Ian Ousley on Style, Sokka, and Starting Before You’re Ready

0:28This podcast is brought to you by Jeremy. After a bit of a whirlwind slash whiplash trip, I was in Palm Springs over last week working on a little project, which you'll see soon. It was fun. But great trip. Hot as hell. Yep. And I'll tell this story real quick before we jump in. And man, so I get out there. Everything's amazing. stayed at the Thompson beautiful hotel incredible hotel um you know it's a nice pool nice restaurants big showers all the little things that you're like you know would be nice if dot dot dot everything was awesome but then you know all things must pass and my trip ends and I'm heading back and I get on the plane in Palm Springs Airport I'm heading to Denver where I'm going to connect and fly to St.

1:31Louis. You know, kids start school this week, doing all this stuff, excited to be back home. And then they're like, oh, captain's like, and I was like, oh, crap. So we're in circles. We're circling, bad weather, circling again, circling again. And I just watch my layover window just shrink. Boop, boop, boop. It's just going down. And the guy's sitting next to me and he's like, I bet you're going to miss your flight. And I was like, yeah, thanks. Thanks, Sherlock. And of course, I missed my flight. Then I'm just bumming around Denver Airport like an idiot, just getting my steps in. God knows what I'm doing.

2:14And next thing you know, I'm like, oh, plane's delayed. Oh, still delayed. Still delayed. And then I was like, man, I'm not going to get back till like 1.30 in the morning now. and they're like, oh, by the way, there's a maintenance issue. I mean, it was just one thing to another. But the bigger thing is it was this like incredible whiplash trip where, you know, I'm flying high, literally and figuratively, hanging out, wonderful group of people in Palm Springs, amazing hotel, to next thing you know, I'm staying at like the Hilton Garden Inn and it's just this, you know, it's just a total polar extreme.

2:55uh i'm i'm humbled as always so it's a nice little reminder that uh you know it's the things things aren't always as uh as nice as what they look but it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because i'm back and i'm back uh we got a new pod this week this was uh this was a very fun special episode ian owsley not sure if you're familiar with him uh if not you should be he's uh sokka and avatar the last airbender the actual like the netflix show like the real person show like he's he's the real person um oh it was great but we had a super good chat because he's he's a big clothing dude uh has run his own brand i mean it's it's great so we talk about filming avatar the last airbender, finding personal style through travel, which that was very curious about what you all will think about this.

3:52Shopping for archive fashion in Tokyo. You know, you know, we got to talk about Japan. And then in all the years he spent learning how clothes are actually made. I will say this. He is not a kid. But man, the young folks, they're all right. He knows what he's doing. He's got his head on straight. He's got great taste. But he also is interesting talking to him, as I'm sure you'll hear, in that he really approaches fashion and getting dressed in this educational learning way. It was beautiful. So I'm excited for you all to hear. All right, let's get to it. Here's my talk with Ian Owsley.

4:35Are you based in LA? I am based in LA. Yeah. How long have you lived there? 10 years. Kind of. Okay. Like, I would say it's always been my base, but when I was shooting Avatar, I was in Vancouver for over a year for the first season. And then for season two and three, I was there for over a year again. So I was living in Vancouver for two of those 10 years. Okay, so you're filming this place for a year, right? Like, do you have a house there? Do you have a life there? Do you? I mean, what are the day-to-day things that keep you grounded versus having to go and go into character and being Sokka?

5:09Yeah. I mean you definitely live there I had an apartment there uh you relocate there if you're um there for a certain amount of time um and they like give you money to like relocate your life um praise god and so yeah I was in Vancouver but some of the things that I was doing I mean it almost sounds performative because we're talking about we're in a fashion podcast world but genuinely it is wild um how different like fashion changes from different parts of world that you're in vancouver is like survival gear and it was also really interesting because it was at the peak of like everyone in la was wearing an arcterics jacket even though it's never snowed ever once in the last 200 years there just kidding i'm sure it's happened once or whatever but it was like frank ocean wore it and then it was like so i got my first like arcterics jacket and was just trying to like i guess adapt to the fashion world there but there's not a lot out in vancouver I will say um there's like hidden gems and that's honestly what makes it kind of cool is I got really involved with like the fashion community in Vancouver like whatever is there of it I would say um that's what I was doing I was going to Gastown and kind of just like walking around um and there's actually like some pretty good vintage there I would say uh in Vancouver but and then there's like Haven and there's Roden yeah I was gonna say I mean yeah you you have You have some good retail stores out there.

6:39Good retail stores. Haven, though, you got to go in there and be ready to sell your leg to get a cool jacket or something. Yeah? I mean, did you go to Neighbor? Because Neighbor's in Vancouver. Neighbor's awesome. They have a bunch of subsidiary stores. So they have a women's and a men's, and now they have a home goods and stuff like that store. And then they also have a whole separate part of neighbor that is um like for kind i guess like more like upcoming brands like brands that like not like taiga takahashi or whatever it's like the even more uh kind of niche stuff i guess yeah yeah so there's cool there's but not like what i mean by that is like you're people are mostly dressing to not get wet and then it's functional yeah it's functional yeah and then if they if they are like dressing up it's only for those like two and a half months in the summer where it's not like raining every single day yeah it's not like new york every time you go to new york somebody's outside trying to look like a character you know like yeah yeah new york is there's still that's the thing that i i miss a bunch like kind of living in the suburbs is a lot of times i was like oh no it's like have i have i worn baggies like four days this week because i'll get up I'll take the kids to school or whatever summer stuff or whatever they have going on.

8:05I go to the gym and then I'm like, eh, you know, I got to go work. I got to do whatever. I'll just keep the baggies on. But I was like, I don't got a runway. There's no place where you're like, you know, check out these new pants. You're just like, you go back. But I do think, on the other hand, sometimes when you're around those situations, say in your case Vancouver it's like you realize in a good way one how much space and like potential there is for brands to grow and I think sometimes when you're able to disconnect from the rat race of it all because even say New York like it's great yes you can go and you cruise down to Orchard and you go to all the cool shops and you sit at every bench and drink 600 espressos but like the eventually you get a bit burnt out and you're like yeah but what are people just like really wearing to just exist the people that don't that aren't like trying to shop online all day or aren't trying to commute you know communicate all these things about themselves without you know like what are the things that that are going through their minds and it's also when you realize you're like oh shit there's a lot of people that are wearing lululemon man yeah oh yeah there is are you joking they make so much money i mean there is a lemon on like every quarter of vancouver it felt like um but yeah no i mean i i relate to that i mean i'm here in madrid right now and um it's cool i think that there's that bridge that like everyone's trying to get to to some degree in fashion like you get like too into it and then you wake up and you realize that you're just trying to fit in as well like you're trying to like buy everything to like fit in and you're like you the whole narrative is like express yourself be who you want to be with your clothes and then you're like wait i'm just buying all of this stuff because like somebody else will know what it is and then like but in europe it's like you see somebody is so many people reach i feel like swag equilibrium like swag equilibrium i don't know why i can't say that but like where they have like some linen shorts that go past their knees and like flip-flops and like the coolest like cut tank top and like some personal jewelry and you're like yeah dang why is that way cooler than like everything that i'm seeing online well you're tugging at personal style and fashion clothes because you're right like there are folks i you know i go to europe for the shows but usually like paris and and florence or milan or whatever and um so i'm there during you know i was there in June when it was just so hot that it people were dying yeah nobody wants to put anything on yeah and then you know and then otherwise I'll be there in January where it's great and everyone can wear coats but you always see you know those four or five just old dudes that are walking around pushing their bike you know cigarette or something in hand and you're like man they look so cool I'm like what is it what is it that they're wearing and it's just yeah like you see the personal style of some of these folks and for me like that always helps re-center what you know because i feel like we always all of us will get dressed and we we have the person in our head that we want us to look like and then you have the person that you actually look like when you get dressed right but you have a swag gap with yourself yeah but like i'll see those guys i'm like man what are they doing like what is it that they have that looks so good and it's like oh it's it's personal style it's personal style and it's like personal it's like whatever they're wearing they're wearing it because it's functional to their life too i feel like is what i've learned like when i went to japan for the first time in january i know okay literally just a shot literally just a shot like went everywhere yeah dude of course um but you get um well you tell me your story and then tell me what you got um but i would just see like older i think like older people in Japan have such like a like what you're talking about like in Paris where you see like a guy that's just like living their life and it's something about that that's like inspirational for some reason because the silhouettes it's not everything you're seeing online it's not like I saw a guy with like rain boots on and swim shorts and like a chef's top on and for some reason the way that he's wearing it smoking a cigarette and he had like this like bandana that he'd turn into like a folded hat i was like yeah okay so that i'll never be that cool ever this guy's like 80 years old and he's just on his smoke break i don't know i feel like we all can uh relate to that but i got um i went out there for archive i don't know i was excited for like archive stuff yeah and there wasn't like there i went to all the spots and there wasn't like as much as I was hoping for meaning like there was a lot but there wasn't like it wasn't unbelievably cheap like I feel like how it was oh no of course not how it was uh describing yeah it's back yeah no no no they figured it out but um I got like this Raph Simmons blazer that I've been wearing a lot um okay like 2007 I got this Raph 2002 red shirt okay I got this and I got this and a mila meester uh like white long sleeve that's like also has like a tie thing a part of it which was cool i got these and mila meester pants that's my favorite brand um just good one from like yeah uh well antwerp six action i get it a little antwerp you know i'm young maybe maybe i'll learn something one day besides outside of it but i think you could stay there forever and many people do and they are doing just yeah yeah um and what else did i get i got these uh rolling dub trio uh boots oh those were like probably one of the best investments i've ever made um and they were this like special like limited pair that they had that's gweedy leather yeah so they have this like one model of their boot that's like their own um but they did it in gweedy leather and it just happened to be like the release date was the the week that i was there So it was funny.

14:24We had to like, we got there at like 8am and instead of, they have it way better, like figured out than we do for releases. And we thought we were like totally good. Me and my friend that were there for them. And we had to put our names down and they were just like, we'll just give you a call when people are done, like trying these on and, you know, hopefully there'll be one. And so we had to wait around that area all day. And then we got a call at like 430. Like, okay, you're good. Come on in. kind of that's yeah it's funny because you're right i do think there is the idea of what it's like to shop in japan and to which everyone's like oh the country's on sale the yen is super low like i'm gonna get this and this and i'm gonna buy all these things and i have a lot of friends who uh buy watches or they'll buy like archival stuff or things like that and it's like well first of all that stuff's priced on a global scale yeah because they're looking at you know so sure yeah you you might pay in yen but you're gonna pay what the market price is but i do think if you're just buying and shopping regular retail stuff i'm whomever does all the like buying or the school of buying for people in japan it's like the best and most efficient buys ever because everything sells out it's true and they never have anything left and if you don't get it on release day you're basically you know you're out of luck you're cut and yeah it's in my head i'm like that's so stupid that's not fair i wish i could get this i wish and you're like oh that actually is the point yeah they make you know a small designer will make i'm making this up 24 pieces they'll sell all 24 within a week or so and that's it success move on and you're just you're like what i don't i don't know how this works i want to have like 400 and i want you know but um yeah i mean japan got it they got it down and everything is like lottery and waiting in line and uh but it's out there but luckily you're not like stuff sitting out there like a supreme line or something and like in the outside the building just like hoping and praying you like get in there and they have your size unless you're doing goros because that's goros for you what is that goros yeah goros uh have you ever seen those they're like the feather necklaces oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so goro takahashi who did he was like the the i'm gonna give a very abridged story sure so um basically goro takahashi was this old school japanese guy who supposedly came to the u.s and was like accepted by the american indians like indigenous people in the united states and he learned how to make metal jewelry silver silver jewelry excuse me and he made these like beautiful things and then he came back like like most sort of amazing japanese success stories i mean uh if you look at hiroshi nakamura visvam his big thing is like he went to alaska and he hung out with these indigenous people and got that's where he got the inspiration for the fbt but guru takashi goes there this is in like the 70s he comes back opens up this shop and sells these you know little feather pendants and they blow up and then eric clapton gets into it and you have all these huge people who get all into goros and goros got so big like john mayer wears tons of goros it got so big that um they switched to like buying through lottery and the way it is now is they have certain days of the week open for um non-citizens so otherwise you have to have a japanese like residence card oh wow to keep people from like buying and flipping and then you go in and you do a raffle you do the drawing and whatever number you get determines your place in the line when they open the line.

18:06So there's a line to draw a number to get in the line. No, what? And then you go in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lottery to get in the line. It's a, yeah, it's a lottery to get like a place in line. And then it's like, oh, okay, you got a low number or a high number. It's like, okay, I got a good number this day. And then you go in and it's a very, very tiny spot. It's like smaller than this room I'm recording in. And they're like, what do you want? Well, and you can ask for anything, but it all depends on what you're going to get. and then you'll you know but there's like a certain rule it's like okay you can get a feather you know silver tip you know maybe a gold tip feather is like your second or third time you get a regular silver feather the first time you won't get a chain they'll give it to you on a leather like a leather string first and you but basically it's this whole process that rewards return customers devoted customers and then you see like different types of things that they've over time that show how long someone's been shopping.

19:04So like you'll see some of these guys and they wear like an entire eagle. And the eagle is one thing. And then all the little feathers hang from the eagle. And it just shows that they've been there this many times. It's crazy. Wow, dude, that's interesting. I mean, it's kind of cool. Like if you like it's a cool business model, if you don't want your stuff to get just like flipped for like and actually try to build a community around it. Correct. But it's also, it becomes the, you know, the scapegoat for why people hate shopping or why, or like a friend of mine is like, I hate going to Japan. Everything's in line and everything is like, it's better, you know, online than what you see in person and the experience is rough and they don't like this.

19:49And it's like, okay, sure. But a lot of times people will blame Goros for that, but they kind of set the tone and the standard for, yeah i mean because visvum is all now i didn't know right i'm fully tapped out i feel crazy i didn't know this because i know what you're talking about but i feel like i see like if i'm not wrong like capital makes stuff like that now and i'm sure there's lots of other brands that have like kind of gotten on that but i didn't know that that was like the origin yeah i mean john mayer have like the biggest collection of visvum also like ever i wonder if he's like with this brand too yeah he has a ton of he has a ton of goros but to be honest all credit to mayor after eric clapton eric clapton set the standard and if mayor's even listening whatever like it was clapton first clapton was the first with the rolexes clapton was the first with goros the first with visvum and i will say mayor doesn't wear visvum anymore but it is funny because people like john mayor are like this barometer of cool and it's not because of how john mayor looks it's because of like he's there are people and it sounds like you got to experience this too in japan where the system like going through the system of getting what you want is the rite of passage you know there's so much it feels like everything that you get there clothing wise or anything you earned it as well as bought it yeah honestly yeah like at least like finding it you know like that's the first part of it is like trying to find it and like find something unique and cool and the city's also huge and so much there's so much everywhere that it almost feels like walking into like some of my favorite stores are stores that have really good stuff but only if you know how to find the good stuff yeah and my first time being in Tokyo very much felt like that like thankfully I had a lot of friends that were just like in the fashion community and like I was in Berlin right before and I met this one guy who had he was like oh you're going to Japan that's awesome i lived there for three years and he was also like the coolest looking guy that i've ever seen and i was like do you have like any recommendations and he was like oh yeah yeah i have a few and then he pulls out a google map of like every store in japan and i was like like just a beam of light just came down from the sky so lots of my coolest stuff definitely came from that map of stuff one of the coolest things that i got while i was in japan i got this vintage um panasonic like old film uh jacket and it's like a perfect like i don't know it almost looks like a military jacket the way that it's cut but it has these two um camera pouches for like batteries and it the jacket itself probably weighs at like genuinely 15 pounds or something because you unzip it's like all this super super heavy hardware stuff and you unzip and you can do it on either side um these attachments and then there's even more attachments like under the vest so you can either wear it without these but i've never found it since like i was like my friend who's like a director and a photographer really cool guy he wore it on a i offered to like have him borrow it because he was going to do like still photography for a movie in oklahoma and he was like fell in love with it well he was just shooting photos for me and uh i was like i'll i'll try to source one for you and i couldn't find anything like it like at all like nothing even close and i was like oh whoa this is kind of kind of sick so i feel like that's kind of the coolest stuff to get but that's what i didn't imagine because i go to the rose bowl a lot um was a lot of this stuff is uh like the archival stuff obviously is a lot of it's from italy a lot of it's like european and then uh some of those stores like the one that i'm talking about where i got that camera jacket was like all these gnarly world war ii jackets from like different countries that were a part of world war ii uh by like section of country and then like they also had like a the whole first floor was just stone island uh like old old stone island stuff so dang interesting yeah i'll have to get that i i had there in october i'll have to get there you go yeah i got you get your recs i got you it's I have a Google map similar to what your buddy had, where it's just like, oh, these are all the places that I want to go to.

24:09And some of them you're like, oh, what's Freak Store? And what's this? And what's, you know, all these, because the names don't make any sense for me, which I love and respect. But it's not like Vintage Stone Island Store. You're just like, oh, no, that's called like Left Center Hard Right. And you're like, oh, okay, sure. That makes sense. Yep, exactly. Exactly. So are you like in the cast and the crew? Are you kind of like setting the tone for the fits? No, I wouldn't say that. Me and Dallas are both like Dallas is Dallas Lewis, the guy who plays Zuko on the show. He's also like very much into fashion.

24:51And we also have like pretty similar taste, I think, honestly, from being in Vancouver for so long as well. because a lot of the stuff that I was doing was like vintage related before I got on the show. Our styles are like kind of diverging now. I think that we've had some space outside of Vancouver. But yeah, I mean, Gordon, who is the main kid, looks like a mix mash of like, because he also has like all of me and Dallas's hand-me-downs too. so he's like fully looks like a like our son like he always looks like uh some mix of us but he's also now like coming into his own style as well because it's very different because he also has that like vancouver influence of like i'm not wearing gorpi stuff beanies every day you know i'm saying stuff like yeah um yeah or yeah like other other gorpi stuff but they're also really into Stussy um there the lines for Stussy were like insane uh in Vancouver yes yeah oh wow like wild similar with um I got spoiled there a little bit just because we were friends with some of the guys that were uh a part of that store just for years like before it even had this like kind of resurgence season one we were going there and getting like hoodies and t-shirts and like essential essentials um and yeah i went to i but i walked past a store in new york recently stucy had a line out like by a block and similar with stucy's back i was in uh oahu and that store was completely around the corner as well dang it's pretty wild yeah yeah yeah well it also it sounds like i mean obviously with what you're doing and filming i mean you're all over the place so like having to dress for multiple seasons you know um and i don't mean multiple seasons of the show i mean no like yeah like you're traveling yeah okay wait a second look sometimes i gotta hit that pause button in here to tell you something as you know i've been collecting watches for 15 plus years now even more than i've been doing this podcast i got mickey mouse watches I got Snoopy.

27:02I even got some heavy hitters in there, including my prized Seikos. And you're like, Jeremy, I know, but I'm always nervous about buying watches. It's kind of weird out there on the internet. Well, that's why your boy uses Bezel. Bezel is an incredible trusted marketplace to find and buy your next dream watch or even that new daily driver. They even have their own auctions all backed and vetted by their incredible team of authenticators and experts. By the way, they're real people. It's not some tacky AI. That's super easy. You can contact their concierge team and say, hey, I'm looking for this or I'm looking for that, and they'll find it for you.

27:42And next thing you know, you'll receive that perfect watch. You can rest easy knowing it's authentic, correct, and now in the perfect spot on your wrist. So if you're looking for a new Speedmaster, Datejust, or you just want something fun and weird, visit getbezel.com and find your next watch at getbezel.com. Wait, wait, what? Oh, you already did this? Oh, you just want to make sure that your new toy now stays safe. Look, I get it. Because now Bezel offers insurance for your collection, even if you didn't purchase from them. So find it, buy it, or bid on your next watch at getbezel.com. And insure it while you're at it at getbezel.com.

28:28um but it is i do think it's you know i feel like you also everyone hits the age where they're like okay i have the brands that i liked when i started to get into clothes and now i have the brands that i like because i'm not like i'm becoming me right you know like have you know have you looked at old photos of yourself and you're like yeah i don't dress that way anymore of course of course i have The thing that pisses me off more than anything else is a lot of those are from season one because I had to wear a hat all of season one because they didn't want the haircut to come out. And I've never worn hats or beanies in my life.

29:06But every time I went to the grocery store or to a vintage shop or to go eat, I had a hat on. And I hate the fits that I put together in season one. And then one day near the end of season three, Gordon starts making fun of making fun of me, making fun of a fit that I had on in season one. And I grabbed him by his little bald head. And I was like, I crawled through the mud so that you could run. You were so much cooler than me when I was 19. Well, you're 15 years old because of this photo. You better be grateful. but yeah no of course like i don't know i was like 14 when um or like probably a little older than like 15 when like supreme was at its hype in la so oh that was one of the most interesting things was like sneaker culture anytime like an episode of like sneaker shopping came out i was watching like every episode of um joe budden and academics podcast like i was really into like the complex world yeah did you ever go to like complex con there was a festival in long beach and i was honestly like too young like one of my one of my older friends like took me to it and i can't i don't think it was i can't remember if it was complex con i know the like festival itself was called like i think it was agenda and i don't think it's around anymore but it was a crazy set but there was like a complex booth there at least but i wasn't like i don't know i wasn't also um like well off enough to be like also in these i guess as like cool like i couldn't like buy any of the sneakers or anything um like i remember one uh week i got on the supreme app and i got like a beanie and they were only like they were 54 which was a lot of money for me but it was like not like a ton like a like a hundred and twenty dollar t-shirt or something so i was like yeah let's go i wore that beanie like every day like a bright red supreme beanie um yeah so not my proudest photos in some of those because i wasn't like but i was i was skating too so i was trying to like i think you're like look i had to have the supreme because i was also skating but it's also like not a good purchase it's like 90 degrees in the summer in north hollywood and like I have a red Supreme beanie on like and no shirt like trying to not die of a heat stroke but I mean it sounds like you're also figuring that stuff out too because you know it's in a lot of ways I think it's good when it happens at the age you were talking about because I have some friends where you know they're in their 40s they're now doing pretty good financially and they're just throwing a ton of money at the like figure out your fit style where you know a friend of mine, he listens to this show and he makes very good money, works in tech and does this thing.

32:01And he's like, oh, I hired a stylist. And I was like, for what? And he was like, you know, to kind of like help me figure out what I'm doing. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, oh, well, they go and they shop for me. And I was like, dude, you're at a computer all day. I was like, just go to like Mr. Porter or whatever and just start like, you don't need to hire the stylist and figure it out. And then he showed me all this stuff his stylist picked out for him. And it's all like Balenciaga like big like it's just it's rich clothes right versus it's your rich costume yeah exactly and look no shots to balenciaga but like no i mean yeah for my friend in this state of his life i was like maybe that's not who you want to be like maybe yeah go get some tailored clothing the yeah the bright pink sock shoes maybe not this time yeah yeah and it but he's like trying to figure it out and you know and this has happened for a year so now where you know like for me too like if if there's a brand that i like i get very very very into it to where it's like i'm gonna wear the whole thing head to toe it's like rick owens head to toe tom brown whatever i'm gonna do and then you'll be like okay i actually just like this one thing from this brand or this one thing from this brand and then but you do have to kind of buy it all to figure out your style it's because you have to figure out like how you feel owning it and how you feel when you wear it on this day or this day yeah and i'm curious like did that happen for you at all definitely i mean a hundred percent i feel lucky that i was doing like a lot more vintage stuff before okay i got into like that area where I didn't I couldn't visualize what would look good on myself like I bought so much old clothes and at not like a super expensive price that it was like oh I know that this looks good I actually really because there's a huge difference between like liking something and what will look good on you in my opinion for me.

34:01That is the true and correct opinion you were right it's like your taste is different from what accentuates you as a person you can like like i for example i love like yoji yamamoto stuff and i've put a lot of it on and i haven't found a piece yet where i'm like oh yeah this really feels like i want to like throw this on and go get some coffee you know i'm saying yeah yeah i know what you mean but i am still it's still really hard for me to pull like the trigger on like the thing that I like especially when it's like designer pieces um that are retail it's usually like a tattoo it's like I've seen this so much that I and I and I know that this will look good and fit in my closet that I will finally yes I will I will spend the money on that piece but a lot of my stuff is still secondhand like I would say 90 % of what I have is is secondhand because I was doing wholesale vintage at one point.

35:01And then we were doing like a curated vintage shop inside of the store. We were making our own clothes. So - Wait, because was this in Texas or was this in LA? This is in LA. Yeah. It was a shop called Callow Soil. We had like - Yeah, because this is your brand, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. It's not no, it is no longer, but it is like, just because all three of us that were doing it kind of split in different directions. my reason was like season two and three of avatar it was it was like there's no possible way that yo man i gotta do some jump kicks and cut some checks like i get it yeah i gotta throw this boomerang around and then we'll see where we're at at the end of it um but yeah like um a lot of our stuff was built off of figuring out what we liked through vintage uh and and all of our stuff was based off of ref like references like everybody else but all of ours were built off of really unique vintage pieces that we found you know okay yeah yeah is that i mean do you still see yourself you know having some form of brand or store on your own yeah for sure i mean i think that's all of our callow was really special because it was all three of our tastes kind of like blended in to each other um but a lot of my stuff is different uh from like what we made at hello um so that was always my dream i mean i when i was 15 i moved out to la at 14 for acting and then at 15 like during the summer i got this idea to like start sketching clothes and i was doing a lot of that um and i ended up bringing them to like a friend that i knew that i had met from church and he was a uh professor at fitham and he was like oh yo you should this is actually something you should uh i do a second thing on the side which was like a soccer fashion blog that they had like an office for and he was like if you just come and like work on this stuff i'll teach you like photoshop illustrator how to manufacture in la so i had like a very small thing at that period of my life and so it was like that and then callo so i definitely see like having a creative vision like a brand um soonish i would say in the next five years is what soonish looks like to me so yeah um but call it was awesome because i really got to see how to like build it from like basically it was like wholesale vintage and we had a shop and we had the clothes but not like the aesthetic on the inside of the store was there but not like out in the public so we were like building up the instagram and learning how to like market and learning how to get eyes on it and we started when i came in i came in to like help us do our own like made in house stuff so all the original clothes i helped design and then we were also making all these like weird marketing videos.

37:52It was really helpful for me to see how much work goes into a brand on a holistic level rather than just like, I want to make some clothes and then I want to sell them online. Yeah. Well, I think what you're also like tugging at too, where it's, you know, this happens to me sometimes where I'll get a message from someone and they're like, hey, I want to launch a clothing brand. I'm like, okay, cool. And they're like, I have a Shopify shop and I'm going to use some like Instagram ads and I'm basically just screen printing t-shirts. And here's the thing. I think one, that's awesome because screen printing t-shirts is still for me like the most punk rock thing ever where you're just like, you're making stuff.

38:34But then two, it's like, okay, well, what's the long-term plan for this? Is this an experiment? Is this, hey, this is us, you know, the equivalent of us hanging out and playing video games at night, you know, in someone's house. Like, is this just a social thing? Because I do think when you start to try to run a, you know, capital B brand, you realize all of the, we'll call them opportunities instead of challenges here, of all the opportunities of, you know, product sourcing before you even market. But like, okay, making something, how much you can make, what it looks like to do trimming is like, what's your manufacturing look like?

39:12What's the quality control look like? Like, are you having it made in one place and sent to another? And like all of the sort of, you know, how the sausage gets made. And for some people, it messes you up so much that you're like, this is awful. I don't want to do that. I was just trying to make a shirt that had a funny thing on it. Yeah. You know, because now I'll like try to temp check people without scaring them and be like, OK, cool. Are you are you going to go to fabric shows? Are you going to work with mills? Like, where do you plan on sourcing production? Are you looking at Portugal? Are you looking at India?

39:40you know and some people like we're just we're gonna go to japan and it's like okay well japan's not gonna work with you if you just knock on their door like you gotta you need an agent you need this and as you were doing that with callo like how did that change your perspective of other brands that you maybe didn't like and now do or you know appreciate more now i mean i think it just i it it humbles you a lot i think trying to do it sure at like a at like a ground zero level i think that we were in the position where we were trying to make something like we were like this is such a cool business and the model was already there like that's what I came in and that's what like they were my friends and it was also like drawing me in because I feel like they knew so much there was such a big knowledge gap in vintage wholesale vintage but that market was changing and changing quickly in a way that was like yeah not good like things were getting a lot more expensive um people were finding other ways to source vintage not just out of la from rag houses and from you know wherever you could source it um and so i was like how what if we like tried to do made in house stuff the aesthetic is already there and we know what we want to make uh and i personally just wanted clothes that i as a 19 year old guy who didn't know a thing about laundry wasn't going to turn their 1970s shirt from a regular fit size to like this big you know what i'm saying yeah like how can i just wear some like not something just so gross like because we were in that we were into like zombie shirts is what we'd call them just like destroyed there was like these random huge stains on them that's like how cool is this yeah this is shredded man yeah yeah i get it um and i still love that stuff but i was like i can't I want like a shirt where I can like walk into my, like go see my parents and them not be like, are you okay?

41:40Are you taking care of yourself? And so we wanted to make like, that's how it all started. But we were starting on like a sewing machine that you can get from Michael's. And it was just solely learning on YouTube videos and with fabric, how to freaking do it. So it was like, it was pretty punk rock still. It was like the, it was like the screen printing t-shirts, of like high level clothes because that's also was our vision was we didn't want to our stuff wasn't like it was almost in between street wear in a way because you could you could wear them but our stuff is like weird too it's not like stuff you can just put on i mean i saw it it's not weird but you're right it it does not look like sid mashburn or like you know oxford shirts and chinos sure yeah yeah yeah like it yeah so we were just trying to figure out like how do we make the stuff that's in our heads like out but we were just that's what was so fun about it is it felt like all three of the things that you were describing is like is this a hangout like you're doing video games is this like a business it's like we were there from like would say we would be there at nine and then would really be there at like 9 30 and then would be there until like 11 p.m like almost every day for like a year plus so it was like all three of those things where we were you know do it was just us three and then we had a couple of like people that were helping out as well that would come and just like help um but we were getting fabrics from downtown LA I mean it was all LA sourced so um that helps which is a great place to make clothes I mean it's a great place to make clothes um I'll be honest like I was going to go help get the fabric because sometimes I was the only one with like a running car and so then we would go get like we would go get the fabric and I honestly couldn't even tell you the name of the store like Sully was the one going and having the relationships with the people and buying the fabric and then sewing them but we were just all designing and then I was helping like make vignettes and making because I want to be a filmmaker and direct stuff so that was fun to me is like how do you make these clothes look good in this like kind of weird conceptual uh story without a story that's more about like showing off the clothes uh so it was like our art project and our business and our hangout spot it was kind of it was honestly one of the most creatively fulfilling times of my life in general just because of all of those reasons but uh yeah i mean you you get why people like uh like eddie slimane right where people like keep amazing designer i loved early dior like that's early dior like 2005 to 07 is what really got me in to close oh wow that's a cool time to get into clothes i mean it was it was like because i moved to New York in like 04, 05.

44:20And one of the first things I did, very not smart, okay, very stupid, was my rent at the time was 600 bucks in the Lower East Side. I lived on Norfolk and Delancey. And I was like, okay, so I only need to make like 800 bucks to live every month. And I'm like, I'm sure I can survive off this. So I had a little bit of extra cash from other work and savings that I had. And I immediately went to Dior Homme and I spent$600 on the like, the, you know, 17 and a half centimeter, you know, big stack jeans. And I was like, this is all I need. I'm just going to wear this every day with a, you know, with a t-shirt.

45:00That's awesome. And I was like, this is so awesome. And I remember seeing the Eddie Salman photos. You know, he would take pictures of people and I was like, this is so ridiculous. Like, why, why is anyone even liking this? Like he makes clothes. He shouldn't be taking photos. And I realized how stupid I was at that time because in my head, I wanted to box in my understanding of an artist. And even like what you were saying, right? You're like, look, yeah, that was fun. And I liked that. And I felt very creatively fulfilled. However, I want to make films. Like I want to make, you know, like do you feel now where it's like, okay, everything that you're doing is adding up to this larger creative experiment or goal?

45:46I mean, is, or do you see yourself like, look, I'm going to do all of these at the same time? I definitely don't think that anymore. I think at one point that was what I was hoping would be the case. I think what my dream would be is, I feel like I've been doing a lot of groundwork, like you said, like all of the film and the taste making that you accumulate, which is just a kind of a silly word for liking stuff all the time yeah whatever that means you know and is they play off of each other really well like fashion and film i would love i i've been doing a lot of work on trying to figure out like what it is this what is the kind of stuff that i want to make and i think that there's two parts of it one is it doesn't have to be as serious as it you make it out to be i think a lot of people create a mountain for themselves that they then have to climb um interesting you know what i mean where it's like when we were doing callow it's like you do have to think about all the stuff that you were saying because it is like those are obstacles and you should know that those opportunities as we were talking are real um but also that you can make i'm so inspired by it like what you're talking about like there's a kid um kid i don't know i think he's like my age but whatever he's he's um tapped into a lot of different groups his name's finn and i don't know him but he is a part of like kind of a cool section of fashion and music and stuff that i'm a fan of and he's just screen printing shirts and i'm like wow that's so like i haven't seen that done and it's done really well that's what's kind of like interesting is it's like coming in waves where it's like i used to in the same way that you're talking about like eddie like taking photos and you're like i don't know if i like that i think I do that with screen printing shirts sometimes.

47:36And when I saw his, I was like, dang, that's really cool. I'm also seeing Nick Holliday and Claiborne are doing some DIY stuff again, like hoodies and distressing and screen printing. There's a brand called Ministry School that's really exciting. That's cool. And I am friends with those guys. But they are screen printing shirts again. And it's like, that's so fun. What if it's just about the love of the stuff and you're making cool stuff again? But at the bigger level, I am creating the mountain that I want to climb in a way for my own personal brand. What do I want? What do I think I can contribute to the conversation that's personal and true and unique to me?

48:15But what's so much more exciting than like, maybe not so much more exciting, but equally as exciting as that conversation with the clothes is what world are you creating? It's like world building in film or in fashion that I want to live in, including the clothes. I don't know if any of that makes sense, but how can I create the aesthetic of this world, the marketing, the different seasons between like winter and summer spring to be something that is exciting for me to wear all the time, but it's like more of a fantastical world to live in. And then there's like screen printing shirts too. That's like really practical and cool and fun, but there are like two different worlds.

48:57I want to do this at some point because it feels closer to like film, like building a place where you can go escape. And my goal would be to set that up in a way where I could do that. And you need a lot of money to do that so that you can like let it run on its own and then go make films and then come back to this world. That's like my little planet that I've built of clothes and aesthetic that like kind of feeds into like film and other stuff. But that's like a global scale, I guess. No, I mean, I think that's, to be honest, that is the best way to do it. I mean, when we look at specifically American brands that have done that and done it well, I mean, how many can we name?

49:33I feel like it's really just Ralph Lauren. Ralph Lauren. Right? I mean, he made, and I will say they, because even though everyone that works at Ralph is like, oh, it's all Ralph. Like, no, I mean, John Mirage is a huge deal. I mean, there's so many people there. But building that world, you know, and I'm paraphrasing this, but like there's a Ralph interview where he talked about if you're more focused on everything else then like the the clothes will design themselves and the sense of um you know because for him he's trying to show a time for him like this golden age of America and American style where it was like Hollywood and you know people like Fred Astaire and then also you know from Double RL Like he really loved this rugged sort of, you know, out West pioneer style, whatever words you want to fill in there.

50:25Cowboy. Yeah. You look at Double RL and you're like, this is so good. Yes. This is so, so good. The best. And it's, you know, and I'm always like, how do they do it? And it's funny too, because whatever new hot brand someone will talk about, you know, whether it's like Opressay or whatever. and people are like, oh, they're on fire. They're doing all the best stuff right now. It's like you go back and you're like, yeah, I think sometimes we forget that actually the people who continue to do the best every year is Ralph Lauren. And I mean, it sounds like you've really studied that though in focusing on that world.

51:01I mean, has that made you start to look at things that aren't clothes that you think fit in this journey of what you're doing? Are you buying old railroad station signs or something? Not yet. I feel like I'm in a weird period of my life where I'm traveling for like a month straight, like every two months or something. So I keep finding myself in this cycle, which I'm not complaining about. It's like a really fun way to experience stuff. but I am just like a fan of really stylized stuff things that can make you escape into a world that somebody else has built and I think that there are people that do that in all mediums of art but definitely with fashion and definitely with film like Tim Burton is like one of my favorite filmmakers of all time because you say that and you know exactly what I'm talking about you know you know exactly what you mean when you say Tim Burton and that was kind of my whole thing with callow too is like i want it to feel like you say callow soil and you can see it like you know exactly what it is um yeah and it's the same with ralph like ralph warren you say it and you know exactly what it is and somebody that's really inspiring to me it's cool that you brought him up obviously it's like who got you into fashion you were saying but eddie selman is somebody who is like that way in so many mediums now, but almost like mediums of houses, like where you can, you know, like it's almost in a different way.

52:37It's almost like how a filmmaker could make a film with Warner Brothers or Paramount and it's still their voice like coming through so intensely. And so that's cool to me. I have like a lot of Eddie stuff just because I feel like it fits my body well. that's some of the best stuff that I'm that I'm been like okay I'm gonna buy this um because I'm it's my tattoo like I was talking about earlier um I actually have something cool I found this in a boxed lunch in the middle of uh of Indiana and I thought it was cool because you brought it up but this is like a like Daft Punk just like little like set but do you see what they're wearing do you see the jacket they're wearing it's the yeah it's is that the brick oh it's i think it's the dior home like uh i don't know i you know you can somebody will that's so 2004 2005 something like that yeah i was like wait this is so insane that they're wearing this jacket and this like little action figure um my god and that's what's cool is like it transcends like you can you can imagine somebody that's relevant in culture wearing this kind of jacket even though it's so distinct yeah like fake mink or two hollis or whoever named somebody netsman sure whatever and that's the kind of stuff that I want to make something that's so unique it's simple but it's so like you see that I saw that jacket and I love Daft Punk and so I know that they were like into that at the time but it's like oh that's Heady like that's like oh that's Tim Burton like even if you see something outside oh that's Spike Jones you know so that's kind of what I'm aspiring to do in art in general right now that's like specifically in like and you have this with actors too but it's rare you know like Keith Ledger I would say is somebody that you see him and he's like a holistic artist or, um, Johnny Depp.

54:22Uh, I think Robert Pattinson has the best current voice of doing that. Uh, Willem Dafoe. So I don't really know what Jim Carrey also, I would say is like highly underrated in that way of doing, uh, Truman show and eternal sunshine and like his crazy comedy. That's so Jim Carrey. I would say that they're equal. Yeah. So I don't know what it looks like, I guess, yet. I'm still very much, I feel like in this, from traveling and stuff, this part of education and understanding what that is. And I think I have a good solid foundation of what I think that core is for me. Yeah. But still adding to it.

55:02I think that's key too. and I think the difference between success or not, right? Because what we view as success is going to evolve no matter what over time. And so the difference to actually build that is to just continue doing it. I don't know if you ever paid attention to, oh gosh, the brand was called Techno Bohemian and it was John Malkovich's clothing brand. Whoa, what? You got to check it out. But yeah, it's all one word, but it was just called techno bohemian and i remember going to he he had a fashion show in new york and then for a while he was going to like all the new york fashion shows and ever you know it was interesting too because people like why is john malkovich here but he was you know he had these kind of uh like band collar you know jackets and sport coats that you know you had like a double breast pocket here but it was like this they looked like um almost like these kind of like military style things but not like some sort of north korean dictator thing like it there was it it looked very very well uh good and and the the colors were always really bright and loud and good pattern mixing but like john malkovich's style over the years has always been pretty freaking great and i saw him i don't know a few years ago and i asked him about it and i was like hey whatever happened with techno and he was like what i i think he was a little caught off guard by like that was the first thing i wanted to ask him about yeah and he said well it was very difficult to keep doing and in my head i'm like dude i feel like that brand would be huge of course i don't know what made it difficult so i'm gonna admit my ignorance here however i feel like that brand would be massive if he just kept going yeah you know i feel like i and that style is so in right now i feel like every single brand has that i i i guess i don't know exactly what you're talking about but every i think of those um like those kind of like band um very victorian jackets like alexander mcqueen and andemiel meester they all like have one of those celine you know yeah all has one of those kind of jackets right now yeah and like the tailoring too that he had where you know so for people just listening he had like the gorge on his lapel which is like where the little you know it's like where your lapel sits it was pretty high up it was like a three two roll but he always buttoned the third button up top so it you know so the power glass shape yeah so it looks really really good and also i mean john malkovich is just cool so like he was modeling all the clothes and i think because he also didn't have this sort of you know drop eight chiseled physique you know he looked like a cool looking guy i mean there was also another brand that was popping off at that time called adam kimmel um you know which uh adam kimmel did he had like a collaboration with supreme um yeah i mean there was it's a really cool brand and adam kimmel had one of his fashion shows and it was with george kondo and like the artist george kondo and they these like weird masks and all these dudes played around a pool table but yeah if you search adam kimmel george condo you can see that fashion show in there and it's incredible but that's really me yeah some of these things i'm like man i wish they would have kept going because i love techno bohemian i think adam kimmel stuff is also great but you know again i don't know what what what made it difficult to respond back to mr malkovich yeah yeah so i'm curious like i think for you in your case I mean if you just keep doing it not that you're not going to evolve and not that you're not allowed to be interested into other forms of art but what makes something successful I think is just continuing to do it yeah you know and it whether it's a passion project or whether it's you know paying for all the trips that you're going on I mean yeah you'll still you're still doing it which I think is just a huge advantage yeah I think you're right I mean I think that something I was thinking about with film actually today, but one of my friends, Ayo Deji, he's like a filmmaker.

59:13And he was talking about there's like always a difference between the skill level that you have right now to attain the level of taste that you have. Like there's almost like two different skills happening at the same time. And people get so discouraged when their skill level isn't at the spot to attain their taste level. And if you keep building up on this and i think that this is like i'm talking to myself right now like if i keep building up this and never start this aspect then you that's what's so scary is like everybody knows what they like and what they want to make but you have to start making stuff that you don't like and everybody always talks about that but that's kind of what i was talking about with like the two mountains it's like that screen printing part of it and this other like world building crazy whatever part can actually be like a bridge to the same place in a way um yeah especially if you like continue starting and that's for whatever that's in film fashion whatever in the creative realm i think yeah so like i mean as you continue to do that is that is that changed about the projects that you look at acting wise is that made you be like oh well i want to do this because this will also i'm making this up i this will have me in spain for a few weeks and i'm gonna live here for a while and then i'm gonna spend some on my off time when we're not shooting i'm gonna go to these factories i'm gonna go do this so like yeah i'm more interested in this job or you like i need an oscar in 10 years i'm not that ignorant yet um yeah i think that i definitely was thinking about that while i was in vancouver i mean i was scavenged and some and sometimes those boxes can be helpful um right like i do i feel like i have a good pulse on like how they source their vintage and stuff which is very different than la for some reason um and also like brands that i would have never heard of because maybe i wouldn't come across a store that's like neighbor in new york but i would in vancouver because it's like one of the only things there and then learning about those like smaller designers and stuff like that um but yeah definitely i mean i think that they coincide and the philosophy i guess i have about both of them is not trying to dive in to a place that i'm not ready to go yet i just did a film um my first film actually uh two months ago which was really exciting but the subject matter was very hard and the and the um character was very personal to me because it's with like mental health and stuff that i had dealt with i think in my past oh and i felt ready to dive in at this stage of my life and like come out on the other side and feel like know that i could come back because of the anchors that I have set in my life.

1:01:58But for some roles, I feel like I know that somebody else could do it better. And I would hope that I would have the self-discipline, which is what I think is the through line with people like Jim Carrey, Robert Pattinson, Willem Dafoe. We will never know the things that they said no to, you know, but I'm sure that there were many where they were possibly like not ready for those things, even though they would have been good. Because if you go and do that thing and it's bad, then it's like rough, hard to come back, you know? Yeah. And that's where I feel like my philosophy kind of is similar for fashion where it's like, I would love to, I want to dive in and start at a place that is where I'm ready to, I feel like very ready to start my new chapter and what that looks like for me.

1:02:41But don't want to start, you know, if I got, if, if half a million dollars fell out of the sky from huge umbrella company. Sure. I don't think that I'm ready to like do that right now. Like I wouldn't, I don't think that I would want that to happen because it's not like where I'm at, you know? Right. Maybe in five years it's different. But yeah, I don't think it's more like let me go try to take this job so I can go do this other thing here. I'm always trying to like look at like what opportunities. But sometimes you forget to live life in that way too. And life informs your art so much as a person.

1:03:15Like if you're not living life and all you're thinking about is fantasy, then sometimes it cannot get grounded in stuff that's human and real and the connective tissue of like what you want in a fan in a in a world that is stylized. So, yeah, I'm trying to build one brick at a time, basically, is what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like I mean, obviously, that's the right way to do it. Did did someone give you that advice or was that a conclusion you came to on your own? Sure, I heard it somewhere. there's no way i came up with it um some of it some of it helped because i've just seen some of my friends try to go from zero to 100 like that way and crash and burn and are still kind of trying to recover from the crash and burn like you're playing with a lot of like stakes i think um i also like like studying i'm just a curious person so i like figuring out why somebody's career maybe turned out the way that it did and why somebody with a similar opportunity had it go the complete opposite direction and the choices that they made.

1:04:16And I think that sometimes it's like trying to put all of your eggs in one basket on something that you half-heartedly, like you're not ready for and you know it. And it's like the world is telling you like, you know, you're never going to get another shot like this. And then you don't get another shot because you didn't, you weren't ready for that opportunity, you know? And sometimes that's actually a good thing. You're too, you know, people want it so bad, the opportunity. And then they're like okay show me everything you got and you're like ah i don't have that much yeah i mean i feel like as you're looking at your career you know have you had a person who's has like been mentoring you because i mean a lot of the stuff that you're speaking about i think is very very wise and healthy which praise god yeah which which feels like it's not as much of a norm unfortunately that is true yeah i think that i've had lots of mentors in my life um that have instilled that ideal ideology to me sure i think that on it i have mentors in my life but i still haven't found one that is in the arts as much honestly um which is kind of like i've wanted for a long time because I kind of always wanted that like in all industries and business they're always like you know find your mentor listen to them also in what I do it's not as easy because like the mentor might be like Willem Dafoe and it's like obviously he doesn't give a crap as he shouldn't be I think he is like obviously like kids and stuff like um so I mean for me a lot of it has come from my anchors in my life.

1:06:01I think that has been like friends that are doing very similar things. Um, I'm lucky to like be friends and call like my friends, peers that are making other really cool stuff that have a similar mindset that is more centered around art over, um, the business side of things. And both are very important, but if you have the art first, then all of that other stuff that people are chasing after with after comes with it if you make something really good i think um but also like my faith um i have like mentors and i've been lucky enough to have like mentors in my life that were more just like father figures that have kind of brought me back and my and i also like love my dad and my dad is like a huge part of my life too but i moved to la when i was 14 just my mom and my sister so oh okay yeah so So it was more like even now, like even after Avatar season one, I had like mentors that were like my pastor or were like older guys at the church that were like kind of just helping me figure out stuff like that.

1:07:05And I think a lot of, when you have a more aerial perspective of life, where it's like in the Bible, it talks about all flesh is, all flesh is, glory of flesh is like the flowers of grass and falls away. you start kind of looking more at things like how can I make something cool while I'm here that can like be inspiring to other people and be just something cool for me because there's so many things that are more important in world in the world like if you can become if you can kind of I think that it freed me up so much that like my my faith freed me up to not be so um like I feel like my work was like a master of me.

1:07:55And when I was able to like submit to something else and be like, oh, this is what I want to reflect. I want to look more like Jesus, honestly. And it frees me up to like make my work like I'm controlling my work now. Some people feel like life is like flying by. I think a lot of that is like why you might see people take those like lack mindset, if you want to call it that. Like I get this thing, I got to take it. I get this thing i gotta do this yeah so i don't know that's that's versus like an abundance mindset yeah yeah like versus like uh if even if this opportunity passes me by and another one isn't coming is that okay oh you know what i'm saying because a lot of abundance mindset in the material can be like this one's gonna go but a better one's coming sure and sometimes a better one isn't coming and it's more like is this right am I cool with this one leaving and I'm just who I am and another one isn't coming and can I create something totally different like a totally different okay opportunity or way of life or whatever and it still be okay and the answer is like always yes yeah I mean it's it's tough I mean I think it also you have to have confidence in yourself and what you're doing where I mean I feel that all the time and you know I do this pod I do like consulting stuff and you know I'll do some work for some brands and then it's also like how do we continue to grow this thing and what does it look like I've done this for 10 years where I have people who are like yeah I listened to you in high school in college or whatever and you're like that's weird uh but it's also I'm humbled and flattered and at the same time I'm I'm like, okay, they've changed a ton.

1:09:41Have I changed? And I ask myself that all the time where I'm like, what are the priorities I had then? And also the world has changed from that time to now. So do my priorities now fit in with what is in front of me and with the world, like to air quote, right? So like, what does that even look like? And I think that is something I felt probably more in my 40s than ever because, you know, as I was sharing with you with my friend who is having his own existential crisis, where it's like, I mean, the grass is always greener on the other side, but you look at where you want to be, whether it is in this sort of, you know, rat race, career chasing Hollywood thing.

1:10:22But, you know, can you find joy doing something else? In the sense that like for me now, my desire, honestly, I love everything that I get to do, but I'm like, man, I want to be around my kids and like be some type of a parent that is there and they can say that, you know, I was supporting them. Like I grew up in a home, my dad was a pastor and it started this church and I grew up in a very, very, very over-churched life. Yeah, gotcha. But I ended up being like very, like very anti-church. Right. Left everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was just like, you know, I don't like this. I don't like what it stood for.

1:11:02I was seeing people behaving one way and acting another. And also I felt my whole life, like faith was more or less not my own. And so for a while I became a Buddhist and I, you know, and that was fine. And then I remember telling, I remember telling my dad and my dad was, I was like, dad, you know, like I'm not doing this. Like I, stop sending me C.S. Lewis books. I'm a Buddhist. And I'm, you know, and I remember he was just like, that's okay, you know? And, but he would always talk to me and say like, you know, for me, my biggest goal for you is you need to figure out like, what's your own faith, what's your own life.

1:11:40And now I feel like there's a lot of other people who are trying to figure that out. Yeah, there's this verse that keeps popping out to me this year specifically, John 4, 24, which is the woman at the well and Jesus are having a conversation about why she can't worship where she wants to worship. And Jesus says, God is spirit and truth and there will be a time where he's looking for worshipers to worship in spirit and truth. And it's like, God is truth and seeking him and looking for what is true will mean that you hopefully find him, which is what he claims. You know, so I think that that is the most important part of whatever spiritual journey that you're going for.

1:12:22It's not trying to be like right or correct or whatever, but just actually trying to seek truth and have that like kind of freedom to let God be God and guide us, everyone that's seeking truth to him, you know? yeah yeah true true and it's tough too because even now i'm i'm always like yeah i don't i can't i feel like i gotta explain more of what i'm not than more of what i am because of the the challenges of trying to have some type of faith in a world where that faith is also used as a weapon to like ostracize and push people out yeah versus basically just like the most important thing, just loving your neighbor.

1:13:04To love your neighbor, what does that truly, truly look like? And I wrestle with that a lot in trying to figure that stuff out. But anyway, one of the last things I wanted to ask you about is, as a person who spends a ton of their time on the road, I feel like I have to travel quite a bit, and I figured out my personal style more when I realized it was what I packed. so there are there's certain things that you find on your that you find that yourself you're always packing and you're like this actually is my style i bring it everywhere i go yes 100 i couldn't have put it better myself that's like because it's it's it's almost it's like what like coming full circle is what we talked about earlier it's functionality it's a lifestyle preference like that's what makes somebody look so cool and like what they wear is you know that they wear it because they genuinely don't just like how it looks but they like how they feel when they're wearing it how they look when they're wearing it like they like the things that we do we like doing them in these clothes yeah um so there's these like you know i bought probably during that whole like wholesale vintage whatever period of my life probably 12 pairs of black levi's trying to oh nice find the perfect pair and um all sorts of cuts and you know different waist sizes and stuff because they're vintage and they shrink or they're all different um and then there was these dumb pair not dumb but you know like just a pair of like black stussy jeans that were like big and baggy and like whatever and i wear them literally my friend makes fun of me all the time dallas makes fun of me all the time because i wear them i like every every single day like not anymore but they're always like they're like my they're like my pjs they're like i wear them on the plane yeah i'm on they're like my work pants you know there's a bunch of this vintage t-shirt has made its way around for probably three and a half years it says healthcare is a right the big medical cross on it and then on the back it has all the and none of these holes were here at the beginning which is actually kind of surprising oh there you go you earned those holes I earned these holes it has all this pump up the budget pump up the budget housing hospital beds yeah oh my god it's amazing so these I just have a bunch of like blank vintage white shirts that's how i always feel like i feel i look the best or feel the best in like a white shirt um i have a bunch of black i have a ton of black boots and that's always the issue with traveling is which boots are gonna make it and which ones will not um yeah because they probably weigh like yeah five six pounds so you're not really bringing multiple pairs of black boots in the carry-on we are but we are but not more than three so not more than three okay all right that's how we do it unfortunately that's how we do it so like for example this trip i brought a bunch of extra stuff to new york i was like new york indiana now i'm in madrid so i knew that i would have a carry-on that i could send with my friend who came with me to new york back to LA which had a bunch of extra styling stuff because it was for a commercial so I had like options um but what made it with me to Madrid are like I have these like studded pair of Wyatt's um yeah 2016 I have those uh rolling dub trio boots with the guidi leather I have some flip-flops okay and I have a pair of running shoes that's what that's what make it the gym for the gym that's what that's what yeah that's it's pretty that's a good it's a good setup and honestly that like the ones that would have to go in the rotation are the heady boots because it's just not practical it's just for fun um and it's so hot here in madrid too but oh i bet still worth it um but yeah and then we have like these uh i think i went through a series in my fashion journey when I was like learning a lot in that phase where I was like trying to I really I woke up one day and was like why am I trying to fit in so hard with the things I'm trying to buy where I bought these like also like pair of like neon orange Stussy shorts uh as like a rebellion to myself of like I need to break out of this world um that I wear all the time and just I try to buy more stuff like that now that's just unique and makes me feel like I'm not taking fashion so serious because just in general, I'm not a very super serious person.

1:17:32So I feel like I've been trying to find more stuff like that. That's like neon pink shirts or stuff that still looks cool, but it's not just so like, you don't see me and you're like, oh, this guy's going to be like thinking about what jeans I have on when I walk up to him, you know? It's true. Yeah. It's funny. A lot of times. So when I go to pick up my kids, um, like the carpool line, right? That's my only runway and i there's a person whom at first we would just talk to each other very briefly and now you know we're kind of friends and i was talking to him and he was like yeah he's like you know when i first met you he's like i was like man this guy's just gonna make fun of all the clothes i have and i'm like i what made you think that i was like i wouldn't i didn't say it i never did anything like that he's like you just look like you're you know you're some guy who's like is really into clothes i'm like well correct but also like i don't care what you wear yeah like wear whatever you want like we're good here yeah yeah it's funny because i'm like oh how am i dressing you know and it's corino-san who runs uh united arrows when i had him on the pod he was like he's like the best way to dress is you want to dress in a way that makes everyone else around you feel comfortable and i was like shit that's heavy but he was like i he's like you know i knew i was going to see you today so i wanted to wear this way to make you know i was going to wear this outfit because i wanted you to feel good well and i'm like okay like that's that's that's the real yeah level 99 style is like how you dress makes everyone else around you feel good but i was like what if everyone looks like shit then you shouldn't be in the room that's what he's gonna say okay there you go no i agree i think that's i think that you're right about that that's like level 99 styling because it's like that means that you have a closet for every occasion basically that you can like transform into like you feel good, but also you can make them feel good.

1:19:22Yeah. So we'll figure it out. Anyway. One day. Yeah. This was great. Yeah. Thanks so much, Jeremy. This was super fun. Yeah. Thanks again, man. It was a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much. Yeah. It was so fun and hope to see you next time. All right, man. All right. That's it for this episode. Thanks so much for hanging out. Support the people making good stuff. Wear what you like. Enjoy yourself. I'll talk to you next week. you