Lessons from Hollywood’s Most Powerful Woman—And How They Can Help You (with Donna Langley)

24:48Yeah, exactly. And again, it's about seeing that white space. Where is there a gap? Where is there a need for something to be? I always say it's really fun to give the audience something that they had no idea that they were waiting for. And again, Girls Trip was a really good example of that. Same with Bridesmaids. If you asked me, Emma, do you want to go and see a female comedy? I'd be like, no. But then when I saw it, I was like, I can't get enough of this. This is amazing. Exactly. So then that goes to who you collaborate with, who you choose to go and make something like that. Because you're seen as someone who's very much like the friend or the champion of the creative.

25:26So what is it about you and your taste level or your relationships that makes you so good at what you do? Well, I love experts in the field, right? When I look at animation and you mentioned Despicable Me. So Chris Melodondre is an absolute expert in the field of animation. Now, I'm not responsible for him being at Universal. It happened before me, but we've worked together very closely for 15 years. I mean, if you think about it, 15 years ago, there was no such thing as a Minion. It didn't exist. I don't remember the time before Minions. You probably don't. If you have children, you do not remember the time before Minions existed.

26:01Every day, there's a Minion of some kind. And what he's done in the animation space, and he rivals now both Disney and Pixar, which were the two dominant brands. And we also own DreamWorks Animation, Shrek and Puss in Boots and things like that. But, you know, picking collaborators who are really good at what they do, not just really good. They're actually the best at what they do. Same with Jason Blum in the horror space. He's an incredible horror producer, filmmaker. And I don't like horror movies. I don't like watching them. And I don't even like watching the trailers. So, you know, going and finding somebody who loves all of that and excels at it and bringing them into the company to do their best work with us.

26:44Again, it's a sort of another pillar. And I think another way that we've managed to be very successful. But it is a huge part of what you do. You know, I read about Christopher Nolan coming over to Universal from another studio to do Oppenheimer. And I wonder what your secret is to making big name talent want to work with you. It's a lot to do with stability, right? If you think about making a movie or making a TV show, making anything, you want to do it with and for people who know what they're doing you can look at the organization and see real stability you can sort of look through it and and if you ask yourself the question you know is this a decent group of people are these people who work with integrity do they work well together is there sort of minimal politics that's the kind of environment that we've worked really hard to create and to foster and it's not very Hollywood is it because when I I think chaos, craziness, you know, not stable at all.

27:40And instability. Yes. Yeah. So I think we've been able to maintain our stability with a really strong management team and a good culture. And culture does come from its top down, right? Culture comes from the top. Yes. From being the leader that you are. I couldn't agree with you more. What is the skill that you've cultivated to make people comfortable and make them be able to see that? I mean, look, I think some tenets of leadership are first and foremost, that decency is a superpower. It is not a weakness. And I think in certain industries, kindness, decency, these are words that are frowned upon, right?

28:19They are viewed as weaknesses. They're not. It is much harder to make the right decision than the wrong one. It's much harder to stand in your integrity and your truths and your authenticity than not.

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31:06Yeah, and I feel like that's part of the reason you standing in your integrity, that you can champion creatives and that you get to kind of play in these kind of niche lanes where popular wisdom might tell you that that's not going to be a hit or it's not going to be great. Can you give me an example of when you've had like real conviction about something that everyone else has been like, this ain't a hit? Mamma Mia was that. And, you know, look, it's one of the inevitabilities of leadership. As you well know, sometimes you have to make an unpopular decision. I remember during the pandemic, do you remember when everyone was talking about it only lasting for two weeks?

31:45Oh yeah, I remember those days. Everyone left their coats. We'll see you in two weeks. Everybody left all their crap all over their workspace, you know, because, oh, we'll be back in two weeks. And I was like, no, no, no, we're not going to be back in two weeks. It might be two years. Did you understand that that was going to be the shutdown of your industry? Yeah. Did you get that? I did. I did. I understood it. Yeah, I had enough wisdom and just foresight and also just speaking to people all over the world. We had an office in China and we were just, you know, just we could see it coming. How do you even prepare for something like that?

32:19How do you get everybody? Because again, we're talking, you preside over, is it thousands of people? There's like so many people globally. So when you have to be the person that is delivering that message and yet there's such uncertainty, like what did you do? Well, one of the things that I insisted that we did that was very unpopular is I started moving our films from the release calendar. Right. So we always date our films a year or, you know, six months, years in advance. And we had, I remember it, having a conversation about Fast and Furious. Right. Fast and Furious was set to come out that summer.

32:56Right. Remember, we all went home in March. It was a summer hit. I said, we're moving it. We are going to move it to the end of the year. thinking that you could then have a theater release. That's right. And we'll see how it goes. We'll get to the summer. We'll reassess. And it was, it was unpopular. Did everyone go, boo? Oh, it was a big boo. It was a big boo. And I walked out of that meeting and I went to the bottom. I had to literally give myself the talk in the mirror. I was that cliche. So how do you get, because of course, with a film like that, you've got, you know, I'm sure all sorts of forecasts.

33:31You have an idea of how much that should generate if you were taking it to theater. So how do you balance that level of risk-taking? Like, how do you get comfortable with taking really big risks? And how, more importantly, how do you get everyone else comfortable around you? Yeah. Well, launching a film or, you know, a TV show, but a film in particular is, is like launching a new business every single time, right? You're bringing it to market. You're having to build your marketing campaign, your business model, your rationale, getting all your constituents on board with it. So there's a few different ways that you do it.

34:05I'm a big believer in building consensus along the way. If you can avoid it, not walking into the room with decisions already made, even if you already know in your head. Donna, I'm going to stop you there because I need you to explain that to people because this has been one of my biggest learnings. I remember, you know, when I was in my 20s, I'd walk into a board meeting and be like, surprise. No, people don't like that. No, they don't. Funnily enough, I was like, oh, why didn't that go down well? Building consensus along the way. Will you just talk a little bit about what that means, what that looks like in your business?

34:35But I think it's a huge lesson. Yeah, I think it's applicable, right? In a bunch of everywhere, so many industries. So in our case, there's a big myth in our industry about greenlighting a film that, you know, that's the decision to make it. How does a film get greenlit? Who has greenlight power? When does it happen? How does it happen? Well, the reality of it is, again, when you're getting ready to make a decision about a film, it's a lot of different pieces that need to come into play. And it's an iterative process. It's a creative process, first and foremost, and that you have to then build a business model around.

35:12And so in the case of a film, you need everybody from the people whose job it is to create the marketing campaign, whose job it is going to be to oversee that film and make sure it stays on budget. It stays within and the creative vision that we've all decided upon. The people who are going to get it into the theaters, get it all around the world, be in charge of the dubbing. I mean, there's so many people who touch a film, you know, inside the studio. And so having an iterative process around that so people can get used to it. If you have time, it doesn't always work out that way, but generally speaking, it does.

35:48And so it's everything from just sort of getting them on board early with the idea of the script, you know, what even is it? who's going to be in it, giving people a voice. And again, it's not at the end of the day about making decisions by committee because that's not helpful or healthy. And it's not a democracy at the end of the day. There is one leader usually who is accountable, right? For making sure that everybody's got their salary paid. It's not a democracy. But sharing in that process, in that journey to get to the outcome is, I think it's a very healthy thing to do for an organization.

36:29I think it's healthy. And I think that it really, there's something really powerful about it. And I think that anybody that's listening to this today, you know, and it can be something as big as Greenlight in a whole movie. But if you boil that down to, I don't know, you have a big presentation in the office. The idea of, you know, you presenting that on the day and getting everybody that needs to buy in, brought in in that moment is very unlikely. And so the idea of going around and bringing in the different departments or the different individuals, and I guess like preceding some of your ideas and showing people and getting feedback and building consensus, like it's so powerful.

37:08And it took me a really long time to learn that, but it's probably one of the best things that I've learned because people feel they've come along the journey, that they're not, you know, completely sidelined by what you're saying and that they've been part of that decision making. So it's a really important thing to learn. I think that's a great example as well, using that kind of presentational moment because, you know, we've all been there, right? And I think what this process really is all about is as a colleague, as an employee, as a leader or boss, really it's about empathy and compassion.

37:43You're putting yourself in somebody else's shoes for a moment to say, I'm walking in with this idea. I want that person to buy into this idea. And if you don't go to the next point, which is, what is it going to take for that person to buy in? Meaning, what does it mean to them? What is going to put their ass on the line if they sign up to my idea? And you having an understanding of that actually makes your idea better because you can solve for that issue before it's even an issue. Exactly. Well, absolutely. It might make you refine your idea a little bit, right? If you really can kind of go around the table and go, okay, what do they all need?

38:18And what are they all going to be? Because people at the end of the day, really, we all do it. Like, you know, it's my livelihood. Am I going to be okay if I put myself on the line for this one? How have you developed your leadership skills over the years? Do you like, do you have a coach or do you, has it all been trial and error? Because you have a very, I think what you're known for in your industry is that you have an extremely empathetic leadership style. You lead with creative, you're seen as a friend to the creative, but people that work with you, under you, you know, at your colleagues, you are seen as a very elegant, sympathetic and empathetic leader.

38:59Where does that come from? Because your industry is not known for those people, I'm just saying. Your industry is known for the characters that were portrayed on Entourage, for example. or the studio more recently. Yeah, I mean, I think going all the way back, my mom probably was my biggest coach. But yeah, yeah. But you know, I think a lot of it has been trial and error. And I do believe that I learned the best lessons when I made a mistake and or when something went wrong. I mean, really adversity, I think, is our greatest teacher, right? I, you know, I'm not, that's not an original sort, but there was a time in my career where I had a horrible boss.

39:45He was awful and I behaved badly. And, you know, I tried to undermine him and it impacted our output. We weren't making good creative decisions. No one was happy. You know, my colleagues were miserable because everyone was sniping and bitching and complaining. Once that situation was over, it resolved itself having nothing to do with me. I had to do some soul searching because, you know, I wasn't happy with who I was behaving that way. I was not my best self. I wasn't bringing my best self to the table. Were you just trying to do what you were seeing? Were you trying to be the same leader as you had?

40:21I was trying to survive and I thought I could beat him. And I thought the way to beat him was to undermine him. And it wasn't, you know, he, again, he, all things were revealed in the end. And even if I had prevailed, I wouldn't have felt good about it. No. And I did not. I did. That's not how I was raised. That's not how I raised my kids. It was, it really went counter to my values. And so when I was faced with a similar situation another time, I behaved very differently. You did? Yep. I did. I took the high road. You did a Michelle Obama. I did. I mean, what would Michelle do is, you know. She always goes high.

41:03Always go high. As somebody else recently said, take the high road. There's less traffic up there, which I think is a really good one, isn't it? Oh, I'm going to remember that one. That's going to come out like it was my own tomorrow. But that was a big lesson for me. It was before I had kids. It was in that moment era of my career where I was just scrappy and I didn't know what I didn't know. And yeah, but it was a hard lesson to learn. Or it was a good lesson to learn a very hard way. If I hear you right, you say that failures are completely inevitable. But how do you hold the failures without letting them eat at your confidence?

41:42A couple of different ways to do that, I think, is first of all, you have to go very deep on why did something fail. That can be hard, can't it? It can be really hard because you have to be very honest with yourself. You have to own it. Take accountability. You do. And what I've found in most times I've made a mistake, if I take that moment of reflection, however it works, whether that's in a group setting with colleagues or it's a long walk around a park, you know, or going and talking to somebody, it always comes down to, oh boy, I did something against my intuition and my instinct. Yes. It always comes back to that.

42:22Are you somebody that leads with gut instincts or are you like looking at data constantly and dissecting that? No, it's gut instinct first and then the data needs to conform to my instinct. Right, right. Do you ever go against the data? Numbers are just a different way of telling a story. Yes, yeah. But you've learned to embrace the numbers. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever got it completely wrong? Oh God, absolutely. Yeah. Not too many times, you know. It's better to be right more than you're wrong in my business. Yeah, exactly. Because they're such huge bets. Yeah, they are. They're such huge bets.

42:55When did you get comfortable in your life, like taking, because what you do, I mean, it's so big and there's so many people on the line and such a huge amount of money and credibility and all the things. So how have you managed to get to the point where you're comfortable just to make those decisions and to have the failures? I think I've never looked at them as risks. There's lots of things written about our studio, about, you know, whether it was Oppenheimer or, you know, a number of different decisions that we've made as being risky. And I think part of it is I don't see them as risks going in.

43:33And it might just be I see them differently. And I haven't been surprised too often in the wrong direction. and so it's validating, right? If you follow that gut instinct and you, again, you bet on brilliance every time, you know? And also I think the other thing is when we have failed on something, on a project, but the integrity was there, we did follow our instincts. We did everything right, but the movie gods didn't align as they sometimes don't. I can feel okay about that. I can, you know, nobody ever likes to lose money for their parent company or anything like that. But I can, I can. You can reconcile it.

44:16I can reconcile it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because not all great bets come off. Like sometimes they can still be, you know, a good idea or a great story to have told, but it's not commercially viable. Or the timing was wrong or, you know, there was some, there was some factor that you couldn't control. But you seem to have like a balance of assertiveness in your leadership style, but with the elegance as well. And that's what I keep coming back to because I just don't think that you see that so much in your industry. So you must, do you consider yourself a bit of an outlier? Very much so. Yeah. And longevity at a company is so rare today.

44:53Yeah. It really is, isn't it? Nobody seems to stay anywhere. It's like I get resumes constantly, like two years here, three years there, two years here, three years there. And how do you continue, if that's a choice that you've made, how do you make sure that you continue to grow and you continue to thrive. Yeah, well, I could get bored very easily. And so the fact I've been at my company as long as I have really is, you know, testament I am never bored. Yeah, there's always some really fun thing to do. And I thrive so much on the creative process and working with creative people. So each movie feels different.

45:28Each filmmaker is different. And it's a different set of challenges and opportunities. But my company has also been bought and sold many times over. And so it has felt like I've worked for a bunch of different companies, even though it's all within the same one. We've been owned by the same company now for a number of years. And that stability is really nice and good. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure if I was coming up today, I wouldn't have the same career path. I would bounce around a little bit more and probably go between traditional media and tech and do all those things. It would be very different.

46:02But I have enjoyed working with a management team as long as I've worked with the majority of my team because we've built up, you know, some core competencies that make it really satisfying to go to work every day. I bet. Do you think that there, or I should ask you, what are the specific traits that you have as a leader, as an executive that have helped you remain effective and resilient? I'm not fear-based, right? Because I just feel like the last few, like it's been extremely challenging circumstances in your business, right? Yeah. But you have remained who you are and you've remained very successful, but you've remained like at the core of who you are.

46:43Yeah. I have lots of cliches that I bandy around a lot, you know, and one of them is you can only control what you can control. Right. Right. And so while all of this swirl is happening around us, whether it is the pandemic or, you know, the disruption, the innovation that's happening with AI coming in. I mean, it must be crazy for your industry. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't know yet what it's going to bring us. But, you know, our job is to be kind of eyes wide open, look around all the corners, don't put your head in the sand, know that it's coming, meet it head on, but look at it as an opportunity.

47:20Right. So I think it's just, it's that. It's also, I have another fun saying where I say to my team all the time, the cavalry is not coming. We are the cavalry. So we need to just get on with it. We just need to get on with it. It's down to us. Just get on with it. It's like no one's coming to save you. Yeah, no one's coming to save you. Exactly. No, this is it. This is it. It's us. It's us. So let's get on with it. Let's get on that horse and go for a ride. It feels like a very British mentality. It is, isn't it? It's very stiff upper lip. Yeah. Keep calm, carry on. Keep calm and carry on. But it kind of works because, you know, I think if you let all the noise in, then you get off your, your sort of, your axis, you know?

48:07And I think when, as you well know, when you're working with creative people in a creative endeavor, it is really important to stay very centered. Yes. and not allow distraction into the process. You know, you've got to keep really focused on what it is. What's the vision? What are you trying to accomplish? What should this mean to the audience? What do we want to convey? You know, and how do we get there? Denial is probably pretty healthy. A little bit healthy denial.

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51:06like reflecting more broadly do you think that your journey would be possible anywhere else other than in america it's such a great question and i do ask it a lot i i'm not i don't think i would have been able to do what i have done in the uk i i don't sadly no no it's true i think it is quintessentially American. Yeah. Yeah. The journey specifically, like that journey is just something that can only happen. Yeah. I know it's, it's so interesting because I think in a moment where so many people are down on this country, I think that there's so many great things about this place, but one of them is that the American dream is still alive and kicking in so many, in so many ways.

51:49I always used to say, and this is not a knock on our country, but I always used to say in the UK, you would have a big idea and the answer would be, response would be, what do you want to do that for? Why would you want to do that? Knocked down, straight away. You come here and you have that same idea. How can I help? What can I do? Let me be a part of that. But in our wonderful country, you have been recognized as a dame. Yes. You're Dame Donna Langley. I should like a curtsy or something when you come in. Does that honour mean something to you? You know, it does. It does. I remember the year I got it, which was right before the pandemic, actually.

52:26So I didn't collect it until afterwards. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I know. It was a dream delay. I saw the photo. That's why I'm wearing polka dots today, by the way. That's right. Because I saw the picture of you and King Charles. So you did get to go and get it in person. Yeah, I did. I'm so upset. It was fun. But I remember my son, he was nine at the time. And I was, you know, looking at the thing, the letter that I'd received. And he said, mom, is this something that you wanted since you were a little girl? And I said, God, no, absolutely not. You know, you sort of thought it was something that other people had and sort of older people.

53:01Yes. So it was an interesting one when I got it, but it was really wonderful. And I love my country and I do identify very strongly with, you know, with a lot of cultural aspects of being English. And so, yeah, to be recognized for the contributions that I've made to our industry and other things. And in such a very specific and beautiful way. It meant more to me than I thought it was going to. I have to say I'm very proud of it. I can't imagine. You should be so proud. And you are such a one of one. And again, I think it's so important for British people to see. Like the idea that you could be born in the Isle of Wight and climb the ranks and be in this position in Hollywood.

53:43I mean, it's pretty major. And one of the things that I really wanted to touch on with you is that you were such a figurehead during that moment of Me Too. And I think everybody, certainly everybody who listens to this podcast knows what that was about. But I wanted to ask you now, being reflective and in hindsight, looking back, did it work? Did it actually change your industry? So what I would say is I think it did change the industry. I think we made progress. And what I learned very early on in those days was our job was to make as much progress as we could and understand that the door would probably shut behind us at a certain point.

54:24In fact, Gloria Steinem came to speak to us and she said a version of that. You know, movements are not linear. They kind of meander around. Exactly. It's like, you know, you look at any movement and you make real progress, usually in the face of crisis. Yes. And then for whatever reason, the door gets shut behind you. And oftentimes you can go a little bit backwards before you go forward. Exactly. It's like a pendulum swing, right? Yes, exactly. We're waiting for the overcorrection. We want to go like this. Yeah. And I do think it was, you know, it's been an interesting few years. But I know in my own organization, we made a ton of progress.

55:01and I know in the industry, we made a ton of progress. One of the things that came out of it, which I really appreciate that I experienced and benefit from is a lot of women came together as a community that had not happened before. Very true. You know, I think we had all been raised up in the industry thinking, you know what, we had to be a little bit circumspect. We were put in competition with each other. There were so few opportunities for us. We were there in service of the guys and that all kind of went away. I think we broke down a lot of barriers there, which was really good. Yeah, I mean, I think I could see that at the dinner you hosted for Vital Voices the other day.

55:37Not that the two things were linked in any way, but the group of people that you put together in some, I guess, in some conversations would be considered competition. This is a bunch of very high powered women in your industry that have come together because of that. And so I think that that was a hugely beneficial. Around common goals. And that can't be taken away from us, right? No, no, no. You have. That's there now. We can shut down programs and we can do all the things we need to do to conform to what the government needs us to do. But you can't, you know, you can't undo what's been done.

56:07So what I would say is, you know, the work is not done. It's not over. There'll be another moment when, you know, we have the opportunity to really forge ahead. But in the meantime, just keep at it. And I think this is something that everyone can do. I always say it doesn't really, it doesn't have to be a big thing. It doesn't have to be a big program or a big gesture or something. small things help, small things matter. It doesn't matter if you're an assistant, it's going to be somebody else around you in your place of work, in your friend group or wherever, you kind of need that helping hand.

56:39It can make all the difference. And that is in any industry, because it doesn't matter if you're in film, if you're in fashion, if you work a more traditional corporate job. I think that that movement helped move the curtain on so many of our industries. And we all started to think about doing things differently. And we operate differently as a result of your time. Often, I guess that you are the only woman in like a very influential space. And I wonder how you find your voice and your confidence. Is there something that you call on or a ritual that you have, or have you just trained your mindset at this point?

57:13I think at this point I've trained my mindset. It's not, it's not intimidating to me anymore. Never. You never get intimidated. Well, I mean, I get intimidated by probably the silliest things, but, you know, but being in a, in a room with a lot of men or, you know, being in a minority in a room is, is I have learned to be okay with that. I think earlier on in my career, the ways that I would cope is somebody gave me really good advice once, actually, they just said, you don't need to be the loudest person in the room. You don't need to speak until you really have something to say. And I think I operate very much that way.

57:52I'm a listener. I really, you learn so much by listening. It's a fantastic skill to have. It's a really good skill to have. And not many people have it. It's true. It took me a long time to learn to listen. I'm still learning. You're a great listener. That is, don't sell yourself short. No, but it's one of those things that if you are, you know, I'm trained or I'm hardwired to fill in the gaps because it would make me feel uncomfortable to be in silence. And sometimes you just need to take that moment and take it all in and just listen. It's a really underrated skill to be a great listener. And of course, when you're coming up in your career, you can feel insecure if you don't speak up.

58:31You think if you don't, you know, if you're not heard and you're not seen. And I don't think it's the case. I think you can really hold yourself in your power and you can wait for the right moment. I always say also never go into a room unprepared. You know, So the more prepared you are, the more confidence you're going to have and the greater ability you're going to have to find your moment to speak up and say something that, you know, can be said in one sentence as opposed to an hour long conversation of people talking over each other. What other advice would you offer to anyone that feels isolated in their professional environment?

59:07You know, either because they're a woman or they're a minority. Do you have specific advice that you offer to your teams? Yeah, I mean, I think it's about finding community, you know. And again, just knowing that when you're coming up in your career as a woman, as a woman of color or, you know, and anyone who is a minority, honestly, in any way, it is inevitable that you're going to be in spaces where you are one of one, where you feel other and you are othered. It's going to happen. And so building resilience on the outside, where do you find community? And then just bringing that strength into that room with you.

59:50You are married and a mother of two. Yes. And I read somewhere that you didn't take much of a maternity leave, which neither did I, actually. And while I love that I offer very good and generous maternity policies here, it's an interesting thing that I think so many successful women at some point felt like they had to return. Do you think that you would be where you are now? A, had you had children at a different time in your life? And B, had you taken much longer time off afterward? I think to answer the second question first, it would not have mattered to my career if I'd taken more time. Oh, I love that.

1:00:28Really? If I had been strong enough to hold my boundaries and say, nope, I'm not coming back. I'm going to take another month. And you just weren't strong enough at the time. I wasn't strong enough to do it. I felt too vulnerable. I felt, yeah, too weak to do that. And I don't regret things in general. You know, I did it. I got through it. you know I found other ways you know to sort of build build back first of all I love that you say out loud that you didn't have you didn't have the strength to be able to you know say no I'm going to take a longer time um which I think is really important the first the the other part of my question so it was do you do you feel like if you'd have come back earlier that would have been any different but the next part was when you choose to have children because I feel like for so many women, you're like, it's just never a right time.

1:01:17I shouldn't do it in my 20s. That's too soon. Then I'm going to get to like my mid thirties and that's like too late. And so like, you know, I just wonder about your timing. Was it purposeful? Would you have done anything differently? Well, my journey to be a mother was a difficult one and I had an operation that went horribly wrong and it really delayed our ability to have kids. And so I had my first son when I was 41 almost and my second when I was 43. Oh my goodness. So I am, I am a geriatric mother. That is the way they say that in this country. It's the official term. It is the official term.

1:01:52It's so demeaning. They need to rebrand that. We need a rebrand for sure. We really do. Can you come up with something? I will come up with something tomorrow. Let's do it now. Make a t-shirt and you know. Yeah. Let's leave it to me. That one from the record. And so what I would say is I have loved being a slightly older mother and bringing the perspective I have to the table of, you know, being, being, you know, a mother that, that I've experienced a lot. Also, it was at a point in my career, I certainly wasn't done, not by a long shot, but I felt like I could prioritize my kids and my family and my marriage and my career and everything else was, would kind of go by the wayside.

1:02:32You know, my social life changed a lot. You know, I don't do that thing of going away with my husband on our own very often. You know, I wish I did. Something's got to give. Something's got to give, right? You can't do it all. Not all at the same time. As you correctly say. So real pros and cons. Having said all that, so it's really worked for me to have my kids at the age that I've had them. And it really keeps you young. It keeps you on your toes. I've got two boys and, you know, they are relentless. And, you know, and it helps that my husband's five years younger than me. There's that. There's that.

1:03:03That was smart. strategic. Very strategic, very strategic. And he's very sporty and does all the things with them. But I do recommend to a lot of young women I work with to, you know, if they're on that career path, take advantage of, you know, some of the health benefits that exist now. Go freeze your eggs, go do all that. Really get on your, you know, plan your, if you want to have a family, plan your family in the way that you plan your career or the way that you plan anything else. And I didn't do that. Don't you think that we just need to be like having the conversation and not like putting it under the table?

1:03:42No, no. Yeah. We do need to be having that conversation because it does get exponentially harder. The older you get, that's a very real thing. And there's no shame in it and there's no taboo to it. You know, it's our body. We can do what we want. And you know, if that's something that you really feel like you're, you know, you're going to want to do. It's just a backup system. Yeah, it's just a backup system. But I love that you say plan it like you're planning your career moves, because it is one of those things that requires thought and timing and planning. And there's no shame to you being planful around it.

1:04:14You just have to figure it out. And again, if it is something that you really, really want, then it needs to be part of a plan. Yes. It can't be an afterthought. A hundred percent. I didn't have a plan. My husband and I were having so much fun. I mean, I had a plan, but even the best plans didn't work out. So there's that too. You might have a plan and it suddenly doesn't work. You know, I had my first two children naturally and it was so easy and so great. And you, you, you have this idea that you can choose your timing. And you know, when I decided I'd like a third child, turns out I couldn't choose my timing.

1:04:49And that, you know, was a major setback to me. That was something that was so, such an upheaval and so, you know, it's like shakes you to the core because once you've had two children naturally you never imagine it's going to be any different um but I think it is it's just about being honest with yourself about what you want and when you're going to be able to do that and being really uh forthright in your decisions yeah around it yeah I agree I I think so and there isn't really enough out there I don't think we talk about it enough I'm not honest enough right it right that's what happened and you know it's so interesting because I think that I'm you know I talk about everything and you know all the sorts of things with my girlfriends and even I hid for a little while that I was having IVF yeah there was something in my you know it's like I can do it all I do anything yeah and I was like yeah why can't I do it associated with it I think in our culture yeah which there shouldn't be no there just shouldn't be because once you do tell someone I remember telling and the three women I was with at the time were like me too me too me too and I was like what am I doing here you find your community you find your community and you often find they're right next to you yeah right there yeah which is which is very very interesting

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1:08:03What would you say to someone who aspires to a career like yours? What would be the advice that you would give? Oh my goodness. I mean, if they were just coming into the industry, I would say just, just jump in two feet first, go work anywhere, you know, just learn as much as you can, as fast as you can. Also be prepared that it could take you a couple of years. That transition, like I said earlier, from the transition from a desk, an assistant desk to a a junior executive desk is a hard one. Once you do it, you're kind of off and running. I would also say, be very fluid. You know, do you want to work for a tech company that's making content or do you want to work for a traditional media company?

1:08:49I had a great assistant, Juliet, for a number of years. And I hired her because when I said the cliched, I asked her the cliche question of where do you want to be five years from now? She said, the job I want hasn't been created. Oh, what an answer. I know. Juliet, yes. Juliet for the wind. Yes, Juliet for the wind. And she was right, by the way. Come on in. She was right. And she, and she's going to work in the future of your industry. That's right. But my follow-up question was, why do you want to come and work at a traditional media company then? Why don't you go to work for Netflix or Amazon or Apple, wherever?

1:09:24And she said, because I want to learn the systems and processes that underpin this industry because I don't think they're going to be gone in five minutes. What a winner. Where's Juliet now? She's out there. She's out and about. You should meet her. She's great. Go to Juliet. And I think she was right about that too. So I think, again, there's all sorts of, you know, early career biases. I want to do this. I want to do that. You know, just, again, learn as much as you can. I think there's a lot of young people actually leaving college and going into the agencies and doing the trainee program. Yes.

1:10:00That used to be a thing 20 years ago, 25 years ago. And I think it kind of tapered off. And now as I'm seeing a lot of that happen. Well, I can understand why. And I think the same is happening in fashion and in the creative industries, like going back into those kind of very early, I guess like the sort of like the dirty work, because at the end of the day in our businesses, it's the relationships that matter. it's again understanding those systems and processes that are the underpinning of the industry like you can't shortcut some right stuff yeah you got to go through it you've got to do it and that will help you if you're making i don't know ai generated content or whatever you're doing still need the relationship you still got to be able to pick up the phone and get you know shit done that's that's right no i think that's a really good point yeah yeah it really is i heard that you're a big rap music fan are you do you like abba and rap is that where we're going very Very eclectic.

1:10:54Very eclectic in my taste. Do you have like a hype song that you ever like as you're in the mirror? Is there something? Well, I mean, having made Straight Up Compton, I love Straight Up Compton. I love The Chronic. I love going back to the 90s. Me too. Oh, so good. You can't beat 90s rap. You can't beat it. No. I will listen to like a full Warren G album before anything that's been released in the last five years. Just so everybody can clear out where my preferences are. I did just go and see Kendrick and SZA though. That was a great show. I mean, that was so good. There you go. It was so good.

1:11:28I did go. And I also think that the reason I love Kendrick is because he feels like one of the old rappers. Oh, yeah. Like to me, it's like he has that like 90s sound. And yeah, and it just feels so like lovely and familiar. And I understand what he's saying because I'm an old cow now. I can't get any of the new rap. If you're called Lil anything, then I'm not feeling it. I'm sorry. out. I can't like that's for somebody else. I'm just like, let my kids deal with it. And how do you unwind and recharge? What are the things that you do to keep yourself energized and well and, and have some sense of balance?

1:12:07In the exercise realm category, I do Pilates. I could, I could have told you that you're a Pilates person. I do weights and I love to hike. Oh, that's, that's the privilege of living in LA. I know. Yeah. Like none of my English friends are like, where are you hiking? And I'm like, I hike like in, you know, I'll be in Beverly Hills and I can see a mountain. I'm not, I have no idea where I am, but it's the best thing ever. Oh, it's so great. It's so good for the soul. It just clears your head. Yes, it is. Yeah. We, we're fortunate enough to have a place in Ojai. Oh, it's so beautiful. We have the best hike right outside of our door.

1:12:41So I do that. And oddly, I find reading scripts really therapeutic. Really? Yeah. After all these years and I think it's because in my day-to-day job there are so many things pulling me away from that creative process that I love it I sit down and I've got the script there and I open it I might take a nap for 10 minutes just a 10 minute just a quick one and then and then I'm back to it getting connected into that process makes me it really I find it really calming well that's probably another reason why you're so successful because you've been able to somehow couple the business aspect and keep this creative part of your job, which you're clearly very, very good at.

1:13:24But the two things like go hand in hand. And I think that that's kind of quite unusual in a way that you could head a studio and still be at that point where you're like, I'm reading script. Yeah. I think if I lost that, it would be time to leave the field. Yeah. And it's nowhere near time for you to be leaving the field. So what is next for Donna Langley? I think I'm really focused on where our industry is going. We've been waiting for this seismic change to happen for, I think, almost a decade. With streaming now being so ubiquitous, it is here and it's not going anywhere. People are consuming their content, their user-generated content in such a different way.

1:14:10And then AI is going to come in and change the game completely. And I don't mean movies and TV shows are going to be made and written by AI. There's going to be checks and balances. And I'm a big believer in, you know, the human element is so important. It's our compassion and empathy that enables us to tell stories in the way that we do. And storytelling is, you know, as humanity, it's the one constant, right? I'm just excited to kind of see where it goes and look for any opportunity to continue doing the things that I really love doing and hold on to those. But don't hold on too tightly to the things that are maybe going to change and go away forever.

1:14:55That feels very, very sensible. That feels like a career that's set up for you to be doing this for the next 30, 40 years. I wish I could say, I'm going to go do this or I'm going to go do that. I really, I'm not uncertain. It just hasn't revealed itself yet. There is something there. There's something there that's going to be pretty exciting. But maybe that's part of the secret that you are so open to what's coming next and you're not scared of it. Rather, you're embracing it and you're just going to be ready for when it does come. Yeah, ready for whatever it is. Yeah. That's incredible. I love, I love that so much because it's a crazy time in all of our businesses.

1:15:30So if we can approach it with that idea of being open and being part of it, that's surely the way to go. That's the way to set yourself up for success. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. All right, I only have some rapid fire questions for you. Oh, good Lord. These are the ones I'm really bad at. On the spot. Okay. Okay, what is the first thing you do when you wake up? Make a cup of tea. Oh, I love that. What kind of tea do you like? English breakfast tea. Of course you do, darling. With milk and sugar. You do milk and sugar. Oh, yeah. The best. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed at night?

1:16:02Kiss my kids. I kiss my boys. They are now old enough that they stay up later than me. Yeah, I'm approaching that right now. Every now and again, I'm like, if you're staying, I'm going. My younger one is now wanting to go and see movies, the midnight showing, and expect me to pick him up afterwards. So I'm in that zone. Get an Uber. Get an Uber, exactly. You'll be fine. Figure it out. So, but yes, I love, you know, they still snuggle, which is really cute. Yeah. Take the snuggles while you can. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life? Continued success. Just continuing to work with the best of the best.

1:16:44And what are you currently aspiring for in your personal life? I think it's about staying grounded. There's so much going on in our world every day, right? And, you know, having kids, you think about them more than you think about yourself, right? It's just, I want, you know, I'm focused on what do they need to be thinking about as a career path? You know, what's the world going to look like for them? So, you know, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier. try and stay educated, stay up to speed on everything that's happening, but drown out the distractions and the noise and the hysteria as much as you can.

1:17:30So yeah, I just want to stay very, very grounded with my family. That's a perfect aspiration. What is a book that changed your life? Oh my gosh. I think it was Love in the Time of Cholera. Oh. I read it at a time where I was so open to everything. It's about unrequited love and it's the sexiest environment. And I loved it so much. I've read it so many times. You revisit? I revisit. I do with my favorite books. Yeah. And I think I also read it at a time where a lot of people were reading it at the same time. And so I met so many people and made friends by virtue of reading that book. That's so lovely.

1:18:10What's something that you valued when you were starting out your career that you no longer value? Oh, my goodness. Liz, that is a trick question. Isn't it? Yes. Everyone says that. You know, I think in my early days, I was much more ego-driven, you know, about having to get the credit for something or having to get the accolade for something. And over time, that's dissipated. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you'll get the pat on the shoulder. you have to learn to be okay with not getting the power on the shoulder. It's nice when you get it, but you don't always get it. That's some good advice right there.

1:18:53What's something that you value now that you didn't back then? I've come to really treasure my friendships and my close relationships, either professional or personal, in a way that when you're younger, people come and go, people move in and out of lives. You know, you're kind of here one minute and over there the next. And I really, I think it may be solidified after having kids and even through the pandemic, I just really treasure that people in my life who I know I can count on who are there for me. Does that include that lovely woman that moved to the US with you? Yes. Amazing. My bestie. Just how amazing that she's still your bestie.

1:19:33Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so cool. I'm so happy for you. And I just, yeah, I'm still so like just impressed by you and all of your success. And I'm so happy that I got to sit with you today and learn even more. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been so much fun.

1:19:55If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilead-Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Our producer is Kristin Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

1:20:31Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and WNE, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meekle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. or you can submit a question to me on my website emagreed.me. In football, value isn't just about making flashy plays. It's about consistency, durability, showing up.

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