Here We Flo | Building a £10M Period Care Challenger Brand

0:00Susan Allen:The pads feel like a cloud in your pants. Who doesn't love that?

0:08Tara Chandra:Today I'm talking to Tara and Susan from Here We Flow, the organic, sustainable period care brand that is going great guns across the UK and also in the US. We talk about the importance of brands showing up differently, packaging being your billboard on shelf, doing good for the planet, doing good for people, doing good for bodies, and how a movement, a feminist driven movement is behind why they decided to launch this brand.

0:38Tara Chandra:Susan Allen and Tara Chandra of Here We Flow, welcome to Brand Growth Heroes. Thank you, Fiona. It's so, it is so good to meet you in real life, digital real life.

0:51Susan Allen:Likewise, we're big fans and we're happy to be here.

0:55Tara Chandra:So here we flow, period care. You know, you guys have been around for a while, but I see you everywhere now, even in my local Tesco. That's right, right? Yeah, I'm not imagining that. So tell us how it all started, because this is, we don't usually go into massive detail on how we started stories, but this is really cool because it kind of says a lot about who you are and how you guys roll. So who's going to tell us?

1:25Susan Allen:Uh, I can go. Shoes usually knows the story down pat, but I can give it a go. Go for it. Go on. Go on. So, um, Susan and I moved to the UK about 13 years ago. We came to do our master's at the London School of Economics. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, Silicon Valley. And Susan grew up in Boston, but she was born in the Caribbean. So she's actually the British one. and you were working in New York at the time she was in social justice and I was working in the music industry and then we came over to the LSE to do our master's and there was only like six women in our course at the time so of course we became best mates and we were in the Luz one day in between classes maybe even like instead of class I'm still not sure and this was at the end of 2013.

2:18Susan Allen:So actually, it was way before we actually started the business. But Susan said, you know what, we're studying all of these business cases. It's like Toyota, United Airlines, Disney, Lego, John Deere, all of this stuff, all owned and operated by men.

2:39Tara Chandra:Welcome to Brand Growth Heroes, the leading podcast for the founders of Challenger grocery brands. I'm your host Fiona Fitz. My 25 years at global giants such as Nestle and Challenger brands such as Goo Chocolate Puds, Chobani and Strong Roots as well as coached over 400 scaling brands means I have the experience to ask the questions that truly matter and get you the insight that will inspire you to think differently and drive serious growth for your brand.

3:11Susan Allen:all the business cases would be like thomas had a problem he was thinking about his pnl and i every single one was like that and i grew up in silicon valley you know we had the paypal mafia like peter thiel elon musk all those guys that came out of it very male dominated and susan was talking about all of this and said we should start a business we should start the feminist mafia and I was really up for it I was this California hippie hipster um you know half my head shaved and talking to everyone about veganism and regenerative farming and all of that good stuff and um I had the idea for period care because at the time I was you know going to a little organic shop to buy my period care that's what I had done back in LA but in LA there's a whole foods on every single block.

4:01Susan Allen:So it wasn't as much of a stretch. And that was what we actually noticed. It was like, Hey, I'm going into my local off license or my local Tesco. And both of them will have gluten-free bread, oat milk, um, you know, natural baby wipes, organic apples, hummus, all of that stuff. But I'm still stuck with Tampax, Tena, Durex, all of that. So it seemed to be a big gap specifically around women's intimate products and that was the aha moment did started the business um based on my master's dissertation at the LSE but that wasn't until years later we did do the kitchen table thing I mean around a flat share in Hackney and and and so on so there wasn't much of a kitchen table it was yeah yeah yeah tiny butcher's block stuck into a tiny kitchen with no living space and all of that stuff so how did you actually just were you making your

4:57Tara Chandra:own products when you did that just like for concepts or what or pulling products apart or

5:03Susan Allen:no so what we what i did when um i was at lse as i was literally ringing up manufacturers all over the world um calling them emailing them um interviewing them like one of whom we actually two of whom we actually still work with today so it's really funny it paid off them taking the call from a graduate student um and that that was how i found them and then when we were doing prototypes it was susan's idea to do the ice cream tab um she said and you can tell the story um so part of it was an inside joke because despite tara's veganism and lactose intolerance she always craved ice cream on her period and we'd be on the phone and she'd forget to put me on mute and hear her like digging through the freezer in Tesco to get her Ben and Jerry's

5:59Susan Allen:and so I was when we were trying to figure out what the product would look like I'm like I will take the piss out of you for the rest of your life put the tampons in the ice cream tub and she's like that's gonna look terrible but I'll take one for the team and finish my pint and see and she did it and she's like this actually looks adorable it looks so good but the second piece was we didn't have any money when we were doing this and i'm like we're not going to be able to afford a billboard for a very long time the product needs to be a billboard on the shelf and that's actually been something that has paid dividends when we were meeting with our tesco buyer he called the the ice cream tub a trolley magnet not most most people use pads and liners sort of that's like 75 80 percent of usage but that is the thing that stops you in the aisle because it's like what is ice cream doing in the middle of the period care aisle it's so true although we actually are you know when we launched in those hack me off licenses we every time we would walk in with our ikea bags full of like the product um we always had the store owners who were always men um be like are you is this ice cream what's going on i'd be like no they're tampons They're like Tampax, but they're made from organic cotton.

7:07Susan Allen:And just try if you want to buy a case. And they'd be like, OK, I'll try it.

7:12Tara Chandra:Can I just ask, why were you selling tampons to off-licenses?

7:17Susan Allen:Because in Hackney and Islington, where we lived, the off-licenses have everything. They're like, you know, that's where you do your daily, multi-weekly shop. maybe you get on the bus to go to little or tesco or morrison's or asda um once every two weeks or so but most of the time you're just every single day you'd go to your off license is that like a convenience store like maybe convenience stores and off licenses and they'd just be selling like they'd be selling every cool new organic brand um because a lot of us started in hackney like you know pippin that was down the street for me and lots of like minor figures was up that yeah minor figures was up the street for me like you know it was kind of that vibe it was such a special place to be and actually our products say um dreamed up and designed in hackney on the bottom of it because that's such a such an important part and all the all the shops were family owned which was really important for when you get your product off the ground like you know 30 of our business is in the States now, but primarily from one retailer and, um, well, one or two, but I often say we couldn't have done this in the States because there are so few family owned shops.

8:34Susan Allen:It's very corporate dominated. And we got to probably got to around 30 stores. Um, and locally Hackney is LinkedIn way and, um, built out, um, a nice sort of community and got lots of, uh, feedback product market fit. Of course, you sold one product, like one case of product every three months, two or three months. But then it started to build and build and build. And it was really, it was really cool.

9:03Tara Chandra:Just a quick word about Brand Growth Heroes partner, Jolson. So look, as a founder, you've got loads on your plate. Fundraising, shareholders, co-founders, co-manufacturing, product, NPD, you name it. Scaling is really complex and the legal side of scaling can be really complex too. who your legal partner is really matters because it's not something we can afford to get wrong. That's why I work with Jelsen. Jelsen have worked with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Two Chicks, Graze, Costa Malika, and they've even advised the innocent founders on their sale to Coca-Cola. And they still work with them today at Jam Jar.

9:36Tara Chandra:And for me, it's not just that they're brilliant at what they do, but they're also really good people. They care about founders, they care about doing things properly, and that really matters. And they're also one of the few law firms that's both B Corp certified and a member of 1 % for the planet. Recently, I asked one of Jolson's managing partners, Phil Halesmith, to talk to us about how Jolson supports female founders on their scaling journey.

9:58Susan Allen:We're fortunate to have worked with loads of female founders who've had some very successful businesses, raised huge amounts of capital and are happy to give back. And that's part of what we're trying to do in terms of running a regular programme that supports them both here in the office, but also enabling them to actually access getting VC financing.

10:15Tara Chandra:If you'd like to find out more about Jolson's female founder club, Hercules, why not go to their website www.jolsonlaw.com or send a quick email to hello at jolsonlaw.com. You're not going to believe this, but Jolson is actually offering a free legal consultation to any founders who listen to Brand Growth Heroes podcast. And I would definitely take them up on it. You'll find a link to book now directly here in the show notes below or just drop a comment underneath the episode and I will connect you with them directly. and now let's get back to the show

10:51Tara Chandra:that's incredible so what was your um first like uh chain store was it like a group of stores or was it a retailer or how did that breakthrough happen so probably and i'll i'll take this because

11:05Susan Allen:between us like so shoes does brand and marketing and i'm more commercial p &l that kind of thing um there were some of those organic stores because then some of those convenience stores or local grocery stores or off licenses, the same family would say, oh, actually, like my cousin owns one in, you know, Bellsize Park or in, you know, Walthamstow or something. So you did sometimes get small chains. But really, the question I think you're asking is in 2018, I think, So before we had properly started, because we probably started in 2020, 2018, 2019, it's all blurring. WH Smith Travel was the first to say, here, we're going to put you in 100 stores.

11:50Susan Allen:And that was great for us. And the buyer, period care buyer at WH Smith had just come from Tesco. And she said, I want to launch you because otherwise I know that in a year or two, I'm going to be knocking at your door trying to launch you. It's very kind of her. and then at the end of 2019 we did a small launch with boots I think it was like 30 stores and it turned into like 400 stores a couple months later in the middle of COVID and then everything shut up.

12:23Tara Chandra:Can I ask was that when you were on like a special end for new products and boots that in Femcare was there like a because I remember buying you as it was you were being highlighted as a brand they were supporting. Oh, the sustainable toiletries. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I bought you because of that special end. And I brought it home because I thought it was such fabulous packaging. I loved not only the fact that it was like an ice cream tub, a mini ice cream tub, but there was gold on it, wasn't there?

12:50Susan Allen:You're talking about a non-applicator tab on. Oh, RIP gold tub, gold lid.

12:56Tara Chandra:So, see, I remember that. And I don't, you know, I don't remember much, to be honest. But that was just a wonderful experience. And I had it on my shelf behind because that was the time just for lockdown when I then started what used to be the growth strategy program before it became Brand Growth Heroes Accelerator and then the mini MBA. And it was on all my early videos have that tub on my bookshelf behind me when I'm recording all the videos for all of the works. Like so hundreds of founders have been through that program and have seen that on all the videos on the shelf because it was an example of fabulous packaging.

13:28Tara Chandra:and we do a lot on category redesign and Blue Ocean and how you can borrow certain formats from different categories to turn things on their head. And, you know, like for us, we used to discuss it by saying the idea of ice cream and treating yourself and doing something pretty for yourself was so different in that category for women, you know, whereas before it was as functional and kind of, it was something that you hid. We used to get told in school, like, how to hide the tampon up your sleeve. well first of all in my school you weren't allowed to use tampons it was like

14:00Susan Allen:it was it was oh this is Irish it wasn't so much they weren't that bad but it was more

14:06Tara Chandra:no but a lot of diasporas I know have that story yeah no no I get that that there was but my school wasn't particularly that bad but they didn't think it was very ladylike you know but they said if you absolutely have to then you know you this is how you hold it and you put it up your sleeve you know uh it was that kind of a shame to be ashamed you know um whereas I bought it for my daughter as well because I was like here we flow you know on your desk with your pencils and it's really pretty it's really pretty so okay so so you got in and obviously then you got your 400 stores and things have been flying since then so how national are you now so we are full chain

14:43Susan Allen:with boots we we've had a phenomenal relationship and growth journey with boots um we've been full with them for a few years um one of their category leaders um they've been just brilliant partners in this in terms of really caring about innovation and they took a big risk on us launching us and they had other another organic brand i think at the time and they've had they have others but they've been really um great about working with us on where we see innovation coming what we want to do next how we want to grow uh the way we want to show up in stores so they were one of the first retailers that let us do the amount of education that we wanted to do on the shelf which before challenger brands hadn't done and even the big ones did it more around promotion yeah and for us you know we wanted to talk to people about not what was just in the products but also you know how heavy is your flow and what do you need and so on and so that was great to work with boots on um with tesco it's something like up to a thousand stores we've got a good number of products with tesco over 10 products with tesco so it depends on the product um the core ones are in 802 000 stores um sainsbury's um is a couple hundred stores because we launched with them and they haven't had a range review yet but it is coming so we're very excited to go with them yeah and then as that we launched with last year in a smaller tier of stores but um we've had a fantastic experience with asda as well so we're looking forward to to growing with them again um yeah and i'd say we're also with super drug and we're full chain with holland and barrett um for i think holland and barrett and boots launched around the same time and they've both had we've had great journeys with them i mean um holland and barrett isn't a period care destination but it is a better better for you better for the planet yeah yeah destination so um great for discovery I think I hear that a lot from people saying oh yeah I was there getting my my supplements and I saw this and just bought it and I love it so yeah so Susan talk to us about

16:55Tara Chandra:what the brand stands for and I see on your website which is beautiful by the way that you do so much good work you know you have so many collaborations with different um initiatives and charities. Talk to us about what you're trying, what's the change you guys are trying to make in the world?

17:10Susan Allen:So our vision is to create a world where people are crazy confident in their messy moments instead of feeling shame and stigma. So this whole hiding the tampon up the sleeve thing is very anti-flow. Like we don't, we don't support that. We, and that was part of the bright pink. Like I don't think either of us really cared about bright pink as a color before, but it was about making it bright and trying to bring sunshine and, and a bit of like levity into something that is not always enjoyable and, and is a lot about sort of being hidden. And it's, it's natural things. It's what our bodies do. We should be able to talk about it.

17:51Susan Allen:And for us, I think it sort of connecting it to a health message. I think people can say, Oh, It's not a big deal if you're hiding your tampon or your pad up your sleeve. But how we've seen that manifest is that people then, they don't ever talk to their, you don't feel comfortable talking about their periods. And they're experiencing all these symptoms and pain. And then it's like you have endometriosis or you have PCOS. And then you get into the GP's office and you don't feel comfortable sort of advocating for yourself. Because women's health is so under research. Your GP might not know what's going on with you.

18:28Susan Allen:And so you might need to ask for a second or third opinion to really get support. So there is this wider message and impact that we're trying to have as well. Our sort of key demographic, who we lovingly call our gen genio, sort of 18 to 34, they are much more outspoken on these things. They're chronically online. And so we talk to them through memes or through working with other social gynees online, just making sure that we're educating with them in ways with information that they can trust, because there's lots of things floating around on TikTok and Instagram that are incorrect. But it's a great way to sort of engage and build this community where we're talking about what's happening with our bodies and starting to normalize and really change social norms around.

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19:59Tara Chandra:And what is the difference between your products and the kind of, you know, incumbent historic products in the category in terms of from a health perspective or better for you or better for the planet perspective?

20:14Susan Allen:so I think about it in three buckets so I think I think about brand I think about communications and I think about materials so from a brand perspective Susan wanted us to create a brand that was like your best mate was talking to you and the voice we figured out came about naturally I mean first we we did the copywriting ourselves did the design ourselves we taught ourselves how to do it and did it um and then afterwards realize oh that's it's funny feminist and fierce and those are qualities that we really love in women and the women in our lives like our aunties our moms our sisters all of them are funny in their own way even if it's like a wry comment or an appreciation of humor um if you come from a uh asian or a caribbean background you're probably very used to your family throwing a lot of shade at you and that's we had definitely experienced a lot of that from the women in our lives and so that's also where that humor came from but also the feminist side because so many strong women in both of our families that really moved our families forward and looked after everything um so funny feminist fierce on the brand tone of voice and then the product strategy being affordable accessible adorable and that affordable is one that we're always working on um with the materials that's always a challenge but we're really committed to trying to make it affordable and then um accessible emotionally accessible and then also physically accessible and then adorable um so i'd say the brand that was like the brand personality and then and that's really different like just having a brand talk to you like your sister like your best mate with a sense of humor um real talk all of that like big incumbent brands they can't really do it, right?

22:08Susan Allen:It would be, they'd have to hire an agency to do it for them, which I'm not trying to throw shade at them now, but that's just how it works, right? Versus somebody like an actual user being like, this is my brand and I'm going to bring that to life. So that was one big change. And then communication. So being digitally native, really important. The Toto voice, really important. And social first, she's and her team do an amazing job with how we communicate, whether it's on socials or offline. Like when we did our vagina, finally, somebody said it on a billboard. We did a fly posting with that in Shoreditch like four years ago, I think.

22:48Susan Allen:And it was the first time anyone had put vagina or vulva on like the streets. We did it in Hackney and Shoreditch and all of that, obviously. Where else would you do it? But it was it was really good. in like our No More Period Drama, No More Period Dramas advert, where we did a spoof on Bridgerton. All of that falls into the communication and marries up with the brand. Like talk about how you talk to them. And then the last one is material. So we use organic cotton. Our top sheets on our pads and liners is a mix of bamboo viscose derived from organic bamboo and non-GMO corn fiber. So we really focus on plants over petroleum plastics, wherever possible i think all period care organic or not contains um some of those like petroleum plastics um but they might be compostable bioplastics it's getting a bit a bit deep it gets a bit deep but um essentially like it to work to have a back sheet to have a wrapper