After Hours with Alison Sivitz

6:36David Sims:I keep tabs on who else is out there.

6:39Griffin Newman:There's some guy called Griffin Cleveland who kind of looks like you as a child.

6:44David Sims:Oh, boy. It's a little alarming. Have we covered the mythical creature in any film? I think there was a griffin in Dungeons & Dragons. Yeah. Yeah. If not both Dungeons & Dragons that we covered. Good call. I don't think we've covered a movie that has a griffin character.

7:04Griffin Newman:No. I think we're done. Oh, okay.

7:08David Sims:There was one recently. There was one recently? What was it? because I just remembered one. Fuck. You say yours. I think Gary Shanling plays a character named Griffin in Mixed Nuts, possibly. I think. I mean, now we're definitely done. That, that, that, that's the end. This movie also, let's just say, is very much reflective of my temperament. Absolutely. This is a movie that is very much my vibe. Yeah.

7:30Griffin Newman:It's a downtown movie. It's... And you are downtown Griffin Newman.

7:33David Sims:And this is a downtown movie.

7:35Griffin Newman:Gary Shanling's character in Mixed Nuts is called Stanley. Okay. So you made that up.

7:39David Sims:There's some other Gary Shanling movie. You know what it is? is Town & Country. We haven't covered it yet. We will cover it when we do Warren Beatty. Absolutely. Yes. What's on your hat?

7:48Griffin Newman:Fucking Edge of Tomorrow. Oh, Griff.

7:52David Sims:Yeah, yeah. Yes, Kit Gurry.

7:54Griffin Newman:Sure.

7:55David Sims:Yes. What's on your hat? So my hat is the graffiti from Jaws. I wore it because I thought it looked close to the classic bathroom graffiti and after hours of the man having his dick bit by a shark. Really beautiful. It's really good. And let's even, in honor of this episode, call it graffiti. Wow. Wow. Who's our guest? We're done. I was like so stunned by the profundity of what I'm saying. We're just really done. Our guest today. Yes. And this is the first time we've had to do this. There was almost an act of negotiation, not between us, but with herself. Within herself. Yeah. Of how she wanted to be introduced.

8:35Story of my life.

8:36David Sims:Yes. You may know them at the time As merely a handle and an avatar. Yeah. At Bald and Doud. But that's not who's on the podcast today. Today who's on the podcast is Ali Sivy. That is how she is being introduced.

8:53Griffin Newman:Yeah.

8:53David Sims:We feel good. Did that feel comfortable coming out? That felt good. That felt good.

8:57Griffin Newman:Did you make the Bald and Doud picture? No. Did you create that in Photoshop or whatever? No, someone made that for you. I met a friend on Twitter named Lachlan, and I tweeted one day out of the blue. I was just in a weird mood. I was having sort of an after hours type of week. I was like, can anyone Photoshop And Out Bald for me? And there it was in my replies. And the rest is history. There she is. I did absolutely no labor.

9:22David Sims:Now, did you have to acquire the rights at some point to just do a full buyout? Now that it's yours, kind of. For the first six months, I would have intense nightmares that And Out was going to sue me.

9:35Griffin Newman:Right. She's very litigious. She recently. Famously. No, I used to go around asking people, like, do you think Endowed is litigious? Like, what's the story? Because she plays a villain so well. But then when I met her, she's like, honey, I would never sue you. And I was like, I needed to, like, I just, like, my body just, like, unclenched in a way that I didn't realize I had to unclench. Was she, like, why am I bald? Like, did she, was she perturbed at all? Okay, okay. No, not perturbed. She was just like, what's the story? And I'm bald because, right. I was like, and I don't know. I could not tell you.

10:08David Sims:I need to just close the loop on this quickly. The other two, of course. We said we were done, but okay. And I just told you I need to close the loop. Right, right. Exactly. D-U-N-N-E. David Spade's Invisible Man from the Hotel Transylvania Thrilogy, of course, is named Griffin, which is a reference to the character from the books in the original Universal movies. And Michael Stolberg's Alien for Men in Black 3. End of list. Why is he called Griffin? I don't know. I do love Stolberg. I just saw the clip of him talking to Timothy at the end of Call Me By Your Name, and it made me cry.

10:43Griffin Newman:That's quite a good performance. That clip will make you cry. It's funny.

10:46David Sims:It would be funnier if you were like, I just saw the clip of him in a black train. Just like, I'm not feeling it. It made me cry. Yeah, at the end when he can't figure out what to order at the diner. Is that what he does? Yeah. Remember, he's an alien where his brain is a planet and he can predict every timeline. He's got a choose-your-own-adventure brain. And so he's trying to talk them into making the right branching timeline choices. Sounds like a tearjerker It's kind of the after hours of the Men in Black trilogy It mostly takes place in one night I've seen that movie more than once Including on this podcast

11:15Griffin Newman:But it's not really lodged in the old brainy box But you know what is? After hours This is a movie I've seen so many times I put it on just because My job to watch the movie before I do this show And it was one of those things where I was like I don't even need to do this As it's happening I was just like It's all in there already baby

11:33David Sims:You know what's surprising? I think this is my favorite Martin Scorsese film, unsurprisingly. It's not the one that I think is best, but it's the one that obviously just sticks to my ribs, right? I've seen it many times. Every time I watch it, I'm a little surprised by it because my memory of it is different than the act of watching it in real time. I experienced this last night. Yeah. There were things that I completely forgot about. I always forget that he gets to her apartment that quickly. Very quickly. Yeah. Right away. That I always think there's more conflict to get there because I know, well, he loses the money.

12:02David Sims:It's just the cab ride. No, and it's things get bad once he leaves her place.

12:08Griffin Newman:Yeah, I never take a yellow cab anymore. No one ever does, sadly. You know, we're all taking Lyft or whatever. But that is what it was like. It is. You never put your seatbelt on.

12:19David Sims:No, and also, that was a real kind of throwback moment of that little, what do they even call it? The basket, I think he said?

12:27Griffin Newman:Yeah, the little basket you put the money in.

12:28David Sims:The New York yellow cab thing. See, our guest is so young that she doesn't even know what we're talking about. But that there was the plexiglass partition. So you can shoot him. And then there was this little kind of like basket with a hinge where you would stuff the money in and then push it. And then they would pull it out the other side. And it's such a dumb fucking rookie move on his part to be like, I'm storing it here for later for the payment. Rather than do it at the moment.

12:53Griffin Newman:Yes. You do, you know, he's, I, I also, the, the, the, the receipt sound of a taxi. Yeah. Yeah. Which was used for the smoke monster in Lost. Oh. If you ever listen to it. Yes. Kind of an after hours on the island. Burned in my brain. Yeah.

13:12David Sims:Things go wrong. Hello, Allie. Welcome to Blank Check. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. There was some back and forth in terms of figuring out the right episode to get you on. We knew we wanted you on the show. It feels like we landed on the right place. Yeah. Especially with this being your favorite. This is my favorite. Yes. Um... It's so good. I love Alice, though, too, but this is my number one.

13:35Griffin Newman:Right. You were thinking maybe doing Alice. Yeah. Doesn't live here anymore. If you want to shout out Alice, of course. Shout out. Shoot. But, you know, this sort of young downtown energy of After Hours. It's a New Yorkie movie about being crazy. We all can relate to this, I feel, in a very profound way. I have never been a diner waitress. No.

13:57David Sims:I have been a little bit of a Paul Hackett. I think everyone has Paul Hackett is like the shadow self. He's exactly how you hope you were not perceived by others in the world. Right. Not not as evil, but just like. He's so stupid. I forgot how stupid he was. He's so lame in a lot of ways. Yeah. You know, and it's fascinating because when he wants to be Griffin Dunn can be like the most charming person in the world. There are there are moments of that. Totally. But it feels like Scorsese was like, you got to tamp it down. Yeah. You know, like, don't win over the audience at every moment. He's like, don't have sex for eight weeks.

14:34David Sims:One of the great stories. Do you know this, Ben? We will talk. Wow. Yeah. There's some great details about this. But this is also, this is a fascinating, just to get ahead of it, this is a project Griffin Dunn develops because he doesn't feel like they're good roles out there. And he's like, I'm going to make the movies for myself. his producing partner is Amy Robinson who was the female lead in Mean Streets and this movie in one of the most fascinating what if a what if alternate timeline that only Griffin from Men in Black 3 could consider was originally offered and signed on to direct the debut film of Tim Burton off of Frankenweenie it was supposed to be Tim Burton's debut feature film but we definitely talked about this

15:19Griffin Newman:on our Tim Burton miniseries

15:20David Sims:we did because it's a fascinating thing And then Amy Robinson's like, it's a crazy idea. Can I send this to Marty and see if he wants to do it? Why not? I'm going to say it's always worth just shooting Marty a text. I know his phone number. Yeah.

15:37Griffin Newman:1-800-SCORSESI. 1-800-SCORSESI. It's a direct line. It works every time. He can text from it and everything. Wasn't Burton also like, I don't want to get in the way of Marty. Yeah, I think Burton. Give it to him. Right. We'll talk about it. But Burton was like, Martin Scorsese? I'll do something else. I'll do Pee Wee. I will say, so I... That's crazy. I had no idea that he directed Pee-wee until very recently. Wow. Educating the youth.

15:59David Sims:A social fashion. I'm going to stop it with that now. You are a grown person. When you watch the Pee-wee-as-himself documentary that's so fucking good, Paul Rubens talks about how haunted he was by, like, Tim Burton getting all the credit for Pee-wee, where he was like, this guy was like a rocket ship and everyone assumed he was the genius and I wish I had directed it myself. and then nowadays people are like he directed that burton started there he wasn't birthed out in beetlejuice right um the i i know griffindon a little bit we'll talk about it further in this episode but the way he told the story to me one time is that he was really contrite and he went to tim burton and he was like tim this is like a really difficult conversation but martin scorsese is kind of interested in doing this movie now i'm not like firing you we can talk about it and Burton was like, are you kidding me?

16:52David Sims:You owe me zero apology. If Martin Scorsese wants to make your movie, I wouldn't dare make a movie that he's even flirting with. Yeah. Like, fine, settled. Absolutely. You owe me no apologies. All good. Congrats to you. And then he just like immediately rebounds onto Pee Wee, which comes out the same year or the year after this? I think it's the year after is this 86 or 87 this after hours is 85 this film is 85 okay but so is peewee

17:20Griffin Newman:wow same year yeah this came out first after this came out a month later september wow wait what's the release date of each one i'm doing okay september 13th for signs for everything which does not fit after no no but i guess i guess studios probably don't take that into to account when setting release dates. No, I don't think they're thinking about it.

17:39David Sims:I'm seeing here that Pee-wee's sign is a pancake face. Wow. With bacon mouth. Pee-wee August 9th, so a Leo. That's a Leo. That makes sense. A little. Makes more sense. Yeah. Pee-wee's a lion. Yeah. You know, he's got a bravado. A mighty mane. We all have those images from childhood that are like so formative and burned into our brains and Pee-wee rescuing animals from the burning. One of the funniest things. Pat's store is just like, it's like my first memory almost. Beautiful. You were raised well. My dad was a huge peewee head. It's maybe the funniest movie ever made. I saw it again recently in theaters.

18:13David Sims:And it is insane how joke dense that movie is and how 50 % of the jokes are jokes that still feel like one of one. I need to rewatch. I haven't seen it as an adult.

18:22Griffin Newman:I don't think it's the funniest movie ever made. But as I'm sure we said at the time, it is maybe the funniest movie ever made where the ingredients do not seem... Like you're like, how could this be good? And then you watch it and you're like, oh my God, it's so good. You know what I mean?

18:36David Sims:Almost everything that's funny in it, you can't explain in a way that sounds funny. Yes, tough to explain.

18:40Griffin Newman:Oh, yeah. We covered it. Well, if you have a thought, obviously, you weren't on our period. No, trying to explain anything kind of kills it. This is true. Anyway, let's explain the movie After Hours.

18:50David Sims:When did you first see After Hours, Griffin Newman? If this is a big sort of Griffey movie? My parents would joke that I was named after Griffin Dunn. Funny. Because I was named after nothing and for no reason. They just like the name. As I maybe said before, my parents had lists that they had created and didn't agree on anything. My mom, it was all like Gaelic names. Gaelic? Oh, French. Seamus. No, no, like Irish. Oh, Gaelic.

19:15Griffin Newman:Yeah.

19:16David Sims:I'm sorry. Gaelic names. Seamus? Yes. Imagine if he was called Seamus. I can kind of see it. It was shit like that. And then as my father put it. We could be like, for shame.

19:28Griffin Newman:You're late again. Yeah. Okay. My father put it, his list of names. James and David. Wait, that kind of worked. I know. But it would have to be David and James. David and James. That's fine. David and James.

19:40David Sims:Here's the other side of the equation. My father's list was all, as he puts it, R &B singer or blaxploitation character names. Such as? So the top two he always mentioned were Rufus and Tyrone.

19:55Griffin Newman:Your parents were so cracked out, my friend.

19:58David Sims:I don't know what to say. They were living that fucking after hours life. You come out and they're like,

20:03Griffin Newman:I'm in Tyrone for this guy. He's like, my parents wanted to name him Sinbad.

20:08David Sims:But they were basically like, Griffin is the only name that kind of fits into both like lines of thinking. Uh-huh. Sort of. Was named for, yeah, zero reason. And then they'd always joke when people were like, why do you name him Griffin? It was like, Griffin Dunn. Of course, Griffin Dunn. So I, when I'd ask who's Griffin Dunn, because he wasn't in a lot of kids' movies. They'd be like, he's this guy, and he was big in the 80s, and he did this movie After Hours. And then my parents would explain After Hours to me, and it felt like a mythical premise for a movie. Like, I remember from a very young age, hearing it and thinking that's one of the best ideas for a movie I've ever heard of.

20:45David Sims:A guy goes downtown, loses the$20 in his wallet, and then he's stuck, and he can't get back home, and he can't get on the subway, and yada, yada, yada. And I was like, that sounds fun. I can't wait until I'm old enough to see that. And I probably saw it when I was like 13 or 14. Sure. That's my story. Okay, so pretty early. But it felt a little faded.

21:03Griffin Newman:Yeah. I saw this movie in college when I was like, okay, I'll watch all the margins, right? And this was the, and I think so many people have this experience. I felt I was discovering something. It's fun. Well, but also just I was like, what's this one? He directed this? Right. Like, you know, just that. Yes. Which is great when you're, you know, a youth and you're figuring out movies all by yourself and the internet's not telling you what to do.

21:25David Sims:We were talking about this with Tommy, but I feel like for a while, King of Comedy was the I'm not like the other Scorsese fans. I think it's this. And things have now, I think, swung around to after hours. I think our generation, and I say our generation because we're all the exact same age in this room right now. Yeah. I just turned 40. We're all young 40 and thriving. Paul Rudd.

21:46Griffin Newman:Who else is in that movie? Leslie Mann, Jason Segel, Albert Brooks.

21:50David Sims:What's Segel doing in that one?

21:51Griffin Newman:He's being the horny guy from Knocked Up?

21:53David Sims:He reprises his character and he's a personal fitness coach. Is he good? Kind of.

21:59Griffin Newman:He's very good at Knocked Up. Yes. Because you're like, he made a choice, which I think is funny. Everyone else is just like, I'll just be myself, which is fine. Yes. But Siegel's like, I'm going to do this thing. Right.

22:10David Sims:It's also funny that that's what leads to the launch pad of him being a leading man when none of his leading man roles are like that.

22:17Griffin Newman:Oh, right.

22:18David Sims:But it's also funny that he's the only one of the friend group in that movie, including Seth Rogen, that they're like, we've kept in touch with Siegel. That guy who hit on your wife at the club.

22:28Griffin Newman:Who kept talking about tits. Right. Yeah. Do you care about the cinema to Apatow? Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yeah. What was I just saying?

22:39David Sims:This is 40. We're all 40. That this has become the cool one. People like this one. When did you see this for the first time? Yeah. Last month. Right. Right. This was like my Marty, like a big Marty blind spot for me. Okay. And I knew it was, it seemed like a very me movie. Yes. I don't know why I had never tapped in, but immediately I was like, oh, this is this is my favorite one. Do you think part of things circling around to this becoming the cool pick is that it is such a snapshot of a time where you could be this disconnected? Yes. That everything that was like an anxiety dream about this movie when it was released of Imagine Everything Went Wrong is almost a little bit like satisfying to think about.

23:22David Sims:like you could just actually, if you didn't have$20 in your pocket, be off the grid. There's no phone. There's no Apple Pay. There's like, you're fucked. And New York could still have neighborhoods that were this undeveloped. Yeah, it's so, Soho now, like they're putting an Ikea in Soho. Like it's just such a different, we needed this. Oh my God, thank you. It's just such a different New York. Yes. The whole time I was like, God, his Instagram stories would be going crazy right now. Right, but he'd be posting through it.

23:51Griffin Newman:Oh God. He would be posting through it. It's so much better now. I mean, then. Yes. Now it's bad. But I was also like, you can walk. Like, I understand that defeats the whole purpose of the movie. I don't want to be that guy. But like, less than 90 minutes, you can make it up to 91st from there. Like, I've done it.

24:06David Sims:I think it says a lot about the characterization of this movie that you buy that Paul is a guy who would go, I can find a shortcut rather than just start walking uptown. And I also think part of why this movie being set specifically in Soho at this exact time period is good because it kind of feels like a place where it'd be tough to get your bearings in New York. Yeah, you're right below the grid. Right, you're below the grid. Thompson Street, what is that? Right, the blocks are weird shapes. You're below numbers. As a Soho worker, blocks aren't that weird. You got some triangles in there and shit.

24:42David Sims:If you go over to the west side, I suppose. But also it's these big, wide open streets without lights. It was so dark. Yeah. Wet-ass sidewalks.

24:53Griffin Newman:I want to make a Soho canon, and I need to look, you know, Miss 45, the Ferrar movie is all Soho. That's one. Unfaithful, the Adrian Lyne movie, has a lot of great Soho stuff. It's such an interesting landscape, mini landscape within New York because of what you're talking about. You know, the kind of weird, the cobblestones, big open streets, uniformly, like, you know, all the beautiful cast-iron buildings. It looks a little, it's like gorgeous, but it's a little encased. It's a little different.

25:22David Sims:And this is the last time that Soho is captured as just being like, this is where freak artists lives in giant cavernous apartments that no one wants. That apartment is exactly what I thought New York was going to be as a kid.

25:36Griffin Newman:This is whatever. My mom has a story about this when she lived in Manhattan at this time. And she was downtown in Soho, like getting coffee at some cool coffee place with her friend, you know, and they're being cool New Yorkers. and then her friend saw her mom on a walking tour of Soho being like led around by, you know, in a group of like nice old ladies being shown. And my mom's friend was just like, oh, Soho is over. This is it. That's it. Like fucking like this is happening. It's over. It's not cool anymore. Yeah. And Soho is over.

26:06David Sims:Wow. It is funny. Now it's all boutiques

26:08Griffin Newman:where if I walked in there,

26:09David Sims:they would throw me out. This movie might have prolonged Soho's scariness for another decade where even as it was being developed from a distance outsiders weren't thinking to visit there. No. Now it's just people waiting in line for like a croissant that sucks.

26:25Griffin Newman:And they do suck. They're bad. The croissants do suck. We both work in Soho. They're all bad. If you're ever waiting in line in Manhattan for something, for anything, it's not going to be good. No.

26:37David Sims:You should never wait in a Manhattan line. There's something. There's industry pizza. No, no. There's one thing even worse, which is paying someone to wait in line for you. If you do that, go to the Gulag. Yeah. That's the least New Yorker shit in the world. I know people who have done that. And they're excommunicated for my life. You're going to want to walk to the Hudson and then just keep walking. Keep walking to it. Keep going. Yep. Maybe you'll see something. Yeah, no, there's a Supreme store. Take a long walk off of Chelsea Pier.

27:04Griffin Newman:That's what I say to those people. It's a very New York episode, but that makes sense because we're talking about After Hours, a great 80s New York movie. I'm going to open the dossier, guys. We're just, you know, we're circling it. It's one of the classic things that happens on this fire show.

27:21David Sims:I like that she's canonizing our iconic status.

27:26Griffin Newman:Our show is fire. It is not chopped and unk.

27:29David Sims:No, no. Our show has never been less unk.

27:31Griffin Newman:I don't know, guys. Yeah, it's pretty chopped. And we're pretty unk.

27:34David Sims:We are very unk. It's not chopped. It's approaching unk. Neither you nor I are uncles. Neither am I.

27:39Griffin Newman:No, I am an uncle. You are?

27:41David Sims:Ben is?

27:42Griffin Newman:Yeah.

27:42David Sims:Like a by marriage?

27:43Griffin Newman:My wife's older brother. Uncle by marriage, yeah. Had a son, I guess a year ago. Wow. Yeah. Shout out. Uncle Ben.

27:51David Sims:Uncle Ben. Watch out for the Green Goblin or any other muggers. Yeah. I also was going to say, watch out for the woke police. They're going to kick your face off the rice bag. Have your wrists been shooting weird shit? So far. No, we're cool. Everyone's just got an Uncle Ben thing. We're all just stumbling over each other.

28:19David?

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29:52Griffin Newman:The King of Comedy is the prior film in Martin Scorsese's career. It's not successful. 200 domestic. Oh, right. Also, everyone is just Pupkin now. That is every person now. That is unfortunately true. It was very on the money about where fans of things were headed. But Martin Scorsese, of course, after making that movie, is very focused on making his follow-up The Last Temptation of Christ, okay? Which also, he wanted to have made 10 years earlier. Right. Paul Schrader had condensed a 600-page novel to a 90-minute script for him. He rewrote it with Jay Cox. Marty added a little bit with Jay Cox.

30:31Griffin Newman:In 83, Paramount, which is headed by Barry Diller and Michael Eisner and Jeff Katzenberg, You know who obviously all You know dominate Hollywood for the next 15-20 years in various ways Greenlight the movie And then as they Start to like scout locations Figure out casting Hear from nuns and priests Around the world Paramount gets cold feet

30:56David Sims:Katzenberg and Eisner suddenly find out That the movie is about Jesus Christ Something that Overlooked up until that point.

31:05Griffin Newman:You know, Aiden Quinn was going to play the Christ in that film. And obviously he's very young and beautiful at that time. And they apparently were okay with that. Marty says that some of the other casting people were nervous about will probably cover that whole saga whenever we, you know, for our last Temptation episode. I imagine so. And then the religious protests start to, you know, bubble up and all that. And Paramount is just... And also they were going to shoot in Israel. and back then you just didn't do that that much.

31:34David Sims:Why? It's a normal place.

31:36Griffin Newman:I don't mean Israel specifically. I mean just like, you know, shoot giant parts of your movie in far off places. Yes, this is true.

31:43David Sims:Everything was LA.

31:44Griffin Newman:Right. Like the way Marty puts it is like Star Trek 4, the reason they're in San Francisco is the Paramount was like, that's as far as we want you going. That's basically an overseas shoot. Yeah, like a one hour flight from LA, basically that's fine. Yeah. So It falls apart The right stuff comes out The Irvin Winkler Production Obviously Another huge flaw The film movie Does so poorly That is the final blow Yeah That they're just like This auteur shit Big budget auteur shit We just don't like it Jack Lang The French Minister of Culture Then tries to get French money Just from like The government of France To fund that movie Exactly Very well said Jesus would have to say I can't say that in the movie.

32:30Griffin Newman:Very well said. That's the proviso, you know. Harry Offland is Marty's super agent. At the time, you know, he starts shopping around other studios, but Marty's like, I need to survive. Like, my last movie was a bomb. Yes. I can't go crazy. Like, my response to Christ falling apart can't be just to, like, go renegade.

32:50David Sims:This is his Raiders of the Lost Ark. I need to show people, like, be responsible and play ball. There is a screenplay written by Joseph Minion. Quite a good name. 21, right? Yeah. That's so crazy. I think it was the film school project, right? Yeah, it was his senior thesis, I think. He got an A.

33:10Griffin Newman:Congratulations. He got a gold star. The film was originally called Lies. Then it was retitled A Night in Soho. It was written as his Columbia thesis. He said, I was under the spell of Kafka. I was obsessed with Orson Welles' The Trial. also things like David Mamet plays which are like set in one night or whatever Henry Miller Norman Mailer's The American Dream I was frantically like moving apartments in New York when I wrote it so that energy is in there a little bit like I felt homeless in New York he's putting a little bit of that in he was just kind of going crazy and he wrote After Hours which is so good it's a pretty perfect screenplay It really is.

33:56David Sims:The film's obviously well-directed by Martin Scorsese. Have you heard him? Yes. You're never going to believe this, David. It's actually a really funny coincidence. He is the director we're currently covering on this fire-unchopped podcast. But I do think this screenplay is so clever and perfect. Yes. It is. It's a money-in-the-bank premise. It is one of those movies that kind of is like unofficially remade every five years. Right. I feel like people keep trying to do it and no one has ever gotten close. Right. It's wild how it feels easy.

34:31Griffin Newman:The one crazy night sort of movie.

34:32David Sims:Well, you could just riff on this. And even the amount of people who have done the New York version of it alone. I mean, even in the last 10 years, there was The Night Before is basically doing this on Christmas Eve.

34:43Griffin Newman:Nick and Nora's infinite playlist.

34:45David Sims:The Lovebirds, the completely forgotten Michael Showalter directed Issa Rae Kumail Nanjiani comedy. I never saw that because I was kind of a COVID movie. It was one of the first planned wide theatrical release movies that they just announced it's going on fucking streaming. They sold it to Netflix immediately. It's not very good. And I remember even I auditioned for like a couple small parts in that. And on paper, you were like, yeah, sure. It's been too long since someone tried to make After Hours. These are the right people. This will be funny. It never works. No, I think like you said, it just setting it in any modern year is not, it just takes the magic out of it.

35:23David Sims:Phone heard it. That's a lot of it. And I also think a lot of it is that people try to pile up too much incident. They get too crazy with the one crazy night.

35:33Griffin Newman:Yeah. What's, you know, the way that date night descends into like guns and spies and all that shit. Another perfect example.

35:39David Sims:Date night is action movie after hours.

35:41Griffin Newman:How about good time? Oh, sure. I mean and Uncut Gems that's like one crazy night the worst version right Uncut Gems

35:47David Sims:they share so much DNA that also it goes a little more into crime thriller do you know what I'm saying yes you're right because I think if it's like things spiraling out of control after crime go wrong that's different than the after hours which is quote unquote this happens to an ordinary person okay the ordinary-ish right you know the yuppie nightmare it's funny the whole way through you're stressed out but it remains funny the entire time it's hilarious and you want to see him go through the ring. Yeah. That's the other part of it. Yeah. Go on, Allie. No, there's just, there's a point in any Safdie crime movie where like the anxiety just overtakes everything.

36:21You're not feeling any humor anymore.

36:23Griffin Newman:Yes. And you're with a person who through some lenses might be considered villainous. I mean, in good times. Toxic. Yeah. He's a little,

36:30David Sims:yeah, a little toxic. Yeah. Main character syndrome at times. But I think that's another part of it is that this movie has a take on this character because he is the yuppie nightmare people miscalculate thinking, oh, if you make it more of an everyman and the audience is let in and the character is a surrogate, it becomes more of a conventionally fun comedy where you're watching them struggle. Them going, what? What's happening? Instead, you want a character where you want to see the screws turn in on them. Yeah. And him being sort of an everyman makes it better because as soon as Rosanna Arquette dies, you're like, well, where the fuck is this going for the next hour?

37:09David Sims:Yes, yes. When everything is coming from the people around him, You don't know. You think it's good that Roseanne Arquette dies? You like her death? I think his reaction to it is so funny. It's so funny.

37:19Griffin Newman:He's like, fuck. Exactly. Exactly. JJ wants to point out, and I think this is interesting, you know, the unmentioned thing is that the film is very obviously influenced by Joe Frank, the writer and performer of radio dramas and monologues. It's been alleged by Joe Frank and others that the opening act is basically ripping off a 1982 monologue he had called Lies, which is the first title of this script. Which had this 10-minute segment about meeting a weird woman in Greenwich Village. And he says, like, I saw the movie. I was like, oh, yeah, like, this part is ripping me off. And then he was like, to be clear, the rest of the movie's not.

38:00Griffin Newman:Like, then it goes in whatever direction it wants. But I'm clearly, you know, being ripped off here. a 2000 profile of him by Salon. Remember Salon?

38:10David Sims:Oh boy, do I.

38:11Griffin Newman:Says that he was paid off for a film that had plagiarized some of his dialogue. That definitely is After Hours. They don't say the name, but that he did get a settlement one day for something like that. You can listen to the monologue. He's linked to it. And I'll read this URL right now. No, I love it. It'll be linked in the description. Sure we can. It's in the dossier there. You can link it out. Anyway, this script finds its way to Amy Robinson and Griffin Dunn. Via one of his teachers, Dusan Makajev. I don't know. He's a Serbian director who taught at Columbia. Gives it over to Amy Robinson, who loves the script.

38:48Griffin Newman:Thinks it's so crazy and dark and cool. And I mean, I guess the real question is, is like, is Griffin Dunn famous?

38:58David Sims:No, no. This is what I want to zoom out for a second to talk about. So Amy Robinson. Who produced the film with Griffin Dunn. And is very good in Mean Streets. and basically doesn't act again. Has a couple little things, but was very open about... She's the female lead of Mean Streets, to be clear. She was very open about that she just felt like the stuff she was reading was dog shit. Sure. And I think she... Not Dog Day. No, she wishes she was reading Dog Day. But she was like, I was just in Mean Streets. And she's reading scripts where she's like, all of this sucks. I don't want to be in bad movies after I've been spoiled by being in a great movie made by one of the best directors ever.

39:36David Sims:So she starts getting more interested in producing. Griffin Dunn is a very well-connected young man. His father's Dominic Dunn. He comes from the Dunn-Diddian sort of larger orbit, right? So this is someone who's kind of like from a young age at the nexus of like high culture in the United States of America and certainly in the tri-state area. And I think he had a similar kind of frustration of, I have all this ambition to be an actor and the auditions I'm getting suck. Like, he just has all this piss and vinegar to be like, I'm going to find projects that I produce for myself to star in so I can will the kind of vehicles I think I should have into the world.

40:18David Sims:He also produces a ton of shit that he's not in. Like, he and Amy Robinson have an incredible producing track, including Chili Scenes of Winter and Running on Empty.

40:28Griffin Newman:Yes. Correct. That's like the kind of stuff they're working on while this is all coming together.

40:33David Sims:It's a little like Michael Douglas where it's like, despite being so well connected I'm not clicking as a movie star let me start producing stuff and maybe eventually if I'm legitimate enough as a producer I can produce my own vehicles and people won't say this is self-dealing or whatever

40:50Griffin Newman:Chili Scenes of Winter is John McClendon Silver it's a great movie that's like 79 Baby It's You that's a

41:00David Sims:John Sells movie I've never seen that that's his first he has a small role in that, right? He's not the lead. It's Richard... Roseanne Arquette and Vincent Spano. Vincent Spano.

41:11Griffin Newman:Yes. Also the first Robert Downey Jr. movie. And he would later play Iron Man. Excuse me, his first movie is Pound.

41:17David Sims:Yes, his first movie as like an adult. Yeah. Pound is an incredible Cinematrix play. Does Gryffindon have an acting role in that one?

41:27Griffin Newman:Not that I can see, but maybe he had a tiny one.

41:30David Sims:Let's take a look at that. But obviously it connects him with Roseanne Arquette. but it connects him with...

41:33Griffin Newman:He has a small role in Chili Scenes. He has a... No, he's just a producer on Baby. But he is obviously in American War from London. Yes. The John Landis movie. Which he's excellent in. He's excellent in. He's very good. He's not the star. David Naughton is the main guy. But he's the guy who pops. He's the fun character.

41:51David Sims:He has the dreams where he's all fucked up. Yeah, and he's got the color. He's got all the exciting... Have you seen that film? A long time ago. I don't remember much of it. It's very good. It's an excellent movie made by someone who's responsible for several deaths. In that sort of canon, it's pretty close to the top, I would say. It's really good. But it's got this great device where at the beginning of the movie, spoilers for the basic premise of American Werewolf in London, these two backpackers are mauled by wolves and one survives and one doesn't. And the one who survives is haunted by his friend.

42:26David Sims:And Griffin Dunn is the friend who appears to him in these long conversations. but every time he shows up, his body's decaying further. So it starts with just, he's got the scars and then his skin is rotting and then he eventually becomes a skeleton. That's the other thing. So every image of him in the movie past the first 20 minutes is iconic because it's Griffin Dunn wearing Rick Baker at the peak of his game. Just the most depressive.

42:50Griffin Newman:Yeah, just so cool. And he gets to be the fun character

42:52David Sims:because he's the sort of afterlife, let me explain to you what's happening guy. Now in After Hours, he's the After Hours guy. guy. Right. And his skin is pretty good. Sure. Well, he gets a little sweaty. A little clammy. Yeah, but it looks good.

43:06Griffin Newman:Okay. He's not breaking out. We crushing on Griff?

43:09David Sims:Been done? I'm gonna pin a thought here that I want to discuss more. And this is a thing that it feels like our very young collective generation talks about a lot online, the cool place where the kids are, is why don't people look normal in movies anymore? We've lost normal people. Sure. He is such a perfect example of that sort of complaint of like, he's a very handsome, charming man, but his teeth are a little yellow. They're normal. He's got some weird gaps. He's got the unibrow. You know, his chest hair pattern is not, like, carved. You're making him sound like an ogre. No, but this is the thing.

43:42David Sims:Compared to movies today. I totally get what you're saying. Everyone in this movie, Roseanne Arquette is so beautiful. Yeah. But she doesn't have veneers. No. Oh my God. She hasn't gotten a bleph. Yeah, but I hate the bleph. Can I say I hate the bleph? See, I think I hate the bleph and then I'm like, would I get it? Yeah. I'm not gonna. It's the opposite of the look I like. Okay, so I've been watching videos of women's blephs. They cut the, it's horrifying. They cut the skin off of your eyelid and then pull it up so that you're like, when your eyelid is hooded, it like removes the hood. So it's why, you know, like Emma Stone's eyes?

44:17Allegedly. You know how they look bigger now?

44:20David Sims:Yes. Bluff. You don't need eyelids. You'll start noticing it everywhere. Eyelids are hot. I like eyelids.

44:25Griffin Newman:They're a thing I'm attracted to. Sure. Did we evolutionarily, like, grow eyelids because they protect our eyes and keep them moist? We don't need them anymore.

44:35David Sims:Is the Bluff thing going to be like the jerk where in two years all of these people are blind and it just turns out they've been like, the dust has been going straight? That is my fear. Right. It's so scary. Don't get near my eyes. It looks weird. This is a movie where incredibly beautiful, charismatic people all look like human beings. Catherine O 'Hara is so beautiful. This movie is a babe parade. Let's just be honest. We're talking about watching this recently. Babe, babe, babe, babe, babe, babe, babe, babe, babe. When Catherine O 'Hara died and we were in the middle of a record and we were all really upset and I went home and I was like, I want to watch something.

45:08David Sims:What should I watch? You were like, After Hours. Yeah. And I did, knowing that this series was coming up or likely, I only watched from Catherine O 'Hara on. Yeah. But she's Hall of Fame in this. And we should acknowledge that among other things, this of course is a Home Alone prequel that explains how Kevin McAllister's parents meet. They're part of a woke mob together. Wow. She's always looking for someone. She is.

45:32Griffin Newman:John Heard was hot. He's the, John Heard, who plays the angry bartender, I guess in this one, is the star of Chili Scenes of Winter. It's a lot of the kind of like Edie Robinson, Griffith Dunn verse.

45:44David Sims:And then people that Scorsese loves. Like Scorsese loved SCTV. I'm supposed to direct that weird Netflix thing. Catherine Herrera feels like a move from him. This is her at her. Yeah.

45:55Griffin Newman:She is so fucking... But I mean, Fiorentina, I mean, our cat, like you're saying, Terry Gahr, Pert of Bloom.

46:02David Sims:What if you fumbled the four coolest women of the 1980s? And haven't we all been there?

46:07Griffin Newman:Unfortunately, yes. He's just fucking... It's a fumble parade. Beau Bichette up there just swinging a mess. Who's Beau Bichette? He's on the mess right now. He's having a bad time. I love you, Beau Bichette. All right. So they love this script. and then they watch Vincent, the short by Tim Burton. We discussed this a little bit, I think, on our Tim Burton series, which was his sort of calling card short. It's very good. You can watch it. It's stop motion. It's really great.

46:29David Sims:Yeah, it's on a lot of the Nightmare releases. It might be on Disney+. You certainly can find it. Has Frank and Weenie not happened at this point?

46:35Griffin Newman:No, it's just Vincent that they are intrigued by him, you know, off of. And they go and meet him. He was still at Disney. They said he was this, you know, he had like, you know, a short sleeve shirt and then pens in his pocket that are like bleeding into the shirt. You know, they're basically just like, this is right, a genius, but like a little dork. And he'd already done little drawings of the characters. He'd read the script. You know, he'd drawn characters with the big bug eyes, like any Tim Burton thing.

47:03David Sims:Dunn told me that he was building like extensive models. Like he made little foam board kind of, and this is what the set would be in the angles and everything. It was going to be a lot more stylized.

47:13Griffin Newman:Now, so now their package is Griffin Dunn is the star and Tim Burton is the director. They actually get Terry Garr attached pretty early. And she's a pretty fucking big deal. She's an Oscar nominee, but no one is interested. Like as much as it is kind of like, oh, Burton stepped aside. It's also like at the very most, they were just going to get a tiny budget for this thing because it was this like weird dark movie that they're pitching around. And of course, Amy Robinson does know Martin Scorsese because she was in Mean Streets. So she says we hadn't gotten too far with Tim We hear Last Temptation got shut down And I'm like look You shouldn't ask

47:51David Sims:This doesn't hurt to ask

47:53Griffin Newman:And as we said Tim Burton's like I'm not saying it I gratefully withdraw I will not be fighting with Martin Scorsese over this I'm sure I'll figure it out Which he does And it all worked out

48:06David Sims:And I guess Frankenweenie gets made in this period of time when he's attached, developed. Yeah, because that's 84 that that is,

48:15Griffin Newman:which is another short film of his that's very good.

48:17David Sims:Yes.

48:17Griffin Newman:Yes, you know.

48:18David Sims:But I think part of the impetus for him getting that off the ground, you know, it was A, Disney wanted something to do with Burton because they had him under contract, and B, Burton needed to prove that he could do live action to help kind of gain trust for After Hours. Everyone ends up fine.

48:35Griffin Newman:Marty is basically like, I am in quasi-director's jail a little bit. I'm reading scripts. None of them make any sense for me. I had almost died from doing too much coke and having such a weak body. I mean, he puts it in a slightly more soft way than that, but it's true. His body was uncontrolled. Right. And, you know, he's like, I'm not going to subject myself to fighting with executives, waking up at the crack of dawn, you know, making a movie, putting myself through this, unless it's something I really care about. Like, I'm not going to just take a gig. This is ostensibly an independent film as well, right?

49:07Griffin Newman:Sure. Well, let me see. Yeah, okay. Oh, right. Beverly Hills Cop, for example. He was offered that. Mm-hmm. With Sylvester Stallone.

49:14David Sims:You know, back when it was Sylvester Stallone. It's crazy to think that he was seen as so kind of, dare I say it, washed at that moment, that they were like, Martin Scorsese will take fucking paychecks, Stallone vehicle gigs.

49:27Griffin Newman:Because that's the thing. It's like Katzenberg and Eisner at Paramount clearly feel bad. Like, they're like, sorry we can't make you the Christ movie. Yeah. Beverly Hills Cop?

49:35David Sims:Right. And like... He's still respected, but it's like obviously you now need to work for us rather than us working with you. Right. And he's like, what's that? And they're like, it's a fish out of water movie.

49:45Griffin Newman:And he's like, what's that? You know, like he's just, it's just not his guy. And they're like, you know, he's a cop from somewhere. He comes to New York and he's like, oh, you mean like the Don Siegel picture Coogan's Bluff? And they're like, no, Beverly Hills. Stop it. Like, shush. Witness is another one. Recently covered on Blank Check. Very fire podcast. Thank you very much. and Marty was kind of like, I'm not going to Pennsylvania. That doesn't make any sense as well. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I can imagine. Now Marty, you know, he'll get his ass to Oklahoma maybe. But back then he was like, I don't know from Amish, right?

50:23Griffin Newman:Like, that's not my milieu. Don't put me in a field. Oh, they should make an after hours with an Amish guy. They should.

50:29David Sims:Like a rumspring after hours? Yes. Or he just like takes three steps away from his family home and he has the same level of panic. Where am I? Then he gets After Hours.

50:39Griffin Newman:Guess what Martin Scorsese's reaction is? I know just how this guy feels. He's reading it and he's being like, relate the hell out of this one. And he says, what it really is, it's a reaction against my year and a half in Hollywood trying to get Last Temptation of Christ made. I always make personal films. So like that I'm in this, even if I didn't write it or whatever. And yeah, he just, he loves the sort of trapped in the underworld kind of idea. you know the way he puts it is like you're playing a game you can't pass go you have to go to jail you can't collect two hundred dollars you're just like trapped in a board game that you can't leave he's so he's into it here are some of his influences on the movie isle of the dead a val luton movie that takes place like over one night on a greek island okay i've never seen that one neither have i north by northwest uh sort of like the world is against him he's been framed he's like on the right you know what i mean that movie's made by Alfred Hitchcock.

51:33Griffin Newman:That's right. That's who directed. Horny King. Yeah. And then some Fritz Lang movies like M, Ant Hunt, Woman in the Window, you know, nighttime noir-y

51:43David Sims:nightmare movies, stuff like that. Do we think that if he was alive today, Alfred Hitchcock would become a mukbang streamer?

51:50Griffin Newman:Oh, God. What is that one again? I wish.

51:53David Sims:People like pay you to eat too much food, right? Isn't that what it is? I see an eating broadcast. And the watchers are called feeders. Oh, I don't know. I think because they're pledging money. I have not gotten granular about it. Good evening. Please remember to rate, review, hit that notification bell. Delicious.

52:14Griffin Newman:I mean, wasn't his whole thing that he would have like two entrees and he'd be like, do you want food? The great story of all time.

52:18David Sims:Right. That Mel Brooks went to get dinner with him. Oh, wait, he was like, do it again. Yes. And he came with the check and he goes, one more time.

52:24Griffin Newman:He's just like, run that meal back. Yeah. You know, he's got a lot of other fucking... A mirror window, I would assume. Yeah, a lot of Hitchcock, a lot of Fitzlank. The character feels very, yeah. Yes. So it gets picked up by Geffen. Right. You know, so it is an indie, but obviously Geffen is a robust company.

52:44David Sims:It's a little closer to nowadays where a lot of studio slates are actually largely financed and partially owned by companies like Legendary and New Regency. Right.

52:54Griffin Newman:Warner Brothers distributes it. Right. Geffen funds it for$4.5 million. So like a pretty small budget. Yeah It's pretty cool

53:03David Sims:They qualified for Indie Spirit Awards

53:06Griffin Newman:And you know It comes with Griffin Dunn attached And Marty is fine with that Yeah He's never like Bobby De Niro will play the punch You know what I mean Yeah I guess he could have Been a fucker about it Yeah He could have But it's I mean it is his project Yeah Now famously I'll quote Griffin Dunn And I'll just quote him here Please Marty knew I was a single man In New York Who liked to party Mmhmm Yeah He knew I liked the ladies Oh And he said, very important for Paul Hackett to have a look of desire in his eyes throughout the whole movie. And that's what gets him into this mess in the first place.

53:39Griffin Newman:So I need you to not have sex for the eight weeks of the shoot. He basically put like boxing rules on him. No sex. You have to be like sweating horndog bullets in my movie. You know what I mean? You can't be going out having fun after.

53:53David Sims:I was just going to say, Griffin's a bit of a legendary stick man. It's someone who actually needed parameters around him. I mean, look. I think would trip into sex.

54:02Griffin Newman:Griffin Dunn is hot and cool. Yeah. It is crazy to think that Marty's just like, I know what you're like. No fucking. And Griffin Dunn's like, for how long?

54:09David Sims:But I really think his reputation preceded him as like ways throw themselves at him.

54:15Griffin Newman:Because one day, he starts to do a scene with Linda Fiorentino. And as Griffin says, I was just too goddamn relaxed. And Marty went, cut. Let me talk to you. You got laid.

54:26David Sims:Jesus shit. Was it the scene where he's giving her a massage? Yes. Yeah.

54:31Griffin Newman:That is the scene. He's like, I just come off a little too chill. And Marty was like, did you get laid, you fucker?

54:36David Sims:You fucked it all up. It's funny because that's one of my favorite scenes of his in the movie. But it works because the movie has to make him fail harder to overcorrect how smooth he thinks he's being. Yes, I agree. The moment where he thinks that she's leaning in to kiss him and actually just falls asleep on his shoulder.

54:56Griffin Newman:Yeah.

54:56David Sims:is maybe my single like favorite performance moment in the whole movie. Right.

55:02Griffin Newman:His unabrow. He says his mother is half Mexican and he got the look from his mother. Okay. Fair enough. He says he's done three movies where, this is funny, where the interest has quadrupled since it was made. American Werewolf of London, This and Practical Magic, which he directed. He's not in.

55:23David Sims:Was rudely not asked back for the sequel. One of your favorite movies ever made. It's a movie. Insane movie. That's one of your favorites. It's a demented movie. Sims has always been pushing to do a Griffin Dunn director series. I love two of his movies very dearly. It's only four? Is that right? I think that's right. You love the two studio movies.

55:40Griffin Newman:I love Addicted to Love, which is an insane movie. And I love Practical Magic. The other ones... Lisa Pickard is famous.

55:47David Sims:Which I've never seen. And The Accidental Husband. Is there another one or is it just those four? There's Fierce People. Oh, yes. Yep.

55:55Griffin Newman:And The Accidental Husband. And then did he make the documentary about Joan Didion? You know, his... Yes. Ant. Yes. Which is very good. Yeah, which was on Netflix or whatever. But that's it. Yeah. Yeah. But have you ever seen Addicted to Love? I have not. You would like it. Really? Yes. It's like Meg Ryan and Matthew Roderick, both in kind of like mid-90s, we're not sure how to still be famous and relevant era. You know what I mean? Like they're both still a little bit searching for a new thing. This is 90s? It's like 97. Okay. So like 10 years after When Harry Met's Out. Yeah.

56:27David Sims:Roderick has the most fascinating 90s. He does. I'll never get over how weird his 90s searching is where he's like, maybe I'm the guy who studies Godzilla. Maybe I'm Inspector Gadget.

56:36Griffin Newman:Yeah, but that's the thing where he's like, I don't want to always be a nerd. So I'm addicted to love. He's like, what if I'm like kind of a trashy douchebag? And it's like, no, but I'm interested in what a weird fit this is for you.

56:49David Sims:And then election is how he like closes out the decade where he's like, you fucking cracked it.

56:53Griffin Newman:Right. But it's about basically he breaks into a building and starts surveilling. It doesn't look we can't get into it right now. It's just you should check it out. Okay. And have you seen Practical Magic? Yeah, I don't love it. Whoa. How are you feeling about the sequel? Looks like just the worst dog shit. It's so crazy. Yeah. It's just... It has that look. It just looks like a sweater commercial.

57:18David Sims:You know, what, Suzanne Beer? I hate sweater commercials. You can't turn on the TV without seeing five sweater commercials.

57:24Griffin Newman:I mean, like, you've seen the trailer, right? No, no, I actually haven't seen the trailer. Oh, it's just, like, that weird flat, you know, like, it's just so bad.

57:32David Sims:Can I throw out a new theory? Yeah. Because that was, you know, everyone's reaction to the Devil Wears Prada trailer. And then I thought the final film looked fairly good. It's pretty good. You know, within our modern landscape. Yeah. I think these trailers are just like not fucking color timed. I think that so much of the look of these movies is done in post now. Yeah. And they don't even take the time to land on the look when they have, when they're constructing the trailer. It probably happens so late that all those things get dialed in. Yeah. Because you just see these trailers where you're like, why does this look like I shot it?

58:06Griffin Newman:Now, I know what color timing is, but, you know, but just in case someone out there doesn't know.

58:12David Sims:It used to be a photochemical process. Now it's a digital process. It's also sort of like digital intermediate is not the same thing, but it's sort of part and parcel with the same stage of the process, which is like manipulating the colors of the movie. either because with lighting conditions or whatever, you didn't get the exact look you want or you want to push something into an extreme. Like a movie like this is probably one where there was a lot of color timing work because it is really tough to shoot exterior nights, especially in street scenes where there's not a lot of ambient lighting, you know?

58:47Griffin Newman:Feel free to skip, but this is a fun story. Skip. Terry Garr has always been aboard. Marty knows her. For that part? Or was she almost For that part Okay Marty knows her And so she's kind of Grandfathered in She was always gonna play That part Rosanna Arquette Didn't audition I guess she'd been in Baby It's You And Marty knew her A little bit Is Susan after this? Desperately seeking? I just call her Susan That's the same year Wow She had a hot 85 That's an incredible movie Have you seen that movie? You would love it I'm really flopping No you're not flopping at all I'm just saying You would really like that movie Yeah.

59:25Griffin Newman:You would really like that one. She should be... Yeah. You watch this and you're like, why isn't she the biggest star on Earth? She had a moment where she was on the cusp,

59:34David Sims:where she was in the mix. Yeah, but you never... I don't hear people reference Rosanna Arquette in the same way that they are quick to reference other actresses.

59:41Griffin Newman:That's because the children aren't in schooling.

59:43David Sims:They're not in the schools. But, David, we got lunch with Timothy Hitmaker Simons and brought up a Rosanna Arquette story. And you went, why were you guys hanging out with Rosanna Arquette? And I was like, because she was in draft day. and you said, I have no memory of her being in that book. Sadly.

59:56Griffin Newman:And you said she felt like she was mostly cut out of it or whatever, right?

59:59David Sims:Yeah, but even still, when she shows up and stuff, weirdly, despite it being so big, it feels like everything post-pulp fiction, even if you've seen it, you're like, Rosanna Arquette was in that? Yeah.

1:00:11Griffin Newman:Yeah. Well, I mean, I love her. And I love her in this, obviously. But yeah, she kind of, she says like, everyone involved in After Hours used to hang out at this New York bar and restaurant called Cafe. Central. Bruce Willis was the bartender. De Niro and Walken were always in there. Griffin and Amy were always in there. Marty was always in there. So she's just kind of like, Marty's just tapping the downtown scene. Wait, Bruce Willis was at that point employed as a bartender?

1:00:37David Sims:No, I think it's more just he loves to tend the bar. I must just call this out quickly. I just was wanting to confirm in my head that Rosanna Arquette did get a fair amount of nominations for this movie. she got a Best Actress Supporting Role nomination from the BAFTAs for After Hours for After Hours deserved the Independent Spirit Awards nominated her for lead and this won the Indie Spirit for Best Picture yep the Golden Globes nominated her instead for Desperately Seeking Susan that same year so I think she was a little competing against herself because Desperately Seeking Susan comes out later in the UK she gets a nomination for that the next year so she is in this zone where she's like on the bubble for Oscars and getting nominated for all these movies.

1:01:22David Sims:But then I just scrolled down and noticed that, of course, in the year 2000, she was nominated for Choice Hissy Fit from the Teen Choice Awards for the whole nine yards. Did she win? She did not. She was nominated. You want me to find out? Please, because the other nomination I want to call out is the Stinkers Bad Movie Awards nominated her for Most Annoying Fake Accent for the whole nine yards. Is that a category that gets five solid nominees? What accent was she doing? New York or some shit. I have no memory. I mean, to the point, I have no memory of her being an athlete. Which year was that?

1:01:57Griffin Newman:Sorry, the bad accent year?

1:01:59David Sims:Yeah. She has a Toto song, though.

1:02:01Griffin Newman:I was going to say, what year is the song? That's 80s for sure. So I will tell you that she lost to Adam Sandler for Little Nikki for Most Annoying Fake Ads. I want to say it's 84. That is accurate. I think that Toto album came out in 84, but I might be wrong. I'm getting a lot of... That's Isolation is the Toto album. Rosanna Rosanna It is a song about her It is about her But no that's from Toto 4 Which was 82 Oh wow okay That's of course the The album that has Africa Of course Which is of her No that's a Weezer song Okay I can also tell you Yeah we're young here That We're so young Weezer of course Weezer The band of Gen Z Weezer Weezer No it kind of There's a portion of Gen Z Who is very Weezer They've reclaimed it What What Me Ritual sacrifice that Rivers Cuomo do To get another generation's worth It's them doing like the fucking Africa cover I don't like their Africa cover It really irritates me Do an irritating cover of something?

1:03:00Griffin Newman:And I truly loved Weezer when I was a teen Yeah, but I stop at Green Album Yeah I'll go to What's it called? I'll go to Make Believe with Maladroit Make Believe annoys me That's the one that has Feels like Summer is a good song is it? if you hear it in a good mood it's really it's like the new Dua Lipa album I heard it in New York and it pissed me off because I was like no one feels like this and then I heard it at the beach and I was like oh okay how did you hear it at the beach?

1:03:29David Sims:I pressed play yeah I'm guessing I sat my ass down and listened step one go to beach step two sit your ass down there's something really sad what?

1:03:38Griffin Newman:I haven't been to the beach yet this year oh no a nation cries how dare I need to get to the beach maybe next week Rockaway bound A. Oh, I got a car. Oh, fuck. Oh, I drive to the car. Okay. I just said I drive to the car. David's really into boogie boarding. No. No, I am not. Can't say that. Did you? He does the banana boat. I did that once. It was crazy. I have an inflatable banana boat, and I just bring it to fucking Rockaway Beach. You blow it up with your life. After hours, too. I can tell you that the Teen Choice Award for Choice Hissy Fit was given to Lisa Kudrow for hanging up that year, which is demented.

1:04:16Griffin Newman:How many...

1:04:17David Sims:But how many teens saw hanging up? No, it's weird, but that is also the Analyze this year. That's what they should have given it to her for. Was it a title war?

1:04:27Griffin Newman:No, and I can tell you the other nominees... Or was Analyze this 99? What the fuck am I talking about? Analyze this 99. Yeah. I can tell you the nominees for Choice Hissy Fit were Lisa Kudrow, Rosanna Arquette, Joan Cusack for Toy Story 2, one of Jessie's Hissy Fits. One of her famous Hissy Fits. She's like, Woody, I don't want to be condemned to life abandoned or whatever. Yeah, right. John Cusack for High Fidelity. He has great hissy fits in that.

1:04:52David Sims:And I like nominating a man in this category.

1:04:54Griffin Newman:Cameron Diaz for Any Given Sunday. I mean, I've seen that movie plenty of times. Stop playing football. That is too violent. Angelina Jolie in Girl Interrupted. She's mentally ill. This is a very weird category. That's very different thing. Ben Stiller in Mystery Men. Now, he makes sense. He's Mr. Furious. He's Mr. Furious. All he does is throw hissy fits. Jodi Lynn O 'Keefe in Whatever It Takes, which is like a teen comedy with a James Franco look so cursed, you must look upon it.

1:05:20David Sims:James Franco kind of rocking the Travolta Pomeranian hairdo. I've had Frankos on the mind a lot recently. Oh, yeah?

1:05:30Griffin Newman:Are you okay? Doctors are available 24 hours a day in New York City. If you take antibiotics, you get that out of your system. I read If Beale Street Could Talk, and then I watched the movie. Which Dave is in, of course, playing a rabbi There's no otter casting decision

1:05:45David Sims:He's a Hasidic Jew landlord He plays a Hasidic Jewish landlord Who rents an apartment To the main couple

1:05:52Griffin Newman:I forgot about it, he's got like a sweater He's like walking around with them You read the book and you have such a clear image of him And then he shows up in the movie and he's like, hey guys, it's me What the hell? I would assume that was almost a favor to a small budget movie Like Franco's like, I'll be in your movie But it's Dave

1:06:08David Sims:But it's Dave That's the thing. It's Dave when he doesn't necessarily on paper. He's not bad. He has a yarmulke on to show that he's Jewish. And he's like the one total like white ally in the movie. Yeah. He's the one white person. He's like, don't worry guys. I just love love. It's the one. Right. He's also a hippie. He's a hippie. It's the one moment in that movie that clanks off the backboard. I don't think it was written as a hippie. I think he just was playing Dave Franco with the yarmulke on.

1:06:37Griffin Newman:It's just crazy that Choice Hissy Fit Made it all the way to 2018 Before they finally did away with it Who was the last winner? Madeline Petsch for Riverdale Wow They fucking folded TV She was Hot Cheryl on Hot Archie Get the fuck out of here I don't even know Which one's Cheryl? I don't even know I don't know Do you think Ann Dowd has a Teen Choice Award For when she put Marley down?

1:06:59David Sims:I'm looking Did she put Marley down? She put Marley down She kills that dog? Yeah, that was With a gun? A lot of people don't realize She shot Marley in the head. She breaks his neck. A lot of people of our collective generation don't realize that their first introduction to And Out was her killing Marley. I should have brought that up to her. I completely forgot.

1:07:18Griffin Newman:I'm so sorry, sweetie. She would have taken you by the hands. I can tell you that she has no Teen Choice Award. Kids Choice Awards? Do you know the kids, Lincoln? Huge oversight by them. She has a Kids Choice Award for Best Villain as Aunt Lydia.

1:07:33David Sims:Almost more surprising is that she only has won AARP movies for grown-up nomination. That is rude. For what? For compliance. Wow.

1:07:41Griffin Newman:Which she should have gotten an Oscar nomination for. She's very good in that movie. I didn't love that movie. No, I don't either. She was like undeniably. Right. She's so good. That was one of those like, that was like a DIY Oscar campaign too, right? Because that movie cost like four bucks.

1:07:54David Sims:The campaign was her being like, I'm paying out of pocket because this movie has no budget. Right. Right. Right.

1:08:00Griffin Newman:David. Yeah, we're doing great. Okay, after hours. Yes, you're right. You're so right. Okay, Catherine O 'Hara, I just want to say, as you said, Marty was a huge SCTV fan. Yep. She says she remembers being pumped up by Marty where he would go, who's this little fucker? He thinks he can tell you what to do? You're the one helping him. Like, he would, like, kind of agitate her before they called action of, like, you hate this guy, by the way. He sucks. Like, he's really annoying. John Heard, he'd been in Chili Scenes of Winter. And Cheech and Chong, of course, are in the film.

1:08:32David Sims:Now, some people count this as a canonical Cheech and Chong entry.

1:08:37Griffin Newman:Because they basically are being themselves.

1:08:39David Sims:That's the question. Being those characters. Does anything negate them being Cheech and Chong? They shout out their character names.

1:08:45Griffin Newman:Right.

1:08:45David Sims:They are called Neil and Pepe. But there's also like, you know, Corsican Brothers is a movie where kind of like the Muppet movies. They're like playing their dynamic, but they're playing other characters. Sure.

1:08:56Griffin Newman:Well, funny enough, you should mention the Corsican Brothers, because when they were in Cannes, that's how they met Marty. Right. And that's, yeah, right. And I also want to say, Dunn, you know, they have this script and Marty was like, I think these guys should be like Cheech and Chong. And Griffin was like, it could just actually be Cheech and Chong. Sure. Like, why not? You're like, they're hanging out. But yes, he met him at Cannes and then he called them and said, hey, this is Marty Scorsese. You remember me? and they said, yeah, the little Italian guy. I think it was Chong, specifically.

1:09:35Griffin Newman:I just love the idea of him saying that to Marty. Now, this might stun you guys to learn, but everyone on set, including Martin Scorsese and Griffin Dunn, were very intimidated by Linda Fiorentino, possibly because she's the hottest and coolest woman alive. Yeah.

1:09:49David Sims:We were texting with our buddies, our news and deals group thread the other day, and Fantasy just did a quick Fiorentino Hall of Fame. and she is one of those people where if you just go the top five or top six the impact she had, especially on young developing male minds was pretty seismic she's the sculptor she's the best

1:10:14Griffin Newman:but a notoriously intense person, sure, but in this movie, incredible, but did scare the shit out of everyone Will Patton in a role where you're like this is Will Patton who later plays like, you know, farmers with big mustaches or whatever. Or like evil farmers. Right. Or evil farmer with an even bigger mustache. I sold out your farm. He had been in Sam Shepard's Play Fool for Love. Marty had loved it. The Randy Quaid part, I'm assuming. Right. But apparently he was basically like, I totally knew the After Hours world. Like I got that. You know, I knew how to play like a scary, weird artist guy.

1:10:50Griffin Newman:Horst. Horst. He's so cool. Yeah. He is cool and hot. He's hot. His energy is intense. It's crazy. Yeah. Film was shot in 40 nights. For Marty, that's quick. Yeah. I would say when you watch this movie, you're like, oh, did they make it in 20 days? No, 40. But for him, that's quick. He turns to Michael Ballhaus, probably his most consistent cinematographer in his career. This is their first collaboration. He knew him from Fassbinder movies, which were very low budget, tight schedule movies. so he kind of was like, I feel like you'll be good at quick setups and all that. Versus King of Quality,

1:11:28David Sims:where as we discussed, him and his DP were kind of encouraging the worst traits in each other.

1:11:33Griffin Newman:He thought Fred Shuler was slow and it only made him slower and all that. Ballhouse had also shot Baby It's You, so he's got a little bit of that. Got it. Marty considers making this movie a rejuvenation that rekindled his love of movie making. He just loved making this movie. It was so fun and free.

1:11:50David Sims:Last Waltz is that after New York, New York, and this is that after King of Comedy where he needed to be saved a little.

1:11:57Griffin Newman:And it's like they start work at five o 'clock at night. They end at five in the morning. The streets of Soho are basically empty. It's like really easy for them to shoot versus King of Comedy where like every New York scene was really hard. And they just had the best time. You can feel it. There's a lightness about it that is really nice. Also, there's so much Goodfellas DNA and the way the camera moves and it's really fun to watch. It's so exciting. Yeah. And it's just a movie. I've shown this movie to so many friends over the years because casual cinema friends are not really aware of it, especially back in the day, I guess.

1:12:29Griffin Newman:And you could just always be like, there's a little Marty gem you don't know about, and it's this. And it's, yeah, it's the best. The ending, of course, is added later. Yes. The film tested, the ending didn't work, essentially. What was the original ending? Do we know?

1:12:42David Sims:I don't know if it's on the Criterion disc. I know it was on the original DVD back in the day where you could see the storyboards for the original ending, which are still the Verna Bloom character, but instead of her engulfing him in paper mache, he was going to crawl inside of her womb.

1:12:58Griffin Newman:So that was an idea. Yes. But the actual ending that audiences are shown, he's just still in the sculpture and it ends. Got it. He doesn't make it back to the office. What? You know, like he's just trapped. The first time I watched this, I thought that her missing husband was in the paper mache.

1:13:14David Sims:Oh, sure. Not missing. You know what I mean? But that might be sort of the implication that, yes, he's somewhere. Yes.

1:13:20Griffin Newman:Michael Powell is on set and he pitches what if he ends up in a hot air balloon and just flies over the city and they're like that's a great idea but then they're like it's a little boring though like the energy of it doesn't quite match and then he shows it to De Palma and Spielberg his buds and then someone I think it's Minion that the screenwriter actually has the idea that you're talking about that yeah that he was going to be birthed by Werner Bloom onto the West Side Highway. Would be reborn. And David Geffen is like, the money man is like, that's disgusting. I will not fund that. Once again,

1:13:57David Sims:storyboards of him crawling into her womb. Right. And then he starts doing baby Def Jam comedy. Right. We were talking about this off mic. There's an AI account that does baby Def Jam comedy and I regret to inform you that it's pretty well written.

1:14:10Griffin Newman:But Michael Powell, once again, then finally is like, what if he just goes back to work? And they're like, oh yeah, right. That makes the most sense. That's brilliant. I love this thing. testing like crazy. You can't believe it wasn't the ending they had from the get-go. Because you're like, oh, of course, this is a perfectly written screenplay. That's the idea from the beginning, right? Right. That he's right back there and the music's playing again, the Beethoven or whatever. And the camera's going crazy. The camera's going crazy and you're like, yeah, baby, that's life in New York City. Let's go Mets!

1:14:35Is this a divisive ending?

1:14:38David Sims:No. No. No. I don't think so. It tested very well. The divisive was when he didn't make it back to the office.

1:14:46Griffin Newman:But then the movie comes out and we'll talk about the movie but like and like they're kind of all like we made a fucking hit here and then it just like does fine and they're all a little non-plus they're all like what? this rocks makes like 10 million yeah it did okay

1:14:58David Sims:wins best director at the Cannes right and it wins best film at the Independence Spirits but it's like

1:15:05Griffin Newman:not a breakout but you know whatever like so it goes fuck you I guess yeah that's what Marty says and then he goes and makes color money where it's like that actually is a huge hit well sure

1:15:16David Sims:it's in the way

1:15:18Griffin Newman:in the way that you move.

1:15:31Dan!

1:15:33David Sims:I can't see you. Where are you? Oh my God! Wait a second.

1:15:36Griffin Newman:What about Zenni?

1:15:37David Sims:Wait a second. What about Zenni?

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1:15:58David Sims:Starting at under$30. And at that price, you stop asking, do I really need new glasses? That's the voice of someone stupid who I used to be. And you start asking, why wouldn't I just get a few?

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1:16:20David Sims:Yeah, I got some aviators. I got some cool aviators, reflective, so no one can see my eyes. Right.

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1:16:52David?

1:16:52David Sims:Yes? Did you know there's a new place where you you specifically can let your nerdy freak flag fly?

1:16:59Griffin Newman:I did know that because it's a real digital town, video game town. And it's populated by some of the best freelance writers on the internet, where you can read compelling editorials reviews on the latest pop culture releases get exclusive interviews with tastemakers

1:17:11David Sims:We've got coverage on meme culture, film reviews from Siddhant Al-Laka, articles dissecting television, both new and old, and a weekly podcast with some stellar guests.

1:17:21Griffin Newman:Video Game Town is run by two friends, Grant and Jared, who bring their decades of experience covering games, movies, and tech. They deliver the kind of analysis, editorials, podcasts, videos, rankings, and nerdy ephemera that you can't find elsewhere. So check them out at videogame.town. And be sure to subscribe for their backlog of evergreen video game town hall episodes wherever you get your podcasts. and if you want to support the return of fully independent web media you can directly support them on Patreon at patreon.com slash videogametown for exclusive articles and podcasts if you like world class film

1:17:51David Sims:criticism, Pokemon EV Lucians, industry talk exclusive previews, hidden gems from the past and media that's more than a little weird, consider setting up shop in town and becoming our neighbor by going to videogame.town for new stuff every single day. Who's your favorite Evie Lucian. Uh, Evie?

1:18:17David Sims:So, um, it's about, uh, Paul Hackett. He's an annoying, horny little yuppie twerp. Yes. He's, he's... He's sit at computer. With Bronson Pinchot. Yeah. They enter data. Yeah.

1:18:31Griffin Newman:He describes himself as a word processor.

1:18:33David Sims:Yes. That was like a job back then. That was a job. That was an actual job. That's not like a slang term. That's what you'd respond to the listing. Need word processor.

1:18:44Griffin Newman:It's like the computer barely could do anything. You had to put the words in it.

1:18:47David Sims:You had to massage it.

1:18:48Griffin Newman:You had to go, please, pretty, please. I consider myself a bit of a word processor. Yeah, he works at a, I don't know, a firm, a computer firm. I mean, he works in money or some shit. Who cares? And he goes to a cafe. To read. To read. The Tropic of. Is he reading Tropic Top Ancestor? Because that's why Roseanne Arquette talks to him, right? Correct. Right.

1:19:12David Sims:Because he appears to be a man of letters. He's processing those words. You know what, Allie? You are correct. Another way that Foam would have ruined the movie is if he was scrolling, she would have no idea what he was doing. If he was listening to a fucking audiobook. Yeah. If this came out today, he'd be listening to a fucking audiobook. Oh, God.

1:19:28Griffin Newman:I'm trying to find which restaurant it is, but I don't actually know. Some of the other locations are quite iconic. I love the cashier. My favorite moment in the movie, my second favorite moment in the movie is when he asks the guy for the pen and he like does a spin before he gives it to him. I think it's so fucking funny. He's practicing the dance moves all night. It is so cliched to say this movie captures that weird New York energy, but that is the vibe sometimes. It's like that is what happens. Everyone's got like some weird bit going on with them that you only like brush against or whatever.

1:19:57And it's so inconsequential, but it like, it feels crazy in the moment.

1:20:00Griffin Newman:And like, you know, there's these stores called Bodegas and they have these like sandwiches as no one else has.

1:20:05David Sims:Bacon, egg, and cheese. Wow. Can I throw out the other thing? Yes. I think this is like a fascinating AIDS crisis movie. Sure. I think it's like really deeply coded into the text of this film. It is a movie that is about a yuppie guy confidently entering a lot of what are traditionally queer spaces, and everything feels hostile to him. But it's also a movie about what are the life and death stakes of trying to hook up with one person you find attractive. you know and as he continues to like sort of bounce around different women everything has the stake of like if you say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing are you possibly putting a foot in the grave and down to him entering the punk scene you know uh dancing waiters um I mean obviously the art scene like all these different places that he's going into and these people he's interacting with and then you obviously build to a scene where he uh tries to find solace in a stranger who thinks that he's trying to pick him up, that he's a gigolo.

1:21:06And even the gay neighbors who are trying to protect the guy's apartment.

1:21:10David Sims:Right. It's one of the things that I think has made this movie age very well. I think a lot of filmmakers wouldn't have touched that stuff. Sure. You know, they would have stayed away from the queerness of New York and Soho at this point in time, especially as it was such a hot button political issue because of the AIDS crisis. And, you know, tried to make the most commercial, conventionally funny version of the movie. night movie. Right. They also probably wouldn't have Rosanna Arquette die. Spoilers like they'd stay away from some of the darkness. Oh, we'll be spoiling the film in this episode.

1:21:41David Sims:In this episode, we will be spoiling this film.

1:21:43Griffin Newman:He sort of picks up Rosanna Arquette or she kind of leaves this breadcrumb of like, well, my roommate makes plaster of Paris paperweights of a bagel of cream cheese. Which I want. Yeah. When he later in the movie is like, by the way, yes, I wanted to fuck you, but I do want the paperweight. I want the paperweight. Where are they? The papers are floating around my room right now. It actually would serve a practical purpose for me.

1:22:08David Sims:I could have put the paperweight in the basket with the$20 bill and I would have stayed in there. If they made this movie today, she'd be giving him an Etsy link. She's on Marketplace. She wouldn't say, come to my apartment. I'm waiting for an embroidered Nick's tank top right now from Marketplace. And that's what the deal here is.

1:22:26Griffin Newman:A whole tank top takes forever to embroider. I know. She was like the early. the earliest I can do is this weekend. I'm like, how fast are you embroidering?

1:22:36David Sims:I remember the other point I was going to make. Yes. Because it's invoking one of your favorite points. Fran Leibovitz, close friend of Martin Scorsese, directed two different things about her. The criterion commentary is Marty and Fran.

1:22:50Griffin Newman:I got to listen to that.

1:22:51David Sims:Yeah, it's good. But she has her great taste.

1:22:53Griffin Newman:She's just like, sodas are too expensive. I don't know, whatever. You can't get a cab.

1:22:58David Sims:It's a dollar per bubble. She has the great take that you love to bring up, where the real devastation of the AIDS crisis was that it knocked out all the people who fucked. Yes, she's like, everyone cool died, and then New York sucked forever. Right, right. And this is a movie that's capturing the final moments of not just a New York City that feels a little bit dangerous and undeveloped, but also a New York City as, like, these communities are starting to get hollowed out.

1:23:23Griffin Newman:Yeah.

1:23:23David Sims:You know? Yeah. And I think that's what's smart about it sort of, like, without ever directly stating it, making it this movie that's about sex and danger and exploring the city and the nightlife and everything is you're watching a thing like disappearing in real time. Sure. And even just the emptiness of the streets. It's a little ghost. Exactly.

1:23:41Griffin Newman:Right.

1:23:42David Sims:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. That's what the movie is about is sort of like, is any one night stand you have possibly going to lead to the end of everything? Yeah. And even in that cavernous apartment when he thinks that he's going to go back out and there will be two people there and then there's just suddenly nobody there. Well, and it's also a straight man suddenly entering hookup situations that are, I would say, at this point in time, closer to the kind of like clandestine, deeply closeted, fearful circumstances that many queer hookups were happening in down to just being like, whose fucking apartment is this?

1:24:17David Sims:Why is that name crossed out? Like everything is a little bit mysterious and risk versus reward for him. And it's all just driven by, God that girl at the diner is really fucking hot I'm gonna write down her number and try to just go to her place Another thing that I think Younger generations have like Immense nostalgia for where it's like you meet a person You pick someone up And they just go like come here later You don't have to send 17 texts To be like OMW need me to pick anything up Still good to come over You don't need to arrange like

1:24:50Griffin Newman:Pretend like hey let me go up into your apartment And see what it's like Right. Yeah. You don't have to text the group chat like dead bodies in that room. You just hang up papers.

1:24:59David Sims:You just hang up the papers. It's actually impressive how quick the turnaround time is on the flyers because they're also well designed. They look great. She's talented. Yellow paper.

1:25:07Griffin Newman:This is what he won't acknowledge. He can't see the forest from the trees here. Once I'm in an apartment with Catherine O 'Hara, I'm just like, everyone else I forgot. I'm just like, what are we doing? Me and you right now. Forget it.

1:25:18David Sims:To paraphrase Ben, if I'm in this movie, it ends with me owning an island with Catherine O 'Hara. I go, hey, this is the real thing. What if we leave the country and go somewhere where they maybe couldn't extradite me?

1:25:33Griffin Newman:So he gets in a cab and has a hilarious chaotic cab ride where he loses his money. It's like a roller coaster ride. Right. It's very, very funny. And he's trying to hold up his empty wallet as proof that there was once a$20 bill there. Which I think is very funny. It's so funny. Look, that's where I went

1:25:49David Sims:These hold money, right Surely there was one's money The funniest moment in the movie is the subway moment, right? It's just like such perfectly dialed in Well, both subway moments Yes

1:25:57Griffin Newman:The fair's gone up guy

1:25:59David Sims:Yes And then the later guy I love that guy

1:26:01Griffin Newman:He's just like, what if I go to a party?

1:26:03David Sims:That one shot of him jumping, running straight into the cop And then having to backtrack Yeah

1:26:08Griffin Newman:That he jumps back out Even though he could just walk through It was so funny He's like, that's the train, that's the one I wanted He's so funny That is my work stop, Spring Street, on the C and the E. You work for Blank Check Productions. Oh, that's so true. Yeah. And there, my work stop, of course, is, we'll throw them off the scent. Are you taking the 6 from Spring or the A, C, E? I take the C from my gym to work.

1:26:30David Sims:Blank Check Productions, your stop is Runkonkama.

1:26:33Griffin Newman:Yeah, that's right. Everyone get out there, too. Runkonkama. Yeah, no, the IND 6th Avenue. Spring Street Stop is where they film all the subway stuff. Because he's stuck down there. He's stuck in Soho. But first, of course, he gets to Kiki's. Before his trials really begin, he invokes the taxi, the cabbie's wrath, but he makes it to Kiki's apartment. Right.

1:26:56David Sims:He only gets kicked out at the moment he reveals that he doesn't have the money when he's already made it to the destination.

1:27:01Griffin Newman:Marcy is Rosanna Arquette. Kiki is Fiorentina. But she's there, and she's making... 28 Howard Street. Sure. Yeah, you can go there anytime. How much does that cost now? Okay, you want me to look it up? Zillow? Zillow it. and she's making a giant papier-mâché sculpture of a screaming person. Let's see. Unit 3.

1:27:20David Sims:It says price on request. Fuck you.

1:27:22Griffin Newman:Just tell me.

1:27:23David Sims:It's a multifamily building in New York. It was built in 1915.

1:27:28Griffin Newman:I mean, so Soho does have, you know, these incredible cast iron, like, buildings that are so distinctive and cool and obviously they all cost a billion dollars. It still kind of looks the same. Have any of you ever been to one of those Soho lofts? Sure. Not a loft, no. I toured some horrible Soho apartments, but never anything like that. Yeah. My buddy's aunt bought in the 70s an apartment on Franklin Street. Whoa. And so more like Tribeca, I guess. It was insane. It really was the same layout like it is in this movie. Just a giant open room with huge high ceilings. It was so nice. It's so funny.

1:28:08David Sims:You see an apartment like that, and the answer is either, like, my family invented paper, and this is one of 20 places I own, or I was a waitress in 1972, and I took my tips one night and bought the building. I can tell you that apartment three on 28 Howard Street, which is a one-and-a-half bedroom, like, four-through unit, rented for$17 ,000 a month.

1:28:35Griffin Newman:Do you have pictures? I can send you some.

1:28:37David Sims:Now, to our listener, that is expensive and absurd and should be illegal. Absolutely.

1:28:42Griffin Newman:I also, Ali, sent you a plaster of Paris paperweight that Ben found on Etsy. Thank you. What, you just sent to me? He sent it to us. Oh, thank God. I'll be buying. $78. So, worth every penny. Worth it. So, yeah. All right. So, the first sort of set piece is, right, like, interacting with crazy old Kiki, who's so cool and scary and sexy. and then Marcy comes home and sort of is odd. And there's the suspicion that there is a burn situation, I guess. I mean, how do we describe Griffin? I'm sorry.

1:29:14David Sims:I just need to call out the Etsy listing for this plaster of Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight. The seller is Kiki's bagels. Yes, it's very funny. I like that.

1:29:23Griffin Newman:It's very, you know, it's not a coincidence. They're going for it. Yeah, come on.

1:29:27David Sims:Talk me through the Marcy Kiki part. This is another thing that feels a little AIDS coded to me of there was just sort of like something mysterious about her body. Linda Fiorentino at first keeps talking about how nice his skin is and how he doesn't have any scars and how bad scars are. And then he keeps seeing these things. He sees medication. Burn creams or whatever. He sees this book of burn victims. And he has this very deep-seated health anxiety from when he was younger. Totally. Yes. Because something happened. He went to the burn ward. Right. Even though he didn't have burns and the nurse was doing like psychological warfare on him of like, hey, if you take off your blindfold, we're doing more surgery on you.

1:30:00David Sims:Yes. And right, he's sort of fascinated. He's worried about what he's going to see if she undresses, but also still kind of fascinated and wanting an answer. Right. And everything about this woman seems mysterious. You know, everything that was like alluring about her at the diner now all starts to feel a little bit dangerous or unhinged or messy. What's like the Gen Z term? How do we describe her? Like she has a disorder for sure. Okay, that's the term now. I can't diagnose. She's acting funny. Mentally unstable? Is that what the kids say? She seems right. She would have good Instagram stories is how we say it nicely.

1:30:39Griffin Newman:There we go. And like that is what he has, I feel like, the barest grasp of. He actually doesn't understand that really what's going on with her is she's just a very troubled person. Yes. He thinks there's some like mysterious burn thing going on with her. He thinks like... He's not just like, oh, she's wildly depressed or manic or something like that. He's acting like if you pull the ribbon

1:31:01David Sims:around her neck, her head will fall off. And instead it's like this person has had several very abusive relationships. No, yeah, indeed.

1:31:11Griffin Newman:What are you typing? My wife's asking for a good place to go for a drink tonight with her girl. It's not with me. I'm uninvited. My condolences. I'm doing bedtime. That's fine.

1:31:22David Sims:What books in the lineup? Do you pre-select what you're going to do for bedtime?

1:31:26Griffin Newman:No, my daughter picks, obviously. For a while, she had these kind of like basic, like Marvel superhero books that she bought. Like when we went to the bookstore, she was like Captain America. Are they the little golden books?

1:31:37David Sims:They're that vibe. But they're the ones that are like, hello, my name is Captain America. This is my shield. It's like a lot like that. It's like explaining his stats.

1:31:45Griffin Newman:It's sort of explaining the origin story in a very like tasteful way. You know, whatever the origin story might be. It's like the back of a trading card spread out across 15 pages. Yeah, they're really, they're awful. I mean, she's been reading lots of cool books as well. Is she still rocking the Dwayne Johnson? She hasn't touched on him in a while. Maybe he'll return. In what sense? So Ben can explain, but he bought my daughter a little golden book. Correct. Classic. About the life and times of Dwayne Johnson. They make that. His divorce. His divorce is in the book. It is in the book. Someone's not like on Etsy making that.

1:32:18I'll show you the cover. Wow. Was she just completely like taken? Wow. Yeah.

1:32:25Griffin Newman:She calls it Rock Book.

1:32:30Griffin Newman:He is, as I've said on this podcast before, oddly mostly concerned with the launch of his career, barely touches on the movies. It's mostly about him being a football player, In like 20 years, she'll have references that kids her age don't have. She'll be like, you know, Wayne's staff. The Rock actually started out as a wrestler.

1:32:46David Sims:What's smart is that he built a business flywheel in which all the different elements feed into themselves. Yeah, I know what she, I mean, there's this book.

1:32:55Griffin Newman:Finally ready to expand into the tequila space. Tickle Octopus, if you guys know that one. It's a big one for her right now. I don't know. You know, she's got lots of... They can tickle because they have eight arms. It's about a bunch of... A family of cavemen who, like, find an octopus and then they, like, it teaches them to laugh. I don't know. It's a very strange book. I was not expecting that Tickle Octopus would be out. Neither did I. Neither did I. And yet. But, you know, okay. So, all right. Why does he leave the apartment? He's just unnerved. He just is freaked out.

1:33:23David Sims:No one transitions like David Sims.

1:33:26Griffin Newman:I'm just, I'm like, I'm keeping us going. I'm keeping us going, baby. No, no. Like, right? Like, there's no, she's just increasingly odd and he just kind of freaks out, right?

1:33:35David Sims:Yeah, and he's also had the extended flirtation with Linda Fiorentino where you feel him. She seems down to fuck.

1:33:42Griffin Newman:And Roseanne Arquette's like kind of like odd.

1:33:45David Sims:She shows up at the door with her top off and she's like, is she home yet or what? Asks for a massage, falls asleep on his shoulder. David's fanning himself. I mean she's just such an original crush for me Her voice is so deep in this movie too I know she's got the smoky voice to begin with This feels like the deepest Even when you hear her on the intercom And she's like come upstairs I just want to take another locust She sounds like fucking Jigsaw You want to play a game? She does kind of Jigsaw She does a little She has a light Jigsaw

1:34:14Griffin Newman:You're right She kind of teaches him a lesson And it is like Saw in that it's like The sculpture's there from the beginning

1:34:20David Sims:You have five minutes to give me a massage or else you end up inside papier-mâché. She's just so cool in this movie. When she throws the keys with her mouth. Awesome.

1:34:31Griffin Newman:That's another like New York thing that there's not enough of that anymore. The old dropping the key out the window because I don't have like a fancy buzzer. Now it's a freaking fob.

1:34:41David Sims:Nowadays you're airdropping a door code. No, I was fishing in my bag for my keys the other day. another guy who lives in my building walked up, had his app open, and he did that. Fuck that! Pissed me off. The door opened automatically when he... Yeah, he has the app to open the door. I was like, that's gross. What's the app called? Knob? Is it Castle? Yeah, it's British. Is it Castle?

1:35:04Griffin Newman:We use Castle to get into my... Castle? Yeah, to get into my office. Nathan Fillion's app? Yeah, it's Nathan Fillion. The show's not enough for him? Griffin, the app has an incredible amount of fun sexual chemistry with the cop and he's the author. That's all in the app. You know, the app is just buzzing with this kind of like, will they, won't they thing. Bones, but he's more arrogant or something. I guess so. I just, I don't really, I never really watched Castle, but like in Bones, at least it's like, he's like, I work for the government. I'm like, I'm an FBI agent or whatever. Like my job is to do this and we need you anytime we find Bones.

1:35:39Griffin Newman:She's a bone expert. And so the tension is there where he's like, I really, this is really more my thing. And she's like, but the bones, right? And he's like, ah. In Castle, it's what, it's just like, there's a crime when he's like, I read a book about a crime once. Like, she should just be like, shut the fuck up. Be quiet.

1:35:53David Sims:He's a crime novelist. And it's like, he writes the best mysteries so he can solve them. Okay. It is. It's crazy that Nathan Fillion was like, we love him. King of the geeks. Oh, it's a shame. He never became a movie star. You watch Firefly. He should have been Harrison Ford or whatever. And then he's just like 20 years of network television. Castle and the rookie. The rookie. Remember that? Ben started leaning in when we said bones

1:36:16Griffin Newman:David, what are you doing? Sorry, I just, I can't help but talk about bones Whenever it comes up I get it It's just so funny You're telling me? It's so funny York is overrun with bones fever right now There's so many bone crimes You can feel it Ben, bones Bones Bones After us I'm so excited Oh, I'm doing it now Never mind Say it, say it, say it I'm going to Prague later this year There's a bone church There is a bone church there It's very cool That's cool I've always wanted to go to the catacombs But I'm like that's haunted Go I'm gonna die No you'll be fine Just go with someone who knows How to get out Yeah like Linda Fiorentino Yeah Oh my god

1:36:54David Sims:Or Emily Deschanel That's probably the better choice

1:36:56Griffin Newman:Yes Yes And you can have some Will they will pay attention with her

1:37:00David Sims:That'll be fine She's great at that

1:37:01Griffin Newman:Right And you can deliver a pizza late

1:37:04David Sims:And she'd choose her gum really Like an exaggerated way Oh yeah right Yeah I'm not paying for that That's what she says Spider-Man 2 Did the kids like Spider-Man 2? Yeah Yeah. Nowadays, they like... Are you talking like the Tobey Maguire one? Yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah. The only Marvel movies I've seen are Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. I was obsessed with them. Yeah. I was obsessed with them as a kid. I had a beta fish named Peter Parker. This is my sister as well, basically tapped out on all superhero movies after the Raimi trilogy. I got her to see No Way Home because I spoiled for her. Like Tobey's in.

1:37:37David Sims:And that was the only thing in the world of superheroes that would possibly... That's the only thing that could get me back too. Yeah. When he has the tray and he catches all the shit on it. Oh, chills thinking about that. Those movies are so good. They're a lot of fun. Yeah. And every year they get better. This is the thing. The genre gets worse and the movies get better. Well,

1:37:53Griffin Newman:it's just like building up a callus. Like they punch it with a new movie and he's like, I'm only stronger.

1:37:58David Sims:Right. It's a martial artist who's broken all their fingers so that the punches are so fucking hard. So, okay.

1:38:04Griffin Newman:He exits this situation. He tries to take the subway. It's past midnight. The fare has gone up to 150. It just went up. It's so fucking funny. It's so good. So that's when he ends up at the John Heard bar, which I want to have the location of that one too. That is the Emerald Pub. Now closed, but it was on 308 Spring Street. Closed fairly recently? When did it close? What's there now? Yeah, I think it closed pretty recently because there's like a Yelp profile for it. I've been there. What's there now? I think nothing. Oh boy. Let's get something there. I stay walking on Spring Street. I mean, that's pretty close to like Eel Bar.

1:38:42Griffin Newman:I mean, sorry, not Eel Bar. Ear Inn. You know Ear Inn? Yes. I think so. That's one of the best like old school bars in New York. Oh, that place rules. Which is even further east and further west.

1:38:51David Sims:That's a bar that still feels a little after hours-y. It doesn't feel violent. I go there all the time. If anyone wants to stalk me, I go there for lunch a lot. That bar is like what he's looking for. Like in Paul's dreams, he finds Ear Inn and is able to just kind of fucking relax there for a bit.

1:39:06Griffin Newman:Okay. So yeah, he ends up at the bar with John Hurd, who I think is so well cast because John Hurd does have. He's a little scary. Yeah, exactly. He has the kind of blue collary energy of like, yeah, you know, I'm fucking Teddy. But right. He's just a little threatening. He was an intense guy. And he's like, well, yes. Yes. Yes. He was an intense guy. Yes. I think his reputation preceded him too. That's in the dossier.

1:39:26David Sims:A hundred percent. His career sort of, you know, he was one of the interesting young men leads. Right.

1:39:33Griffin Newman:Like Marty was basically when he was suggested was like, he's talented, but isn't he like fucking crazy?

1:39:39David Sims:It was less extreme than Eric Roberts, but a little bit parallel to that of like, this guy's good, but his life too short. And he's already at this point now, like maybe you have like three scenes. Right. And maybe the movie isn't pinned on you. And then, of course, being Kevin's dad becomes weirdly the like reputation washing thing that everyone remembers him for.

1:39:58Griffin Newman:But apparently Amy Robinson went to him and was like, Marty wants you to do this movie, but he's worried about you. And Hurd was like, I get it. He has nothing to worry about. And was fine. Got it. Okay. Behaved himself. But he was just like an intense, angry dude. Yes? I mean, yeah. I mean, just like a really intense dude. And so what do we think of John Hurd and so on and so forth in this movie After Hours that we're discussing today, guys?

1:40:24David Sims:I mean, it's just the stuff in this movie that could be so overplayed that is so elegantly done. And it does feel like this is the movie where Marty gets to flex a little Lubitsch stuff, who was obviously a big filmmaking hero of his. but just in the sort of timing and the elegant characterization. But the tightness of time between when John Heard makes a joke about someone committing suicide and then turning around and picking up the phone and getting the news that his girlfriend committed suicide and then having to reveal to Griffin Dunn accidentally that he is the boyfriend of Rosanna Arquette, like all of that folding in and all playing out across his face and being played totally straight.

1:41:03And it's so fucking funny.

1:41:04David Sims:It's so funny because the comedy is all just in the pacing of it. Yeah.

1:41:08Griffin Newman:The sort of video gamey 80s vibe of like, I can't open the cash register without these keys. So I'm going to give you these keys that are going to get you into my apartment so you can get the other keys. It's just like, there's no backups. Everything makes sense in this screenplay. Yeah. Even if it's this like ludicrous escalation of like, he can't fucking, as you're saying, he could always just walk home. Yeah. Surely he could just walk home, but like it's like no so you hold on to this so that I can take that and so I have to come back and get that from you you know like it's a lot of like Zelda-y and there's been the burglaries lately and he's a stranger in this building and he floods the toilet

1:41:46David Sims:I think there's the other thing factored into it which is there's the part of him that's like I did come down here for Rosanna Arquette I know I ran away panicked but do I leave without circle back there right do I need to score with someone else because I made the choice to leave my apartment at 11.30pm or do I ultimately give her another shot? I simply would never do it. If someone asked me to leave my apartment at 11.30, absolutely not. I'd be laughing.

1:42:13Griffin Newman:I love being home so much. Oh, I'm such a night owl. I would do that. Now? Even now? Yeah. At 11.30, I'm going to text you. What are you doing at 11.30? Going out and getting into trouble. Oh, yeah. No, I love when she's like, you want to go get a cup of coffee? And he's like, is anything open right now? It's like 12.31. He's such a loser. The Great Dick Miller. The Great Dick Miller. At the bar. Sorry, at the diner, which is, I want to look that one up too. The River Diner, which is gone, but it's like an old school classic, like rail car kind of diner.

1:42:44David Sims:I bet it's a TikTok house now. They got those fucking croissants there. Oh my God. The Succons. The what? They suck. Oh. You said those croissants suck. So now I've decided that's their trendy name. The Succons. You got to try this shitty croissant. It sucks so hard. We're workshopping that.

1:43:03Griffin Newman:Right. That actually wasn't in Soho, the River Diner. That was up by like kind of with the Javits, you know, like over by the water in the 30s or whatever. They used to call it called it like Diner Alley. There used to be so many of those kinds of diners over there. I assume for the, you know, guys who worked the ships or whatever. I don't know. It was 37th and 11th Avenue. Yeah. Really cool. It's one of those diners. Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. I know your favorite neighborhood in New York is the Hudson Yards. I love Hudson Yards and Hell's Kitchen

1:43:33David Sims:You love to go to the Vessel My favorite neighborhood is the basement of the Javits Center

1:43:37Griffin Newman:You love the Javits Center That's where your favorite place to eat Your favorite place to hang out and party Yes, I went out to dinner at 9pm last night I want to brag Where? Burger King You know Bartolo? What'd you get? You want to hear? We got these mushroom things We got the anchovies that are on the piece of toast with like a full rectangle of butter underneath them. Who'd you go with? Ellen and Rachel.

1:44:03David Sims:Well, well, well. Well, well, well. Must be nice.

1:44:08Griffin Newman:We got these like cod fritters. We got this like pea salad. We got a big old lamb rack of lamb. Wow. David, what are you doing? I'm sorry.

1:44:17David Sims:Sorry, that was on me. The record show. I just want people to see. I'm keeping things on rails today.

1:44:23Griffin Newman:I was done with dinner at 11. It's not just me. We're seeing in real time. It's not just me. I was done with dinner at 11. Congratulations. And I was like, oh my God, this is so late. The idea that after that I would go out, like that I would be like, all right, time for me to begin my night.

1:44:40David Sims:I would die. This is a genuine humble brag, but any time, it's not like it happens every week, but occasionally someone will invite me to an SNL after party. And I'm like, that sounds like a fucking nightmare. Horrifying. You mean I can't get there until 1 a.m.? I'm going to be awake, but I'm going to be awake in bed. watching the Larry Sanders show. That's my night. I went to SNL. Wow. On the weekend. In 2023 on the weekend, it was the same time as daylight savings. So not only did I get home at like 6 a.m., but it was like 7 now. It's horrible. I've never felt worse in my life.

1:45:16Griffin Newman:It's terrible. That does seem crazy to me. I mean, even watching SNL in my house when it's done, I'd be like, I'm tired. I'm too late. So tired. Yeah. So, okay. All right. What happens? He goes back to He confronts the thieves stealing the He gets kicked out of He goes to Herd's apartment, he floods it He gets kicked out by the suspicious neighbors Right? He ends up at Kiki's And the Cheech and Chong Are stealing the sculpture He chases them off And that's when he then comes across Roseanne Arquette dead A move that should stop this movie In its tracks That is so insanely dark

1:45:55David Sims:It should be too dark Right. And either the movie will falter because it can never recover from how upsetting that is or because it's too flippant about it. It just turns it into like weightless, ridiculous glip. Right, yeah.

1:46:07Griffin Newman:And instead, you're just like, that is, to me at least, that is the proper escalation of the nightmare this guy is in. Yes. Where it's like every social interaction is going wrong in weird ways. He's becoming an enemy of people kind of by mistake. Also, I mean, once again. And then it's like, oh, and by the way, the girl you wanted to hook up with, She is dead and you were the last person who saw her. And the guy with the leather is like, are you the guy? Like, that's fucked up what you did. Like, I heard all about it. We've been talking about you. You're a real asshole. If you're in a nightmare, like it's just what you, right?

1:46:38David Sims:Like you imagine this would happen to you. But it's also, it's once again, it's the 80s relationship between sex and death, you know? Sure. It happens in this accelerated way and he obviously never even sleeps with her. To me, it's more like sex, the relationship is sex and high fives. High five. That's what you want, ideally.

1:46:55Griffin Newman:That's your closer? Yeah, that's my closer. You know when you have sex and then you high five after.

1:47:00David Sims:Yeah.

1:47:01Griffin Newman:Fucking awesome. No, no, I think that's a great call. Like, yeah, it's the 80s. Like, no longer are we in a free love era. It's more just like, oh, you're horny? You might, like, end up dead. Yes. Or at least might end up with a dead body on your hands and, like, no subway fare.

1:47:13David Sims:Yeah. No, I think these are, like, very deliberate lines this movie's drawing. What other ways? I'm trying to think of other ways to escape Soho for him, apart from just walking. There are so many trains down there.

1:47:23Griffin Newman:That is so true. There are so many turns. Like, you gotta be able to hop one turnstile somewhere in Lower Manhattan. But it's like this dream state of, like, no. There's just a force field.

1:47:33David Sims:It's also, it's what's good about that scene is you buy that he wouldn't try it again because the timing is so catastrophically bad. It's too embarrassing. Happened to me all the way here, by the way. You tried to hop a turnstile? No, I got to the train right as it was, like, the doors were closing. And then I had to wait 17 minutes for a Brooklyn-bound train. Wait, what? Which train? The F? I had a 23 the other day I had a 30 30? Yeah A dirty 30? F at I don't even It was like midday Illegal

1:48:03Griffin Newman:Oh that's fucked up Come on It was like prime hours Zoran come on I fucking The other night Trying to get home From Manhattan Manhattan

1:48:12David Sims:After our screening We saw disclosure day Whoa But we can't disclose it yet Did you like it? Oh no we'll have seen it already It fucking rocks It fucking It is awesome Yeah It's so good So tender. Yeah. How long is it? How long is it? Two hours, 20. Gorgeous. Yeah.

1:48:27Griffin Newman:Yeah. Feels robust, but it moves. 220 is the longest a movie can be in my mind. Yeah. Three hours feels shorter than 220, but I think for a movie like that, I want it to be 220. It's not overstaying. No. It moves pretty. I don't know. Ben was a little shiftier than me, maybe. I can't remember. No, I like Alien. Alien, good. Sure. I live off the G train. Wasn't running. Had to walk home from the 7. How long did that take? 20 minutes. Yeah. What the fuck?

1:48:51David Sims:But you'll have moved by the time this episode comes out. God willing. Let's all dox ourselves at the end of this.

1:48:56Griffin Newman:Okay, let's all say our subway stops right now.

1:48:58David Sims:Right. Three, two, one.

1:49:00Griffin Newman:Mount Kisco. East Broadway. It's a great stop. Actually, a nightmare stop. It's actually the worst place on earth. Yeah. I mean, I... Well, trying to transfer to the 1 at 14th made me want to die. Don't do that. Can't even talk about... That is after hours.

1:49:14David Sims:Never do that. Transfer from L to 1. Yeah. That walk sucks. The tunnel. It's so fucking long.

1:49:20Griffin Newman:Well, because you're going from 6th to 7th Avenue.

1:49:23David Sims:I heard Richard Bachman got inspiration from doing that walk, if you catch my drift. The novel's called The Long Walk. It sucks. People die. Mark Hamill overacts.

1:49:35Griffin Newman:So Horst and Linda Florentine leave to go to Berlin. Yeah. They leave a note. He's discovered the body. So what does he do? He calls 911, and then he puts up his own signs.

1:49:47David Sims:He puts up six signs with arrows pointing to dead body. It's so fucked up but funny. It's really funny. Yeah. But it's also one of these things where it's like, he's not responsible. He's not discovered with the body, but he also knows that they saw him there. This is clearly a troubled person, but this is where you just start the hell spiral in the movie, where everything after this point starts to feel hallucinatory because he just can't even imagine, like, is this my last night as a free man? How does this catch up to me? This is the perfect movie for someone who walks around thinking everyone's mad at them all the time.

1:50:24Like this is, are you mad at me cinema? Yes. It's perfect.

1:50:27David Sims:Right. Are you dead at me? Yeah. Yeah. Don't die on me, please. That's the meanest thing you could do is die next to me. Am I about to kill you? Yeah. Right. So good.

1:50:36Griffin Newman:Club Berlin Real, right? Or no? Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. There's that bar Berlin. There is. That's a different place. Yeah, maybe it's made up. I don't know. I was wondering that. It looked out of place. It does. It didn't look like anywhere in Lower Manhattan. Yeah. I like that you need a mohawk to get in there, basically. Really good. Yeah. Ben, would you shave your head into a mohawk? I never did.

1:50:58David Sims:I never did in my punk days. You got a little Tintin flip going on today, which is kind of, it's Belgian punk. Now it's going down, but earlier you had it a little flipped. Did you ever go to Warped Tour? No. Wow. Okay.

1:51:13Griffin Newman:No. Okay. I missed out. Yeah, same. Never? No. I was like 10. Okay. Is this still happening? We all were. Yeah, we were six years old. Returned in 2025 for its 30th anniversary, but I think that may have been a one-off. Oh, no. It's coming back. You should go. I don't know if that's my scene. Orlando? You don't want to be in Orlando? Oh, God, I love Orlando.

1:51:48David.

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1:52:36Griffin Newman:Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show.

1:52:49Griffin Newman:Yeah, this is when Catherine O 'Hara enters, right? No, the girl with the beehive. Yeah, Terry Gar.

1:52:56David Sims:He goes the second time. We did it out of order because he... I think we've done it out of order. She dies and then he goes to get his keys and then that's when the guy finds out that his ex-girlfriend died and that's how he finds out that he just killed... Right.

1:53:09Griffin Newman:That's who that is. But right now, but doesn't he first have Catherine O 'Hara and then he tries to get into Club Berlin? No, because he meets Catherine O 'Hara after. There's sort of two Catherine O 'Hara chunks, right? Yes. He's with her and then he comes back to her. Griffin? Yes. What are you doing?

1:53:27David Sims:Are you trying to find this? No, I ordered the bagel paperweight.

1:53:29Griffin Newman:For all your papers? Yeah. I'm going to get some. Yeah, he goes to Berlin, gets his head shaved. Marty's there. Marty's there, Martin Scorsese, as the searchlight operator. and then no I'm just I just I love him on camera it's great he gets he tries to hail the same cab right

1:53:52David Sims:from the beginning

1:53:53Griffin Newman:of the movie

1:53:53David Sims:that he was unable to pay and he's like look I got I got the$20 now right and the guy's like yeah you owe me$20 you got$0

1:54:02Griffin Newman:and Catherine O 'Hara opens the door really quickly hits him in his arm he's got a bloody arm she offers to bandage it up

1:54:09David Sims:we should call out right she's the woman getting out of the cab but we should call out you mentioned Dick Miller but he's the second kindly the nice diner waiter who introduces the title of the film who says after hours which is he's right he's like this time of night yeah you're in a parallel world it feels so good you're after hours

1:54:26Griffin Newman:and it's just what a punim he's got you know him just basically looking right down the camera and delivering the thesis of the movie you're just like do that in every way David we do Dante you're gonna get that

1:54:37David Sims:every fucking week that's not when he enters though after Captain No, because he's earlier. He's with Rosanna. He's with Rosanna. She's talking about her husband loving the Wizard of Oz. I just wanted to make that connection. Because also, he introduces the title. He gives her the$20. Is it that he would say Surrender Dorothy after he came? Would that be a deal breaker for you? No.

1:54:56Griffin Newman:Whatever. I think after a while, I'd be like, every time? Every time?

1:55:00David Sims:It's getting annoying. Yeah. I'd rather they do the... I'd rather they do Shoe Dog. From Wicked? Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah?

1:55:15Griffin Newman:Ben, you want to try one? I just need them to wear like a printout of hot Scarecrow's face. What a good face. Talking about good

1:55:26David Sims:skin on film. Just give me that kind of hay face. I mean, the only hotter man is Bach. Metal Bach. Tin Bach? Oh yeah, right. Tin Man Bach. Yeah, Tin Bach.

1:55:38Griffin Newman:Yeah, what a good movie. Timbuk. Wow. Did you see the Wicked? I saw Wicked 1. Yeah. And I said, that's enough. That's called making the right call. That's called protecting yourself. Yeah. That's called, yep, that's just smart, smart, smart. Yep, because my reaction after Wicked 2, as Griffin can tell everyone, was, whoa, we had Wicked 1. We all had Wicked 1. I watched Wicked 1 and I was like, if there are generously two good songs in this, I don't think two needs to be part of my journey. Yes. No, no. And it never will be. All love to the cast. They're very talented. But truly movies that are already forgotten because of how bad two was, I feel.

1:56:13Griffin Newman:Kind of. You know what I mean? Came and went. If two had like somehow nailed the landing, people would be like, man, Wicked, remember that? Like blew up the box office. And Ariana like got COVID during the press tour. It was just like weird. Cursed vibes. What's Ariana doing? She just released a song. Fucker in law. Yeah. That's right. I was like, I know she's in a movie. She has a new song out today. What's your song about? Um, I don't know what it's called. I haven't looked yet. It's called... Kate that I made you love me. Okay, so Catherine O 'Hara drives an ice cream truck. She offers to give him a ride.

1:56:47Griffin Newman:I mean, who's cooler than her? She drives an ice cream truck. That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. It is cool. I mean, I'm still like, Fiorentino's the number one lady I'm chasing in this movie, but she'll kill me. Too scary. I'll be dead. Yes.

1:56:58David Sims:That's like one of those spiders that eats the man after. Catherine O 'Hara has access to nearly unlimited ice cream. She looks awesome. She's got a strong moral code. Now I will say. She's good at arts and crafts. She has a whistle. She makes a fire fast.

1:57:12Griffin Newman:Right. It would piss me off if she did the thing where she said numbers while I was trying to write down a phone number. That's so fucking funny. That's very triggering and annoying.

1:57:19David Sims:That is as much of a Griff bit as I have ever seen committed to film. It's so annoying.

1:57:25Griffin Newman:In the movie, you're just like, even in the movie, even though you're annoyed with Griff and you're like, shut the fuck up. Stop it.

1:57:30David Sims:I would never do a bit that annoying, but I respect the craft of it. It's an incredibly. I would do it on a stranger. it's so funny it's so funny that he the first time he's like I do have to admit that's clever that's funny okay but now for real here I go dialing the phone and then she does it again

1:57:48Griffin Newman:and of course sadly no one knows anyone's number anymore because that's just not part of life no I just need to correct you Catherine O 'Hara's character doesn't make the flyer oh Terry Gard makes the flyer the woman with the like kind of 60s like beehive yeah the Catherine O 'Hara does end up posting them as well

1:58:07David Sims:the flyer. Everyone's posting the flyer. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right.

1:58:11Griffin Newman:Again, it kind of contributes to this feeling of like Soho is this kind of force field, like locked box. They all know each other. They all know each other. They're all spreading stories around each other. Yeah, they all play a very specific role. She has like unlimited access to a printing thing. Right, that's open all night. She's just not going to escape. It's like he's intruded on some like medieval village. It's like children at the corner. Right, he like stepped on some like statue and it's broken. Now they're all basically like, are you the one who broke the statue? Like you have the curse.

1:58:42David Sims:It's also such a good move. It's such like a simple, deceptively simple, elegant thing. But on both car rides, him going down in the cab and going back up in the back of Cheech and Chong's van, the thing of the kind of like whip pan street signs. Yeah. The feeling of what it does feel like, not to be a bunch of fucking New York people in a room talking about New York, but when you just take a cab and you're zooming down or up one avenue in Manhattan, you're hitting the lights. Click, click, click. And it feels like you're going so far and you're like, we've gone 20 blocks. It's not, this is a very compact city.

1:59:20David Sims:Right. But yet sometimes you're like, oh my God, that neighborhood's so far away. And you're like, nothing's like more than an hour away. True. Yeah. I went to Brighton Beach yesterday for lunch.

1:59:30Griffin Newman:Got on the beach train. I was there in 10 minutes. Just explain to us that you haven't been to the beach yet this year. Well, I didn't get to, like, actually touch the beach. Did you go to Anora's house? I did not go to Anora's house. You fucked with the camera. Did you guys hang out? The really cool, like, you know, giant Russian mobster house. No, I didn't go there. I went to Rendoza's Clan Park, the greatest, if anyone knows it. No? Okay. Well. It was awesome. So he's being chased by a mob. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he, it's the moment then that you started the episode off with where he's, like, He's screaming to the heavens.

2:00:04Griffin Newman:He's really, he's right. He's asking for celestial intervention at this point.

2:00:09David Sims:And they've become like the villagers from Frankenstein. Yes. Right. That's what I'm saying.

2:00:12Griffin Newman:It's truly like a pissed off village. Yes. So then he goes. He gets into Berlin, which is now like empty. Well, no, I was going to say, actually he has the interaction with the guy who's cruising. Right. Right. And he ends up just weirdly asking him to go, like, can I go to your apartment? He's looking for safety. And I think he's also like,

2:00:31David Sims:Like every time I follow a woman home, things get complicated. Right. Can I just find a boring guy? And this guy thinks that he's a gigolo.

2:00:40Griffin Newman:But it does one of my favorite things, which is when someone's telling a really long story and they keep cutting just at different moments.

2:00:48David Sims:He does it so elegantly, too, where at first you think your brain is like fucking up. It's like this very, very subtle kind of like audio crossfade. Yeah. It's also one of the beautiful moments, like one of the beautiful examples of telling someone a story that you think is so crazy and like your life has been just so overwhelming and they're just staring at you blankly because it like truly doesn't matter at all. This is boring and all I'm thinking about is do I want to have sex with you or not? I don't care about your life. Right. Yeah.

2:01:17Griffin Newman:He gets to Berlin. I personally would go home and fuck the guy. That's what you would do. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Like, you know, it's just maybe that is the reason. But are you even in the mood at that point? Well, that's a good question. I'm probably just need to take a nap. But then. It's what? 4 a.m. now? Could you maybe like find a sex worker who does naps? Where you're just kind of like, hey. Does naps in what sense? Yeah. Let's pack this date. I just need to take a nap. Like, hey, can you tuck me in? Right. Like, do you have a space where I could just like, we don't need to do anything. I just need a nap.

2:01:47So you're looking for a landlord.

2:01:48Griffin Newman:What is the sex worker for? They might have a space you could use, you know, like a bed. Like a hotel. Right, right. You know. Yeah. An area. But I'm just like, hey, would love to hang out. Just nap, though. Nap only. Just nap. Right.

2:02:02David Sims:The great Verna Bloom, who was responsible, partially responsible, we talked about in the Mean Streets episode. Right. For getting Mean Streets made. Yes. She obviously was married to Jay Cox.

2:02:14Griffin Newman:The is still married to him. Yeah. Well, she died, but, you know, was married to him her entire life.

2:02:19David Sims:Was also married to Dean Wormser, who placed Delta House on Double Secret Probation.

2:02:24Griffin Newman:Richard Collier? She plays a very similar role in Animal House.

2:02:28David Sims:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:02:29Griffin Newman:Right, right, right.

2:02:29David Sims:As, yes, the world's sexiest older lady to dumb young guys.

2:02:33Griffin Newman:She, I feel like, like, kind of stopped acting, right? After Animal House. Like, she's only in two movies in between Animal House and this. What movies? What are the two? The Clint Eastwood film Honky Tonk Man. one of his most forgotten movies, but a pretty good one. I've not seen that. Which is sort of the start of Clint being like, what the fuck? I had no idea.

2:02:57David Sims:I think that was, I think that was, no, you know what that was? That was my alert that I can't eat anymore because I'm getting a fucking dental implant put in today. Oh. That's why I don't accidentally put anything in my mouth. When's it happening? It's happening, oh no, you know what? That alert was, I have 15 minutes before I can stop drinking liquid.

2:03:17Griffin Newman:Dang.

2:03:17David Sims:Yeah it's happening in like two and a half hours Just making sure you're not Are you going under? I think I'm going to be what my father calls the Conrad Murray

2:03:26Griffin Newman:Kind of in and out? That's the Michael Jackson

2:03:29David Sims:But he goes doctor's appointment Are they going to do the Dr. Conrad Murray to you? This is how my father talks Love that

2:03:36Griffin Newman:She's also in a film called The Journey of Natty Genn Which is like a Disney adventure movie She has a tiny role in that

2:03:42David Sims:She plays Mary in Last Temptation obviously Is it live action?

2:03:45Griffin Newman:It is And that's her last movie. Last Temptation, which she plays Jesus' mom, Mary. Heard of her?

2:03:52David Sims:The original badass mama. And then, right.

2:03:58Griffin Newman:The original virgin influencer.

2:03:59David Sims:Her only credit after that is a fucking Animal House special feature where everyone reprised their characters and did a where are they now thing.

2:04:06Griffin Newman:Right.

2:04:06David Sims:So basically, these are her last two films.

2:04:08Griffin Newman:But she's so goddamn... I mean, this, like, it's just what the movie needs. Yes. Like, after all this pressure and madness just to like dance to Is That All There Is? Just the total kind of like meditative, weird, still dreamy.

2:04:22David Sims:And Marty hasn't been doing the needle drops as much in this film. It feels big to have, you know, the score's very heavy in this film. Howard Shore. I love the score. Wonderful score.

2:04:31Griffin Newman:I really love Shore's collaborations with Marty because I feel like, you know, and we've talked about this with Howard Shore a little bit, like before he became the Lord of the Rings guy, he was the weird, you know, atonal music guy. David Cronenberg and Marty and stuff.

2:04:46David Sims:If you just go highlights of his career, he was the original music director on Saturday Night Live. Right. Really? He becomes David Cronenberg and Martin Scorsese's go-to guys and then soundtracks the Lord of the Rings films. It's so wild.

2:05:01Griffin Newman:What's wild is that Jackson tapped him. Yes. That Jackson was like, I think you have that in you.

2:05:05David Sims:Because Jackson comes from a kind of Cronenberg-y space originally. Right. But I remember reading live from New York and being like, That's funny that there's another guy in music named Howard Shore. Surely that can't be the same person.

2:05:19Griffin Newman:He's a king. No, the score's so good. But yes, okay. Is that all there is? It's great. David. What?

2:05:25David Sims:The voice of a songbird.

2:05:27Griffin Newman:I sure don't. I'm crying right now. I didn't know. I cannot hold a tune. I like her. I just feel about chain link fence in the room here. No. It's just like a... Okay. I don't care for a chain link fence. Why? Are you trying to get into chain link fences, Ben? Because they're chain adjacent. It's a good look.

2:05:44David Sims:Wait a second.

2:05:45Griffin Newman:Yes.

2:05:46David Sims:I think it's sort of famously considered not a good look. David, I just noticed our closet doors open. There's a bunch of chain link in there.

2:05:53Griffin Newman:Ben bought big. Chain link fences are kind of like, hey, do you want your kind of maybe your yard to look a little threatening, but also for it to possibly it would hurt you if you touched it?

2:06:03David Sims:Like chain link fences. What if we found out that Ben was asking us because he like bought chain link futures? he was like coffee's going down chain links going up i mean yeah we're heading towards the police state so this is true i was gonna say i don't like outdoor things indoors and then i remember we're recording in a studio with a porch inside can we call out yeah soon to be guests next week's episode chris ryan right when before the episode we always try to take the photo before the episode so we don't forget sure um because this episode podcast is usually really short and people leave bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, full of energy.

2:06:40Griffin Newman:Yeah, when we wrap up, we're like, let's hang out a little longer.

2:06:42David Sims:And we definitely don't look like

2:06:43Griffin Newman:we just got hit in the face. Truly.

2:06:46David Sims:We had a friend come visit at the end of a record the other day, and I had to apologize for it. It's like he walked into a room where four men had just had exorcisms before they met.

2:06:55Griffin Newman:And I hadn't seen Sam in a while, and I was just like, hey, Sam. The great Sam Rogal. Yeah.

2:06:59David Sims:Like, I wasn't like, Sam! I was just like, Sam, it's nice to see you. I don't know what words are anymore. But Chris Ryan, we were like, we got to take the picture. and he was like, oh, okay, so we have to go outside. And we were like, that's what I thought too. I was saying that. Wait, really? That's the porch? Oh, shit. Ben's always in his head about the effectiveness of the porch and everyone's buying that it's real. No, I was like, what are they like taking the train somewhere, like going on a trip after they record?

2:07:23Griffin Newman:It would be so funny if I hadn't told you that and then sprang it on you. Like a beach check? Like you had beached it. Yeah, we're going to the beach. Like they got rock away. Maybe blank check does need a beach check. Make a day of it. Maybe that's our next move. Blank check, beach check. I'm down Blank check beat Shaq Blank check beat Shaq That would be fire Thank you And this is a fire pod

2:07:45David Sims:It would be Iron Chef

2:07:49Griffin Newman:He's in Club Berlin They have a dance They come to find him They come to find him And so she does the only thing you can do You gotta paper mache his ass Do you remember how everyone was getting slimed In the 90s Of course. That was just a huge part of the night. It was an epidemic.

2:08:06David Sims:And that's another thing, by the way, this movie's about the AIDS panic and it's about the slime panic. But I mean, it's like, that's how we used to confront adults and make them pay for their sin. Dump slime on them. Well, they would try to tell us that we couldn't do that on television. Right. And we would say, I'm actually going to slime your ass. We would say it's slime time. Right. Yes. And then we would prove that we had guts by climbing the aggro crag. What else did we do? Our biggest movie stars would make a peace offering, say, I will be in family comedies. I'm willing to appeal to you, the children of America.

2:08:33David Sims:Eat slime. Slime time. They should bring slime to the Oscars. Oh, that'd be a good idea. Like the winner gets the Oscar and the other four nominees are slimed. In their seats. Claire has been doing a great job, but what if Rosie O'Donnell hosts the Oscars and everyone gets slimed?

2:08:48Griffin Newman:Was she at the forefront of sliming for when she was... I remember I didn't live in America at the time. She was like the Billy Crystal of the kids' choices. Yeah, speak on this. You never talk about that.

2:08:57David Sims:Allie, don't you think you can walk into my house? She was pretty inextricably tied to sliming because she was often adjacent to the biggest slimes of the year. Right, right, right. But was she like pushing the plunger?

2:09:09Griffin Newman:Didn't mix it up. Who's the Double Dare? What's the Double Dare guy's name? Mark Summers? Yeah, him. Did slime cross the pond? Like, were you aware of slime? Yeah, there was some sliming. What do they call it there? Goo. Goo. Custard. You got a bit of goo on you. They call it goo with a U. No, this is actually an interesting question because I do think it was more American, but it was a little bit of the sliming, I think. But it was so what I thought of with like an American game show in the 90s or whatever.

2:09:35David Sims:In England, they just throw like blood pudding at someone. A blood pudding. Oh, God. That's delicious. Yeah, where's the U? B-L-O-U-D. O-U-D. Blood pudding. B-O-D-D-I-N-G.

2:09:53Griffin Newman:Poding.

2:09:54David Sims:Poding.

2:09:54Griffin Newman:Okay, so he has slimed. He has to hide.

2:09:57David Sims:Yeah. Right? He's plastered up.

2:10:00Griffin Newman:He's turned into a statue.

2:10:01David Sims:And then Chi-Chi and Chong steal him. He goes back uptown and they throw him out the fucking back of a van. The first time you see this movie

2:10:07Griffin Newman:as that's unfolding, because, you know, as that all there is is the end of the movie, kind of. Emotionally. Emotionally, right.

2:10:13David Sims:It's like he's tired of younger women and he's sort of like, do I need a mama instead?

2:10:18Griffin Newman:And she's like, sure, baby, come here. Anyway, now you're a statue. Right. You know, I feel like there's so many readings. Anyone could, like, anyone could kind of just, like, academically take a swing at this movie and put almost any reading on it. It's got so much heavy symbolism. Yeah. You could really have your fun with it. You know what I mean?

2:10:34David Sims:Yeah, I was going through some queer readings because I was curious if other people have written about this kind of AIDS panic thing. And I do think it's a little pointed that the end of this movie is being like, and you get safely returned to your high-paying job. Yeah, you're a boy. And you don't have to deal with this shit anymore. Yeah. These people live in this world and you don't. That was a dalliance for you. It was a night that was scary. And now you're just back in its daylight. you're in the MetLife building. Those beautiful fucking gates.

2:11:01Griffin Newman:And the robbers get away too. They do. They do. God bless. They're unkillable. To have been the one stealing everything. Yeah, they're up in spot. It's Mozart, not Beethoven is the music, by the way. It's not the AT major. Yeah. Sorry. I'm embarrassed. But at the same time. You should also shout out Bad Brains, that hardcore, that's the punk band that's playing at Niagara, the song, Hey to Come. There you go.

2:11:25David Sims:I just... Surrender to Arthur. I love this movie so much and it's what we were saying I can't come unless

2:11:31Griffin Newman:there's a shark biting my dick another after hours

2:11:34David Sims:that's why you married Bruce the shark that would be a good tramp stamp

2:11:37Griffin Newman:yeah I'm gonna right I'll get that I'll get the shark I'm just gonna get it put on my body like a sash it'll go diagonally down

2:11:44David Sims:Ali you said tramp stamp and David started gesturing towards the back of his shoulders

2:11:48Griffin Newman:I was like but then I went it can mean anything to anyone yeah um I also I think it's you know I agree with what you said, Griffin, but it is also the thing of like, that was your moment of fun and freedom. Not fun, but like, you experienced a more exciting world, you're back in the mousetrap. You don't want it.

2:12:08David Sims:Yeah, exactly.

2:12:09Griffin Newman:Right. But also, like,

2:12:10David Sims:these are the people who start to erase those things from New York.

2:12:13Griffin Newman:Like, look around you. Rowan Atkinson is there. John Cleese. You're in the rat race. Oh. Cuba Gooding Jr. Breckin Meyer. You want us something? Whoopee. You want us something interesting? Alibuzmo's wanted?

2:12:26David Sims:Is he in that one?

2:12:27Griffin Newman:I think so. Wait. No, he's not in Rat Race. Jamie Kennedy.

2:12:32David Sims:Cheech is in... Who are you saying is in Malibu? Jamie Kennedy. Jamie Kennedy.

2:12:36Griffin Newman:He's saying Jamie Kennedy is in Rat Race.

2:12:37David Sims:Oh, Jamie Kennedy is not in Rat Race. Who's the other guy? It's Breckin Meyer, and the other guy's name is like Vince Velofe.

2:12:42Griffin Newman:That's right.

2:12:43David Sims:This is the thing I was going to tell you, because it's similar to Cheech and Chong being in this movie, that Cheech and Chong could be ported over as a comedy duo to things outside of their series. So that duo is Seth Green as the scheming... scheming. Yeah, I've seen Mattermouth. I got, I got Sedge Green and And then Vince Falouf is his brother who just had a tongue piercing and he can't talk because his tongue is swollen.

2:13:04Griffin Newman:I talk like this, right, yeah,

2:13:05David Sims:because it's all swollen. Our buddy, friend of the show, past and future guest, Kevin Smith, recently revealed on a podcast that that was written for Jay and Silent Bob.

2:13:12Griffin Newman:Oh. That it was straight offered to them that in the sort of And that would be why Silent Bob can't talk.

2:13:18David Sims:Yes. Yeah. Well, in the Mad Mad World construction of the movie, they were like, do we port over people's personas? Do we need a pre-existing comedy duo. Right. And so it was written to literally be the two of them doing that. And obviously, Bob was going to be silent. And then when they changed it, they were like, what's the reason that one of the brothers wouldn't talk? Oh, sure. Fascinating to consider. Yeah.

2:13:41Griffin Newman:Have you seen Rat Race?

2:13:43David Sims:That's not one to be embarrassed about. It's the second best movie to use Smash Mouth's all-star in the year 2001. That's right. That's right. Big year for Smash Mouth. Huge year for them. Of course, Shrek. Right. I'm familiar. Because in 99, it's in Inspector Gadget and Mystery Man. 2000, they take a year off. Yeah. 2001, it's in Shrek and it's in Rat Race.

2:14:05Griffin Newman:I love the Japanese poster of Rat Race where they have an extra picture of Rowan Atkinson to really underline like, FYI, Mr. Bean in this one. Okay. So this film was released on just one screen on September 13, 1985. expanded, you know, slowly enough, made it up to like ninth place. It grossed$10 million, so it's double the budget. But, you know, was not the breakout hit they hoped for. They thought it was going to be a crazy indie breakout

2:14:34David Sims:rather than a solid little indie success.

2:14:36Griffin Newman:Ebert loved it, called it the work of a master filmmaker. Four stars right out the gate.

2:14:41David Sims:Yes. Beautiful.

2:14:42Griffin Newman:Pauline Kael was like, I'm super chill and I think everything's fine. Just kidding. She was really, really insane about this movie. She's in her late 80s, 1980s kind of like crazy mode. I would say Pauline Cale gets really, really sort of persnickety in her later years. But she really hates it. It plays in competition at Cannes. Apparently Gaddafi that year Libyan leader Gaddafi had threatened to blow up Cannes. That's the opposite of winning the Palme d 'Or. He did not win the Palme d 'Or. No, so Marty didn't go. Wow. Only Dunn and Michael Ballhaus went. And apparently Sylvester Stallone didn't go.

2:15:28Griffin Newman:And so the French press called Griffin Dunn the bravest American because he was the only American actor who went. The Palme d 'Or went to The Mission, one of the worst Palme d 'Or winners, in my opinion. Not a very good movie.

2:15:39David Sims:Forgot to mention, one of the best techniques that Scrutese used in this movie is that he had a box full of shattered glass that he would have a PA hold. Yeah, Hayden Christensen, baby Hayden Christensen was in a basket. No, he had a box full of shattered glass pieces and he had like a PA would stand next to him and at certain times he'd like point and the kid would drop the glass to try to get a natural reaction out of Griffin Dunn. And he'd be like, don't, stay straight, you know? But then he would just do this loud disorienting noise. You can see it very much in a moment where he walks into the Werner Blum, the emptied out Berlin at the end.

2:16:20David Sims:But there's all these things. We mentioned the sex strike, the vow of celibacy that was forced on him. There's also like a lot of making him like run around the block. You know, he would, I think the same thing happens walking into Berlin where it's like, on action, you run around the block, the camera's going to be rolling and the scene doesn't start until you've done the entire circumference and entered into the frame. He just did a lot of stuff to like throw him off. because you know it's like don't play comedy stressed. How do I actually create a little bit a sense of true mania and disorientation in this guy who's usually very smooth.

2:16:58It's like in that part of Boogie Nights where they're lighting off the Yeah. The fireworks.

2:17:02David Sims:The heart crackers. It's making everyone It's also like that part in Boogie Nights where the penis is really large. Yeah. Yeah.

2:17:09Griffin Newman:This film came out September 15th, 13th, 1985. Griffin. Never forget. So whatever. Number one in the box office biggest movie of 85. We've covered it on the podcast. It would be Beverly Hills Cop?

2:17:20David Sims:Nope. Fuck. It was a late 84 release of December 84 and 85. The biggest film which we covered sci-fi is a sci-fi movie. It's a sci-fi adventure sort of? Yeah. Yeah, what do you want from me? Is it Spielberg? No. 86 is Aliens. True. 80, True Lies is Cameron.

2:17:44Griffin Newman:That's also 1994.

2:17:46David Sims:Yeah. Um, it's not Spielberg and it's not Lucas. No, but it's one of their pals. It's one of their pals who we covered. In the pandemic. Heard of it? In the pandemic. It's called Back to the Future. Back to the Future. Back to the Future. So it's been out for like two, three months at this point. Yep. What's it up to? 145 mil. It's going to get to 250, 260.

2:18:11Griffin Newman:I know. It's going to go 225. Pretty high. Pretty high for way back in the day. Yep. Number two at the box office is another film starring the star of Back to the Future. It's called Teen Wolf. Right. He shot it first.

2:18:26David Sims:It got the box office bloomed. Michael J. Fox is one and two at the box office. He was the king for a little bit. He's a good actor. And I think he wins the Emmy this year as well. For what? For Family Ties. But they were like, you're a movie star. You finally get to win the Emmy. Right. That's a reverse McConaughey. It happened to Helen Hunt. Sort of happened to McConaughey, though.

2:18:44Griffin Newman:I know what you mean. where it's like he won for True Detective True Detective he should have won for True Detective but he won oh you're right no he won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club

2:18:52David Sims:exactly like two months after True Detective premiere but Helen Hunt I think wins for Mad About You the year they give her the Oscar and a similar kind she won a lot of Emmys

2:19:02Griffin Newman:yes and deserved them all yeah and she also won my award for Hottest Lady Dallas Buyers Club I saw on my first date with my wife wow I love to bring that up it's the funniest that is a heavy first If you're looking for a hot tip. As I've said it before, but first scene, he's having wild, unprotected sex. Second scene, you have AIDS. Look,

2:19:23David Sims:if you want to get married, all you do is find the person who lights up your heart and take them to one of those countless rep screenings of Dallas Buyers Club. Dallas Buyers Club. It's playing at the Roxy every other night. There'd be a great double feature with After Hours. So who beat McConaughey? For the Emmy?

2:19:39Griffin Newman:Yeah, because I do remember him losing because True Detective hype got so crazy that I feel like there was a mild backlash. They also, they ran it in miniseries. But it was so deserved. He's so fucking good in True Detective. He's the best. They ran it in miniseries, right? I believe so. No, I don't think. No? I don't think. No, they didn't. They ran it in drama series. That was their mistake. Because that was season one. I don't think they knew it would be anthology.

2:19:59David Sims:Who'd they run? Who beat them? Bryan Cranston in Breaking Bad. That was a really good year. Probably the third or fourth time. Yeah. Yeah.

2:20:06Griffin Newman:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a really good year. Jeff Daniels is nominated for the newsroom. Yeah. You know?

2:20:13Griffin Newman:Spacey for House of Cards.

2:20:14David Sims:This is a good year. Classic. And Jon Hamm. He's very good in Dallas Buyers Club, but he absolutely won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club and True Detective coming out so close together. And Interstellar came out that year, too. Yeah, which is his actual best performance. For my money, that's his best performance ever.

2:20:30Griffin Newman:Number three at the box office is a film we discussed on this very episode directed by a guy who is considered for directing this film. It's called Pee-wee's Big Adventure. That's correct. So it's in the box office That was three at the box office Number three, it's been out for quite a while It has made 40 It's made 30 on its way to$40 million It's doing well Number four at the box office Is a drama Sort of like a This is a film I don't know Like a sort of true crimey kind of drama It's based on a novel So not true crime Gone girl It's kind of gone girly it sounds like It's about a Long Island housewife and former journalist who becomes involved in a murder investigation.

2:21:14David Sims:It's not like The Morning After. No. But it's something like that. Yeah, sure. Does it have that kind of vibe? Is it like two stars?

2:21:22Griffin Newman:Yeah, it's one big star. Okay. And one of my favorite actors. I've never seen it. I've never really heard of it. It's from director Frank Perry. It's one of my favorite actors. Is it Bacon? A slab of bacon on this bad boy? No, I love him, though. Is it a Bridges? No, it's a less... I may be throwing you with one of my favorite.

2:21:41David Sims:Oh, it's a Colin Farrell movie.

2:21:42Griffin Newman:Yeah, he was around in the 80s.

2:21:44David Sims:1985.

2:21:45Griffin Newman:Look, you're not going to know it, but I'll tell you that the star is Susan Sarandon, and then my favorite actor is who I'm referring to as Raul Julia. Oh, this is, what's it called? Called Compromising Positions. Yeah, there we go. Anyone seen it? No. Paul and Kale liked this one, apparently. Oh, good. Number five at the box office is a film that I am Googling to triple check that it is a comedy. Yes, it is. Big star. Okay. Two big stars. All right. Big guy who will become big actor is still in the comedy lane. Mm-hmm. Is one of the stars. The other star, comedy legend. Nothing in common. No, but you're in the right ballpark.

2:22:28David Sims:Fuck. Okay. So it's like that. It's like a Hanks and a Gleason. It's a Hanks and a someone. It's a Hanks and a someone. Is it Dragnet? No. The movie that inspired the Dragnet rap. It's a different Hanks. It's not Money Pit. No. Because you said the second person's more kind of legendary elder statesman. Comedy person.

2:22:48Griffin Newman:No, I didn't say it. I didn't say it. I just said the legendary comedy person. Okay. This, I think this is where Tom Hanks meets Rita Wilson. Oh, this is Volunteers? Volunteers. Volunteers. And who is the comedy star I refer to? John Candy. John Candy. Yeah. This is a Nicholas Meyer movie. I've never seen it. Never seen it either. I don't know what it's about.

2:23:08David Sims:I would guess it's about volunteers. Okay. I always get volunteers in Great Outdoors confused because Great Outdoors is Annette Bening's debut film. And this is, if not Rita Wilson's debut, obviously her breakout.

2:23:22Griffin Newman:I don't know. They're like building a bridge. There's like monkeys. I have no idea what's going on. Rita Wilson's showing midriff on the poster. Yeah. Hello. Yeah. Like Tom Hanks is like spoiled rich kid. John Candy is probably more salt of the earth.

2:23:37David Sims:It is really funny to look at the 80s Hanks and be like, no one would have bet money on this guy owning the 90s.

2:23:45Griffin Newman:And just becoming America's like elder statesman. Everything.

2:23:49David Sims:Yeah.

2:23:49Griffin Newman:Number six at the box office is Cocoon. Mm-hmm. You know that one? I haven't seen it, but I'm familiar. You know what?

2:23:55David Sims:This is a generational thing. Yeah. Cocoon has famously been out of circulation for like a decade. Our friend Matt Patches did an article about it. It is not streamable anywhere. The DVD, Blu-ray, out of print. I feel like it was a real cable TV movie. But it's one of those films that was just a humongous fucking hit that won two Academy Awards, three, and now just kind of doesn't exist. Do you know the premise of Cocoon? I couldn't tell you. There's an old folks home and aliens land in the swimming pool and the swimming pool makes them young. That sounds fucking awesome. It's like the beach that makes you old.

2:24:30David Sims:They still look old, but they can do young person stuff. So it's a bunch of like legendary old actors doing dances and shit. Don Ameche won an Oscar. He's upset that I'm talking about Cocoon.

2:24:42Griffin Newman:Number seven is the Michael Chimina movie, Year of the Dragon, which is totally not racist at all. Good. Number eight is American Ninja. I bet you that one's not racist.

2:24:50David Sims:What is that one?

2:24:50Griffin Newman:Good.

2:24:51David Sims:It's exactly what it sounds like. Oh, yeah? Promise the premise.

2:24:55Griffin Newman:Why am I not? I think it's a canon film. The problem is American Ninja Warrior Is really fucking with me here Yeah it's Yo Ham Globus Okay whatever Michael Judikoff Number 9 is Rambo First Blood Part 2 Rambo First Blood Part 2 Yeah It's silly fun Number 10 is the Interesting commercial failure Lawrence Kasim movie Silverado Yeah fun movie

2:25:24David Sims:That is the 10 Okay Allie do you have anything to plug You're not on social media are you I am I've been sitting on that joke for two hours and 24 minutes If you google bald and out You will find me I'll be back on Instagram I deactivated I need a week to cleanse my brain

2:25:43Griffin Newman:Of course you're doing great My glasses fell in the toilet this week They got flushed because it was auto flush Had to drop a lot of money

2:25:52David Sims:Let's get auto flush out of here And I say this as someone who spends too much time on toilets. You need to be doing that yourself. You need to have control of the timing. Yeah, because it never flushes when you need it. Nope. Never. Not once. That's what the toilet overflowing in after hours felt very... Griffin Newman coated? Yeah. Yes, 100%. Yes, unfortunately, yes. Yeah, but I had my pointer and my thumb kind of on the glasses. But before I could really get a good grip, they were just ripped out of my hands by the auto flush. And so I got toilet water on my hands with none of the payoff of getting my glasses out of the toilet.

2:26:22So I hope my message to the masses is take your glasses off before you go into the bathroom.

2:26:30David Sims:I do. I put them on the collar. That's what I do. That's a good one. I take them off and I put them on the collar. Just don't put them on your head is what I learned. I don't. Yeah, I know. It's a bad idea. Yeah. Well, that's a really good plug. Thank you. Don't put glasses on your head when using toilet. Yeah. After this, Martin Scorsese finally has an unqualified hit.

2:26:52Griffin Newman:Yes, The Color of Money. Right. We recorded that episode with Chris Ryan, and as far as I know, it is our 600th episode. Yeah, he hadn't seen the movie before,

2:26:59David Sims:and I don't think he liked it very much.

2:27:02Griffin Newman:Just kidding. It's in the way that you do that. There we go. Quick question. How old is Marty when he directs this movie? Quick question. 40-something? Marty Scorsese, of course, was born in 1942. So he's about 42, 43 years old. Why? He's about, I was just curious.

2:27:20David Sims:He's about David age? He's about David age. Are you accusing him of being chopped by the time he made this film? Was he unk? He was unk. He was unk. He wasn't chopped. What's Ohio? Isn't there a state that they use to mean lame and it's rude? And why they you mean? I don't know. The young people. My little cousin was telling me that some, do you know what I'm talking about here?

2:27:41Griffin Newman:No, I don't.

2:27:41David Sims:There's a state that's now like synonymous with lame and I find it offensive. Well, what states do you have a personal tie to? All of them. I love this country. Wow. Yay Happy Septuquint to Brunson

2:27:58Griffin Newman:Very good Thank you Yes anything else you would like to plug You should have a podcast You should have a podcast Maybe I will Well well well That's a threat to the masses Maybe I'll make a podcast Maybe I'll start Twitch streaming Yeah I was about to say

2:28:11David Sims:You're threatening a Twitch You're gonna learn video games And stream it real time And it's a really good pitch It is Ohio It is Ohio Thank you Wow It looks like I'm the hippest and the youngest. Well, well, well.

2:28:24Griffin Newman:You break a bone. I am a baby. Griffin just turned 20.

2:28:29David Sims:I did. I got to dinner with my grandmother and her friends last night. And every time I do this, it reminds me that I share most conditions with people in their 90s. Yeah.

2:28:41Griffin Newman:But the thing is, Griffin, now that you're calling it out on the podcast, it's kind of chuggy.

2:28:46David Sims:It's kind of cool. Look, my body's Ohio, but my brain is also Ohio. Hey, I popped an antacid before I came here. That's what it's about. That's what it's all about. The hot girls have tummy troubles or some shit. Isn't that a meme? It was. Okay. Don't try that. Now that's Ohio? That's Ohio. That is so Ohio. Yeah.

2:29:09Griffin Newman:Well, thank you for coming. Please come back, Allie. And yeah, next week, Color Money. Take us out of here, Griffin. launch us out of here

2:29:17David Sims:yeah do the whole thing thank you all for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe tune you can go to patreon.com slash blank check for our patreon blank check special features where we're currently watching the Resident Evil movies we must be getting we're about halfway through retribution coming up going up to Dracula our March Madness winner after that'll start in November and as always yes I wanna I want to make a commitment on the show to cover more Griffin movies. So unfortunately, it does mean we're going to have to cover the films of Frank Karachi. Don't get it. The zookeeper's name is Griffin.

2:29:55David Sims:We all know that Kevin James' zookeeper's name Griffin. We all know that. His name is Griffin. Everybody knows that. Everyone knows that Kevin James' zookeeper's name Griffin. I've been really tempted to start just saying numbers during this outro.

2:30:15Griffin Newman:Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley.

2:30:22David Sims:Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon.

2:30:28Griffin Newman:This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in The Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack.

2:31:07Griffin Newman:This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

2:31:17Griffin Newman:All-new, Line of Fire. The thrilling, new crime drama. The world sees us as heroes, but they don't know what the job really costs. One family of federal agents. It's one thing to put yourself in danger. It's different when it's your family. Balances duty to their country. An assassin is still out there. Stop! And each other. How do you protect the world and the people you love at the same time? Every case hits home on Line of Fire. Monday on NBC.