The Aspire Playbook: Mark Cuban’s Day-1 Blueprint for Startup Success and How AI is Changing Entrepreneurship Forever

22:45So I went to a local radio station, KLIF, and literally we connected a eight hour VCR to their board, right? And took the output of the radio and recorded it on eight hour VCR tapes, took it back to my house, encoded it, put it, then put it on our website, audionet.com. And I would go on all these forums and prodigy and CompuServe and the internet. And I would say, Hey, if you live in Dallas and you're, if you're from Dallas and you want to know about Dallas sports and Dallas news, you have to do all these five steps, but then you can do it. And then first day, you know, 10 people next day, a hundred people next month, a thousand people.

23:28And then we started adding more and more radio stations. And then, you know, probably six months later, we were able to do live. Did you know that that was going to change your life? Were you like, this is the beginning? Yes. Cause I remember having a meeting with everybody and saying, if this works the way I think it'll work, this company's worth$5 billion. You knew that. Without any doubt in my mind, because it changed everything. And everybody thought I was a moron, right? Dude, we'll turn on the television. Dude, I just have to turn on the radio. But I'm like, in an office, you can't just do that.

23:58Like, there's no televisions here. There's no radios. Well, it's different now. But back then, there weren't. And so it was the only media device on your desktop. And they had more bandwidth. So like, people would listen to Cubs games, People would listen to soccer, football from overseas, right? It was the only way they can get it. And back then the laws were different. So I could just walk into Best Buy and buy 200 CDs and encode them and just put it on our jukebox. And people could listen to everything. We had, you know, 400 plus radio stations. We played Christmas music on loop all year long.

24:32I mean, just all the stuff that you see on Spotify. And then we got to video, all the stuff you see on YouTube. we were doing in 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 until we sold to Yahoo in 2000. Which is insane. The idea that you've sold that company to Yahoo for how much? $5.7 billion. So you were right. This is worth$5 billion. Yeah. It really was. It turned out, yeah. You're like, ka-ching. Yeah, ka-ching. Amazing. Did you have a bunch of partners at that point? Well, we had gone public. Right. And so we went public in July of 1998. And at the time, the broadcast.com IPO was the biggest first day leap in the history of the stock market, which was so cool.

25:11That's so cool. Because like the minute we went public and then the stock market closed and it went from$18 up to 72 and then finished at 62.75. And all of a sudden, like I was worth$300 million. So we went straight to a bar and we turned on. Oh, yeah. And so we had them turn on like CNN and all the networks. and every time they mentioned broadcast.com and the IPO, we took a shot. And we couldn't see. Oh, my God. You were completely smashed. And then we had to get back to work the next day because, like, I told everybody. Yeah, well, you've got to keep that stock price rising. Right. All these people trusted us.

25:46Amazing. You know, they put their hard-earned money in. It worked out. Yeah. So take me inside that Yahoo deal. Like, what did you learn? What did it teach you? Well, there's a bunch of pieces there, right? we brought them in as an investor for only a million dollars, like right after the IPO. A million dollars. That was it. Yeah, it was a tiny smidgen for the company. But we wanted access to the Yahoo website. And we just wanted the connection. So that was like a valuable part. It wasn't necessarily about the finance. No, no, it wasn't a financial investor. It was strategic. Yeah. And so they were strategic investor.

26:21And then all of a sudden, you know, as our, are, you know, people that, oh, they just did internet radio. No, like we invented all these things that were different and I wish I'd gotten patents. Um, yeah, it just kills me because I, it's so funny because I posted it on social. Um, I found an old letter that, um, our patent attorney had written and said, here's all the patents you can apply for. And back then I'm like, we're too busy. We're getting ready to sell the company. And like everything that happens. Which is so crazy because whenever I hear this story about you, like you only think about the success.

26:53You only think about, well, he built this company, put side things together, saw things nobody else saw. It probably is worth$10 trillion. Like the whole - Does that haunt you? Does that bother you at all? No, because I'm really well off, so I'm okay. You're like, I'm good. There's a lot of shit I've missed along the way that I have more money, and I'm good. You're good. In some respects, it pisses me off because people just think it was internet radio. Yeah. Right? And if I'd gotten all these guys - You don't get the credit that you should have for everything that came out of that Yeah, we started the whole thing.

27:22I mean, like, literally, if Yahoo hadn't screwed it up, there'd be no Spotify, there'd be no YouTube. But Mark, was it really about the time, like you not being able to actually, like, go out and get those patterns? Or did you actually understand what you were creating at that point? I knew exactly what we were creating and the value for sure. But you just couldn't go out and do it. Because we were different than everybody else. We were kicking everybody's ass. I mean, we were a top 10 website, literally. Yeah, I mean, we had millions of users, millions of people were streaming like you know we were you know doing video online that nobody else could do or had done it was it was fun how big was the company how many people at that point 330 yeah but you have to focus right even with 300 people it's like you've got your things that you're trying to achieve yeah and you have to focus and double down on those things you didn't have time to go out and think no it wasn't about all the esoteric stuff yeah right it was like we have to win it's a competitive business and so we have to stay focused on being the best streamer you know, whatever the type of content, but things like, you know, inserted ads, things like, you know, pop up video ads in front of content, all these things that people do today, we were doing, and it's been 30 fucking years.

28:32It's insane. It actually is insane to even think about. So you actually, like there's so much of what we take for granted now that you guys just invented at that point. I can't even believe that. Um, I wonder, so when you get this Yahoo deal, did it turn out as you had expected? No. I mean, so two pieces. One, we sold in stock, right? Which is not cash, as you know. No, it's not. No, it's not. Because back then in the internet stock market, stocks were going up, stocks were going down, stocks were going up. And I'm like, I'm a billionaire, you know? I like it. And I don't want to risk it. I don't need more money.

29:09I need to protect what I got. And so I did this thing called a collar where I sold out of the money calls on the stock that we got from Yahoo on Yahoo stock. And I bought puts to protect the downside from the money I got. Explain that for explain that really slowly for us that might not understand it. So a share of collar. Yeah. OK. Share of stock. We got Yahoo stock and we sold what is known as calls. Call on a share of stock gives somebody that you sell it to the right to buy that share of stock. at whatever the price. Like a predetermined price down the road. So if Yahoo stock was a hundred and I sold it, you can buy this at 120 and you pay me some amount of money for that.

29:50That's selling a call. And I took that money and I bought a put, which is the opposite side. It protects the downside. It says if Yahoo stock falls below the level I bought the hundred, you have to buy it from me at that price, you know? And I was like, yeah. You're such a clever dick. Yeah, it crashed. Of course it crashed. This is it. The whole, you know, internet stock, you know, bubble burst. And so I actually ended up making some more money of that. So that was part one. That worked out fine. But then Yahoo, you know, when that internet stock bubble burst, Yahoo's board of directors just freaked out because their stock had gone from hundreds to tens, you know, or less.

30:31And they're like, okay, we got to cut expenses. And so the streaming side was, you know, huge mistake, but that's part of what they cut. Wow. Talk to me about your relationship to money as a founder, because I just feel like a founder's journey is so uneven. It's like, you've got nothing, you've got nothing, you've got nothing, then hopefully you get something and maybe it's too much and you don't know what to do with it. Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. Like my attitude is if you're happy when you're broke, you'll be happy when you're rich. If you were miserable when you were broke, there's no amount of money that's going to change you from being miserable.

31:03And so, you know, when I was sleeping on the floor, I still was having fun, you know, You strike me as the type of guy that was broke and happy. Yes, I was. I wasn't happy to be broke. You're just happier now. I wasn't happy to be broke. That's different. Right? But I was going to have fun no matter what. And so, you know, when I sold Micro Solutions, I ended up with like$2 million. And I was 29 years old, give or take. And so I bought a lifetime pass on American Airlines for$125 ,000. That's a great deal. Oh, my God. It's a great deal. And my only mission, because in my mind, I was retired. and my only mission at 29 at 29 yeah my only mission in life was to party like a rock star because i only had to do i had this card that i could walk up to american airlines and just show it and i was actually living in la not far from here and um i was like okay i'd go out to the clubs and find a new friend let's go to vegas let's go to london let's go wherever and you used it oh did you get your money's worth out there 125 oh yes i did and it was lifetime past Please tell me you can't just still use that now.

32:08I could, but I gave it to my dad. And when my dad passed, I gave it to a friend. Oh, that's so lovely. That's so you, Mark, to do that. But I'm sure you got your use out of it in the interim. Oh, my God. So back to the money. So you get$2 million when you're about 29. The next big chunk of money doesn't come until you've sold. Well, no, not right. So I took that$2 million. And initially, I told my stockbroker, who was a buddy of mine, I want you to invest like a 60-year-old. I want you to put it in bonds because I want to live off of this. Interest rates were higher. I want to live off of this for a while.

32:39You had a sense, though, that$2 million, you'd kind of made it at that point? Well, yes. Or you knew you were going to make loads more money in your mind? No, I didn't. I didn't. I was willing to live like a student for a long time. But what came along was I talked to my broker, and he would ask me all these questions about stuff I knew because of microsolutions. And then I'd see these people who worked, it was Goldman Sachs, worked for Goldman Sachs, go on CNBC or whatever it was back then. and say exactly what I said. And the stock would go up or down. And my buddy was like, you know this stuff better than our guys do.

33:11You should be buying and selling these stocks. So I'm like, okay, I will. And I just crushed it. I mean, crushed it. I turned that 2 million. I don't even know what it ended up being 15, 20 million. Right. And it was just like, okay. And then we started broadcast and that allowed me to keep going. How do you think that your relationship with money shaped your early decisions as an entrepreneur? Oh, 100%. I was that kid that drove around and looked at the big houses and listened to motivational tapes in the car. I used to drive around looking at all the big houses. That was such a thing for me.

33:47Yes, 100%. I'm like, what do these people do? How did they get there? What is it that they have that I don't? What is their motivation? And that was my motivation. And so I always wanted to make more money, but I always wanted to use my time first, right? Time was the most valuable asset. That's kind of what my dad and my parents taught me. Because, you know, if you're grinding the same job and, you know, not really making money, you know, my dad never made more than$40 ,000 and you're stuck. you know you can live a great life it's not like you can't really enjoy your life and have a great family like we did but you know there were things we couldn't do you know things you know that hey dad can we do this or can I no no it doesn't work that way and you get a job and you can do it um and so you know I I wanted to really value my time first and then as I started earning more money.

34:44And then it was like, okay, what is it that I can use this for? And it was have fun, you know, and then, you know, but I still, it was still like, okay, I need to save this forevermore. And then when we hit it with the billions, then, then everything changed because it was like, okay, what will change my life immediately? So it was like, I bought a house, you know, sight unseen. It was a$25 million house. No, you didn't. Honestly, who spends 25 $25 million. I didn't spend$25. So what the deal was, was a guy worked with - Of course you didn't. You did a deal. I did a deal, right? So this guy, damn, how I remember this dude's name, I don't know, right?

35:22But he owned this company, never sold a share of stock. It was a public company, never sold a share of stock. And then the company cratered. And so he'd spent three years and$25 million building this house, more than three years, lived there eight months. And my friend said, look, it's going to go to bankruptcy and you can get it for$12 million. and he showed me a picture. I'm like, fuck it. Done. You know, done. Done. I still live in that house. No, you don't live in that house. I live in that same house 25 years later. Get out of it. 27 years later. What a fantastic investment. That was your house.

35:52That was meant to be. That was because it was just an amazing house, right? Like literally until I got married and had kids, there were rooms I'd never been in. There are still rooms. You couldn't even make your way around it. There are still rooms. That says a lot about you and who you are though, because I feel like you are just so comfortable in who you are that once you've got your thing, that's it. You're just going to stay and stick with it. Yeah, it was just like, it's like, until I got married, I had no furniture. I had like one couch and a big screen TV and it was so big. Like we would play football and wiffle ball, like in the ballroom.

36:26And I literally had a basketball hoop in the ballroom of the house. And so I could just get some shots up. It was amazing. It was so much fun.

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40:06I think the audience that I have really wants to understand how do you get started, right? Like if you have an idea or if you've got something that you believe in strongly, like how do you just get out of the gate? And I think that really what I want to ask you is almost what matters more. Is it the idea or is it how you execute something? So if you would ask me this question six months ago, I would have given you a completely different answer. Well, I'm so glad I've got you now. Yeah. Right. Because of AI. Like literally this morning, I got a question from a kid in high school and I, you know, I get so many emails and every now and then.

40:41You are unbelievable at answering emails. Well, but somebody I like, right. I'm going to respond immediately. But like every now and then I'll be, okay, it's from a kid. Let's see what the question is. Right. And he said, well, same question. How do you get started? And I was like, okay, first thing you have to do is learn AI. You have, whether it's ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, Clod, you've got to spend tons and tons and tons of time just learning how it works and how to ask a question. Is that what you're doing at the moment? You're spending time. So talk me through that? What does that look like?

41:13If you're a founder right now and you want to just learn AI, what are you doing? Just asking it questions. Just asking it questions. And trying everything that comes out that's new. It's like the early days when I first got started. Every day there was a new technology. Every day there was new software. Every day the PCs and the networks were getting faster and bandwidth was getting faster. So it was just a constant, oh my God, oh my God. And AI is the same way now. What do you say to someone who says, yeah, but I don't like AI. I don't want any more technology in my life. Like what, what is the answer?

41:44You're fucked. Basically. That's it. It's like do or die. Yeah. That's like saying, I don't, you know, back in the day, people, I don't need to use a PC. I don't need to use the internet. I don't need a cell phone, you know, wifi. And those businesses died. Done. Yeah. And there's so many examples of that, right? Brands that just didn't transition, didn't update, didn't do what they needed to do. And they died a day. Yeah. Didn't blob onto the internet, didn't figure out, You know, it's just like all the stuff you have to learn, right, for Great American Skims. Yes. It's never-ending. It's a never-ending competition.

42:16And now your business is harder than it's ever been. The hardest. The hardest. And changes every day. Every millisecond. You know, if you saw the stuff that came from Google, right, where people are just typing in things and creating, like, great content. Unreal. No. I mean, I was at the Google Summit last week where they were launching. So when they showed you all this, right? I mean, it was. Because they wanted you to see all this. You can't even fathom that what you're looking at isn't real. I'm like, wait a minute, what is so good about this? And they're like, well, it's not like they have five, six meters anymore.

42:48It is like the realest stuff ever. Now, the good news, so there's multiple parts to all this, right? If you're an entrepreneur or want to be an entrepreneur, and you start playing with it to get a sense of how it works, how to prompt, it becomes like a mentor. It becomes like having, you know, an entire staff of a thousand business professors. That's how you're thinking about it. Yeah. Because you still have to be smart to do it. Like, I, like, if you would say to me, Mark, I need a commercial for skims. Like, I can, I don't know how to use all the technology. I can type in prompts, but I don't have the creative side of it.

43:25I don't know, like, okay, you know, if you're using a 35 millimeter camera and this type Like the light, you need this type of aperture and you need this type of angle and you need to, you know, you want these. So like nuance of expertise is still really important. Oh, it's more important. And the more you're giving AI, the more you're getting out of it, right? Like that's my limited understanding. It's as good as what you give it. Correct. Now it's going to come up with stuff that you couldn't even fathom. It's that good. And it's the ultimate time hack because now, okay, edit that together. Let's see what it looks like.

43:57And then you look at the dailies and you're like, okay, that looks good. okay let's you know shoot a little bit more and see what we get now you don't got to shoot shit you ain't got to do anything right but you still got to be able to know how to edit it yes you still got to know how to tell a story and your ability to tell a story now changes dramatically so before it'd be like okay it's here's my 15 second here's my 30s here's my 60s right maybe we'll do something long form we'll see because you know on tiktok people you know like this or don't like that. And, you know, let's see where the fit is and what the algorithm supports.

44:31Now you just crank out 50 different things in six minutes and then you get to ABC test it and see or run it through, but you still need to have quality, quality qualified people to say that's good. That's not. So it's no substitute for actual humans, but you're just like, it's much less. So you're thinking about AI as in that this is a replacement for some level of creative output, for some level of the number of staff that you might need. So it's almost like shrinking everything that's needed in the beginning. It's no different than like CGI has changed over the last 30 years. You know, using digital, you went from analog cameras to digital cameras, so you can use your phone and it's 4K and then it'll be 8K, right?

45:15So there's things that you don't do now that you did five years ago to create content. And so it's just one more move forward. but for starting a business, like you can say, okay, here's what I want to do. I have this idea where I want to sell these cups that say aspire by Emma Greed. I want to do a business around this. Write me a business plan. And then you get it in a minute and you say, this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. Update this, this, this, this, this. Okay. All right. Now that you've read my business plan, ChatGPT or Gemini, put together a website design. Boom. Minute later, you're looking at the first proof of your website.

45:52I mean, to me right now, there's no better time to be a startup entrepreneur because you have an expert in your pocket. You go to chat GPT or whatever, Gemini, and just ask it. But I love that this stage of your journey, Mark, you are using that. Like as accomplished as you are, as successful as you are, even you are starting over. And it gets weird sometimes too. I'm going to take a picture of your phone. Like what apps do you have that I don't? Oh, I've got everything. It's all on there. Who's teaching you about it? Like, are you, is it all self-discovery or are you like engaging with, I need, I need a, um, is Sam Altman on speed dial?

46:31No, no, no. Just myself. Okay. I don't, you know, it's fun. More fun to learn. Okay. I need a business plan for a mug that says aspire on it that I want to sell, through Skims. Write me a business plan and the best approach to take it to them, okay? All right, let's map this out. First off, the main idea is a sleek, stylish mug branded with the word Aspire, sold in collaboration with Skims, leveraging their brand power and audience. One, executive summary. You're launching a premium mug line that complements Skims' lifestyle brand. The mug embodies motivation and minimalism, aligning with Skims' aesthetic and That's enough for right now.

47:13Just write it up for me and I'll read it later, okay? Unbelievable. All of these things that used to take weeks and weeks and weeks and copywriters and editors and graphic designers and specialists. And you're meeting with your team and going through, what do you think, what do you think? And everybody's always got to give their opinion because otherwise they don't feel valued, right? And that takes time, that takes energy. And so if you can consolidate, now, do you still need people who can copyright? But yes, but those people need to be - Yes, you just need far less. Right, well, it's just you need fewer, but maybe not.

47:42right? Maybe you just, those, but those copywriters have to learn how to use prompts in AI and they have to know which AI will take those prompts and give you better output that's suitable for your businesses. And then the editors would be able to take that video that it creates or the script for the video first and know how to use it within an AI structure like Vio, which is the video creation, right? And so, because if you don't know how to translate the script into what VO uses and it's changing every day now, whatever comes next, next, next, next, next, then you won't have a job. But if you have those skills as an editor and a copywriter, and you know how to translate them into AI so that your prompts are really, really good and quick and efficient, you'll have a job for life.

48:26Of course. So someone starting a business now needs to learn AI. All of it. All of it. Gobble all the information up. Day one, learn everything about AI. And like I told this kid this morning, read books about entrepreneurs because there's still the heart. The AI isn't going to deal with your heart and mind because knowing what the grind is and the work and the fear, because I can get AI to write a business plan for this or anything for that matter. But if I'm not willing to do the work, if I don't understand that I might be broke for a long time, if I don't understand that now it's easier for anybody to start a business.

48:59So now there's more competition, not less. If I don't understand that, then it doesn't matter what the AI tells me. Because you read a lot, right? Yeah, I try to, but now it's all reading about AI. Yeah. But so, all right. So you want people to read books about entrepreneurs and what's probably the last thing they need to do? The last thing is just to experiment. You know, you've got to try stuff that feels uncomfortable. You can ask the AI, how do I, you know, how do I build a mold? Where, where's the best way to build a mold? And even like one of the beauties of AI, it'll, it'll help you create molds that'll be more efficient wherever you send it to build your first, you know, prototypes.

49:35We're in a whole new world. It's a whole new world. Literally, Emma, 2024 was, might as well say, black and white 1920. Which, to me, signals so much opportunity. Oh, where there's change, there's opportunity. Right? But when we start to think about, okay, traditionally, the barriers that have stopped people from starting a business, you know, where they live, where they come from, education level, it's gone. You're saying that's out the window now. Oh, yes. As long as you have that smartphone that can download ChatGPT and all these things, not even paying up, right? You can ask your questions like you have access to me, you, the best professors ever.

50:15Now, it doesn't mean - There's no excuse. Now, you may say, I need money to do this, but then you just ask this ChatGPT, how can I do this with no money? What's the best way to start? How can I create a prototype the least expensive way. I know what needs to happen to most businesses, right? Anybody can now ask those questions. So given everything that you know, the experience of building multiple companies, the experience of investing in all of these very kind of early stage founders, I guess my question to you is, can everyone be a founder? Can anyone be an entrepreneur? Can they? Yes. Should they know?

50:53Thank you. that's the end of that tell me why go on give me the give me the reasons everybody's got ideas and this country that's what makes this country different than every country in the world i say that all the time right because in the uk not everybody thinks i can start a business no doesn't cross their mind no absolutely it's not this it's woven into the fabric of society in america doesn't matter who the president is doesn't matter what party's in charge it's doable it's doable it's Right. And this country, we think I have an idea. And if I have an idea, it could become a business. And then you go on Google or now you go to chat GPT or Gemini and you say, has this ever been done before?

51:34You know, show me anybody who's done it and how it's turned out. Oh, nobody's done it before. Write me a business plan for this idea. Okay. And two seconds later, let me go through. I can do this. Right. But then. But not everybody should do this. There's this line right here. What is the line? The line, when you step over that line, you're in. And it means you got to do everything you got to do to be successful. And you got to do it. You got to do it. You got to do it. It's not like, I'll go raise money and I'll hire people. No, you got to do it. That's failure right there, right? You've got to be the one to do it.

52:05And most people aren't willing to make that commitment. So who shouldn't be a founder? Like, if you want structure, you should not be a founder. Now, you can be anal and deal with details. But if you think, okay, you know, I want my life to have structure. You know, I want to work nine to five. I want to be a founder because I'll have more time to myself. Funny all of those things, Mark, that you say that. Am I wrong? No, you are. You are right. It's just that certain people have a liberty to be able to say those things and other people maybe not so much. But you honestly believe that. It's like if you're looking for structure, if you're looking for familiarity, if you're looking for your days to be pretty much the same every day.

52:42Yeah, you don't like you own the business. If you're looking for balance. Forget it. Maybe don't be a founder. Yeah. I mean, maybe you can make it work if you have, you know, enough money to work your way through it. You own the finances of your company, but your customers and your employees really run your life. You know, and that doesn't even take into account competition. Who is working 24 hours a day to kick your ass. To kill you. Yeah. And so it's, I mean, you know, and in your industry better than anybody, right? Because it is nonstop. Somebody comes in. Nonstop. Somebody comes in, they have an idea.

53:16Oh, no. You know, Emma's wrong. You know, she doesn't get the feel anymore. That's not the way people buy. And you have a window in time as well, right? You're not good forever. Most founders are not great. You have like musicians. You know, I feel like there are these like golden years where you're like in it, you're on it, everything's coming your way. And you match, right? And the stars align. Yeah, exactly. Right. Your feel is the match to what people want. Yes. And music's a great analogy, right? Because what was the hit yesterday? I think today. Same with clothes. Things that, oh man, everybody wants that.

53:49So what are your red flags? Like when you're in a pitch situation, what are the things that to you, you're just like, that's a no-no? They think there's a magic bullet. That if they raise money, they can go hire somebody to do A, B, and C. And that's where I think most businesses fail. Because the founder will realize they don't have a specific skillset. And, or that something's not working that they expect it to work. I thought for sure this would sell. I thought, you know, we're losing$20 ,000 a month if only I had more money for a bigger marketing budget, if only I could hire a marketing person, if only I can hire a salesperson.

54:23It's always kicking the can down the road. Right, to somebody else that's going to be some super person that's, you know, a magic bullet. No, you've got to do it. You've got to be the bullet. You've got to be the bullet, right? If you aren't the magic bullet, it's not going to work unless you get lucky. Have you ever seen anything contrary to that? Like, has there ever been a time where you've met somebody and actually they've defied? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's people, you know, But it's rare. It's rare. It's just very, very rare. Right. I've heard you say a million times that you don't need money to start.

54:53So what do people do when they don't have money to start? Sweat equity. You know, you've got to, first you've got to find the right product or service. If you don't have any money, most likely it's going to be a service. You know, like right now, if I was 16 years old or 25 years old and broke sleeping on the floor again, I'd be all about AI, just like I taught myself programming before. So if you had nothing right now, if you just said a thousand bucks and a laptop, you'd be on the AI trail. If I had access to a library and zero dollars, I would be all about AI. I'd be in there till they kicked me out eating my ribs, you know.

55:26Still with the ribs. Yep. Till they kicked me out. Yeah. And then I knew that I know that I can walk into any small business and say, I know you don't know AI. And I know you're hearing about it. You've messed with ChatGPT some and you're not really sure how to use it. just like back then I said here let me show you how to use a computer and connect them together to be more profitable etc that's exactly what I would do what do you think that the best founders do that separates them from everyone else they love their product or service so much they just love to sell it they realize they're not convincing somebody they realize they're helping somebody you're going to look good in those clothes let me show you how and why you're going to look good using this software you're going to look good you know using this a will be make you more productive or profitable.

56:10You're going to be smarter when you're done reading this book, whatever it is, you know, they are so convinced that their product is going to make people's lives better. why wouldn't they want to sell it and talk to as many people as they could. I love that. What do you think, Mark, separates, I guess, somebody that has a real viable business idea from somebody that has like a hobby? Like how do you know when something is like, this is a thing that I can turn into like an actual viable business? There's two pieces there. If you're so committed, you're dreaming about it. You dreamt about your business, right?

56:48Over and over and over again. You would wake up and you'd write yourself notes because you don't want to forget what you dream about. All the time. All the time. All the time. Same. I cannot tell you all the time. Exactly. That's how you know. And then you've got to see if it's a real business because you might be so, you know, caught up in it. But who knows if anybody else cares? How do you know if something is viable? People are buying it. That's it. Just people are buying it. That's simple. You know, Venmo you. They'll send you money. That's it. That's it. How else do you know? That simple.

57:18Yeah. Now, like, you know, you started, you sold a few, right? Yeah. Then you went to it. I started with one customer. Once I get my one customer, then I can have enough money to go get something for the second company. Damon John talks about selling t-shirts on the corner. And then once you sold, you know, his lot that he had, you use that money. I think people think it's going to happen. Oh, yeah. Everyone feels like it's some overnight. This is slow grind. I talk about this all the time in my own business, but certainly on Shark Tank. What is the difference between someone that should just continue to climb the corporate ladder and someone that should go out on their own?

57:52Do you see that very clearly? Yeah, I mean, what are you good at? You know, people tend not to quit things they're good at. People tend to get rewarded for things they're good at. And whatever it is that makes you good or got you to be good, just do more of it. Now, you may reach a level where you can't go higher for any number of different reasons. And then you can look at going to a competitor, going somewhere else or starting something on your own. But when you're good at something and you're moving up the ladder and you're getting results, there's a really good chance that you or at least you should be rewarded.

58:27And that's a good reason to stick with it. I feel like there's just for so many people, they'll be in a corporate job feeling that they're not getting properly rewarded. but that's not the reason to necessarily go and start up on your own. I mean, you can, that's what weekends are for. That's what nights are for. Should I quit my job? When do I know I should quit my job? You don't until you know you have a company. Don't. Yes. And when do you know you've got a company? When the money starts going in. But it's as simple as that. So what do you say to people then? They're like, okay, I've got my day job.

58:58I've got my side hustle. I'm working on the weekends. I'm seeing some customers. where is the, when and where is the time to go, okay, now I've got to apply myself fully. I mean, when you see your bank account. Are you making it that simple for everyone? Yes. You're like, when you can afford to live. Do you think differently? No, I think it's really difficult for people because, you know, sometimes you can get stuck between a rock and a hard place, right? And I think the hardest thing is actually when you've got a business that doesn't take off. When something takes off. Yeah, then it's easy. You've got total clarity.

59:27When you've got something where you're like, well, you know, I only work on this for like 10 hours a week. And if I could apply myself a little bit more, you end up in that, you know, you know, right. Because, you know, at that point in time, it's typically, all right, I need more inventory, right. Or there's something, whatever it is, like a barrier, right. There's a barrier. And then you deal with that barrier and you may need your job to pay for more inventory. You may need to say, okay, I got to save my money. So I have more inventory for my company, whatever that barrier is. That's what you deal with.

59:56Yeah. That's it. that's what you've got to deal with. I mean, I think there's a lot of headlines right now about people, you know, like graduates that are unemployed. And I just wonder what you would say or what your advice would be for new people that are entering the world of business. Yeah. I mean, you know, A, go find a job because you just spent four years paying to learn, right? Have a job. It doesn't have to be a perfect job, but you're getting paid to learn. I mean, yeah, you're getting paid to learn after paying to learn, right? You spend all that tuition money. So whatever business you go into, wherever you work, you're going to learn stuff.

1:00:28If you go in with the attitude that, okay, it's just a job. I just, you know, go home. But if you go in thinking, okay, this is a company. This is somebody's operating this company. I may be 10 layers down, but at least I can see what they do and learn some things on how they approach it. And I might think to myself, nine months later, 10 months later, okay, I've learned what I think I can learn here. I don't, I don't like it. You know, go get another job. I love it. I think that's really valuable advice. And if I think, if I think back to my twenties, where I worked a corporate job for years, that's what it taught me.

1:01:00It taught me like, how do you run a business actually quite badly at the time? And I really did. It's like, well, that doesn't make sense. And they're giving it away over there. And this, you know, but it was a great kind of training ground for me because I learned more what not to do than what to do when I worked in corporate America. And, but that's what I think people get caught up in. You know, I'm not fully fulfilled. Well, you're getting paid to learn. You spent your four years in college, if that's what you did. But that's the mindset shift, right? It's like, you're getting paid to learn.

1:01:28Not like, I'm not fulfilled. This is not like, you know, my purpose in life. It's not supposed to be your purpose. It's a check. And if you can appreciate it, it's like, I'm learning every day here. It's a different thing. Whatever you start, right, you're going to have to go through a learning process. Using chat GPT or not, you're going to have to go through a learning process. And if you can do it on somebody else's dime. And if in the back of your mind, you know, I want to be an entrepreneur like I did. I was always looking at that stuff because I knew I wanted to have my own company at some point.

1:01:55So every day was a chance for me to learn, you know, even if it got me fired. And, you know, I think now it's not any different. And when I graduated from college, the unemployment - Do you think it isn't any different? No. Really? No. Like when I graduated from college - You don't think there was just like so much more opportunity years ago? No. Hell no. Really? Hell no. Oh, I'll challenge you on that one. Okay, fire away. Okay, so I think that, for example, if you went back 30 years, for me, it seemed like there was just so much less competition. No? Well, just because it wasn't all online where you can see it, you know?

1:02:33That's true. That's fair. But now - But isn't that so much part of it, Mark? Because like the fear for so many people is what they know. And sometimes what you don't know. Like I feel like my naivety in the beginning of starting a business was my biggest superpower. Because you don't know what you don't know. So I was like, why? You didn't know to be afraid of this or that. Yes, for sure. But think about, you know, going to your question, right? Back then, you needed a whole lot more money to get started. True. Right now, if you have a phone and chat GPT. Cost of entry is low. Nothing. You can figure out Shopify.

1:03:06Shopify, right? Amazon, whatever, right? Moles were more expensive. You couldn't just send it to China. Everything was more expensive. To make shit was a lot harder, more expensive. You couldn't just go online like, you know, and just learn all this shit. You were reading manuals. I would literally, I would read the fucking manual. The big catalog. And I was sitting in bookstores. I would literally go into bookstores, grab this magazine, grab this magazine, grab that book, go grab that book. Hide in the corner and read all day because I couldn't afford to buy that shit. Yeah, there was no blinkist summary on something.

1:03:42No, and there was no shortcuts. There were no life hacks that like get you there. So now it may be harder because there's more competition. But to get started, there was no businesses back then. You could start with no money down unless you were just selling your time. You know, I'm shoveling driveways, going door to door, whatever, right? Now get your Shopify. And if you sell something, then you go to the manufacturer or you go to the distributor and you drop ship it. there's ways there's ways there's ways what's something that you wish every first time found and new sales cures all sales cures all no sales no company that's it no exceptions because people get amored with all the other stuff amored with their model the marketing and it's like you need sales i talk about this all the time it's like focus on distribution focus on your sales focus on like owning that story and just being the best salesperson possible because that's all you need at the end of the day.

1:04:40Right, because if you can sell. Yeah, you'll figure the rest out. Yes, because everything follows through to that sale. If you can't sell, it doesn't matter what you're good at. It doesn't matter anything else for that matter. You're stuck. Why do you think people avoid that? Because people don't like to be told no. Oh. You know, I tell people all the time, every no gets you closer to a yes. Every no. And I would tell that to myself. I was selling magazines door to door, right? And I'd walk up. Are you telling me that for$5 a week, this wasn't going to improve the education and enjoyment of your family?

1:05:13No. Bye. On to the next one. And it's the same. Selling Mavs tickets. Switch up your pitch. You know, when I first bought the Mavs. Hey, it's less than a McDonald's. No, you guys suck. Boom. On to the next, right? You've just got to be relentless. And most people are afraid of the word no. Are you afraid to give the word no? Because I feel like getting the feedback is really hard. You just give the feedback, right? No, I don't like to say no to people. That's my problem. That's why I don't do hiring in my companies. Oh, is that true? Oh, yeah. Because I'm awful at hiring people. You're just like, I'm on board.

1:05:46No, I'm like, I'm a sales guy, right? So like, I think I can make this work. What is the truth then in entrepreneurship that no one actually tells you? The truth? Yeah, what's the truth? It's hard. You know, it's, there's, I think, you're not automatically going to make money most people don't make it most people fail it's hard yeah that's i think what i've seen and it's interesting actually as you go into the tank because even if you think an idea is a great one and you think it has a market like not everything works out and you can give the funding and it just for i don't know a myriad of reasons might it fails yeah most companies have you failed yeah of course i've failed you you never heard about my a powdered milk company?

1:06:27No. When I started out of college? No. Not a good one? Not a good one. It was cheaper. It didn't matter if it didn't taste like milk. It was powdered milk. All right, tell me about the powdered milk company. No. Well, I want to know about the failure. I want to know what does it mean to fail and get back up and do it again? Like, what is it in you that allows you to take the failure and it not be about you? Damon John says it's best. It's the power of broke. If you're broke, what else are you going to do? I mean, I was eating mustard and ketchup sandwiches. I was going to a bar with$5, buying one beer and eating all the fried mushrooms and the peanuts and whatever shit they offer.

1:07:06Broke is good. Broke is great for a period of your life. Yes, right? Because you learn. Yeah. Yeah, it's really true. But what have you learned? Do you feel like the failures that you've had, have they amounted to something that you've been able to see as a pattern in your life? Or is it more just about the individual circumstance? because I feel like I could look at every failure I've had and I'm like, basically the same thing. I don't know if it was basically the same thing other than maybe shit didn't sell, right? It's that. Powder milk? Yeah, it didn't sell. It did not sell. I remember taking samples to people, mixing up like, look, milk's expensive.

1:07:43We're broke, right? This save you money. Here's some grainy shit. Mixing it up and try it. And just seeing the look on their face. No, you can do about that. Point taken. You're like, I got it. But it's just you. Your taste in milk is different, right? All right, so how long? Because this is kind of love. About a month. A month? Yeah, about a month. Yeah, but isn't that the thing? At least you didn't try to do that for a year. Because some people just don't know how to step away. They were doing no sales. It was going nowhere, you know? I know, but people don't always hear that. Don't you think?

1:08:14You must deal with a lot of early stage founders that just don't read the signs. They don't see it. And I think it's really important to talk a bit about failure out and to talk about when it's time to pack it in. You know, I never really thought of it that way, but you're right. You have to have a lot of self-awareness to be an entrepreneur. You have to know what you don't know unless, you know, it's early. But once you get going in particular, you have to know what you suck at and you need to know how to get people to complement your skills. I think a lot of times entrepreneurs think, you know, I can do it all, which at the beginning, you pretty much have to.

1:08:51But as you grow and you're trying to scale your business, if you have any success at all, you need to know what you're not good at. And you need to find people who complement your skills. And I think one of the mistakes entrepreneurs make sometimes is they won't bring in people with expertise that they don't have to be their startup partners. You know, I'm not going to give up some of my company. You know, the thing that cracks me up, I can't tell you my idea, you might steal it. I'm like, trust me, I won't. i promise you i'm like fine then don't tell me next yeah on to the next one but it's a great question actually like just to understand the mistake that so many first-time founders make and i feel like if i look back at my history i'm an overly optimistic person and i feel like i can will anything like anything i can make it right and sometimes i'm like emma you can't will that powdered milk.

1:09:44I can sell anything, right? Honestly, and sometimes that will get in your way, but I've learned that about myself. And you learn, right? But it's okay to bang your head against the wall like that and learn. Yeah. So long as you learn. Look, I say this all the time on Shark Tank. It doesn't matter how many times you fail. You only have to be right one time. Just one time. What are you spending most of your time on now when you, you know, because it's like you're in a whole new stage of your life where you've made decisions that are all about what you want to do and how you want to spend your time.

1:10:16And I'm curious as to your routine, what you do in a day, what you need to get out of a day. Beg my children to spend time with me, basically. You're like, please, do you want to hang out? Please, I'll fly you to the game. Whatever, right? Seriously, it's like, can we go to lunch? You know, let's go. If your kids only knew how many people wanted to go to lunch with you, right? Of course, right? No, they do, right? We should tell them. Kids, figure it out. Everyone wants to go to lunch with your dad. If we go out, then I got to deal with people, right? That's true. You know, and so I feel bad for them on that end of it.

1:10:47It's like I always have to have the conversation, you know, if your friends get drunk and screw up, nobody cares. You're my kid, it's going to be on the front page. Sorry, kids. Yeah, that's the responsibility you bear. And sometimes they don't want to go out. They'll go, I'll go with mom, but I don't want to deal with the dad. And, you know, that's kind of heartbreaking. Yes, I can imagine that that really is heartbreaking, actually. It's really difficult for them. But that's really what you're optimizing for, to spend time with your kids. Yeah, yeah. And like I said, in the AI stuff, I mean, I really get into it, obviously.

1:11:18And it's like, you know, knowledge truly is power. And knowing how to use these tools is everything. It is going to be everything. When someone asks you what you do now, what do you even say? I do a lot of emails from all the different companies. And we haven't talked about costplusdrugs.com yet, right? That's a big question. Well, I really wanted to ask you about costbushdrugs.com. I mean, are you, okay, so this was my thing, Mark, because I know you're a very political person. I'm not that political. I mean, Mark, I saw you out there. I thought, first of all, I do not understand why you're not the president of this country.

1:11:55And I know everybody asks you, but are you 100 % sure you're not going to run? I wouldn't put my kids through it. Really? You're not going to run for president just for us that need you? Just for me? Maybe you asked me really nicely. Just for my whole family that are like, you know, don't you want to? I get asked every day. Is it every day that much? Lots of times a day. Okay, fine. Then I won't bug you back. But you've really considered it hard. Yeah, for a while I did. Yeah. It's just. Not for you. Yeah, my whole life I never got into politics. Do you have the feeling that if you run, you would win?

1:12:27Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I know, that may sound arrogant. It's not arrogant. I think it's a fact. It's like, I could guarantee I would bet on you and Michelle Obama. Boom, as the president. Yeah, Michelle, better suited than I am. I mean, I don't think she necessarily wants to do that. We won't speak on her behalf. Right, right, right. I think if either of you wanted it, you'd have it. I mean, the running part would be fun, you know, but just the shit my family would go through. Yeah. Yeah, if I was single, yeah, I would do it. You know, if my kids were 40 years old, I would do it. Well, there's still time.

1:12:56Your kids will be 41 of these days. One of these days. Just saying, just saying. All right, back to Cost Plus Drugs, because I saw that President Trump had made this announcement about leveling the cost of, you know, prescription drugs, right? And so it immediately made me think of you. Is that problematic for your business? No, it's great. It is? It is great. Yeah, so let's say what Cost Plus Drugs does. Please, tell me. Everybody likes their doctors and all that stuff, but nobody likes the financial side of healthcare. It's a mess, right? You have to deal with benefits and all that stuff, and there's no upside.

1:13:25Well, as an English person, we still don't understand it. You know that. We get eye drops for four pounds, four dollars, you know? It's not like NHS gives you everything. I will never understand what it costs in America to get something that for my entire life I've taken totally for granted. Well, it may be cheaper over here now. Yes, I hope. But through Cost Plus Drugs. So anyways, nobody likes the financial side because you don't know what anything costs. There's no transparency. So we created costplusdrugs.com. And so you go to Cost Plus, you put in the name of the medication. We don't carry them all yet.

1:13:56We've got like 2 ,500 different SKUs. And if we carry it up, it pops up, right? Like your eye drops. and then we'll show you our actual cost. And then we'll show you our markup, which is 15%. And you have your choice of mail order. If it's mail order, it's$5 for the pharmacist, $5 for shipping and handling, shows up in a couple of days, or you can go to a local pharmacy. That's it, right? But by being transparent, we change the game. By only having a 15 % markup, people trust us. Like I read this thing one time and I firmly stick by it now. Trust equals transparency divided by self-interest, right?

1:14:35Wow, that's a really powerful statement. Like how much are you doing for yourself or how much are you doing for your customers, basically, right? So our markup. Say that one more time for me, Mark. That's so good. Trust equals, it's a formula. Trust equals transparency. How transparent are you on a scale of 1 to 10? Cost plus drugs is a 10, right? And then self-interest. How much do you put yourself ahead of your customers or how much do you put your customers first? That's really powerful. Right. Our markup is only 15 percent. People are like, that's fair. So you get to see the total cost right there.

1:15:06We publish our full price list. And so by doing that, we've just exploded and we've changed people's lives. And, you know, on my professional side, I mean, there's nothing more rewarding. I get emails all the time. I can't imagine. You know, I was going to spend nine hundred dollars on this medication for my cancer and I couldn't afford it. I go to Cost Plus Drugs and it's$21. I mean, or you save me$15 ,000 a month, right? It's insane. And so, you know, Cost Plus Drugs comes along and we've just been around for three years. So now let's tie it back to what the administration's doing. They want the cost of medications to be the same as they are overseas.

1:15:45Well, on generics, which is most of our SKUs, we're already cheaper. Like most of the generics that you would have to buy in the UK were cheaper. Go to Canada, we're cheaper just because the way generics are structured. But for brand name drugs, it's a mess. And so there's these things called pharmacy benefit managers that are the middlemen who are keeping the big pharma manufacturers from working with us because they know if we introduce transparency, it'll screw up the game for them. So now with this stuff from the administration and wanting to match those prices, now the manufacturers of those brands, they think they can get out from under the thumb of these middlemen, the pharmacy benefit managers, and work directly with us.

1:16:30And I think it'll happen. It looks like it'll happen. So if that happens, a lot of these brand medication prices - They're going to tumble. I mean, it's a win-win for consumers, basically. For sure. And why did you choose this category for a new business? Because it's kind of outside of everything that you've done in technology and - Yeah, because, I mean, I saw an opportunity to disrupt something that's really fucked up. It's really fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're trying to simplify it through transparency. Like for my employees, there's no co-pays. For my employees, if you do your stuff through our network, right?

1:17:03If you do your stuff, if you buy your drugs through Cost Plus Drugs, there's no co-pay. We pay for all of it. And now we're setting up this direct contracting with hospitals and doctors and everything. And I can get all that stuff to you guys so that there's no out of pocket for our employees for anything that we cover. There's no preauthorizations at all. Because we're willing to work directly with the hospitals and cut out the middlemen, we pay them a lot less. We just pay them up front. It's seriously impressive. And it's pretty noble, actually, to be doing this at this stage of your career.

1:17:32Yeah, and I'm not doing it to make money, right? I don't need the money. But the whole idea of fucking up health care, that's fun. Yeah, that's fun, right? I love that you always come back to fun. That's going to be my big takeout from you, actually, because it's all about you having fun. Yeah, it makes you feel good, right? Like when you see somebody wearing your stuff. Oh, nothing makes me happier. Also, nothing makes my husband happy because what happens to us in restaurants is that people come up and they flash us. You know, they go, skims! And, you know, he kind of puts his head down and pretends he's looking at his dinner.

1:17:59I'm like, this is working out really well for you. Right? That's basically my life right now. People just flashing me their bras. Perfect. And I wonder if you have any regrets at all because you've done so many things, so many impressive things. Is this something that you missed or something that... Yeah, there's lots of stuff that I missed, right? You don't dwell? Yeah, I mean, I don't really dwell on it. I try to learn from it, just not repeat it. I wasn't nice enough when I was first getting started. You know, I literally had one of my partners say, people are afraid of you. You know, I didn't listen all the time, you know, because I was focused on doing what I was focused on, you know?

1:18:35And so I miss things and, you know, that negatively impacted people who worked for me. So there's a lot of mistakes that I've made and that's just inevitable. you know, and I wish I could have done it differently. And if I had to do it all over again, I would do it differently, but it's, it's done. And I'll try to learn from it. But you really have learned from it because if, and I mean this in all seriousness, you are one of the nicest people I know. You know me well, but you just don't see me when I'm like, fuck you, don't do that. I hope I never see you like that. No, I don't do that. Those days are gone, but I used to.

1:19:08But it must, it must be something that you've really decided that I'm going to be a nice guy because that really is who you are now. People would rather work with you if you're nice. Of course. I mean, I've always taken the opposite point of view because I feel like, you know, you get more of honey. Like, you're just going to be nice and like people are going to do more for you. They're going to be nicer to you. No one likes to do with people that piss them off or they hate. No one likes an arsehole. And I'm really interested because you talk about your kids so much and I wonder what you're teaching them.

1:19:36That's a good question. Sometimes it feels like nothing. they're good kids. I mean, I've got to say my kids are really good. Um, my oldest is a junior in college. Um, my middle's just graduated from high school last week. And my son, my youngest is going to be a sophomore in high school. And so they know everything, obviously. And I'm trying to like, just be there as much as I can and participate as much as I can, as much as the let me, you know, so I don't mind suffering my son wherever he needs to go or driving, you know, if any of my kids wants to do something, you know, unless I just humanly can't, the answer is yes.

1:20:21And so, um, that, that, that to me, other than cost plus, you know, learning and doing what I do professionally, but family wise, just trying to, you know, spend as much time with my kids and family? I am, because I spent such a long time sitting next to you and trying to extrapolate bits of information, I feel to be remiss not for me to try something today. And so I feel like I'm in a bit of a chapter change. I've always looked at my life. It's like I have my consultant life. I have my like, you know, business, starting businesses life. And now I'm in a bit of a different chapter. And I wonder what you would say to somebody like me, given everything that you've learned.

1:20:59What chapter are you in? Well, you know, it's an interesting one because I feel like, you know I love what I do I really really do I love these businesses but I'm definitely at the stage where working kind of 16 hour days and filling every 40 minute you know section of my day it's it's really it's really difficult and I'm in the time of my life you know I have a 11 year old and an eight year old and twin three year olds and so I'm looking for very purposefully for a different type of rhythm to my day. Certainly not to say I'm going into a time. No, no, I get that, right? No, I know exactly what you're saying.

1:21:38But a different rhythm, like more opportunity to indulge in the things that I love and also share the things that I have learned. Well, I already know the answer. You've got to learn how to trust. You've heard this before. Probably a lot, right? Because when you're really, really, really good at something and you know it takes more time to convey it to somebody and wait for their answer and then explain what you want. And you just want to do it yourself. Let's just get it done, right? Because we've got other shit to do. And so, like I said, I suck at hiring. And so I had to get help with having somebody that I trusted to hire the people that I know we needed.

1:22:16Even if it meant, you know, turning over that person multiple times. Because you've got to find you. You've got to find your mini-meets. And be able to trust them. So hard. It is really hard. It's so hard. Especially when it's a go, go, go, go, go business. But that's what you got to do. Because otherwise you're doomed to 16 hours a day forever. Forever. Yeah. And it doesn't stop. And it doesn't need to be a magical. And what I've always tried to do, and like I said, I don't really hire, but I'm good at promoting people. Right. And starting with somebody, getting to know them and trying to, you know, get them into new skills that they can grow with and I can grow with them.

1:22:55so that, you know, who is the one person that caught your attention in one of those hours in that 16 hour day that can deal with that issue that you can train or support, or they can just tag along with you until they get there and you trust. And then you've got to be honest with them. Here's why I'm doing it. It may or may not work. And if it doesn't work, doesn't mean I'm going to fire you, but you may be disappointed that you're not that person, the way I need that person to be. yeah no knock on you you know this is just a very specific role that i need that's what you've got to do because it's hard hard in your situation where you've gotten like this and now you got to fight you know fight every day because whenever you see this for even a day no you can't you're like then you have to go fully back in it right and it's just like what the fuck's going on yeah and it's exhausting and it is exhausting because you have people that gave you money and now you're responsible to them and they're trying to get their roi and they want to know why this isn't happening and you've got your budgets and it's driving you crazy that you've got a budget that somebody else is also wants to know instead of just you know it feel like you've been here before mark right it's just like but you took that money right you took that money you gotta make a money that comes that's just it but it's a great lesson for an entrepreneur and for founders because if you don't trust people you can't grow like there's no one that does it your life cycle right yeah everybody is it's all about where you are right because individually you have a life cycle literally like what you can tolerate and what you've done and what you've accomplished and the risk reward for your time because your time value goes like this as you get older and the money if you made enough money it starts to you know unless you're a person that just needs more and more and more and i don't get that sense right so now it's about your time but it's also about the obligation because i always say raising money isn't an accomplishment it's an obligation it's an obligation and so aim at the truth right and so now you have this obligation and so the good news about it in having it is that, like you said, industries go in phases and you still have to find those people who help you adapt to the next phase, you know?

1:24:57So what's hot and what's next, you know, for Gen Z and the 15 year olds are going to be different than the 25 year olds. And so trying to find those people, that's, that's the challenge. And that becomes that, you know, here I am trying to give you a vibe, right? But that's the part you got to figure out how to conquer. How do you hire those people to put you in that position? And what's the learning process to get there to be able to do it? Because if you don't do it, you already know what happens. You're doomed. You're stuck. You implode. You're stuck. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really interesting because I feel like one of the things that I spend the most time on is hiring.

1:25:33Because it is when you get a person that comes into your business and you can truly trust them, it's like an unlock, right you're like and hopefully they're teaching you when you get people that are really serious then it's the worst thing ever because it's a reflection on you that you did it wrong and then everybody else knows that's wrong and you make mistakes all the time and it doesn't matter i make mistakes all the time every year there's a handful of people that i'm like this is just not going to work and they were good somewhere else and they have the experience and on paper they were amazing and they were fully vetted and it doesn't work out for whatever reason it doesn't work out that's when i talk about you gotta kill your darlings like just done get it done oh yeah you always uh higher slow fire fast that's the one ain't it just and you adjust um i wonder what is left in your life for you to accomplish well i'm just getting started do you feel like that yeah of course yeah don't let the wrinkles fool you right i love that you feel like you're just getting started yeah like i get these you know these requests we want to give you a lifetime achievement award in tech we want to give you an honor for for this.

1:26:38I'm like, fuck no. I don't, yeah. I'm like, no, I'm not taking awards. Like I take two awards. Um, and I always say no to the rest. I just don't do awards because I'm just getting started. What is it that tells you you're just getting started when you're so accomplished? What can be left for you to, where's, what's the ambition? Disrupting industries is fun. Fixing healthcare is good. Could be amazing. I got a lot of work to do there because we have a path on pharmacy and I think I have a path on fixing the healthcare side of it too. Right. Amen to that. I mean, sign me up. Yeah. You know, and you connect me with your HR.

1:27:15I'll be your guinea pig. I mean, I am ready for it. Let's absolutely go. The things I'm doing for my companies, the eat your own dog food stuff. Yeah. I'll turn you on to all of it. We really, really need this. But doing that though, right? But that's where your ambition lies in like really changing, disrupting inventories, industries. Yeah. But having fun is important to you at this point i mean yeah because it's rewarding you know i'm competitive in everything you know but i stick to things i can be good at yeah well that's that's the pattern in everything that you've done right you've found what you've been really good at and you've just gone deeper and deeper into it and had more and more focus exactly i read uh last week or maybe it was the week before that you'd started a big sports fund now yeah what is your plan there so harbinger is with the guy rashaun williams who who's a guest shark.

1:27:59Amazing. So good. Yeah. And so he was like, hey, we want to do this fun. Would you help? I'm like, sure. Sure. That's right up your ass. Yeah. So I can help you. You sold the Mavs now. What's that? You sold the Mavs now. I still have 27%. But I don't have controlling interest. Oh, is that hard for you, Mark? Because that's not the way it was supposed to be. But that's a whole nother conversation. I mean, we've had this conversation. I was like, did you know? Yeah. Especially like, yeah, it was the first Luca game. It was the first Luca game. And I was like, I don't know about that. I was giving you shit because I was like, I think this was not good.

1:28:29I think this was not a good move. You're like, what do you know? And all of LA is just like, thanks, Mark. I was like, I'm going to ask the question that everybody wants to know. I was like, did you know? And why did you do that? I didn't know. And I didn't. And I was supposed to be in charge of it. But yeah, you know, he gave me a lot of money and changed his mind. So I kept the money. What are you going to do? Well, thank you. We're happy to have him. That's all I can say. But go back to the sports fund for me. It's not too hurtful. But no, so what we want to do is minority interest in sports franchises are hard to sell sometimes.

1:29:02And so we just want to create a vibrant marketplace with some transparency for anybody in a major sports franchise who maybe their, you know, their families have owned it for 30 years and they own 1 % or 5%. So it's more for minority ownerships not to try to get control. Interesting. Are you spending a lot of time on that? No, not a lot. It's more fun for you. Yeah, I just answer questions and connect people. Yeah. I love that. It's just, I mean, it feels like you're never, you're never going to stop. Do you ever think that there'll be a day when you're like, I'm just going to pack it up and I'm just not working?

1:29:34It's not work. It's not work. Will you ever stop thinking about all this stuff? Will you ever stop seeing something? Never. Because I really do genuinely love it. And I imagine I'm just going to like keel over one day, like mid. Well, you know, it's just about allocating your time, right? So I don't have to go into an office and spend 14-hour days worrying about the furniture or whatever. It's just like I do almost everything via email and some Zooms. So I'm meeting with pharmacy companies over Zoom and whoever. And I mean, literally, there's not a minute of it that I don't love. It sounds great.

1:30:14It is fun for me to learn all this pharmacy shit. And people are like, wait, you're the Shark Tank guy. You're not supposed to know all this. I'm like, it's important. I put in the time and I learned it. And then how do you apply AI to all this and learn all this stuff for our manufacturing so that we can be the lowest cost provider versus everyone else in the world? Stuff is fun. You know, like you were saying, once you find something that you love to do and it's fun, just keep on doing it or find a new application. So, you know, I don't see a reason to stop any of the stuff that I like to do.

1:30:45Why would you? Well, honestly, I am so happy to speak to you because I just think that you are one of the most inspiring, honest people. And from the day that I first met you, I was like, this smart guy is like all that he cracks up to be. You're the least disappointing person in the world. Let's say that. Okay. That's a hell of a scale to be on, but I'll take it. I mean, it's a great compliment because everybody you ever meet, you know, you build them up in your head and then you're like, that's disappointing. Yeah, trust me, if you knew everything. Well, don't tell me. I've had enough. No. but like we all do right we all do dumb shit we all do dumb shit no but it you know it's really interesting mark because i think that success does funny things to people and it's amazing when you can be as open and as giving and still have these like really big aspirations to make things you know to have your fun but to make things better i think it's really impressive do this and what it's the best it's the best in the world it's the best ever least disappointing podcast i've ever I'll take it.

1:31:47I'll definitely take it. I've only got rapid fire for you now. All right. The first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed, please. Take a shit.

1:31:58I didn't know we were going to get that honesty. That is so true. Yeah, I'm going to give you the normal answer. You're the only person who is ever going to say that. I'm going to run a compilation of these. And be like, take a shit. I was like, I can tell her what I'd normally say, but that would be no problem. Manifesting, meditating. Yeah, like check my emails. Whatever. No, take a shit. Damn right. Literally the best. I should have asked that question last because now we can't recover.

1:32:37This is what I mean. Like you're the best. Who would say that? And this is what we need a president that just like does that. Mr. President. Mr. President, what did you do? Lactose intolerant, gotta go. Amazing. Okay, that is amazing. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life and in your personal life? Personal life, just more time with my kids. Just with them wanting me, instead of me dragging it. And professional, just fucking up the healthcare industry and really changing it in this country. what's a book that changed your life it's probably several of the Ayn Rand books like The Fountainhead was big um a couple of her books yeah yeah any of them yeah like Howard Rourke was like my role model he was like a guy in her books that just didn't care what other people thought just focused on learning and trying to be the best he could be in his mind and so that kind of model like a lot of people think well that's you know too laissez-faire and too libertarian but that part didn't matter it was just like this was a guy I was just like all about not caring and just going for it.

1:33:56Clearly role model. What is something you valued when you were starting out that you don't anymore? Probably status you know I remember after I sold my first company going into bars thinking to myself I'm richer than you I'm richer than you I'm richer than you you know just dumb shit that guys you mean you don't walk into bars thinking that anymore I already know all right something that you value now that you didn't back in the days kindness empathy probably the most yeah I wasn't real empathetic at all when I was first getting started it was just like go go go go go go go go go if you're in my way get the fuck out of my way that was it and now you know then I went literally kicking but you know but now it was just like okay I'm sorry let me see if I can help you it's this isn't a fit that isn't a fit but you know if I can answer any questions or do anything for you I'm happy to you.

1:34:56Thank you Mark you're the best.

1:35:03If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilead-Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Leah Rees-Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristen Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker.

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