Nvidia Gets Into the PC Market With New Chip

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21:29Caroline Hyde:Another NVIDIA message at Computex. The next AI race is in the physical world. That brings us to Luma AI, which is launching an open research lab focused on solving generalization in robotics. Joining us now, CEO Amit Jain. We've talked quite a bit on this program about the challenge. The challenge is that in the physical world, models need to be multimodal. But I think let's start by defining the problem, generalization. That might be a newer term. What are you getting at there? Thanks for having me, first of all. Currently, pretty much all robots are trained by showing a few examples of specific tasks.

22:07So the entire field basically trains one task at a time. If you compare that to the world of language models where you train a large model and then it's able to handle a wide variety of tasks, unseen problems as well. So that is an example of generalization. And in robotics, we have this critical gap where we are just stuck in the valley of specific tasks. In order for robotics to be impactful in the world and for us to be able to just talk to them and ask them, hey, okay, do this. Then when you're done with that, go take care of that thing.

22:38Caroline Hyde:And it may be a new scenario being presented to them for the first time. For the first time. So generalization is this problem of how do we allow robots to solve generally any task. Even in a world where you have access to a lot of synthetic or virtual data, having a grounding in physics, the real physics of the world, is a principal challenge. So why is it that having an open science physical AI lab is a solution? It sounds somewhat abstract with respect. Right. So, I mean, there's two aspects to this. One, that it is open. and the second is the work that we are specifically doing to solve...

23:11Caroline Hyde:Open being, open source, you mean? Open being, open science, open source, both of those aspects. So, first of all, what the solution actually looks like from our perspective. Currently, the best solution is brute forcing this approach, which is gather data on every single task you can imagine in combination of tasks, everything humans do, from picking up cups to, you know, digging, like, you know, mines, all of these things, and gather data one piece at a time. That's a practically impossible solution. On the other hand, the teams at Luma, the work we have been doing for the past four years is in building out these general systems out of multimodal data, internet-scale multimodal data, and extracting signals from that that allows control, that allows simulation of reality, and that allows physical control.

23:55So this lab's job is to leverage that skill into physical AI. And the second aspect of that, this is open. And I think we would not be doing it any other way. And I think this is really, really significant. So if you think about what physical AI would mean for the world, it will be everywhere. It will be in our houses. These systems, robots, will be manufacturing everything we depend upon, everything we eat. They will be in our hospitals. They will be in scientific labs. They will be on our streets. Right. It's completely untenable that one or two people control this entire stack. So we want to live in a world and we want to affect a world where a small group of people can take these technologies and build them into productive systems.

24:41And that's why it is an open initiative.

24:43Caroline Hyde:This seems like more of a philosophical push of yours. The idea that we shouldn't have so much control. I mean, it's almost akin to the encyclical by the Pope. But Meta at one point was pushing open source and then it moved away from that. Just the sheer amount of money that needs to be made. How are you going to fund this? How do you commit to open science when everyone's so worried about China and geopolitical tensions? Right. I think, first of all, it has to be philosophical because it is not just a tool. This is going to be technology. I mean, AI already is immensely impactful in our world beyond what anybody imagined even two years ago.

25:20Physical AI will be deployed even faster because of the economic impact it's going to have. So a philosophical stance is absolutely necessary. But you're absolutely right, funding these systems. So what we believe, actually, is that this level of control over means of production is actually not a tenable economic situation anyway. You know, nations would not be happy with one or two companies outside their borders controlling their means of production. So we believe, actually, this is not just a philosophical stance. This is an economically sound stance. And building an ecosystem where, like, you know, chip partners, the model brain providers like Luma and deployment partners work together to build these out into systems of productive work is the right economic path.

26:07And currently, intelligence, especially LLMs, are going on the wrong path here. I mean, we've got 30 seconds.

26:13Caroline Hyde:But you've raised 900 million, Siri C. We're just seeing the output that Luma creates. But why are you the right person when you've got World Labs, for example, with Fei-Fei Li? I think just like LLMs or language models were not solved by linguists. We believe to solve physical AI, you need the systems of large-scale, multimodal data infrastructure. This is what Luma does. This is our bread and butter. And we have produced some of the best models in this space on 3D, on images, on video, taking raw internet data. This skill is, I think, what is essential to solving this problem. And that's why we think we are one of the best suited companies in the world to solve it.

26:52Caroline Hyde:Appreciate you coming on and bringing us the news. I'm at Jane of Luma AI. Have a great day. Meanwhile, coming up, we're going to dive into the impact on software and look at the stocks. And currently seeing after Jensen Huang remarks over at Computex, he was talking about how software lives on in the age of generative AI. And you're just going to be using more of it under Agentic. From New York, from San Francisco, this is Bluebeck Tech.

27:25NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang calls agentic AI useful AI and says it's going to be the next main driver of AI adoption and AI investment. He calls it the agentic age. Huang was in full salesman mode here at Computex in Taipei. NVIDIA, of course, is a dominant player in AI data centers, and Huang says its latest AI supercomputing platform, Vera Rubin, is now in full production. NVIDIA's most ambitious endeavor to date, he says. Now, NVIDIA is also launching a reboot into home computers. He wants to, quote, reinvent the PC with its new RTX Spark super chip built with Taiwan's MediaTek that will be offered in high-end laptops and desktops from the likes of Dell and Lenovo this fall.

28:17It's NVIDIA's stab at loosening the stranglehold of Intel and move the humble home computer into the agentic AI age. Oh, and you know all that talk of late about AI eliminating jobs? Well, Jensen Huang calls that notion complete nonsense. He says agentic AI is going to be a generator of GDP, and that creates jobs. Stephen Engel, Bloomberg News at Computex in Taipei.

28:47Caroline Hyde:We welcome you back to Bloomberg Tech. And look, Stephen said it all. NVIDIA once again being bullish, and the market is bullish in response. We're up more than 4 % on the name. That's the biggest move aired in a couple of weeks. We're seeing it back at$5.3 trillion. A lot of analysis out there, Bank of America, here seeing it's continually strengthening NVIDIA's systems moat. We've got Citi saying there's a number of positives, but it does have an effect on the rest of the market. Yeah, and there is a massive rally in software names. As Jensen Wong says, it's an incredible time to be a software company.

29:17Caroline Hyde:We're going to dig into it in detail soon. But basically, he's arguing the billions of AI agents will be the biggest users of software, and so the biggest customers of those companies that you see rallying on your screen. Let's get more on the impact of Nvidia's announcement. Bloomberg Intelligence highlighting the demand in the AI PC category is growing. Bloomberg Intelligence's Mandeep Singh joins us for more. So interesting because actually like in aggregate the PC market's under pressure, right Mandeep, because of the memory pricing issue, because of generations to generations of hardware out there.

29:48Caroline Hyde:Just bring the BI thesis on how you respond to the Spark super chip and what you think it will do for the AI PC category. Look, I mean, what we have seen with the AI server category You know, server used to be a low to mid-single-digit gross market, and look at what they have done, you know, on the server side and the data center side with this AI server category. And NVIDIA is much more of a household name now than it was probably a few years back. So it makes sense for them to try out, you know, whether they can have some traction on the PC side. And the specs are, you know, way different than the current crop of PCs.

30:27I mean, 132 gigabytes of DRAM. Look, these are the type of things that they were the first ones to build on the server side. It really took off. And with agentic AI, one thing we know is it requires a lot more compute across the board. So I think it's an interesting area that they're trying to get into. But I think the big picture here is they want to address physical AI, client PCs, and really create an ecosystem where they can work across the board.

31:02Caroline Hyde:Work across the board. And people then question about the role of their own work. It's interesting that, well, once again, Chanson Huang really trying to outline his view that it won't reduce jobs. Just take a listen. People talk about AI reducing jobs. Complete nonsense. it's causing more software engineers to be hired because the output is so incredible. People want to hire more software engineers. This is going to show up in our economy somehow soon. And so the first thing is useful AI has arrived. Mandy, do you align yourself that yes, more engineers will be there, so more software is used, so this is positive for the software names or have they just been so beaten up ahead of this that people are like willing to dip their toe in if Jensen says to?

31:45I mean, what we saw this earnings season with Datadog, Snowflake, MongoDB is, you know, it's hard to think of a thesis where software gets completely disintermediated and everything is built from scratch in terms of agentic AI coming up and really doing things, you know, in terms of the plumbing work and everything. No, this will be built on top of existing software. Yes, the UI will change. It will be a lot more conversational, natural language. But, you know, in terms of system of record and, you know, things that are that have been built over the years, no one is talking about that anymore.

32:24And that's where, you know, some of these companies have shown that in their numbers with ARR growth accelerating. And if Jensen is saying you would require a lot more software folks, then probably, you know, it is the right sort of thesis, at least for now, that it will be positive and not as disruptive that everyone thought, you know, a few months back when it comes to the software stocks.

32:46Caroline Hyde:Mandy, Benvidia's pitch, if you just boil it down, is that if you're an experienced software engineer, you become a manager of a team of AI agents. And then last night, his further pitch is that those AI agents, the billions and billions of them, are users of software. The agents become the customers of the software company. The BI take on that, your take on that? I mean, there will be a multiplier effect. So when you think about how any technical knowledge worker would do their jobs going forward, they will be using a lot more of these agents. And there will be one is 210 or one is 200 in terms of the multiplier effect.

33:25So from that perspective, you could see a lot more consumption of the software. Now, what that means in terms of end-to-end automation, that's the part that we still need to figure out how it's going to impact the overall employment picture. because, look, the college graduates that are passing out, they were trained in a certain way, they moved up in a certain way in terms of their skill set. That, I think, notion in terms of how the evolution took place has changed and it will change more with agentic AI.

33:56Caroline Hyde:Bloomberg Intelligences, Mandeep Singh, fascinating. Thanks for joining us. Look, Hwang's comments on the job market, they're actually echoed by NVIDIA's partner at Mediatek, The company, which is helping build that new RTX Spark super chip, well, it expects its AI data center chip revenue to multiply next year, impacting its own headcount. Now, Vince Hu is the company's corporate senior vice president, spoke to Bloomberg Steven Engel over at Computex. So as Jensen mentioned, AI is not going to kill jobs. It's actually going to create jobs. And I think one of the things we're seeing is our business is taking off on a number of fronts.

34:32and a number of new businesses like automotive, IoT, data center, and wearables. Our existing businesses are also increasing in future momentum because of the introduction of more AI capabilities to change the user experience. So actually, we're in a situation where we're not reducing the number of engineers, but actually expanding and hiring the number of engineers, and we're chasing a lot more opportunities. So I see this boating very well for us. Do you agree with what Jensen said as well today? He says AI and what they're doing is a GDP generator. I think the latest numbers that did come out of the forecast for Taiwan is almost 10 % growth this year in GDP, on top of 7 % last year.

35:18And now we're going to see potentially$1 trillion in value probably this year or next year. And I would say, without knowing the exact data, probably Taiwan is experiencing its heyday and unprecedented growth here in technology. And it's probably the center of the high-tech world here now because of the AI revolution. Most of the customers we're working today are Tier 1 hyperscalers. And so I feel very good about the fundamentals of the business we're pursuing. And I think we're pretty set, at least through the 2030 horizon.

35:56Caroline Hyde:those media techs vince hughes thinking with bloomberg steven engel at computex coming up new york tech week kicks off today tech myc ceo julie samuels joins us to discuss what happens and what's to expect carrie i'm actually looking at a new york-based company that is rallying pretty hard today ibm up almost 10 but the weird thing ed is it's all based on a nearly six month old video, it seems, of Donald Trump, President Trump, praising IBM's CEO that sent the stock surging. Over the weekend, we saw many accounts, dozens of them on X, recirculating that video. And Polymarket Money actually racked up 700 ,000 views on it.

36:34Caroline Hyde:Why now? Why the win now? It seems to be this speculative mania some are talking of in our analysis. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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39:39Caroline Hyde:New York Tech Week officially kicks off today with a record 1 ,500 events gathering thousands of founders of venture capitalists, innovators across the city. Joining us now to discuss the city's really rising status as a global tech hub, Julie Samuels, President and CEO of TechNYC. So Julie, is it a rising status? us what data can we look at to feel that AI and all the tailwinds are benefiting this city? Well, first of all, it is absolutely rising. It's booming. It's booming, of course, in a lot of tech hubs right now, but New York is absolutely feeling the benefit. We've got, we're hiring at twice the rate of San Francisco, four times the rate of Boston in our tech sector here.

40:19You know, last count, we had over 9 ,000 startups. We're raising venture year over year. It's just, I think it's doubled like 40, 50%. And that's, of course, against the backdrop of this entire AI boom that is just putting so much oxygen into the tech sector.

40:35Caroline Hyde:And is that why New York gets that oxygen? Is because, look, if it is financial industries that are going to be disrupted, well, you want to be where that industry is. If it is going to be healthcare, you want to be where that industry is. I think that's a huge piece. There's a couple things happening. Number one, of course, is that once the companies are building within sectors, they have to be here, like you just said. You need the expertise. You need the smart capital. You need not just disrupting those industries, but those industries are the clients. They're the customers. They're also going to be your mentors.

41:03That's how you build network. But what we also see at the higher level, and we're at this point that we saw in the early 2000s to early 2010s, when the big tech companies and the big platforms build their technology on the West Coast, they often come here when it's time to figure out how do you monetize it? Who's going to buy it? How are they going to use it? Those are New York questions to get answered. So I feel very great about where New York sits right now in the ecosystem.

41:31Caroline Hyde:Julie, I was going to say that a year ago, the headline probably was that if Silicon Valley and SF and the AI era where tech companies are born, they go to New York to mature. What in the last sort of 12 months of data would either reinforce that for you or do you think it isn't quite that story yet? No, I think that's very true. I think you've got two things happening in parallel that underscore that trend. First of all, the largest frontier labs are hiring and growing in New York like crazy. Open AI, Anthropic, huge new real estate deals, they're hiring here. So you see that. And then you also just see the startups just, again, they're coming here as well.

42:11But it's a slightly different flavor of startups that you get in San Francisco. And I think that's okay. You know, I think that's good for the country. In San Francisco, you get a lot of really, really hard tech. And here in New York, again, it's slightly more integrated into existing sectors. I feel very bullish about that. I think that's long-term, incredibly healthy place for our city and our state's economy to be. We actually see a lot of open source AI happening here in New York, which is interesting. We're seeing a lot of infrastructure happening here, also interesting. You know, people are really excited right now.

42:45And people want to be in New York City. I guess that is the underlying dynamic.

42:49Caroline Hyde:Well, Julie, let's finish on the experience of the highly paid tech employee, software engineer or otherwise, who has options. Part of the story in SF has been the city being a place where people want to spend their money and live alongside locality to their employer. What's the New York City pitch equivalent? Well, New York City does urbanism like no other city in the world, surely in the United States. but I would argue the entire world. And I think there's so much about the tech sector culture. So many people building in tech want to be here. They want to be here. There's functioning public transit where the density of the city lends itself to the kind of creativity and excitement and diversity that you really can only get in a city as dense as New York.

43:35And you see that, like, this is, as Caroline said, this is the first day of Tech Week. Our Tech Week is much, much bigger than San Francisco's Tech Week. And that's because here you can bounce from eventually.

43:45Caroline Hyde:Every week is Tech Week in San Francisco, I think is the point. Perhaps, perhaps. But, you know, one quick little anecdote that might be a little too cute by half, but I think it's very true. When you're in San Francisco, you meet people who work in tech, tech people who live in San Francisco. When you're in New York, you meet New Yorkers who work in tech. And that just, it's a different, it's a different dynamic. And I think for our country, you need both. I feel really good about that. I think New York just is so, it feels so optimistic right now. There's just so much building going on in the tech sector that I feel like it's a great time to be building in tech in New York.

44:21Caroline Hyde:Julie Samuels, president, CEO of TechMIC. Great to have you back on the program. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Carrie, a lot more news out there today. There is East versus West Coast. You've got to love it. But this time it's talking tech. And first up, wise shares. They're actually tumbling over in London today. The fintech giant confirmed it is answering queries from Belgian prosecutors investigating an alleged$580 million money laundering network linked to fraud and drug trafficking. Wise says the requests are a routine part of highly regulated operations. Plus, Meijuan's quarterly losses are shrinking as Beijing's regulatory warnings finally cool China's brutal e-commerce price war.

44:57Caroline Hyde:The food delivery platform posted a narrower than expected$961 million operating loss. But look, the company remains locked in that costly battle with Alibaba and JD.com. And Uber, well, it's driving deeper into the Middle East. The company is paying$100 million in cash for staking Kareem, a regional super app from the Gulf that offers food and grocery delivery and payments. But the deal accelerates Uber's rapid e-commerce expansion blitz across Europe, Middle East and Africa. Ed. OK, coming up, we're going to get back to the SpaceX IPO and what to expect. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

45:37Caroline Hyde:let's get back to the spacex ipo and get down into the nitty-gritty of the numbers new bloomberg intelligence analysis reveals spacex's some of the parts valuation could hit nearly two trillion dollars this is the company marches towards its historic wall street debut joining us now to break down the framework bloomberg intelligence is george ferguson george It's interesting that Ed has been part of that reporting team showing that, well, maybe they're offering a$1.8 trillion valuation rather than perhaps$2 trillion. But you think really it should add up to$2 trillion? Well, so I think, you know, what we wrote was that we could see the market comparables that could get it close to$2 trillion.

46:15And so today, you know, today, I think we were even seeing some of the space stocks come down as SpaceX lowered their, I don't know, their targets, their guidance, whatever you want to call that late last week. So, I mean, we see comparables that could get it there. I didn't say that was necessarily the right price. They seem pretty rich, but there's comparables. A lot of it built around the space launch business, which we saw sort of 80 to 90 times revenue.

46:43Caroline Hyde:You know, I was really surprised by the launch figure because Elon Musk himself said repeatedly a number of times in the last decade, the launch business tops out, right? There is a limit to how much money you can make putting payload into orbit. That's why the TAM number is literally everything but that. Just give me the math on how you arrived at the number. Yes, I mean, again, we looked really at market comparables. And so from a space launch perspective, Rocket Lab's in the marketplace, and it's about an 80 to 90 times revenue number on Rocket Lab's valuation. And so we think that SpaceX, if you plussed up the revenue inside the launch business for the launch they're doing internally, because they don't book that in the revenue line, it's about$11 billion of revenue.

47:31And we plugged sort of an 80 to 90 multiple on that and got about a trillion dollars in value at a launch, potentially. And then the other businesses like Starlink, I have colleagues here at Bloomberg Intelligence that are much smarter at that and did that valuation. But Starlink kind of came in 30 to 40 times revenue based on some of their comparables. It's not a lot of the value. It's another sort of$600 billion. and then the AI business came in around$400 billion and that's Mandeep Singh and there's a lot of voodoo I think inside Valiant AI companies. There's a lot of loss in there. I can't totally figure out how he does that.

48:10Caroline Hyde:Voodoo, George. And what's interesting is who's holding, say, Rocket Labs and how memefied they've become, how much their valuations are based on retail. The latest is out of our story that SpaceX is going to reserve 5 % of the shares for certain employees and friends and they're not going to perhaps be held to a lockup. How much of an issue is that? Sorry, I caught the very tail. The lockup, how much of an issue is? Well, the fact that they're not going to be held or bound to a lockup in the same way, briefly. I mean, look, I think in any IPO, there's always this challenge that as you come out of the hype of the IPO, you'll see prices sort of fall on it.

48:48And, yeah, I think, though, there's going to be a lot of hype around SpaceX. It doesn't mean I think the shares will hold the value that they're coming out of the IPO at. But I also think, again, it's a big enough player and it's in AI launch and in connectivity that I think you should see maybe some of that hangover afterwards being less of an issue. But for sure, I think you'll run into some challenges.

49:18Caroline Hyde:Bloomberg Intelligence is George Ferguson, part of the team crunching the numbers. Thank you very much. Amazon wants your next Prime order to include a banana. The company is betting that same-day delivery and Whole Foods can finally unlock online grocery shopping at scale. Blumos Mac Day joins us with the deep dive. There is no visitor more frequent to my front door than Amazon Prime. But to this point, a banana is yet to arrive. Take us inside your story. What are you getting at here? So Amazon, I think, maybe uniquely for them in their long history of trying to get groceries to your doorstep, they've just started asking, right?

49:54So if you go online today and you place the same-day order, it's very likely you're going to see a little pop-up show up near the end like, hey, do you want to add some perishables to this? How about some lettuce? How about some blueberries? That kind of thing. And so it's that sort of in-your-face prompting combined with some list of statistics on the back end that makes Amazon think they can play a bigger part in grocery.

50:13Caroline Hyde:Talk to us about how you've been walking around the store. I mean, your whole story is wonderful. It starts with Jason Buchel, I think that's how I'm pronouncing it, emerging from a big walk-in refrigerator. But how impactful is it that they have the logistics down? It has to be the one-day turnaround that makes it work. So it's really gotten them closer to customers in a way that they couldn't before. I mean, when they started Fresh a couple of decades ago, they were doing it from the suburbs. You know, a lot of produce was spoiling and stuff wasn't getting the density they needed to make the math work.

50:40You know, now suddenly with Amazon coming out of the pandemic with warehouses real close to a lot of metros, there's more ability to kind of sprinkle these sort of mini chillers in and make a small grocery distribution center perhaps near you.

50:52Caroline Hyde:And this is where the Amazon Whole Foods thesis bakes in. Bloomberg's Matt Day. It's a great story. Go read it on the Terminal and online. But meanwhile, that was it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech Ed. Yeah, don't forget to check out the podcast. You can find it on the Bloomberg Terminal and online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart. It is the very early start of what I'm sure is going to be a pretty crazy week in the world of technology. A lot to recap from New York City and from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech. When you're running a business, the best days are the ones where priorities stay on track.

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