What if the Best Retirement is No Retirement at All?

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1:19Make more of what's yours. Accounts subject to credit approval. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News. I'm fitter, I'm better at my job than I was when I was 30. Why on earth should I, why would I want to sit around and do nothing? David Lloyd spent his career working in commercial radio, first as a presenter and eventually running stations in places like Manchester, London and Birmingham. But by the time he was approaching 60, he found himself and his peers in what he calls semi-retirement.

2:02We were doing bits of consulting and writing and we're on that sort of drift towards, you know, from being busy every day to doing nothing. David wasn't ready to retire, but work was starting to dry up. He was also noticing a shift as a radio listener. More and more of his favorite presenters were getting replaced by younger talent. And the stations were playing music that wasn't really tailored to him and people from his generation. So during the pandemic, he had an idea. For a radio station for people our age.

2:42That's right. Boom radio. After baby boomers, because we know that boomer has become a bit of an insult, let's reclaim it. It wasn't just four people David's age. It was made by them, too. The station employs people who have decades of experience under their belts and desire to keep working, but who might have limited opportunities. David and his radio peers are part of a growing segment of the global population that wants to continue working later in life, or who are returning to the workforce after years away from it. This is the radio station we've actually spent our whole lives getting ready to run.

3:17It really is. So I'm having an absolute ball. I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith, in for Sarah Holder and David Gura, and this is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. Today on the show, why are so many workers delaying retirement or re-entering the workforce? What challenges does that pose for them and for the labor market? And what one group of radio lovers did to take matters into their own hands?

3:45In the U.S., entering your 60s marks the start of a new chapter, senior citizenship. You become eligible for things like Medicare and reduced transit fares. You can start claiming Social Security funds. And the expectation is you're going to retire soon, if you haven't already. It's an idea that dates back centuries to late 1800s Germany. I think it was Otto von Bismarck who created the Social Security program back in Germany. When almost no one would draw down on it, right? That's right. That's part of what we're trying to have a conversation about is that system no longer really functions the way it should today because that was a system created when people weren't living as long.

4:28And the jobs were quite different back then. They were more physical and agrarian and manufacturing kind of jobs. So it was a different work style. Hala Nazeri is the head of the Longevity Economy Initiative at the World Economic Forum. People are living longer lives than ever before. However, our retirement systems, our pension systems didn't really change to catch up with that. We still have that mid-60s retirement standard, even though when it was established back in 1800s Germany, the average German only lived until about 40. And when the U.S. established its Social Security system in the 1930s, the average lifespan was about 60.

5:09Today, American life expectancy is nearly 80. People are living so much longer that they could work longer. Now, we're not saying people should work longer. But what we have found is some people need to work longer because they just didn't save enough. And between their savings and Social Security, it's not enough to live off of. Some people want to work longer because that is where they find their purpose and their community, and they're not quite ready to let that go. And when you're talking about retirement going from five years to 25 years, that's a long time to try to find something to keep yourself busy and happy.

5:48And that has led to the rise of so-called un-retirement, basically returning to the workforce after you retire. So there are two main reasons why people un-retire. One is definitely financial. They retire and they realize they don't have enough money saved up to live the kind of life that they want to live. According to U.S. Bank's 2025 Wealth Report, which surveyed 5 ,000 American adults, three quarters of Gen Z and millennials expect to spend more than 15 years retired. And 63 percent of adults worry they'll need to un-retire to make ends meet. Pension programs are largely a thing of the past, and the trustees who manage the Social Security program announce that they're expecting the fund to run out of money in 2032.

6:34After that point, the program would still take in payroll taxes, but those revenues would only cover about 78 percent of scheduled benefits unless, of course, Congress acts. American retirees just do not have the security they once had. But the other reason people un-retire is that sense of community and purpose, that they want to be back in with a group, that they want to feel like they're giving back, that they're part of a community. For whatever reason, work is that community for a lot of us here in the United States. That didn't used to be the case back in the 50s and 60s, but today it is.

7:09That's where we get our friends, our community, and so people are looking for that. According to a survey from the AARP, the percentage of retirees who un-retire or decide to go back to work is still pretty low. It hovered around 7 % this winter. But that is up a full percent from just a few months prior. Even if that number is slowly on the rise, it's not so easy to reenter the workforce as an older person. I think the biggest challenge, to be honest, Stacey, is ageism and people thinking that they don't understand the technology, they won't want to learn new things. There's this still misguided notion that younger employees and older employees don't get along, that there's this generational rift.

7:49We did a report actually with the OECD and AARP several years ago that showed that the most creative teams were the ones that were multi-generational. The job seeker site Resume Builder surveyed a thousand hiring managers, and a third of them said they had concerns about hiring seniors. When asked why, 64 percent of them cited potential health issues. Nearly half pointed to seniors' lack of experience with technology, and around 40 percent said seniors work too slowly. That bias shows. In 2024, Bureau of Labor Statistics data showed that it took job seekers who were over 65 about 10 weeks longer to find a job compared with people in their early 20s.

8:29In the U.K., where David Lloyd from Boom Radio lives, it took about 20 percent of unemployed 18 to 24-year-olds over a year to find a job, compared to 30 percent of over 50-year-olds. Society has said, yes, we've had enough of you now. You know, can you go away and just sit quietly? I think people think that the best employees are within a certain age frame, but there's all sorts of different ages that an employee could benefit a company. I feel like there's a lot of emphasis right now on AI and people who are tech savvy and can come in and are comfortable with technology and all of these things.

9:02Like, what are some of the advantages that an older worker might bring? I think one of them is probably stability, being a little more unflappable. I think they can manage crises a bit more seamlessly. And that unflappability, that battle-tested experience, it's something David says he's proud of when he looks at his generation. We felt we're probably at the peak of our powers. I mean, you know, we're still very agile, able. We can do anything. We've learned all the things that can possibly go wrong. And just as you're at that stage of life, nobody wants to employ you. Another anniversary oldie.

9:43Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Ebony and Ivory, produced by George Martin. After the break, how David's dream of a radio station run by unretired workers panned out. And what creative solutions other countries and companies have developed to address this.

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12:50The idea for Boom Radio came to David Lloyd on an evening walk in 2020, at the height of the COVID pandemic. He was going to start his own radio station, employ other retired or semi-retired presenters, and appeal to other boomer listeners. We also thought that if we can do it from our own homes, the overheads of running the radio station can be pretty low, and therefore we can create, hopefully, a business which can sustain itself. David emailed an old colleague of his, Phil Riley, and laid out his vision for the station. He sent, as he would, a spreadsheet back saying, I've done the figures.

13:27Because that's the sort of person he is and you need other people. He said, I've done the figures. I think this could work. Let's call it Boom Radio. David convinced some private investors to back him, drew money out of his pension, and then started calling up potential on-air talent. And I said, look, come with us. We'll pay you, but not very much at the outset. Come with us on the journey and if it goes well. And they all said yes. And just like that, Boom Radio was born. And it's Friday morning here on Boom Radio. Mind you, when you get to a certain age, Fridays aren't that much different to Mondays.

14:00We're an upbeat radio station. People turn us on to be cheered up. That's why they come to us. But don't be afraid to let out those little things that people our age talk about. So they will talk about their hearing aid falling out. But just like people our age in real life, that you can talk about those things without those things defining you. The response was immediate. Boom Radio went from a digital broadcast to securing a national transmission within weeks of hitting the airwaves. They brought in advertisers who wanted to capture their demographic, cruises, insurance, an easy to use smartphone.

14:31It's a lot of very fitting products. Today, five years in, the station has more than a million monthly listeners. I've never felt anything like it. I mean, we get emails, letters as well, that make us cry every day. You know, when they say, you have changed my life. You know, things like my husband has died. There was just an empty house. Now I put you on and I feel there's some company there. And there's the impact on the station's three dozen presenters, including David. It's a beautiful, cyclical thing. I'm in my back bedroom again messing about with radio just as when I was 16. And it's beautiful.

15:08Boom Radio is a more grassroots example of a company putting its emphasis on older workers. But there are some companies that have their own initiatives to attract and retain older employees. CVS Health has a program that recruits workers over 50 for tough-to-fill pharmacy positions. Amazon and Goldman Sachs both have returnship programs, which recruit and train people who've been out of the workforce for a significant stretch. Other companies offer phased retirement programs that allow older workers to keep their jobs, but work fewer days a week or take on more of a mentorship role. I think people really suffer a bit when they lose that institutional knowledge.

15:46So I think that's part of the reason why phased retirement programs work, because you can keep some of that knowledge still and help everyone else benefit from it. Hala Nazeri at the World Economic Forum. I think the other benefit is I think a more diverse workforce, whether that's ages or gender or anything else, is a more interesting and creative workforce. And so I really think it benefits everyone if you have a diversity of voices. I mean, you've looked at issues of longevity and work all over the world. Do we see any differences between the U.S. and people looking at these issues in the rest of the world?

16:21So many advanced countries in the rest of the world have longer lifespans than we do. That's one thing I'll say. Oh, interesting. Some have more sustainable pension systems than we do, which also changes things a bit. Some have mandatory retirement ages. Free health care. Free health care is a huge part of it. So it's hard to look at longevity with one lens globally because every country has kind of a different advantage or disadvantage. I can tell you about the countries that I think are doing it right, and one of those is Singapore. Oh, OK. What's Singapore doing? They definitely have an aging population.

16:56And what they're specifically looking at is helping their population upskill and reskill in a way that nobody else is doing. So they have this program called Skills Future, where at midlife, which they say is 40, which I think might be older going forward, but at 40, you get money to once again reskill or upskill. So if that's the point that you're thinking, maybe this isn't what I want to do, then the government gives you this money to try to get a new skill or focus on a new thing. So you could pivot or be like, you know, for my current job, it'd be really useful if I knew Python. Exactly. Okay.

17:33Exactly. So the government works with the citizens to create these opportunities for them to have that at their disposal. Anne Tala says there's data that pushes against the idea that an older workforce isn't as capable as a younger one. The IMF released a report last year that said that somebody that was aged 70 in 2022 has the same cognitive function as the average 53-year-old in 2000. We are healthier. We're taking better care of our bodies. We're focusing on brain health, and I think that's paying off in how our entire body age is, including our cognitive and brain abilities. So people are really more able to work much later into life than they would have been otherwise.

18:17Exactly. They say 70 is the new 50. What it comes down to is this. Retirement is not a one-size-fits-all model anymore. And it's certainly not the natural next step the day you turn 65. Just because we've been doing something the same way for the last 100 years doesn't mean we should continue doing it that way. I think it's time to maybe innovate and come up with new ideas and solutions of how we want to live what we call a 100-year life and what that could look like. Friday, we're going to be seeing a doctor and on Saturday, we'll get our eyes tested. We know what life's like when you get to our age, but that doesn't define you.

18:54What defines you? Who you are and the fun you can have. Billy Joel, it's still rock and roll to me. Good morning. I'm David Lloyd. This is Boom Radio UK. Thank you for joining us this morning. It is seven days a week. It is exhausting. There are times when I could scream, but the levels of fulfilment are just huge. It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I've ever done in my whole life. It means that if I die tomorrow, I've done it, you know.

19:28This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Stacey Mannick-Smith, in for Sarah Holder and David Gurra. To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg.com, subscribe today at Bloomberg.com slash podcast offer. If you like this episode, make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thank you for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

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