The Money Show: SpaceX Market Impact and Solving Social Security

18:58Jack Lew:Yeah. Well, you, as we know, are inherently skeptical. Your company name's Kynikos, a skeptic. You're not being a bull on SpaceX or Tesla or Elon Musk, completely tracks. Is there anything in the SpaceX financials or Musk's management of the company that does impress you that you can say a good job on?

19:15Jim Chanos:Look, I think Starlink's a real business. We can look at their businesses. Again, we have to go on what's in the prospectus. Starlink's a real business. It's growing. It will probably continue to grow, although its growth is slowing. The launch business is still losing money after 22 years. And I'd be remiss from my fellow glass-half-empty participants if I didn't point out that the rocket that all of this depends upon, Starship, still has not achieved Earth orbit in 12 missions. And half of those ended up with some sort of mishap. So there's a lot riding on all of that. I think Starlink is a real business.

19:57Jim Chanos:It's worth a couple hundred billion dollars. But the real hopes and dreams here is on XAI, which is, by the way, a company they bought in February for$250 billion in stock that the market is now valuing at probably well over a trillion and a half dollars. I'm Bloomberg Television. I'm Bloomberg Radio. Worldwide with us, Jim Chano. It's thrilled he could join us today in this historic moment for his Wall Street and all of us around the world. So the short crew is said Tesla, Tesla, Tesla, somewhat like SpaceX. And I'm enjoying a 53 percent per year return since sort of the beginning of COVID, you know, back six years or so.

20:39Jim Chanos:So, you know, again, Tesla's done better than good, and there's a model negative free cash flow right now. How long can the optimists of SpaceX keep this going without delivering a more conventional income statement? Well, I think you answered the question, right? Years, if possible. But Tesla is trading at about 14 times revenues, right? It does have$100 billion in revenues, and it ramped revenues pretty quickly in 2019 and 2020. So there is a real business there in terms of large amounts of revenues and some cash flow. It's not trading at 110 times revenues. And that's a magnitude of difference, I think, that's really important for your viewers.

21:28Jim Chanos:I've got, just for the first time, Scar, I've ever looked, the same BQ function on the Bloomberg. And, of course, Jane Nelson nails the price to sales because he studied Tom Galvin years ago. I've got 20. Well, right now I've got a number of 27 times revenue on the BQ scheme. It may be a little higher than that. I've never seen a stock like that.

21:46Jack Lew:So that I mean, I'm glad you guys bring up Tesla because there is this expectation that Tesla and SpaceX will somehow merge or will be combined in the same way that XAI and SpaceX got combined and merged. How are you thinking through that? What does that mean for investors who believe in the Tesla business but are maybe skeptical of SpaceX?

22:04Jim Chanos:Well, again, if it happens, and I have no idea if it will happen or not.

22:07Jack Lew:Does Elon need to make it happen?

22:09Jim Chanos:No, he doesn't need to make it happen. He can give himself a few months. It's solely up to him. We all know that. But it would be an equity for equity deal. And so I don't know how much value that would add in terms of cutting overhead is not the story here. right it's really it's really what these companies will produce in the next five ten years i look at this jim chanos is an historic moment and the answer is to the cycles and i opened up talking about enron and all that i want you to talk about the short business right now is a hugely important part of financial society in this great bull market we're in right now there's a lot of scars out there.

22:52Jim Chanos:How do you keep that going when you see SpaceX right now? How do you keep a short model going with bull sectors and a bull trend in the broader market? So through 2023, we're running outside money. Now we run our own money. We've been hedged in the short world since 1996. Basically, our view has been we don't know where the market's going, nor does anybody else. So we'd rather be long the market and short our collection of radioactive companies, if you will. And that's been a very profitable business. And it's been a very profitable business for the last few years, too, despite the market hitting new highs.

23:28Jim Chanos:Because there have been a lot of stocks, as you guys know, that have lagged dramatically. So our view is always be long the market and be short some percentage of companies with bad businesses. and I think that's nothing I would recommend your viewers to do at home, alright, I don't recommend short selling for most people, it's really for the pros for lots of reasons, things like getting an interest rebate on your shorts and a variety of other things but I will say that one of the things right now that is very apparent is that insurance is cheap, and it's cheap for all the reasons. I don't want to interrupt because Scarlett wants to get four more questions in Is SpaceX radioactive?

24:12Jim Chanos:We'll have to see where it settles out. You can't short it right now anyway, so it's a moot question. I mean, I think that anything trading over 100 times revenues is of our interest. Historically, returns have been awful at those valuations.

24:28Jack Lew:You mentioned earlier the dot-com bubble. Are we doing dot-com bubble 2.0 right now?

24:33Jim Chanos:Oh, this is much bigger. The AI build-out relative to the TMT build-out of 99-2000 is multiples, even as a percent of the economy, GDP. And an important thing to point out is that when you get these CapEx booms in technology, they're tremendously accretive to earnings. And there's a simple accounting reason why. That is, when Tom buys chips for his data center from NVIDIA, NVIDIA recognizes that as revenue and profit. Tom capitalizes those expenses and writes them off over five to ten years. And so you have a mismatch where the same dollar in a CapEx boom is recognized as profits by one entity and deferred by the same people expending the dollar.

25:25Jim Chanos:And that happened in 98, 99, 2000. From the middle of 98, S &P operating earnings rose 30 % to the middle of 2000 over the two years. From the middle of 2000 to the middle of 2001, when order books got pulled, S &P earnings dropped 40%. Was that too much accounting for a Friday? I think so. I'll stop at that.

25:50Jack Lew:Jim, let me ask you one last question before we let you go, because this is Bloomberg Money after all. How do you approach your own financial planning? How does it compare with how you advise or manage money for others?

26:00Jim Chanos:Well, it's mostly in my business and in ancillary things. Since I'm semi-retired right now, then I'm advising people not directly running their money. So it's pretty conservative.

26:12Jack Lew:So you set and forget or you do make a lot of changes?

26:15Jim Chanos:It's mostly passive. Again, for most people, I think that's the way to go. Jim, we got our merch over here. Scarlett's got her Knicks jacket here ready to go. Let's go Knicks, Knicks and Five. She and Marie Horton are going to San Antonio. Why aren't we seeing you in the front row? Quickly here. Well, first of all, I live in Bucklewick, Bucks County, Tom. So I'm outside of Philly. So you're doing a 76 or something? Secondarily, my sons were born in Manhattan. I'm diehard Knicks fans, but I'm a Milwaukee Bucks fan. I'm a cheese fan. I knew I was going to hear that. You just had to get that for the record as well.

26:49Jack Lew:Jim, thank you so much for joining us today.

26:50Jim Chanos:Thank you, Jim. Thank you so much for having me. You're listening to Bloomberg Money. Stay with us with more to come after this.

27:22Jack Lew:Hero.co. 34 to 48 % fewer calories than regular products. Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving. Data accurate as of 2-20-26. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The Splash into Savings event from Apple Vacations is here. Now through June 25th, save up to$150 on vacation packages, plus instant savings at select resorts in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and top U.S. destinations. Use promo code JUNE26 for these limited-time offers. Start planning today at applevacations.com or contact your travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts.

28:00Jack Lew:And now, another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. With two dogs, every wash load came out covered in fur. I went into Grand Appliance looking for a fix, and they recommended the Maytag Top Load with Pet Pro Hair Removal System. They had it in stock and installed it days later. And you know what? It really works. Lint rollers are a thing of my past now. Great recommendations from the appliance experts. Shop GrandAppliance.com. GrandAppliance.com.

28:32Jack Lew:We want to stick with the stock of the hour, and that is SpaceX. The Bloomberg Money team writing the following. SpaceX IPO whips Musk fans into frenzy. The more, the better. One investor told our reporters, quote, this feels like the appetizer. You have to believe it, Elon. I'm willing to overpay for it just to say I'm part of the thing. Bloomberg Money editor Nikki Waller joins us now to discuss. So this has become experiential. It's not just about being part of your portfolio. It's just about being part of the experience and being a Musk fanboy. Yeah, it's part of the conversation, right? This is an IPO we're going to be talking about at cocktail hour.

29:07Jack Lew:And this is a place for Elon Musk's fans to show just how much they believe in him and his vision. Is there a unified voice, retail voice on SpaceX? I mean, we quoted that person who said that they just need to get in there no matter what. But I wonder how much divergence there is within the voices out there. There is no unified retail voice in SpaceX. I think one of the most interesting things about this, given who Elon Musk is and how strongly people feel about him, the sentiment, what people are talking about on Reddit, the places where people go to debate. It's really not about whether or not you like Elon.

29:45Jack Lew:It's about, is this a good investment or not? Which is a little bit heartening right now that it's not a culture war. It's actually a value conversation. What are the cases traders are saying are the, you know, to buy the IPO versus not buying the IPO, especially for a retail investor? I think for retail investors, there is the FOMO that we're talking about. You want to be in at the beginning and on the ground floor. We saw a lot of people that we've talked to over the week who have sold other stocks to give themselves dry powder for this offering. On the other hand, there are people who are not bothered by not getting in at this stage and they'll get in a little later, even if it is more expensive.

30:23Jack Lew:And they believe that a lot of these people are Tesla investors. They're going to hold and believe that this will turn up value for them. Or it will just end up in their portfolio because it's part of the S &P 500 after a year. We're the great many of us, yes. And a year from now, it'll be in our target date funds and elsewhere in the 401k, if it performs as people hope. All right, Nikki Waller, thank you so much. Bloomberg Money Editor Nikki Waller. She is the person behind our Bloomberg Money efforts here at Bloomberg.

30:51Jim Chanos:Building out each and every day, what we know is the news flow has been extraordinary. There's been things off the radar, but then things that hit home. The reports this week, the update on your Social Security, those older than you, their Social Security was sobering to say the least. We get lucky. Jacob Lew is a former U.S. Treasury Secretary. His current shingle out at Columbia University is Professor of International and Public Affairs. But far more than that, a heritage to Massachusetts politics working for Tip O 'Neill ages ago in the 1983 Greenspan Commission. So what were you, a page 15 years old working?

31:31Jim Chanos:What was it like working on the Greenspan solution to Social Security?

31:36Jack Lew:Good to be with you, Tom and Scarlett. I was about 25 years old. It was, you know, out of college, an early job. And I worked on Social Security really from the beginning of the time I worked for the Speaker through 83. So like four years. And the days were very challenging Now we think we live in the most partisan days ever The Reagan-O 'Neill fights were pretty legendary And the 1982 congressional campaign was fought out over Social Security in large part Would you or would you not protect Social Security? We had leaders at the time who avoided poisoning all of the possible solutions as they went through their political battles.

32:23Jack Lew:And the Greenspan Commission, Alan Greenspan played an important role, but it was really a cover for a negotiation between Reagan and O 'Neill to figure out what could they agree on. And there were back-channel negotiations about what could we do on benefits, what could they do on revenues. And when it came to an end, it was a solution that, here we are 50 years later talking about the fund running out.

32:48Jim Chanos:50 years is a pretty good accomplishment. 14 years, let's go to the Brookings Institution right now, and Jack Lew front and center here, obviously through all his services as Secretary of the Treasury. Brookings, lessons learned from Simpson Bowles. 11 of the members said, yeah, let's do this, let's do this, recommending that the federal government take dramatic action. That number was short of the super majority. It didn't get done. They missed the 14 votes. Is that where we're heading again, to another Simpson Bull or with the leadership of you, of Peter Orszag and others associated with the Republican Party, can we get it done so she can get a Social Security check?

33:29Jack Lew:So look, the reality is the trustees report that came out this week says that in 2032, Social Security will run short of paying the old age benefits fully. It'll be a 22 percent benefit cut if nothing happens. You look combined at the old age survivor and disability trust funds, it's only two more years. 2034, it runs short. Having the idea of a 20 to 25 percent cut in benefits is unacceptable. Most people retiring rely on Social Security for most of their household income. It may not be true in the world that we live in, but for the majority of people retiring, they cannot afford to give up 10 or 20 percent of their Social Security check.

34:12Jack Lew:The challenge is how do you create a sense of urgency around this to deal with it so that you're not on the eve of the trust fund running out of money. Any solution that's really going to work requires some time to take effect. If you do things on the benefit side, even in a way that has a modest impact, long lead time is needed. If you do things on the revenue side, the same. You can't just say, tomorrow we're going to close the gap. So it should be treated as an issue for today, not an issue for 2032. You put this in terms of the kind of presidential calendar. It means that before the end of the first term of the next president, something has to be done.

34:55Jack Lew:Now, there's good work being done. There's a group at the Brookings Institution that put out a bipartisan proposal. It has a combination of tinkering with benefits and tinkering with revenues, doing things that are kind of on the model of the 1983 package. And it has an impressive number of former Republican and Democratic members of Congress endorsing it. I'm going to be speaking at a conference at Brookings at the end of the month, June 24th, where these issues are going to be discussed. I give you a lot of credit for starting the conversation here now. It wasn't my idea.

35:28Jim Chanos:Scarlett said, I'm not getting a check. Get Jack Lewin here.

35:31Jack Lew:This is because as a Generation Xer, Gen Xer, I just naturally assumed growing up, yes, that Social Security would be insolvent by the time that I would need to draw upon it, that it wasn't going to be there. It's kind of a Ponzi scheme where I pay into it and nothing's going to come back to me. I just made my peace with that, and most members of my generation have too. Here's a really dumb question, Jack. Can't the government just print more money to put into Social Security to make the benefits whole? First, on the financing, it never runs out of money because there's payroll taxes coming in on a current basis.

36:03Jack Lew:It falls short, and the estimate is 22 % short. So I think it's unacceptable to have a 22 percent benefit cut. But not being there is something of a misunderstanding. And I think the challenge is how do you drive the political process to talk about not having the unacceptable outcome of that across the board cut? Can the government just print more money to make it? Oh, listen to you. Oh, I mean, this is a question that's out there. We have issues that are fiscal challenges besides Social Security. We're running an enormous deficit. Our debt is growing. I was OMB, Office of Management and Budget Director, for three years when we had a balanced budget and a surplus.

36:44Jack Lew:And we thought we were on a path towards paying the debt. That's not where we are today. We're on a path where we have to worry, will the world support our borrowing needs in the years to come?

36:55Jim Chanos:So just printing money adds to that problem. I was going to segura this in a bit, but Scarlett's taking over the show. Let's get to it now. Our debt and our deficit. None of us have ever seen this. This is what I say in interviews. It's what I say in speeches. What do we do after Trump? What is the behavior pattern of our fiscal policy and fiscal dialogue after this president of the United States?

37:19Jack Lew:I think this conversation about Social Security is going to be the first test. You know, it's the thing that's most pressing in terms of requiring immediate attention. And frankly, on neither side of the aisle, do you hear leaders talking about taking the kinds of responsible fiscal policy steps to put our whole house in order? Ultimately, it will require a combination of difficult decisions that our history is are better taken on a bipartisan basis than not. That doesn't seem to be in the cards right now. I would say start with Social Security, fix Social Security. Everybody wants Social Security to be there and build a little trust to move to the other conversations.

37:59Jack Lew:What I worry about is, you know, the legacy of the Trump administration is leaving very little resources to meet urgent needs. The burden of paying the debt is growing as a percentage of the budget. So whether you care about national defense or feeding hungry children, it's going to be harder and harder to pay the bills. So these issues are going to have to be addressed. We have to start somewhere. You know, when we talk about the national deficit, the debt burden that's out there, a lot of people wonder how it connects to their finances, their livelihoods, their lived experience. Elected officials say you don't want to make it bigger and leave it to your kids and grandkids to shoulder that burden.

38:39Jack Lew:But what does dealing with it actually look like? What kind of sacrifices would people need to accept making in order to reduce that deficit? Look, the things that are driving the federal deficit are we spend more than we collect in revenue. It's not more complicated than that. We spend about 23 percent of GDP. We raise 15 to 70 percent of GDP. Revenues, when we balance the budget, were 21 percent of GDP. That's what Paul Simpson looked at as a target. We're going to have to talk about taxes. We can't talk exclusively about taxes. If you fix Social Security, in 1983, when we fixed Social Security, it actually helped the overall fiscal health of the country.

39:23Jack Lew:We didn't do it to balance the budget, but when you make changes that bring more revenue in, and even in a modest way, curtail spending, it helps. So I think there's going to have to be a conversation that's very hard on both sides.

39:36Jim Chanos:I've got, with the time running out here, Jack Lew, I've got like eight ways to go. I noticed SpaceX, we'll do it here in a moment, folks. SpaceX out to a new high right now. We'll get to that after Professor Liu. I want to go back to the core issue, and this is a Bloomberg issue in the fancy people we talked to. I went back, one of the greatest amount of hate mail I've ever gotten on a chart was explaining to people that the rich stopped paying their fair share of Social Security ages ago. It's one of the linchpins of Social Security reform that the fancy people like me just simply have to put more in.

40:13Jack Lew:Yeah, look, the fact that we stop paying Social Security payroll taxes when we keep on earning quite a lot of money beyond that is a relatively easy policy solution, which won't dramatically affect the standard of living of people who are in a fragile place. I think it's a little unfair to say that people don't pay their fair share. We have a progressive benefit structure where your Social Security benefit is a higher percentage of your prior wages and a better return on your payroll taxes than if you're at the high end. I think that's a positive feature. That's a feature, not a bug. I mean, we have a system that does modest redistribution where everybody's in it together.

40:57Jack Lew:You think about the things that in our society are poverty programs and how they've fared in the last few years. Look at Medicaid. Cut deeply. Look at SNAP, the food stamps program. Cut deeply. There is no longer an AFDC program. It was replaced by TANF. So if you put things in the basket of poverty programs, they are much more vulnerable. I think to strengthen Social Security, we should all be in it together, and I think the right thing to do is to raise the earnings limit. But we also have to look at what you do on the benefit side in some ways, taking a long lead time, not doing anything dramatic.

41:36Jim Chanos:Wonderful to see you. Look forward to seeing you again. Jack Lew with his folks. Of course, the former Treasury Secretary of the United States, now at Columbia University. Coming up, it's become instantly popular. Books. I have a book. Scarlett has a book. Elon has books.

41:54Jack Lew:Well, there are books that Elon likes reading. There are lots of books about Elon as well. So we can go in any number of ways.

41:59Jim Chanos:One of my favorite books out there. I'll give you a hint. Mr. Isaacson is on the Elon Musk list. Ah, there you go. From New York City on this Friday, Bloomberg Money. Stay with us.

42:14Jack Lew:Got it. Yeah.

42:18Jack Lew:Hero Bread delivers the stacked sandwiches, loaded bagels, rich mac and cheese you love, just with a better protein to calorie balance that may help fuel you longer. Made with high-quality ingredients, every bite lands soft and satisfying with up to 19 grams of protein, plus up to 32 grams of fiber per serving. Shop now at Hero.co. Code iHeart for 10 % off. All figures per serving. See calorie info at Hero.co. 34 to 48 % fewer calories than regular products. Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving. Data accurate as of 2-20-26. Apple Vacations, where your story starts.

42:52Jack Lew:The Splash into Savings event from Apple Vacations is here. Now through June 25th, save up to$150 on vacation packages, plus instant savings at select resorts in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and top U.S. destinations. Use promo code JUNE26 for these limited-time offers. Start planning today at AppleVacations.com or contact your travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts.

43:19Jim Chanos:And now, another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance.

43:23Jack Lew:I want to eat healthier, but get frustrated when produce spoils before I can eat it. So I went to Grand Appliance looking for a fridge that would help. They recommended a Frigidaire Gallery French door with crispers that block dry air and excess moisture to extend the life of fresh food. And wow, it really works. No more wasted food in my house. Expert appliance recommendations for the win. Shop GrandAppliance.com

43:53Jim Chanos:Welcome back. Bloomberg Money from New York City. Scarlett Fu and Tom King, somewhat of a special edition. Yes, personal finance. We're doing retirement, Social Security Day and wealth management. I'm not out of triple leveraged all cash yet. I have not gone long on SpaceX.

44:09Jack Lew:You're not buying up the triple leveraged single stock on SpaceX? All right. Well, we'll see how that goes. But in the meantime, let's check in with Yahaira Anand. She is our Bloomberg Television correspondent joining us from the NASDAQ to give us an update here on what's going on with SpaceX. Yahaira. Hi, Scarlett. Well, we are seeing shares trading just under$165, well above their$135 iPrio pricing, giving SpaceX a market value of just over$2 trillion. That strong debut, though, isn't entirely surprising given the enormous demand we saw ahead of the offering from both the institutional side and retail investors with the deal heavily oversubscribed.

44:51Jack Lew:And now we are hearing the first reports of technical issues. Robinhood putting out a post on X saying that Robinhood saw record-breaking traffic today. And as a result, some customers experienced latency and intermittent issues. They're saying that essential systems have now recovered. But as I said, not a surprise given that we knew that the retail demand for this stock was going to be huge. All right, Yahara, thank you so much, Yahara Anand. over at the NASDAQ. We'll be checking in with you throughout the trading day.

45:22Jim Chanos:Let me clear, it's buttressed up here. SpaceX, I'm sorry, it lifts up, it churns a little bit, the tension's there, the sweat's there. But on first blush, congratulations to these bankers for getting the price right. It's an art. It just doesn't happen with exospecial.

45:38Jack Lew:Well, the price is usually right on the first day of trading. It's a matter of whether the price is still right a week from now or two weeks from now or two months from now.

45:44Jim Chanos:Huge feedback last week to our book section. What we're going to do today, just to spare it down, is to look at the books of the gentleman in the leather jacket at the New York Stock Exchange a bit ago, and that would be Elon Musk. I look at these, Scarlett. Why don't you run through the three books we've got right now?

46:01Jack Lew:It's a foundation series by Isaac Asimov. Isaac Asimov. And apparently this is the book that he put in the red sports car that he shot into space. So he wanted this to be noted for posterity.

46:11Jim Chanos:If you're of a certain vintage, you dream with Mr. Asimov.

46:16Jack Lew:It's a science fiction series. That's what Luigi tells me, our producer. And his favorite book, by the way. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. This really has a lot about the formulating the right questions. And we know that Elon Musk is a big thinker type. So I think he said that this had a great influence on him during middle school.

46:36Jim Chanos:And the third book I just think is so important, folks, and poignant here with the death of the gentleman from Brown University, Gordon S. Wood. Gordon Wood was our definitive biographer of Benjamin Franklin. He is the one that brought him to life. And then Walter Isaacson exploded Benjamin Franklin even more into our consciousness. You see it. There was the TV series that was out that was so good.

47:01Jack Lew:Who played Benjamin Franklin? Do you know?

47:03Jim Chanos:I can't remember right now. You're the celebrity lodestone. You should. It was kind of a true question. But the answer is that it's a really important statement about America's first entrepreneur.

47:13Jack Lew:I like the way you put that. Yes. Elon Musk appreciates the profile of Benjamin Franklin by Walter Isaacson. We know that Elon Musk admires Ben Franklin deeply for his journey from being an entrepreneur to being an inventor. And that's kind of how Elon Musk sees himself, along with all the other hats that he wears.

47:31Jim Chanos:Let us know here at Bloomberg Money your thoughts on books. I think one of the ways we go is just get five books from Scarlet would be a good angle.

47:40Jack Lew:Let's just do one a week. I don't know that I can read five at once.

47:42Jim Chanos:Well, I know who says we have to read them. That's the way it is. I'm reading right now. Valley Nassar on Iran, Iran, Iran, NASR. Francine LaCroix introduced me to him. It is the one volume on Iran.

48:03Jim Chanos:Bloomberg Money. Good noon to you. Tom Keeney, Scarlett Fouillard. It's really a special edition. Shout out to our team for like, talk about rip up the script. Wednesday, you just blew it up. And I called up Elon. I said, can you make the trading like I'm thinking 18 minutes ahead of time? And he and his team, they nailed it. It's SpaceX. It's pretty incredible. Out to a new high right now. We're up 26 % off that. And you know what's amazing? Lisa Mateo and her kids on the couch in Robin Hood and their trades got through. The look ahead before she retires here this weekend with Bloomberg this weekend.

48:39Jim Chanos:Lisa Matteo, what do you have?

48:40Jack Lew:I got the phone calls already. So I want to start out with what we're looking ahead to next week. Middle East, of course, definitely in focus. You have President Trump saying that the U.S. and Iran are possibly coming closer to a deal. You have sources telling Bloomberg. Yes, you have sources telling Bloomberg it could happen at the sidelines of the G7 summit. But now you have the prime minister of Pakistan coming out on social media and saying that the text, they've agreed to it. They've reached that. outside confirmation. Exactly. He posted it on social media and he's saying that, you know what, we're going to keep talking with them and a deal could be reached.

49:10Jack Lew:His quote saying, peace has never been as close as it is now. So you look at oil, you look at Brent, you look at WTI crude, they're both down more than 3%. So that's something we're going to be focused on into the weekend.

49:21Jim Chanos:It's an important point to see Brent down 3%. I mean, with the oscillations this week.

49:25Jack Lew:Yeah, it absolutely has. And in fact, oil prices are set to close the week lower if we continue along this path. There's also quite a bit of data coming out, including on the consumer, which is what we're all concerned about. Correct. Retail sales. We can't forget about that. And we also have the FOMC, meaning talking about interest rates. So there's a new Bloomberg survey out today that shows that economists are feeling that rates are going to stay steady throughout 2026. We'll see. The question, though, is what is Kevin Warsh going to say? It's his first press conference. So what exactly is he going to say?

49:55Jack Lew:Bloomberg Intelligence says he's going to steer away from any kind of hinting or guidance as far as interest rates.

50:01Jim Chanos:Party at Lisa's tomorrow night. Nick's. We don't have to. We can stay up and watch the whole game. You're inviting yourself over to Lisa's place? Yeah, party at Lisa's. And we don't have to go to sleep.

50:11Jack Lew:Tom doesn't care about the FOMC right now. What he cares about is the next watch party at your house over the weekend. Correct. I know, but I can't stay up late because we have Bloomberg. That's right. That's her built-in excuse.

50:22Jim Chanos:We get tortured.

50:23Jack Lew:The weekend, that's the one thing we give away. But yes to the game Saturday. So you have to keep in mind for that. Here's the thing. If we do not win, and I don't want to put that out there. Don't jinx us. But I know I'm not going to jinx it, but there's a number going out there, and it's$263 million in economic activity. They're saying if it comes back to New York. So that's the big number that they're saying. But I say forget the big number. Let's just get it. Let's just get it in five, and we can celebrate at the parade. Yes. Let's do it that way. I like your line of thinking. I like your line of thinking.

50:54Jack Lew:Another big event. Can't forget World Cup 2 also happening today. We have the U.S. taking on Paraguay. That's tonight. And then this weekend, Saturday, you have the games coming to the New York, New Jersey area. So that's going to be Brazil and Morocco. And that's taking place on Saturday.

51:07Jim Chanos:This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast bringing you a smart look. Three, two. This is the Bloomberg Money Podcast bringing you a smart look at the forces shaping your financial life. I'm Tom Keene with Scarlet Fu. You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV every Friday at noon Wall Street time. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.

51:40Jack Lew:Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The Splash Into Savings event from Apple Vacations is here. Now through June 25th, save up to$150 on vacation packages, plus instant savings at select resorts in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and top U.S. destinations. Use promo code JUNE26 for these limited-time offers. Start planning today at AppleVacations.com or contact your travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. If your best finance people are doing expense reports, chasing receipts, or spending time on month-end close, It's time to get Brex AF, a gentic finance that eliminates that work before it starts.

52:22Jack Lew:Learn more at brex.com slash AF. And now another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. I want to eat healthier, but get frustrated when produce spoils before I can eat it. So I went to Grand Appliance looking for a fridge that would help. They recommended a Frigidaire Gallery French door with crispers that block dry air and excess moisture to extend the life of fresh food. And wow, it really works. No more wasted food in my house. Expert appliance recommendations for the win. Shop GrandAppliance.com.