Lyft's New CEO Has a Plan To Compete — With David Risher

24:27Right. So, okay. So we're going to be dealing with the current economic situation and the current technology for a while. Yeah. You mentioned a few times that your business is really predicated on scale. You've helped increase the market share of Lyft a little bit since you've taken over. You're up to around 30 % now, but Uber is still the vast majority. So I'm puzzled by the situation where it's going to take scale, but you're a very clear number two in the market. So how do you figure that out? Yeah. Well, first, I mean, I appreciate your acknowledging that we've increased our share. And I think that's actually quite important.

25:06You know, it's not a leading indicator of particularly anything. It's more of a trailing indicator. You do good things for your riders. You do good things for your drivers. Your share should increase. And ours has gone from 26 to 27 to 28 to 29 to 30. We're actually just above 31 if you look at some of the public data now. And that's over a fairly short period of time. It may not sound like a lot, but actually, honestly, it is a fairly significant move over such a short period of time. Pepsi would kill for that kind of share gain versus Coke over any reasonable period of time. So anyway, on the one hand, pleased with what's happening because it shows that we're doing the right thing for riders and drivers.

25:40On the other hand, to your point, still got a long way to go. And I think the way, at least I think about it, is the first thing you have to do is get the basics right. But then you have to remind people why it's important that Lyft exist. And I'll give you a couple of ways to think about it. I think at the most basic level, you as a rider want to have two apps on your phone. You want two rideshare companies to exist because guess what? One of us is sometimes going to let you down. I hope it's never us, but it's going to happen. And so you're better off having two in the marketplace, actively competing with each other.

26:19So you get out of the movies and for whatever reason, one guy takes a long time, one guy's short, or one guy's prices are high, the other guy's whatever it is. Okay. Just think about that for a second. If everybody had two apps and if prices were more or less the same and we were competing in other ways, but let's set that aside for just a second, we'd have 50 % market share. Now we're not there because a lot of people don't have two apps. Kind of alluded to one reason before Uber has done a nice job with their Uber Eats. And so that's the thing that has some problems to it too, but let's, let's, let's give them a little credit.

26:50But anyway, so to start with, you kind of do the basics, right? Maybe you get to 50-50 just that way. No, but probably not. You probably have to remind people that you exist. You probably have to do a little bit of marketing. And so, you know, if you've been on TikTok recently, you might've seen some of the TikTok ads we've started to play around with. I've been on social, you've been on Twitter, been on threads. You see some of the, I think our social guys are having a great, great time right now, having a lot of fun. You've been on threads, but you know, this is kind Then you found someone named Uber who can't use the Uber app and you've like threaded with them.

27:22It's exactly right. There's a family whose name is Uber. They're like banned from Uber because Uber thinks they're imposters or something. They thought they're exactly some scammers. So they get like they try to sign up for Uber and they get this thing called like invalid. Like, OK, actually, you're not invalid. Your team just happens to be Uber. So anyway, yeah, we find exactly our social media guys. telling them. And it's kind of hilarious. We gave them a gift certificate and another, you know, pink customers. So you start to do that kind of thing. You start to remind people that you kind of want to companies out there, you know, kind of, kind of fighting for business a little bit.

27:58And then here's where I'll end on this point. You know, I drive for Lyft as well. And so when I drive for Lyft, of course, the first question out of my mouth is why did you choose Lyft? And I am so happy to report the number of people who say, you know what? I'd like lived better. You guys have values that align with mine. You're a friendlier company. You treat your drivers better. We have evidence to back these things up, by the way. I think we are a friendly company. We definitely treat our drivers well. So anyway, little by little, you start to differentiate yourself as a brand, as a service provider, because we create new services.

28:34And that's kind of how these things go. You're going to do carpools again?

28:42uh no not well it's an easy question a hard answer first so never say never right sure and in fact we do a limited amount of carpooling type stuff uh particularly around universities and some other particular settings where where that makes sense but broadly speaking i don't think i think it's a great example of a company getting it wrong. And here's what I mean by that. Let's step back for a second. As a rider, you want options, right? You want two apps maybe, but even within an app, you maybe want a way to save a little money sometimes versus not. And all of us, everyone likes a deal. So you have two different companies here.

29:26You've got Uber and let me describe the approaches on the uber side they have this thing which is kind of a carpooling type feature um kind of works like this you you know ask for a ride carpool picks you up you start on your way and then instead of going from point a to point b all of a sudden point c kind of inserts itself because you got to take a left turn to pick up another rider and then point d inserts itself because you got to drop off that other rider and then finally you get to point e which obviously is where you wanted to go in the first place, but it took you longer. And in the meanwhile, you're kind of going left to right in a strange way.

29:59You don't really like it as a driver, excuse me, as a rider, because it's sort of frustrating. You save a little money, but it's kind of like, and then drivers don't really like it either. Every time they do another pickup and drop off, it's kind of a, it's a little annoying. So anyway, but that's how they solve that problem. And they're very proud of it. And I'm excited that they're proud of it because I think it's a credit experience. What have we done? We've done something called wait and save. Very simple. So if you're willing to wait a little bit longer, have a little bit wider window on when the car picks you up, you save$2,$5,$10, whatever it is, depending on the length of the trip.

30:29Very straightforward. And we have found that we're so about 30 % of our rides are wait and save rides. That's a very big number. And what that suggests is customers really like it. Back when we did share it, because we were actually the ones who pioneered that one, I think we got up to maybe 15%, maybe something like that, because people don't really like it. And then COVID came and nobody liked it. But it's a great example of two different companies. And maybe we'll get it right someday. I don't know. Who knows? But I know this. It's cool to have two companies trying to focus on the same problem.

30:55And at least in my view, one solving it in a customer focused way and one solving it in a non-customer focused way. Yeah. So what is the focus? You're focusing on ride sharing. What does that mean for biking? I mean, I'm a user of City Bike. I use it with the Lyft app in New York. And I'm sure when I'm in San Francisco next week, I'll be doing the Lyft bike there. Is that something you're still committed to? Yeah. So first thing I have to say is I use it almost every day. In fact, I just used it 15 minutes ago to get to work this morning. Yeah. Look, I think biking is the future in a lot of ways.

31:28I mean, not for everybody, of course, but it's good for cities because it's, you know, it's greener, it's less polluting. It's a new mode of transportation that, in fact, often is faster than cars. If you've got, you know, gridlock and parts and so on and so forth, it's good for you, you know, healthy, gets you out. It's fun, particularly on e-bikes. You know, anyone who takes an e-bike, you know, they immediately tell 10 different people how awesome e-bikes are. Those things are too fast. It depends. It depends. Yeah, you have to get used to it. You have to get used to it. It's like a mini motorcycle.

31:56Well, it's not as fast as a motorcycle. But anyway, so look, so bikes are awesome. Now, in City Bike, you mentioned City Bike. I mean, just to give you a sense of the scale of that, we give over 100 ,000 City Bike rides a day, a day in New York City. That's a big deal. If you just look at that as a public transportation network, it's like the 30th biggest transportation network in the world or something like that. So it's just in New York City. It's huge. And you see bike lanes everywhere and all this stuff. So all that is all this great. We look at our bike business, very important to our customers, important to cities, important to the future of the planet, important to everything.

32:29But for us, we're also trying to think pretty carefully about how we can really give it the energy and focus it needs considering that we're really focused on rideshare. And so it's an active conversation internally and I'll just sort of leave it there, but we're super committed to the mode of transportation for sure. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned that you, you drive. Yeah. You know, I think that's good. Dara from Uber just like had this big, we've talked about that on the pod, but I had this big splashy profile in the wall street journal and talk about he's finally driving six years onto the job.

33:00Maybe we'll talk about that in the second half, but I mean, I think it is a moment that we should pause and talk a little bit about driver safety. So there was a story out of Washington, D.C. It's a very tragic story. Nasrat Ahmed Yar, he's 31. He was 31 years old. He was a translator of the U.S. Army in Afghanistan and moved to the U.S. to escape Taliban violence. He was shot and killed in D.C. I don't know if maybe you have some information. Was he on the on the clock? And I don't think these were passengers or not. But I don't know if you've commented on this publicly before. I'm curious if you could share your perspective and your thoughts here.

33:37I mean, my big perspective on him is it's an incredibly tragic situation. Awful. I mean, absolutely awful. He had driven for a Lyft. He wasn't actually a Lyft driver at that moment, but he had driven for a Lyft. It's absolutely awful and unacceptable. Maybe a long conversation about gun safety and so forth and so on, but that's a distraction. It's just absolutely awful. look driver safety is is super important and of course you'd expect the CEO of Lyft to say that but it's really true it's really true it's actually an area where drivers and riders have exactly the same perspective you know they both want a safe ride and we invest an enormous amount an enormous amount into safety both for riders and drivers I'll give you a couple of examples in every car there are two people in every car there are two people in every car and they both matter exactly the same amount.

34:26So exactly the same amount. We have to take care of them both. We have to give them both a great experience. I'm talking about from the rider experience, just because that's probably more familiar to most of your listeners. From a rider perspective, we will do things, and you might've gotten this yourself, where we will, of course, we've added in safety features, like you can alert us if something's going wrong during the ride. You can get a response from ADT. They will call 911 for you. They will leap into action. And this has happened. I've seen what happens when when when it's lucky it's very rare but you know that's the extreme case um there are many other cases that are much less extreme you know you feel uncomfortable and and you're of course allowed and encouraged to report that information and there's never any retribution for any of that so we spend a lot of energy making sure our riders feel um safe you even and perhaps you've gotten this notification if it um takes you longer than we expect to get to your destination or if it looks like you're going way off route you know we'll send you an alert saying, are you okay?

35:22We want to make sure everything is okay. So very, very important. It's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's a, it's a real focus. And then on drivers, we do a lot of upfront work, making sure that we give them information about how to anticipate potentially, you know, what could be a difficult situation. Of course, all of our drivers themselves go through background checks and so on and so on and so forth. But, you know, you know, crazy things can happen and sometimes terrible, terrible, tragic things can happen. And so all I can say is It's an area of just massive and ongoing focus for us to try to figure out how to create a safe experience as we can.

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37:42and we're back here on big technology podcast with david rischer he's the ceo of lyft and you're also employee like 37 at amazon i was that's right so i'm kind of curious what you you've definitely employed some jeff bezos systems at uh at lyft you have the david at email similar to how it's David at Lyft, right? Similar to how Jeff Bezos has, I think he still has Jeff at Amazon.com and he actually reads those. What sort of Amazon leadership lessons are you putting into place inside Lyft? By the way, the idea of like, it's so interesting because Lyft is this, you know, kind of viewed as this kind of warm and fuzzy culture and Amazon, you know, public imagination is the opposite.

38:28So it is kind of interesting seeing the two meld in some way. Go ahead. That's an interesting observation. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, I learned so much from Jeff, so much from Jeff. And, and, uh, but, but the single biggest thing was if you obsessively focus on your customers, again, we have riders and drivers as ours, you will build a great business. And it's, it's, it's almost, you know, just like the sun will come up tomorrow morning, you know, you have to work at it. It doesn't come automatically, but, but, but, but, but it will happen. A single biggest thing for sure. But that's so easy to say and yet really hard to pull off day after day after day.

39:08And I'm glad you bring up my email address. Yeah, it's david at lift.com. And I read those. You know, I'm not the only one who reads those, to be honest. I have other people who also help me out trying to sort of sort through. And it's one of the first things I do every single morning. My staff knows this because shortly after I wake up, I read them. And then shortly after that, they sometimes get messages that have questions. So Jeff Bezos used to send those forward them with question marks when he didn't like what he was seeing. Do you do the same thing? I don't. I've read that. I've never been on the receiving end of just a question mark.

39:39You never got a question mark email? No, that sounds pretty scary to me. No, I don't do that. No, but I will sometimes say kind of like, you know, kind of what's going on here? Like, this doesn't sound right to me. I'll tell you, I'll give you an example just from last night. Last night, someone found me. I actually got contact with him in a different way on social media. and they described with such clarity what was going on. It was very frustrating. They were a driver who was very frustrated about a certain set of things. And I responded to him and he would then even have his, it's probably, I'm not sure that this is okay to do, but we'll see if we can do this kind of in real time.

40:12Maybe I can. Yeah, well, I'll, oh, you know what? It's going to take me a second to find this. But anyway, he responded to me with it. So I responded quite quickly. And he said, just the fact that you responded means so much to me. That's all he said. And because he has identified some issues, which we're going to look into. But in a certain sense, it starts with just being willing to listen and just being willing to act on that, not just sort of have it go into some, you know, some filter system. So anyway, that's the start. But it's not the ending point. The ending point is you've got to really have empathy.

40:43You've got to really put yourself in the shoes of customers. And you have to figure out a way to make sure that the whole organization is doing the same. And here I'm just going to quote Jeff. I mean, Jeff talks about three types of companies, the ones that are customer focused, the ones that are product focused, the ones that are competitor focused. And as he says, all three can be successful. All three can be successful. There's no necessarily right or wrong answer. But at least in his view, and I've come to appreciate this view, if you've got to choose one, choose the customer way. And that's how I run the business.

41:14Yeah. And so Jeff Bezos also had his senior leadership team, the S team. You have your own senior leadership. You have like a fun name for it. It's like the supernova of supporting, you know, superstars. What is it? That's not us. That's somebody else. I think so. We actually, it's funny to say that we actually are just renaming it. We just renamed it a couple of days ago. It's called the PDT purpose driven team. And the reason we call it the purpose driven team is we, you know, I mentioned quickly in the first half of the pod, this idea that an organization has to have a reason. has to have a Y.

41:52And we have a Y in our name. So I guess in some ways that comes for free, but we have to have a Y, W-H-Y. And our Y, bigger than just building a profitable business, bigger than building a business that's great for shareholders and employees and so on and so on, all those things matter. But really our Y has to do with bringing people together. And I want to riff on this for just a second, if you'll indulge me. There are so many things in our daily lives, so many mechanisms that keep us on the couch, watching a movie at home, eating pizza alone, to sound a little tragic about it, divided as a country.

42:29So from the biggest to the smallest, on our phones, loving Twitter, sure, maybe not so much anymore, loving threads because it's kind of fun, whatever it might be, whatever it might be. So many temptations to interact directly with technology. But Lyft isn't that. Lyft is not that. There's no interest in just interacting with technology when it comes to Lyft. It's about getting you out. You got to get out. You got to get out to see your friends. You got to get out to go to work. You got to go to take a trip, whatever it is. You got to go pick up your mom, whatever it might be. And so, and that, and in some ways, there's a quote that I'm kind of falling in love with, which is, what if the next social app is Lyft?

43:06And think about that because that's what we really, really want. We want people out. We want people out. We want people connected. I think as a society I'm talking about, I'm talking about just live. So I see that as a very, very important role we play in the world. And anyway, I'll just stop there. Yeah. There's a couple more things I definitely want to get to before we go. So pardon the harsh transition, but artificial intelligence is sort of animating the tech sector right now. And it seems to be that, you know, there's a lot to talk about it. People are buying a ton of GPUs. And this is pushing up the stock of like seven companies, which we've talked about in the first half.

43:41And the rest of the tech industry is like, huh? And I'm curious, you're a CEO of a public tech company. It'd be great to have your thought on this one. And am I alone in thinking that we still need to see products from these companies? Especially, I mean, I'm also in particular curious how you think Amazon is going to handle this? Yeah. Well, I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask about the Amazon question. I can speculate. But I can tell you that it is game-changer. We like speculation here. We encourage you. And it usually doesn't stop me, so I'll get there. But no, look, it's a game-changer.

44:17It is. And the hype cycle is a little nuts, and discount that by a little bit. But we've used artificial intelligence sort of, let's say, it used to be called machine learning for a long, long time. But this is particularly about generative AI. And that's exactly, so that's the big new thing. Generative AI is the big new thing. And oh my God, we see it all the time. We see it as a way, of course, just to start with absolute basics to help our engineers be more productive because it kind of, kind of helped them write code more efficiently. Let me ask you about that. I, you know, I just want to, sorry to interrupt you, but this GitHub, you know, the co-pilots out there, every CEO I speak with say, yeah, we're doing it.

44:56And then I say, have you seen the productivity increase yet? And they're like, I'm still looking for it. Are you there? No, but I think I know why. I was talking to an engineer just yesterday on this, and he said, it's probably saving me about a half an hour a day of menial work. That's the very important part, by the way. That's just a half an hour a day. It's the stuff that he didn't wake up getting excited to do, and now something else does it work. I will tell you, I suspect that half hour is somewhat offset by playing around and goofing around and trying to figure out what's going on, you know, and how does it work and so forth and so on.

45:29So, you know, there's, there's often, I'd say a J curve of these things, right? Things get less productive before more. I don't know, right now it's probably more like 50, 50. In other words, for every minute you spend goofing around, you get a minute of productivity back something, but you're not going to see massive productivity gains in the short term. What you will see though, are developers, engineers, hopefully, hopefully saying I'm able to spend my same X hours a day doing stuff that I enjoy more, having a better time and having higher quality results. A lot of the stuff that's getting done now around using AI for engineers, aside from kind of completing lines of code and so forth, is test suites, right?

46:02And testing, some people love it. A lot of people don't love it so much. But over time, if you get better testing, you have higher quality. So I think the quality will improve faster than productivity. I think productivity will follow up. But let me move beyond that, because I think that's just sort of a starting point. It's a little bit technical. The way we've traditionally used ML machine learning inside is driver, rider, matching, right? Millions of riders, millions of riders and lots of data, right? Oh, Rogue gets closed. How do we think about that? Well, we can use AI to sort of predict or to kind of see patterns and say, oh, that Rogue Trump gets closed.

46:33So let's root people around it. That's, you know, kind of basic stuff, but it's hard, but it's kind of basic. But now come to a world where you as a rider have a problem. You know, I lost my iPhone. Oh my God. Right now, terrible is terrible. It's the worst. It's a terrible feeling. You almost feel like you're naked. So, and right now, honestly, it takes us a little bit too long to kind of deal with it. It's hard for everybody. I mean, you don't necessarily have a way to get in contact with us because your phone isn't there, then your phone's moved around the city because it's in a car and all this sort of stuff.

47:00But we can look at that and we can use some fairly trivial, honestly, but still requiring a little bit of sophistication, algorithms to try to sort of detect that maybe even before you know it. Because typically, if you get out of the car and your phone stays in the car, something strange just happens. It's sort of obvious. So that's a sort of way. A lot of customer service really can be improved with AI, not just cost out, all that sort of stuff people think about, but you literally can get a faster, better response using AI. And then for drivers, I think there's so many interesting opportunities for us to figure out a way to help drivers figure out, for example, how to make more money.

47:36Drivers want to make more money. And by the way, this is a little bit of a side brag, but our driver earnings are up about 10 % since we started to roll out some new features recently, because we really do want our drivers to make more money. There's a cap. I mean, obviously they can't take all the money. Otherwise we get none of the money. But anyway, we want them to make more money. AI can help. It can help by giving them, gosh, we've looked at what you do here. Here's some times of day that you might want to drive based on your patterns. You seem to like to drive around this time of day. But if you've driven on Tuesday instead of Wednesday, you might have made a little bit more money.

48:07Safety too, right? We can start to try to figure out ways to say, and we already do this to a certain extent. Gosh, your driving is a little bit more aggressive than some people's. And so you might like that, but I'm here to tell you, you know, you're actually putting yourself a little bit of vehicular danger when you do that. So I think there's so many ways. Yeah. Okay. We have just a few minutes left. I have three questions for you. So let's see if we can lightning round our way through the end here. Yeah. Let me get the actual stat because I want to talk to you about executive compensation.

48:34So your counterpart at Uber, Derek Oshisari, made$24 million last year and Uber stock fell 40 % last year. should Dara make less money? And how do you, how much money do you make? And do you think that's fair? Okay. A lot packed into that. That's a hard lightning round. I'll say this. I, whether you should make more or less money as you know, the, their, their board can figure that out. Here's what I know. My compensation is 90 plus percent, 98%. I don't know. I'm tied to our stock performance. And that was a conversation I had with the board when I took the job. I said, I don't really want stock that kind of vests over time, independent of how I do, or shares that are given to me independent of how the company does.

49:17That to me doesn't seem right. What I do think is appropriate for CEOs is to have my stock very, very tightly tied to company performance. And so as our stock goes up, more shares get released. If our stock doesn't go up at all, I get paid just to be a salary. Okay. I think that's a good system. That's better than the other one. I can comment on it. It's not a problem. Go for it. Yeah. I saw on Twitter, there was someone saying massive scam going on with city bike, that there are teens that are scratching out and removing numbers on the e-bikes so they can have a permanent hold on the bikes, basically allow it to reserve.

49:53I bet you can reserve it so no one else can scan them or get the number. Are you aware of this? What do you think about it? Yeah. Yeah. And we're stopping. How? I don't want to go into details, but yeah, no, for sure. It's super annoying. One of the things that is quite irritating to me personally is, you know, this is, this is property that is literally like there for public use. And then, yeah, some people occasionally figure out ways to steal these things and stealing doesn't work for me. I don't think it's a good idea. So we're going to stop it. Okay. You're eager to see what happens there.

50:23I've seen it on my local one also. So raising my hand to saying this is an issue. Okay. The last one is I asked people on threads and Twitter, you know, what I should be asking about ride hailing. And we had some person say, I'm just going to quote him, Brian Morrissey, who writes the rebooting, friend of the program. He goes, why did they lie about how far away the car is? So I think that's a little bit harsh, but I have had situations where like, even this past weekend, I was like in a kind of a remote part of New York and request a Lyft. It says it's going to be there. We'll find you a car within eight minutes or whatever.

50:59And it never shows up. So what's going on there? Yeah. So we don't lie. We tell the truth as we know it. sometimes things happen, right? Traffic happens, traffic chat happens, whatever, whatever. The case you're talking about, it's very, very frustrating. You know, you have to remember that when you push that button, we start immediately to look at who can pick you up the fastest. But it's not entirely our decision, right? We put it out there. We make a good guess of how fast we think you're going to match with the driver, but drivers can say yes or no. And if several drivers say no, then we have to do a certain set of things that try to figure out ways to broaden the circle to more people and so on and so on and so forth.

51:39And sometimes we get it wrong. We try to be as accurate as possible. It serves nobody, nobody for us to be inaccurate. So no, no incentive at all for us to get that one wrong. You might think we have, nah, it's not, it just piss you off and you won't drive or ride with us again. So that's bad. But we have work to do and we do it every day to try to make those estimates better and try to give drivers fewer reasons to say no, because that ultimately is what's driving that problem. Interesting. Yeah, I think just as a user, a piece of feedback is it would be great to have a notification that says like you might be in a Lyft desert.

52:14I know that's probably counterproductive to what you guys are trying to do, but I think that would, you know, it gives you an opportunity to more quickly look for another means of transportation as opposed to holding the app open as your battery goes down and praying that someone will accept your ride. That's a good suggestion. I like that. David Richard, thanks so much for joining. It has been a ton of fun, Alex. Thanks for the questions. Even the harsh and probing ones were fun. So thanks for doing your homework too. Of course. The questions were great. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you rolling with all of them.

52:43And hopefully we can make this a recurring thing. We'd love to have you back. I look forward to it. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, David, for being here. Thank you, Nate Colotney, for handling our audio. Lift for making this happen. LinkedIn for having me as part of your podcast network. And most of all, to all of you, the listeners, appreciate you being here week after week. We'll see you on Friday for another show where we break down the news. And we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast.