Mother Root's £16M Secret Growth Equation | Bethan Higson & Alice Gallsworthy

0:00Bethan Higson:I think that moment, that pause at the end of the day is something that's so integral. It's a huge part about being human. It's a signal and a ritual that tells yourself it's your time. It's your moment to slow down after all the hecticness and chaos of the day.

0:18Alice Gallsworthy:Did you know that Mother Root is the number one value-driving SKU in the non-alcoholic beverage market in the UK right now? Well, I knew they were doing well, but I didn't know they were doing that well. And my God, there is still so much headroom for this brand. Bethan Higson, she who's the founder and Alice Goldsworthy come on the show today to talk about how they have driven a brand who, when I knew them four years ago, was doing about 4K a month to an average run rate of, I think, 16 to 18 million a year. They've got 10 people. Most of that growth is coming from online e-commerce and Amazon, DTC.

0:57Alice Gallsworthy:They are doing so well. There are so many super fans of this brand. If you haven't heard of it, you've got to go and try it. Let's dive in.

1:08Alice Gallsworthy:Bethan Higson, Alice Gouldsworthy of Mother Root. Welcome to Brand Growth Heroes. Hello. Hey, hi. How are you doing? Excited to be here. Listen, it is so great to see you. Beth and Alice, we've only just met and I'm so looking forward to getting to talk to you properly because obviously we hang out a lot on LinkedIn together, but we haven't got to chew the fat. And Beth and you and I go way back to 2021, I think, isn't it?

1:32Bethan Higson:I know, nearly the very beginning, the early days, Fiona.

1:36Alice Gallsworthy:The early days. So the last time we spoke was when I think you so kindly sent me the most beautiful jumper. I was lying in bed, had started chemo and we were doing a catch up call or I can't remember what it was. and I loved your jumper and the next thing you sent me won the post and I was so moved and it's the most gorgeous jumper and thank you so much once again. It was really, really kind.

1:57Bethan Higson:Oh, of course. I remember those days really fondly. I was doing the, one of the first. Yeah, one of the first. Brand growth programs and it was amazing. It was really, really helpful.

2:05Alice Gallsworthy:Thank you. One of the things that you talked about all the time was finding the right person to help you lead this business forward and fast forward a few years. Obviously, Alice, you've been with the brand now or the business three years, is it? Yeah, just coming up to three years. And the brand is flying, the business is flying. I mean, I know you've put so much in place, Bethan, before Alice arrived, but the two of you, whenever we see you on LinkedIn, anyone who's looking for that second person in their business is like seriously envious and happy to see such fabulous team and led by two fabulous women.

2:35Alice Gallsworthy:I mean, it's obviously working really well between you, is it?

2:37Bethan Higson:Yeah, definitely is. Oh my God. Definitely what they say is it's the team that makes the business grow. And I think finding someone who's got that right fit for your own personality, whether that's just you're having a laugh and you really enjoy working together, but also that they've got like the contrary skill set to what you have and can really help start to actually deliver on what you know is possible, like the potential of the business. So when I met Alice, I was like, I have to find a way to get her in the business. It was immediate.

3:13Alice Gallsworthy:Welcome to Brand Growth Heroes, the leading podcast for the founders of Challenger grocery brands. I'm your host, Fiona Fitz. My 25 years at global giants such as Nestle and Challenger brands such as Goo Chocolate Puds, Chobani and Strong Roots, as well as coached to over 400 scaling brands, means I have the experience to ask the questions that truly matter and get you the insight that will inspire you to think differently and drive serious growth for your brand.

3:44Alice Gallsworthy:Alice, we're going to talk all about the background that you bring to this, because I think that's really interesting for people out there, founders who are looking at who they might bring on. I think you've got such an interesting background that not everybody might necessarily think about looking to when they're recruiting. But first of all, Bethan, when we were talking last, I think the business was doing one and a half million in ARR average run rate. Now you're doing, are you willing to share like a fork even for us? we're in the region of 15 16 million at the minute i can't believe the world doesn't know this they probably do but like let's say 14 to 17 million in average run rate that is bloody incredible it's huge and some of some of the other stats you were giving us tell us all the number

4:22Bethan Higson:ones that you have alice go for it we are nielsen data we'll put some footnotes uh number one non non-alcoholic spirit brand in the UK. And that is with, I think I can quote Alex on this, six or 7 % distribution.

4:39Alice Gallsworthy:So above like people like Seedlip and, you know, Gordon's non-alcoholic and all that stuff. You are bigger than them and you've only got six percentage points of distribution. Exactly. With whom? Who are you distributed with?

4:50Bethan Higson:We are with Waitrose, Ocado, Sainsbury's. We've only just got into the full Sainsbury's. No, we haven't yet. Oh, not yet? No. That's to

5:00Alice Gallsworthy:come oh my god you heard it here first so in terms of the Nielsen data then so mother root is is that mean like you're the the biggest skew sales week on week or actually the biggest brand sales biggest revenue driver per skew oh my god yeah that is unbelievable and so basically you should be in the UK in 70 to 80 distribution ASAP I mean that's the headroom here isn't it is mental. Yeah, it is mental. It really is mental. Yeah. Yeah. For those people who don't know what Mother Root is, and can I just say, like, I am actually addicted to Mother Root, and I do bang on about this on LinkedIn quite a lot in other podcast episodes when we've been talking about non-alcoholic.

5:40Alice Gallsworthy:Like, I'm someone who I'm very open with saying that, you know, I've had a drink every evening for most of my adult life, never go more than two, don't binge drink on the weekends. But, you know, that's not a good thing. It is not a good thing to be having a drink every night. Yeah, and it's usually a beer. It might be a glass of wine. But since I discovered Mother Root, I'm able to punctuate that with three, four nights of Mother Root. And actually, it is like something that I gasp for, you know? And I don't know why that is. Well, I do, because we've talked about it quite a bit, Bethan. But can you bring us back?

6:13Alice Gallsworthy:Why did you create Mother Root? What is it? Why are you the biggest value-driving skew in the UK, in non-alcoholic, above all of those massive companies? What is it about the product?

6:25Bethan Higson:Well, actually, before I answer that, I want to say, you know, you're saying it's not a good thing that I want to drink at the end of the day. I actually dispute that. I think that moment, that pause at the end of the day is something that's so integral. It's a huge part about being human. It's a signal and a ritual that tells yourself it's your time. It's your moment to slow down after all the hecticness and chaos of the day. The 6 p.m. ritual is very personal. is maybe a time that you can actually connect with your partner. Like you both come back from work and you're having a moment and you're cooking or you're inviting friends.

6:59Bethan Higson:It's so social, it's so ritualistic, and it's so connected with enjoyment and pleasure, which is a huge part of feeling good. And that's why I'm so passionate about, it's not about the alcohol, it's about the moment. But what you need is a drink that honors that moment, something that is full flavored, got a lot of quality, that's delicious that you're going to actually actively opt in to have. we say that it's not about what you take out it's about what you put in that counts and so actually we're reframing it as rather than being non-alcoholic which is the term that works for now for the category but it sort of does it a disservice we want to be your go-to rather than your instead of you know it's a really about capturing that like anticipation and desirability

7:38Alice Gallsworthy:that's so true because I do have anticipation for for mother root yes the moment I know from working with you on the on Brang Earth Heroes pre-mini MBA we used to call it the growth strategy program but it was brand growth heroes programs back in the day you used to talk to me about the perfect serve because that's your background isn't it from lmvh yeah um one day it'll be called i joke talis lvmr oh good nice nice nice if that's not a hello signal to them i

8:06Bethan Higson:don't know what is oh no maybe it'll be an acquisition coming from this oh from the other way around no um anyway it's entirely that i think that i had 10 years in the premiums wines and spirits industry so my love of like well-crafted adult beverages goes back a long way that comes from all the scientific bits the viticulture the you know the agriculture that that goes into actually sourcing amazing ingredients to the fermentations and the blends it's the storytelling and history all of that is rich cultural territory that belongs also in the non-alcoholic space so I wanted to bring that across and then it's also about how do you serve it that moment that makes it special that says I care about you or I care about me and just actually taking the time to make a great drink all of that's really important and you've ended up with

8:53Alice Gallsworthy:you've got one skew pretty much other than a few seasonalities right so you've got one skew and I said to you in the pre-call I said I can't believe you've done all this at one skew and what did you guys say back to me I said Aperol did it I mean and you're so right and then you said Guinness did it you know so this one skew the bottle size I mean I love your new packaging by the way um I loved your old packaging but I do love your new packaging it sits perfectly in the side door of my fridge which is really great perfect the flat bit because it's a flat bottle talk to me about the actual liquid and the actual organoleptics of it because I think that's really important from an alcohol moment or a non-alcoholic moment the after the evening ritual moment for me anyway

9:29Bethan Higson:a lot of non-alcoholic drinks kind of lean on to botanicals or bitters what we're doing with ours which is ginger based, ginger and apple cider vinegar are the core ingredients to the base of mother root is we are creating a slow burn territory. So we like to speak about building heat and that warmth and that hit that you get from drinking mother root means that you sip it and you get that burn. You sip it slowly. It really actually, you feel it in your body. It do. It gives you that lift. It gives you, apparently ginger also actually actively raises the core body temperature. I get a little euphoria.

10:10Bethan Higson:That comes from the nature of the ingredients. It's very, very, you know, there's a lot of natural ginger that goes in there. We also add extra heat with a bit of chili as well. The approach to when I was making it was really taking that concept of, you know, the fermented ingredient was key because fermentation is where flavor is built so every time there is a fermentation process you're you're actually developing more flavonoids in a base liquid so we have the apple cider vinegar in there not just for acidity but also because it gives that length on the mid palate so that's different to a soda or fizzy drink which is just usually carbonated water flavor and maybe a citric acid so it's quite two-dimensional you get a big flavor pop and then it's gone whereas this it lingers and there's a length on the palate, which is much more akin to an alcoholic fermented product.

11:00Alice Gallsworthy:Yeah, completely. And even in your throat and in your chest, you get that kind of rays of warmth that radiate outwards. It's fabulous. I'm thrilled to introduce Brand Growth Heroes partner, Jolson. Jolson is a leading B Corp certified commercial law firm that specializes in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands. With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear, Graze and Pulsin, Jolson is also famous for advising the Innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola. And believe it or not, they still work with the Innocent founders at Jamjar Investments today.

11:39Alice Gallsworthy:I'm especially impressed by how Jolson sets founders up for long-term success and by their commitment to championing female founders. Recently, I asked managing partner Paul Chappie, why does a scaling brand need a corporate lawyer? So you definitely need someone that's going to have your back, that is going to be looking at those pitfalls that may be coming in the future, preferably someone that knows the industry, because having that context is really important when negotiating,

12:10Bethan Higson:be that commercial agreements or funding arrangements.

12:14Alice Gallsworthy:And at the end of the day, you really need to have someone that you can trust and obviously can negotiate hard when they need to. Huge thanks to Brand Growth Heroes podcast sponsors, Jolson. Now let's get back to the show. In terms of how you've grown then from, and this is a question really for both of you, what has your growth model been then from those early days? Did you get stuck at any particular revenue? And then how did you then, what kicked into gear that you all of a sudden started shooting upwards?

12:43Bethan Higson:At the point when Alice came in, we were doing a lot. We had D2C, we had a bit of Entred going, a bit of local independent retail going, and things were sort of stagnating. And I was splitting my budget across too many channels and too many marketing channels, trying to do a lot of things, but nothing was really moving the needle. And when Alice joined was at the same point where we decided to go all in on D2C to basically then focus our marketing investment into one channel, which then meant that we could build a growth engine and a growth model that was repeatable and then scalable.

13:17Alice Gallsworthy:Let's just diagnose that or analyse that for a little moment. So did that mean that you were walking away from the other channels? So we call that in the programme where to play, don't we? The where to play decisions. Did you just start reallocating budget and mental and cognitive and energy time focus onto this channel? Or did you actually walk away from other channels?

13:37Bethan Higson:So we, I guess we took an approach for indies. We didn't walk away, but we were not kind of investing going after new business, but we did stop things like direct delivery. So we no longer would fulfill any orders directly from our warehouse. So if it wasn't through a distributor, we were essentially walking away from the business because we wanted to streamline. The on trade, we stopped going for new business and we did kind of rationalize a bit through the fact that we were stopping doing direct delivery again because we knew that to get the on trade right that was a massive amount of investment and expertise that we didn't have and we didn't want to focus on at that time and and it comes with risk because if you don't get the on trade right that's actually brand damaging so we knew that we if we wanted to go into a channel we were like let's go deep and let's win in that channel and that's been our strategy can i just ask alice

14:28Alice Gallsworthy:or beth and did that hurt because you coming from that on trade perfect serve i can't imagine that that wasn't really painful emotionally for you to not serve with excellence?

14:38Bethan Higson:Yes and no. The entree is also really challenging. You hit on a lot of closed doors. Some of it culturally, they're not necessarily on board the non-alcoholic drinks train yet. The people who open up bars and restaurants are lovers of wine and spirits and they don't necessarily believe in it and there wasn't enough. The data still in this customer segment is still really young. okay it's new so we don't have rich data to say look there's all this demand you know we're at the early stage of it so it's just whether they buy into it you get a lot of rejection

15:10Alice Gallsworthy:so you tried and it wasn't working so you'd come to the point where you're like okay i'm happy to kind of i've tried that maybe it's not the right time i'm happy to go this other way so what happened then uh alice what did you do in order to drive this growth and maybe that's a question for bethany or or you but how did it start then once you made that decision i think it all started

15:30Bethan Higson:at the beginning with really trying to get to understand our consumer like all of our growth is primarily driven by taking consumer insights and then turning that into digital marketing campaigns um through paid social it was like the earlier days and we felt super stretched in terms of time because it was primarily beth and i with freelancers for for a year um but our growth agency were the ones kind of helping us understand this whole concept of jobs to be done basically where we were interviewing say two or three customers a week each and taking half an hour of their time and really getting to the root of what the problem is they're looking to solve so it's not their reaction to your product it's what has led you to the point of this purchase and we were then starting to build up these customer profiles which were you know you'd often see kind of two or three of the key profiles and it's you know our target demographic is like females 40 plus looking to kind of bring pleasure and joy into their life but they're also health conscious they may be pre or perimenopausal they love a glass of wine they love that kind of high acidity maybe it's something a blanc or a riesling they love that wind down moment but actually it disrupts their sleep or they have a really busy life and they just they want something where they feel really good about what they're drinking.

16:51Bethan Higson:And then it's taking those insights and then building that into creative that we are then, you know, advertising on Facebook and Instagram to really help bring more of that customer base in. So I'd say that real turning point was the moment where we were starting to like really bring it back to the consumer and really get nerdy and deep in understanding who they are. I would say that was a big turning point.

17:13Alice Gallsworthy:I'm really happy, Beth, and to hear that you're using jobs to be done. And that's amazing. We love it. We use it today. That's brilliant. So talk to us then about the creative, Beth, and how long did it take you to work out what works and what doesn't work? And really, I mean, have you built this business on paid social? Is that what you've done?

17:27Bethan Higson:It's a big part of it. It's not exclusively that because obviously it's about acquiring the customers, but then it's also about everything else, you know, making sure that the delivery of it is amazing. The customer service is amazing. And it's about getting those secondary, third, fourth purchases, which is through email campaigns, through inspiration, you know, telling people how they can drink it. And also then a big part of our growth has also come from word of mouth. And we know that that's because we're delivering on the promise that we're setting out to deliver.

17:57Alice Gallsworthy:How early on did you start measuring what was working in terms of acquisition? And, you know, what does that look like today?