Wildfires and emergency alerts

24:24Paddy O'Connell:So I've just walked past the village hall where there's a sign saying tortoise found. And I'm walking down the road with a woman who's a neighbour of the village hall, Victoria Hubbocks. It's a worry more than anything, I think. It's the unknown. There won't be as many people freely wandering the streets. You won't bump into people. So are you angry about it? Angry to a degree, I think it's more frustration. It's about the lack of consultation. It's about the size of it. I get that Andy Burnham has said that we all need to do our fair share, but I think increasing a village's population by 350 % isn't our fair share at all.

25:02Paddy O'Connell:Where are you taking me now? Where are we walking to? We are walking towards the church. So as you can see, it's a very small village. So here we are at this sort of one of the oldest parts of the village, the church. You're off on holiday, you told me. Do you think when you come back there'll be an answer about what's going to happen in your village? I don't believe so. I think Annie Berman has said that the good people of Piddington he'll listen to. And I think if he was going to go through with that, he would have done it already. I think this summer has really just been a yes summer for our children.

25:32We've slept on the trampoline, we've camped in the garden, because I feel like next year that may not be possible just because of the safety aspect.

25:39Paddy O'Connell:The church door is locked. the village or the hamlet was mentioned in the doomsday book and one of the famous recordings from here is recent it's of the bell ringers getting together to celebrate the coronation of king charles they told me that the joke around here goes that they were one of the first parishes to be able to elect their own ministers in the 1400s and they feel they probably had more power back then than they do now.

26:14Paddy O'Connell:The bells. The bells. Right, this is an argument that's going to continue every week, I think, so if you did not hear your view on this subject represented there, be sure in the coming Sundays you will. It's 9.30, we look ahead to 1pm because James Nocte has a... That's a very unfair use of the buzzer. Oh, dear. That's me. My introduction to you was too long, Jim. What is coming up at 1pm? Well, I know you're going to have slow radio, which is the soft, refreshing rain. Am I spoiling it? No. Revealing that fact. Well, I was thinking all good gifts around us and so on, I quote, as people will realise.

26:55And we're looking at the gift, or really it should be the curse, shouldn't it, of the national challenge of climate change. Now with us, the hotter summers and wetter winters that are going to be the pattern. Not theory, but as we know, practicality. And it's all about securing water supplies, adapting our infrastructure, changing land use, different crops, new weather patterns. It's one of these things, Paddy, if you look at it from every angle, 360 degrees, you realise you are looking out on a different landscape. And it's one that we're going to have to get used to. So going behind the wildfires and the sound of the klaxons, which you've been hearing all week.

27:30There, I'm stopping. Right, we're going to talk about what the government machine has to do.

27:34Paddy O'Connell:It's the fate of being inundated by a shrinking water supply, isn't it? A stellar career, mocked. I thought I was in just a minute. I was talking about myself. Just a minute, just half a minute. Let me give you half a minute. No, no, Jim, we can look forward to coverage about our resilience, I suppose. What should our national strategy be? Have we got one? Do we need one? And are we up to it? A typically simple question for the world this weekend at work. Investing with Schwab is like spending a Saturday at a great farmer's market. You can fill your reusable tote with a bit of everything. Maybe you go for some free-range self-directed investing.

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28:37Paddy O'Connell:It's a great joy to see you, Jim. Thank you for playing along with our childish behaviour. It's 9.32. It's BBC Radio 4. It's Broadcasting House. Hello, I'm Paddy. That's repetition again. It's true. The principal of Homerton College, Cambridge, Lord Woolley, has told BH media and internet attention on his friend Jason Arday amounted to blood sport. Jason Arday had been at the centre of a firestorm over allegations over plagiarism and his biography. But now he's dead. Simon Woolley is one of the most prominent black members of staff at the institution and told us he contacted journalists directly in the days before Jason Arday's death to ask them to be more careful with their reporting.

29:20Well, there was a deluge of media reporting and I know a few of the outlets and journalists and we'd been in conversation. And I did remind them that this was a most vulnerable young man and we needed to centre Jason Arday in all our thinking about what we're writing. That was acknowledged by those journalists that I contacted. I don't want to name them, but I was really, really fearful for Jason's well-being.

29:51Paddy O'Connell:He himself said when he resigned, he was in plain sight, he said that the scrutiny had been unbearable. 100 % I mean I was with him was talking to him in fact helped him draft that resignation letter and we could not have been more explicit I think it's worth listening to what he wrote for my own well-being and for my family I have concluded that the only way to bring this chapter to an end is to step away for now however I ask only for understanding for compassion and for the space to begin again. That was not afforded to him. In a conversation I had with Jason on the Monday, we met on Monday with a few dear friends.

30:42He said he felt hounded to death, his words, and he couldn't see a way out. I mean, for me, for his loved ones, his family, those who were around him, we felt desperate. We felt helpless in some ways, but we sought to come together. I brought people like Diane Abbott to this gathering and Misa Harriman, because they'd been subject to horrible media attention. And Diane said to him, Diane Abbott held his hand and said, we'll help you get through this. But on that day, we saw a man, half his body weight and desperate beyond belief.

31:31Paddy O'Connell:Because you are telling us about Britain today, which is that anyone at the centre of a pylon in the current culture goes into the heart of the culture war. You represent something which other people don't like. And there's a sort of sport. It's very obvious. I've been looking at some of the reading. I'm not going to repeat it. But people were enjoying attacking him. It was a blood sport. Paddy, we need to remember this. This wonderful, big-hearted young man never stole a bag of crisps. He was only accused of plagiarism. Actually, he was found not culpable of plagiarism by John Moore University.

32:15and yet he was subject to the most horrendous, toxic, vicious witch hunt. I would argue very few of us would withstand.

32:29Paddy O'Connell:I will ask you what should be done, but can we address head on the fact, the observers put it like this, he seems to have had an unusual relationship with the truth and ultimately plagiarism and alleged plagiarism, it seems to me, are rife in academia. This is a quote from the Observer today. You're working at an institution, and I wonder if you can characterise for me if that's true and contrast that with the treatment that Jason Arney received. There are constant, constant questions about research misuse and or plagiarism. It works on different levels. There are a number of individuals that have all been subject to accusations and findings of plagiarism.

33:11not one of them have been subject to to the degree that jason arday has by a hundredfold so we have to ask this question when we talk about which a lot of people don't want to talk about is racism you have to look at negatively differential treatment you also have to understand that the whole of the black community and black academics have been brought into this debate as though we don't belong in these positions because we are collectively the diversity, equity and inclusion

33:45Paddy O'Connell:hires. Because the argument was put forward that DEI advanced people who did not have the merit. Think about this for a second. There are 975 professors at Cambridge. How many do you think are black? Well, it's a fair question you're asking me, so I'm going to say 30%. I'll tell you at less than half a percent. Black people are not given any special favours in entering these hallowed institutions. What should happen to the investigation that Cambridge started? Here's the problem. This is the onslaught was so huge. I'm pretty sure that Cambridge thought, we've got to do something, we've got to do something, rather than be strong enough to say, look, we've investigated it.

34:29We'll continue to do some investigations if evidence is found, but we need to be proportionate. We need to centre a human being at the heart of this. This was a witch hunt that didn't need to be and needs to stop. What I do think, we need an investigation into the media onslaught, the vicious media onslaught.

34:52Paddy O'Connell:The Prime Minister used the word a moment of reflection. I spoke to one of Jason Arde's friends who wanted a reckoning. Is it that people who wrote things should be asked to address what they wrote directly? I don't believe they have the humility and humanity for self-reflection. I hope they do. I think it needs to be more strategic, more official than that. The government needs to say, look, we cannot have a man hounded. I tell my students, we're better than this. We're better than that. But, you know, we've got to have these conversations in our schools, in our universities, in our politics.

35:38Our politics has become so hate-filled. I'm saddened that poor white people are pitted against poor black people. The narrative is that all your ills are because of these people. And, you know, our prime minister, I think, is a good man, really has to take the reins of this and drive our society to more decency, more compassion. Yes, in academia, we've got to be rigorous, but this is not rigor. This has been a blood sport, literally a blood sport.

36:15Paddy O'Connell:The principal of Homerton College Cambridge, Lord Woolley. There is a lot of writing about DEI in the Sundays. and we will pick the subject up with our reviewers in five minutes or so. If you're like us, you yearn for rain. Humans have long prayed for it, or prayed for it to stop, and sung about it. Water from the sky gives life, but sometimes in the course of things we ask, why does it always rain on me? Guy Garvey from Elbow is an expert on rain, since he's lived most of his life in Manchester, but is on holiday from where he sent us a musical postcard. So I'm in the south of France on holiday with my family.

36:51We are flying in and out from Bordeaux Airport, so the recent weather and its catastrophic effects on certain parts of Western Europe have been very forefront in our minds, and I know that you're all looking forward to a little rain.

37:23Raining song for me is an important one. I'm from the north of England, I'm from Bury in the foothills of Lancashire.

37:36And I've lived in and around Manchester most of my life, until I moved to London ten years ago. And rain is very much a part of my childhood, my understanding of the world. For me, it's normally comfort. A rainy day for me is not a boring thing to be overcome.

38:01Of course the rain is mentioned in songs by the Smiths.

38:10It's a comfy thing where you're forced indoors and I've always said that Manchester's weather, and its relationship with its weather is what gives us its great songwriters or certainly contributes to it in double shoots plus a Tupperware sky where you can't see where the sun is all day the slowest even stops the passage of time and it makes sitting at a desk a very normal thing to do

38:53I wrote the words to Great Expectations on a Rainy Day, thinking about rainy days past and it triggering all kinds of memories of first love. Rain can be many things in songs. Bob Dylan's Hard Rain is Gonna Fall, and actually I love Brian Ferry's version of that. Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son? Where have you been, my darling young one? The rain is a terrifying thing. It's an apocalyptic thing. And it's a hard, hard, and it's a hard rain. It's gonna fall.

39:37It's raining men is a joyful idea of plenty. It's raining men. Hallelujah, it's raining men Amen I'm gonna go out I'm gonna let myself get Absolutely soaking wet It's raining men And then you get Travis's Why Does It Always Rain On Me

40:01Paddy O'Connell:Why does it always rain on me Is it because I lied when I was 17 A happy clown accidentally caught in the rain.

40:20Singing in the rain is about laughing in the face of it all. I'm singing in the rain Just singing in the rain What a glorious feeling I'm happy again I'm laughing at clouds so dark up above Rain is many things, particularly to British people. I personally love it. It makes me think of hot tea, Radio 4, and I'm not just creeping, the comforts of indoors and of home. So there you go, my relationship with the rain. Let's hope for lots and lots and lots of rain.

41:05Paddy O'Connell:Guy Garvey speaking. for millions of us, and he often sings for millions of us too. He can creep all he likes. It's quarter to ten. Let's review the news with Daisy Buchanan. Daisy Buchanan, the novelist who invites authors to share their reading habits on her chart-topping podcast, You're Booked, and her own latest novel is All Grown Up. Daisy, welcome. Hello, thank you for having me. What's the most surprising reading habit? Have you ever met novelists who've got reader's block? I have that comes up quite frequently and I think lots of people get anxious and say oh I couldn't possibly read while I'm writing because otherwise it will influence me too much but I think that I re-read a lot I comfort read and I go back to very familiar beloved books and I think that's a great way for any aspiring writer to get reading Jimmy McLaughlin is here he was a Downing Street advisor on business to Theresa May now hosts Jimmy's Jobs of the Future where he's just interviewed Andy Burnham yes Did you ask him what you're reading, Andy?

42:05I didn't, but he did start quoting poetry halfway through.

42:08Paddy O'Connell:But he studied it, didn't he? Yes, he did, English literature. What did he quote to you? Oh, now you've put me on the spot, Paddy. Well, we can listen. The podcast is called Jimmy's Jobs of the Future, so we go and listen to that. Kathleen Stock is the philosopher and contributing editor to Unheard. She came to national prominence for many after leaving her post at the University of Sussex in a free speech row, but is here for the first time. Kathleen, I don't think you've been on the programme before. No, I haven't. Thanks very much for having me. Welcome. It's long overdue. Now, you are going to talk to us more about Jason Arde, so I'm going to time that for towards the end of the review.

42:40Paddy O'Connell:Let's bring some other subjects to discussion for our listeners. Jimmy McLaughlin, Sunday Times. There are good reasons for the PM to call an early election. Yes, indeed. It is a challenge that faces every prime minister that comes in halfway through a term. Do you have a general election or not? And obviously, Andy Burnham has had quite a positive start. And I just think you're going to see more and more of this happening. The Mail on Sunday also speculates that he may go for an election in May next year. Whether his honeymoon will last that long, I'm not sure but it is interesting to hear how this is becoming more of a topic.

43:14Paddy O'Connell:Kathleen, do you think we're headed for a Brenda in Bristol moment? Probably not because they'll have to then put into their manifesto things that people really don't want to hear. I think it's one of these classic cases of a clash between Labour Party interests and the country's interests. I think it is in the country's interest to have a general election. It's pro-democracy. Andy Burnham would have a better mandate, but it is not in the Labour Party's interest to have one because they'll lose to reform. So probably not. I agree there. I think that we all feel that we'd like a say, but I do think things feel quite volatile.

43:46It's been quite an overwhelming summer. I would love to see what Andy Burnham does next. And I think lots of people are feeling confident and feeling positive, but would maybe like a little more evidence of what's going to happen. And, you know, I'd say wait a few months

44:00Paddy O'Connell:Kathleen said reform would win, but the Mail on Sunday article, Jimmy, says reform have peaked. Yes, well, I think that's an interesting argument. And I think one of the things that is happening is that the right is somehow split the moment between Conservative and reform. And that's the argument for this Goldilocks moment that is talked about that they could take advantage of with that split on the right at the moment. Kathleen? Sorry, what was the question? Well, I just wonder if the point being that the it's not an interview. It's just the point being that the article says the right is split.

44:30Paddy O'Connell:Therefore, that would be Andy Bowne's moment of opportunity because you've got Camille Bain and Nigel Farage taking votes. Therefore, it's a moment. Sure. But the left is split also. I mean, there's splits going on all over the place. And I think there's quite a few wavering people. The more that Burnham defines himself at the moment, he's quite vague. So he can pull in this big group. But the more he defines himself, of course, he'll lose some on the left if he moves right. And if he moves left, he'll move some on the right. So it's all a game of big, I don't know, three-dimensional chess or whatever the metaphor is.

44:58But yeah, complicated stuff.

45:00Paddy O'Connell:That works well for me. I can't play chess in one dimension. I've got a sense of the dilemma. Daisy Buchanan, why are the water companies so full of, this is a word that rhymes with hit, begins with an S, and it's from You Magazine? This is very close to my heart. I live by the Kent coast and the water companies are dumping sewage into the sea and doing all sorts of other dreadful... But they're very good at it. I mean, you have to say Britain is really good at putting sewage into waterways. I mean, we do ourselves down days. If that's our talent, then we are, as you say, excelling. But Fergal Sharkey, the pop star, is campaigning against this.

45:45I saw him on Gone Fishing and it's really lovely as well to see Mortimer and Whitehouse showing all of us how important clean water is. Fish stocks are down. There was that, I think, a recent Panorama where a very young girl died because of polluted water in the 90s. Maggie Alderson as well saying she's, after swimming in Hastings in polluted water, she's gone deaf. and I think that you know the companies are being fined they're not really addressing the problem or reacting to it we're not allowed to name the people but I wish we could it's a fantastic piece of journalism which you might not sort of necessarily expect to see a new magazine this long read it goes through all the businesses as well it's brilliant and there's a lovely anecdote in there as well about Fergal Sharkey getting to know Andy Burnham when he was the Minister of Culture in 2007 and that is to Kathleen's previous point about you know he hasn't made any sounds on water nationalisation as of yet and he will undoubtedly upset people and it's just an example of where once you get further in being prime minister and you have to take decisions it is really tough but it is an amazing piece of journalism and it's in you magazines picked by

46:57Paddy O'Connell:daisy buchanan the novelist reinforced by jimmy mclaughlin who's just interviewed the prime minister and now we go to our reviewer kathleen stock who's picking a sunday times article by Matthew Syed, which is on Jason Arday. It's a very nuanced and unusual article. Can you summarise it as best you can, Kathleen? I'll help out and then you can give us your opinion on it. Sure. I mean, I should say I chose this out of duty, I think, because I'm one of the people that wrote about Jason Arday. But it turns out that Matthew Syed's sister knew him personally and that Jason worked with her on some charities for vulnerable children And so Syed does this, as you say, nuanced thing where he doesn't deny the problems with Jason's our day's academic record.

47:46But he also gives us a glimpse of the human person underneath the media frenzy because his sister knew him well. And he focuses on the issue that you have also focused earlier on the program of this intense, the wave upon wave of media attention. and critique that Arde suffered. So I think it's a rich piece for all those reasons.

48:11Paddy O'Connell:He says that his sister felt that he, Jason Arde, needed a defender in the press, but I prevaricated in ways I now believe were cowardly. I wrote on the benefits of diversity programmes but failed to express the fear that attacks on Arde, while clearly justified, had become disproportionate. This is about the reckoning, about us all taking moment for reflection. So what is your reflection, Jimmy, on what Kathleen's bringing to our attention, the Matthew Said article? Well, I think the Matthew Said piece is brilliant. And he talks about how he's been the beneficiary of positive discrimination throughout his career and so on.

48:50And it is just brilliant the way he talks about it and also admits that he himself failed to write about it in his defence, in Jason Ardo's defence. and it just it really strikes a tone of what is an incredibly sad story. It is a brilliant, balanced piece looking back on it.

49:08Paddy O'Connell:And Daisy, for listeners who do have concerns about overpromotion, where do they go to express that without being accused of being unfair at this very sensitive time? It's complex because I think that issue, and I didn't, I found Sia's piece quite crass. to talk about individuals being overpromoted doesn't go anywhere near addressing the problem that I think was pointed out earlier in this programme. Was it half a percent of academics are black? I don't know if that's Cambridge or... Yes, he was saying it. But what about the conversation that we're having? What's the tone? Kathleen, you were at the centre of a giant storm yourself.

49:46Paddy O'Connell:When you're at the centre of something in Britain, it's a very lonely place, isn't it? It is. I think we have... I mean, I've certainly had a modicum of experience of that. But I think the thing that is, there's lots of discussion about what this means, this terrible case. But what it partly what it means is clicks. And I think you can talk about perhaps racism. I disagree that racism was at the core of this. I think clicks were at the core of this. And I know this because I wrote about it early on in the news cycle. And I had an enormous response. I was then asked on nearly every media outlet, including the BBC twice.

50:22so and I know that that lots of people editors were looking for the interest the public interest that was undoubtedly there in this story it's like the salt path in the ivory towers it has this sort of fantastical aspect to it and there's no doubt that in that frenzy people including me no doubt forgot about the as Simon Willey said the intentionally vulnerable person at the heart although of course there are questions about why such a vulnerable person was put in this position in the first place too. You can have two questions about this problem.

50:55Paddy O'Connell:Thank you very much for picking that. Thank you everyone for talking about it. I know this is not the end but this is a review of multiple subjects and it's my decision to move on although some listeners will wish we could keep going. So thank you for raising that. That's an article by Matthew Side and we heard an interview with Simon Woolley. Jimmy McAuflin Give migrant jobs to one million British neats, says The Sun on Sunday. Well, so I am delighted to see this on page two of The Sun on Sunday. because I think it is a travesty that we have one million people between the ages of 18 and 24, not in education, employment or training.

51:29For me, it should be on the front pages. I think it is an absolute disaster. Now, I'm not totally sure about the proposals that the Chancellor is coming up with in terms of we're going to have migrants leaving and so we can give those jobs to young people. But I think it is a huge issue that is not taken seriously enough. This could be a massive problem for our economy. If we can't get 18 to 24-year-olds in work, then it is such a huge challenge. Work is so much more than just money. It is a sense of camaraderie that you build alongside people, a sense of purpose. And I really believe that this needs to be a frontline political issue.

52:07Paddy O'Connell:I'm reading from the article, Job Czar Alan Milburn is conducting an independent review. He said we face a lost generation without action being taken. Kathleen? Yes, I completely agree. I think the problem of NEATS is a tragedy for the people concerned. And there's this sort of failure to launch syndrome that we've got where people just aren't getting out into the world, particularly boys, I think. And they need to be encouraged because it's part of human flourishing to be able to cope with the stresses of work and the demands of work and the social aspect of it. and with virtual technologies as they are taking us away from social contact, it becomes harder and harder for some kids to get over the line, as it were.

52:48So we really do need to encourage them for their sake.

52:51Paddy O'Connell:OK, everyone, give me, if you would, 30 seconds on the subjects that you wanted to tell us about. The Observer magazine, Daisy, the tiger who came to suburbia, summarised in brief. It was gripping. I love this. I didn't love the story. I read with my mouth open, much like I watched The Tiger King. We've got a tiger queen who is called... I don't need the name. Where is it? I don't need the name. It is in a suburb called Dürzig, which is just outside Berlin. I think nine tigers roaming around, kept in an enclosure. Perfectly legal in Germany. Keep your tiger in the suburbs of the Observer. Thank you, Daisy.

53:26Paddy O'Connell:Jimmy, lags ping sting. Yes, page 13 of The Sun. A fantastic story about... We have discussed the emergency pinging system that came out on Friday at seven o 'clock. One of the unintended consequences, perhaps upsides of it, was that prisoners who have hidden their phones were alerted to prison officers, which I thought was a fantastic unintended consequence. Kathleen, in 15 seconds, I Claudius paved the way for Dynasty and Downton from the Sunday Express. Yes, this is Sir Derek Jacoby saying that the seminal series I, Claudius, Family Saga inspired other creators. But the thing I mainly took away from it was that Ronnie Barker nearly got the role of Claudius, which would be a completely different show.

54:09Paddy O'Connell:Thank you for ending with that image. Thank you all very much indeed, Daisy, Jimmy and Kathleen. Our listener Hugh Owen has sent us rain, which is on the bins in Glasgow. And Anna Daly writes to say she's got rain in France. rather than in Spain. Today's producers were Rose Nugy and Guy Emanuel, studio direction of the most remarkable kind from Gabriel O 'Regan. The editor was Mark Faulkner. The listener was you, which never fails to astonish. Thank you and goodbye.