Bethenny Frankel: The Business Model Nobody Else Will Share

20:55What I see myself is, is a person that really is directly connecting to humans. It's all about connection. What's the end game? The end game is when I get tired, I'll stop doing it. The Bethany seal is now something that we're putting on different things and retailers want to pay into it. Stores want to have Bethany approved products in, but that's not an end game. It's just a good idea. And yes, I'll make a lot of money off it. I don't have an end game. You don't have an end game? No, because I'm not motivated by like money. Like I, I'm not, it's just, if I'm going to turn your business, of course, I'm going to make money and I'm not stupid.

21:28I'm not going to, but it's not, I really don't. I want my end game is to be on the beach, hanging out and doing what I want and making money and what I want. And I just keep charging people more because I keep saying no. So the reason I make so much money is I just say no all the time. I won't do things for like any normal amount of money because I don't, I want to enjoy my life or make a lot of money doing it. I'm literally like dead. I was so expecting a totally different answer. Do you believe me though? I completely believe you. I mean, there's nothing not to believe with you. But it's really interesting because I think that so many people have like such a giant vision for themselves.

22:04And when you have options, right? Like, because you have a lot of options. You could really be thinking about this as like, what is Bethany the media company? How do you make a million more Bethany's? I could have a hundred people under me and manage their businesses like this. I could have an agency. I value my life. I value my daughter. Like I want to be, I want to live. I want to be healthy. Where does that come from? I know what it means to be like, what it means to feel unhealthy. And I want to feel, this is fun for me. Like these, it's fun. It's fun that I spilled tomato soup all over myself, go into Talbot's and found clothes.

22:38I was like, wait, they have cute jeans. And then Talbot's, it's all real. Like I just want to live. And if I don't want to do it, I don't do it. So if I don't want to go to the restaurant, If I don't want to go to Paris and walk in fashion week and talk about products for different brands, I won't go. I'm only doing exactly what I want to do. And so if I don't like it, you'd probably have to pay me a ton. And I probably would still say no. But like if it was a ton, ton, maybe I wouldn't because it would be too much to turn down. But I like to have fun. I like to laugh. I like to dance. I like to have sex.

23:08I like to be with my dogs. I like to date. I like to cook. And I just like to be at the beach. So whatever gets in the way of that, I will not do. And what makes you emotional? The risk of that. Feeling shackled, feeling trapped, feeling controlled, feeling like my light is dimmed, feeling put in a box, feeling like I'm given words that I have to do, feeling like I've partnered with someone that's going to make me do something I don't want to do. Like, I really just don't like doing what I don't want to do because it's just not authentic. How much of that is linked to things that have happened in your past?

23:38Like, I just wonder where that dread and that feeling comes from, because seemingly you have so much options at the moment. Like, that's not going to happen. Is that just so much about where you've been in your private and personal life in the past? I mean, I don't know. I just think like, why does everybody have to be a billionaire? Like I could be a billionaire. Like what is that? It's just like a flex now. It's all these like douchey guys and girls. I have a dating concept and every girl who has, and they say, what do you bring to the table? A lot of these girls don't have a lot to bring to the table.

24:07They're like sort of cute. And like, they just come in with their hands out. Yeah. And the only thing they know is they want someone with a big program and a billionaire. and I'm like, who the fuck do you think you are? Listen, Bethany, you are preaching to the converted. I spoke about this so much in my book because I feel like we've gone crazy, like that everything needs to be a unicorn. Everything needs to be a billion dollar opportunity. It's obnoxious and it's a stupid word, enough. It is, and it also has no value. Like at the end of it, it's like, yeah, you might have like a giant thing, but do you want everything that goes along with that?

24:34And I think that there is so much to be said for somebody that actually has a lot of options and chooses what is right for them. Like that is actually the definition of having a vision and a strategy for yourself. You know exactly what is right for you and you are choosing the things that are going to make your life meaningful, not taking every opportunity that you have to build the biggest thing. Because time, we're not getting time back. Facts. There's nothing a billionaire can do that I can't do. And I don't want, I don't care. I like to, there's no price on being happy and laughing. I am funny because I am like an idiot and I love to be like stupid and laugh.

25:11And I like to make people laugh and bring them in with me. and I like to like, you know, show women that like you can turn it out when you need to turn it out. You can be successful, that you can have fun and you can dance the stupid dances and like, it's not that deep. When do you think you learned that? I've been silly my whole life. I've always really liked to laugh. It's the number one. Sleep and laughter, I would say, would be my top priorities, except for my daughter, obviously. So yeah, everyone's always been trying to figure out like what the plan is and did I plan all of this? And I'm always like, I've overshot the mark.

25:40I never planned any of this. I just wanted to be able to pay my rent. I just wanted to not be like suffocating from feeling like I was going to be broke and no one who was going to take care of me. I had no family. Yeah. Well, you had a lot of foresight because if I go back to those original Housewives Bravo days, the idea that you had so much foresight to carve out of your deal any business opportunities so that that could be 100 % yours. I mean, that led to your first success, but you were the first person to do that. And I think that that's so interesting that you were even thinking about and had the foresight to think about yourself as a brand before you were anywhere.

26:15I had nothing. You know what it is? I think this is all linked and I will try to think about where that comes from. Everything that we've said is about having freedom, locked into a deal, agent, someone telling you, shackled, you take a piece of my thing, the brand agency where there's no there there. Like, I just want to be able to do it myself and talk directly to the person that I'm doing it with or for, or just talk to the people. that's why people think I want to be back on television I don't at all do you see me wanting to be sitting and talking to suits and telling them pitching them what would work to then shoot it for all this time and then edit to then wait you have no interest zero unless it were just about in my house like about this but like no I don't because again I don't want to be shackled I don't want crews in my house I left twice I don't want that life how important was it for you that you were able to create that carve out for yourself from your original Bravo contract oh it's a flex it's a flex it's smart it's good like case law for other people it shows to just believe in yourself it shows to never assume anyone's smarter than you and to just like understand I didn't know the difference between the word licensing and equity when I did my skinny girl I didn't know I just but I always ask you didn't I had no idea what either word meant and I asked the lawyer and he said this is licensing means you'll start taking money now equity is like it's yours and I said well this I feel like is my ace in the hole so I like the equity choice but I don't understand a lot and I always ask I'm a crowdsourcer and then I do decide I'm a very great decider decider yes and when you exited that company it was a hundred million dollar exit right I can't say exactly I mean I never have said exactly what it is but it also was like I had a big back end and I had a big multi-million dollar kicker and I also triple dipped because two other creative concepts in that deal were that I said that I would only promote things that we had discussed and then they decided to do something else and I said well you can do it and they said well we need you to promote it And I said, you have to pay me per case.

28:10So they paid me per case. And then there was another, I said to them, well, how do I know you're going to market it? How do I know you're going to market the product so I can earn my backend? And I said, you have to put in writing that you'll market 18 % of the budget. And they didn't spend it that one year. And I ended up being 100 ,000 cases short, but I still got the, I think it was five, like$10 million kicker. So there were a lot of different ways to make money. I kept making money. I made a 10-year endorsement deal too. So they paid me seven figures a year. Wow, so on top of the equity, you actually ended up with an endorsement.

28:42Yes. But that's really smart. That's about you really understanding the business that you were in and your value to that business and finding ways that you can kind of, you know, get more milk from the same cows, we say. I mean, that's it. That's the chicken. That's the chicken. You've got a chicken. I've got a cow. I love it. Well, and also many people only look at the one number and you have to look many different ways. What are the other things you can do if you sign the contract this way at a little bit less than you want to take? What are the other ways to structure? What about taking more upside?

29:09What about, you know, there are many ways to work deals and you can't only think about the one way, which is what most people do. So if you can't get the deal that you want, find your way in. I want to talk to you a little bit about your attitude to money because you've spoken so much about not needing money, not like having to do this job for money, but your relationship with money is interesting. And we spoke a little bit about you growing up around the racetracks and gambling, which was similar to me. But that means that you grow up around a lot of financial chaos. and I read beyond, right?

29:38It always is. I've read somewhere that you said that your mother had tremendous money noise. And I wonder how that kind of impacted your relationship with money. Well, her relationship with men created my money noise. So it was that I have had the noise because she would tell me that she gave up her life for me and that she was with all of these men for money for me. And it was gambling and drugs and you'd be paying back bookmakers and we'd have the whole house was no furniture and a card table and my room would have furniture in it. We'd have six cars in the driveway, then we'd have nothing. I was in 13 schools.

30:17We'd move from one house to another house. We had no financial stability. It was highs and lows. It was racetrack. You want to race, you want a couple of races. You're up for a second. You spent it all. Yeah, yeah. So it was very gambler mentality and it took me a while to crack open a minibar to spend the money for a private plane, but not every time. I'm not wasteful. I don't waste money, time, or food. I don't waste. Same, same, same. So I like it, want it, need it, and like the freedom it provides for experiences, for medical, for things like that. But enough is enough. You know what I mean?

30:51Enough is enough. I'm home safe now. I have four homes. I don't like big, giant, showy places or things like that. So I'm happy. Do you think your kind of obsession, though, around ownership and equity has stemmed from that instability? Yes. There's a lot of instability that has informed where I am now and how I have that relationship to money. And even with men, I've thought at this stage, I needed to be with someone who had more than I do or the same. And I no longer think that. I really, I think that's the worst thing. And I've learned that through the dating community because everybody, all these women wanting to come in and money's their biggest priority.

31:25And mine is happiness and love. I was reading so much about your divorce, which kind of pained and irked me in a way to imagine that a woman could be in a two-year relationship with a 10-year divorce. And I wonder how you think about like your own money in relationship to the relationships that you get into, because you have a daughter. And I wonder if that experience has just made you shut down and be like so overly protective around what you have and how you make it right now. I was very flippant about my prenup then, but I didn't really trust my partner at that time, the whole time. And it wasn't just because I had money and he didn't, it was just because I just didn't trust.

32:03And that, that, that served, that became true. I won't be probably that trusting with money, but I just don't want money to be a character in any relationship. The one thing that should not be a problem in any relationship that I'm in is money. There's something wrong with you. If you are as successful as I am and you're thinking about money. And by the way, I know a lot of very successful, like very successful people that are in the dating community that hundreds of millions of dollars, and they still want a man who has more money than them. You'll give them a great guy who has money and is successful and good looking, it's like a sickness.

32:35And I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like there's something wrong. So you don't need to date a man that has equal money to you. That's how I think a lot of women feel like I don't want a man who makes less money than me. And that's what the, what does that mean? Why? Who, what does that mean? Can we, can we go out to dinner? I have houses. What do I need you to buy me another house? I have bags, watches. What do we, what do we need? Well, I feel like the fear is that that person would be using you or, you know, it's like, if somebody has less than you, that perhaps they're not on equal footing, that that creates a dynamic in the relationship.

33:05Like I understand why women would feel like that. No, I understand that. But assuming that that other person seems motivated by money, if they don't seem motivated by money. That's a different thing. Yeah, if they don't seem like they care about money, if they don't seem interested in it, then you can't penalize them for not having been as hungry as you are. Yeah, I think someone has to be successful to be with me. Someone has to be able to take me on vacation, buy me a present and go out to dinner. But I've had men buy me diamonds and Hermes bags and watches and cars and all this stuff. And it hasn't filled the void.

33:35So I'm certainly not going to make that mistake. And actually, I think many women feed themselves with stuff to make up for what they're not getting emotionally. Because they better get something. They're leaving the game show. They better walk out with something.

33:56for a woman who's sitting there now who's maybe in her 20s or 30s what is the advice that you would give around dating I feel like there's so much just to your earlier point people seem to want so much out of their significant other and he's got a you know it's like everyone's looking for a man in finance, like whatever it might be. What's your dating advice? Well, I'm always around 20 and 30 year old influencers for these beauty brands. And one is more stunning than the next and the nails and the extensions and the lashes. And they all are saying they can't find a man. I'm in my fifties and I find always, always have had great game with men beyond like to want to marry me and like amazing because I don't focus on the things I shouldn't be focused on.

34:36Don't want to be the hottest woman in the room, be the most interesting woman in the room, have something going on, that your own purpose, something that drives you, somewhere you need to be. Be interesting. Have a personality. Be funny. Know something. Have experience something. Bring something to the table, literally. Because what happens is I've met many men who now have full custody of their children. Why? Because the women signed up for that deal. They focused on the lashes and the hair and the Chanel bags. The man wanted that deal. Now we get older. Our kids graduate. What are we supposed to do?

35:10More shopping to go shopping, to get makeup, to go shopping, to go to lunch. I'm bored half the time and I have a business. I'm like, what do people do with their day? And men are getting smarter and more interesting and their businesses and they're looking good and longevity and now the disparity. The woman is sitting home, popping pills and drinking and she has no purpose and he's sitting thriving. And in many cases, even the men, they end up feeling like they need purpose. Like purpose is a big word, but for the women, they lose the custody of their kids because they get into like boredom and into drinking and doing things they shouldn't be doing.

35:43I think it's a really familiar story that you're telling. Like the outward facing stuff. It's like an empty calorie. Like it's just, it's nothing. Everybody was excited in their twenties to have something, to make something, to build something. Now the men are talking, creating, and women are sitting here worrying about what bag and how much nicer they're wringing. Who gives a shit? And the men are like, you're gross. Like, I don't respect this at all because I want to be interested. I want to be engaged in a conversation. 30 women don't need to be worried about their eyelashes, worried about your personality and your intellect and your being fun and being alive.

36:17And just, you know, yeah, being alive. Like not worried, being alive, be alive, live. I want to talk about your recent move because you've moved yourself and your daughter to Florida. It feels like you have this whole new, beautiful life. How purposeful was that for you? Was that like, I need to move away. I want a change of pace. I want something different now. The reason I ask you is I feel like you've been in build mode your entire life. And it feels like fairly obvious that now you want a different pace in your life. Full on. And that's part of the stuff thing. We spend the first half of our lives acquiring the stuff.

36:50And now it doesn't mean anything anymore. And that is the gift that all the stuff that I get sent has given to me. It's amazing to tell people what's good and what's not. My shoes are Amazon. My watch is a very rare, rare Audemars Piguet. It's not cosplaying anything. It's a fact. Literally high-low. But it's literally high-low. Okay. It's amazing. It's that I can't believe how lucky I get. Like I get to go be on the beach every day. I go into the ocean every day and walk on the beach. Like who cares about like being? It's like a made up life. I need a plane. What do you mean? I don't want to go anywhere.

37:19I'm so happy. I live on the beach. My daughter's happy. We have a great life and it's a great base. I think where you have as a base is important. I think finding out what you connect to, whether it's the mountains, whether it's a lake, whether it's nice little walks, whether it's a charming little space, feng shui, whatever it is, have that. For me, it's a place that is like very minimally designed. Are you getting spiritual on us, Bethany? Like all of this like connection to nature and less and like - I feel like I've always been fairly spiritual. I just don't like perform it. I just am it. But I am very into being connected and I'm into the ocean is healing and it's very present.

37:57And I'm very, it's a time when I'm grateful. I don't usually, I'll be excited and be like, wow, this is amazing. But the time that I'll stop down to like, wow, I'm really grateful. is like after snowboarding or surfing or going into the ocean, taking a beach walk. I never say how grateful I am after I make millions of dollars on a deal. I never say how present and grateful I am. What do you want your daughter to learn from what you've done, the way you've moved, all of the things that you've created for both of you? I want her to be happy and that is it. Like for example, she gets straight A's.

38:29She gets like hundreds on tests and 4.4 and she could go to any school she wants probably. She wants to go to school in Miami. She wants to be near the dogs and go to University of Miami. I don't care if she goes to Harvard. Like, I don't want to, we don't want to be at Harvard. We want to be near the beach, swimming. I mean, she's like a free, cool, earthy spirit. She's like, got it. She's natural style. She's like a shining sprinkle, like a light. She's the Nepo. And she's also the Nepo baby. I mean, she happens to be the Nepo baby. We can't take it away from her. You know, she gave me her air wand list.

39:05She gave you an air one list. And I bought a cooler. Yeah, you're about to be$1 ,500 down. I just bought a cooler at CVS because I'm going to schlep a pink cooler on the plane with the NEPO baby's air one list. Full of your air one goodies. Yeah, when I literally couldn't afford a taxi at 39 years old. It's so crazy to me that you literally couldn't afford to take a taxi at 39. Like late 30s. Maybe it was a little early. Whenever I, late 30s, yeah. I mean, but still. Yeah. I mean, like, you didn't have any money. No, I didn't have any money. I definitely didn't. I went on The Housewives and I think I had$8 ,000 in my bank.

39:38I did have$8 ,000 in my bank account and my rent was, I think, $20 something hundred dollars. Did you know that it was going to turn out? Like, were you like, I'm made for this? The Housewives? Mm-hmm. I didn't even know what this was. But I became very good at it very quickly. Do you have any regrets? No, I don't think so. No. I mean, I had... Obviously, you can't regret a marriage because you have a daughter from it. It was the worst experience of my whole entire life by every stretch of the imagination. But I was able to help so many women because of it. And I was able to survive something like that, continuing to prove that like, if you really do work hard at something, it's old school hard work that would get you through anything.

40:20And like, you just treat things like a marathon, like one, one mile at a time. So I think that's important information. I mean, a decade is a long time to sort of burn being, losing hair and being miserable and abused. It was bad. Stephanie, why was it 10 years? What happened to make it that dragged out? Well, there was fraud. There was forgery. There were arrests. There was TRO. There was stalking and harassment. There were multiple trials. There were multiple custody trials. I mean, there was a parenting coordinator that fired us. I mean, there was a guardian ad litem hired, which means a child has their own lawyer.

41:00because there was a lot. There was torture, actual torture. There's the stuff that you're not supposed to do in a divorce that you have to break some rules and know what rules to break. You're not supposed to buy anything on your own, so yet you're supposed to stay in a house with someone. Okay, so you break the rule and then you go buy a house. You're not supposed to leave the marital residence. You break the rule and you do that. You're not supposed to get a therapist unless there's approval on the other side, but you have to take care of something. So this just dragged and dragged and dragged.

41:31Who were you in those 10 years? In that 10 years where you were going through this, what sounds like a horrific divorce, were you somebody other than who we see today? Yeah, and there was a lot of housewives. There was a lot of that, like that. A lot of intensity, a lot of like being frayed and like very much on edge. Yeah, I was tweaking. I mean, it was stuff going on underneath and it was really a bad time. and you have cameras on you and you're supposed to perform and you've got this whole other life that you can't talk about and you're being stalked by the press and you can't go back to your house.

42:08So you're like in your full talk show outfit at Barnes and Noble just to not have to go back to your house with your kid. Like every day there was like a new babysitter, which one day it was like the cupcake making place. The next day it was Barnes and Noble. The next day it was the park. And you're like in something like this in full makeup because you just don't want to go home until it's time to go to sleep. It was really bad. Like there's no way to explain what women go through in a bad divorce. It was interesting for me because there was, from the outside, even though I think that it was fairly well known that you were going through something horrendous, you were also kind of balling out during that period.

42:42Like there was a lot happening for you in your career at the same time. There was a lot happening, but it does feel like I was white knuckling. It wasn't like a free space like now. And I do think that's important for entrepreneurs to give themselves creative freedom. I am the best when I've just come off of a very long summer in the Hamptons or a vacation or sleep into wake the next morning. Like people are too much into the grind and you need, if you're a creative person, you need the space to create and have ideas. And so that was a very crowded time. And I feel like I'm always going to be able to be entertaining and make money now, but that wasn't my freest time.

43:19Now is my happiest, freest time. Say more about that, just in terms of like what you see and the way like entrepreneurs are kind of like made to feel like there needs to be a constant grind? You know, it's great that there are shows like Shark Tank and that people have become billionaires in their garage, but it's made it that every young person thinks that they're supposed to know exactly what they want to do with their lives and they have to be on that road. And I did everything. I was hostess at a restaurant. I was Linda and Jerry Bruckheimer's assistant. I was Paris and Nikki's nanny. I worked for Lauren Michaels.

43:49I had every job because I didn't know we were supposed to be like focused on being something. I thought we're supposed to like live and just get jobs and see where the road took us. Everybody doesn't need to think that they're supposed to be a mogul at certain age. Like be free, be free, live a life, experience things. You're gonna miss so much. I mean, I've had such an incredible life, not because of brand deals I've done, not because I invented the skinny margarita, because I've been, I've traveled by myself. I've had credit card debt. I've bounced multiple checks. I've dated all kinds of people without any goal of what they need to do for a living.

44:24You're saying something that really chimes with me. Not everybody needs to be a mogul. Not everybody needs to have a billion dollar business. The reason that we even understand and have absorbed all of those ideas in the culture is largely because social media has ushered them in. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel the difference for like young people now is that they don't remember life before that. Like they don't know to look up because they never had to. They lived their lives like that. They do, but there's a lot of fun stuff in there. There's a lot of humor in there. There's a lot of cooking in there.

44:51There's a lot of inspiration in there. Like, it's not all bad. There's a lot in there. I mean, I think I've learned a lot in there. So there's nothing in you that feels like the drag of social media, like that part that like pulls you down, that you need a little hiatus. You've got to come off. Then you take a break. Get away from it. Just like working in an office in a cubicle with your head down. Have you ever done that? I could never do that. No, but I've worked as a host. Any job that you hate, you're like trapped in a bad lighting, like, you know, cubicle. That's bad too. Self-regulation is important.

45:19Intervening and knowing if you don't feel good, if your soul is being crushed, you could feel when your soul is being crushed day by day. You feel like if you live where you live is taking a piece of you, if a relationship is dimming your light or stealing your energy, if a job is crushing your soul, and you can feel the difference between being inspired and not. I'd rather be bartending, listening to amazing music than be in some like mobile office with my soul dying. Like live. You have to live. You have to feel free. It will come. The money will come. The business will come. The ideas will come.

45:50If you're being true to yourself and you're living and you're being smart and you have ideas and you're executing them, if you're like really living and experiencing, it will come. If you're a true entrepreneur, you'll find your way. You've built a$20 million business off of yourself. Like I wonder if there's ever a time and ever any part of you that's like, I'm almost like, I don't want to be Bethany today because so many, like your brand is just so much anchored in you and your personnel and you saying these things like, are you someone else when the camera goes off? I am someone else in certain areas of my life.

46:25I am very much someone else in relationship. I do give a little, some Easter eggs, but a relationship is really important to me. And so that is totally private. I am a very private person. That is the thing people don't really understand. I am a very insular person. I am a homebody. Now that is very difficult to understand because people are seeing me when I'm decked, but they're also seeing me a lot in pajamas, more in pajamas. We see you a lot in pajamas. Yeah, a lot, a lot. But I am very private.

47:00What is your future? When you think about every opportunity that you've got right now and the type of life that you've created for yourself, what do you even want and what's in the future for Bethany? I want to be in a relationship, a successful relationship for myself and my daughter because we're rolling very light. And it comes up during holidays. It comes up just in different ways with our unit. There are a lot of personal things going on within her family dynamic, let's just say, that have made it that I want her to be more part of a community. And so the relationship that I want for myself also includes her.

47:40And I know it's possible. And I want it for us. You want a family. You want a unit. I want a unit. I want a family. I want to be part of a team. I want to work for sure because I believe in the power of purpose and I believe being connected to something. I just want enough of the vehicle that I can still connect with an audience in the way that I do now and laugh. It doesn't have to be obviously as often and it wouldn't be, but I like the laughter. I like, so when you said, is it all just on Bethany? Is it too much of just Bethany? I do have a private life, but like, I think it's fun to do all this.

48:14I feel so grateful that I get to just be like, oh my God, they're going to laugh so hard. I need to be expressing myself through laughter, through dance, through connecting to an audience. Like I really just need to express because that's stifling to me to not be able to creatively express myself. How close are you to the family unit that you really aspire to? Not as far away as you would think. Good. How much longer do you think you can keep up with the$20 million years? Oh, well, I can't because it was probably 15 last year and it'll be 40 next year. So I can't keep up with that because it'll be much bigger.

48:50I don't know. Maybe like at this clip, like five more years. Five more years. Yeah, but every year the numbers increase exponentially. It's pretty good. And also a lot of these brands that I've invested in, they'll turn. When the tables go cold, I will walk out. Or if I don't like it anymore, I'll walk out. I always leave at the peak of the party. Hello, I love Housewives twice. at the peak of the party. Your timing is impeccable. I know I keep going back to money, but it's because it is one of those subjects that really fascinates me. Why are you so comfortable talking about money? We were having a conversation about how hard it is for people to actually dig into that subject.

49:28What makes you so comfortable to just put the number out there? I have never put the number out there until today. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm not that comfortable with it. I know that Inc. Magazine wrote about it, so now I'm saying it. I'm not that comfortable with it. just because it'll make people mad at me. So I don't - I don't think people are going to be mad at you because I think people see who you are in it. I think people know your journey. I think people get mad when we're like, what does she deserve that for? I think it's very clear why you make what you make. And I believe that, the truth is, I believe that people shouldn't work for free.

50:02Interns, I pay. I don't believe in anybody working for free. And if you're moving product and you're affecting an outcome, honestly, then I believe you should be compensated. So I don't feel guilty about it. But I'm comfortable talking about it because this is a business show because you've talked about it because you're running a business because you want to inspire people and them to aspire to what we're talking about because it's important that the industry knows what's going on because we're informing a culture because people think I'm sitting around like this crazy woman who's had a nervous breakdown talking about chicken salad.

50:33No, I never did. I always, like, it's not actually that I completely understood your strategy, but I was 100 % sure that there was some secret sauce under what you were doing in social, a thousand percent, because you don't have that much virality by accident. Nobody does. So there has to be something. There has to be something that we are not fully grasping and understanding because you're funny. Like you're shifting product, but it's like there are lots of people that are funny and shifting product. There's something else there that is actually propelling you over and over and over again. And that's what I was like, what the, what is it?

51:06Well, here's another thing. I live inside of TikTok with 15-year-olds. Now, there are a lot of moms there, and I'm in mom talk too, but I'm saying I have peers that walk up to me on the street and they're kids and college students. So it's very unusual to connect with a 55-year-old woman and a 15-year-old, literally. And so I'm speaking a language that really nobody my age is really speaking, but I'm in there with institutional business knowledge. So I live, it's like being, I'm Tom Hanks in Big. I've gone back and I get to play with all the little toys as a kid and tell the grown-ups what the hell everybody wants.

51:44Oh, that, it's the straddle. It's the, do you understand? Yes, no, no, no, no, no, it's the straddle. I have a home on Instagram too. I have a primary residence there and that's where the cross-body latte drinking moms are. But in TikTok, it's different. So I'm living in YouTube. I live in a lot of different worlds with every age. So would you be as successful if you weren't 55? Like, would you be as appealing to all of those brands if you didn't like cross that demographic? I don't know. I don't fit into, and I'm not saying I'm so great. I just don't fit into any singular mold. So people are not understanding what it is because it's strange that I walk, where it's illustrated with 25 year olds, you know?

52:23There's nobody my age there. And, but it's not like they're giving me the token grandma role. Like it's landing because moms are saying, thank you for like, thank you for A, not disqualifying us as a group, I could be alienating moms, but I'm not because they're like, thank you for not disqualifying us as a group, but also for being out there and being happy and confident. And my thing is, we can all look like crap a lot of the time. That's okay. I'm a mom too. I get it. When it's your high school reunion, when it's your Saturday night, turn it out. So on this day, I'm going to turn it up, but this isn't me every day.

52:55I'm going to tell you all the things I did today and that everybody took three hours to get ready. So I feel like it's the connectivity to But all anybody wants is honesty. So am I going to be able to convince you to do your own Bethany brand or is that just off the table for you? The Bethany brand, listen, someone came to me with a cookware brand and I had an idea that could be branded as Bethany. That's not, there's a couple of food items. There's a hair care company. But are you like starting a company from scratch, Bethany? That takes too much work. I don't want to do that. I have no interest in doing that.

53:26I really do. Then I have to be here for five days a week with you. Yes, you do. Yeah, literally. Yeah, I don't want to be in it. If it means I have to be in a place for five days a week, 0.0. No way. 0.0. It's going to interact with my beach walk, period, the end. Yeah, I mean, totally. No. I'll tell everybody else what to do and it could still land. So if you have any wonderful ideas, but I'll tell you exactly what I will and won't do. I'm not doing the Blood, Sweat and Tears Bethany program. So what's next for Bethany? These things that I've sort of sprinkled in, the Bethany seal is something we're talking about.

53:54Retailers are going to have sections with my stuff. The list is growing. Like the Bethany seal of approval. Yeah, that, you know, the Bethany Steel of approval. And like I said, the equity deals that I've invested in, the coffee maker example, like things like that, things that I'm passionate about. There's something in the cannabis space that I find interesting, things that I'm obsessed with. That's just it. Yeah. What do you still aspire to? Like one thing I could do, like a bucket, Saturday Night Live. Oh, I mean, what? That's just a no-brainer. No, they're like major. Put you in. I don't know.

54:27I mean, they've talked about me a bunch of times, but Saturday Night Live it's just like that and I'd be nervous but like you would be nervous but you would be good I can see that I imagine I was an intern years ago I got an internship in NYU well you said you worked for Lorne Michaels well no I worked yes at Broadway video and pictures but I was an intern I got an internship at NYU at SNL and SNL said they couldn't give me credit and NYU said they wouldn't let me do it oh what a nightmare and I should have just yeah you should have just fucked up I should have pushed through you should have done a Bethany you should have started ranting at someone something.

54:59I know. I didn't. So anyway, I was almost in those. You live and learn. Because I care about humor. But you may be, you know what? Like, I still feel like this is going to, this is coming for you. That feels to me like, no brainer. Well, anyway, but that's just a fun thing. But that's a good, but I love that. It's a fun cute thing. It's a fun cute, but we've got our fun cute things. You're full of fun cute things. Yeah, it's a fun cute thing. What about you? What do you still want to do? I mean, so many things, but actually I just like want to get good at the things that I'm doing right now. I just wrote a book.

55:25It was the hardest thing I'd ever done. Really? It was so hard for me, Bethany. I can't even tell you. So I actually enjoy that process of like being in a space that I feel less good at because I learned a lot about myself in that process. Wow. Yeah. All right, we're going to do rapid fire. Okay, great. Okay, let's go rapid fire. What's the most money you've ever spent on something stupid? Define stupid. I mean, everything that's not totally necessary. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars and watches. I have a major watch collection. Oh no, I have a crazy bag collection and watches, but I've culled it.

55:58Bags and watches is your thing? Yeah, and cars. Bags, cars, and watches. And houses. But I'm still, they're not crazy. Like the houses aren't like$50 million houses. Like bags, cars, watches, and houses. But I don't buy anything. It's not an investment. That's why it's not stupid. A bag is not an investment. No, no. That's what my husband would tell me. No, 99. Doesn't matter if it's Hermes. No, doesn't matter if it's Hermes. But if it's a specific rare one, then it is an investment. It's rare to fuck. But it's got to be rare. We've got to have exotic skins. No, yeah. And even those. No. All right.

56:27If it's super rare, fine. We'll let you have it. What is a rant that you've gone on or a tirade that you've gone on that you regretted? Saying cry me a river about Meghan Markle, I regret. You do? Yeah. It wasn't necessary to say. It wasn't just talking about like, what do people think in exploring conversation? It just became so pointed that it lost the plot. Like I have talked about decisions that people have made that I've been okay with because it informs. I've talked about the Kardashians. Like decisions as parents, but I've talked about myself and things that I've done and mistakes that I've made or things that I think are bad ideas.

57:01Like there are just things that I've said about people that I regret that didn't need to be said because it wasn't really moving a conversation forward. It just felt like a personal slight. And I don't want that to be what anything I say is because it's actually not. It's actually not. It's about like moments in history where things are happening and choices that people have made. That's really what it is. What is totally off limits for you? Now relationship. Who I'm dating. I'm not going to, I will not jeopardize someone else's privacy, which will ultimately ruin my life. I just want to be happy.

57:32And I've never, ever been in a relationship with someone who's a public person. So I'm not going to find someone who's, I've never been with someone who's on social media, really. So I am only attracted to people that are private people. So I have to, I'm not on reality TV. And I have to make sure that they understand that this is a clown show over here, but that my life is different over here. It's separate. What's the most unhinged business pitch that's ever been presented to you? It was something with horses, with secretariat, like the rights to the name of secretariat, the greatest horse of all time.

58:03But there was really no great execution plan. There was really no great execution plan. What is the pettiest reason that you've ever turned a deal down? I don't think I would turn a deal down for a petty reason. I really just don't. It's always for a good reason. It's a business reason. Yes. It's not my pet. I'm not really petty. If you come for me, I'll cut you, but that's not really that petty. That's more cunty. Do you know what I mean? It's more like, yeah, I don't mess with anyone who's not coming for me, but when they do, it's not going to be good. God help them. Yeah. There you go, babe.

58:35Literally love you. Thank you, Bethany. You're so good. I love you.

58:44If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Executive producer, Ashley McShann, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren LaGrasso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

59:20Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Shuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you could DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

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