Broadcom Expects AI Chips Sales to Top $100 Billion in 2027

16:05Caroline Hyde:Hi, Ed. So basically, after the Israeli and U.S. strikes, Iran retaliated, and they hit three Amazon sites in the UAE and Bahrain. The other way around, there was also two sites hit in Iran, or what we know of, according to our reporting. And what this tells us is that data centers are becoming as critical and as strategic as oil and ports when it comes to war and the functioning of the state during war times. so why yeah yeah yeah and why were amazon specifically hit um they are of course wholly owned by the u.s software company and there's been some reports that they may have hosted some

16:54Cameron McCord:military data this is a frightening story and at the moment we're seeing breaking news around the uae telling to buy residents to seek shelter immediately due to missile threats we go back to therefore what operators of strategic infrastructure should do? How can these operators protect data centers right now and the people within them?

17:15Caroline Hyde:So obviously you have to evacuate some of these or operate on minimal staff. Going forward, I think you have to treat it as a military priority. So harden your infrastructure, which is very costly. Maybe build underground in bunkers and caves. but it's going to be have to have some sort of rethink as we go forward and think about data centres and how critical they are becoming also during times of war what that means

17:49Cameron McCord:Linnbergs, Lani, Prinsler, thank you so much for joining us on this important story, meanwhile coming up we're going to talk more about logistics, the logistics firm C.H. Robinson joining us to talk about integrating artificial intelligence into systems and dealing with an AI scare trade, not to mention what's happening for logistics in the Middle East. This is Bloomberg Tech.

18:18Trae Stephens:We're in Iran has put pressure on global supply chains. In recent weeks, global logistics stocks have also been hit, like other sectors, by the AI scare trade. But one name that's been given some credit in the markets for its AI integration is C.H. Robinson. How is the company managing both of those disruptive events? Dave Bozeman, the company's CEO, joins us now here in San Francisco. And you are in town with a big focus on AI in terms of who you're meeting with. But you are, when I talk about C.H. Robinson, your job is to move goods from point A to point B. So let's start with the conflict in the Middle East.

18:53Trae Stephens:What are you seeing? How is it impacting you day to day so far?

18:57Ed Ludlow:Well, first of all, thanks for having me here, Ed. One thing that's happening right now is disruption in our industry is a reality. Global disruption is a reality. And this is just one more thing that we're seeing and that we are navigating with our customers. We're obviously seeing the airports within the Middle East are shut down. It was an estimate of about 10 % to 13 % of that capacity being affected. We're talking air freight in that context. Correct. Air freight out of the airports out of the Middle East. The Strait of Hamos has obviously been affected, and that's caused some rerouting of ships around the Horn of Africa and just slowing down overall shipments with that disruption.

19:41Ed Ludlow:But again, it's something that we deal with. We've dealt with it before, and we'll help our customers navigate through that.

19:46Trae Stephens:This is a technology show, but throughout the week, we've been looking very closely at energy. Is there anything specific and distilled that you can tell us about in diesel, in other markets that impact your operations, really?

20:00Ed Ludlow:No, obviously, it's more of a wake issue. We look at oil prices really down the line. Obviously, we have carriers that can be affected by potential prices down the line. But that's something that we just keep an eye on, not something that is affecting us right now.

20:20Cameron McCord:So let's talk about how with the 100 ,000 goods you're delivering every single day, Dave, how AI and in particular lean AI as you see it, supply chains, are helping you in this situation.

20:32Ed Ludlow:Yeah, Caroline, we are essentially and we are in town for a tech conference and we're industrial being invited to a tech conference. And we feel really good about that. And we essentially operate like an industrial or tech-built company in an industrial space. We ship 37 million shipments annually. And we have 75 ,000 customers that we deal with at Robinson and relationships with hundreds of thousands of carriers. And AI has allowed us to really disrupt the industry and disrupt ourselves, by the way. And we feel good about that. It's going to the bottom line because we have real customers, real shipments and real data.

21:16Ed Ludlow:And that's allowed us to have productivity increases of 40 percent since the end of 2022. And it's just going to the bottom line. At the end of the day, we're the end user beneficiary of AI. There's a lot of talk right now, but a company like Robinson benefits from that in the industrial space.

21:37Cameron McCord:I mean, that talk, just take me back to February the 12th when you saw your stock plummet about 12 percent because there was talk that some karaoke company that's pivoted into the world of AI logistics was suddenly going to eat everyone's lunch. Dave, like how do you ground shareholders in the reality? What is it that you show that the innovation keeps on coming and that you're disrupting yourself and not allowing others to come and take that share?

22:02Ed Ludlow:Well, Caroline, I look at that as perception and reality. And we're the reality in that space. It's Robinson and not perception. You have to have real tangible things. And for us, our tangible things are our data. It's our engineers that we are a builder, not a buyer. And we have things that are going to the bottom line. I was really, really pleased that our investors, the analysts, the banks, really came out and said it's Robinson that is actually the disruptor. and as Robin said, that should be up on this news. And we agree, quite frankly.

22:40Trae Stephens:I'm trying to get a sense of what happens next for you a little bit. You know, we accept AI lowers costs. So you have to make a decision. If they're lowering your costs, do you keep that for yourself or you do something with customers? And then you look at your CapEx specifically for tech. Where's that going? You've got to keep spending through it?

22:58Ed Ludlow:Yeah, this is amazing when you think about it. First of all, AI is driving that efficiency and that it just gives us that more competitive moat that we have. It's a deeper and wider competitive moat. If you look at the numbers, being an end user AI play, a fun fact for you, our usage is up 85x. 85x, yeah. 85x, we're up on our usage, but our costs are only up 1.5x. And so we get that benefit of that end user. We don't spend a lot. Our token cost is a little less than a million dollars. And so it's really about token costs for us. The agents that we build essentially have a marginal cost of zero because we are an internal builder.

23:45Ed Ludlow:And so all of this continues to drive a competitive, deep moat for us that is super hard to replicate.

23:52Trae Stephens:That chart we're showing is what the credit I was talking about that you're getting for being early movers in AI. Okay, so two events. We have a conflict in the Middle East and we have AI with disruption. But I know that our colleagues in research in particular want to understand where we're at in the freight cycle and whether those two micro events or maybe macro events have changed the trajectory of what your industry was seeing.

24:14Ed Ludlow:Yeah, well, first of all, with 75 ,000 customers, we see a broad impact of what's going on in the world. And right now what we're seeing is with the disruption, again, this has not been the only disruption, there is some caution from customers that they have on doing that. And for us, we watch two things. You have to watch capacity, which we've seen some tightening in the cost of carriers. But then there's the demand side. And specifically, we look at housing, retail, manufacturing, and automotive. All of those have been somewhat muted, and we're really looking for those to be up and to the right.

24:52Ed Ludlow:No major green shoots on that. Certainly disruptions can affect that, but we're watching that. And at Robinson, it doesn't matter. We have a system that wins at the low, and we have a system that certainly will win at the high, and we're excited about it.

25:08Cameron McCord:And you've got more AI agents as well with Quinn. Come back and talk to us about those in the future. Dave Bosman, CEO of C.H. Robinson. Enjoy your time on the West Coast. Thank you. Now coming up, China. It bolsters its AI ambitions. More on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

25:33Cameron McCord:Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Another day of macro that affects the tech markets. Look, we're in a sixth day of conflict with the Middle East. We've also had some resilient jobs data here in the United States with jobless claims. We've got non-farm payrolls as soon as tomorrow. The market trying to digest what the reality is of the Fed being able to cut into this perhaps more inflationary environment. We're down six-tenths of a percent. Big tech erodes, but there are some single names I want you to shine a light on because we are on the upside. When you look at Broadcom, we're up almost 5 % for this name.

26:01Cameron McCord:Look, their numbers shining a light, doing better in terms of earnings, but really it's the$100 billion commitment that we're getting from the CEO, Hocktan. $100 billion in AI sales by 2027 up from just 20 billion in 2025. The market likes that. Also, the share buyback. I'm looking at Booking.com up 7%. In fact, Mizuho seeing this could be a Waterloo moment. If there are reports out there that ChatGPT is not going to have a pay-for in ChatGPT, but actually you go to ChatGPT apps to end up buying your Booking.com or other e-commerce plays, that could mean much better news in terms of disruption for companies like this, in terms of generative AI.

26:40Cameron McCord:I'm looking at JD.com up by 1.8%. First loss in four years for this giant in e-commerce, Ed. And we're talking China a little bit more now.

26:50Trae Stephens:Yeah, because overnight shares of Chinese AI chip stocks were on the rise. In its latest five-year plan draft, the Chinese government announced a pledge to speed up AI chip development. And some of those names are familiar to you, right? We've been talking about them at least in the recent quarters. Bloomberg senior tech editor Mike Shepard joins us now. You know, the idea of the Chinese government having policy support for the chip sector domestically is not new. But I guess we now put some flesh on the bones of that plan in this draft document. What's the kind of need to know on what China plans to do?

27:27Caroline Hyde:Well, we did see a little bit more flesh on the bones. And of course, this also is part of an effort really underway since 2015 to shift from low-end manufacturing to higher-end manufacturing, and especially when it comes to advanced technology. And chip making really is at the center of that. They really want to wean their dependence on U.S. designers and providers like NVIDIA and like Advanced Micro devices for those chips that would be powering artificial intelligence, which is an area that China has also, like the U.S., staked a claim in. And this is giving wing to companies like Canberra Con, like Moore's and others that have really tried to make leaps and strides in this area of AI chips.

28:15Caroline Hyde:We can look for further subsidies and further scientific support in areas to help these chip makers. And it's not just chips, though, Ed. This is an effort that also focuses on robotics. It also focuses on batteries as well and rare earths. And those are three areas where China already has a bit of a global edge. And it's even showing that it may use its advantage in those areas as potential choke points in negotiations with trading partners like the U.S.

28:48Cameron McCord:Talking of the U.S., now what China has also got leaps and bounds more of than the U.S. is energy, many would say. And the ability, therefore, to not have to pass on costs of energy to consumers when they ramp up their data centers. That's something that's front and center here in the U.S. Just want to go back to what President Trump said just yesterday, having met with some of the leaders, tech CEOs in Washington, about those energy costs. Take a listen, Mike.

29:13Caroline Hyde:Under this new agreement, big tech companies are committing to fully cover the cost of increased electricity production required for AI data centers. And that would be prices for American communities will not go up, but in many cases will actually come down and very substantially.

29:34Cameron McCord:What was committed to yesterday, Mike?

29:37Caroline Hyde:Well, it's a great question, Carol, because the commitment is really something on paper that sounds really big sounding, that they will buy or build any additional power that they need for all of those AI data centers that they are pushing as part of the artificial intelligence boom. They will also work with states and localities on rate increases that might be affected by whatever they are trying to build in the way of all that data center infrastructure. And they have also committed to fund any additional grid or other infrastructure that would be needed to support all that additional power supply.

30:15Caroline Hyde:There is a catch, though, and that is that none of this is really binding. What the company signed doesn't really have teeth in it from the federal government to actually force them to follow through on any of those pledges. It will really be up to states and the utilities to actually enforce any of that compliance on the ground, either through regulation at the state level. And we have seen that in New Jersey with the freeze on rate hikes or in the negotiations over rate increases by utilities. Now, one of the other big questions is on the state side, and that is permitting. And a lot of these companies that were present yesterday, that included Meta, Microsoft, and OpenAI, they all are interested in building their own power sources near those data centers.

31:02Caroline Hyde:But what they need is support on the state side to try to speed the permitting. And that was another question that was left open during yesterday's conversation.

31:10Trae Stephens:But it was also a central tenet of the AI action plan published last July, which Shep, you and I went through in some detail, right? We'll get to it later in the week. Bloomberg's Mike Shepard, thank you very much. Caro, plenty of other news headlines today.

31:23Cameron McCord:There it is, and it's time now for Talking Tear Gap, Ed. First up, NYSE owner, Intercontinental Exchange, is acquiring a stake in a cryptocurrency exchange operator, OKEx, in a deal that values the digital asset platform at$25 billion. Now, according to the statement seen by Bloomberg, ICE will get a seat on OKEx's board. Financial terms will not disclose. Now, shares of StubHub are plunging today after the ticket reseller posted fourth quarter results and 2026 outlook that fell short of estimates. Now, analysts say comparisons are particularly tough this year, noting the absence of one Taylor Swift tour that boosted sales in the prior period.

32:01Cameron McCord:At least two firms have downgraded the stock. And Aura Health is acquiring gesture recognition startup Double Point Technologies. CEO Tom Hale says the deal will help shape the future versions of Aura's smart rings, potentially adding controls powered by voice and hand gestures. Terms, they weren't disclosed, Ed.

32:19Trae Stephens:Okay, coming up, nominal CEO Cameron McCord and Founders Fund partner Trey Stevens joined us to talk about the startup's latest fundings, but also the effort to modernize U.S. manufacturing through software. This is Bloomberg Tech.

32:36Trae Stephens:The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand But by embedding AI across HR, IT, and procurement processes We've reduced costs by millions Slash repetitive tasks And freed thousands of hours for strategic work Now we're helping companies get smarter By putting AI where it actually pays off Deep in the work that moves the business Let's create smarter business IBM

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34:37Trae Stephens:industrial software startup nominal has raised an 80 million dollar series b extension led by founders fund that brings the company's valuation to one billion dollars at a time when the u.s is increasingly focused on modernizing and rebuilding its manufacturing capabilities cameron mccord ceo of nominal and trey stevens partner of founders fund are with us here in san francisco a lot of people say to me i think you and i've discussed this in the past as well that the the industrial sector kind of missed cloud and the cloud revolution. And if I was to try and summarize what it is you want to do, you want to build the platform that would account for that.

35:11Trae Stephens:An easier place to start would be like, why did you need to raise more funds to do that, to move more quickly? Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. We've been busy since the last 10 months when I was in the studio for our last financing. So we're building a platform for hardware testing and operations, a fully integrated solution for the modern era. Frankly, we hadn't touched the$75 million of capital that we raised earlier last year, but when Founders Fund approaches you, they approached us late last year with an offer to lead a preemptive financing. I think you take it very seriously. They have a really unique position and vantage point in the industry, particularly for companies building hardware.

35:54Trae Stephens:and I think particularly an interesting insight into the work that we've been doing with Anduril, particularly, which we announced a few weeks ago. So this is the join-up. It was Trey that phoned you, presumably? So this is the intersection of what you're working on every day, right? With Anduril as executive chair, but also like the types of companies you invest in through Founders Fund. I always note you separate those two when it comes to Anduril and Founders Fund's backing of them. But what was the thesis for you with Nominal? Why did you think that this was an important name to back?

36:26Caroline Hyde:Well, you know, there's been an explosion in enterprise SaaS. There's a literal infinite number of companies that you could bring on to help with enterprise software kind of problems inside of an organization. But any reasonable, efficient organization is going to take an approach of trying to cut as much of that out as possible to minimize the spend for the org. So there are no nice to haves. nice to have enterprise software is not good. At Anderil, we have an incredibly intense process coming from my co-founder, Matt Grimm, and our chief information officer, Tom Bosco, who are constantly trying to weed out all of the excess spend.

37:06Caroline Hyde:But in that same process, you come across software that's critical, things that you really, really need, that it's worth the money, it's worth the time and effort. Nominal is one of those products that we use inside the enterprise. We were already investors at Founders Fund, but it certainly increased the conviction when you know that an organization that I obviously work day to day very closely with was adamant that we needed to have our hands on this.

37:31Cameron McCord:Cameron, your background is fascinating. And also what's notable is how you talk about this mission critical necessity for the software that you're building at the moment. I mean, front and center is the geopolitical issue that currently confronts us. How are you seeing engineers leaning on the software at the moment? How much are you thinking about this being ever more integral?

37:51Trae Stephens:Thank you, Caroline. Yeah, I think we think of Nominal as building very serious software and building on TracePoint in an era where the last two decades saw a lot of very unserious software optimized for.com era, signups, clicks, etc. But the engineers that use Nominal and Trust it every single day, they're instrumenting hardware, they're automating very complex tasks, they're watching their hardware systems deployed in the field in operations. And so it has to work. It is the definition of mission critical, especially at a time when that's increasing and the world is moving faster and faster.

38:30Cameron McCord:Automating complex tasks. Trey, that is at the heart of a disagreement that's currently upon us with Anthropic and the Pentagon. And we know that conversations have started again in private between those two entities. But how do you think about some of the ethical confrontation that consumer-focused AI, enterprise-focused AI, has currently been confronted with with its use in the military? This is something you've had to think about first and foremost ages ago with Anderil.

38:55Caroline Hyde:Yeah, you're absolutely right. But being able to give our warfighters the capabilities that they need to be successful, not only in deterring conflict, but in winning conflict, if we would get to a point where we needed to do that, is incredibly important. And I think there's nothing more ethical than engaging in good faith with our institutions, our democratic institutions, to make sure that American companies, leading American companies, leading American technology companies are sitting alongside in partnership with those democratic institutions. So, you know, super proud to do that at Andrel.

39:32Caroline Hyde:And I know Cameron is super proud to do that at Nominal as well.

39:34Trae Stephens:I'm trying to think how we can talk about what's happening in the war in Iran in the context of what Nominal actually does. The defense sector is a part of your customer base. And what I've been trying to understand with Nominal is, is it the software that is helping to manage the asset that is the factory or the output of the factory? That's quite an interesting distinction because throughout the week we've been talking about the rundown of short-range, long-range munitions, the different technologies that are play in Iran. How would Nominal help make that process better? Yeah, really, Ed, we're trying to own the end-to-end process.

40:10Trae Stephens:So really everything from the end of a manufacturing production line through to the experimentation, R &D, sort of lab testing of those systems, and then the end deployment. And a lot of the thesis behind Nominal is those have become very siloed operations. And you gain huge efficiency, speed, scale, reliability if you actually can link sort of with a common data platform that entire process. I always say, I said this last time I was on the show, the biggest, I think, tester and validator of advanced hardware systems is the U.S. Department of War. And we're very proud to support that mission. For us, we are an engineering tool, full stop.

40:48Trae Stephens:And so we try to give those who need it the best, most modern tools to support their mission. Trey, you are the executive chair of Anderil. Could I ask simply if any Android technology has been deployed or used in Iran and what the footprint is there and also where Nominal kind of fits in in managing that process?

41:08Caroline Hyde:Yeah, I mean, we have all sorts of primarily counter air systems that are present in conflict zones. So we are actively working day to day with the department in ongoing operations. Obviously, can't give a whole lot of details beyond that. But, you know, this is kind of one of the challenges of building a defense technology company is that you don't build for the wars of yesterday or the wars of today. It takes time to integrate these things into concepts of operations. So the work that we're doing in the region is work that we've actually been doing for a long time. It's not that we just showed up, you know, in the moment of the conflict.

41:42Caroline Hyde:And I think that a lot of this goes to the test and evaluation operations is, you know, getting to preparedness so that you're not just building a technology demonstrator. but you're building something that's resilient and that is going to work in times of conflict. That requires a lot of reps, and it's much harder to do than it is with just doing a sim for software. These things have lives and death. They have human lives involved in them, and you can't afford to make mistakes. So we're super proud to partner with Nominal to make sure that we're ready. We're ready for game time when that shows up like it has in Iran.

42:18Trae Stephens:Trey, can I also ask you, Bloomberg reported this week that Anderil is looking to raise about$4 billion with Andreessen and Thrive co-leading the round. A comment on that, but also what is it that Anderil needs funding for right now? You're building in Ohio, you're expanding in California.

42:34Caroline Hyde:Yeah, I mean, you nailed it. The challenge is going from being a defense technology company where you're building thousands of things to being a defense manufacturing juggernaut where you're building tens of thousands of things. I can't think of a whole lot of companies in the last 20 years, new companies that have set up mass scale manufacturing. Maybe Tesla is the only real example. Anderil is on the path to trying to be number two in that space. And that's going to require a lot of capital. And it's going to require partnership from the department to get that off the ground, which is the department of war, which is where we are right now.

43:08Caroline Hyde:and it will require partnership with companies like Nominal as well to make sure that we are fielding capable systems and we're scaling in a way where we're delivering a functioning capability rather than just a technology demonstrator or prototype.

43:23Cameron McCord:Cameron, I referenced that you had a fascinating background. You worked at Andruil yourself. You've been an investor yourself at Lux. You've also been heading up Sail Drone as well. You were head of defense for a sail drone or autonomous maritime company. So you've been thinking about all of these questions that currently investors, builders, and the community writ large are thinking about. What was the signal you think has been sent by the Pentagon with its feud with Anthropic? And how does it make you feel building alongside the government at the moment?

43:56Trae Stephens:Yeah, I think, you know, we at Nominal, we think a lot about where AI will intersect with our technology area. And I think the unfortunate reality is in the industrial sector and the hardware world, much of the software and technology is so antiquated that it is just now, I think, becoming AI ready and AI adjacent. And we are working to help a lot of our customers operationalize that technology. I think in terms of partnerships with the Department of War, the messages that we get loud and clear are, you know, speed and scale are paramount. And Nominal plays a huge part in helping all types of companies field those systems to meet that resilient need.

44:40Cameron McCord:Cameron McCord, CEO of Nominal, and indeed Trey Stevens, partner at Founders Fund. Fascinating to have you both join. We really appreciate it. Now, coming up, Elon Musk is putting millions into the Kentucky GOP primary. How is it paying off? That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

44:59Cameron McCord:Elon Musk told a jury that his 2022 post about putting plans to buy Twitter on hold was not one of his wisest. Musk was testifying in a trial alleging he purposely drove down Twitter's share price during his negotiations to buy the company. Bloomberg's Max Trafkin joins us now. It's not the first time that Elon Musk has his social media posts sort of raked over the coals like this.

45:19Caroline Hyde:No, this is a long-running thing. and in fact often in these cases his best defense is that he tweets a lot and you know his tweets are not always taken seriously and and you know there is something to that that of course came up during the funding secured dispute of 2017 or 2018 when he threatened to buy out Tesla and then was accused of not having the money so I think it's going to be the same story we've seen over and over again which is just that he has a tendency to speak his mind let's put it mildly on Twitter in ways that sort of don't follow traditional securities norms or sometimes rules.

45:57Trae Stephens:Max, last August, you and I tried to dissect what the net result was from Elon Musk going into the White House. Your latest for Business Week is again like his financial backing of certain races, this time in Kentucky. What's the learning here? What are you writing about?

46:15Caroline Hyde:Well, so top line, Ed, I think that the Musk-Trump alliance is very much back. Now, maybe things are uneasy, a little not as kind of friendly as they were when he had, you know, constant access to the Oval Office and his child was kind of clowning around with the President of the United States. But he is certainly in the, you know, in the circle of friends. Now, this race is interesting because the candidate that Elon Musk is backing, Nate Morris, is very close to J.D. Vance. My sense is that Elon and Nate Morris do not have any pre-existing connection. This is really a J.D. Vance thing. He is kind of backing the person who is close to J.D.

46:57Caroline Hyde:Vance. And when you look at this race, it is kind of like a miniature version of the J.D. Vance thing. You have a candidate in Kentucky who is very well connected with tech donors. Nate Morris also connected to Peter Thiel. He started a tech company called Rubicon, which was the Uber of trash. but not necessarily hitting it off with voters. The polls, I'll just say, have been a little bit spotty, including after this huge infusion of money from Elon Musk, $10 million, has gone into Kentucky advertising.

47:28Cameron McCord:So do we think it's going to be effective? Have we dissected whether it was effective in the past? So far, it hasn't paid off.

47:38Caroline Hyde:But I'll say, number one, there are a lot of undecided voters. When you look at the polling, you know, between 20 and 40 percent of voters in Kentucky are still undecided. So maybe they've seen a few ads, but they haven't made up their mind. That is one potential factor. And the other potential factor, and this is huge, cannot be underestimated, is Donald Trump. A lot of these races are essentially running for Donald Trump's endorsement. That was J.D. Vance's plan. And I think that's Nate Morris' plan here. And the truth is that part of what Trump is looking at is can you raise money? And so that is something you can do with the world's richest map.

48:13Cameron McCord:You can. Max Jafkin across this for Business Week and for our show. We appreciate it. That does it for the decision of Bloomberg Tech, Ed.

48:21Trae Stephens:Yeah, check out the pod. You know where to find it. From New York City and San Francisco, this is Bloomberg Tech.

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