so important to you. You've spoken about this a lot. What does ownership mean to you? Because it means a lot to different people. But you've gone out of your way to actually, again, like you said, you could just sign a deal, but you don't.

43:58You create an imprint. You create your own platform. So what does that mean? Ownership means that I can create opportunity for people who a lot of these corporations may not take risk on or may not even know about. Right. Because you have a lot of culturally clueless people working at these, you know, corporations. And, you know, I'm I'm like you. I want diversity. I want inclusion. I want the equity, but I don't want it because it's some form of charity. I want it because, yo, you know, that's why I call my company the Black Effect, because when you put that blackness into something, it changes everything.

44:31Everything. And it's good business. It is good business. And it's good business. End of. Black brings green. Yes. That's it. End of. And that's why when you - The whole sentence. That's it. Black brings green. And so it's like for me, you know, having that level of ownership, this allows me to put myself in position to create opportunities for others. Here's another thing that you say, and I want to make sure I get it right. You say almost at the top of every show, you say, I'm blessed, black, and highly favored. That's right. And happy to be here another day. What does that service mean for you?

44:58When you go out with that at the front of your mind every day, what are you thinking? Purpose. Like, that's my true purpose in life. My true purpose in life is to serve other people. That's what we are here for. Like, whose day can I make better? And, you know, it don't cost anything to serve. Like, you know, people think that you get to a certain level financially, and now you just become this big philanthropist. Nah, if you got half of a Subway sandwich, you know what I mean? And there's a homeless person that has none. Give that person that sandwich and watch how you change their day. Were you that type of person?

45:29Always. Always. You were raised like that? Always. I watched my mom, my dad, my grandma. My grandma was the type of person, if you was playing in the yard, you're just one of the kids that's playing around in the yard. If she has some food, you got to come in here and you got to eat too. My dad was the same way. Like I said, he always had a juke joint, so he was always serving the alcohol and everything else, made sure everybody drank. That's what I come from. I come from a people who were about service. My mom was an English teacher. You know, my grandmother was the school lunch lady. You grew up like reading and like you had that, like the language and the interest, like right from the beginning.

46:05One of the greatest pieces of advice I've ever gotten in my life was my mother telling me, read things that don't pertain to me. So when I was in - That's a wonderful thing for a parent to tell you. Yeah, because it helps you to get out of your box. Yes. And you don't put yourself in a box. Exactly. That's right. And improves your whole vision of what you could become. You get out of your echo chamber. I love that you say that. I just did a podcast with Melody Hobson and she said her greatest mentors were people that she'd never met. Wow. Meaning that she'd read so much. That's right. And those people became her mentors in those books.

46:35And I just love that because, again, if you come from a place where there's seemingly so little hope and nothing, it's like there's always a book. That's right. There's usually always a book. And that piece of advice, you know, when she said, you know, read things that don't pertain to you, I apply that to people, you know. I want to talk to people. Same. That we don't share the same environment. We don't say the same race We don't say the same gender I want to just see What are you on? Yeah, well you have a podcast With Andrew Shorts, right? That's my guy Yeah, we've been doing Brilliant Idiots for 12 years 11, 12 years But this means So the reason I ask you about it Is because you are inviting Like into you Like a conversation Things that you might not Be comfortable speaking about And I feel like you're pushing that out In the culture Like an idea Or ideas That are new to the culture Right?

47:20This is not like the The regular chat Did you do that purposefully, like partnering with him, was that purposeful? No, you know, it wasn't. Because here's the thing, I'm really, when I say this wholeheartedly, I'm really just an energy person. So it's just like if me and a person's energy mesh, if our energy connects, then that's just what it is. I'm sure you're the same way with your business. God will put something in your mind, you'll get some intuition, some type of download, and you're just like, I need to do this. And I need to do it with that person. It literally was like that. And so it's like when my guy, Chris Moreau, Chris Moreau said, man, you need to start a podcast and just talk about being snobby.

47:56When he first told me this 12 years ago, I was like, wow, I do more than radio. You're like, what are you talking about? And he was like, yo, I mean, it's something that's yours. It's something that you own. And I started thinking to myself, yeah, I have been fired four times. You know what I mean? So at least if I get fired again, at least I have a voice. And so I was here in New York and the only, it was only two other people I even thought about doing it with. One was my guy, Lil Duval, but he was all the way down in Atlanta. And that's because me and Lil Duval was already doing something online called The Hood State of the Union.

48:24And then it was another comic. She was a woman. She was actually a white woman. But it wasn't, she was just funny. So I was just like, you know what, maybe her. But then it was just like, nah, Andrew. Because me and Andrew already was having this type of conversation. Did you know him already? Oh, yeah. Because you get super political on this show. But that's happened over time. Really? Yeah, me and Andrew, we all met on the cast of Guy Code. Okay. We were doing this show on MTV2 called Guy Code. So myself and Lil Duval, Andrew Schultz, Pete Davidson. Oh, wow. That would have been a funny show.

48:56It was on air. I mean, it's episodes now. They can't even put on TV. But that's where we all met. No doubt. That cast could not be formed today. We met because we were all on a flight together. I didn't even know he was on the same flight, but we were there for, I think it was the VMA weekend. And we literally got off the flight, shared a car together that Friday. And it's just like we've been locked in, you know, ever since. We started doing the podcast in 2012, I believe. And like 2015, 2016, we started talking politics because we always talk to life anyway. Yes. So it wasn't that we just started talking politics.

49:34It's just that there's more people who care about us talking politics now. We would joke and call him Alt-Right Andy, you know, forever. And then when the woke era came, they would call me PC to God, right? But you're a registered independent, no? Yes. That is your point of view. Registered independent, that's right. Neither Republican nor Democratic. Nope, at all. Is being a registered independent just a way for you to like sneakily be a Republican? No, I think I was registered as Democrat at one point, but then somebody told me something. And then there's a switch. Clearly there's a switch. The reason I was registered Democrat is because somebody told me you can't vote unless you were registered as something.

50:11and the first time I ever voted was for Barack Obama. So Barack Obama was a Democrat. So I registered for, you know, I registered as a Democrat. But then as I started just to like really, really pay attention and dive a lot deeper into politics, I'm realizing like, I don't really care for either one of these parties. Like there's some things I like over here, there's some things I like over there, but I don't find myself, you know, claiming to be any of these things. And so it was like, yeah, I'm going to be a registered independent. Didn't you have Kamala Harris on your show? We've had them all.

50:42We've had Kamala. I've had President Biden. But you had Kamala this time around as she was running. I started, the first time I interviewed Kamala, because I consider Kamala a friend. First time I interviewed Kamala was 2017 when she was a senator. So she was still a senator in 2017 because me and her sister Maya, we got cool a couple of years prior to that when she was working with Hillary Clinton. And so Kamala came on the show in 2017. And I've interviewed Kamala like, what, five times since then? Wow. Yeah, I interviewed her when she was a senator. I've interviewed her when she ran for president in 2020.

51:14I was on the campaign trail with her in 2020. I was going to Brooklyn and Charlotte and South Carolina. I was in these cities with her. And then I interviewed her when she became the vice president and interviewed her when she was running for president. So yeah, I interviewed her like four or five times. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. I mean, she's dope. She's a dope person. You know, that's the funny thing, right? I mean, she chose you. She chose to come on your show. She could have gone on Joe Rogan, for example. She should have went on Joe Rogan. I mean, you said it. She did. I told her that back.

51:43I told her that back in February of 2024, before there was even a thought of her being the candidate. I just knew, like a lot of people knew, Joe Biden ain't going to win in November. So in my mind, I was like, yo, you know, Kamala, you got to you got to take the ship. You got to take the wheel. Listen, if it's about reach, you got to go where the people are. I mean, it's that simple. I told her February 2024, you need to do Joe Rogan. I told her she need to go on Fox News more. Just because I knew that President Biden was not going to win in November and the only thing that was going to benefit that ticket in any way, shape or form was her.

52:19And, you know, it ended up working out the way God wanted it to work out. She didn't win. But I mean, I feel like, you know, they could have made some strides a whole lot earlier to probably change the trajectory of what we saw. You can't do a crash course, you know, when it comes to being president. What was it, 50? You don't know. A hundred and plus days? She did a great job. She did for the amount of time she was in. I mean, it was like, it's not a, you know. I feel like the day after the person's elected, it's almost like you start the next election. I mean, the cycle. It's crazy. But they should take a page out of Trump's book and never stop campaigning.

52:54Never. That's what I mean. It's like you just, you're in a constant campaign mode. Gavin Newsom, I don't agree with a lot of the things he does, but he's campaigning right now. All day long. He's got his own, he's got two podcasts. He had a podcast with Marshawn Lynch. He got a new podcast. I listened to his podcast the other day. I mean, it's good. It's good to understand somebody's views in depth like that. That's right. Anyway, we're not a political podcast. No, no. I'm talking about all the things. I want to talk to you about mindset because mindset is something that I am obsessed with. But I also feel like it's just before I even knew the word or the term mindset, I've always spoken to myself.

53:28and I just wonder when you, like how you think and how you've trained yourself to have this very positive way about you. Do you think about that every day? Do you think I'm going to speak to myself well? I'm going to project what I want in my life. When did that start for you? Really, since I was a kid. But when I really started to understand the power of manifestation, when I understood that, you know, if your mind can conceive it, you can achieve it. Like, literally, when you realize that your thoughts become things, it's actually scary. But can I ask you about that? Because I agree with you.

54:08But I do feel like we've got into a bit of this time in society where there's so much toxic positivity. You cannot manifest your way into everything, right? Like, manifesting alone is not enough. Is it? Is it not? I don't think so. I think it's got to be backed up with some work. I mean, don't get me wrong. You've got to do hard work. You've got to get up. You can't sit in a chair and manifest it to happen That is true You can't just get up I can't get up and say to myself I'm going to win the lottery I'm going to win the lottery I'm going to win the lottery No, you got to actually go out there and play a ticket Or you can't sit up and say I need to have a summer body I need to have a summer body No, you actually got to go in the gym and work out Yes, I do agree with that I've been trying that one for a long time But that's the point, right?

54:43Like you do got to There's other steps But it all starts with this Yes, it starts Everything is mental It starts in your mind It starts with yourself And sometimes, man, we beat ourselves up and we complicate things when we don't have to. If you want to be in the position that Emma's in, if you want to be in the position that Charlamagne is in, you just got to start by doing something. And that something might be literally going to get a job at Chick-fil-A because go back to what I said earlier, positive energy activates constant elevation. You just have to spark that positive energy in your life.

55:15And I truly feel if you just keep walking that path, you'll eventually get to where you want your destination to be. I love that you say that. I mean, I believe it. I worked at Taco Bell. I did. I worked at Taco Bell. I worked at a flower garden. I worked at a warehouse in the mall. I told you I did telemarketing. I worked at a clothing store. And I did all of those different things just because I was trying to do something positive. And then when you start creating that positive energy in your life, you just start to see the world a whole lot differently. Is that where gratitude comes in for you?

55:48How do you tell people that don't feel like they've got anything that they can be grateful for to be grateful for their circumstances? Well, you must hate your life. Because if you wake up every morning, you have something that a lot of people probably wish they could get back, which is just another day to live. Think about all the people that we've known that, you know, met tragic endings or died too soon, too early, didn't get to live to be 42 years old, didn't get to live to be 46 years old, like didn't even see their 30s. Think about all of those people and how they would, you know, literally do probably anything to just live more.

56:30So when you wake up every morning and you take that first deep breath, that's why I say, man, thank you, God, for blessing me with another day of life. because guess what, Emma? That's all I need. I'll figure everything else out. I'm here. I'm breathing. Everything healthy. The finger's working. You know what I'm saying? And you say that to yourself. Absolutely. You're in bed and you say that stuff to yourself. I wake up with so much gratitude. I'd be like, yo, thank you, God. I hit my knee. When I wake up in the morning, my alarm clock go off. I hit that snooze button one more time and another eight minutes goes by.

56:58Then I hit it. Then I immediately roll out of my bed and I am on my knees in prayer. First thing. Straight away. Straight away. I don't do nothing else. I don't check no phone. I don't do nothing. I hit my knees. Thank you, God, for blessing me with another day of life. Please continue to keep divine protection around me. Please continue to keep divine protection around my family, my friends, those that I love. And I'm ready for whatever the day brings. And then I go, you know, I take my shower. I do my morning routine. I go read my daily affirmations. I got two daily affirmations that I read out of.

57:28Ryan Holiday is the Daily Stork. Robert Greene is the Daily Law. And then I try to do five minutes of meditation, which I usually do. and then I kiss my wife, blow kisses to all my daughter's rooms and I'm out. And when I'm in the car, I'm either throwing on some 90s R &B or I'm throwing on, you know, a podcast that I know is going to get me in that right zone. And I set my intention for the day. What a beautiful way to start the day. And my intention is always to serve. And, you know, to have God bless me with the divine protection to deal with whatever it is I got to deal with that day. Yeah, this is why you're so successful.

58:03It's really that simple for me. And gratitude is always my attitude I mean it's always my attitude When I say I'm so grateful for everything And I'm not And it's not even just about You know what you have professionally No no It's just life I mean you have a lot And you and I have so many things in common First I mean You have four kids I have four kids But you have four girls And I'm one of four girls So what are you teaching your kids About life Like what are the important lessons That you're showing them Because I think the other thing and I think about this constantly, Charlemagne, I'm raising my children in a very different way and circumstances to how I was raised.

58:41And I think about that all the time. And so I wonder now, what are you teaching your four girls? Well, to your point - And specifically about ambition and success, right? Because you must want that for them. Absolutely. To your point, our parents were raising us in a totally different world than the world that they came up in. And so when you have conversations with your parents, that's what I always tell people, but that's very important to do. Have conversations with your parents because you realize that they had a life. You're saying have conversations with your own parents. Have conversations with your own parents because you realize they had a life before they were your parents.

59:15So when you do that, you realize that they're just human and you're not afraid to be just human with your kids. The biggest thing I'm teaching my children right now is that it's okay to get things wrong. I mean, daddy don't always get things right and mommy don't always get things right. And I do something to my kids that I feel like I didn't get enough of, if at all, when I was young, apologies. If I do something that I know was out of pocket, you know, and I'm having a bad day and I might project it onto them, I apologize and I tell them what daddy is going through. And you can see how that is received from them.

59:51And you can see how when you project on them, you see how it takes life out of them. But when you explain to them, I apologize. I shouldn't have done that. This is why I did it. you see how it brings life back into them. And that's why I found, you know, the conversation with you so intriguing because I'm always observing, right? First of all, I got four daughters, so I'm always observing just powerful women, like confident women, successful women, women that have accomplished a lot. You are definitely one of them. And, you know, when I hear you speak, I'm like, yo, I love that because all my daughters have that level of security and they speak that way, good or bad.

1:00:29Like they speak that way when they got positive things going on. They speak that way when they got negative things going on. They don't back down from me or their mom, which is great because that lets me know that we've created a safe space for them. But I'm studying people like you. You're the type of people that I want them to know about because I want them just to have those examples. And then when you told me that you was one of four girls, I had a million questions because I'm like, well, what was instilled in you? What was instilled in your sisters? You know, what type of relationship did y 'all have?

1:01:00And when you said that y 'all are still tight now, I love that. Because I love watching the bond between my daughters. It's the greatest thing. It's the greatest thing in the world. I mean, I speak to all of my sisters. Two of them live in England. But I speak to them on the chat. And we're in constant communication. Good, bad, ugly. But I grew up in such a way. I mean, we all slept in the same room as kids, right? Bunk beds and a single little bed. And we were taught that we and our relationship was the most important thing. And that's what I do. Never to let anyone come between us. That's right.

1:01:30And I feel like that was such a lesson because, don't get me wrong, there's, you know, four girls. There's always going to be a drama. But I feel like my sisters are the most important things in my life, like still to this day. And we are tight. There's nothing that is more important to me than my family. I'm so glad to hear that because that's what I stress to my daughters too. What's the age difference, Michelle? So there's a year and a half between me and the first one, 10 years between me and the youngest one, and one in between. So we're pretty tight. You know, you've got a bunch of girls that are early 30s and then early 40s.

1:02:01So a 10-year span, I'd guess. But, you know, I think what's so unbelievable is, you know, I always think despite growing up in the same house, I really believe in that adage that no one has the same parents, right? You have different versions of your parents. That's a fact. Because your parents are on a journey. And I look at my sisters and I have no assumption about how they feel about my mom or my dad. And that's actually what's really brought us together. Like understanding that our parents are fallible, right? And that we had different experiences in our childhood. And that's really been one of the things that I think we've bonded over.

1:02:36Yeah, my daughter is 16, 9, 6, and 3. And so like the 16-year-old is like the big sister, almost another mother. But then the 9-year-old, 6-year-old, 3-year-old, they all like the same age. And, you know, the thing I love is that they'll tell me things like, you know, like you don't hear them talk about their best friends at school. No, your best friends are in this house. Yes, they are. Okay. They always will be. Trust me. You know, you don't want to discourage them. You don't want to hear that when you're a kid. My mom used to say that. And I'd be like, my best friend's Jenny. And then she'd be like, no, no, your best friend ain't Jenny.

1:03:04You won't even know Jenny. Your best friend is Charlotte Rachel and Katie. That's right. You won't even know Jenny after high school. No, I don't know Jenny anymore. You know what I mean? So it's like, these are the people that are going to be with you for the rest of your life. This is the sisterhood, right, that y 'all have. And, you know, the other beautiful thing that I love is, you know, me and my wife have been together 20, It'll be 27 years this year. Right? Wow. Yeah, we've been together since we was kids. And, you know, we got married in 2014. But just them seeing that healthy dynamic.

1:03:33And not even just, when I say healthy, healthy don't mean perfect. Right? Like, yeah. Of course not. Like, we might argue sometime and then the kids are like, when we get loud with each other, the kids start getting loud with us. Like, stop, y 'all cut it out, whatever. And you're like, oh, okay, right? Yeah. You know? Because you recognize it. Immediately. You're like, what is that? Like, we should not be behaving like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. But just them seeing, you know, two people in love with each other. You know what I mean? Like, I've had, I got homegirls who tell me about how they used to see, like, their dad slap their mom on the butt.

1:04:09You know, they see their mom and dad kissing and hugging throughout the house. And that's us all day long. Yes. For them to see that. Which I love. I love it. I love. It's the most healthy thing to see your parents loving on each other. They hate it. Ew. Ew. They won't because they'll be so happy when they're older. You two are still into each other. Absolutely. How important has it been for your success, do you think, being like your relationship? Oh, everything. Especially when you start actually carrying yourself like a man and being the husband that, you know, your wife deserves. Like, that's part of going to do the work on yourself, right?

1:04:43You're going to do the work and, you know, can't no other woman get your eye, right? Have you been able to be honest about that? Absolutely. 100%. you know? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Like, I feel like, you know, anything that's, anything real, you know, can't be threatened. And I think that if you really want a healthy relationship, you got to be honest about your bullshit, right? Like, you got to be honest about all the bullshit that you've done. All the things. Because, especially if you already got caught. You don't have a choice. And by the way, if you get caught, you might as well just put it all out there because you don't want nothing, you don't want nothing that's rooted in a lie.

1:05:19Anything that's rooted in a lie. It can grow. So yes, I've been absolutely, completely, 100 % honest. And I can tell guys out there this, man, and I've said this a million times, and I'll say it's a million more. You remember in Color Purple when Celie pointed her finger and said, ain't no good gonna come to you until you do right by me? The opposite of that is 100 % true. If you do right by your wife, your life will be amazing. Say it again, Brashan. You say it. You tell him. Tell him again. When you do right by your wife, and especially, you know, if you've been a person that wasn't doing right by their wife, you all did messing with a bunch of different women and all that type of stuff, when you cut all of that out and you just focus your energy on that person that you know loves you no matter what unconditionally, your life will skyrocket.

1:06:13Why do you say that? Because it's true. Because I've seen it both ways. I've never seen a guy, you know, cheat on his wife, you know, not be doing right by his wife and have real success. Either they're happy or they end up getting a divorce and losing everything or that other person they're messing with, you know, ruins their life. Like literally ruins their life. And I remember my dad, my dad said to me one time, man, my dad said to me, man, he said, man, one of the worst decisions I ever made was not doing right by your mom. You know, he ended up, he did end up getting married again, but I do remember him having that conversation with me.

1:06:51And I remember him, because my dad messed me up in a lot of ways. I love him to death, but he did. I remember one time my dad said to me, when I confronted him about cheating on my mom, my dad said to me, oh, you only got one girlfriend? One day you gonna understand. And so in my mind, I thought having one girlfriend was a problem. I'm like, I'm supposed to have more than one woman? Because my dad said having one girl is a problem. So then later on in life, my dad tells me, hey man, you had it right the whole time. Yes, you did. You know what I mean? I'll tell you straight up. Yes, you did. You had it right the whole time.

1:07:23But of course, that was your, I mean, listen, that was his experience. That was his lived experience. Absolutely. And that's what he understood, right? And it's only when you know better that you can do better. Yeah, but we got to stop thinking we can cheat the game because you can't. No, you cannot cheat the game. You can't cheat the game. There is no cheating the game. No, it's like people who sell drugs. It's like, yo, you know you're going to end up in jail. You know you might end up dead. You can't cheat the game. No. And it's the same thing when you're in a relationship. you're either going to be committed to that person, right?

1:07:49Men and women, by the way, you're either going to be committed to that person and do right by that person or you're not. But if you don't, just know you're going to have to deal with the consequences of not doing right by it. Talk to me, because this is something that you talk about a lot publicly, but are you worried about the state of masculinity in our society right now? And what are you teaching your four amazing daughters? How are you even modeling masculinity for them? Because we're in a time when there is so much toxic masculinity out there. I don't even know what that is. And what I mean by that is like - What do you mean?

1:08:23Because if you got to tell me that you're masculine, you probably not. Well, yes. You know what I mean? Like I'm an alpha male. I'm a masculine guy. Can you beat me up? I know a lot of guys that y 'all might think are beta that'll whip your ass, Mr. Alpha. So it's like, I don't know what that even means when people talk about masculinity. I believe in the divine feminine and the sacred masculine. And I believe that, you know, when you look at a human being, we are made out of those two ingredients. It took a man to make us and it took a woman to make us. So whatever the best attributes are from each one of those, you know, genders, we should be applying those attributes to our life.

1:09:06And that is how you make a sacred soul. That is how you make that's how you become a sacred being. because that's what I really feel like we are. We're just spiritual beings living a human existence. Like all that other shit. Like you're a toxic masculine man or you're a, you know, whatever type woman. It's just like, yeah, what are we talking about? Yeah, what are we talking about? Are you a good person or are you not a good person? Like that's literally what it's about. Are you a good human or are you not a good human? All those labels are just weird to me. But they exist. They're out there.

1:09:39They're in the culture. You're a cultural leader. You're talking about these type of things all the time. Do you take that leadership like seriously? Do you feel like you have to have a point of view on everything? And do you even see yourself as a leader? I lead by example, you know? I can't tell you what to do because the things I tell you may not work for you. I can only tell you what works for me. And, you know, my observations do change. I'm not a person that's like hardened about anything, you know what I mean? And that's one thing therapy does for you, right? Therapy makes you unlearn a lot of stuff.

1:10:14And it makes you realize that a lot of the things that, you know, you thought you knew and the things that you thought you needed in order to succeed and just, you know, show up in this world, you really don't. I like just an open canvas of life. And you can just constantly fill in your own pictures. And, you know, you're writing it in marker that can be erased because your opinions are going to change. They're going to change. You're going to develop. The way I think at 46, I didn't think at 36. I should hope not. The way I thought at 36, I damn sure didn't think at 26 or 16. Yeah, and I hope you don't think like that at 56.

1:10:45Oh, 56. I don't know what I'm going to be on, but I look forward to it. I mean, I can't even imagine. What excites you now? Building. Building excites me. Creating new opportunities for people to succeed. You know, building things that people actually enjoy, especially with the world that we're in right now, when you see, you know, so much art. being taken away. Like they're trying to erase our history here. Like, right. Like literally trying to erase history. So I feel like art is going to be like one of the only places you can actually get real information. Art is going to be the only place you can actually get real history.

1:11:22So to be at the forefront of storytelling through podcasts, through audio scripted content, you know, through books, you know, through films, which I'm getting into, you know, now. How exciting. Yeah. Through all of that, just being able to, you know, tell the stories that I want to tell and just building. I'm talking about like, when I say building, like we're shooting films and we're going to be shooting something like places like South Carolina where I'm from. I'm not just thinking about the cast. I'm thinking about that woman that's going to be bringing food for the cast every day. I'm thinking about those people that's operating the cameras.

1:11:58I'm thinking about those, you know, young interns who are just going to be able to be on a movie set and they can't believe that that would ever happen in South Carolina. Like that's where my mind is. So that's what excites me, man. Just building, building, building things that I know that are going to benefit a lot of people. I feel like that's so exciting. So for people that are just starting out on their career journey and for those that maybe aspire to the type of career that you have had, what would you say to them? What are the big things that people need to know as they're starting out?

1:12:30Keep God first. stay humble keep working and comparison is the thief of joy like I know that we live in this era you know of social media but just know that when you out there getting it out the mud and you go on social media you're looking at people's highlight reel people not showing you them ugly moments you know what I mean people not showing you when they wake up in the morning and they don't got their eyebrows like the men ain't showing you when their hairlines is you know in the middle of their forehead right they show you when they got the fresh baldy Like they don't show you when, you know, they're losing.

1:13:03Yeah, they don't put their four firings on social. Nah, nah. They don't put their four, exactly. So it's like, you know, you have to run your race, man, and stay in your lane and don't beat yourself up about where you aren't at any given time. Because what I've learned is there's no clock. Just because somebody became a millionaire at 22 don't mean that, you know, that's going to happen for you. You might not become a millionaire until in your 30s. and don't let money be the gauge for what success is. You've never let that guide you? Never. Am I happy? Am I happy? When I'm not happy doing something, But isn't that easy for you because you've got money?

1:13:43No. Isn't that what people say? Like, of course you're happy. You've got loads of money. Yeah, but I was probably my happiest, like literally before I started going to therapy, I was probably my happiest when I was broke, when I was on the come up, when me and my guy DJ Frosty was in, you know, South Carolina doing mixtapes and trying to figure out what the next level of our life was going to be like. When I was driving from my mom's house, you know, to drive up to Columbia to go do radio on the weekends and to go see my wife while she was at the University of South Carolina. Those are probably some of my happiest times.

1:14:10Like, those are the things that me and my guys sit around and me and my homegirl sit around and we talk about those times. Like, those times made us happy. So it's just like, if what I'm doing right now, regardless of how much money it generates, doesn't make me happy, it's not success. So for me, success is what makes you happy. You know why I'm successful right now? Because I'm happy. I'm happy, you know, doing Breakfast Club every morning. I'm happy, you know, being the CEO of the Black Effect Podcast Network. I'm happy when I'm sitting around with my team and we're going over these scripts and stuff like that.

1:14:46I'm happy when I'm at home with my wife. I'm happy when my four daughters are jumping all over me, you know. I'm happy when I can create memories that they'll never forget. I didn't get on a plane until I was 21 years old, and I flew to New York. A plane. My daughter's 16 and got more stamps than her passport. My nine-year-old's six-year-old. They done been to Africa. I didn't go to Africa until I was in my 40s. That must make you so proud that you can give that to them. That's all I care about. That's it. That's all that matters. Like, yo, where are we going this year? That's literally the things that I care about.

1:15:20And making other people happy makes me happy. experiencing new things with the people that I love that's what makes me happy and that's to me that's what this is all about absolutely congratulations to you for being there congratulations to you Emma now all I've got is a rapid fire round for you let's do it first thing you do when you wake up pray I knew you were going to say that what's the last thing you do before you go to bed pray what are you currently aspiring for in your business life hmm I mean the first thing that came to my mind was just success I can't answer that question rapid fire other than to say just success.

1:15:56Massive success. Massive success. Massive success that benefits a lot of people more than me. That's a great answer. What are you currently aspiring for in your personal life? Oh, man, constant healing. I'm constantly on a journey of healing because if I show up, you know, as the man that I need to be for myself, then I can show up for my wife. I can show up for my daughters. I can show up for my friends, my family, my community. So I'm constantly on a healing journey personally. What is the book that changed your life? Oh, I have to say the autobiography of Malcolm X. And the reason I say the autobiography of Malcolm X because my dad gave me that when I was young and it led me to a lot of other books that changed my life, like Message to the Black Man by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, like From Niggas to Gods by Akil.

1:16:51but then you know as I got so many Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday you know a newer one now Mel Robbins you know the the left in theory like there's like there's there's a lot of books that changed my life but definitely the autobiography of Malcolm X because it opened me up to the nation of Islam and opened me up to the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad which led me down a path of studying a lot of that when I was younger and that gave me a really good foundation How eye-opening. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't now? Man, two things came to my mind.

1:17:31Controversy, probably controversy. I valued controversy when I first started out. Now I don't put any value on it whatsoever. Like, you know, if it happens, I know that it's happening now because it's just supposed to happen. Like sometimes you might say something that you're not courting it you're not going after it exactly so probably controversy a great answer all right what's something that you value now that you didn't back in the day peace real peace like actually like like like like actually really really seeking peace like I really just like real peace like having a real peace of mind because that's something that I never even scribe for back in the day because we don't realize staying busy is a response to trauma.

1:18:21So in a lot of ways, you want everything to be, I thought I wanted everything to be kind of chaotic and always something going on and this and that. And it's like, no, what's your favorite thing to do? Nothing. I like when there's nothing to do. I know you know, like when you look on your calendar and you're like, I don't got to go nowhere this weekend. Like I'm home. I'm like, amen. Amen. Amen. So yes. Do you have it? Do you have peace? Yes, absolutely. And when I don't have it, I know exactly where to find it. But you got to make it for yourself, right? And you get that from setting boundaries.

1:18:58Yes. Because you don't have to do everything. And I know you said something earlier that is true. When you've got money, it's easy to say that. But you really don't have to do everything. And even now, regardless of what financial status you're at, it's okay to set boundaries. I am very cognizant of my energy. The things that make my energy go up, I want more of. The things that make my energy go down, I don't want nothing. It's all you've got. Yo. Your energy is everything. And I've always been like this. I'm the person that will be at the airport and be like, nope, not going. On the plane. That's a very higher orbit decision to make.

1:19:36You can only do that when you can come up out of a situation. I don't think. You can only make those type of decisions. I did it when I was on the come up too. You did? And I'll tell you why. I just went, went, went, went, went. It's only happened a couple of times, but I remember having a really bad panic attack at the airport one time when I was supposed to fly to LA. And it was because there was really bad weather. And when I say every single flight was canceled, except for mine, I didn't look at it as, well, maybe that's because you're supposed to be on that plane and going where you're going.

1:20:09I was like, nah. No, I seen Final Destination one too many times. Yes. I'm not going. And you know what I did? I called the network, because I was working at MTV2 at the time, and I told them the truth. And they respected it. I didn't lie. I'm like, yo, man, I'm going to be honest with you. I had a panic attack at the airport. I told them the situation. They was like, all right, cool. You know, it was you and somebody else anyway. That person's already on the West Coast. They can handle it. Great. Done. I did that a few weeks ago. I was on the plane, and I'm like. No going. All to protect your pace.

1:20:38all to protect my peace. Because you can't get none of this time back. Like today, this is it. This is it. The time we spent having this conversation right now, I don't even remember what the date is. We're never getting this day back, ever. So it's like, I'm not wasting my time doing anything that I don't want to do, anything that I know is not going to bring me peace. Why am I going to be in the air flying angry for five hours? Forget about it. No, why? Forget about it. No, peace. I'm so grateful that you decided to give me this time I really am I've enjoyed every single minute of it thank you for having me much success continue to be you know just a great inspiration to women out here and you know just continue to do what you do because I love the fact that you know my daughters can look at you and say to themselves that's somebody I aspire to be like you got it in thank you absolutely thank you Charlemagne if you're loving this podcast be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform.

1:21:39While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilead-Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Leah Reese-Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi.

1:22:19Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and WNE, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry, Emmanuel Hapsis, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me. Look, we get it. You can hardly go anywhere or do anything these days without hearing AI this or AI that. And if you're like most people, when it comes to AI, you're impressed, but have a few concerns.

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