From Addiction & ADHD -> Creating A Billion Dollar Category - Josh White, Founder Cano Water

0:00I suffer severely from ADHD. I had a severe alcohol addiction at a very young age. I picked up drink at the age of 12. By the time I got to 14, I was a full-blown alcoholic. I was drinking at school every day. I was ironically putting vodka into Evian bottles. Now they're my biggest competitor.

0:21Some of the most inspiring entrepreneurial stories start with a personal struggle, an unexpected spark or even an accident. Today I'm sitting down with Josh White, co-founder of Canna Water, a business that started out with a simple but radical idea. Why are there so many plastic bottles in the sea? Why are we drinking water from plastic when cans are infinitely recyclable? What began as an uphill battle against industry giants has now helped create a billion dollar sustainable category. But Josh's journey to becoming an entrepreneur wasn't a straight line. In this deeply personal conversation, Josh shares his struggles with growing up with ADHD and addiction, the pivotal moments that nearly broke him and how he turned his pain into purpose.

1:04We talk about what it's really like to run a fast growing challenger brand when the industry doesn't want you to win, The pressures of building something bigger than yourself and the resilience it takes to keep going when no one believes in you. And beyond the business, we get into something even more personal, fatherhood. Josh recently became a dad and we explore how that's changed him, the guilt and balance that comes with being a founder and a parent and what kind of legacy he wants to leave behind for his daughter. This is a conversation about struggle, resilience and purpose, the kind of conversation that's going to stick with me for a long time after it's over.

1:36Let's get into it.

1:41Josh White of Can of Water, welcome to Brand Growth Heroes. How are you doing? I'm very good, Fiona. I have, as you know, I've sort of lost my voice a little bit, so I might be a bit croaky for the pod, but I'm really happy to be here. We like the croaky voice, okay? That is like a good thing. Just, you know, ham it up. Ham it up. So this morning I was doing the school run, which is why I'm a little bit late, and grabbed a takeaway coffee and one of the largest cafe bakery owners on the island, food businesses on the island, was like, oh my God, can of water. It's the only water we stock. It's the only water we stock.

2:16I said, that's really interesting. Why? And she said, well, because it's totally, you know, sustainable. It's totally plastic free. We don't have anything else. I was like, oh my God, this is so important. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, you know, I think that it's really nice to hear those kinds of stories because I think, you know, when you're in the hustle and bustle, And as we mentioned before, you know, there's a lot of risk in this business, as we all know. It's just really, really nice to hear those kinds of stories. So, yeah, thank you. Made my morning. It's good, isn't it? And I always say to anyone who is a listener of the podcast, if you've made it to the Isle of Man, you've made it to the mainstream because you can imagine us like a rural county somewhere on the mainland of either Ireland or the UK and, you know, with lots of farming communities.

3:02and if you're here then you know everybody wants to eat or drink you or use you which is so well done Josh. Along with Moju which is on my local high street. Who else? Oh do you know who's being used? I have to give a shout out. Three Robins Oatmilk which is a Scottish oat milk brand which is also used on the island because they did an amazing deal with our island creamery or co-op. Yeah I mean how cool is that from like a kind of crazy value chain trying to do things differently. So over to you. You describe yourself as an accidental entrepreneur. And I am really fascinated to hear this story.

3:38Why accidental? And what is it like being an entrepreneur of a multi-million quid business when you never imagined that you were that kind of person? I assume. The reason I say accidental is because it wasn't really in my DNA. I don't think it was very much part of my plan. And I think it was just something that I didn't really ever think I'd be referred to as or that I could achieve.

4:09Welcome to Brand Growth Heroes, the leading podcast for the founders of Challenger grocery brands. I'm your host, Fiona Fitz. My 25 years at global giants such as Nestle and Challenger brands such as Goo Chocolate Puds, Chobani and Strong Roots, as well as coached over 400 scaling brands means I have the experience to ask the questions that truly matter and get you the insight that will inspire you to think differently and drive serious growth for your brand.

4:40You know, growing up, I was a very troubled youth. I didn't really know what my purpose was. What does that mean? What does troubled youth mean? What was life like? you know i i never really thought i had any skills um i was never academic i was always very creative absolutely loved music and art but you know 20 years ago that was never really like a career path for many but i suffer severely from adhd i had a severe alcohol addiction at a very young age. So when I was 12 years old, I, you know, I was very low in self-esteem, very anxious. And at that age, you don't really expect to feel that way, to be honest with you.

5:25A lot of suicidal thoughts, you know, just out of nowhere, to be honest with you, still can't really explain it. I think a lot of it comes from, you know, my family history. And yeah, I picked up drink at the age of 12 and spiraled out of control for three years, basically. Did your parents know you were drinking? I think I hid it for the first sort of year and a half. By the time I got to sort of like 14, I was a full-blown alcoholic. I was drinking at school every day. I was ironically putting vodka into Evian bottles. Now they're my biggest competitor. Or you're theirs. Or I'm theirs. Much better way of framing it.

6:04I like that. Flip the script. Totally. And I was just so unhappy. And I can't really tell you why I felt that way, but I just felt like there was a void and I needed to fill it. And alcohol was that void. You know, today I'm, you know, I haven't drunk for nearly 19 years, which is pretty crazy. 15 years completely clean off of all drugs and alcohol. And, you know, I think that that void today is filled by healthy eating, the gym, running a business, you know, family, all of these things. But business and finding a purpose was something that was of absolute immense importance for me. having a purpose in life for me someone that's an addict and someone that's got severe ADHD is so important because without that I just get so lonely okay what what does lonely feel like just very painful no sense of belief in myself or you know just just just really unhappy to be my whole childhood was was that you know my family suffered has suffered with with addiction you know my mom was an alcoholic and my sister suffered severely with eating disorders and you know sadly I had a cousin who passed away of heroin before I was even alive um so I knew that you know addiction was part of my DNA um but you know no one really understands what addiction is like until you have it uh you know we mentioned djing so djing is something that i say that djing saved my entire life i started djing at 11 years old by 16 17 i've been kicked out of school um i taught myself how to dj and by 18 i was djing clubs all over the uk and dj'd all over the world but djing for me there's something about it's weird at school in English and maths I could not concentrate because I had no interest but music I was and art I was just I was just in I was there hyper focused that old ADHD beauty and it's the same with my with my with the business you know I if I hyper focus on something and I'm completely and utterly obsessed there is no stopping me so you know I'm the CEO of the business but I'm you know at an event I'm the first person there and I'm happy to be the first person leaving you know not always anymore but you know I literally I live and breathe this business and I think that's something that is some founders worst nightmare you know they sort of they've done it and they don't want to carry on doing it and I get a lot of people saying to me like how come you're still here and it's because I just that that is the hyper focus so I do you loneliness especially as a founder I still get it but I have that sense of purpose today especially where the business you know centers around sustainability and doing good those are things that get me up every day that I don't feel the loneliness that I did as a kid where I felt like I was I was alone um I've like alone alone and no one around me I've got incredible people around me today.

9:27But it's a different kind of loneliness. You know, the loneliness today is the risk. You know, it's like there's a lot of risk and that can be lonely. But I definitely, definitely feel like I pulled myself out of a really dark, lonely place into, you know, what today is. I can't believe where we're at. So where are you at? Let's paint a picture for before we go back into how you got there, let's paint a picture for people. So how big is the business? Where are you stocked? You know, which geographies, which channels? Tell us all. The business is stocked really all over the UK. I mean, it's got to a point now where like, like you said, I didn't even know that we're on the I Live map.

10:08You know, like it's at that place where every single day without fail, people will send us pictures of, I've seen you in my hotel, minibar, I've seen you here. So the geography is huge. You know, I was in Manchester last week at a trade show. and Cano, you know, as I was walking to the station, I saw Cano in three places. It's phenomenal. And we're talking over 6 million turnover, aren't we? So 5 million turnover. Amazing. And we've probably sold nearly close to 65 million cans in the UK. I'm thrilled to introduce Brand Growth Hero's newest partner, Jolson. Jolson is a leading B Corp certified commercial law firm that specializes in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands.

10:49With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear, Graze and Pulsin, Jolson is also famous for advising the Innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola. And believe it or not, they still work with the Innocent founders at Jamjar Investments today. I'm especially impressed by how Jolson sets founders up for long-term success and by their commitment to championing female founders. Recently, I asked Jolson's managing partners, Phil Hellsmith and Paul Chappie, whether it really can make a difference from a commercial perspective if you work with a corporate lawyer who not only understands your business, but also knows you and what you're trying to achieve.

11:29The deals that you can negotiate can deliver massively different results because you've got someone that has lived and breathed that for decades alongside you. and you're often behind the scenes, so you're not actually going to be visible. It's like having kryptonite in your pocket. Exactly. That's what Jolson is. Yeah, we're kryptonite in your pocket. That's it. Thank you very much. Okay, we can finish now. Job done. I'm going to get Paul a special t-shirt with kryptonite written on it now. Yeah, maybe not in your pocket though, just kryptonite. Huge thanks to Brand Growth Heroes podcast sponsors, Jolson.

12:07Now let's get back to the show. So why cans? let's talk about that because anyone who doesn't know the business who might be listening from another place in the world are you still the only well no you're not because Evian is in Cannes now right so were you the first? In 2014 like just to go back a little bit at 18 years old I started an events company in the UK it was my first taste of business never done it before as I mentioned completely obsessed with music I've got a bit of a rule that I won't go into like you know everyone that I grew up with either went into like recruitment or property or banking.

12:43I never had any of that in me. And even if I did and forced myself, I would just get back to that lonely place. So I always said, I need to do something that I absolutely love. So it needs to be creative. It needs to be different. It needs to have, it needs to be unconventional. I love that. It gets me excited. The unconventional nature, the doing something that everyone else thinks is a bit crazy. I thrive of that. So I started an events company. It was like a dubstep and drum and bass events company for under-18s. I was at 18 years old, and it was phenomenal. We were putting 10 ,000 people into venues.

13:23And overnight, it went from being a great success to basically just dying because, unfortunately, a lot of the UK clubs shut down under-18 events. So it was my first taste of success, and it was my first taste of failure. and even though it made me really depressed and uh you know but it really gave me this sense of like i like this i need to experience that buzz again but i also got the first sort of like that first understanding of how dark and painful a failure could be but that was like the entrepreneurial spirit in me was like oh i need to find that again um 22 21 years old went to thailand with my two best friends and just came across so much plastic pollution on a on a random remote island and you know we never grew up around plastic you know pollution you know I always say that we were part of the problem uh I was that kid that would probably as a 15 year old kid throw my stuff out the car window if I'm honest with you I never cared but we just became completely completely and utterly shocked at the fact that the biggest brands in the world were allowing this to happen and you know all the questions of did they know this was happening and you know then you would sort of go down a rabbit hole where you would see these crazy environmentalists talking about it for years and they weren't being heard and I think they just shocked us and you know as someone with severe ADHD we became very interested in it I think 90 % of people would be like would just not care about it gloss over it go oh yeah that's interesting they would talk about it at family dinner oh do you remember when we saw this or you know and that and we just became obsessed and we started doing a lot of research and saw that aluminium is the most recyclable material on the planet and 75 percent of all aluminium ever produced is just still in circulation and it is quite difficult you know from an energy perspective to stick up for aluminium but you actually don't have to make as much aluminium because it's so recyclable whereas a plastic bottle just has to keep on making more and more and more and more and more and a lot of plastic doesn't come back as its intended use whereas a can can always come back as another can so this can i'm showing you on this podcast 60 days ago it could have been a red bull 60 days before that could have been something else and it's just got the most phenomenal story and we you know we've always believed that tap the tap's great and you can you know you can refill your reusable but the truth is we live in a in a generation that convenience beats all people will always forget and they're reusable and they'll end up buying a plastic bottle because it's convenient.

15:58So that market is incredibly huge and the plastic consumptions going through the roof, even though people are buying their Chili's bottles and they've got a reusable bottle, they're still buying plastic. So we always wanted to offer something that gave consumers a choice of this is the bad route and this is the better route. Did it come to you in the night, the idea of putting water in a can or what happened? The three of us were talking about it. We did some research and we saw the qualities in cans together. You know, we're three very close friends. And then the idea of why has no one ever put water in a can before kind of excited us?

16:39Because when someone comes up with an idea, let's just use Airbnb as an example. there's a million reasons why you don't want someone living in your house there's a million reasons of why you don't want to get into a stranger's car for uber but these are the things that really excite us and these are the things that really excited me personally as well i like being the person that go i was always going to be the kind of person that went into something that was unconventional because I like those kinds of problems. And I like being the kind of person that sort of sells a solution to someone that seems impossible.

17:21You know, we've got it here. I like turning can'ts into cans, you know. Very funny. I get that. I just got that joke. Took me a moment. It's one of the puns I do like. It's a good one. I think that was something that was enjoyable in the beginning. And we decided, you know, let's let's create a brand that looked really, really cool, but also very, very different to anything on the shelf. So when you think of water, you think of blue and you think of waves and, you know, Perry, who is my business partner, who I started the business with is an incredible designer and was just like, why don't we just make it black and white?

18:00It will stand out on the shelf. You know, it's this was a time when no one was doing monochrome at all. um and why don't we make the logo really really small and why don't we do everything that everyone isn't um and we've just really gravitated towards that and you know i always say in a lot of podcasts if we were conventional and if we were in the drinks industry we never would have started this because there's a hundred reasons thousands of reasons to not do it you can't see the water you can't close it you know we found we found a resealable lid um it will it taste metallicky you know can you even put water in a can um and the truth is it's really difficult to put water in a can you can't just put water in a can it can you know all these pipes that are filled filling coke and red bull and orange juice if you can imagine how delicate water is if there's one taint of another product the water will taste of red bull so we had and so many hurdles when trying to start this business um you know we were the first and we were the guinea pigs for other brands now that are doing it that it's very easy for them to fill water but it wasn't you know we had so many things go wrong but i think the hardest thing of starting this business was we were completely taken the piss out of no one believed in us no one wanted us to work you know if i think about retailers cans are nearly double a plastic bottle so they definitely didn't want us to work because they will make a lot more money selling plastic bottles and consumers just don't want anything different so when we would speak to consumers at events they would just laugh at us to our face.

19:48You know, we would, we would for the first sort of two to three years, people genuinely thought we were mental. The retailers wanted nothing to do with us. The wholesalers didn't want to take us in because they just didn't believe that this was ever going to be a thing. They thought it was a fad. What did you believe that made you continue? And why do people buy it? What, what is it that has proved everybody wrong? So I think for the first three years, and it's a circle it's a circle I've seen it in loads of different industries over the years is that you know something that might be deemed as crazy then I mean I liken it to BlackBerry versus Apple everyone had a BlackBerry everyone was obsessed with their BlackBerry phone they never ever thought that they would get rid of it and you know I was at school at the time we were all handing out our BlackBerry pins and we were all obsessed and then Apple came out and Apple looked better it felt better um and no one likes change but that one innovator that one person that was different they came into school with the with the iphone i was that person you know a bit of a you know a shepherd not a sheep took the risk i've always been the type of person that loved new music and was showing people new music and new things in culture and those people are looked at as being weird.

21:08And then all these other people start to get rid of their blackberries and move to iPhone. And over time, it might take a few years, but then people start to see, you know, that it actually makes a bit more sense. And that's sort of what's happened. It definitely needed a catalyst. Okay, so what was the catalyst? Our catalyst was David Attenborough and Sky. So, you know, people were ignoring us, people weren't listening to us, but we were planting a seed. You know, we were with sheer determination. So we were calling up hundreds of people. We were waking up at four o 'clock in the morning, handing out cans to people all across London.

21:43We were doing things on social media. We were giving cans for free to some of the biggest events. We were getting in touch with influencers that also cared about our mission, but nothing really was happening. um in 2018 we were six months away from going bankrupt we didn't have the money anymore uh we created like a little cool brand in london but no one really wanted to listen but we as i said we had planted the seed for those six months we basically gave it our absolute all we were in burnout we were just completely and utterly fucked we really really were and then on the fourth month we basically i'll never forget it we were two months away from no money um and i got literally 100 messages in one night from so many people that we'd you know we'd spoken to and that knew that we were doing this and we had made a lot of noise but essentially david attenborough had become blue planet on on bbc uh the episode was all about plastic pollution it was a very harrowing episode about a whale dying because of plastic pollution and um sky ocean rescue we're doing a lot of uh a lot of stuff and you know we've got into selfridges we've gone into whole foods but you know and these were places that cared but overnight because of that david attenborough episode you know we had gone from being the big biggest fad probably selling 200 000 cans in two and a half nearly three years to selling over 10 million cans in 2019 um and the reason was is because big ceos were were sort of calling up uh you know we're sort of managing down and saying to the to the people uh in in their sort of their teams you need to get rid of plastic we've got to look at our you know our sourcing we've got to be more sustainable the people that were saying no to us were getting a lot of pressure.

23:42They were now getting a lot of like, oh shit, I need to make a decision. I need to, you know, and they remembered these three lunatics that were calling them up, basically selling them canned water. And they were going on the same journey that we had, which was, you know, plastic's not good. Tetra Pak's really not recyclable. Glass bottles are really, really heavy. They cost a lot of money. Cans are the next best thing. And there you go. So literally the tide changed. The wave began and the tide changed.

24:16If this episode is inspiring you to think about new ways that you can drive growth for your business, don't forget to click follow or subscribe on your favourite podcast app and even leave a review. Your small gesture has a big impact on me and my business and will be truly appreciated. Now you're running this big business, how many people are on the team and who does what? so there's 12 of us um it's comprised of marketing sales ops and we are still we're very very small team we're very tight everyone does everything in all honesty like myself you know i'm also in the hustle and bustle with with everyone and you know we are a very very tight team it needs to be we are you know we're a business that you know we're doing as i said 5 million in revs, but it's still very, very difficult.

25:06You know, competition's coming in thick and fast. Costs are going through the roof. We've, you know, one of the biggest issues for any brand is, you know, when costs of goods just, you know, keep going up, especially with water, it's so tough. You know, I feel like with flavours, you can sort of hide it a little bit, you know, we're just two products. It's naked, basically. Everybody knows what a can costs and everybody knows what water costs. Exactly. So we're a very, very tight team, but we're a very, very strong team. And, you know, we are very, we're very tight when it comes to, you know, the sales and marketing and ops work very, very, very close together to make things happen.

25:44But, you know, we're in a place where the brand is growing and the business is growing, but a lot of the industry does not want us to win. We are a big problem to a lot of businesses. And I love that, you know, that's why we started the business. I mean, do you know that for definite? Because like I was talking to a founder recently who's created a sustainable part of a category that's has been historically kind of run by huge big conglomerates and he has you know had some scary messages i mean you know how do you know that you're making things difficult for the industry that they don't want you to win yeah we've had things very very similar have you um and we've also we've also had things with you know with businesses that have canned waters making it close to absolute impossible for us to to grow you know there are some stories that you know I'm sure one day will be in my in my book like I can imagine let me imagine so like you know spending ridiculous amounts of money for exclusivities in the channels or in the customers so that you cannot get a listing no matter what.

26:50Yeah, that and also undercutting us so heavily that that brand is not making any money whatsoever. You know, they're not making any money and they've taken the decision that for the next few years, we're not going to make a penny. We're going to, we're literally going to lose serious money. But you know, that's illegal in France. In France, it's illegal to sell below cost or to lose money on a food or beverage product. Yeah. We're in the UK. It's definitely, definitely happening. And that's been very, very difficult for us. You know, we're a small founder-led brand. We don't have the power of that.

27:22What we do have is we've got a phenomenal brand. These brands are not brands. They're just got a lot of power behind them. And, you know, we've felt that definitely. What is it like? We have a lot of ADHD in my family, including myself, my kids, blah, blah, blah, blah, surrounded by it. It is hard, brain fog and focus. And when you're not interested in something and people start talking and then you just switch off. And, you know, certainly why I'm not running a big business, because it's just not my forte. I'm much better at other stuff. What is it like running a business? What do you say no to?

27:54What do you say yes to? What have you learned that you're not good at? How do you manage and mitigate all of those strengths and weaknesses that come with an ADHD diagnosis? Running a business with ADHD is really, really tough. My mind is like a washing machine or a thousand voices in my head from the second I wake up. If I don't channel that or do something like it could be a morning walk, it could be an ice bath, it could be going to the gym. I didn't this morning because I've, you know, as you know, I've got a cold. Then if I don't sort of get that dopamine high, the whole day is kind of ruined for me.

28:33You've said something really interesting, actually. Does that dopamine high actually allow the clarity of thought to come through? Yeah, a little bit. I feel like the brain fog disappears a little bit. So when I go to the gym or when I go on a walk or if I do something that it could even just be listening to music. If I get that high, I feel like it's like Moses walking through the... No, because I see that with someone in my family who is taking meds like for ADHD, you know, they've been probably diagnosed through the whole system and stuff. And literally within 10 minutes of taking that medication, they are a different person from a behaviour and everything.

29:11And what you're saying, actually, and I'm thinking, you know, days when I have brain fog, which I complain about all the time, maybe I should try getting that natural dopamine high if it does provide that cut through. That's really interesting. it 100 % helps um and I think that over time I've learned that if I don't get that I won't be the best version of myself okay um what I have learned is that I'm very good when it comes to I'm one of these people that I haven't got one skill I've got a lot of skills and I'm very good at all different things but I'm not very good at one thing in can of water history I've been great at marketing I've been great at sales I've been great at ops I've been great at just being the guy that's in the warehouse building the pallets but i'm not the best at it you know a lot of founders they're the best finance people or the best marketing people the best sales people when i started this business i didn't really have any skills to run a business i've sort of just sort of self-taught myself to be completely honest with you i'd never really made a sales call by the time i started can of water i'd never done any marketing i'd never even knew anything about operations I kind of just I'm very open at learn and to learn and I've sort of become a good operator through just being eager to learn and not being a stubborn egotistical founder who thinks that they're the best at everything because I've known from a very very young age that I'm just not but I really really want to be good at things and I think that being told as a kid the whole time you're not good at this you're not good at this you're not good at this or how are you going to do this how are you going to do that and the ADHD mind being like fuck you I'm going to prove to you that mentality has enabled me to grow but the hardest thing and the thing that I am for I'm very resilient now being told you know the business isn't going to be good the brand isn't going to grow countless meetings of investors who don't believe in me or don't believe in the in the business has enabled me to become very resilient, which I think is needed as an entrepreneur.

31:19But my ADHD has 100 % given me the tools to carry on and keep going. Whereas in 10 years, I've probably seen 50 to 60 brands just, you know, they've just, they've fallen because they haven't been able to get there. And the truth is, Cano could still fall, you know, But I'm still, my mind is still set. It's still laser focused that we've got to get this done. We've got to get this done. What I'm most proud of, though, is that we've built a category from nothing. It was zero. There was no candle waters to a billion dollar category. The billion dollar category. You have created a billion dollar category.

32:00That is unbelievable. What a legacy, a sustainable one. It's why we started it. So, you know, whatever happens with candle water is irrelevant. We started this business to get people away from plastic into cans and we've made noise. And I'm, you know, that's what I'm most proud of because this business was started for planet before profit. It wasn't started to make loads of money. It was started to make noise, get people scared and get people sort of like we need to make a difference. And that's, you know, that's what I'm most proud of. I understand you recently had a baby. I have. Tell us. Is it a boy or a baby?

32:40It's a little girl. She's special. She really is. Dads and girls. That's something else, right? I'm not saying dads and boys aren't, but they're different flavours of relationships. Listen, I would have been happy with whatever I had, but a part of me did want a little girl. So tell us, what's it like being a founder with a baby? I mean, I know I've been there three times now. It's not easy. Does it change things? Yeah, I think that, you know, there's a lot of guilt there. you know I'm not there the whole time I try and be there as much as possible but I think for me balance is super important and I try you know with all the stresses around business I try to stay healthy I try and go to the gym I have to have a good balance otherwise everything falls in all honesty I think that's saying that's quite important so you know I'm very very stressed always when it comes to work and building the business that you know there are things that I need to do to keep myself sane.

33:37So, you know, I'm waking up in the morning, I might be going on a walk, I go to the gym after work. So I have to, I do have to fit in time to spend time with her, which I do, but I have to make sure that there is a balance in all aspects. So I do feel guilty at times. You know, last week I was in Manchester at a trade show. I didn't see her for two days and I really miss her. You know, I spend a lot of time on FaceTime. It's physical, isn't it? That missing, like until you've had a baby, you know, it's like I'm sure people who have dogs feel the same way I shouldn't judge you know judge is the wrong word but I shouldn't suggest that people don't feel that physical missing but like I'm going away on Wednesday I'm going to London on Wednesday till Friday and already I'm thinking about not being with the kids and more so not me I don't care about me not being with the kids and this is probably different for you because she's still so little but I'm worried about them not having me around you know I'm worried about them like their dad's amazing but but I'm worried about them being in without their mama for for three days 100 % that's the guilt yeah definitely and I think that you know she is young at the moment so I'm sure that she's not really thinking in that way but you know it's important for me to be there you know I'm very fortunate that my dad was also building a business but he was always there he always put me first so I'll always put her first and my kids first I think it's really important that they feel that but at the same time do you know what one thing that I that has always been very important to me is the line of work and what I do and what that sort of says about me for my kids I really want my kids to look up to me and what I've built that's why you know one of the things that I want to be remembered for when it comes to my you know my kids is that I focus heavily on purpose-led businesses that's something that as an entrepreneur, that's the itch that I've got now.

35:31I want everything that I contribute to the world to be purpose-led. So outside of Canna Water, I spend a lot of time helping people with ADHD and addiction. I have people coming to me every single day for help with, I have an addiction problem or I've got severe ADHD and I'm running a business. What do I do? I give so much time for free like literally just to help people it's something that I absolutely love it's something that I will do for the rest of my life and I think that's something that I really want my kids to see as well that that's something that I'm contributing in the world so not just the fact that I'm with you or being with you someone Simon Squibb who's a friend of mine he's uh you know if anyone doesn't know Simon Squibb he's a phenomenal sort of influencer on social media he once said to me your kids don't do what they say they do what you do and I really really like that I never listened to anything that my dad said ever I was such a rebel I've literally done what he's done and I've sort of become the person that he is and watched what he did and that is that that's sort of something that I really I would like my my kids to remember before is what I've brought to the world not just that I was there or I wasn't there I want them to know that when I'm not there that I'm doing something great.