Wyclef Jean - Live from On Air Fest

20:54So I only tell you this so you understand how my brain works. So we went to a garage sale, music store. Now, for my nerds that are watching this, let's just run through three things, which is important. We bought a 456 Ampex reel, big tape machine. So like when you be seeing the Freddie Mercury and then they cut tapes for the backgrounds, it was very important. The tape machine, you got 24 tracks, right? The 24th is the SMPTE. That's where the noise come in and you try to stay away from that. That was one. A second thing we bought was an old MCI board. Shout out to Warren Riker, one of the engineers.

21:32And this old MCI board just sounded warm. And then we just built a bunch of patch bays around that. Again, we did this ourselves. like the way Steve Jobs was doing what was in his garage. It was like, why go to pay a million dollars for a Neve board or an SSL when the soul is inside of your brain, inside of your heart, right? So we just figured it out. So in saying that, that was the mystery. So we did the score inside of that basement. And you have to imagine this is 30-something years ago. This is 30 years ago dating today. So now a child like my daughter or my niece, they literally can just pop their computer and do music right from wherever they are around the world.

22:19So I just say that to show you how advanced and how far ahead we were when it came to the technology.

22:27Justin Richmond:Yeah. Yeah. What's the first thing you make with all that? You get the patch base set up. You got everything together. What's one of the first things, at least that made the album, that you do? I would say, like, along with that, I was obsessed with Pink Floyd, The Wall. So I needed something that had space in it. You know what I'm saying? So one of the early joints was The Mask.

22:54Have you ever worn The Mask? And this is long before COVID. Like, rappers have a way of saying shit, and then years later, they're going to be like, he was Nostradamus. You called it. the mask was one of the early ones because of the i don't know if it was like the jazz influence and everything um it was pretty amazing um shout out to john forte who we passed all right he was like you know one one of the the architects with the score like i would say like the score it was like the best of like motown stacks band um so um we just used to horn in and people always talk about so we were the refugees and then on the other side of town we had the outsiders and then so you had two different cliques the outsiders eminem was part of the outsiders um then akon was part of the refugees so when you hear fuji la the remix that's akon are you serious yeah yeah oh am i i'm giving y 'all y 'all done know everything man am i breaking trivia yeah so So Akon is like my little brother, brother.

24:00So we was working on the score. Akon used to come around and be like, yo, man, listen to this. Listen to this. And he would be playing his music for me. But we're touring. And I was like, so before we finished the score, I was like, yo, the score cannot finish without putting this kid on it. And then so now when you hear the Fujila remix, now when you go back and listen, that's Akon on that. So I only say that, so we said that Akon and then Eminem and them, they crew, Eminem was part of the Outsiders. Then when Eminem had left the Outsiders, he went to Detroit to do what he's doing. When we did the score, we brought in the Outsiders.

24:39So we wanted to show that unity. So on the song Cowboys, it's like the refugees and the Outsiders getting all together, you know, John Forte and everybody. So there's a whole cool background of the history. I just keep thinking about all of the names that you're dropping in your incredible record of collaboration. You know, Salam Remy, The Neville Brothers, Akon, Shakira, Whitney Houston, Santana, Destiny's Child. When you are deciding who to collaborate with or building requests for a collaboration, what is your North Star in deciding who to make music with? because you have a pretty good track record.

25:24Yeah, no, thanks. I think that for me, I don't even think of it like a collaboration. I've always thought of it like how I could compose something for someone. So like, for example, like you hear Shakira, Hips Don't Lie, but I did that. Everybody heard that song. Yeah, but I did that two years before Shakira. It was on a movie called Havana Nights, a dance like this. So a lot of my, what I do is always based on the mind of a composer. Now, when I write these records, I never think of myself. Because for me, when I'm doing my music, I just think too deep. You know what I mean? I'd be like, if I was president, I'd get elected on Friday.

26:04They'd be like, that shit ain't gonna play on the radio. But when it comes to artists, I'm always a fan. And then I would demo the record. And that's how I end up staying on a lot of that stuff. How do you know when to say no to a collab? Well, the thing is, I always say I have to be able to give something back to the artist, right? And it's deeper than that. You know what I'm saying? I was touched the other day when I received some flowers from Beyonce, you know? And then she was like, yo. I mean, they kind of, like, Destiny's Child popped off because of you. Yeah, but it was ill because as a composer and B, understanding that, like, I would perform.

26:47then I brought them on tour with me but she would always be on the side of the stage again right watching the same way I would watch the next person so it has to be bigger than the collaboration I've touched people that I felt have got next like remember I said they went from a dream to the young Supremes that was pretty amazing most intimidating person that I've ever been in the studio like dog my boots were shaking Whitney Houston Wait, I wanted to ask you about that Because I personally think that one of her best songs Is My Love Is Your Love I love it so much Tell me why I ain't gonna hold you Because it's like Dog, we in the hood in high school You feel what I'm saying to you?

27:32And we a bunch of bad kids And we like, I believe the children You know what I'm saying to you It's like And I'm like, oh You know Mrs. Whitney It was just... Was she cool in the studio? She was amazing. She was, you know, so Clive hit me and I'm like, you know, he's like, yo, Clive Davis, the record for Whitney. And, you know, as a church boy... She's a church girl. That's right. And Whitney was going through something at the time. And then, so you just said, how do you know who to collaborate with? So I'm over here and I'm writing this record. If tomorrow is judgment day. So I was like, I'm going to write like a love note.

28:14You know what I mean? to God. And so Whitney's writing a love note to God. It's almost like she's in the gates. And then so I send a demo and I'm like waiting. You feel what I'm saying to you? And finally you get the call and then you know what I mean? And then she's like I don't like it. Whitney called you and said I don't like this. I don't like it. I love it. So me and Jerry My heart dropped for you. I hate the song. no no i loved it so so so in saying that to me that was like you know what i'm saying like someone

28:48Justin Richmond:like you just idolize um that was probably yeah yeah um hold on but what was it so you can't just bring a whitney in there hold up so what what is it when you're in the studio with whitney and what how do you approach that because like the idea of telling whitney yeah let's do it this way maybe let's try like i just how do you even you know as a lay person how do you even think to do that how do you approach it yeah i think like so whitney we like you know we had it was like brother and sister in the studio and i'm i'm the choir director so i know who's gonna sing the lead the soprano the so we have that so the church just gave you that so we had that church code connection right um where we we rocked out but here's a crazy story y 'all might have heard it or y 'all might not so i'm doing i'm doing this i like when you lean in i'm doing it right i'm doing this joint and in the middle of the record right it sound like to me that whitney dropped a note it sounded flat to me you heard whitney sounding flat yeah what are you what do you know what i would do do you just think that and say i can't be right she can't be flat bro listen what did you do i was like in my ear i heard something was off and then so you know as a producer this is where you have to make what i call the final call right you gotta tell them literally right so you know i stopped everything you know what i mean and what i was telling you remember i said my legs started shaking cold sweat you know i'm saying and she's on the other side and I'm like, Miss Whitney Houston, you're going to have to do that one again.

30:34It came out a little flat. What'd she say? You saw how silent it was in here? Yo, shit got mad silent. Wow. And I was like, I'm fucked. And then she goes, baby, it's not flat. I bent the note. That. Bro, I went back and I listened to the take and her ear was so advanced that the way I was playing the major and minor, the same way like B.B. King would bend a note inside of it. So that literally, like till today, that was one of the things that just blew my mind. Yeah, Whitney's not flat. Whitney was never flat. I heard that she really cuts up in the studio. Like she has fun. She's a jolly old time in the studio, I've heard.

31:28You know, my experience was one of the best experiences because I had Whitney in the studio. I had Bobby. I had the daughter. I had all of them. Bobby Christina. Yeah. And Bobby Brown. Yeah. And then so in the studio, the illest moment for me was when Whitney was in the booth and she was singing. And her daughter was on the other side with me. Wow. And then her mom is singing. Her mom can't hear where she's going. And then she goes, sing, mom. because that ends up in the track. Yeah, and then so I just sampled it. I sampled her daughter. I didn't even, Whitney ain't even hear that till the final version.

32:07Wait, so you heard her daughter say sing, mommy. Were you recording in the control room? So I have the control room, but I still always have mics inside of my main room. But if you're in the control room, Whitney can't hear. But her daughter's cheerleading her mommy. She's like, sing, mommy. And then I go, while her mom's singing, I say, what would you say? and she don't know she's being recorded. So I tap my engineer and she goes, sing mommy. Yeah. And then I saved that on a sample. And then later I went up and I did that. So that was pretty, pretty cool. Your mind. Your mind. I love it.

32:44Justin Richmond:That's incredible. One last break and we'll be back with Wyclef Jean.

32:52Being a small business owner isn't just a career. It's a calling. Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own. That's why we make your business growth our priority. Our team takes the time to understand your mission, where you are now and where you want to go. Our broad range of solutions is designed with you in mind so you can bring your ideas to life. From banking to payment acceptance to credit cards, you can conveniently manage all your business finances all in one place with our digital tools. Looking for tips and advice? Our online resources are always available to give you the solutions you need to help your business thrive.

33:22See how your business can go farther with Chase for Business. Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for Business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase & Company.

33:42You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo. Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

34:10Justin Richmond:Looking back, you make the score, it's a huge hit, you're on the road, you're making the carnival, and for whatever reason, I don't know, the group is sort of not holding. Looking back on it, how would you counsel yourself as Wyclef today to Wyclef back then in terms of how to be a member of the Fugees in that moment? Well, I mean, the thing is, like, way before me, there was people that made the same mistakes as me. You could read all about it. Like it's very clear. Even if I was to go back into to speak to the younger Wyclef, the problem is you can't go back and speak to your younger self. Right.

34:58What you do is within your present self, you're able to give a young one that you see that has that air and on the come up. And you're like, yo, man, listen. Now, these are a list of things that you should not do moving forward. and but at the same time you see within the universe when the vulnerability of artists and the honesty of artists right so these 30 years there still was a healing process right lauren's my sister you know her kids are like i'm uncle wacleth you feel what i'm saying to you it's like to be in such amazing place of love right sometimes um it it takes because when you young right and you have all these superhero powers both of us we got superhero powers you don't understand the powers as you get older you start to understand them more and more and more so i think like from a space of maturity i wouldn't i couldn't go back but what i do is all of the young, I call them superheroes, that are gifted that I work with within the concept, I'm able to give them better advice.

36:08I always think about group dynamics and when a group knows when to try to keep making it work and to let it go and break up. And I always think of the Fuji story in comparison to the saga of Fleetwood Mac. Like the Fugees had drama and then they broke up. Fleetwood Mac had drama and they just stuck together and made an album about it and the drama and the breakups. How do you know in a creative collaborative partnership if it's worth saying we're going to stick through this and keep making art or we got a break? I mean, I would say it's like two different psyches. like Fleetwood Mac is a different psyche than we were.

36:59We grew up within different environments. Yes. And then our dramas were completely different than Fleetwood Mac's drama. So it's not even like where you get to the point I don't know if y 'all been watching 2025 you've seen the Fugees on tour. And if you see us on stage it's like old school Lakers. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't have to look at launch. know the past. Everyone knows the past. So, but the, what we do have and what we all have always been conscious of is in order to move the universe forward. Cause we always was like, we're not going to be a group. We're going to be a movement in order to be a movement.

37:43They gotta be perfect harmony. So the day, like we don't feel perfect harmony, then the superpowers leave. Right. And then you're not able to create that thing because you literally, you know, like, yo, there's not a superpower there. What does that feeling feel like, that knowledge feel like when you know the powers aren't, like, can you tell? How do you spot it? How do you feel it? I'm able to tell now because we've healed. You see what I'm saying? So it's like we've healed, like, me and Elle, we good. Like, everything is dope. So it's almost like Wolverine, like you shed skin. And it's like when you're after the wound and then after the sacrifice.

38:22Right. And it happens. And I don't I don't think people understand. Like we were like, I mean, kid stars, like even before you knew who we were, we already was like off Broadway doing a musical called Club 12. So just to start off like that and for us to be over 30 years and to look like ourselves, still be pretty, bad, funny, sexy and all that, that's not an easy job. I'm struggling right now. I'm like, and I bring it up. So I bring up this question of collaborating and knowing when to break and when to stay in it, because a lot of the folks here at this conference are audio creatives who are making all kinds of shows with people.

39:07And those formulations of these teams might change. And there are podcast breakups and makeups and shakeups. And it's like, I wonder if you have any advice for creatives who are working in partnership right now, you know, how to read the tea leaves, stay in it, or know when to leave it? What is Wycliffe Jean's creative partnership advice? Biggest piece of advice. So my partnership advice to all creatives is like this. It's better you do one thing. Say that again. One thing. You'll be surprised how many people have only done one thing. And that one thing turns into an iPhone. I'll just give you an example.

39:49The one thing turns into Microsoft. right? You know, the one thing turns into the most amazing podcast. What happens is once the synergy and the harmony is gone, you got to move on because if you continue, then what you're thinking

40:09Justin Richmond:about is something that's for profit now opposed to something that you created because in the beginning you was just like, yo, I want to create a movement to move people. So I always say it's that you do something, one thing, and you're amazed by it. And then synergy, don't lie. And if you don't feel that synergy, you got to keep it moving, baby. So trust the vibes. Listen to the vibes. Trust the vibes, man. You know, there's also, you said, Sam gave this wonderful list of people you collaborated with. And you mentioned one person backstage who I didn't realize you had a whole project with, who also gave you some advice back 20 years ago.

40:49King of pop, man.

40:50Justin Richmond:about where we are in today's future. So if you can tell what the King of Pop told you about 20 years ago and how you're moving with that today. Yeah. So RP to the King of Pop. Michael Jackson, by the way. Yeah. If you don't know, leave the room. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say, again, sometimes I'd be saying stuff, and I'd be like, you know what I'm saying? because I don't feel like a lot of people get what I be saying, you know what I'm saying, to you? Because I be on another planet. And then so, see they laugh and they're like, what is he talking about? So I'm in the studio with Michael. As one does.

41:35And Michael is like just real quick, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, he's in the studio and it's like...

41:52Right? And he said, did you get that? No. The orchestra lives in your head.

42:00Justin Richmond:The orchestra lives in your head. And as long as you can take what's in your head, you don't even have to say it. You can think it. And the machine will spit it back to you. Okay, Michael. You know, Clef, I'm working on this other album. It's called Binaural. You ever heard of Binaural? No. He's like, yo, as we move towards the future, people will be able to hear music like it sounds like it's coming from a theater. But it'll be like movie music, but they'll be able to hear it from their headphones. Fast forward today. Where we at today, you have AI, right? And so the thing about it is, you know, backstage, you know, you almost punched me in my face when I told you, like, you know, I'm deep into AI.

42:58But we was going back and forth on that. But here go the game. Okay, so there's AI and then there's IA. IA is me, intelligent alpha. That's what we all are. Like we're the source of everything. So at the end of the day. To my 12 year old niece. Arriving today is a new way that the future will do music. There's a new way that the filmmakers will make film. Right. There will always be bad actors in a room because within everything, like when the computer wave was going on, there was bad actors. When we was going from no more physical records to digital and into streams, we're always going to have bad actors.

43:47I think that our responsibility as the human is to never lose our soul. Right? Because the only thing that the machine will not be able to duplicate is your soul. So inside, when I have like my niece and everything, she does everything with her computer. But when I'm sitting there and she's like, yo, could you grab that guitar and play something? That physicality of the human, you can't replace that.

44:15Justin Richmond:So you are using AI as a tool, but not scared about it replacing the human creative spirit. Well, I'm using it as a tool because how is music created? Y 'all see the final product. But if I bring y 'all into my studio, y 'all going to be like, oh, this look like Star Trek, right? It's called, there's a lot of equipment and the equipment is called hardware. Then the hardware get converted into software. You know, my DJ friends, we used to carry like 10 ,000 crates and then it gets converted into the computer. So at the end of the day, you use AI as a tool. I teach my students, I am the master of AI.

44:54AI is not the master of AI, therefore I am I. so it has to be your slave right the problem is if you become the slave of the robot then it's over for you yeah I know we gotta go but I gotta just ask you one question as a fan of rap and a lover of rap I see all these headlines about rap being dead or dying I hear some of the newer artists today and I'm like not like it used to be Wyclef as a legend of the field do you feel positively or negatively about the current state of rap? I got seven albums coming out starting in April all the way to October. I think that rap is part of hip-hop and hip-hop, the culture, is only getting stronger and stronger all around the world.

45:41And I believe in the future, I'm going to do my part and I'm very excited about some of the future young artists that are coming out. We just got to make sure that they get that space. The algorithm can't keep pushing one form of hip-hop in America, right? We need that multiple, because hip-hop in France is sounding like it sounded in the 90s, right? What we're pushing here is the algorithms are just more towards one thing, and we have to go back to that eclectic vibe. Well, and not just that. It's like I watch, and I have this theory. I think that every rapper of Note in America right now, the men, the boys aren't having fun.

46:21Are y 'all ready? watch this i'm gonna get to 21 i'm the one i know what y 'all think and me too in my game of numbers there could only be a few i am the trinity guess the riddle kids one man on two sticks what's that the crucifix at least that's what they taught me in sunday school forgive my foes five pointed at pinocchio's nose skip the six go to seven that's the number of completion adam ate the apple so they cast him from the garden of eden jealousy got him waving his nine king kills abel he a tin man you know his heart pumps oil two ones ain't enough to make it rain microphone check one two rap lives in my vein i'm from the era dudes scrap with their hands play friday the 13 get cobra clutch or body slam but my nephews they don't use their hands m14s m15s guns and roses pointed at your sweet 16.

47:15I was born on October 17. That's the day they killed my leader, Jean-Jacques Dissalines. And my mama told me there's monsters under my beard. They're 18s. Think Malcolm X, the 19th hour by any means. 20, 20 vision. They say the good die young. I am the master of A-I-A-I is not the master of I. I did this freestyle to show you how I made it past 21. Yes. All right, man. Sam Sanders. Justin Richman Wyclef John Wyclef John oh my god

47:58Justin Richmond:in the episode description you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite Wyclef songs along with some of his new music be sure to check out youtube.com slash broken record podcast to see all of our interviews and be sure to follow us on Instagram at The Broken Record Pod. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rhodes with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Talliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for$4.99 a month.

48:32Justin Richmond:Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats, I'm Justin Richmond.