The Favors (Finneas & Ashe)

32:57That's so good. I think when you have been there, you picture, like, I think that bar is like CD. And so I was like, oh, that's funny to sing about that bar. And Ash was like, saying 4 ,100, it's not like the Dresden has a cool name. The Sunset Tower is a cool name. 1 ,400 is just like a number. Yeah. And so we were like, well, what's a bar that, and then David was like, well, my brother goes to that bar all the time. We were like, what if we just never say the name of the bar? It's just like you're at the bar with David's brother because that was the bar that he went to. And then it became this kind of like, who the fuck is David's brother?

33:32Like you're dating the girl you used to date is now on a date with David's brother. And you're like, God damn it. That sucks. And I don't know. The whole thing became privately funny to us. And then it was like, all right, how can we illustrate that this is funny? And then there's like those lines in the second verse that's like. Daddy was a tennis star. That's in the dream. Oh, you're right. But there's those lines that's like, yeah, there's try to be a different person. Made a joke and took a shot. What a way to learn your lesson of who you are and who you're not. What's the one with the eighth in my purse?

34:07And I've never looked better, but I've never felt worse. It's just kind of about, you know, picking yourself up and trying to move on with your life. Waking up in a basement. No, is that the dream? You know why I keep confusing you, too? We can talk about the dream. Yeah, can we switch the topic? I had a very similar experience writing both of those songs because I pretty much just watched and like cracked up the entire time. Because they, the three, like Ricky, David and Phineas are like, they're the triple crown. Like they're the three stooges, you know, and they do have this camaraderie that I, they so graciously let me step into in making this album.

34:52but they definitely had an established sort of like very very close best friend and boys you know and so they were just like riffing and cracking up the entire time writing specifically those two songs so i'm kind of thinking of that did it take a while to be able to step into that and feel comfortable like just sort of i don't think i ever got comfortable oh no not in like a guys like let me in not at all that but more so like i have no interest in my voice being heard if it's not like needed sure like if i have a great line i'm not gonna be like hey guys i i have something to say but if i'm like observing them being so intellectual and funny and you know i have no interest in like hey guys remember my ego in the room well i would argue too that like there's two roles in a room like that and it's like they're both totally equal contributions which is like concepting and then actual like rhyming syllables so like my memory is that like we were all really concepting you know even down to like the the name of the bar thing right really that's not the right name you know what i mean like that is as that's an equal contribution to like saying the word acupuncture in the song it's like well what's kind of like one of us being like yeah well you're taking you're trying to make yourself feel better and you're you know you're you're shaving your beard or you're you know yeah i joined in on the razzing too like i razzed ricky about lines yeah but i think that again i think that like yeah the role is one or the other like david for like in the dream you know you write parts of the song without knowing what you're necessarily writing and so we were writing what ended up being the bridge which is that crazy run-on sentence which is uh you know i know that you want i know if you wanted to call you would you live in your car but you say you're in hollywood sold your guitar just to pay for that video you sent to the studio it's all about who you know like another one like that too that's really pre-chorus is like hard not to feel pathetic maxing out your credit card on someone's beverage yes but again it's like those are all kind of like born of the seed of like we're like what's a you're like what's a fucked up thing to do it's a fucked up thing to make a to do an american idol audition and like and mail that in and like we're talking about like you know the person that we like you know you live in la and everybody has like a distant relative or a friend who like came here with the same dream you had and like did not succeed and is either pretending that they succeeded or they're, you know, making it work, whatever it is.

37:40So, like, again, a lot of it's, like, the concept of, like, somebody who lives in their car, yeah, that's good. Okay, well, they made a music, maybe they just auditioned for American Idol or whatever, and you're like, do we say American Idol? Do we say, like, do we make it more vague? Do we say that video and, like, talk about. So, I don't know. To me, that's all kind of, like, writer's room behavior. Yeah, the one I always point to David at is we had that, like, somebody that you've met at the bar, she lives in Venice, and then we had like rhyming that like maybe your dad is a dentist and then david was like her dad was a tennis star and we were like we were like i quit yeah that was like a line i never would have thought of and it rhymed even better because you're rhyming bar but it was also just like that's what her dad is like the song the premise of that song is like you meet a nepo baby like you're you move to la broke as fuck and you go to the bar there's a really pretty girl who's clearly born a millionaire and you're like oh let me buy you a drink you're like you don't even have the money and she no money money is of no concern to this person because her dad is you know roger federer or whatever it is like to me i don't know it was such a better it's the best part of having somebody like david there where you're like oh i wouldn't have thought of that and that's even better it's way better you mentioned like the ideating part of songwriting into and then there's like the separate part which is like finding maybe like the internal rhymes of a of a song is that something that you both separately is that is that a pretty tried and true process for the both of you or for necessarily neither of you all the time i think it really changes that i typically i start like smack dab in the middle of a song and and i'll usually find like a lyric that grabs me and then I go from there.

39:29Do you know it's the middle always or does it just turn out to be like the middle? No, sometimes the middle turns out to be the beginning. But in my head, there's like a freedom to that. There was a song, Lake George started that way. I was on a walk. It was the last song that we wrote on the album. And I was staying with Phineas and Claudia and I went on a walk that morning because I'm up like god-awful 5 a.m. well before them. Wow. And I make the joke like my biggest contribution to this band is like all of my best ideas come sort of like alone and on a walk at, you know, six or seven. And I was listening to Bookends by Simon and Garfunkel.

40:13Oh, man, nice. And, you know, Lake Georgetown's is nothing like anything on that record, but it just, it sparked something. It's a story album. It's like old friends and stuff. Yeah. And I brought in like a verse and a chorus to Phineas and we went from there. Yeah, I don't know what the point I was making. Oh, concept. Yeah. I'm going to write not better, but way faster if I have a concept. If I have a thing to build and I can see it. Yeah. Like the best example maybe in my life of that was like the Barbie song Billy and I wrote. Like I'd seen the movie. I knew what scene they needed a song for.

40:55Like to me, I had like every piece of information to, to write that. Like I had all the Legos, you know what I mean? You did it like overnight, didn't you? We did it in like an hour. It was so fast. So cool. But it was because it was so informed. Like a lot of making a song is very uninformed. You're like, that's a pretty melody. What are we saying? What's the line? Who is this? Do you know what I mean? It's like a lot of discovery. Yeah. And so if you can get a kind of a, you know, foundation under your feet to like, be like, oh, I know where I'm standing. Then you can be like, I can walk that direction.

41:26And you don't worry that it'll be too on the nose if you already have this. Because then you don't have to, because you can still say anything, but it's just kind of, it's just the seed of like, what am I, what am I seeing? What am I writing about? You can still say anything is like really smart. It's a good quote. You don't have to feel locked in. Yeah. Yeah. George Duculius was telling me how he like, you guys went. George saw that. He's like, yeah, he was just asked, would they want to do it? And then like, can't watch the movie. And then like, that night, they just said it. That was a good example of like how I feel like I've been rewarded for acting this way, which is like, you know, we get put in touch with Greta Gerwig.

42:03We get sent to, I guess, Warner or wherever we were. And it was like Greta and David Heyman, who I'm like, that's that motherfucker from the Harry Potter behind the scenes DVD. Because he's produced all the Harry Potter movies. so it's like hayman greta george all with us and it was like they're again they're being like uh very effusive and accommodating you know what i mean like whatever you want to whatever you want to do and i was like what do you need like what where's the what scene do you need a song let us do that you know what i mean like i know we could do whatever but like like let's be handyman for you you know so kind of getting her to be like oh well if we could if we need one song it's really this one song for this one scene and we're like great but again it's like you kind of have to let people you have to be like i know you're being accommodated to me but i want to be helpful like i want to yeah it's like ash being like we need a guitar song for this part you know what i mean like okay great let's write a guitar song is a really big strength of phineas's though and And I think he's made me a better writer in that regard.

43:08Because I think that I do have a tendency to find something that excites me, like a lyric or a word or a title. And then I'll just sculpt away everything that isn't the song. And then you're left with like, I know what I was saying. You kind of let it reveal itself. But those make such great songs. Some of those are really good songs. but I do think, yeah, he's made me a better writer and like, let's figure out what we're talking about and then paint a picture, you know? I mean, that's also by virtue of like, Ash can do that all day long and write an amazing song alone. But if I'm going to be helpful at all, I'm like, what does that line mean?

43:46Like, you know what I mean? I mean, if you're going to be like that sort of group dynamic of writing. Well, or even just the two of us. Yeah, it's like, I'm going to write something stupid if I am not in the same like place that she's in. I've worked with some really talented songwriters who like won't divulge. Whether they know or not, they won't clue me in. To what they're... To why they're saying that line. It does them such a disservice. Yeah, I mean, it's self-consciousness or it's... Is that what it is? Privacy or whatever it is. Or vulnerability or like, fuck, I don't want to tell that person that this is what it is.

44:20Like, I really empathize, but it makes me like useless. Like, I'm like, all right, well, I can sit here and like play guitar for you, but I can't come up with a good line. I don't know what you're talking about. Do you even try in those scenarios or do you just kind of? No, I mean, like, I'll keep asking questions. But if they won't tell me, I'm like, all right, dude. Let me press record that. Yeah. I mean, I've had days with Billie where she's like, you know, been that way in the past, years ago. Usually it's before, like, a breakup. Oh. Yeah. And then you go through the breakup and you're like, right.

44:51So you kind of know, it's an early tell. You can kind of tell. Well, it's an early tell that somebody is thinking something that they're not. got telling you i mean and that's just kind of knowing any friend anytime you're like anytime you're somebody's answer is like uncomplicated like how's how have you been and they're like i've been great uh-huh you're like all right dude you if you were actually great you can tell me you could tell me why you know what i mean yeah oh this thing's been really fun and i've been really having a great time surfing whatever it is like somebody's like i've been doing great you're like all right you're lying it makes me feel good because i don't i don't think i ever give a straight answer to a question everything's everything it's all good you know i'm a rambler i had a session with tobias jesser jr before i like really knew him as a person and i was like i've never said this out loud but i think i'm gonna leave my husband wow you know and like that's what writing writing sessions are really good for if you're willing to be sort of like vulnerable and listen i mean that was a really scary thing to say out loud but you're also protected by not knowing him to some degree.

45:54Yeah. It's the comfort of strangers for sure. It's like a trial. We're on testing it out. Yeah. I said to I work with this girl Lucy Healy a lot and she's awesome. She does my job. So we do the same thing separately and then we've worked together and I said to her like five weeks ago, I was like, what do you think it is about us that makes everybody tell us all of their secrets? And you know, it's not true universally, but I do think it's like, first of all, most people are way less curious than you'd think they are. Most people are like not asking enough questions. And then I also think that we don't, we're not honest with people because of their reactions.

46:28Like we really underestimate how informed we are by reaction. You know what I mean? It's like you show your friend the thing you're proud of if you feel like they're going to see it and acknowledge it and, you know, really like understand why you're proud of it. You know what I mean? Like you really are sort of learned by your reactions to stuff. And I think one of the things that I have really learned from songwriting is like, people do low-key sit with you and tell you traumatic stuff that they've been through. Or they do what Ash did to Tobias and they tell you something that they've decided they're going to do that then is kind of your secret to keep, you know?

47:09And I think it's really important to not really bat an eye, you know? To kind of sit there and just be like, okay, you know? Well, thanks for sharing that. Now I know you more clearly. I don't know how real it is or not, but either in relation to this project or in relation to projects of yours in the past, I've heard you talk about bringing in non-musical references to sort of help shape songs, shape. Is that accurate? Imagery and stuff? Imagery. Yeah, definitely when it comes to visuals. I don't know how much it completely informed our lyricism on this record, but once we've really gotten to the meat and potatoes of the album, I was sending pictures of JFK and Jackie O, and I was like, this could be us on a sailboat.

48:01I thought you sent imagery before we even wrote songs. I might have. I thought you sent imagery so early, which I loved. I was like, great. There's definitely a Pinterest board of like Paul Newman. And I'm like, Phineas is Paul Newman. And he's going to start tucking his shirts in and wearing. And then I did. Your shirt is tucked. That's great. Yeah. And he looks so cool. You kind of have a Newman look going. It's like the casual cool lights. So funny. You know. Yeah. I think I am a real fan of like bringing people into an entire like mini universe. Okay. So when you're listening to an album, you're like, I am so clearly in this world.

48:37Whether or not we were in that world when we were making it, I just think there's something more enticing about a full picture. Yeah, Ricky, who plays guitar in our band, is aesthetically motivated like ashes. And I think his face lights up whenever I talk about what we're all going to kind of wear for the shows. I'm not saying we all wear this, but I've often been like, I really want us to look coordinated. Whatever it is, I want us to really look like a unit. To me, that's a band thing. That's the difference between a solo artist and players. If a band really looks like it has a cohesive thing, he has such good references and he's telling me style periods that I don't know about.

49:23Was he saying? 90s airport casual. And you're like, all right, man. I love that. Things where you're like, wow, okay. But whenever I look it up, I'm like, oh, yeah. That's great looking. Did you guys land on something? Yeah, we have some stuff that I won't speak out of existence here. But yeah, we have some good polls. Okay. All right. If you said it was 90s airport casual, I have no idea what it looked like anyway. I briefly went down a 90s airport casual thing and it was crazy. It's not that. It's like Woody Harrelson wearing the loudest letterman jacket in the world and tucking his pants into his socks and shit.

50:01It's insane. Phineas asked what I was going to wear today to this and I sent him a picture of the outfit and it was like secretary on lunch like everything has like its own slogan I have four outfits total in my life and I use Ash as my barometer of like formal versus casual right so like of my four outfits I'm like how formal are we going and if she goes formal I'm like alright I'm wearing a suit and if it's casual I'm like alright I'll wear my shirt although it's really cool at Hyde Park I like he brought me out which was so sweet in this we're singing to like 60 ,000 people and he went out in like a cool like Marnie like a Marnie shirt open button down and he looked so laid back and I walked on in this like full sparkle like diva'd out thing and like I saw comments that were like they're beefing like they're not they're not on the same page I thought we looked so cool.

51:01I thought so too. Actually the contrast was sick. But I was like I'm kind of down whether you think we're fighting or whatever. And I knew what you were wearing. I wore it on purpose. I was like this will look great with Ash's thing. Yeah. Yeah. You were calculated about it. I love that they thought we were fighting. I hope they always do. Yeah. That's fun. The level of like meta narrative that I feel like you know fans build around like art. I mean not even particularly you guys but you can talk about yourself. Oh my God. You want my artist in general? Can we talk about ourselves? Just kidding.

51:28No. I mean And I feel like probably through all of time, but I think certainly in the last several years, we talk about Kendrick, but it's all rap beef. Like Olivia Rodrigo's first album is Rap Beef. Yeah. Kind of. And what I say by Rap Beef is like... What can you say out loud? What I say about that is like, what we want from Rap Beef is, oh, I know who they're singing about. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And that's really what kind of is the motivator in most popular music is like, oh, snap, I know that that song is about that guy that's now dating that person. Like there is a lot of like it's we've really we're invested in it.

52:12You know, and I guess it's the rumors playbook, too. Well, exactly. It's clearly all been going around for a long time. I mean, I think that, you know, our relationship with artists on social media platforms is exacerbated. We can pick apart rumors in retrospect, but like when rumors came out, they didn't, they didn't know that that was what was going on. They just were like, wow, great songs. They sound in love. You know what I mean? And then like you, you dissect it years later, but now it's in real time. Dissecting in real time. Like how did, like, does that impact how you guys feel about stuff when you put it out?

52:42Cause it's like, as soon as something comes out, there's no like gestation. I mean, that shit drives me crazy. I like anytime I work on a project and I send somebody something and they react instantly, you know, they have a note or something. I'm like, motherfucker, sit on it. Sit on it for a day. You know what I mean? How often are you shown something and you love it immediately? Stuff takes time to process and absorb. I'm more like her. Sometimes someone sends me something, I have nothing for it. Moral of the story, which is Ash's biggest song, a year later started to blow up, which to me is a real testament to...

53:19What's the story on that? Well, the story is that it was being underserved by a label, which is true of most music in the world you know even great labels it's like it's hard to serve songs yeah didn't even get on like new music friday on spotify when it came out this was back in the period of time where i felt like playlists were kind of the the top dog and driving discovery now it's not true anymore but it was and so it just was like underserved everybody that would hear it was like this is an awesome song i'd go to her shows and like that everybody loved the song, but it just wasn't exposed.

53:53And then it got an amazing sync in a film, a Netflix film. And so then it was really, had good exposure. I mean, people still had to do leg work. They still had to like the scene in the movie and go look up the song, but they did, you know, and then it started to get really popular. Are syncs the main driver now? Is that the... No, no. They help? Yeah, syncs totally help, but people are, everybody's viewership is so frightening. It feels like the main driver is rat beef. Yes, 100%. And I think that, you know, I think Phineas and I both went into this going like, we know what they're going to do with this project.

54:29Yeah, they're going to think we're Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. Also, we're like, there isn't a lot of what we created with the favors isn't happening a ton. It's almost not. There's like a really specific lane that we stepped into that like we knew there was going to be the Fleetwood Mac comparisons and all of that. And like, that's okay. I think I really like it wasn't until Little Mess came out that we were like, oh, oh. Because we both we were in New York doing press before Little Mess came out. We're sitting on your couch and we were like, people are probably going to create a narrative for us.

55:13How do we feel about that? And how are we going to respond? And we were very casual about it. And we were very like, you know, it'll be what it's going to be. We'll see how it goes. And then Little Mess came out and it was like. Yeah, it was extreme. An initial like sort of. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the difference is like, if we were both single, I'd probably feel like no desire to defend anybody. Do you know what I mean? I'd be like, well, whatever. We are just friends, but they can think whatever they want, whatever. but I think the fact that we're both in like really long committed relationships not only do I have a desire to like be like no you guys don't understand John Ash's fiance I love John like that everything is everything is great we love that guy Claudia and I are great like not only do I have that element of it but I also think that like I don't want people to think that we're scumbags when we're not you know what I mean like I think that's kind of more than anything else Yeah, I think that more than anything else, you're like, no, no, no, no.

56:15Don't think that we're like bad people or, you know, not that not that you're a bad person. You have an affair, but don't think we're don't think we're doing an illicit thing. It's more fun, too, by the way, that it's not. Well, it's more. It's definitely safer. It's definitely like going to make our careers longer. You know what I mean? Like there's no. Maybe our lives longer. Oh, my God. I was having some conversation with somebody the other day about somebody else that I will not name. And I was like, oh, yeah, I mean, they're, you know, they don't talk. And they were like, why? And I was like, well, they had an affair.

56:45And they were like, why don't they talk? And I was like, what do you mean? They had an affair, dude. Like, there is no, like, it is so rare to do a destructive thing and then salvage any form of your relationship after that. You know what I mean? Like, even if you're the people having an affair, you're like, it's going to be bad. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, again, it's like, I think somebody said they were like, it's you guys, but it's not you guys like it really is like the it's the same to me as your music video persona right ash stars in an ash music video she's tap dancing there are backup dancers whatever there's like an interesting narrative thing it's not really her but it is really her right like it's kind of like how we are when we're live that's exactly what i'm saying like yeah the hudson music video which i love is like we're running around new york we're holding hands we're singing to each other we're dancing on top of a chess set like it's not us it is us because we're singing the song and it's us in the video and we're friends but it's like it's it's fulfilling a narrative kind of like we're talking about in all things it's like you're really trying to like show people the narrative that the song is articulating yeah you know one last break and we'll be back with phineas and ash of the favors In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal.

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1:01:00Machines that make you feel more human. Because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing. Experience amazing at your Lexus dealer. i want to pick back up the hudson thread but i want but before moving to that i want to go back to like what you said earlier which is that like you you stepped you guys both stepped squarely into like a genre yeah i was shocked how little that's actually happened like outside of like johnny cash and like june carter have done some stuff or like tammy winette and like george jones like you know but there's it's like it's a lot of country and then it's like fleetwood lady gaga and Tony Bennett.

1:01:36Lady, like, straight up. You know, yeah. Yeah, right. There's those. There's those. And yeah, then there's like one-off, you know, like one-offs. Like, you know, but. Yeah, like Islands in the Stream. Yeah, exactly. The duets that have been famously famous, but. But a whole album. Yeah. Like, in this vein. That's like the Civil Wars and Fleetwood Mac. And, you know, there's probably others that I'm, I mean, like, this is, like the Marias are in that boat right now. There's like Josh and Maria both singing and writing and she's really like singing, you know, 90 % of it. That was another important thing I think to Phineas and I was we didn't want it to just be like a duet record.

1:02:20You know, we wanted to be sort of like parallel singing with each other and either in unison or harmony. But if we're in harmony, you're not really sure who's doing the harmony and who's doing the lead. Like that was an important piece of us creating it. I'm not even sure you're sure who's doing that, like in the songs, like who's doing what narratively, unless you really focus maybe on like the pronouns or, but if you just sort of, or just kind of letting it wash over, you're just like, who did one? There's a crazy TikTok that went viral of us singing Till Forever Falls Apart. And the camera's only on me, but it's you singing.

1:02:54And everyone's like, oh my God, I thought she is the, like the boyish. But yeah, I think it's a cool, we do blend really nicely too that that was like a stroke of luck of being good friends that sound good together you know yeah how did the whole thing come together and how did like the favors how did like you know obviously you guys have collaborated to degree before well i mean the real Impetus was I was taking A pretty big like musical Hiatus And Was very unsure About returning to Making music again and For loads of reasons for Burnout reasons for You know being a little disillusioned By the music Industry or entertainment industry But also just like not having dealt with serious trauma in my life yada yada so i took i was like goodbye world in february of 2023 yep and like two months into that like therapy and whatnot i started like what can i be creative in other ways and I started writing this like script that was about a band and I was like what they like imagine there's these two characters and they're going on this whatever we want to start a band blah blah blah and then I was like I know nothing about writing scripts for one so you're an idiot and for two I've never been in a band and so if I want to be a writer I should read more and I need to start a band and like probably fulfill that.

1:04:47I've written some scripts too. And I've read so few of them that like when I'm writing, I'm like exterior, I guess. Like I'm writing, I'm like, God. Daylight. Yeah. I always joke anytime anyone's like, are you going to write a book ever? I'm like, I'd have to read one first. Like, like there's like, like I'm good at making music because I love listening to music. You know what I mean? Like, sorry. that's the thing i love absolutely um i sort of was like that's a dumb idea why am i trying to do that and then i hit phineas and was like hear me out you know do you want to try this thing with me and it was such an immediate yes i do you want to start a band i was like hear me out we start a band and we put out one album or whatever we write, we cut that's the album we put it out, play a week or two of shows and call it a day and you know he replied all caps like um yes please and then this solves all my problems which is really sweet and six months later we were making the album what made you so receptive to it at that point because you you i in my mind you'd collaborated with more people than you had like when i went back and i was like yeah i actually collaborated with as many people as i thought and so it is you know um like why do you take a chance uh love ash like love that you know the idea of getting to work with her more sounded so fun i think it was so kind of like even though it wasn't it felt so sort of like clearly conceived i was like oh i can picture that obviously i i pictured you know you can't like i didn't picture the 12 songs we ended up with and whatever but i was like oh i can see that i can see loving that i can see thinking that's great um and it was also like one of those things where like the other rule is like say yes to the thing you'd be jealous of if somebody else did it you know yeah for sure i I mean, like that's been, you know, not to toot our own horn, but like the last year of kind of like when it's been wrapping up and I've told some people about it, they're like, damn.

1:06:59Yeah. That's really cool. I think because it just scratches a lot of like the itch of why all of us do this. Like it's kind of like the album's called The Dream, but like the dream that we all kind of had in like high school was like, dude. I'm going to be in the band. What if me and my best friends were in this band and then we got to play whatever, you know, Austin City Limits or something. And like, yeah, you make these sort of compromises along, like, you know, has it been a complete dream come true that I've gotten to like do all this stuff with my sister? Oh my God. Yes. It's been the best thing in the world.

1:07:38And I love working with her. I'll work with her until I die. I love working with her. I loved touring with her all those years. I didn't have the mental capacity to picture that growing. You know what I mean? Yeah. When I'm 15, Billy's 11, right? I'm not like, dude. That is no one. You know what I mean? It's fine. Well, it's just like too hard to imagine. If somebody had said like, would that be cool to you? I'd be like, of course that'd be cool to me. I didn't know that was an option. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I, like I always joke, like my high school dreams were like, I want my band to open for a band that plays the Fonda Theater in LA, which is like 1 ,200 people.

1:08:11That's like how big my dreams were. they were very small sounds awesome you know and again so i think i think telling people over the past year like well yeah ash and i like we're gonna start a band and it's got a band name we're just gonna do like cool one-off shows kind of we're not gonna like hit the road hard we're gonna do like just some shows and yeah it's been really fun and so i think people in there it's the same way i felt when i when she invited me to do it i was like oh that sounds fun and cool and then to be honest like everybody i've played the record for whether it's like people in the label business or like you know like paul cartwright who played the strings on the album like they really i think that we had so much fun making it that they just get it like they hear it and they're like oh yeah like it it's taken no translating time i've been making this analogy to ash for a few months now that like what I've tried to do several times in my career is like the music equivalent of like when you go to a fancy restaurant and you're not quite sure what you're eating, but it's good, right?

1:09:16They're like, there's an emulsifier and this, and like you end up eating like two dollops. There's like a dollop of this and like a strange cracker that looks like a daisy. And you're like, wow. And you take a bite and you're like, I'm not even sure what that is. And I think I like it. And I know this is nice and interesting but it takes some time and then maybe a month later you're like that restaurant was really good like that was crazy but it's such an adjustment yep and i always joke that like what we've made is like this is spaghetti and it's marinara and there is fresh basil and you're like i love spaghetti dude like there's a kind of a like straight but it might not be the most original never been done before thing but it's like you're you like this like this is jeans and a t-shirt like this is it has been done so like i said it was surprising like it felt like it had been done much more than it hadn't hadn't but the band thing of course yeah it's been done but also feels like the band thing is a bit of a it's like we're a little far away from it you know at this point it doesn't feel like yeah if you want to be successful don't start a band like no one would have probably recommended it but good thing we were doing it in total secret you know we didn't you know tell any and one of the public we had didn't tell our managers we were very very private about the whole thing and really the people that phineas brought in to the secret was david and ricky you know who became a part of it yeah uh and it was so safe and the other magic of a band name too is it takes a little bit of the identity away in a fun way where you're like oh like are you guys the favors and you're like yes and then you're like is david are david and rat part of the favors you're like yeah like it's a band you know what i mean like Like, it's sort of, yeah, it's us on the cover, but it's like, that's the fun part about a band in general.

1:11:02Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. The Hudson. We've talked a lot about LA, kind of, I feel like, geographically. And you're in Nashville, and I feel like some of that was brought to bear. So the Hudson is a bit of a, it's a gorgeous song on the album. Love it. There's a lot of New York on this record. I mean, Lake George is in New York. Times Square Jesus is New York. home sweet home is a bar on the Lower East Side. So it's a lot of New York. It's more New York than LA. But it's interesting because we wrote the album and did it all in LA. And it does have this very New York identity to it. And I think like Phineas and I both have a very like sweet and romantic, you know, relationship with New York.

1:11:49Like my first trip to New York, I was like falling in love with a guy that was an alcoholic and like, Oh my God. Was like not very good to me. And like, and then that's it. The city became that for a while. And then I went with someone I was in a good relationship with and I loved and it became, you know, so, and I think similarly, you had told me that. My high school girlfriend moved away to New York to go to college. And so I had such a like young and immature feeling of like choosing this you know choosing this place over choosing like any semblance of a you know relationship with me I was like oh my god you're moving away from your whole life and and me as part of it damn and so i was like new york is your david's brother oh i was like mad at new york the city mad at it you know and then i'd like go to new york in that chip on your shoulder way of like this isn't so special you know which of course it is dude new york is the best yeah but like well the best is strong It's very great.

1:12:50It is an amazing city. And I think that, again, it's a testament to our relationships with people informing our relationships with places. I mean, Ash is my Nashville friend. I go to Nashville, I'm like, yay, I get to see Ash. I don't know how I feel about Nashville. I just know I like the person that lives there, so I get to hang out with her. These places are informed by your history with them. LA, for me, California for Ash, I grew up there. So it's like my whole life is informed the way I feel about L.A., you know. So it's easy to write about L.A. because it's where I've lived my whole life.

1:13:25But, yeah, New York is a kind of a ghost story. And you were at least partially raised San Jose? Yeah. Yeah? Fully raised San Jose? Fully raised. I was there until 19, and then I went to college in Boston. And then Nashville was my first, like, pit stop, but after college. Do you feel connected to San Jose still? California. No one. You know, none of my family is there anymore. They all left and people divorced and family died. And, you know, there's not like a sweetness to it anymore. L.A. feels more like home in California now. I lived there for eight years. Yeah. So, and my, like, two of my closest friends live here.

1:14:15and there's Phineas and like, yeah, it's a different, I have a different relationship with LA now than the old home. But also, I mean, an album, there's kind of like the three, there's like the three places that you just keep having to go to. Like we had to go to New York and do a bunch of promo, which is fun, but like somewhere you have to go to. Go to like London, which we just did too. There's like, it is like, there's no right place to live when you're making an album because you have to go to the other place. You don't have to go to Nashville. I guess if you're not making a country record, you kind of don't have to go to Nashville.

1:14:49But it's the same deal where you're always kind of pulled off to do some other thing. But you know all the storytellers in Nashville want us there. We should go. Yeah, at some point. I want to ask about one more song and then I want to ask you guys to play the Hudson. That's right. Ordinary People. It's an outlier on the record. Sure. And you guys went full jazz, which was awesome. I loved it. The first song. Like I brought in the Hudson, but we sat on your couch and wrote ordinary people in like an hour. But like my memory is like we sat on the couch writing ordinary people while Claudia like put on her Halloween costume.

1:15:29Yeah. Wow. Before we went to a Halloween party. Yeah. Baking an olive cake for us or something. Yeah. That sounds like the scene of the song. I mean, that was the fun part about making the whole record was it was little vignette after little vignette of like. oh, let's all go sit by the pool. And like, you know, I had a real kind of atmosphere, which I liked. Because sometimes, like the thing that has kept me out of traditional music studios is like, yes, there is an atmosphere, of course, but like it is different from real life. And I like the atmosphere of like, yeah, my dog is in the living room with me and I'm kind of on the couch thinking about that and getting my head straight.

1:16:11So yeah, the jazz song, I think was like, what if we wrote a little jazz song. A diddy. And then kind of did that call and response, like, baby, it's cold outside thing. And yeah, you crack up during part of it. I laughed on mic, which was fun. Which was a demo. It was a live take. Yeah. And then we re-recorded it and I was like, no, the live take is so great. Just put out the live take. But yeah, I mean, I think that that song, which is totally an outlier, is sort of a like, this can be whatever we want. and the only thing that we're trying to care about is quality control, right? If we'd written a really bad jazz song, we'd be like, all right, well.

1:16:51We'll cut that for sure. That was fun, but we'll take that off. But it was just kind of had like a joy to it that I was like, this is cute. And kind of a - You literally giggle. It's kind of a bite of ginger, you know. It's like, oh, it's a little palate cleanser in the middle of this record that's pretty, like that's not a heartbreaking song at all. That's a very sweet, lovey-dovey song. Yeah. what's that line of like you say we're no good for each other you're too selfish for a lover which I think is so funny oh and then don't worry I'll be early I'm not ready is cute too but I'll wait I'll just wait outside but I don't know it was just like a really cute like that again so in that fictional vein of like who are these characters and what are these moments and how do we build this kind of you know aesthetic I wanted it made me I fell in love with those characters.

1:17:40Cool. That's awesome. Me too. I love them. Yeah. I think they're really special. There's a lyric on the Hudson, just want to ask you guys to play that, like, to me, like, just, I didn't hear it the first couple of times I listened, but then it was like, you know, after a handful of times, I don't know what I believe, have faith in me. Oh, yeah. Or, I don't know what I believe, have faith in me, I put my trust in you. The only truth I know is you. The only truth I know is you. Great Ash line, man. That's you. Yeah. Amazing. That whole song is Ash. It's so great. Well, second verse is, oh, Phineas.

1:18:19My couplet. On the balcony, I gave you my coat to sit on the balcony. I'd catch a cold if it keeps you warm. Catch a cold, that's a great line, too. If that's not the most Phineas-ass lyric. That's a great line, too. But such great lyrics on that song. I like heard a joke, not joke. That's like every great song is a worship song. And I was like, whoa. And they were like kind of talking about the Hudson in that context. And I was like, oh shit. We do say, I don't know what I believe. Please have faith in me. The only truth I know is you. And I'm like, whoa. Religious. Like you could sing it in church maybe.

1:18:59Yeah. Sure. But yeah. that was like the one of the first lines ash played for me was like the like the trees were bare naked and so were we and i was like oh that's such a like that has so much feeling to me in it and it kind of comes out of nowhere which i really liked two old strangers sharing really personal things i was like i'm a good songwriter that's that's a great i was really proud of that one that's a great yeah on your paul simon shit it's awesome that no that made me think of uh still crazy after all these years you know I saw an old lover on the street last night you know I was like oh my god it's like insane you know but obviously wasn't like but it just was like oh my god this is really amazing stuff should we close it out with the song be great let's do it thanks you were late for the last train home

1:19:56we had a way of losing track of of time The trees were bare naked and so were we Two old strangers sharing really personal things Watch the sun ascend on my Hudson He touched my head and kissed my neck Said you forgot how good I felt on your lips I thought, God, I hope she remembers this I don't know where I belong All I've ever known is gone I've got nothing but you to lose

1:20:59I don't know what I believe Please have faith in me The only truth I know is you

1:21:12You took my coat Sit on the balcony I catch a cold if it keeps you warm

1:21:27Lake was frozen And so were we We won't know We won't make it to spring I don't know where I belong All I've ever known is gone I've got nothing but you to lose I don't know what I believe Please have faith in me The only truth I know is you

1:22:09Let's meet back here a year from now Maybe then it works out I'll try not to think about you and you Come December and come the storm Fall back into my arms Walk the heights and back to you

1:22:36I don't know where I belong All I've ever known is gone I've got nothing but you to lose

1:22:50I don't know what I believe Please have faith in me The only truth I know is you

1:23:04The only truth I know is you

1:23:12The only truth I know is you

1:23:28In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite songs from Phineas and from Ash, as well as The Favors album. Be sure to check out youtube.com slash brokenrecordpodcast to see all of our video interviews. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at The Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tallade. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

1:24:00Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.

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