From pop star to founder: Rochelle Humes on reinvention and resilience

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0:41We look forward to seeing you there. I got in S-Cub Juniors when I was 12. At the time when I entered the world of business and wanted to build my own brand and business for myself, it was really sort of frowned upon. I really have enjoyed the brain exercise of the past six years. of being a sponge around great people. My Little Coco, we launched in 2020 when we went into a global pandemic. Hello and welcome to the Business Leader Podcast. I'm Lucy McPhee. And I'm Josh Dornbrack. And today we are happy to be joined by Rochelle Humes. You may know Rochelle from S Club Juniors, The Saturdays, or from our TV screens hosting This Morning or The Hit List.

1:25Or from her notable business career, such as being the founder and creative director of My Little Coco, one of the UK's best-selling baby and family brands, alternatively from hosting her brilliant podcast, Ladies Who Launch. Yes, her story is one of building resilience, the power of partnerships, and saying no, and much, much more. Please enjoy our conversation with Rochelle Humes. Rochelle, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. So, I wanted to just talk about your backstory to begin with. You grew up in East London. Yes. What was your childhood like?

1:58um what was my childhood like uh it was very busy very I was raised by my mum she was like working a billion jobs like to try and sort of make it all work and yeah I kind of had I really have really lovely fond memories of my childhood there was lots of love lots of kind of yeah I don't feel like I know that my mum's financial position as I'm an adult I know how that looked and like there were times that I've sort of as I got older I knew that we necessarily couldn't do certain things I couldn't go to certain places but I didn't it was so like fulfilled and such a lovely childhood that when I look back as an adult and as a parent I'm like how my mum did it on her own like working as I said multiple jobs and knowing that you know she didn't have any sort of financial freedom to be able to do the extra things I just had the best time and I'm so thankful that she managed to do that with like experience versus like material things you know so yeah I feel very very lucky oh good that's amazing I also want to touch on your music career what was your life like during that period do you look back on it fondly um yes I really do I I sort of started in the music business as it were very young I got in S-Cob Juniors when I was 12 which is very well 11 I think I was and I was just about to turn 12 which is like six months a year younger than my daughter which is weird to me than my eldest um and I loved it we were really really well protected I have to say you do hear these stories of like horror stories of child stars if that's you know for want of a better phrase and we were really supported by our parents and how that looked and we kind of were really scooped up and just had a great time like I remember I then had to have be homeschooled which felt like the dream um and yeah it was a really sort of nice like I look back thinking oh we it could have been not very nice because of the nature of that business and being like quite a long time ago um but it was yeah very very fortunate and then after S Club Juniors I was auditioning for a bit and trying to sort of find my way and then an audition for at the time I thought was a girl band which it obviously then was but I didn't know anything about it.

4:38I didn't have any clue that Frankie, who I was in S-Cub Juniors with, I was going to go on to be in a band with her. Like, you'd think that we sort of engineered it together, but we had no idea that each other were auditioning for the girl band. Yeah. And, yeah, that it sort of, that happened, and then that's how I spent, like, a lot of my early adult years kind of having a real ball with four other girls and living our best life and selling out arenas and selling singles and getting to experience some really fun moments until then I went back full circle because I used to present television prior to the Saturdays.

5:20So then I went back full circle after the group and I decided to sort of give it a rest. So, yeah, I really, I feel like, don't get me wrong, there are lots of with highs come equal lows. but I do feel when I look back as a majority I feel like my experience in that time was really fun. That's great especially starting out so young it is very good because you hear a lot of horror stories. No you do and I think when I hear you can watch these documentaries of American stars and the landscape there is so big so I can understand that it's easier for people to infiltrate a little bit but ours was so protected and we sort of come after those horror stories so maybe everybody had their wits about them a little bit more.

6:06But, yeah, I really did have a great experience and I'm kind of pleased that I did, like, squeezed as much as I did into sort of, like, my teens and early 20s because when I was then 23, I felt pregnant with Alaya. OK. Which is quite, you know, young to have a baby. So I'm so pleased that I, like, did so much. I almost kind of was a little bit wild, you know, falling out of clubs until every time because let me tell you that has to change yes so I was quite pleased that I kind of had that in abundance before absolutely settling down sort of yeah I want to touch because again we are kind of a mosaic of our experiences highs and lows and I want to just touch on a specific part that you've already mentioned when S Club Juniors finishes you know you you can't be S Club Juniors and be in your late 20s you know what I mean it has to finish at some point but that must be quite a shock because you know you you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth yeah you suddenly have this taste of this this life and you're earning good money and all this kind of stuff and suddenly that just kind of disappears and you know that's that's a proper character test I guess when you reflect on those days you know get in touch with the younger you how do you kind of feel towards that time are you you thankful that it happen do you know what it's such a good question actually and i that time is always really poignant to me and i think it's really shaped my work ethic along the way because i didn't know what i was going to do and i didn't know if you like have so many lives and i'd had a go at this and a go at that and like you've reached your quota now you're sort of done and i wasn't you know i'm not as you said i don't have a silver spoon in my mouth i definitely could have played and been smarter but I wasn't smart in terms of finance.

7:55So that sort of space of knowing that I was really... I remember it being a friend's birthday and being able to buy them whatever they wanted and probably better than maybe what their parents did because I had that ability to do so. But it all sort of goes as quickly as it comes and then you don't have that and then you really have to re-evaluate and at the time you don't realise that they're going to be life lessons, it just feels pretty shit. So I think my work ethic has always stayed to a point and I've always got that person, I'm always aware of that person that I just know how quickly it can all go.

8:33So that's always in the back of my mind. Like, I'll always want to be on because I'm scared of the phone not ringing. But I've sort of, like, become a lot better at that in the past couple of years because there was a point where I would just be like, well, I should do that because what if that doesn't happen? And I kind of live in it a little bit more now where I'm like, look, you know, there's you kind of have to have that self-belief in the sense of it's not always a coincidence when things work. It's because I do apply myself and it's because there is something that's working. Because I think I was treating it quite toxic where I was just like, we can never, you know, we can never be stuck.

9:13We can never be. And when you're self-employed, it's just like you don't know when the phone's going to ring. right and everybody has that to a degree you're going to have that tax bill you're going to have the next thing you've got to keep it moving and as my mum would say like make hay while the sun shines and but I almost I've sort of got better at not leading with that mentality at all times because it can cloud you a little bit and that's the thing when you look at our audience you know they're scaling businesses they may want to be in that almost still leftos of that startup startup mindset where they want to say yes to everything yeah actually one of the best things that you can do is really taking a step back and you know almost the power of saying no did you have to like learn that over time yeah and I think that then comes with a bit more financial freedom and then years of working under my belt because then you can take stock a little bit more and and everything's relative right the more you grow the more you know everything moves with you the responsibility, the finances, the outgoings, it all kind of scales with you.

10:15But I do think that it's, yeah, you really do learn to realise, and it was slower for me because I think that old girl lives in me a little bit. But I think that your no's are so much more valuable than your yes's. And being everywhere or being everything and trying to just make it work doesn't always pay off and like mentally you know from every level it can kind of actually essentially hold you back sometimes so I do think yeah the no is way more important than yes however when you need money and you know you're not cash flow rich you do just grab things with both hands so I do I kind of I do get it because it's easy to fall into that trap I have several times yeah were there any early mentors whether that be in music or business in your early life or even later on during your transition period in from music into business that really shaped your mindset do you know what I found that leap really kind of humbling and I don't when I say meant there were lots of people that I sort of looked at and I thought about what it means to like have a mentor the other day and I actually think you can meet somebody at some point that says they can literally say one sentence and you're like it can stick with you forever and I think I've been lucky that I've sort of grabbed up a little bit from different people along the way but at the time when I entered like the world of business and wanted to build my own brand and business for myself it was really sort of frowned upon And it was, yeah, it wasn't necessarily the right move, as in, like, I didn't get advised that that would be the right choice.

12:08It was risk-taking. You know, why not be an ambassador at the face of someone else's brand and we'll get you a good royalty? Yeah. Because it's, you know, it's a lot less risk and some believe the same reward. But for me, I was really passionate. I wanted to build something for myself when I built my little cocoa. But I did find that transition a real difficult one and quite a lonely one, which is why essentially I ended up building Ladies Who Launched My Podcast because I was desperate to pick brains of other founders that have, you know, not necessarily of a similar vein, but kind of entered that world and didn't necessarily know what was waiting for them at the other end.

12:53Because whenever I would meet women or anybody out that had done something similar, I'd be like desperate to be sat next to them at the dinner party so I could just ask away you know so that's kind of when where Ladies Who Launched was born. So did you find I guess it was a bit of a double-edged sword when you transitioned into business being someone that already had such an established public presence um did you find there was a lot of misconceptions about you? Yeah I think yeah in the way that I suppose people would assume that everything was only ever from an agent when you when you have a public profile to a degree and I'm sure there is lots of talent out there that do operate in that way and that works for them but for me I've always been really at the front of scent and centre of anything I've done so when I was entering those rooms without an agent or if if my manager that I trust is with me they would just talk to them and I'm like no we're hello that's me that's what I was doing and so I definitely found that like shift quite very humbling yeah and but also I'm kind of used to that I'm always I've always been like you're in a girl band or you're on tv so people assume that you've got no idea what's happening in the room or you know somebody does it for you or it must be all written in the press release and so I do think I kind of operate at a level that I expect people to think that anyway so and I use that as my superpower I'm like the more I do interviews like this I expose myself but actually I'm like great don't think I was listening because while you thought that I was there all naive and worrying about lip gloss yeah I was taking notes and I was actioning stuff and I think yeah I kind of like to I yeah I see that as a bit of a superpower yeah but I definitely yeah I definitely I mean there's loads that I think that people probably took the wrong way and I think it's leading in in that vein of I suppose people not really thinking that I ultimately knew what I was talking about and at the start there was a lot that I didn't to be honest but I've learnt on the job and yeah it's definitely been when I think about the start and I think people also assume that if they're that I sold product based on my like you say having like a public profile yeah which a thousand percent gets people through the door no like there's no argument there I don't think anyone with a public profile could say otherwise I mean it doesn't always convert you might back a brand and it actually didn't resonate yeah but I think if you're passionate about something you have a following whether that's now seems to be led by social media or however that looks you'll get people to support you because you'll have the people that always do exactly but does that mean when it runs out they're going to buy it again yeah no it doesn't and to have that repeat purchase like i would buy milk if beyonce told me to guess what i love beyonce yes but if the milk tastes like shit am i buying it again no no i might fill it up with another milk because I still like her but what I'm saying is it gets you so far yes and it does really and it becomes exposing and sometimes the launch isn't the problem it's the sustaining yeah um so I think that's where I think people in that first sort of maybe six months a year thought well obviously obviously they're gonna buy it because she's got people that are going to but I think it's that you know consistently having people run back to the store or go straight online because they've run out that's where it becomes different yeah so i guess for a little bit of context if you could just tell us a little bit about my little coco what kind of led you to launch it and then also maybe just an idea of kind of the the size of the company how many people are working there so my little coco we launched in 2020 on february it was february the 17th even better time wow just to give you a bit of context um but of course I'd been building up to this for like two years prior and we were unsure of if we were going to partner oh I should also say that it is a baby children's family lifestyle brand and we specialize in toiletries and um body and hair care and so I'd been built I started working on it when Valley when I was pregnant with Valley and then when value was born it then ramped up and I had a bit of downtime and I couldn't really understand how you couldn't use the same product on my four-year-old to my newborn I'm like they're both precious to me that's kind of I didn't understand that they we couldn't simplify the routine for the whole family yeah and also bringing diverse skin and hair products to the high street of a premium feel that was kind of really I wanted the aisle to look different and not just have to go to like the you're in the supermarket when you have the world foods oh it was almost like there's like a little niche diverse section and I'm like absolutely not baby brands should be offering because you know a product that would cater to everybody because guess what if you get the diverse products right they're going to work for everybody and it kind of wasn't rocket science um and I was shopping really premium with my first so I kind of wanted to bring that feel to the high street um so that became my mission and what I'd really set myself of building what I felt was the best possible brand and we've changed over time and we've you know since then we started with seven SKUs and now we're gosh we cover so many different categories now that we're like sat at like 90 something which is bizarre when I think about it um but Yes, we launched the brand on 17th February, which we all know then what followed in 2020 after that.

19:03And we, at the time, were debating whether or not to be a straight e-com site. But the goal for me was having it on the high street. That's the whole point. You know, you want to try, you want to feel, you want to. So it was a retail business. And we'd pitched it to lots of different retailers.

19:25And no one really, they got it, but they wanted me to lose the like hair care products, which were like for curls. And they kind of were like, we want this, but we'd love the body wash, the body moisturiser and the shampoo. And I'm like, the range is the range. And the reason it's born was actually because of the diverse products. So it wasn't, it just, it wasn't gelling. And I think that the retailers might have liked the idea of like, it being like Baby by Rochelle Humes, which isn't what it was. I wanted it to be a standalone brand that you don't necessarily have to know it's mine. So we then had the last meeting we had, I was like trying to get this meeting with Boots.

20:05And I did. And I'll never forget, I went in with the team that worked for me at the time. Some of them still do work with me now. And it was like a table full of women. And they just understood it instantly. I spoke them through it, I showed, you know, I had product in front of me and we hadn't filled any product then so we're literally taking them out of sample pots and I was showing them like what it's going to look like and I had like little bits of components and it was all very like this is what we're about, this is what I want to do and they literally sat there and were like, love it, let's do it Brilliant And I was like, sorry, but bear in mind I've met a lot of people at this point who wanted to take things away Where's the box?

20:47And I was waiting for the like, but we don't love this product. And they just wanted the range in its entirety, like all seven. I'm like, and I didn't want to like sort of fumble the bag and be like, you want all seven? So I was trying to just really see what they meant by that. And me and the team were sort of looking at each other. And then they sort of have been, they were my dream retailer, by the way. So they were the ones that I was trying to get the meeting with. So I'm like, where do you go for products of that nature? You go to Boots. And for me, they lead the market. And so it was just such a start of such a brilliant journey.

21:24And then it happens. And what really helped me from a financial perspective and from a kind of back-end perspective is by going that route at the time, which I've sort of... People have different routes to market, right? And would I do the same route again? I would. Would I have changed certain things? Maybe. be but I really as I said wanted it to be in a customer's hands and I wanted to have that like footfall audience where you know a lot of our shoppers are sometimes grandparents because they go in and they're not trying to grab it from a supermarket because they've got the baby in the basket they're like having a look and taking it all in and that's the kind of considered customer that I really wanted.

22:12But from a financial perspective, what helps is that they then forecast that order. So I didn't press go on something, me and the team, without knowing that that stock was catered for. So I think that really did... I was taking less of a risk because regardless if it performed well, that stock was done. So that gave me a bit more confidence. It gave me a lot more confidence in the brand too, knowing that the retailer that I really wanted, who dominates that market, believed in it. And we're going to put it in so many stores. But it was still a test. They were really getting behind it. They had exclusivity.

22:51But it's been a partnership since that I really protect. And we are other retailers, and we have great relationships with them, and they stock different fragrances. But I've sort of protected the amount that Boots take because it's a partnership that is really invaluable to us. so yeah and when I say about it's kind of an opposite way normally people would I suppose depending on what the product is launch D2C first and then open up into retail which in some ways I'm like yes we would have probably owned our customer more but our product can't just be online like I don't know a mum that only shops for a baby lotion online because it's something that I want to try so it kind of I was really conflicted in a long time what the right route was but that's the route we took which actually when we went into a global pandemic god a few weeks later meant that a I took less risk but b do you remember that boots were like one of the only shops that stayed open and the supermarket because they're a pharmacy yeah so it was like somebody somewhere was looking down on us because remember when you could only walk to a boots and then we and like it sold so well but they really had time to take in a new brand whereas I don't think before you'd get that sort of screen time with a customer in that way because we're all distracted aren't we or we're popping in whilst we're getting something else so it really meant that it But, yeah, it felt like a real blessing, actually.

24:31And then it ended up performing well and then we'd ordered again. But what was great is that they forecast that for us. So we literally ordered basically what they told us to. And we were like, OK, well, this feels safe. But then they obviously needed... And then that's when I was like, oh, that's the kind of, like, pop star media me that was like, oh, it's not great when you sell out. like that was where the naivety come in and then that was i just saw everyone like this is a logistical nightmare and i was kind of expecting that we were let off confetti and everyone was like well no because we can't and this is obviously learnings and now i'm so far in that i know that's the case and we're stock is something that is a constant you know the team will always be managing and obviously they don't want an empty shelf and i didn't understand that i just thought well that's great if someone goes to my little cocoa shelf and it's empty everyone's going to want it more which works to a point yeah but obviously you lose shelf space if you can't fill it exactly so that's all of those i didn't know any of that at the time i was just like fabulous we're sold out great we'll get it when we can guys let you know but yeah so that's when i really was like oh okay this i know nothing about the world i'm in i'm gonna sit and i'm gonna be a sponge around everybody because creative launching a brand detail product that's me i'm obsessed with that you know creative director is and founder obviously but that's essentially essentially my role and i really have enjoyed the past the brain exercise of the past six years of being a sponge around great people and really sort of understanding the world properly that i'm in yeah that's fantastic i've never had to before no it's always been someone else's thing and i get an affiliate link and I sell out and I'm like fab yeah we're obviously check thank you yeah but it's so different when it's like that's when you've got to pull your sleeves up and think this is where we really have to understand it yeah and I guess speaking on that as well is how involved are you in the day-to-day operations of the business are you kind of in the nitty-gritty or kind of the strategic overseer I'm in more nitty-gritty than I'd like to be right um that's a real change that next year that I'll sort of relinquish myself from.

26:44As in, like, it's not... I've learnt on the job. Ultimately, everything is my decision. And that's what I kind of... I'm ready to shift a bit. I mean, obviously I'll always be across stuff. But even though the sign-off's mine, I still take everybody else's advice because we're a team and that's what everybody's strengths are and not mine. So I just want to solely be creative director. and lean into that because that's my thing. Like, I don't want to be worried that, like, our parcel's going to be late to the Middle East next week because it is and I just don't want to be across it. But obviously I know it's happening and I know that they'll tell me, but I don't want to be the one that's checking that this person spoke to that person.

27:31Because I just don't. It's not my skill set. It really isn't. And some people, that light, and I see it in my team, And that lights them up and that is problem solver mode. But it's just not where my time is best spent. And I've got, like I said, they are kind of in the doing of that. But overseeing that isn't my strength at all. I love that self-awareness piece. That's quite important. You find a lot of leaders don't want to relinquish certain things, even though they're not good at it. It's a big ego thing. And I do think that I was there because I just felt like I had to protect this thing that I remember got advised not to do by management at the time that I come from that vein where you think that, like, everybody might be keeping something from you because you hear these stories about she did this thing and they took this from her.

28:25And I kind of had all that for a bit. And it's a real, like, a trust thing and even, like, giving trust to... You know, I think that just sort of happens in our world a little bit. so when it collides into a world that you have to be trusting of everybody yeah and of course i love and adore everyone that i work with but it's it really i had to sort of leave my ego at the door because there's no time there's absolutely no time for ego like you know you aren't head of finance for a reason like um if there's a budget i'm gonna blow it like my husband will tell you so like this isn't my do you know and it's being realistic and knowing where i'm best placed yes But I do think in the past year or two, I've really sort of leant into that.

29:10Like, I don't think that I'm like this, you know, hot shot CEO because I'm not. And at one point, and we're sort of really sort of, you know, I'm leaning on other people now and we're about to hire and again. And we're in that place in the business at the minute. But I don't. At one point, I was that. And I thought that was a bit of a badge of honor, but for me, it isn't. And for me, I just want the best for my company. and it's always going to be mine. I'm always going to be the founder. And that's enough, you know, and just play to your strengths. What do you think has been that biggest catalyst to get you to that point, to get to that realisation of, like, I can't be everything to everyone.

29:51I need to help someone else lean into their strength. I think experience and knowing that, like, I feel like I've taken it as far as I can take it with my skill set. if like I'm really honest and if I want this business that I'm so passionate about to have legs and legs again and keep doing what it can do what I know it can do I'm not the best person to be at the top of the tree do it like not I'm you know I'm you know my background would say so and yes I've really you know I'm very proud of what we've achieved but there's so much more for us to achieve so much more that I'm excited about but I know I'm great with product and innovation and creativity and marketing campaigns and that like sets my soul on fire and I know how to achieve that and execute that but other territories and everything you know that isn't it gets to a point where you yeah I can ask as many questions as I want as I want yeah it's not my strength but ego plays into it so much like you said because there's loads of people who will frankly even if they don't know it consciously will rather run their business into the ground than you know delegate and give it to someone else absolutely that and you just have to be honest with yourself about how much do i want this business to fly or how much do i want people to think it's me that did it yeah and i think you just have to really like be comfortable with having those conversations with yourself because i've definitely been there and i'm like look it isn't that yeah and if if somebody else is helping you steer this ship in the best way possible and the brand that you have founded and it's now skyrocketing because you're not going i can do this or that what's better yeah you know yeah i want to just touch on the fact that you have 90 skews which is a crazy amount for it for a business that's you know only been going for kind of five six years we're streamlining that now though we're pulling back just about how much how much self-reflection do you have because i mean that is that is a lot and you always need to be consistently kind of reviewing things but you've already mentioned that you're streamlining What kind of makes you...

31:59Well, this year has really been like, we haven't had any new MPD this year. We've had no MPD, which we've never had since we launched. But it was really important. I'm saying that as of at the end of the month, we have something new. But up until the end of October, we didn't enter anything new into the rebuilds. And we have rebranded. We have sold through stock with, I say old artwork. you guys might not even notice the update but for us it's been like a big thing Is this the onion by any chance? How funny is that? That's when you give a design to a child who tells you your coconut looks like an onion and then you all in the meeting go it looks like an onion It absolutely does

32:48So we've like kind of we've rebranded all of our do you know what's amazing? I went into a boot store the other day and it's all new artwork and I'm like, oh my God. And I remember the start of the call where we did, we'd just had a delivery of like 800 ,000 units into our main warehouse. And I was like, okay, we've got to get through them. And then I, because I'm so like, right, I've decided it's new. Yeah. Let's go. I'm like, we've got to sell through those. Let's go. So we haven't had any new MPD, but for a really good reason, I wanted to take stock, see what's performing. We got given such great opportunity in store that we were just running with it.

33:23and there wasn't necessarily a real strategy in place exactly that exactly that and we do our brand really thrives off of mpd actually it really does like give the whole and i'm sure lots of businesses are the same so for us i was like right i just want a year of sustaining everything really stripping it back because we'd enter different categories like with baby axe which is in terms of like store would be weaning accessories um the same buyer does we have a like a pre and postnatal range called baby mama which performs really well we were first to uk market with sheet masks for the bump um which are like what up there of one of our best sellers but we'd kind of sort of looked at so many we were doing kids sunglasses we were doing like every accessory to have meal time with and we'd sort of become this real lifestyle brand which was great and I loved it but I kind of was like right can we just take stock and look at everything what do we do best what strengths you know should we play to and almost have those really honest conversations of like should we pull back I never want to get to a point where like we're being sort of told by the retailer that something's going to be delisted like I want us to really, which will happen at some point, but I want us to be really considered and keep using our customers and our, I know everybody uses the word community now, but really sort of tap into that and know where we should be at next.

35:06And we're literally about to launch two products that are so simple, but they're fragrance-free. And we're literally about to launch a fragrance-free moisturiser and a fragrance-free, we call it our everything wash, which does what it said in the tin. And that really came from our customers. And that was probably the first thing that I hadn't already preempted because I love fragrance. I love, and, you know, lots of people, I kind of love that smell and I really associate, like, one bath wash to one child. Like, I love that. But not everybody does, not everyone can take it. And I really, that was driven by our community that are like, would you ever do fragrance free we do have fragrance free products we have a bottom balm we have everything balm which is like a hero product for literally everything but not the washes and not the lotions um so that's really exciting so that's going to come and then next year we've got a massive massive meeting tomorrow for marketing but next year is big for us we're taking on other accounts so that's like next year will be such a big one for us so i wanted to keep this one really considered and I'm so pleased but I did have to really listen to my team on that too and sort of say look let's not at the start of the year let's just sit on this year so this was our year of like making what we've got work harder and really elevating each thing and next year can be no MPD yeah brilliant that's really exciting you of course have your own podcast called ladies who launch you sit down with female ceo founders entrepreneurs what made you want to start that was there a gap in the market you wanted to fill really really self-indulgently as i said at the start like i just really when your founder is really lonely like it's quite isolating as in like my husband hears everything but like how much does he actually care about you know the fact that i'm gonna have to air freight some stuff as well as ship it like Like, you know, it's quite a niche thing to be bothered about.

37:14And I do get that. And he's in with me. But I know that he's like, right, okay, so what did you do? And what do you think? Where I kind of want to bounce off someone that gets it. And not everyone in my friendship group is a founder. Like, that's not really a thing where everyone does the same or has the same line of work. So really, for me, I would always gravitate to people that I met. I'm like, oh, my God, I love her. She's done this for years. like I'd love to just sit down with her and pick her brains so I thought let's make a podcast let's make it successful so more people want to come on and now I get to pick the brains of these incredible women so it was really self-indulgent but what that has then led to it's really led to again a community that's really grown organically of women that like want to ask other women questions and that are like you know are launching you know they've got a startup or that or you know they're a few years down the line and they need help trying to find a PR person or and they like talk to each other and it could honestly I'm so for something that started off as me thinking that I was just gonna have a chat as really and also I said we launched on New Year's Day with Emma Greed who's one of my favorite favorite founders and CEO she's so impressive and so generous with her knowledge and her time and she really really is what you see is what you get um and she we we launched that first episode on new year's day because i just was like i want to start it in the new year and we're going to go every wednesday so it's like a treat like a hump day treat and then i was like what's the first wednesday of the new year and it was first of jan's like oh it feels great like it's good it just sort of aligned so we and what i did is i At that point, I'd finished before Christmas and I'd taped like 10 episodes, 10 or 12 episodes, and I'd planned to do eight, have a break, and then like in a few months put out the next date and just go from there.

39:14So it was all in the can, really, and I was like, we'll just promote it and let people, make people arrive at the conversation. And then Apple called us on like episode two or three and we're like, this is going really well. Don't be off. And I was like, sorry, what? What? And they were like, you're getting that. People are looking forward to being tuned in again week on week. The way to build this is you don't take a week off. So I'm like, okay. So we've got almost two, we were calling them series. I mean, we forgot, we just don't even say that anymore. Because we've been on every single Wednesday since.

39:55And it really has been part of people's routine. and you know yourselves, like when you build up that momentum, that's, I guess, essentially what people are looking for. But yeah, I've created myself a whole other job alongside of everything else, which at the time I didn't know, guys. I should have come on this before. I know, I was just thinking that. I mean, the biggest thing with any kind of content creation is consistency. Right, well, we've learnt. Yeah, and as soon as you take a break, you find you come back and no one's there anymore. Yeah, well, I'm a TV girl. we can bank a series go again at Christmas.

40:29I'm like, what's all this? So yeah, I've really, I've got a newfound respect to anybody that's got a podcast because it is, yeah, like you say, in all content creation, right, it is consistency is key. Yeah. And yeah, but I've enjoyed it and it's not a hard thing for me to be consistent on. We like batch a lot of the recordings now and, you know, I was in taping before I come to see you guys today, but I just love it. And I feel like I've also built an incredible network of women that I've made friendships with or like meet for lunch. And Mona Katan, who is part of Huda Beauty and has got her own Keali fragrance.

41:07She's absolutely incredible. Now we're like meeting, and she's helping me with guests. You know, it's so incredible that we just met on the podcast and now we like have like such an open dialogue. So I think it's been really, really nice. So it's a self-indulgent one, but one that seems to have connected with lots of women. Oh, absolutely. And I can imagine there's some takeaways from each episode that you can put into your own business or change your mindset. And what's great is I've met, we're on episode like 47 or something now. I know. And I feel like I've got enough people that we've stayed in contact with that if there's a problem, genuinely, I'm like, you haven't got five minutes today for me.

41:50And someone's been there before. And I think to put that on like a scale for like a listener is actually that we don't ask enough. Like we get so embarrassed of failing loudly or that embarrassment of like putting yourself out there. If you think somebody has got the answer to something that you want to ask, they will be delighted to be able to share that info. Like it's so crazy when people ask me a question, I'm like, oh, my God, like I love it. You know, the worst that's going to happen is someone that says no. or that they don't know how to help you but they can pass you somebody that can and I think we just really have I don't know if it's social media that's done it to us but that sort of phase of we just don't ask enough questions or send enough messages or ask to pick someone's brain because it's always quite nice to take a break from your own thing and go oh yeah it's quite a bit of escapism for the person on the other end so ask more questions we all need to ask more questions I think sometimes people don't want to seem like they don't have the answer.

42:52Yeah, but you don't. I know. Don't worry about seeming like it. It's true. It all comes from ego. That's the thing, unfortunately. I used to do it. I used to think, what are they talking about when they talk about a 3PL? Or like, everyone talks. I was saying the other day, and you knew about JLS before this. Now I know all of these acronyms. But it's funny. And I used to sit in meetings, I'd go, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, and just not know the basics because it just wasn't my world. But like, just ask. And I used to look back and I think, you're so silly. No one would have cared if you'd have just said, or after the meeting, if you didn't want to do it in front of her.

43:28Girl, what does that mean? Because I'm, you know. So I always say to people, ask questions, because I didn't ask enough early on and I wish I did. I mean, you wear so many hats. We've already kind of touched on a lot of them. Taking a couple off, though. Taking a couple off. But I mean, you know, you have to juggle a lot of things, let alone, you know, being a mother and things like that. The family takes a lot of time. Exactly. um what is kind of one or two productivity hacks that you've kind of come across and you swear by i don't know if it's a hack but for myself for my brain i like in the week everything's really structured so i zone everything and for example a tuesday come rain or shine is my little cocoa focused like I'm on my phone and I'm in and around a week 24 7 24 hours a day but my little Coco on a Tuesday I'm in that office I'm in the warehouse and I don't move so I mean I can't go for a wee without someone going what's I've just got you but I know what headspace I'm in so I really and on a Monday we have a general catch-up day that isn't just my little Coco it's a bit of everything and then so tuesday's my little cocoa wednesday is a day that's like if and when so like if i for example if today couldn't have worked today i would have put it on a wednesday or i'd put a photo shoot on a wednesday or something that kind of it can be sort of a bit loose thursday i batch record podcast and friday we all are online but we're around and we work from home and that's kind of how my week's structured it gives me like a bit of consistency or a bit of routine in a world that you can't have any routine so I kind of but for me I can on different days put my different hats on if that makes sense so and then I know like on a Friday LA I might have a hockey match so I work from home so I'll be there but I'll be the mum that's sort of got the laptop out and you're doing amazing sweetie over it all but it just gives me a bit of brain space and I think I just used to try and do everything on every day but that just didn't when there are so many parts to what you do nothing then gets done properly so I really just try and and I won't even pick up an email on a Tuesday of anything that isn't my little cocoa so like I screen my emails and I'll like reply to all of those ones and so i think it's just really helped the way that i operate and yeah the way that i go into the week so it's not necessarily a hack but just like dividing your time but being clear about it don't even cross over into the other stuff on those days because it's consistent for you but also the people who need to get in touch with you they know yes yeah exactly that yeah but like i said i'm always online but just to be in with the team on though like they know So, like, I'll get in on a Tuesday and it is, like, meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting.

46:29But it's good and I leave and I'm, like, frazzled. But it's good that I then know and then all week I think of stuff that, obviously, if it needs to be happening there and then, but I can, it gives, like, everybody a little bit of accountability that we check week on week, like, what's progressed, what hasn't. So I think, yeah, just zoning your time a little more and not doing anything else other than what your brain's supposed to be on on that day or in that hour, for instance. Rochelle, thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. The Business Leader Summit 2026 is set to be bigger, bolder, and more ambitious than ever.

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