Why Would I Do That to Jennifer Lopez? | Revisionist History

0:09In 2001, Tommy Mottola, then the head of Sony Music Entertainment, called Murder Inc.'s Irv Gotti, who at the time was working with the likes of Jay-Z, Ashanti, and DMX. Tommy asked Gotti to do a remix of Jennifer Lopez's I'm Real, which became a huge radio hit and led to more remixes with J-Lo. In the world of hip-hop and crossover pop in the early aughts, Irv Gotti was at the top of his game. And then, admittedly, he messed up. Big time. In the latest season of Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell is looking at the origins and consequences of mistakes. Why we make them, the context in which we make them, and what happens after we make them.

0:46Here's a story of Gotti's mistake and what it tells us not about the individual who makes the mistake, but the witnesses who watch it happen. Enjoy the episode and find more Revisionist History wherever you get podcasts.

1:23Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase and Company.

1:38This guy calls me like seven in the morning. I'm like, Tommy, what's up? In 2001, the head of Sony Music, Tommy Mottola, called the rap producer Irv Gotti. At the time, Gotti worked with Jay-Z, Ja Rule, Ashanti, DMX. In the hip-hop world of the early aughts, he was at the top of his game. He's like, yo, I need you to make a record. And I said, what? He said, make a record with J-Lo and put Ja on it and make it a duet. And I said, yo, I need total creative autonomy. I'm doing whatever the fuck I want. Tommy was like, you can do whatever the fuck you want, as long as it's a duet with Ja Rule and J-Lo.

2:21Mottola wanted Gotti to do a remix of I'm Real, a single off J-Lo's second album. The first time around, it had been a generic ballad. Mottola thought it could be reinvigorated. Gotti went to work and started to make a demo with Ja Rule and Ashanti. I said, yo, I got the record. He said, I'm real. Him and his wife, Talia, come to the crack house, my studio in Soho. And it's funny because the freight elevator and used to always go out. So him and Talia walked up six flights of stairs. He gets upstairs. He said, this fucking record better be fucking good. So I play it real for him. Him and his wife go crazy.

3:02They're like, oh, my God. It was a one listen. They listened, and it was like, it's the biggest record. So he puts me on a private jet. I fly to L.A., record the record with J-Lo. Next thing you know, the record comes out. It's all over the radio. I'm talking about maybe a couple days after we recorded it. It's all over the radio.

3:34A few months later, Gotti made another remix from J-Lo's album, Ain't It Funny. The same thing happened. You don't even understand Those records was colossal Not just in the States On the planet Earth I don't give a fuck if you went to Germany, Australia, Africa That shit was in heavy rotation Look, those was the two biggest records And for me to do I'm Real And instead of Fuck It And did Ain't It Funny It was like At that point in my life I was like on top of the world It was a feeling of Invincibility it was a feeling of I could do whatever the fuck I want. To portray who I was at that moment, that's who I was.

4:20I'm from the hood. I'm making all of this money. I'm producing records for everybody. All of them are working and going number one. And money's raining from the sky. I could do no wrong. It was at this point that Irv Gotti made a mistake. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This is the third episode in our mini-series inspired by Michael Linton and Josh Steiner's book, From Mistakes to Meaning, where the authors sit down with a wide range of people and try to make sense of their biggest screw-ups. One of their interviews was with Irv Gotti, just before Gotti had a stroke and died at the age of 54.

5:06I listened to the interview and I found his story so moving that I asked Steiner and Linton if I could include it in this series. Because in his story, I think, is a really important lesson. Not about the person who makes the mistake, but about the people around the person who makes the mistake. The witnesses.

5:37This is Gotti talking to Linton and Steiner about his childhood and growing up in Queens.

5:56and change. You wake up every day, you wake up in a puddle of sweat. Like, that was my life. It was a lot of love. My family, the most loving family, but we had nothing. So when you talk about

6:16the shit you talk about, I'm not, I don't give a fuck, yo. I'm getting money, oh, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna work my ass off and get it. I don't give a fuck what comes from it. He was blunt, reckless, ambitious, and hugely talented. His rise in the music world was swift. It was no accident that Mottola called Gotti to work with Jennifer Lopez, then well on her way to becoming one of the biggest celebrities in America. And when the two of them met at Gotti's recording studio, Gotti from Queens, J-Lo from the Bronx, they click. Just so you know what to expect, we're giving you the unfiltered gaudy.

6:58So I had like 30 hood niggas in the studio and in walks J-Lo, and she was straight Jenny from the block. She had on some sweatpants and a tank top. And if I tell you, she got in that studio and she had every one of my guys fall in love with her. She worked and talked to everybody, and I was just like, yo, she's just so dope. You know what I'm saying? Because she could have been on some I'm a big star bougie shit, but she was the total opposite. The biggest sex symbol, biggest superstar, got on some sweatpants, her ass was looking fucking phenomenal. She worked, she literally worked the whole room.

7:47Like, when she left, every guy was like, yo, she dope. I think she liked me. I'm like, yo, dog, she's, she worked with us, yo. She worked the fucking room. But I thought it was so dope of her. And me and her, specifically, yo, we hit it off. Benny Medina, her manager. Benny Medina was like, Irv, you're going to be like the Quincy Jones to her Michael Jackson. He was like, we're not doing nothing musically unless you're involved. A year later, Elle magazine decided to do a cover story on Jennifer Lopez. It was for their sex and body issue. June 2002, headline, Big Letters, J-Lo, on fashion, that song, and Puffy.

8:39Puffy referred to Puffy Combs, the infamous rap impresario who she'd just broken up with. and that song referred to Ain't It Funny because Gotti's reinterpretation of the song turned it into the story of someone coming out of a very problematic relationship. The writer asks her, is that song about Puffy? She says, no, it's not. Then the reporter calls Gotti. J-Lo says Ain't It Funny isn't about Puffy. What do you say? And Gotti says, oh, it's absolutely about Puffy. And J-Lo knows it. Here's the exact quote from the Elle magazine article, which, by the way, is nearly impossible to find now. My producer had to get someone at the New York Public Library to unearth the issue from an off-site storage unit.

9:29I ain't gonna lie, we was thinking of effing with Puffy because that's what the world wants to hear. And Gotti tells the reporter a story about running into Puffy before Ain't It Funny came out and playing him the demo. He says, You know the four seasons on Doheny in L.A.? I pull up and Puff's out there with his security, and I say, Puff, come listen to the new record I did with your old bitch. So boom, he gets in the car. So I'm blasting the record, and when it gets to the second verse, he jumps out of the car screaming, Gotti, you bastard! This is the second verse. Listen.

10:17He calls J-Lo's ex-boyfriend into his car and says, come listen to the new record I just did with your old bitch. In a very public way, Gotti was essentially saying, Jennifer Lopez wasn't being honest. He called her credibility into question. When I read it in Elle magazine, J-Lo, quote, Those records are not about Puff Daddy, end quote. It was, it's the worst mistake I've ever made in my life. Because I say that to say, because J-Lo, Benny Medina, they was friends. They loved me. They loved me. Like, I was a rider for them, and I would do things for them that probably no one else could do, and I would get done for them.

11:12and she was my friend. Like, why the fuck would I say that? Why the fuck would I say that? But Gotti didn't stop there. He kept going. Right?

11:29So I went on to say other damaging things. Like, how would she know? She didn't write the records. We made the records and wrote the records. She just did what we said. So she don't know who the fuck we was talking about. And yeah, we was talking about Diddy.

11:48And then I said some more damaging shit. I was like, guys like me, we don't listen to J-Lo's music. I made guys like me listen to J-Lo's music. I said, before then, we just hit the mute button and looked at our ass. Yeah. Gotti reflected on this with Michael Linton and Josh Steiner when they spoke. Wow. And you can pull all this up in the Elle magazine. It's there. Those are vivid quotes. Those are like supreme asshole quotes that wasn't warranted. And when I look back, I was like, what did you do to your friend? Yeah. So needless to say, it ruined my relationship with J-Lo. I apologized. I sent her candy and flowers and apologized a million times.

12:45And I was high. That's no excuse. You know what I'm saying? I apologized. And she accepted my apology, but it forever damaged y 'all relationship. Right. You know, superstars like J-Lo, they have a small circle of people who they could trust. And I think I was in there for a second. and I totally ruined it. Right. So I'm an asshole. Well, you were in that moment. I'm totally in the wrong, and I'm a complete idiot. Make sure you say that, that I said that I'm a complete idiot. She didn't warrant that. She didn't warrant nothing that I said. She was my friend. And why would I do that with the biggest star and most beautiful person.

13:37Why, how did I do that with J-Lo?

13:50Small businesses are the pulse of every community. They bring people together, create opportunities, and drive growth. With a widespread presence in communities across the country, Chase for Business supports small business owners at a local level. That makes it possible for you to connect, learn from each other, and grow together. There's a real commitment to seeing small businesses succeed. The Chase for Business team has knowledge and expertise that span a wide range of financial areas. They can help you make informed decisions as you navigate the complexities of running your business. They'll help your business grow with individual guidance and convenient digital tools all in one place.

14:28With that guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community. Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA member, FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase and Company. This year, experience the NHL playoffs your way. Want to watch a single? Do or die Game 7, a full week of heavy hitting back and forth series. Then check out Sling's 1-3 and 7-day passes. Watch the chase for the cup on ESPN and TNT, starting as low as$4.99.

15:13No long-term contracts or overpaying. Just live hockey at home or when you want it. Sling lets you do that. Visit Sling.com to learn more.

15:56One of the themes we've tried to explore in this series is that mistakes have roots. They aren't random events. They come from somewhere. They arise out of a context, but the context often isn't obvious, not to those around the mistake-maker and often not even to the mistake-maker themselves. In Gotti's case, the context was a telephone call he'd been on just before the reporter called. It was with a prominent music industry executive. Gotti asked that the man's name not be used, so we're going to bleep out every mention of his name. All you need to know is that the executive is white and Gotti was black.

16:35The two of them had an argument. One of Gotti's artists had played a part in a hit song and was in the music video, but had been left out of the radio version. And Gotti was unhappy about it. So, I was like, yo, you're killing my artists. You got them on the video, but on radio, he's not there. It's sending, like, mixed signals. Why are you hurting me? Their argument got heated. The executive said it wasn't his fault. The decision was someone else's at his label. A black man. He was like, I told that fat nigga not to put this out. But when he said the N-word, oh, that's when I went crazy. Wow.

17:19I said, what the fuck you say? I said, you just called Corey Rooney a nigga? I said, when this nigga see you, I'm going to fuck you up. I said, how about that? And he was like, Irvin, and we arguing. but he said he used the N word on some racist shit he said I told that fat nigga not to put the record out or put him on yeah but when he said nigga I went that's that's that's the anger yeah I'm not a volatile person I'm not a pop off I would describe myself as a cool guy level headed but it's something about when a white person like uses the word nigga to me, oh, I'm ready to kill. Because it's like, you start thinking of all of the fucked up shit that black people been through and you got the audacity to say nigga in front of me.

18:23Oh, I'm going to show you a nigga now. You know what I'm saying? Like I used to always say, like when people would ask me, how would you be able, how would you think you would be able to operate in those times of racism? And I always answer, I would die. You know what I'm saying? Because I couldn't take the racism that would have been bestowed upon me. I would have killed me a couple of white people and they would have hung me and killed me and my life would be over. I couldn't take them doing something to my mother or, you know, hanging my father and I'm living life. Nah, you're going to have to kill me too.

19:08So these are the thoughts that's in my mind. Yeah. Have you experienced that before where you had white people say things? A lot of my white friends say, yo, that's my nigga, but I'm not mad at that. Yeah. used it. When they say that's my nigga, it's N-I-G-G-A. He said, yo, I told that fat nigga, that's N-I-G-G-E-R. It's a big, big difference. Like, I couldn't believe that he just used the N-word to me. That's what made me so volatile. And it was so weird. It was like, as soon as I hung up with The phone rang with L. It wasn't like a five minute. It wasn't even like a five minute cool off period.

19:55No. Hung up. Yo, this is L Magazine. Yo, what the fuck y 'all want? Sort of like saying hello. A little different. Can I ask, so what do you think it was that made you, you think you were just going to lash out at anybody who showed up in that moment? Uh, yeah, within that five minutes, yeah. They was going to get the exact same vibe. What the fuck you want? Yeah. He just went after New Zealand Magazine, not one of my boys. Yeah, so I said, what the fuck you want? And he was like, oh, I see. Like, as soon as he heard that response, he immediately cut to the chase. He said, oh, I'll just get right to it.

20:49You know, J-Lo said that the records, I'm Really, Ain't It Funny, are not about Puff Daddy, her ex-boyfriend. And I was like, what? That bitch is lying. This was Irv Gotti's mistake. It changed his life. There was a version of the next 20 years where he could have been a creative partner with one of the biggest stars in the world. He had ideas for movies, collaborations. J-Lo was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. That's why this was a mistake. It had consequences. But there was a point in Gotti's interview with Steiner and Linton that I couldn't get out of my mind. Listen. How quickly did you realize that you'd made a mistake?

21:39I didn't realize quickly. I was so angry and mad when I got off the phone with Elle magazine. I thought nothing of it. It hit me when they sent me like the transcripts of what they was going to print. How long after that was that? A couple, a week or so, I would say. And when you read that, did you realize it right away? Yeah, I was like, don't print that. but they was like it's too late they loved it they loved it and they said it was too late and I was trying to get them not to print it but they wasn't they were like hey buddy you said it yeah did you get any help to try to get them not to do it or did you just let it go I let it go I gave it my effort look after my effort out there.

22:38I just let it go. He realized he'd made a mistake, that in his anger at one person, he had said something he didn't mean to another. And when he tried to prevent his mistake from having consequences, from turning into a serious mistake, he was told, hey, buddy, you said it. It's too late. After Linton and Steiner's book came out, I interviewed them on stage at the 92nd Street Y in New York, and I brought up their chapter on Gaudi. So, who's the villain of the story? Not every story has to have a villain. No, but tell me who the villain of the story is. So don't, Michael, don't fall for this. Like, this is okay.

23:18This is why he's so good. But don't fall for his trap. Like, okay, you can say not every story is a villain. Well, I got to keep the conversation going. I would argue it was the executive who used the N-word. Josh, who's the villain of the story? Here's what I think. That guy acted terribly. There is no villain in the story. And I think an important piece of what we tried to describe is that there isn't always a villain. There isn't always some outside danger. There isn't always some consequence that has been derived from a villain. That these things are deep-rooted in ourselves. And we're not villainous.

23:53And so that aspect of our personality doesn't make us bad. This isn't a morality test. This is an opportunity to explore oneself and come to terms and acceptance. of the fact that we're flawed, and the way to get hopefully healthier and better is to talk about it. Who do you think the villain is? A man who has a very close relationship to the biggest rock star in the world, a relationship that has resulted in extraordinary commercial success, is called by a reporter and is asked a question about that relationship. And in the course of answering that question, the man says, oh, she's a liar. Who's the villain in the story?

24:27Do you think it's Irv? No? It's the reporter! But the reporter doesn't. No, no, no, no. This is a crucial, crucial point, Michael. Okay. And I think this is because it's about when mistakes are made and they are as deeply rooted as you suggest they are. The whole argument of the book is a mistake can come out of the spur of the moment, but it's not something that's coming out of the spur of the moment. It's something that has roots. Right. And what does that require of those who observe and are part of the process in which the mistake is played out? It requires some degree of grace and forgiveness and understanding.

25:10Yeah. So the reporter hears some Irv Gotti say something that is completely out of place. Right? The reason that story, so that story, what is an important detail is here is it goes, it's all across the country. It's like, it's huge. That's why it blows up so much. Everyone seizes on this. Her longtime collaborator called J-Lo a liar, right? If you are the reporter in that instance and someone says something they shouldn't say, your obligation is to say, wait, why did you say that? And if they can't give you a satisfactory answer, your obligation is not to use it. I'm sorry, it's not to use it.

25:52You're not, you shouldn't, you can't make someone, the reporter turned that from a nothing into a destruction of someone's career because they had not the slightest concern for his well-being or his reputation. And if they had an ounce of self-understanding or of general understanding, they would have understood that he didn't mean to say that. They should at the very least have said, did you mean to say that? Right? That's your responsibility and the reporter failed in that fundamental. Why do people hate the press? Because in an interview like this where we could talk for three hours and you say one thing out of place because you have to be irritated about something else and the reporter runs on that one thing, that's malpractice.

26:36Why is this person getting a pass? That's terrible. I'm sorry, I'm really upset about this. I was upset about this because you can't do this if you're a journalist. The whole profession works on an implied contract. Somebody grants you the gift of their time and attention and thoughts. They make themselves vulnerable. And in return, you pledge to respect that vulnerability. You're not a stenographer. You've entered for the duration of the interview into an intimate relationship. And intimate relationships have rules. But then I went home after that interview at the Y, after I had called the reporter a villain and a disgrace to our profession, and I realized, I don't even know who this person is.