Mid-Day Squares & Perfect Ted LIVE Part 2 "How to Build a Brand Out-Loud"

22:56Mighty Slice. It's the cheesecakes. The protein cheesecakes. I showed Jake your stuff. Yeah, hot packaging and cool box. You'd buy it, wouldn't you? You're going to find it tomorrow. Yeah, I'll post that on Instagram. That's Instagrammable. Good. I'm really fascinated by the placement to see the difference between Canada when it wasn't this category. He has to educate the consumers and China probably similar with like the energy drink space as well, compared to like the US where you got like a perfect last version, like that's a category for investing. Like what were the key leaders that you guys found moving the dial the most when you were going into Canada and now like what was that education that could consume if it didn't work to do this?

23:39Because similar issue going on here. Hype. It's going to sound weird, but our first retailer was, I don't know about you guys, but it was a local bagel shop. It was an individual that I knew. I asked him if he could take it on free, consignment I think it's called. And when he said yes, my team did everything in its power to drive the consumer there. So what we did is we posted on our personal accounts, which we had 100 followers each maybe. I asked family and friends, my text groups have like 10, 15 people, show up, go get it. And what it did was within the first hour and a half, it sold out.

24:13And he was like, what the hell? Did it again, same thing, sold out again, told that story. Next thing you know, I had salad bars, juice bars, coffee shops, we need your product. Boom, created that momentum. So what ended up happening was when we did those local spots, it was in a fridge, right? And it was next to beverages and stuff like that. So we started to get like, yes, it's a consumer that's on the go. So then when we pitched the retailers that were actually grocery stores, we say, guys, it needs to be in an on the go region because it was new to them. They're like, what the hell is a refrigerated chocolate bar?

24:42It's weird. And I was like, no guys, look how well it's doing X, Y, Z. And we're going to now drive tons of influencers, tons of media to your thing. And everyone wants to be on social media today. Most people, at least in businesses do. So giving them that was something that at least helped us get the foot in the door. But once you're in, you got to be very careful because once your buyer set on your product, he or she may not move your product. Even if it means more optimal in a different location, you might have hell and back to get that there because it's their dollars now versus somebody else's dollars.

25:10And we're still in a major retail, I'm not going to say their name, that is a huge retail partner of ours that could be at least double the money, double, I'm talking about in millions, by simply moving it from where it is, next to cottage cheese makes no sense, chocolate bar cottage cheese, next to a grab and go area, and the buyer doesn't want to give it up. And guess what? You're in, they're not going to fight their own teams for that. So be very cautious where you go into and try to understand where you learn as a consumer where you'd want to buy this product. your cakes in my opinion should be chilled next to the desserts but again you do like something like stacy's pita chips they'd put next to hummus so you could change that and put next to cottage cheese maybe interesting we could switch cottage cheese would be perfect i know what you guys did by the way emily yesterday i was at a female founders event up in edinburgh and there was hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women there okay and all the female founders like organizations were present and we came out for break time and there was nothing to eat other than borders you know those borders biscuits in the little sachets which are nice but you know these were like women who care about they're women of a certain age who care about how they look so nobody was eating the borders biscuits and then lunch came and it was some sandwiches and there was nothing for dessert and then there was an afternoon thing and I thought Jesus if there were mighty slice slices here available through the caterers for but every single female founders event there are so many of them i mean that's where merce has just gone that could be good yeah you should go after that just but in terms of sampling even if it was break even you know as well as your gym goer i think you know for people like me that's a thing i think it's also okay to not break even too i think that it's very easy to get caught into i can't do this because it costs a lot and yes it does like and you know we you know we burnt money for a significant period time.

27:01And we are venture funded. I know you asked before. We've been venture funded significantly, thank God, and debt funded by our government to build our facility. But in order for us to grow, you need to sometimes spend the money and try things. And if you don't try, you will never know. Wayne Gretzky, I don't know if you guys know who that is, but yeah, a great hall of famer, hockey player, always said, I think something on the quotes, paraphrase, 99 % of the shots you don't take will never hit. It'll never go in. It's impossible. So I think that sometimes it's important to fail or to try and spend in order to get it going.

27:33Our Costco roadshow, we didn't make money, but it got us into Costco, which led to a huge success of new team members, of new marketing spend that we were able to spend on, growth manufacturing efficiencies. Again, it was a very heavy cost that we were unsure of because it was expensive, 12 days, full-time staff, samples for free almost. You're selling it at a very interesting cost. So I think that sometimes if you have a gut feeling that says you shouldn't break even on something maybe it's a catering or an airplane that could take your stuff at a low cost the exposure could lead to a massive opportunity so i see it as marketing in your marketing budget learn how to train that i did you when you were putting together your pnls back in the early days when you had to start doing that did you put a line in for product samples yo i i am the worst pnl person my cfo which is your business my cfo can't look at me i love her dearly but she she's like she sent me a message before coming here you went over budget did you know i said yeah yeah but I'll get it back some other way.

28:29You know, don't worry. No, she's like, that's not how things work here anymore. I'm like, okay. I'm like, I'll sell something to get it. But long story short, I actually studied to be an actuary. So I don't know if anyone knows actuary. That's incredible. So you actually have that training. But I'm brutal at math, which is what's weird. But you got the degree. I do. Well, hold on. Failed miserably. Did it because, we talked about authenticity before, but I did it to prove to people that I was academically smart. And that's what killed me during that process. but I ended up becoming an entrepreneur because I couldn't get a job in it.

28:59So it was kind of, it led me to midday squares because I was unable to get the job. But I think that like from a P &L perspective today, yes, we have a line item that says product giveaway. And what that is, is - So important to everyone. What actually came to you guys here is a product giveaway. So important having that in your budget. You have to have it. Take it into effect. And for me, like it's gone up every year, obviously, but even if you send it to a random person, you don't know what that does to that person. It could be a gift that someone takes emotionally and says, I want to go give this to now the buyer at British Airways to put your product.

29:32You don't know. We got into Whole Foods Canada because a customer bought our product and was like, I know the buyer. I'm going to go give it to this person. I gave that person merchandise like crazy, even if it costs me so much money, because at the end of the day, they went on and did me a favor, right? So I think that - Especially if it's chilled, right? And you've got like 30 days life and you know that the retailer or the customer is not going to take it under 10 days and it's optimal, still optimal until six. You've got between 10 and six. You've got to have your supply chain exec who's working with your marketing exec.

30:02Okay, what are we going to do with that product this month to make sure that that product between 10 and six that's covered by that line and the P &L is going somewhere where it's going to create new business opportunities? And don't always think ROI. I think that the moment you think ROI all the time is when you take away serendipity at that point. The trips cost$50 ,000 one year. That's a lot of money for travel for one person. And what I responded back to them was when they said that's a lot of money, I said, you're right. But the problem with that is I said, the ROI is not instant. It's not short term.

30:38It's happening in long term. And then when I reminded them that the reason why we got our venture fund was because of one of those trips, that saved the company and end up allowing us to grow. But that's what I'm trying to say is we are part of a society that is so short-term in thinking. We think in quarterlies, unfortunately, like even public companies. You know how hard it is to report quarterly on a success story or anything like that? It's very difficult. So instead of looking at it from that, zoom out. Zoom out. And if you create a culture in your company of zooming out, I promise you, you will do things that you swing on that will have a way higher return down the line or a huge failure.

31:09But at least you give it a chance rather than a slow death the other way, in my opinion. Can I just say you are the one of the most articulate guests we've ever had on the show. Like how articulate is this guy in terms of, no, but it's to do with the way in which you, the clarity of his thinking and the way he puts it out there. I just think it's absolutely fucking amazing. I really do. Seriously, it's such a talent because it's something that's, no, most people find it really, but most people find it really difficult and it's a real superpower.

31:41If this episode is inspiring you to think about new ways that you can drive growth for your business, don't forget to click follow or subscribe on your favourite podcast app and even leave a review. Your small gesture has a big impact on me and my business and will be truly appreciated. Any more questions? What percentage of P &L should we allocate it to giveaways? How do you use it, matter of fact? We spend, percentage-wise, I don't know the number, but I'll give you perspective. For me, I have a, every month, so just Jake has, It's called Rainmaker. We have Rainmakers in here. I have$1 ,500 per month to spend on just giveaways.

32:20Sales team has a lot more on both US and Canada. And then there's customer experience that has way more as well because of like melted bars and things like that. So it's actually a significant dollar value. I would say it's well over the year, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now, again, it's critical because, for example, if you're a customer that ordered it, you're were in Phoenix and it's sunny, 40 degrees Celsius, 100 plus degrees, and you get chocolates and they get to your door and they're completely melted and you spend$110 on these two boxes or three boxes, you'd be livid. And I understand why.

32:54So as to resend it, we got to now send it again, express, ice packs, everything. It's costly, right? But if I didn't have it, I lost you for good. And I don't know what else you can do. You can now tell other people who maybe are, again, a buyer of a retail store that they didn't even care, boom, lost that account potentially, right? So I think that you need to have a significant amount. At the beginning, obviously be cautious. Don't get out of control. It's very easy to send free products to people and free events, charities. It's always good to do charity. But if it takes you into a danger zone in your business, you can be very careful.

33:23Yeah, tone it down. So we've toned it down in certain things. But my family buys my – they pay for my product. We pay for our product. My wife's father likes to try to get free stuff. Golf tournaments. You ever hear that one? Golf tournaments. So no, but sometimes you've got to give it a cost. And, like, you know, I think that also we have a 60-person team that, you know, they've got to be employed, right? So it's got to be a fine balance, but definitely a significant percentage as you continue to grow, 100%, especially in new countries. Steve. There's a question on people. It's to both of you, Sharn and J.Q.

33:59So Sharn and Numa, you know, obviously in Bali, which is such a special place, I probably don't know if anyone needs a Sharn. Actually, you know who said that? It wasn't me. It was Richard Reed from Innocent who said, everybody needs a Shani. Everybody needs Steve as well. Yay! So a question for both of you. So what gave you the conviction at Perfect Ed three years ago, because no one would know, you don't have a question for me, what gave you the conviction around the category, the brand and the product, so onto join, but also for the founders in the room and also listening? Most of them would be making important decisions on that next item, so that next important item.

34:37So what gave the founders, there's conviction on you and I guess the same questions you asked what gives you the conviction in people like yours so is it like how do you make decisions about key hires what is it why did you buy into it so the way that I kind of look at whether I want to work for a challenger brand I've worked for challenger brands and been enjoying for seven years now is I won't actually look at the the product or the branding or the marketing I look at the founders so you'll hear a lot of investors will say the same thing. So they'll say, when I'm looking at whether I want to invest in a business, I'm not actually looking at the product or the branding, I'm looking at who are the people behind the business.

35:17And I see it in exactly the same way. Because for me, I'm investing my most valuable resource, which is my time, my energy into these people. So when I met with Teddy Marissa Leva on a Saturday morning, and I had no idea why they wanted to meet me so urgently and what was going on I said to them I believe you're going to be the next innocent drinks and like regardless of my decision of whether I join or not I know that this business will be successful because of you not because of the product I genuinely believe that they could sell ice to Eskimos and like they they could sell anything and it would be super successful because of them in terms of um and you didn't join for a while did you I I know I then this is Teddy likes to say this a lot so I did say no not because I didn't believe in the business I said it's not a no it's not right now because I just joined another startup and I'd only been there she'd been made country manager from wholesale exec to country manager it was a massive leap absolutely well coached me through the whole thing so thank you so much give that up right you couldn't give that up being a country manager all of a sudden so it wasn't right you had to give that a go i had to give it a go they they take in a chance on me and vice versa i'm actually meeting with my ex-boss from that company next week yeah we talk regularly and she she's amazing and she sent me samples last week of the bars she's amazing um so so yeah i actually said no um teddy didn't talk to me for a couple of weeks um marissa said you know i really believe in like what will be will be and that the universe will will find a way to make it work and yeah three months later I was speaking to them again and they said when you're going to stop being stupid and and accept this job offer and I said okay well let's maybe talk and then yeah join the business it'll be my third anniversary on the 21st I think of September so it's about the people 100 % because do you do you look up to these people that do you want to be stuck in the mud with these people do you believe in their ability to get you out of the mud and we like will you follow these people into a burning building and I would follow them into a burning building every single day regularly.

37:28That's amazing what about you how do you make decisions about people you're recruiting? Strength versus weakness so what we're not good at we hired that people were great at I think that you know as a founder you want to do everything and then you start to realize you're you're pretty shit at a lot of things for me I was the CMO when I started the company and that And I stepped down and I became the rainmaker because that's what I was good at, making friends. That is so clever. Oh, my God. You basically took everything that you're good at and gave it a late, gave it a you named it, framed it and claimed it.

38:00A hundred percent. Put my, you know, and then they like, you know, the Entrepreneur Mag did a whole article on stepping down as CMO. And I think it's an important article because a lot of times we stay in things because we think we have to or we think that, you know, our ego is telling us to. And the best freedom I've had in my life was the moment I said to myself, you know, I'm not good at this I'm a horrible manager and even though I own this third of this company I don't need to be a manager. I could be managed I want to be managed and that was the best decision I made and I realized that every hire We've made is someone that's really good at what we're not good at or what the our team might not be great at And they fill that position and it continues to grow And the second part of that is other than skill set is is do they believe in the vision and culture that we're trying to create for us?

38:43We're unapologetic. We have cameras rolling all the time. Do people like that? Number one, if you don't like that, it's going to be really uncomfortable for you to join Midday Square. So we're very transparent on that. And then I think the most important thing is all of you have access to this. Every single individual has access to this. You know when someone's good. Your gut will tell you the direct way is, do you like him or her? Is this person a good feeling or not? And 90 % of the time, that's right. And it's subconscious. I don't know what it is, or maybe it's conscious. But every time we didn't follow our gut and we went for like titles and like stats from previous jobs that they had, wrong hire.

39:21Every time we followed the gut, they've still built us today. So I think that that's the three things we look for is values and alignment on that is gut feeling. And then their skill sets are stronger and what we're not really good at. They fill that void. But it's probably worth saying, I think, that for anyone who's built a business to 10 million, let's say, you know, which hopefully a lot of you are doing or are going to get there, you will make mistakes, particularly with your first senior hires, and they will be horrible mistakes. And you will have to unpick something where you've brought someone in who you thought has got amazing experience at commercial director level, and they'll be more senior than you in the way you look at them, and they have more experience.

40:03Little by little, you go, oh, God, I wasn't expecting that. Oh, God, I could have done that better myself. And oh, God, I don't think, and it'll all be compounding until you have to. pull the plug. Just know that it happens to everybody. And secondly, know that if they've got a long enough trial period, right? So at that level, you want six months, that you've got to be on it. You can't wait until five months and 29 days to make the decision. You need to be thinking about it all the way through and almost going into it knowing this may not work and that's okay because it happens to everybody. We all make that mistake up front and you don't make it a second time because you realize that people don't change.

40:39I don't believe that people change. I think if you give people feedback the first time around and they act really quickly on it and you see, okay, they really got that. They totally changed course. They got it. They moved and it's all okay, fine. But if they don't course correct and it's happened the second time and the third time, it's pretty much dead in the water and it's just a matter of time. you'll know when it fails you'll you'll do not wait it sounds morbid but like you have a feeling fire um you know you it's more hurting it will hurt your business more to hold somebody that's not meant to be there when they know it and you know it and you're just waiting for something else to happen it it happens to multiple businesses and you see it and it could cause a lot of wreckage within a business if someone's not aligned and the company's not aligned it could cause other teammates to be like confused and and then you're not protecting those other teammates who you promise to protect by simply keeping someone that's not meant to be there there for the sake of fear that something will happen if you fire and I think that our culture has got into this way and I think that we need to make sure that we build a company based on a great zone for people a great environment for people but also meritocracy is a big thing and working hard is critical and we've made mistakes tremendous mistakes and we're still far from perfect but we've gotten better at hiring and better at firing and that's changed the business tremendously some more questions paul you've got to have a question come on so can i just tell you who paul is i told you i told you about paul paul was one of the guys who sold innocent coke oh cool so like this is like what So I guess it's an exit question, which is, what are the key motives, what are the key things that are going to excite you about your exit?

42:26Obviously, money is the easy one. And you could get moral, moralistic about who you want to sell to. It's going to be the right part. But genuinely, what do you think is going to excite you about that buyer, if it ever comes? I think from a personal mission standpoint, I think at first, when I started this business, my ex-girlfriend broke up with me after four and a half years, and I was devastated. I was heartbroken, which heartbreak is a great thing. If you've been through it, it leads to greater things. I also closed my other business. I went bankrupt on my other business. I was in a really big depression, actually, and I needed something to keep me busy.

43:03My partners today came up to me and said, let's do this together. I was like, okay, I can't even try the product, so let's just do it because I like making noise. I ended up being my wife also. It was one of the best things in my life. But I think that the vision then for me was, can we sell this for hundreds of millions, not billion? And let's drive with that. And then as time went on, I started to realize the pain of building a business, which I'm sure you know and everyone in this room knows, is it needs to be more than money because money is definitely a tool that helps with a lot of things or can help with a lot of things.

43:34But then it's not enough to deal with that amount of pressure and pain over a significant period of time and relationships that fall apart, sacrifice. So I started to realize what really drives me? And it's not selling the company of midday squares, but for me, it's about inspiring. It's going to sound really cheesy, but it's truthful. And my wife will defend me on this. It's about inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs to be bold and take risks. And what I've learned is sharing your story is one of the most powerful things that any individual, whether you're an entrepreneur or a professional, can do.

44:01And I want to show I want to show everyone specifically in Canada because that's where I'm from that you can do anything you want if you truly believe delusionally and you share your story because we are building a chocolate company against all odds in a space that is so saturated in a space where it's not even meant to work it's almost impossible which you know businesses like CPG are almost impossible but we did it our way we didn't do it a traditional path we decided to stay unapologetic share therapy sessions, do music videos, get naked on the highway and do crazy shit, show up to the first Wall Street meeting with my nipples out, blasting music in an awkward room and they were confused.

44:38It was one of the best moments of my life because it was hilarious. But if I could show that we could win in whatever winning has defined us, then I've done everything I needed to do, whether that's an exit or not. Now if we do exit, the partner I want is just somebody that believes in storytelling and believes in the innovation that we create. That being said, once I pass this business on, whoever takes it, it's now their control, right? And as much as you could do on the outskirts, you could promote, do whatever you want. But at the end of the day, once you pass on the keys, you pass on the keys.

45:05So do we really want to pass on the keys is the big question. The issue will be if you have to pass on the keys but stay on for a certain period of time. But like, honestly, I love making noise. I'm a rainmaker, so I like to make friends. If I can continue making friends for as long as we can, 100%. If I can do things like this, this helps midday squares, but it also helps me make new friends like yourself, who I didn't know prior, right? Or we didn't meet physically prior. So that's me being on my journey. And I don't know if Midday Squares will be 10 chapters of my book or it'll be one chapter or it could be the whole book.

45:34I'm okay with all of them. I think that's the key. And I'm also okay if it fails. And I think that this sounds morbid, but I've accepted that this could go bust and fail. And I'm okay with that because of the experience that I've had. And I know that I could go achieve other things because of what I learned. But I'm still going for the big outcome, you know? But knowing that failure is possible has helped me with freedom on this journey. Hi, I'm Xavier from Casino and Lisa with a food brand. If I asked you, Jay, what do you sell, what would you say? Boldness. Boldness. I think that that's what I'm striving to sell.

46:13I think that at the end of the day, most things are commodities. Yes, we manufacture something that's very difficult to manufacture, But some of these bigger corps can figure out with R &D and food science and they can figure it out. What they can't figure out is how we make our consumers feel. That's not something you can copy. Your DNA and your story is something that's completely unique to you or your brand. God, that's so clever. Nothing else is unique, right? Because at the end of the day, we've landed people on the moon. Sure as hell, someone could figure out a midday square, right? Can we just say that again?

46:44Sorry. I'm just thinking for the people that I'm currently working with, right, in this room. They can figure out your recipe. They can figure out your packaging, but they can't figure out how you make your consumer feel. That is so powerful. I love it. Thank you. So yeah, I think that that's the feeling that we're trying to offer is like, be bold. We're trying to sell the afternoon snacking moment. So basically your 2 p.m. crash, can we pick you up on your 2 p.m. crash? Give you something both indulgent and functional, but not too sweet. I think that that's the customer we're tacking, your everyday snack at 2 p.m.

47:17And that's why we're trying to build a platform for afternoon snacks so we could grow into other things other than squares. Five-hour energy. Have you seen that company? Yeah. They tell you what they're selling. It's a little bottle that says five-hour energy. You chug it down. You feel like you're on fire for the time being. I don't know if it's good or bad. But what we did is we said, well, if we tried to own a moment of the day, then it gets into someone's habits, right? And it doesn't just happen once. It's like, oh, yeah, I need my midday square just like some people need their Starbucks coffee in the morning.

47:47Like if you go into that, you start to lean into something that's, again, a moment of somebody's day, which is consistent, right? Can I add on to that? So with Perfect Air, which I think actually came from when Teddy and Marissa were on your program, they came up with our mission is to spread positive energy. And so when we look at that, obviously that comes through our products because we're all about positive energy. So slow release energy, no jitters, no crashes. But actually what that did was become a theme throughout us and the company. so when we would jump on bio calls when it was like literally just me and Teddy on sales calls we would say look actually like yeah of course we'd love to work with you and we love what you're doing and we could tell you a bit about the brand but if you come away from this call feeling happier than you did when you came on at the beginning then we've won that's success and actually what that did is that helped us build relationships with our buyers where we can whatsapp them we can text them you know that we actually have a genuine friendship and relationship with them which is amazing and then how that plays into other areas of businesses sampling it's all about like making people it's not just like here's the can enjoy it's like we're magic perfect tag like how are you doing it's so hyped up and ng i know you're very similar but that thread like really feeds throughout the whole business so that is such a i'm going to use that in a case study in in next year that is amazing so in chobani when we were working in chobani i remember having a row with Hamdi, well not a real row but an argument with Hamdi.

49:14A row is like a... An exchange of views. Yeah, like a heated exchange of views with Hamdi Ullakai of we're sitting in a restaurant in Dublin. But I said to him, we're doing a big sampling campaign around the Tesco's, every Tesco that we're in in the UK we're going to do sampling and I need to decant the pots into smaller pots because each pot cost me one pound. One pound. he said you're not decanting the pots into smaller pots and I said yeah but I'm going to be giving out like 350 pots in a day I said I can't I have to decant them into smaller that's what we do that's what we do he said you are not in Chimani we give away the whole pot yeah I said what do you mean the whole pot and he said because our core like value is generosity and everybody needs to know what it is like to scoop into the white mass, as we called it, and the real fruit puree and get a bit of both.

50:11And then at the end of it, you've only got the fruit puree and you've got all those different combinations. He said, I want everyone to have that entire experience. And it was that generosity that got that grass roots moving. Especially at the early stages, you should all be giving everything you can. Obviously, as you scale, things will change. But I think that caring and authenticity should be injected in the organization, everything from customer experience to sales meetings to your manufacturing, your supply chain. If you are claiming that this is your true authenticity, don't use it as a buzzword.

50:44Actually live through it. And as you scale, obviously, when you get to hundreds of people, thousands of people that work with you, it's a little harder. But at least in the early journey, that's your competitive edge. You have a competitive edge. Make those people feel everything that you're telling us, show them that through action. And I think that one way we do it still, you know, with millions of customers, we try at least, is every time that someone sends a mention on Instagram or something, a midday squares, I'll take a picture. That means that they're willing to show our brand to people and be proud of that.

51:16I'm going to take 10 to 20 seconds to go and say thank you to them. And what I do is I take my phone out and I send a 15 second video, hey, this is Jake, whatever your name is, I say the person's name, and I look at something on their profile that's personal, maybe a dog or something, and I thank them personally, and it's a real video. It's not AI, it's none of that stuff, and that makes them realize that shit, this brand is authentic. They actually care, and all it takes is 15 seconds, 20 seconds to make someone feel something so deeply because no one, unfortunately, a lot of brands in the world don't do it anymore, and AI, as good as it is, the humanization is disappearing faster than ever, and people are craving more humanization.

51:53And if you were smart as a brand, you would go to the next era of the world and be the humanized brand while using AI to empower your business in other ways. But when it's a touch point with a customer, you make them feel deeply of that humanization. I promise you, you will be different than everyone else. So can I take this moment to say thank you, Jake? Thank you. Thank you, Melissa. Thank you, Perfect Head. A big shout out to the Perfect Head team who has done so much work.

52:22led by Rami, who's been the most amazing event organizer. And I really appreciate every single one of you. You have really made this such a fabulous event. Thank you to Nate and everybody in Lucky Saint who has supported us by giving us this room and everything else. Also, thank you to, I wanted to say thank you to Good Raise CBD, who's got, there's some samples on the back. Perfect Ted has actually left you a goodie bag for everyone to take home, which is at the back. There's midday squares to taste. you're probably amongst the first in the UK to taste them. Yeah. So it has been an honour and a privilege and I am so glad we actually get to meet in person.

52:58Thank you. Thank you.

53:07Thank you so much for listening to that. I can't tell you how excited I was to record these last two episodes with Jake and with Marissa and Shani in front of a live audience. I mean, I was pretty anxious and scared, it has to be said, particularly given that I had new podcasting equipment and was setting that up by myself live. But it was just brilliant. I mean, I learned so much from these two businesses, so much from these founders. I really hope you did too. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please think about a friend or a founder or a colleague who might enjoy these episodes too. Send them on.

53:42And please click follow, subscribe to Brand Growth Heroes on your podcast app. so we can continue to get the best guests, have the best events and bring the best value to you.

54:00As always, thanks again to my tech guru and sound engineer, Jip Bougain of Ballagroove and my podcast producer, Catherine of Social Cues.