On Negativity, Ambition, and Building a Serious Business (Tory Burch)

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25:54Did you recognize early on that you were capable of really running a global business? Was there doubt? Was there any imposter syndrome? In a startup, as you know, something happens every day. It's almost grace under pressure. And the more frenetic things get, I get more focused. And that's something I get from my father. My mom is a bit different. You've also said that you were a real risk taker. And I love, I want to dig into the risk thing, a little bit more? Because that's something that I think so many women struggle with, like actually taking big risks. Because if you don't, I mean, you would never have a brand like you have today.

26:31No, you're right. And I inherently am a risk taker. And even a personal, I used to go bungee jumping. I used to do all these crazy sporty things that were probably not safe. But I have an older brother who helped me build the brand and he was always dialing me back. So I'm the one who is always pushing and then he would be pulling. And so we had this tension and I think that was very important. And he's still with me today. Is he still involved today? Yes. I could never have done this company without him, Robert. And he really helped me. He came after the company was two years old. He sold his company and I convinced him to come on board and he's really helped me build it.

27:11When you look back, what do you think have been some of your personal biggest wins. The foundation has to be a win, but I think the company, I look at it as a second family. Our employees are, I'm great at picking great talent and great people and surrounding myself with incredible people. So that's a win. Have you always been good at that? I think I am good at that. And I think I've learned when I'm not good at it to react quicker. I haven't always done it quick enough. And I think, you know, I definitely try things and I've learned how to hire better and take my time more and not hire quickly.

27:49I think I never try to hire when I'm desperate for a role. That's a piece of advice I give to entrepreneurs, like take your time and get to know someone and get a lot of references. That's great advice. You really need a lot of references. It's amazing how many people don't reference. Well, that or believe in a culture, You know, our culture is really unique for our company. And that's not a culture that everyone fits into. And what is that culture? Well, it's one that is, I want a safe environment for people. I want people to be treated beautifully. I expect great work, but I want a great place to work.

28:24You have 5 ,000 employees, I think. Yeah. Nuts to even think about. So what are you like as a leader and how much have you learned and have to change and shift and adapt? I mean, I've learned everything, but I will say that one thing I don't do is I don't micromanage people. And I think I let them shine. And that's something I love to do. And it makes people feel great, but it's because it's real. And then you get their best work. So I think I'm patient. Not always. I'm definitely a perfectionist. It's not always easy, but it's always coming from a good place and out of respect. Leadership is something that no one teaches it to you.

29:03You know, you have to find your way and your style of leadership. How are you as a leader? I think a little bit similar to what you're saying. I have extremely high expectations, but both on myself and on everyone else. Right, but you'll do everything you're asking someone else to do. I'll do absolutely everything. And I think that there's a respect level because I've come up through the ranks. It's like I've done all the jobs. I understand exactly what I'm asking somebody for. So there's not that. I don't know about you, but I can work around the clock. and you have to be careful of that. That's literally, you took the words out of my mouth.

29:36I think that what I've had to be really careful of is expecting the same energy level that I have. And of course, as a founder, as the entrepreneur, as the name on the door, as you are, there is an expectation that you have that not everybody else has to share. But I think that that was harder for me to understand maybe in the early days. Yeah, it is hard. And you are working. It doesn't feel like work for you, but that's not always the case for people. They have a family, they have commitments. and that's something you have to remember. Yeah, and you have to balance that a little bit. You've said that women have to make decisions that men simply don't.

30:08What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, women have expectations whether they put it on themselves or societal. And I think whether it's being the caretaker, taking care of the children or their parents, and we certainly see that with COVID and our entrepreneurs, women are the first to give up a career. When I talk about ambition with women, I remember phrasing it saying, whatever ambition means to you, whether it's being a stay-at-home mom or a CEO, it's really about living on your own terms. And that's something that's really important. And that's how I look at being ambitious. But women just are held to different standards.

30:46And that's something that is not changing. Yeah. It has to change. I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, this, I love that you say whatever ambition means to you. The reason I called my book, Start With yourself was for exactly that reason, because you have to start with your ambition, your vision, how you want to live, what type of woman you want to be. And that's very different for different people. But I do think that we're still in a place, in a space for so many women where there are a series of thoughts or ideas that exist in the culture that do hold women back, that do make women have to keep themselves small.

31:22And even holding yourself back, right? And that's part of it. And I really want to talk more openly about that because I do think that, you know, sometimes maybe the reluctance to talk about money or the reluctance to come across as too ambitious or the reluctance to, you know, maybe exhibit some type of behavior that's not deemed so eloquent and elegant can be holding women back somewhat. What advice would you give to a woman who's been labeled as too ambitious? Well, I would say tune it out. That negativity is noise. And I'm not sure what that means. You know, I think that it's something that should be celebrated and it shouldn't be around gender.

32:05Ambition should be a personal thing and people should think about what ambition means to them. But it's not something to have a negative connotation around women. And that's something that has to be addressed. And I think it's a conversation that just needs to continue. When I started 20 years ago, there weren't a lot of role models for women. No, there really weren't, which is one of the main reasons I love to do this show, because I think the more we see examples like you in the culture, the more we can understand it and we can see ourselves in it and we can envisage it, but not if we don't have the conversation.

32:36I'm interested how motherhood shaped your approach to business and to leadership. I understand that there were probably trade-offs that you had to make, but what did that really look like in practice? I mean, one thing I would never trade off was being a good mom. And that was something I never thought I could start a business if that were to have to happen. But what does that look like to you, Tori? Because I feel like even that in of itself, like what it means to be a good mom, it's different for everybody. What was it for you and what did you need to do? Well, first of all, I was, you know, my husband was there, but not, you know, When we got divorced, I was raising my kids a lot on my own.

33:13So it was being at the doctor, going to a lacrosse game. It was also starting a company that allowed women to be able to do that and not penalize them for that. And so I thought, how do you build a culture around flexibility? How have you been able to do that? I have done it. And what I say is that as long as it gets done, I'm not really clocking how it gets done. Same. I think the same. And I think you create those conditions so much yourself. Like I leave the office every day at five. That's because I like to go home and I like to do bath and bedtime and story, but it creates the conditions for everybody else to leave at five.

33:47Yeah, and I used to do that, maybe not at five, but I would be a stickler for being at home. I would say if anything suffered, it was my social life. But I, listen - That's always what gives. That was fine with me. But I will say like being a mom is the joy of my life. And I often say I'm a survivor of raising three boys because it's hard. It's not always easy. and they look at me now, they're in their 20s and they apologize for what they put me through. I mean, three boys in New York City, you can imagine. And they're three little like torturers. They used to bully me. And so, but I'm tough. Because you're so dinky and they're - They're giant, but I'm very tough.

34:22So I was a tough mom. And I think - Yes, very tough. And when you say like a tough mom, like you had to have rules and a schedule, like what do you mean? I had rules. I, you know, was on them. I was like a investigator. Yeah. So just to keep everybody in check. Keep everybody in check. Do you feel like there were sacrifices that you made because of the children in the business? You know, I think I managed and I'm not sure if I feel that it was a sacrifice. I think I managed around. I guess the only thing that was sacrificed is my sleep. I still don't sleep. I would, you know, get the kids handled and put to bed and then start work.

35:03But it was enjoyable. I'm not complaining. But at the same time, I will say I can turn it off very easily too. So I have a lot of outside passions that I love. When you speak to women that are, you know, perhaps debating starting something or leaving a job, having a family, when to do it, like what is the advice that you give? I tell them that they have to do what's right for them. And starting a family is something that a lot of women feel the need to do. And so for me, I don't want women to have to make that choice of leaving a job because of that. So that's something that I question whether they're at the right working environment, if they feel that they have to do that.

35:47That's a big conversation we have. Are you working in the right place? Is that something? Are you going to feel like you're going to be left behind? A lot of attorneys, a lot of bankers, they feel like if they have a child, it's over for them from scaling. Yeah. Yeah. I see that so much. Do you think that the idea of what it means to be a mother or a parent has changed in like the last 20 years? Like when you see social media and you think about what it means to be a mother right now, do you see big differences at all? I think people are deciding whether they want to have children in a different way.

36:23And I see a lot of people choosing not to as well. They don't feel like they can do that. Parenting hasn't changed that much. The expectations on parenting has changed enormously. I think when we're watching people on social media kind of do insane things around their children, I don't know, like making a really like elaborate packed lunch, for example, you know, the pressure and that's just like a small thing. The perfection of it all. That level of like, okay, like I'm just going to over-parent the situation. I'm going to create these insane schedules and these insane lunches. In a way, I'm glad I miss that.

36:58I mean, yeah, because I think that women do absorb that. They do look in their feeds and think that that's... And they feel they're inadequate. Absolutely. And it's not real. It's not real. It's not real. I think there are many ways to come into parenting. And my point of view is that I don't think children need nearly as much as we might think they do. Well, we know that the whole concept of a helicopter mom is a real thing. And so I think kids, I used to entertain myself outside in a country. Oh yeah, we were left to our own devices. Yeah, I mean - If there was an apple in the house, my mom was like, they'll be fine.

37:35But I remember during COVID, my boys were enjoying Miami a little too much. So I sent them to work with Navy SEALs in North Carolina. No, you didn't. You really are a tough mom. It is the best decision. If they wanted a bath, they had to build it. It was like, we were all taking it easy. No, but they were going out to parties in Miami during COVID. You're like, no, no. This is over. You're like, that is not what we're doing. Was that a hard time for you in the business? Oh my God. I mean. It was brutal. It was brutal, right? It was so brutal. If you think about 5 ,000 employees, you think about 400, well, at that point, 375 stores shut.

38:13We had no visibility on when they would open, if they would open. And we had to pay healthcare. And so I was trying to figure out how do we do the payroll so people could get healthcare. And it was very real because that March, someone very close to me that had worked with me for 15 years, I was in a meeting with her on Friday and on Monday she was dead. And it was from COVID. And I just knew she hadn't come to a meeting and I was really worried about her. And that it was four days after I was with her and she, anyway. So we knew it was incredibly serious and it was incredibly tough. How does Tory cope in a crisis?

38:53Well, I get better in a crisis. I don't want to say that because I don't want to keep them coming. But I do get pretty, I get better and more focused in a crisis. I think I was also trying to help our industry and working with the government and trying to get payroll for like, and getting our industry to be considered as big as the food industry or the airline industry because we're talking about over 14 million jobs. Most people during COVID kind of went into a hole and was like, okay, let me just like see when this can go away. But you're out there fighting for your industry, having bigger conversations, trying to expand into new spaces.

39:30I think the same with the foundation. It's so much bigger than the business and the brand in so many ways in terms of like really changing people's lives. Where does that come from? Being able to have a company that can be responsible for positive change is something that is very inspiring to me. That's why I started our company, is not only to be financially independent because that was part of it, but it was also how can we impact as many people as we possibly can. And I would say that came from me since I was a very little girl. I've always wanted to help people. I grew up in a kind of crazy environment of my parents taking so many different kinds of people in, never knowing who was going to be at the dinner table, like having a kennel of German shepherds.

40:17We had 50 shepherds. My parents would have all these kind of crazy people come. And so I just saw a lot of interesting, different kind of people. And I also saw a lot of people who struggled. My little brother who we adopted, he came with his mother. She had schizophrenia. So I saw a lot of the hardship of mental illness and what that meant. And so I've always wanted to give back. And I thought if the company could do that, that's such a win. It's such a win for the bottom line also.

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43:07I'm really interested in this subject because I think it's way more prevalent amongst female founders and entrepreneurs than men, that they want to include some type of community impact sentiment within their brand. And I always think about that as being an incredible thing to do when you can do it, when the business has the roots, the profit, the infrastructure to be able to handle it. How did you introduce that to your brand? And what do you think about that more generally? Yeah. I mean, well, it was my business plan from day one. So for me, that was something that was in my head. I think it was a long conversation of getting people to understand it and believe in it.

43:46And also, I was really worried when I first launched the foundation, started the foundation in 2009. I never wanted it to be perceived as marketing in any way. So I didn't really talk about it. And I wanted the work to start speaking for itself. We started with mentor events where I would have 10 incredible people in business and I'd invite 100 women entrepreneurs. And it was like speed dating for the night. And it was really valuable, just some of the gems or lessons they learned. And so that was the beginning. But there was a lot of negativity. That's one thing we haven't touched on. There's so many articles written that were just incredibly negative.

44:25Did that get to you? Yeah, of course it did. I think one thing my mom always said is don't read it. And so I really don't read a lot of it because it was very hurtful. It was a vanity project. It was the foundation. Why do you need to work? Like there's goes back to perception and reality. We didn't have a lot of money. Everyone thought we did, but that's not the reality of what it was. So when we made an investment into our company, it was a big deal for us. So there were so many different things I was dealing with. Did you ever get angry about that? How do you react when you read things about yourself and when the perception's so strong?

45:02I got used to it. I don't know that I got angry. I would say I would get hurt for a minute and then I'd move on. I'm a good recoverer. I don't, I say to my kids, it's very freeing to let things go. I'm very good at letting things go and I don't hold things. Were you always like that? Always like that. I can't have the negativity around me. It's not a place I feel comfortable. I mean, there was a moment when your brand faced a fair bit of criticism, changing consumer sentiment. I wonder how you navigated that period. You know, it's funny. Like everyone says you're back and you have this, as they've used so many different words to describe our reinvention and our evolution.

45:43I said to my boys, I'm like, I didn't know I went anywhere. She's like, what? Listen, I had this idea. Like I realized that the creative process was something I was so passionate about in the beginning. and so involved in. As I started building the business, the CEO role is something that really overtook me. And so I was the CEO for 14 years. Building a company and running, managing a company, what I realized is that I was missing what I was really passionate about. And that was the design and creativity. So it's a big decision though. And one that I find specifically for female founders can really often elude that they either don't leave at the right time and assume a new position or they don't think that they're right to be the CEO.

46:31Will you just talk to me a little bit more about what that time looked like? Because I'm assuming when it's your name on the door, you just assume the identity as the CEO. But 14 years in, you could afford it to bring somebody else in. I could have, but it was like, I just became it because it was, I was doing it. I, again, had a great team of people. So that said, I did try to hire a co-CEO at one point, which did not work out. I remember. Yeah. We all read about it. Yeah. I'm sure everything has been written about in one way or another. But, you know, listen, I tried and it was four years of trying to figure out, knowing that this wasn't my skill set.

47:08Did I learn on the job? And was, am I proud of what we built? A hundred percent. But to have Pierre Eve come and I had to marry him to get him to do that. You were like, hey, I've got a good idea. I promise that wasn't my idea from the beginning. He was going to invest in our brand at LVMH. And then we realized that maybe we had other intentions. I mean, just for anybody who doesn't know and who doesn't come from fashion, Pierre-Yves is your partner, but also one of the most sought after and influential fashion executives on the planet. And one of the most competent and brilliant people came from LVMH.

47:42And so like the dream of all dream CEOs for any brand, I would say. Right, and I said that to my board. I'm like, this is not a favor. This is a present to all of you. It's a gift to you guys. So it's like for him to actually want to do this. Yeah, that's a big deal. I think it was a huge deal. So for me, it was a given that he is this expert that I struggled with to, I'm sorry, implementing SAP and tax structures and all the things that you have to do is not what I'm passionate about. But he is so strategic. And what's brilliant about Puriev is he has this brilliance in business, but he's also a creative talent.

48:20talent and he understands creative people. But you know, for 14 years, you really did do it. And I'm interested in those four years when you brought somebody else in, was that because you felt like you no longer wanted the role or you felt like you weren't living up to it? I felt like it was the scale of the business was getting bigger and bigger. And I think one of the things that I have learned is that it's equally as important to leave at the right time. And And certainly I gave up the CEO, but I'm much more into the company than I've ever been right now. So I was certainly not leaving, but I was pivoting and changing to sort of match my strengths.

48:59And that was super important. And I think people need to learn that women and men. I don't think that's just women. No, I think everybody needs to know that. What was the first big creative decision you made after stepping down as this CEO? Well, it was during COVID. So I did sort of this palate cleanser and it was the shaker collection. So I grew up in sort of a Quaker and went to Quaker schools. And so the concept of the Shaker Museum and the minimalist, for me, that was just like a great way to start again and to sort of rethink everything and not lose sight of our customer and lose sight of the beautiful things that we've built, but also reinvent everything that we had done.

49:37So whether it was a ballet flat, I wanted to look at that ballet flat and redesign it, but make it better. and I felt that I had the expertise now to do that. Yeah, and also the headspace. I was thinking about headspace earlier today because what I realized is that first 14 years, I had so much chaos and so much going on, whether it was personal, whether it was the company growth, I didn't have time to think properly. So in a way, the positive of COVID, which obviously there were so many negatives, but the positive was it gave me a chance to reset and actually have time to think. And that's something that I really value.

50:15How did your identity as a founder change after stepping back out of the CEO role? I mean, it didn't change. I think a lot of women asked me if that was a difficult decision because there's so few women CEOs. I have to say it was the easiest decision I've ever made. I do love the fact that I was a CEO and that's a wonderful thing. And I want women to be CEOs if that's what they choose. But it also has to be the right fit and you have to be what's right for the business at that time. Yeah, and it's a hard job. It's hard. Well, it's impossible to do creative and run the business. I think it's completely impossible.

50:55I also think that you don't have to be the CEO to be the one calling the shots. No, and that's exactly it. Which I don't know that a lot of people, specifically female founders, understand. Well, it's interesting because a lot of people ask me how I've kept control of the company. And that's something that has been very important to me, that corporate governance and just roles and responsibilities and decisions. And we wouldn't have had to bring in private equity because we did the fundraise and then we were profitable in our second year. And the company profits built the company. Why I needed to bring in private equity is because in my divorce, Chris got 50 % of the company.

51:35And so I needed to get him out of the company. He wanted to get out. You had to buy him out. I had to buy him out. And that's why we ended up bringing private equity in. Did you end up doing a good deal when you bought him out? We did. It depends on which time. It's been different iterations, but I picked two good partners that are still with us today. And I think private equity is, it's a different model. You know, I want to build a brand that has longevity. I've always wanted to be the best brand, not the biggest brand. And I knew that being a patient brand sometimes wouldn't be easy for investors.

52:11But I wanted to make decisions when I felt it was the right time, not just to build for growth's sake. I wanted to build for longevity. Was it the right decision both for you and for the company to buy Chris out? Yes. And to set up a proper board. Right. Was it the right decision to bring on the private equity partners? It was. And I would say no matter what, when private equity says they're long-term, it's seven years. Our private equity partners have been in 13. But that's because of COVID and all the other things. Yeah, fair enough. That slows everything down a little bit. What did you learn about private equity that you wish you'd have known?

52:49I don't want this to sound like a negative, but they're not operators of businesses. And that's probably the biggest thing that I can take away. They're great at buying businesses and selling them, but they're not in the weeds operating businesses. Yeah. And I just don't know that that's always implicitly understood. Were there ever any regrets about having your name as the company name? Well, you know, as I said, I didn't want to use my name. So I launched - Such a good name though. Well, I launched with a different name. It was a terrible name in retrospect. What was the name? It was Tori by TRB.

53:20So bad. And do you know someone named Kenny J. Lane? Do you know who he is? Yes. Oh my goodness. I don't know him personally, but I know who that - Okay, well, He takes me out to lunch and he said, you need to change your terrible name of your company. What a great friend. And he said, everyone's calling it Tory Burch. Tory by TRB is the worst name. And he was so right. There's so many lessons that I look back and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I did that. I mean, first of all, amazing that he said it and amazing that you listened. I listened right away. Because you can really hold on to those things.

53:51I wasn't attached. Good American was called Grace in the beginning. Oh, it was? Yeah, absolutely. And my wonderful partner was like, I just, I love everything about this, but I don't like the name. I was like, I'll find another name. Just like, let's do this. But as soon as they said that, did you agree? Immediately. Because to me, it was a working. I needed to create something and mock something up. And that was just, it was a name that weirdly enough, we'd had another company. And so I owned that name. So I was like, I can legitimately, if I need to launch something, I can use this name. And for whatever reason, it wasn't right for a company.

54:24I mean, I love being pointed, when people point things out because you're so busy doing so many things that sometimes someone needs to say something and you're like, of course. You can take the feedback. It feels like you're extremely resilient. Well, I'm an information gatherer and I'd like to hear people's feedback. I don't always take it and agree with it, but I love to get it.

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56:38how do you go about gathering information when you have a big decision to make what does it look like in practice i mean i talk to our team i talk to my family i mean my family is super supportive but i think at the end of the day you have to go with your instinct and instinct is has been critical for me and i'm not sure where that comes from i think a lot of women have great instinct and they need to listen to it more. I feel like the world sees this kind of like billion dollar fashion icon. How do you see yourself? Well, not like that. I don't even think about that. But you must think about the success you've had from where you started, like even if it's not in the monetary terms.

57:15I mean, it's a really big globally known brand. You know, it's one of the ones where we could flash your logo and people would be like, sorry, bitch. Yeah. And it's not something that I think a lot about. So when you say that, yeah, it's incredible. I'm so, I guess, grateful because it's exciting and I love it, but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it like that. What I do think about is how can I really change the dynamic for people? And that's something that really is inspiring to me. When I think about those early investors, a lot of them didn't have any money and they put in$10 ,000 and it changed their life.

57:51And that 10 ,000 allowed them to put their children through college. I remember - What a great feeling. To me, there's nothing that's better than that. If I can... There is nothing better than that. There's nothing better than that. And I talk to my kids a lot about that. When you can move the needle and help either someone look at something a bit differently, change a dynamic, have women understand that the power is within them. And that's something that I've learned. I remember hearing a couple of people I admire speak, and I used to talk about women's empowerment. and what they said is that it's not like you're bestowing it upon them.

58:27And I said, you're absolutely right. They have it. So we want to make sure they understand that they have it within them and how do we help them bring it to fruition? It's just so much amazing work that you do, which kind of brings me to your foundation because it's anything but some marketing. I mean, it's such a hugely impactful foundation that you have. The best kept secret, which we don't want to be anymore. No, and nor do I think that you should be. But will you just talk a little bit about the scale of that operation, what you're actually doing? Because I think it will be so interesting to an audience of people, specifically those that are listening to this show.

59:04Well, we started it, the company was 2004, and then the foundation was 2009. And so since then, we have built a community of incredible women across the United States. We definitely talk to women beyond the United States, but it's really about the U.S. that we focus. And it's about community. It's about capital and education. And so we have fellowship programs. We now have just announced another fellowship program where we take 120 entrepreneurs a year, and it's an extensive year of mentorship, of connectivity, of giving them a small grant, of creating a community. And when we see entrepreneurs reach a million dollars in revenue, we see a sustainable business.

59:50So to me, that is exciting. When you meet these women, they are so exceptional and it's inspiring. I mean, it's as inspiring for my team because a lot of our team are mentors as it is for the entrepreneurs. And we see a community of people that's growing and we want to reach as many people as we can because we're just about to reach another phase of our partnership with Bank of America. Amazing. And I can't wait. I can't wait to talk to you about this because it's not ready yet, but we, they committed a hundred million dollars to us, which we gave out and which that was done. So now I set up a meeting with Brian Moynihan and I said, but I want real impact and scale.

1:00:32You're like, and so a hundred million was great. Having said that, but so they're committed and they're doing amazing work and collectively what we could do together is pretty extraordinary. So that is going to be a very exciting new chapter, which I hope to announce something at this foundation breakfast, which we're about to have. But, you know, we also have free seminars on education. Thousands of people have written business plans, but we focus on after a business has been started and we have committed to reaching a billion dollars by 2030 to add to the economy through our entrepreneurs. So I think - Which is a really audacious goal.

1:01:11It's an audacious goal. We're at about$240 million right now, but we can do it and they can do it. No, no doubt. And I think it's so important. You know, again, we hear so many people talk about women supporting women, but talk about putting your money where your mouth is, both in that company money, but, you know, your impact, your relationships, it's really unbelievably impressive. And I think any women that have ever been touched by the foundation, they just, you know, it's what an amazing thing that you've created. What an amazing platform. And it seems to me like it's just going to go from strength to strength and touch even more founders.

1:01:49Well, women are the answer. And when I look at what's happening in the chaotic world that we live in, a lot of this would be solved if women were thinking it through. And that's how I really feel. Tori, you are breaching to the converted over here. I think a lot of men feel that way as well. I think a lot of men feel that way. And that's why it's so important to have these conversations and to talk about women and power and money because the two things are really inextricably linked. We are desperate right now in the world for more women in positions of power. To me, it's not debatable. It's not a conversation.

1:02:24It's absolutely what we need. You know, I look at the women that we work with and I mentioned they're inspiring. They often are single moms. They have two or three jobs. They're investing into the communities. They're great investments. They're paying back their loans at a 98 % rate. And then venture capital is going down. So there's an equation that's not adding up. Yes. And more women are starting companies because structurally the workforce doesn't work for women. I was looking at a statistic, I think just yesterday, that was 500 ,000 women have dropped out of the workforce. We aren't setting women up to succeed.

1:03:02and it's so much more simple than we think. So much more simple. But I think just, again, having the conversation, showing women what's possible, being a model for that possibility, that's what's really important because you can't be what you don't see. Well, you started out, you were looking at me. I promise you if I can do it, anyone could do it. If someone asked me 24 years ago what I would be doing today, I would have had no idea. You wouldn't? No. I mean, that's so insane to me. What do you even say? What advice do you give to somebody who's right at the beginning of their journey? I mean, I go back to a lot of things that my mom and dad said to me is that, you know, if you work hard, if you have a unique idea, if you have resilience and tenacity and grit and all these things that we talk about, but really you have to, you have to love what you do and you have to find that out.

1:03:53I think sometimes it takes people time to know and how to identify themselves. I was thinking about your book and you knew exactly what you wanted. I don't know that I knew exactly what I wanted. I think it became this iterative process. And then I realized what I wanted. I think for most people, it's like that. But even with me, I had an idea that I wanted to be in the fashion space. But I think like life happens in seasons. You don't get, you know, I worked so many jobs that were so outside of the realms of the things that I really love. What were some of the jobs? Oh, you know, I worked, the worst one was fashion show production, because in my head, I was going to be at the shows.

1:04:31In reality, you are backstage. You don't see the show. You work for three months on something that's like up and down in 20 seconds. And you're not even invited to the after party. I was like, this is the worst job ever. Okay, I had one worse. I was a sample manager. Oh, yeah. I mean, in a PR agency. I mean, I did that. I packed those boxes. And it's just, you see the clothes, you see the things and you're like, I had this part of that. Like, that's it. I remember dressing a celebrity once and she wouldn't look at me. She was looking in the mirror the whole time at herself. And she was like, it was just, you know, these things add a little.

1:05:08But it's part of it. It is. Do you know what? That's it. I mean, it adds a little to you and you learn so much. I went all around London doing work experience of things that I just knew I didn't want to do. And every job might not be the perfect job, but you take something from it. You're going to take something from it. And that's what I say to a lot of young girls today and even young men is that make it entrepreneurial. Maybe you're not an entrepreneur. You know, I went to speak at Stanford and the class overwhelmingly said they wanted to be entrepreneurs, which I found really interesting because what they're not saying is, I have found this company that I'm passionate about.

1:05:43It's really that they have this mindset of just being an entrepreneur. It's really true. It's kind of interesting. But you can be entrepreneurial in a corporate job, right? You can have an entrepreneurial mindset and you can be a big thinker and you can be somebody that thinks outside the box and is a self-starter and gets things done. I always felt like I was that when I was being paid a salary, you know? So I feel like there's a lot of places to be entrepreneurial. What do you think you're still trying to figure out? Well, I still am trying to figure out a lot. I think, you know, as I mentioned, as you sit and rethink a company, just aesthetically and not leaving who you are.

1:06:19So to me, it's like a fine balance of evolution, kind of reinvention, but not leaving the essence of who you are. is kind of finding that balance. I think everyone's a bit of a work in progress. I don't think I'll ever have figured anything out. I think being intellectually curious and always trying to just keep your empathy and understand how other people are feeling and the world around us. If I'm struggling, I know a lot of people are struggling right now. So how do you show up and be a good partner, listener, boss, friend, everything to people when there's so much chaos. So that's something I think a lot about is how do you lessen the blow?

1:07:02Yeah. What do you still aspire to? Well, I think I aspire, I look at my children and as I said, we've been through a lot to see them be entrepreneurs themselves. My twin started a company in Jakarta called Butter Baby. When you tell me this, I love this. It is so exciting to see them working so hard and my son, Henry and Nick, and then my son, Sawyer, and to see my stepdaughters all working and thriving, I guess I aspire to through them because it makes me super happy. I mean, I'm sure your mom said this to you, you're as happy as your least happy child. It is so incredibly true. When my kids are thriving and doing well, I am great.

1:07:43I can deal with anything. And so it makes life a lot easier. Like all the blows that happen, whether it's the stuff happening in work or the tariffs or the Middle East, all these things that are so hard to comprehend, to understand. But when your family is doing well, that helps you be able to deal with it. I mean, that's all you can hope for. Yeah. Okay, I just have a few rapid fire for you. What is the first thing you do in the morning? Walk my dogs and call my mom. Love that. Every day. Yes. That's the best. And if I don't, I hear about it. And what's the last thing you do at night? Same. Really?

1:08:21Do you speak to your mom twice a day? I do. Oh my goodness. That's just the most adorable, delightful thing ever. Do you speak to your kids all the time as well? I try to. You're one of those families. I try to tell them how I speak to my mom. Yeah, you're like, call me. What's the best piece of business advice that you've ignored? Don't think of business and purpose in the same sentence. It's a good one. You're packing for vacation. Your suitcase is full. What are the two clothing items that you aren't leaving without? Oh, gosh. Okay, my Tori sports sweatpants. And, oh, that's really hard. I have to think about that.

1:08:59I guess a cashmere sweater. I like hanging out. I was going to say, you're on a very casual holiday for you. I know, that's when I hang out in the room. I love it. And she's staying in the room. What's one thing every female founder needs to hear before she starts? Don't sell yourself short and believe in yourself and understand you have the power within. and what is a book that changed your life i have to say one of the most beautiful books that i've ever read is a hundred years of solitude and for me i've read it twice and it's just about perception reality time meaning and generational repetition and sort of how things happen or not happen and chance and magic and mystery that is definitely one that has to go on our listeners reading this Tori, thank you so much.

1:09:50You're wonderful. That was incredible. Thank you.

1:09:55If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Executive producer, Ashley McShann, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Lagrasso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

1:10:31Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

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