Design Meets Neuroscience: Building the Future of Cognitive Care With NOON

0:03Dr. Julie Hwang:Welcome to the Brand Alchemist podcast, where we uncover the magic and mystery of how some of the world's most sought after and newest brands were started and continue to evolve. I'm your host, Taja Dockendorf, founder and creative director of Pulp & Wire, a CPG branding, marketing and launch agency. I'm also an investor in emerging brands and own a few of my own as well. Over the last 18 years, I have worked with, created for, and grown hundreds of companies in the CPG space, like Ryan's Snacks, Allagash Brewing, Ocean Spray, Petco, and many more. Now, here's today's episode.

0:43Dr. Julie Hwang:Hello, and welcome to the Brand Alchemist podcast. I'm your host, Taja Dockendorf, and today I'm excited to be joined by two incredible founders from Noon, Jane Wong and Dr. Julie Wong. Noon is a next generation cognitive wellness company pioneering the future of mind and mood. They're harnessing the power of neuroscience and plant science to create delicious functional products that help us nurture our greatest asset, the mind. A little bit about my guests. Jane brings 15 plus years of award-winning consumer product design experience for brands like Google, Apple, Nike, Pepsi, Walmart, and Visa.

1:18Dr. Julie Hwang:She's a sought-after mentor and visionary at the intersection of technology, culture, and well-being. Julie is a licensed naturopathic physician with experience in neurophysiology and a proven company builder who has scaled multiple high-growth businesses. She's a global leader in integrative medicine dedicated to personal wellness. Together, Jane and Julie are shaping the future of cognitive care. Let's dive into the alchemy behind Noon. I had the pleasure of meeting both of you, or actually maybe Jane, it was you that I met at Expo West. Is that correct? Where these amazing samples and I was floored because I'm not a huge Stevia fan, but I did not notice it in your gummies.

1:59Dr. Julie Hwang:And you were like, gotcha. You did such a good job, not only crafting a beautiful brand, but crafting a really beautiful formulation, which is honestly the balance between both Jane, you and Julie with design and science coming together, but into this tasty little bite that I brought home and gave to my kids who are athletes and they were, they loved it. And they're used to taking mushrooms and all the ingredients that were in there. So once I read your ingredient panel, saw how clean noon was as a gummy and the fact that you were putting in all these amazing ingredients and that it tasted really good because sometimes you'll get a gummy and you just want to spit it out because it's disgusting.

2:39Dr. Julie Hwang:And that's the end. So I'm really excited to have you both on today so we can talk about this product that you've created, where it's going and also the backstory. So let's start with the past. Jane, do you want to start? Give us a little bit of that backstory and Julie, I'll have you fill in the blanks there because I know that your relationship goes back to, I think Jane, when you said you were 12 years old.

3:02Jane Wong:Yeah, that's right. So Julie, and I have known each other for a long time, um, reconnected as adults to start noon and the way our origin stories for noon really started out of burnout, which I think a lot of people, uh, around us can resonate with, of course, during COVID, um, I think people just the vocabulary around burnout and also what that looked like just started to bubble to the surface. And I think it's great that people started to recognize the importance of cognitive wellbeing, which I think for many, many years was not really a topic. And so for us, you know, for myself personally, I had burned out probably the second time.

3:43Jane Wong:And as one does living in New York, you know, trying to be and grow your career and trying to do everything all at once. And, you know, it put me on this journey to figure out how to help myself in a more holistic way. And I had gone to the doctor previously, and they had just given me two weeks worth of steroids. That was their solution to heal my inflammation. And I just thought this was crazy. So again, it put, yeah, put me down this path to think about my roots. You know, Julie and I are both Asian and TCM, which is traditional Chinese medicine is something that is well-practiced on a day-to-day basis as food is medicine.

4:25Jane Wong:And for me, it really got me curious about, you know, a lot of the herbs and things that I used to have as a kid. And how could I bring that to the forefront of, you know, my contemporary living, which when we were younger, our parents tended to boil herbs a lot, but I just personally did not have that, you know, aptitude, I guess I would say. And so I, it really put me on this journey to figure out how I could do that, but in a form that was tasty, easy, convenient, and something that I felt like was also very powerful for me and effective.

5:00Dr. Julie Hwang:Julie, you want to add to that? I mean, yeah, I think where we started to come together was, you know, around conversations of, well, what is it that people are seeking and using? You know, for me, from a clinical side, People are coming in with burnout and other issues, you know, hormonal issues, skin issues, digestion, all these issues. And but everything really related to the mind, that sort of mind body connection. and I really enjoyed that part of, well, how can we make health and wellness and healing a lot more exciting, a lot more delightful, joyful, something that you're looking forward to as opposed to a daily chore.

5:51Dr. Julie Hwang:And so that's when we started to, yeah, just brainstorm and work on these kinds of products in our brand. Before I jump into formulations, I want to talk about the ingredients next. How long did it take you to formulate Noon?

6:07Jane Wong:I know it's probably a loaded question. Yes, I think it took us really like over a year. Some, you know, part of Noon's DNA is that we had one version of the company and we rebooted it into a second version. So we took the formulas that we had worked on for years and then remade them into the ones that you see now. So we had a base that started years ago before we actually launched. And we have a neuroscientist on our team that Christine, who has also been part of the formulation process with us. So we're taking Julie's background as a naturopathic doctor and Christine, who's a neuroscientist and putting their beautiful minds together to create these formulas.

6:56Jane Wong:And yeah, it took it took quite some time there's a lot of research um that went into them also looking at human clinical trials so again when people think about the efficacy of herbs we really sought for the the right synergies between them but also something that was science and clinically backed

7:15Dr. Julie Hwang:by studies well and i think that's gummies get a bad rap sometimes right because it's like oh it's not they're not effective it's just a candy and i think that's where i would say in the last couple of years, we're seeing the consumer pushback, but we're seeing products change and being like, actually, we can make something that's super viable and going to give you the right amount of these mushrooms and these herbs in a gummy format. So I think that we're seeing a really wonderful change. But Julie, I'd love for you to talk about the power of mushrooms, because you have these beautiful ingredients with the chill, focus and sleep.

7:49Dr. Julie Hwang:Those are the three categories of your gummies and these activated ingredients, because I was going through your website, looking at all the herbs and everything that you're putting together to really help with this burnout and cognitive health. But let's, let's talk about the ingredients. Cause honestly, that's a big part that makes you different. Yeah. I mean, I, we love mushrooms for a number of reasons and that we wanted functional mushrooms to be like a big highlight part of and a core ingredient in our formulas. One of the, one of the, there's a few advantages to using and leaning on mushrooms in this way and as like as an ingredient because they have a dual triple quadruple functions as ingredients so you'll have you know different parts of the mushroom that have different benefits but also just the phytochemical constituents will have different targets so we're able to get benefits to the nervous system and that's what people would primarily associate with cognition.

8:53Dr. Julie Hwang:And so you're seeing research on, you know, lion's mane, really, you know, famously, and those helping with like memory and cognition and focus. And that's really what's in our focus coming. Cordyceps is also there. That's a great blood flow kind of support. We have reishi and chaga and ashwagandha. And like at a high level, when you're looking at these mushrooms, in addition to the cognitive benefits, these ones may also be known for their adaptogenic benefits. So that's a class of herbs that helps the body adapt to stress. It brings your lows higher in terms of energy over the longer term and the highs lower.

9:38Dr. Julie Hwang:So it's just getting you a bit more steady, a bit more level. And in turn, that sort of stress connection is modulated. So you get like a more improved and sustained energy. And then with that, when you do that over time, you get immunity benefits and skin benefits and all these other things. So in our sleep gummy, we have a lot of looking for those synergies and like dual and triple functions in combination with the other ingredients. So mushrooms are really, you know, traditionally they've been used for thousands of years as well. They're so easy to grow. They're so sustainable. And in traditional Chinese medicine, they have a lot of balancing effects.

10:22Dr. Julie Hwang:So they'll balance the yin and the yang in the body. So we try to combine those sort of historical uses with also the neurological benefits, the cognitive benefits. So with different products coming into the market, how are you standing out in the space? I know one thing is your packaging is beautiful and you're working with, you know, cognitive wellness and neuroscientists and all of these amazing people. But what really, how are you breaking out from everyone else being like, no, we are the focused mushroom gummy that you should be taking?

10:55Jane Wong:I think there's no, there's no silver bullet answer. I think it actually is a combination of all of those things that helps us stand out. Part of it is that there are very few companies out there focusing on cognitive wellbeing. Again, like the mind being, as we call the boss of the body. There are, I would say there's only a handful of companies. So already there, we have a sort of a standout quality because again, the competition is a little bit lower as well. Part of it is brand. There are a lot of wellness companies out there. As you know, there's a lot of supplement companies as well. And so for us being a design rooted brand and also science-backed, we're trying to balance these two worlds very carefully.

11:44Jane Wong:And that's how you see us expressed brand wise. And then when we talk about our principles, which Julie coming from a deep science background and also, you know, expert herbalist and myself coming from design and innovation, having core principles that we hold to, that we hold our products to is really important, not just for the sale, but also because efficacy is almost our number one principle, it has to work. And as you said, there's a lot of skepticism around gummies just not having any effect at all. And this was one thing that we designed very intentionally into our products, into the look and feel of our products.

12:24Jane Wong:The dual layer gummy, which Julie can talk more about, was also chosen specifically for its efficacy, speed to efficacy, its capacity to actually load enough ingredients, which a lot of gummies can't have a lot. And so visually, again, that's been done on purpose to be very attractive. From an efficacy perspective, we want everyone's first time to be the best time, right? And also, again, thinking about price point, you know, once upon a time, there was premium wellness was everything, you know, people could afford the$90 subscription a month. And I think we're starting to see everything kind of come down so being more accessible was a huge principle and again that also makes us stand out when you have such a premium looking product be um more economic that's something that again puts us in a different category than many others um and then again having a great science team that is actually part of our founding team not just hired out.

13:28Jane Wong:It's really at the core of, um, what we built.

13:32Dr. Julie Hwang:I mean, if you can get cost efficacy and beauty all together in one, we're trying. Um, so I do want to talk about this dual layer gummy. I, it is the coolest thing. I don't think I've seen anyone else in the market with it. And so correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone else is doing this, cause I haven't seen it. Um, but they're, they just look like these little gems, like these little moments of like, I don't know, deliciousness in this dual layer. I mean, they're beautiful. So Julie, yeah. Explain how that came to be and honestly, why that's so important to your brand's efficacy. Well, the dual layer is a big advantage because like Jane had mentioned, you know, we really wanted to load as much as possible into the gummy and we didn't want it to degrade, which can happen.

14:25Dr. Julie Hwang:And so we sort of thought, okay, the dual layer was something that, you know, we're seeking. But the loading was really, is really where we're first to market and, you know, patent pending and everything. So we're really stuffing so much into that company that it's, and what's great about it is with the dual layer, we get enhanced bioavailability because it means that you can get sort of two layers of, or two areas of absorption. So with the chewiness, and like you said, it has had to taste good. You know, it tastes good. We were really going for a tasty gummy so that you would chew it. And then the bioactive ingredients would start to be absorbed immediately in the mouth.

15:11Dr. Julie Hwang:This can create, you know, a benefit within 20 to 30 minutes. which is much faster than waiting for absorption through the gut. And then so we have, but we also have both. Like there's also ingredients that are going to be absorbed in the gut. But by being able to have different stacks of ingredients that will be effective through mouth absorption versus gut absorption, then we were actually balancing that through our formulation. So we'll have maybe something called three, like, have you heard that we're talking about nootropic stacking? So a lot of people will use that terminology. We were able to achieve this in the dual layer by having different kinds of nootropic stacks within the, within each formula.

16:05Dr. Julie Hwang:That's so cool. And I love the idea of a stacked gummy, you know, and the delivery system, because looking, when you look at a traditional gummy, it's kind of like, oh, like, again, I don't know if it's going to give me what I want. It just feels like candy. In this case, I'm even just looking at them. You're like, all right, something's different here. Something's going on. So the guy being able to stack my gummy and have it, you know, from a chew point to a gut health, all of those pieces come together is really, it's unique. And it needed to be sugar-free. That was a really big part of this process because when you're working with stress and, you know, the mind, sugar can really, it's significantly worse, I would say, but it has a bigger, much bigger impact than any sugar substitute on the body because of it's the reward system that gets triggered.

17:01Dr. Julie Hwang:So it was really important for us to be sugar-free no matter what, you know, and that was also achievable. So the biggest challenge brands have, especially when they've got these beautiful formulas and they're doing something different and they're trying to get up to market and CPG and they're new to the space is how do you get people to know you exist and how do you get them to convert? So Jane, maybe you can speak to this as the creative brain and marketing genius behind the brand. How have you, how have you gotten in people's hands to get them to convert to buyers? Cause that's always the biggest thing.

17:35Dr. Julie Hwang:It's how do we get in front of people because that landscape changes daily?

17:38Jane Wong:Yes. And I would say we're, we're, we definitely have some good, steep competition and healthy competition here. Um, you know, one thing before, you know, before I get into that, I would say there's always the thing about not over animating. And we learned our lesson, uh, in early products where product market fit was actually something that we really needed to make sure that we could lock in. And gummies, we really honed in on the format, not because it was popular, but also because it's very shareable and it's more social. And this is also a principle of our sort of ethos that we have that, and Julie kind of touched on it, that wellness should be more accessible and socially accessible and also shareable.

18:23Jane Wong:And the gummy format for us allows people to talk about it and share it better than a tincture, better than a powder. Yeah, better than a lot of other formats, I would say from a supplement perspective. So one big thing for us has been to take what we traditionally can see as a supplement and put it into and transform and put it into a different world. So for us, allowing gummies to have a lifestyle around it is something that we're trying to create. So we've been able to do events that cross over into food, design, technology. So experientially, I see Noon as an experienced company powered by product.

19:04Jane Wong:So really what we're trying to do is help people create new rituals, develop new behaviors, and the gummy is a vehicle for that. And the fact that we have this gummy that can be put onto a martini pick and like infused in a drink, it's not we're putting it into different worlds on purpose to allow people to imagine life with supplements in a very different way. Right. And this has been part of our strategy. And I think it's very unique to us because, again, of our very specific brand positioning. So it's breaking out of supplements as like a boring ritual and putting it into something that's more social, more lifestyle driven, more fun, again, more connected to food, which is something that people have every day.

19:50Jane Wong:Right. And making it, as Julie also said, delightful. Like what we also know is that people act and buy things with emotion. You don't necessarily buy the thing that's the healthiest for you. You buy the thing that you feel most attracted to or you love because you've developed this emotional connection to it. And that aspect of consumer behavior is something that I'm really attuned to. and we wanted to really think about how can we make this a product that people understand more than just a basic supplement. So putting it in their hands, getting them to try it, the moment they have it, again, like I said, we want the first time to be the best time.

20:33Jane Wong:That is proof in itself. So we've been trying to do a lot more sampling, demos, getting into people's hands as much as possible so that they have this memory and connection to the product. and it just, they just come back.

20:48Dr. Julie Hwang:So, so I've got a question about, I love that you're building this world, right? It's, it's, it's not just a wake up in the morning, take your gummy, take your pills, take your liquids, and then go on your day. You're creating it into being like something that you look forward to something that is an opportunity, but you're creating again, those other worlds. And I love the cocktail example that you gave that it is the sharing moments. How, so with gummies, I mean, and with supplements in general, sometimes you're like, you have to take them for a month, you have to take them for a week before you start to feel the effects.

21:18Dr. Julie Hwang:With Noon, I mean, how quickly can someone start feeling the benefits of the product? Well, we have built in sort of three categories of timeframe of reaction. So the first, like I mentioned, is our fast acting, we needed to have fast action. So that can hit between 20 minutes to up to five hours. That's sort of what we, what we would call like fast, immediate reaction, but it's usually 20 to 30 minutes. You start to feel something and then you can get that sort of steady ramp up and it can last about, you know, about five hours. And then we have a set of ingredients that will hit in medium action.

22:01Dr. Julie Hwang:So that's sort of between one to three weeks. And those are those ingredients that if you take them consistently, if you take something consistently over about one to three weeks, you're going to start to see a benefit. And then we also have the long action and long acting benefits of certain ingredients. And we saw studies here that would indicate benefit if you were to take them between four and 12 weeks. And so we wanted to make sure in each of our formulas, focus, chill and sleep, that there's all sort of like two to three of these. So everything had to be fast for sure. And then we would get definitely medium and which are typically, there are other studies, but it's typically the same ingredients that would also give long, long action, long acting benefits.

22:49Dr. Julie Hwang:So that's, that's how fast you can have the benefit, but also some folks might benefit with the continued use. So, I mean, ideally looking at those ingredients, I mean, they are great for long-term use and just overall health and longevity. But you can, I guess, Jane, to your point, if you're in a social situation, you can just pop one or two gummies and just feel relaxed instantly. Or if you're having a hard time sleeping, you can share it with a friend and they're going to get those benefits in that moment versus needing to have like that chain reaction over time to have them ramp up. Exactly.

23:22Jane Wong:Yeah. And I would say that we're also dealing with a culture of instant gratification in everything, right? Not just in your supplement, but in everything in life. And we also kept this in mind where so many of the ingredients, especially the mushrooms, are more long action ingredients. You know, you're not going to feel the benefits of lion's mane on your first three uses. It's going to be long term. It takes time for your brain to have that neuro-regenerative capability and capacity. So for us, it was important to make sure that people can feel something, the desired effects almost immediately.

24:07Jane Wong:So again, that proof in the pudding type product was also very present to make sure, again, the first time they have it, they can talk about it immediately after that.

24:19Dr. Julie Hwang:Yeah. And sit around with each other being like, oh, actually I do feel relaxed or I'm going to

24:24Jane Wong:and most people tend to take things when they need them not ahead of time that that culture of holistic you know every day is not present yet so we really needed to make sure that people could actually get the relief that they're seeking from the products well there is there is something