How to Live Without Regret: Life, Money, and Choices

0:00I think one of the reasons I'm pretty dang happy, I think you are too, is that we do get to live more or less intentionally in how we want to live. are there way more days than I would like where I feel like I have to just get something done? Yes.

0:18Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Business Lunch with your hosts, me, Roland Frazier, and my wonderful partner, Ryan Dice. Ryan, how are you this wonderful day? I'm good. I love the way you said lunch that time. It was kind of, I don't know, it was erotic. Yeah. I don't really know. It made me feel something. Last time we talked about founder mode and manager mode. Now we're going into sexy mode. So anyway. We're just giving the people what they want. Yeah. I was doing a little bit of reading and watching and listening and came across something that I thought would be interesting to chat about.

1:00And I thought it'd be interesting for everybody to kind of participate in, let us know what you think. But in the wealth management and financial planning world, we're kind of looking to acquire some companies there. And so trying to find, you know, do the industry research and all. And I came across this movement called Life Planning, which doesn't sound terribly novel or amazing or anything. But it's basically this guy, George Kinder, started it. And he asks his clients three questions. So the movement is to really bring more perspective to what matters in your life as you're financially planning.

1:46And I'll say that a friend of mine, of ours, J-Cron, who was one of the guys that did amazing things with Kajabi sent me this article as well. And Ryan, if you could do something to entertain people while I look for this real quick, because I want to, I want to put these two things together. So you want me to do a little song and dance routine while you, while you look for that? Okay. I can do that. I think it's just to set some context on this. So you're going to ask me the three questions. I'm going to answer them, but I want everybody to know, I haven't reviewed this ahead of time. You don't know what the questions are even.

2:28I don't know what the questions are. I haven't had a chance to think about it. And so you're going to hear me basically thinking out loud about intensely personal financial matters. What could go wrong? I like it. Nothing could go wrong. And just remember, stay vulnerable. This is the second part of this. So J. Kron sent me this article that I guess had some traction called The Dangers of Low Agency. Have you seen that? Are you familiar with that at all? Okay. So basically it is, let me give it to you. So it's the story of John. I'm going to read it. It's not terribly long, but it's good for setting context.

3:08So, hi, my name's John. I've been lurking for a while, but I finally made an account to post this. I need to get my life off my chest. About me, I'm a 46-year-old banker, and I've been living my whole life the opposite of how I wanted. All my dreams, my passion gone, in a steady nine to seven job, six days a week for 26 years. I repeatedly chose the safe path for everything, which eventually changed who I was. Today, I found out my wife has been cheating on me for the last 10 years. My son feels nothing for me. I realized I missed my father's funeral for nothing. I didn't complete my novel, traveling the world, helping the homeless, all the things that I thought I knew to be a certainty about myself when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

3:47And my younger self, If my younger self had met me today, I would have punched myself in the face. I'll get to how these dreams were crushed soon. And then he talks about how in his 20s, he had 70 pages of his novel written. He had traveled and backpacked through the Philippines and New Zealand. And now, 26 years later, he has still not done anything other than that and basically traded everything for working. And let me see if I can find the end. It says, if you're reading this and you have a whole life ahead of you, please don't procrastinate. Don't leave your dreams for later. Relish in your energy, your passion.

4:28Don't stay on the internet with all your spare time unless your passion needs it. Please do something with your life while you're young. Do not settle down at 20. Do not forget your friends, your family, yourself. Do not waste your life, your ambition like I did mine. Do not be like me. Now, what I love about this is this guy's 46 and has given up again. Hey, Ryan Dice here, co-host of Business Lunch. And before we get to the show, I have an exciting invitation for you. My business partner and Business Lunch co-host, Roland Frazier, and I are hosting a live in-person event. And if you're a bootstrap business owner who wants to build a 10 million and even$100 million business in the next three years, you need to be there.

5:11This event is called Get Scalable Live. and over the last four years, it has transformed from a small gathering of entrepreneurs into the largest bootstrapped entrepreneurship conference in North America. Now, I know what you might be thinking. You're probably thinking, Ryan, really another business event? Is that really what we need? But trust me, this isn't just any other event. You see, unlike most conferences at Get Scalable Live, you'll have dedicated time to take action and actually work on your business instead of just in your business. Over three days, you'll work shoulder to shoulder with like-minded entrepreneurs to implement what you're learning and get valuable feedback that you're just not going to be able to get during the normal day today.

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6:35So just head over to GetScalableLive.com and use promo code LUNCH at checkout. Again, that's GetScalableLive.com, promo code LUNCH. It is truly amazing what can happen when you step out of the day-to-day and spend just a little bit of time surrounded by other powerful business owners. And since this opportunity only comes around once a year, you don't want to miss it. Again, the link is GetScaleableLive.com and don't forget to use promo code LUNCH at checkout to save up to 67 % off the full ticket price. That's all I got. I'll see you in Austin. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

7:17Like, so he's, it's going to be 20 years from now, you know, he's going to 24 more years. Yeah, it's like, so he's going to be 70 And he's going to still, I guess he's moved from, um, I'm young and motivated and, uh, hungry for life to I've got to work and work to live as opposed to, um, excuse me, live to work instead of working to live, um, not paying attention to his family, et cetera, which is not uncommon for people that get immersed in their jobs. And then that can create all kinds of personal challenges. Um, but I thought the fact that he's writing about sacrificing agency and how his life is over at 46 and, and telling you not to do that, but not at all saying what he's done now to change that he's kind of surrendering to this, you know, this is where life is over.

8:15I messed up. I won't ever get that back. I'll live with regret for forever, but probably not long because he's 46. And most people, of course, don't live past 46. So I thought it was interesting. And it goes with the life planning thing because the life planning questions, the very first one is, and you can answer it or not answer it because, you know, depending on how you feel. But the very first one is if you were set for life financially today, and I'm paraphrasing, but if you were set for life financially today, not your Elon Musk and Amazon money, but you know, you've got everything you need to live comfortably for the rest of your life without worry.

8:58What would you do? Would you do what you're doing now or would you do something different? I think what I would do would be what I'm doing now at a slightly reduced intensity, maybe. And not because I don't enjoy what I do, but I feel like right now there's still a lot of pressure to continue to grow and scale. Like what, like the things that we have and what we're doing, because we, you know, we exited a bunch of businesses and we kind of started over with the model that we're operating now in 2020. And so we're still fairly early. I mean, it's kind of like a startup, even though it's a lot of acquisitions.

9:37And so I do feel this kind of like startup pressure and that, you know, going there. But I think one of the reasons I'm pretty dang happy, I think you are too, is that we do get to live more or less intentionally in how we want to live. are there way more days than I would like where I feel like I have to just get something done? Yes. But it never comes at the expense of the things that I've absolutely prioritized over work and money. And that's something that I can say with confidence at this point. The other day, man, I was over it and we're prepping for this event. We've got our annual event next week.

10:13And I've got a bunch of presentations that I need to put together. And I'm behind. And I got home and my youngest, Timmy, is like, hey, can we just go in the backyard and throw the football? And there would have been a time when I would have said, buddy, I'm just so busy. Can we do it tomorrow night? And I'm proud of the fact that I was like, yep, let's do it. And you know what? Maybe those presentations don't get done as well as they could. No regrets there. What I know is it's probably going to be fine. because there were plenty of days when I did make certain sacrifices that I wish that I wish I hadn't made.

10:49You know, and I've been open about about those as well. Talked about those. You know, thank God had a had a wife and a partner who called me on it, you know, and didn't necessarily like opt out of our marriage. You know, instead she called me on it was like, hey, you keep doing what you're doing, but you can't pretend like you're doing it for us anymore. um but now i mean i i i believe that i would keep doing the same i maybe i'd play more golf during the week like at least once a week i'd like to get out and play golf like there's plenty of times where my week gets filled you know with with meetings and and with calls and you know consults and things like that um and maybe if that that would be the addition that if that is something that you think would give you great pleasure, what stops you from blocking that as an appointment to yourself to do now?

11:40Is that one of the questions or is that just a follow-up? Yes. No, it isn't. It's my question to you. I am prioritizing work today over golf and recreation. I'm not prioritizing work over family. So to me right now, today, it's more important that I get the things done that I want to get done and feel like I need to get done from a work perspective. Um, because as much as I love playing golf, I mean, I'm, I still play it a lot on the weekends. It's fine. And if I don't play it during the week, it's fine. If it's absolutely, you're just doing it on the weekends. Yeah. And it's a little more crowded and, you know, but I mean, cry me a river, it's a private club.

12:24It's not like I need a tea time. Like that's what I'm saying. It's fine. because it's fine. Like what I have is great. Um, sometimes, sometimes there are two people on the nine holes that I'm playing ahead of me with no one else on the course. And that's not cool. Right. Um, I think, I think the issue is that there are times when I haven't, when I haven't appropriately ordered it. Yeah. You know, where I haven't said I haven't made the time and put the time on the calendar, even though I said that things were more important, I was unwilling to put that time on the calendar, which I think by definition means it's not as important as you say it is.

13:00Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I think for us where we are, it's less of an important question because we're much more in that camp already. But I think it's a really good question. We're not post-economic to the extent where you're not post-economic, You know, where you're in this point where you just like you have way more money. Your money is making more money than you could possibly even spend. I mean, there's people who are in that and they have like they have the burden now is figuring out how to appropriately give it away because it's just showing up faster. Not not there yet, but definitely am not in the I'm worrying about, you know, today, tomorrow, next week, next year kind of thing.

13:42And so it is it is different. Yeah, I think for me, it's very similar. I don't know, though, if I had Elon Musk money, I don't know that I would do much different. Like you, I would probably, there are things that I would probably, I don't know, maybe I would mature. What I think has happened to me is my mentality has not caught up with where I am financially. So in my mind, if a thing comes along and granted, it's a higher threshold now, but if a thing comes along that's, you know, 50 or a hundred thousand dollars or so, I don't want to not do it. Yeah, I won't say that it would change my life if I didn't do it, you know, because it wouldn't.

14:38It would mean I didn't have that 50 or 100, but I'd probably find it someplace else. And also it wouldn't make a difference based on other things that I have. So, you know, my wife gives me that all the time, you know, when I'm like, ah, got him really busy. And all I want is, you know, yeah, that sucks that you're so busy. But she says, well, you don't have to do it. None of it's going to change our life. I'm like, that's not helpful. But I think it's true. yeah what you said is dead on it is um that's a really good point there are things that i currently say yes to that i probably wouldn't say yes to and i think it's because there's still that little poor boy um who is definitely worried about money is still floating around back in there you know somewhere um and probably the same reason if you're walking in the woods and you hear a russell you get a little bit scared even though it's probably not a saber-toothed tiger um that's You know, that's I think that that's where we still are.

15:34And you and I have known a lot of very wealthy celebrity types where we've been like, why? Why did they fly across the country for this gig? Like we'll be speaking at the same conference, got paid a similar amount. It was like in our hometown. They had to change all their plans to get there to basically pick up some money that they definitely don't need. And I do think that some people have a harder time kicking that than others. We've definitely gotten better, but you're right. That's a good point. There's stuff I say yes to that I probably would pass on. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a good thing to look at.

16:12So I believe that is where we both kind of sit. The second question is you went into the doctor for your regular checkup and everything and get your blood work done, et cetera. And then the doctor calls you and says, hey, listen, some stuff came back and you've got a disease that is going to give you somewhere. We can't say how long, but you've really only got between five and 10 years to live. How would you change what you do with that information?

16:54Hmm. What I would, so I would definitely ratchet my work schedule down and I would probably be very deliberate about working approximately 20 hours a week because I've found that in 20 focused hours a week, I can produce enough. and that 20 focused hours a week, the question I would ask is, am I building an asset that's going to be here long after I'm gone? And I think it's a question I should be asking anyway, but it's not a question I ask often enough. And I think at that point, I would make sure that I was absolutely positively in the asset building mode to make sure that anything that I was working on was something that was going to work for my family and for the people that I'm leaving behind after I'm gone.

17:42So that would be 20 hours a week. The rest of the time would be spent probably, you know, playing, you know, golf with my friends and kids. Try to do it at least every, you know, once a day, even if it's cut down in the afternoon. And definitely hitting all of the travel spots with my, you know, wife and kids and friends. So I would probably be taking off a week, a month to go on a, you know, to go on like a, you know, I don't want to say a mini trip, but a good, like a good solid trip. And then some longer ones to really hit some cool spots that I would like to be able to see and have some of those experiences with the people, with the people that I love.

18:27But I would still work. I would still work. I mean, if I can be productive, I want to be productive. do. Well, and, and I would argue that you are fulfilled by work in a similar way that you would be fulfilled, similar, but different than you would, that you would be fulfilled by the travel or a hobby or playing golf or something like that. It's something that you enjoy. You find mentally stimulating. You like the gamification of it. And is that fair to say? Yeah, it is. And I'll tell you what I almost started to say and then realized that it wasn't true. It just kind of sounded cool and noble.

19:02What I almost started to say was I would make sure to write down, you know, like write a book and try to write down and capture everything that I, you know, that I knew that all the lessons that I had learned along the way. Is that not in the Scalable Operating System book? That's not like, I think I've probably said it. Like if it is actually valuable, I think it's there yeah it's been demonstrated and it reminded me so um my oldest son uh just you know he's started his first year of college you know this we've talked about this um the the day before we left to to drive him up to um to college we he and I went and played golf and I had this idea that I was going to write out 18 like words of wisdom like chunks of wisdom and I was going to kind of reveal a new bit of wisdom to him on every single hole.

20:00Sounds cool, right? Well, what I realized is he will absolutely hate this. He will think that this is the lamest thing in the world and it will make him very uncomfortable. And, um, cause I know my son and, um, and so as we were driving out, I told him, um, I said, Hey, so I was thinking about doing this and I decided you would hate this. And, and, uh, so I, so I'm not, he went, Oh, thank God. Yeah. That would have been terrible. He's like, I just want to hang out. You know, I just, I just, you know, I just want to have fun. And I said, great. But what I would love to hear from you is what were some of the lessons that you have learned along the way?

20:35And I'll tell you, man, the stuff that he repeated to me, it was almost nothing I said. And it was things that were demonstrated. The first thing he said is, I got to see an example of a godly marriage. Was the very first thing I got to see. You and mom actually care about each other and the impact that has. That was not going to be one of my 18 things. And yet it was his number one lesson. And so I just think that, you know, more of, I would want to put more demonstration out in the world than try to write something down as though it's really that meaningful. It's all going to be forgotten. Yeah.

21:10Yeah. I think, um, I don't really have a legacy wish. I want to do good and impact people positively. And I, I know that I do that from, from all the things I do. And that's funny that you said the thing about the marriage, because both of our boys who are older now, um, have told us repeatedly that they love that they have had that in their life. It's a, it's, it's a great, it's a great gift if it's, if it's one that, that fits for you to be able to give. But, but yeah, I, I, I, for me, it's the same thing. I think that you would feel obligated to work less and to expand the experiences that you had and the time, which is now much more finite than you thought it was to spend with the people that you care about.

22:04And so that I think for me, like you, I would rescue that. I would not stop working because I would be bored out of my mind. And I'd probably drive everybody that loves me out of their minds because I'd be bored. I'd be like, okay, what do you want to do? Would you just go do something for work? So I think that's interesting. But I think that if we reflect back to the story that that the that poor old, old, old 46 year old man with his whole life, you know, run out on him did that he wouldn't have lived the 26 years that he regrets now the way that he had lived them where it was 100 percent work.

22:46And so I think that's an excellent thing for you to ask yourself is, you know, will I find myself 25, 30 years from now feeling like that person felt? And if so, what changes would you make? And one of the good ways to do that is to ask this question. You got five to 10 years left. Now, instead of not really thinking about how long you have left, not going to like an actuarial table and saying, oh, people my age typically only live this many more years, which is also an interesting thing to do because I think most people think that life is infinite until they get down to either told that it's not and there's an expectation of a cutoff point or they get up into the, you know, 80s, 90s, 100s, you know, then you're starting to think, am I going to wake up tomorrow?

23:32You know, but, but that whole time between, you know, whether you're five or, you know, or 60, you know, or 65, I guess I should say, you're still, you still have an awful lot of life left. And so asking yourself that question can be pretty helpful. Um, the last one is basically the same as the second one, but the, the time period you have left is 24 hours. So what, what would you do with your last day?

24:08I wouldn't work at all. I would definitely just spend, you know, the day with my, you know, day as a family with the kids. And I would try to have 30 minutes to an hour with each one of them individually. So we had some time together, typically around meals, have some time with each one of them individually. And then spend that evening with Emily. That's probably how I would, you know, spend that last one. But yeah, I mean, at that point, if it's down to that, yeah, man, there's, there's no, there's no, there's no work at that point. Cause you know, for me at the end of the day, like I, I am definitely like work is, is my purpose and it's, I'm sorry, work is how I add value and how I'm able to create a purpose out there.

24:54But, but all of that is fulfilled through, you know, my, through my kids and through my relationships and things like that. And so, yeah, if it's down that I get pretty, you know, I get pretty selfish and my world would shrink down pretty small to just, yeah, to just those five people. Yeah. Mine would be the same, not with your five people, but with, you know, that's good. Cause that may be very uncomfortable. It'd be weird. Yeah. I'm about to die. You know, I would definitely give you a call by the way. I would be like, Hey man. And so last time, toodles, love you, mean it. Thanks for the memories.

25:26But you'd get a phone call, a handful of people would get a phone call and that'd be freaking it. And then the rest of it just with my family. Well, I feel honored to be included in that. So the third, and then I want to kind of tie it all together from a financial planning standpoint or a life planning standpoint. So the third thing that I came across was a lady who was a hospice doctor who had helped hundreds of people transition. And so she always hears the things that they regret when they are literally on their deathbed. And some of the things were, I wish that I had the courage to live a life that was true to myself and not the life that others expected of me.

26:16And that this is typically listed as the top regret. So that people are not pursuing their personal passions and dreams versus what their family, the world, their parents, their spouses expect of them. And I think that's an interesting thing to think about. Another is I wish I hadn't worked so hard. So clearly an over, you know, like an over-representation of, uh, working and not following your passions and dreams. I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings, um, regret over suppressing their emotions to maintain peace, uh, which I think I see a lot, you know, just push it down, push, push those emotions down, uh, or avoid conflict, um, which, you know, kind of goes to open communication and emotional honesty.

27:07I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends. So another relational one, I wish that I had let myself be happier that many of the people that she talked with realized at the end that happiness is actually a choice that you can choose to be happy. And that instead they were focused really on things that were negative or external factors instead of being grateful for the simple joys that they had in their lives. And then a couple of the others, and then we'll wrap. Not spending enough time with loved ones, not taking more risks or pursuing more adventures and experiences, not forgiving themselves for past mistakes, which is, I think, what's happening to the guy that we read about the first.

27:52And then that becomes their life. Not taking better care of their health, which would give them longer to live, and not appreciating the present moment more fully. So kind of like tying all of that together, I think that the things that she observed those people saying are similar to the things that you and I said we would do differently if we had kind of, you know, let's call it FU money because I don't feel like I have FU money, but I feel like I'm set for life. I don't think you have FU money unless you've got some secret money that you're not telling me about. I'm telling you you're the IRS.