Anthropic Nears $20B Run Rate, Apple to Sell $599 Laptop

18:47Ed Ludlow:More generally for the AI community, there's also likely to be concerned about what does this mean that the government's willing to do in terms of stepping in if they don't like the decisions of a particular product? What does this also mean for America's AI leaders when other countries around the world want them to make changes for the government to use their products for things that go beyond what they deem ethical?

19:11Caroline Hyde:In your paper, you cite the great Albus Dumbledore and you say, as he did at the end of the Philosopher's Stone or Sorcerer's Stone, if you're in America, it takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends. Why did you invoke Albus Dumbledore and what are you trying to say there?

19:29Ed Ludlow:I think when we think about American companies typically standing up to pressure from governments, we're thinking about will American companies hold true to American values when they're faced with pressure from foreign adversaries, when the Chinese or the Russian government asks them to cross bright lines that violate American values, violate the ideas of civil rights or civil liberties. When Anthropic was faced with similar pressure from the U.S. government asking it to violate its ethics, to make sure to remove what it felt were necessary ethical safeguards to prevent mass surveillance or the use of its AI and autonomous weapons, it also said no.

20:11Ed Ludlow:And that's something that shows a great deal of courage, whether it's standing up to a foreign adversary and understanding the business loss there, but particularly when it's standing up to your own government, knowing that there could, in this case, be very real consequences in the market. Jennifer, what caught my eye was you're saying this is akin, this behavior is akin to something we'd expect from the Chinese government. Now, where should the agreements or not go in the future? You at the Cato Institute are all about limited government. But at this moment, there are deep ethical questions about the future of generative AI and its implications for the use in the military and writ large for the labor market.

20:53Ed Ludlow:How does this get decided? Should it be a Congress decision? Should it be just a case-by-case decision? One of the things that makes this situation unique is this goes beyond just a mere dispute over a procurement contract because of those additional threats, the threats to either invoke the Defense Production Act or to label the company a supply chain risk. But I think it does highlight some of the underlying concerns or debates over how should we think about protecting civil liberties and civil rights when it comes to AI use by the government. AI can be used for wonderfully productive ways in the government, just as it can in the private sector, to help constituents find the services they need.

21:33Ed Ludlow:But there are also real and legitimate concerns about the way it could be abused. Again, in this particular dispute, two of the issues were mass surveillance and autonomous weapons. One of the places that we need clarity when it comes from policymakers is around what the government's going to do to restrain itself in its use of AI. This will help both citizens and innovators feel more comfortable with the technology, both in the government context and beyond. Jennifer Huddleston is a fascinating blog. People should go read it. Senior Fellow in the Technology Policy at the Cato Institute. Thanks so much for joining us today.

22:14Ed Ludlow:Checking in on shares of Apple that are trying to hold on to gains today as they unveil yet more new products. And this week they've announced plenty, but today it's the turn of the MacBook Neo with a starting price of just$599. Bloomberg's Dana Wallman joins us for the details. This is about$400 cheaper than the usual price point for Apple. Who are they going against here? So this is really, truly the first low-end, and I hesitate to call it low-end, but the first low-priced laptop that Apple has put out. And this puts it in direct competition with all sorts of Windows PC makers that have long offered budget laptops, not to mention Chromebooks.

22:52Ed Ludlow:Machines that are sold not just to individuals who are on a budget, but also institutions like schools that are buying in bulk.

22:58Caroline Hyde:The question is, well, how did they do it? And one of the ways they did it was to use the processor that has its ties to the iPhone, not the M5 chip. Just explain what's going inside.

23:09Ed Ludlow:Yes, absolutely. So in terms of just the internals inside, this puts the MacBook Neo about on par with an iPhone 16 Pro released in 2024. And I think that the release of this machine really is a testament to how far mobile silicon has gone. As I said, companies have been offering lightweight, really cheap laptops for a long time now. But just because they have been available, that doesn't mean that we necessarily would have recommended them to most people. and that is because the processors available at the time for years were pretty low powered and you really could feel that in the form of slow pokey performance and I think it is a testament to the quality of the silicon and the technical advance the technological advancements that Apple was willing to put out a machine at this price point running a mobile processor inside.

23:57Ed Ludlow:Yeah I mean John Ternus in a statement he's the hardware engineering chief talking about how from the ground up they've built this piece of tech to be more affordable but this comes at a time where personal electronics is getting more expensive all because of memory. Yes, absolutely. It really is striking that Apple was able to announce today a machine that's about$600 at a time when we've been warned that the prices of things like laptops, smartphones are about to go up precisely because of this memory crunch crisis. And I think that the price point combined with the moment where everyone is nervous about prices, about prices of consumer electronics specifically, and also just the fact that this is a fresh new design with things like new colors, things that do frankly matter to consumers who've been possibly holding off on a new purchase for a while.

24:41Ed Ludlow:If I had to guess, I think this is going to be a popular seller over the coming months.

24:45Caroline Hyde:Right. And those Mac Airs and Mac Pros, they had the entry level, the lowest storage spec removed, which basically carries an effective price hike. If you read the writing from the Bloomberg News team. Bloomberg's Dana Thank you very much.

25:06Caroline Hyde:Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. The war in Iran entering its fifth day. The story in equity markets, at least, is technology rebounding. The Nasdaq 100 is off-session highs, but up 1.4%, now positive on the week. Things have changed very quickly. We still see movement in bonds. Looking at the US 10-year yield, 4.06%. It had at one point in the last 36, 48 hours gone above 4.1%. We're just kind of waiting to see the next step, politically speaking. But we are tracking both public and a little bit later in the show private markets too.

25:38Ed Ludlow:We certainly are. And look, big tech is leading the charge in terms of stocks. Big tech is also heading to Washington. Executives from Amazon, from Google, from OpenAI and others, they're set to meet with President Trump today to formalize a pledge to protect consumers from rising energy costs. That's an event that President actually alluded to during his State of the Union address, remember? We're telling the major tech companies that they have the obligation to provide for their own power needs. They can build their own power plants as part of their factory so that no one's prices will go up.

26:11Ed Ludlow:And in many cases, prices of electricity will go down for the community. Let's get to Bloomberg senior tech editor Mike Shepard. And for many, we already heard Microsoft lead the charge, but then Amazon, others talk about commitments they've already made. Well, that's right. And they're all going to step in with this pledge, this so-called ratepayer pledge later today during an event at the White House with the president. It's set to start at 3 p.m. and they are all going to sign this agreement. It's non-binding, but they will promise to try to bear some of the additional costs that their new data center build-out for artificial intelligence projects and infrastructure will bring in terms of rising electricity prices.

26:55Ed Ludlow:They want to make sure that as those data centers are built, all those projects are carried out, that consumers are not forced to bear the burden of that. And now in this, Caro, they will be agreeing to work with state governments and utilities on rate structures that will try to protect consumers. But that is further down the road. And all this, it's important to note, is non-binding. So there's no guarantee that all of this will be carried out. We are already seeing some states, Caro, take steps on their own to try to shield consumers. In New Jersey, for instance, the new governor, Democrat Mikey Sherrill, has frozen utility rate hikes.

27:33Ed Ludlow:in keeping in mind the vulnerability that consumers are increasingly feeling from rising electricity prices. The last Consumer Price Index report that we saw showed that energy prices are up 6.3 percent in utility bills, and that compares to 2.4 percent year over year in overall inflation. So this is a leading indicator in terms of what the president is worried about when it comes to the affordability question, which looms large in the midterm elections, but it also looms large for these big tech companies, which are worried about some of the backlash and blowback from all those investments in artificial intelligence on which they have staked not only so much money, but really their entire businesses.

28:20Caroline Hyde:Bloomberg's Mike Shepard, thank you very much. Let's stay with data centers. We talk a lot about advanced hardware on this program for AI training and inference, but AI is also creating demand for storage. Hard disk drives to store the massive data sets AI generates. That's led to soaring valuations like WDs, formerly Western Digital. This is a stock that has surged in the last year, up 56 % or so so far in 2026. It's up 8 % in the session alone. WD CEO Emi Tan is with us. And welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. You know, I think there are loads of people that are going to watch this program and be like, I've got a WD hard disk drive, HDD, somewhere in my home.

29:01Caroline Hyde:I understand you have one. And I have one, right? And it protects some of my most valuable memories in terms of photos and videos. But the story is data center. And probably it's underappreciated. So start with that, where HDD fits in the data center story, and then use that to contextualize what is crazy demand right now. Sure. I mean, if you look at the AI value chain,

29:22Ed Ludlow:a lot of focus has been around the compute resources, right? GPUs, memory, that's a source of compute that's generating data. But ultimately, data needs to get stored. That data that's generated, it needs to be stored. And that's where hard drives really come to the fore. 80 % of data that is stored in the cloud is stored on hard drives. And as you look at where things are going with AI, what is happening is actually there's a structural change in how hyperscalers, the market really looks at the value of AI. And as a result, as the value of data increases, by association, storage increases as well because you need to store more and more of that data.

30:03Ed Ludlow:And a simple analogy to use is power generation. If you think of GPUs and memory as the power generators, data is actually the fuel that powers those power plants. And so really that is fundamental to enable AI going forward. So in short, if you don't have HDDs

30:22Caroline Hyde:we will store that data that's being created. Can we extrapolate on that analogy a little bit? So when we think about a data center, we think of it in terms of gigawatts. A gigawatt equates to hundreds of thousands of GPUs, depending on the stack. Is there an equivalent that our audience can understand when it comes to storage? So, you know, a like-for-like that you can chew on, maybe it's in petabytes, something like that, at that scale.

30:49Ed Ludlow:There isn't really a rule of thumb that you could use, say, if you have a gigawatt of compute, how much does that translate into storage? Because in a way, there's a bifurcation of compute from storage. If you think about AI, every time you run an AI workload, whether it's training or it's inference, those compute resources can be recycled every time you run a training model development or an inference workload. But the data that's getting generated as a result of that gets stored. It doesn't get deleted. Right. So storage is actually growing because of the value of data increasing over time. How much is your supply growing?

31:19Ed Ludlow:How much can you ramp up to meet the fierce demand? So we've projected that exabyte growth, which is the amount of storage that's needed, is going to go at 25 % CAGR over the next five years. We feel very confident that with the technology enhancements that we're bringing to be able to deliver higher capacity drives to the market, we're able to meet that demand going forward. What's interesting is it's yourself and Seagate many would sort of see as... Like a duopoly. Yeah, the place that people come to. So how are you ensuring with this fierce demand and perhaps anxiety coming from cloud providers and the like that they're not double ordering, that they're not ordering from you at the same time as Seagate to make sure that they get the fastest of the speediest?

31:56Ed Ludlow:Yeah, that's something we pay very close attention to, you know, looking at the inventory levels that our customers have, working very closely with them to reassure them that we have a technology roadmap that's going to be able to meet their needs. And I think what they also appreciate that storage has become a critical piece of the AI data center infrastructure stack. And as a result, we've really shifted the partnership model with our customers. They're giving us really good insight into the applications and workloads they're bringing to market over the next few years. A lot of it's going to be multimodal in nature.

32:28Ed Ludlow:And what I mean by that, a lot of it's going to be video-based because video is going to be a big driver of storage. And that's giving us a lot more confidence in terms of the demand that they're signaling to us and also ensuring that they're not creating an oversupply in the market. I mean, you talked about your innovation roadmap. Can we talk a minute about heated-assisted magnetic recording for those who aren't in the lingo? But basically, this is something that Seagate's been pushing forward on, and you too have been bringing that sort of innovation. Where are you in terms of neck and neck?

32:56Ed Ludlow:And you're already bringing this to customers. How is it testing out? What does it do? So we're already qualifying our heated-assisted magnetic recording, or HAMMER, affectionately, as we call it, with two customers. But we've taken a slightly different approach from our peer, where we have a dual-track process, right? We definitely are committed to HAMMER, and that's required to get us to 100 terabytes per drive and beyond. But in the interim, we feel that with our current EPMR technology for the next three years, we can actually get up to 60 terabytes and deliver it with more reliability, more quality, and more scalability to our customers

33:29Caroline Hyde:than a hard transition to hammer. So I've got to go back to something earlier. Why don't you just increase capacity? We don't need to increase unit capacity.

33:38Ed Ludlow:What we're actually doing is to use technology to increase the capacity per drive. So today we're shipping at the top end of our products a 32 terabyte hard drive. In the second half of this year, we'll be shipping a 40 terabyte drive. And between now and 2028, we'll be shipping close to a 60 terabyte hard drive. So just imagine that the capacity per drive is doubling in the next two years. So we don't actually have to increase the number of units we're producing. That's great for our customers because it means better total cost of ownership through higher rack density, lower power consumption.

34:11Ed Ludlow:and that's something that also aids the lower power demands of data centers.

34:16Caroline Hyde:We are going to have to compress this, but WD separated SanDisk, right? NAND, Flash. That has been an interesting financial transaction and hopefully we can get to it with time. But the basic conviction is that HDD is the way to go, focus. But the Flash guys would argue in the context of the data center in the cloud that SSD is going to have a role. What is your latest thinking on how that went and the project long term? So I think that the spin has been a very successful one.

34:47Ed Ludlow:If you look at how both companies have performed since the spin close to a year ago. Astonishingly well. Both have done really well. I think what is given both companies is a singular focus on their specific technology roadmaps, specific segments of the market that they play in as well. And specifically to your point, we are symbiotic, right? I mentioned 80 % of data that gets stored in the cloud are on hard drives. SSDs represent the next 15, 20 % of it as well. So it's a symbiotic relationship. There are some workloads that require lower latency. They're very much designed for SSDs. When it comes to long-term storage, the vast majority of metadata to support training and AI inference going forward, that's going to be leveraging HDDs because of the superior economics that we deliver.

35:32Ed Ludlow:We've also launched a month ago at our Innovation Day some new innovations coming out over the next 12 to 24 months. It's going to improve the data throughput and performance of hard drives that will also be able to support the needs of AI workloads coming down the pike as well. You're a global company. We have a pretty global issue on our hands at the moment. How are you thinking about your supply chain risk? How are you thinking about ensuring that your customers get what they need and when they want when you have manufacturing as far flung as Thailand, as China, here in the United States as well?

36:02Ed Ludlow:Yeah, we have a very global supply chain and quite a diversified one as well. We constantly model risk scenarios like the conflict they're unfortunately seeing in the Middle East right now. And from our current perspective, we're keeping a very close watch on it. I'm pleased to say as of now, none of our employees in that region are impacted. And there's no material impact to our business as well. We appreciate you being so candid and talking us through what is a fascinating part of the business. WD CEO there, Irving Tan. We thank you.

36:39Ed Ludlow:Let's return to the conflict in the Middle East, where one of the major concerns has been cyber strike, though so far no major attacks have been reported. Let's speak with Sanaz Yashar, co-founder and CEO of cybersecurity startup Zafran and a former member of the Israeli unit 8200, the country's military spy unit. So, Sanaz, has anything been occurring and it's just been protected thus far? Hello. Good morning. Yes. We are seeing increased activity in scanning what we call reconnaissance in cyber of different cyber actors and cyber groups. Some of them are hacktivists, just want to make noise or deny love service.

37:19Ed Ludlow:But we're still seeing some of those APTs trying to get access mainly to critical infrastructure. Thus far, not to any end, but Sanaz, what are the tactics, what deployment, what sophistication do you tend to see from Iran? It's a good question. Look, actually, they are very under pressure. Look, this is the first time Iran ever launched a missile on a European country like Cyprus. So they are all out. They are using all their existing arsenals. They are using a lot of AI to enable the volume. But I don't see any more sophistication than we have seen before, just big, big volume. They are all in, all out.

38:04And I do believe that this time also, since even the cyber groups in Iran are kind of under pressure, like there are being attacks on those places as well.

38:18Ed Ludlow:So I do think we should be more proactive, not reactive, and make sure at least we have protection in place against the known tools and techniques that they are using during the last two years.

38:31Caroline Hyde:Sanaz, yesterday the Homeland Security basically briefed the Senate on the heightened domestic risk here in the United States in the context of some form of response from Iran. With that in mind, could you just help us understand Iran's cyber competence, how much of a threat nation to nation they would pose if cyber would be one of the tools or things that they pursue in response to what is happening? Yeah, for sure.

39:07Ed Ludlow:Cyber is a part of Iranian regime's doctrine for defense and offense. And there are at least three different entities in Iran that are actively claiming and engaged with cyber offensive activities. One of them is Ministry of Defence, the other one is Ministry of Intelligence, and the last one is IRGC, which is like the Revolutionary Guards. Each of them has tools and techniques and a lot of people. And also there is some cyber partnership between the nation states and cyber crime. So this, I believe that these people are going to be still active and trying to deploy, for example, ransomware in main critical infrastructure, financials, healthcare.

39:58Ed Ludlow:And at the same time, also, there is some partnership between Iran and other countries as well.

40:04Caroline Hyde:Are we talking in terms of risk, it being U.S. institutions that would be on paper at risk from such an attack? Or is it sort of at the company and corporate level where America is most on the defense?

40:20Ed Ludlow:The company and corporate level. Like for the hackers, they are now looking for low-hanging fruits. Look, there is something to understand about Iran. Iran's main goal is to keep the government stable. There is nothing they want to achieve more than just being governing Iran. And for that, they have to show impact that they are strong, right? So more of the impacts is just to show that they can impact and damage Western companies, corporate level, and in order to gain back that prestige they have inside Iran. So there is no safe zone. And I think actually those that don't have cyber practice and cyber resilience in place, they are those that they will be the first victims of this run.

41:17Ed Ludlow:Sanaz, of course, many would say that in this era of generative AI, well, the threat level just spiked to the right in many areas of cyber. You are an AI native threat exposure management company. So how is AI being deployed by Iran, if at all, at this moment? The Iranians are using some public AI modules in order to scale their weapons. And the way you do a cyber activity, you need to get access first, and then you need to propagate that access to get your mission done. They are using it in order to get access much more. That scanning is being done a lot by AI. They even built new weapons by AI.

42:05Ed Ludlow:At the same time since, and we know about at least some of the groups that are doing their own agents in AI as well. At the same time, it looks like they are at the beginning somehow in the journey. And we find some bugs, if I may say, in their tools. Last summer, they tried to hack some water system in New York. and they had enough bugs in AI-created malwares that it didn't run fully. But what is important, I think, for your audience here is that AI is also a great impact for protection. Before this, you had to go and learn and understand 40 different groups and which tools they have. Now those agents can also help the enterprise level and help the market to be reducing that exposure to the risk in a very autonomous level.

42:59Caroline Hyde:Sanaz Yasha, CEO of Zafran, it's great to have you on the program. Thank you very much. A story we broke yesterday, Josh Kustin's Five Capital and Andreessen Horowitz are co-leading a fundraising round for Anderil that can nearly double the defense staff's valuation. That's according to sources who say they're sitting to raise$4 billion at about$60 billion post-money valuation. Caro, interesting timing given what's happening in the defense sector in Iran. Interesting that it's two big venture firms leading this late stage round.

43:29Ed Ludlow:And again, another company that remains private for as long as possible. But what's notable is we're at this moment where we're questioning autonomous weaponry. We're at this moment of ethical questioning. And we wonder how much that's something that's being debated in an investment level.

43:43Caroline Hyde:There's no confirmation that any Anderil tech's been used in Iran and no evidence or reports. But they do have deployments, anti-drone deployments in the Middle East, which is so common on US military bases. but they want to revolutionize the entire military tech stack, essentially.

43:58Ed Ludlow:They certainly do. And we keep a close eye on the activity of both Thrive and A16Z and how it continues to foster some of these enormously valued companies here in the US. Meanwhile, coming up, all eyes are on Broadcom, a publicly US-traded company that has results after the bell. We'll discuss that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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46:40Caroline Hyde:we're still keeping an eye on tech earnings next up being broadcom after the closing bell wall street expecting the chip maker to report strong results but based on recent trading patterns that likely won't be enough to reverse the stocks months long slum let's get out to bloombo tech equities reporter carmen reineke the expectation is they'll tell us more ai chip revenues from a6 but it will weigh on margins, right? Because of the mix and it being lower margin against their software businesses. What are we going to wait for? What are we going to watch for?

47:09Ed Ludlow:Yeah, I mean, those numbers are going to be really important. I think something that investors are specifically focused on is this$73 billion backlog that the company talked about in its latest quarterly earnings release. So in that December release, CEO Hawk Tan tried to make it clear that that was a minimum that they were expecting in revenue over the coming few quarters for AI. But investors thought that that fell a little bit short of what they were wanting. That sent shares down after that report. And they've really, you know, struggled to recover ground ever since. So that's something that's going to be really important.

47:45Ed Ludlow:The other thing that I'm going to be watching is how the company talks about its software unit and the questions that analysts ask around that. So that used to sort of be a benefit. It would offset the cyclical nature of the semiconductor portion. But now it's looking like a little bit more of an anchor and is also probably something that's weighed on shares in the last few months. Yeah, software has been beaten up. But what's notable is Broadcom shares have down significantly, but they're still quite expensive in comparison to, well, historical numbers. Yeah. So we've seen the valuation come in a little bit, in this broader slump, but they still trade at 27 times forward earnings.

48:24Ed Ludlow:And this is a premium to both the S &P and NVIDIA. And so investors are maybe looking at that and saying, maybe this is too expensive. It should come down a little bit more. It's above the five-year average for stocks. So definitely something that people will be watching, especially after NVIDIA's earnings last week were so good. And then the investor reaction was so muted.

48:44Caroline Hyde:It's kind of funny timing in the earnings cycle. We're either kind of late, depending on how you look at it, and this is their fiscal first quarter. I think they have like a$73 billion backlog for the ASICS part or AI chips part. Do we look at Broadcom as like a learning for what's happening in aggregate, in AI, data center demand, and so on?

49:04Ed Ludlow:Yeah, I think that it definitely has a little bit of that feel in the market. You know, it also has these partnerships with Google's TPUs. That's something that investors will be looking for. They want to know that that business is sustainable going forward, especially given large orders from Anthropic and I think OpenAI as well. Those orders expected to sort of ramp into 2027. And as I sort of said before, there's also this big software part of the business, which is mostly from their acquisition of VMware. So there's a lot of places in this company that you could look for some sort of insight into how AI is going, how this trend is progressing.

49:42Ed Ludlow:How have people seen it as a key competitor to NVIDIA going forward? How much, no matter how many of these companies say they're developing their own A6, OpenAI has, Meta has, and many, we still just can't get away from what feels like the dominance of NVIDIA in GPU and now CPU. You're totally right. I mean, Broadcom has really, I think, made a name for itself. It's been able to capture some of that market share with these different kind of chips. But NVIDIA is still the kingmaker there. It's the leader in the market, and it's expected to be able to have sort of the biggest part of the market share going forward.

50:15Ed Ludlow:So most analysts and investors seem to think that that pie is still big enough to mean that there's, you know, revenue to be had for a lot of different companies. But Braggom certainly has, I think, a little bit more maybe to prove on those sort of specific things when they're competing with something as large as NVIDIA.

50:35Caroline Hyde:On any given day, Carmen, you're usually responsible or partly responsible for some of the most read stuff on the terminal. And you've got a piece about chart watches, the risk of S &P 500 correction and what's happening in Iran. Summarize that and the data that you're seeing as best you can.

50:53Ed Ludlow:Yeah. So something that was really interesting yesterday, sort of the intraday lows in the market, it looked like the S &P was breaking out of this very narrow range that we've seen over the last few months and especially during the start of this year. It didn't quite close there, but chart watchers are definitely interested in this 6 ,800 level. And breaking to the downside, as it looked like might happen yesterday, would potentially portend future declines. So the next level people are watching would be 6 ,700, 6 ,600, and then even going down maybe to the 200 daily moving average. Now, on the flip side, if we could break back over that 7 ,000 range, it could portend further upside for the S &P.

51:34Ed Ludlow:So we're watching that all very closely. Carmen Reineken, across the markets, we so appreciate it. Thank you. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. The time is approximately 11.15 a.m. about to start a consensual telephone call with Dr. Daiwa Zhang.

52:00Caroline Hyde:China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

52:16Hey? Hello?

52:23Ed Ludlow:I've never seen that much evidence in my entire career, and I don't think we'll ever see that much evidence again. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau from Bloomberg Podcasts starting on February 13th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.