Reignite Your Fire: Navigating Burnout and Rediscovering Your Passion

0:00The only thing worse than being in a miserable situation is missing and pining away for the miserable situation.

0:12hey everybody welcome to another episode of business lunch with ryan dice my co-host and myself roland fraser nice to see you guys ryan nice to see you likewise nice to be seen good to see you you um are about to go on a little trip i am i'm gonna head to the fjords of norway And also we're going to this really cool place by my wife. So for my birthday, we have decided that we have decided that we should do my wife's lifelong dream of doing a boat up and through the fjords of Norway. And then we should do my wife's lifelong dream of having a nature excursion with these wolves at this place called the Wolf Lodge.

0:57and then we should pick up some clothes for my wife that we've had made and then probably go to London and I'm going to get to have tea, which is going to be good. Well, happy birthday to you. I'm going to get tea and then my wife is going to get a three-week kind of adventure thing. This is the adult equivalent. I remember when I was in elementary school, when it was your birthday, you brought cupcakes for everybody else in your class. And I remember thinking like, but it's my birthday. I feel like everybody should be bringing me cupcakes. This is stupid, but it's like, no, no, no. On your birthday, you bring cupcakes to the rest of the class.

1:38That's basically what you're now doing. It's your birthday. So you're bringing cupcakes to everybody else in your family, specifically Dawn. But you're ignoring the fact, and she's been very helpful in helping me see that her birthday season runs from the day after my birthday until till the day before my birthday. And then my birthday is basically my birthday. So if you think about it that way, it's, it's completely logical. Yeah. It's actually nice that she's sharing so much of her birthday season with you. I thought so too. And that like, she's not letting mine crowd out all the things that she wants to do.

2:12So it's, I mean, it works out. It's, it's, it's why your marriage is so successful. Um, cause you don't, you both give so much now. And the reason I mention it, I'm jealous, super, super duper jealous. I'm like really ready for a big trip because, man, I mean, we like to try to be like open, transparent about how things are going. We've been busting our butts the last few months, like just working hard. And exceptionally busy season in business for us both. Yes. Yeah. Like the end of 2023 was nutso. So multiple events, just working. I feel like the whole third quarter, the whole fourth quarter, October, November, December, and also right before that business sucked.

2:58I mean, like July, August, September was, you know, so I think, I think August, was it August? That was like the worst month that all of our businesses had, have had since the history of all of the businesses that we have, the ones that we have together. Yeah. And they were nice enough to stack them all up in the same month too. um so it was like let's work really hard just to try to keep you know keep keep things going to figure out like what happened and it was just a variety of reasons you know some seasonal some just like whatever that we've covered on other podcasts but yeah you had that and then the end of the year was just good but insane and then you know the first really this year right yeah it was great it was great like way better than than the summer so good also i think december it was one of those months, November or December was the best month that we had ever had in business.

3:44So like in the same year, a quarter apart, historical across all the years. And we've been in business together for 13, 14 years now. Right. Um, I mean, daggone worst, worst, worst, and then best, best, best. Um, and now coming into the new year, as you know, we always get a little hyped up, both of us with, you know, I'm going to do all these things. And so then we pursue all those things. And so basically I feel like since July of last year through now, which is a bunch of months, there's no way to know how many months that is, but there's, you know, what, seven, eight months of just go, go, go, go, go, which is unusual and not what either of us ultimately wants.

4:31Yeah. It's not what we want for, it's not what we want for, you know, our clients is not what we want for our listeners. It's not what we want for our portfolio company CEOs. And I know for a fact, it's not what we want, you know, for each other, but this is the journey. This is kind of, you know, the crap happens. So you double down opportunities there. So you chase it. New year is there. So you overcommit. I mean, it's just the same crap that everybody else does, but I'm freaking tired, you know, and you and I've got to hang out the last couple of days and just basically do almost nothing. It's been, it's been really nice, right?

5:05It's been great. And so I thought it would be good just to talk through, like, what do you do when you're burned out? Because if there's one thing I think is consistent and true across all entrepreneurs, most, we usually don't get bored, but we do get burned out. I mean, we'll get bored from time to time, but, but a burnout is very, very, very real. And it's not just tired because most of the entrepreneurs I know have tremendous energy. I think you and I have the ability to outwork pretty much anybody. Um, but you do just reach this point where you're just sort of done. And I thought it would be good just to one acknowledge that.

5:39Cause I bet there's other people who are out there, um, you know, thing. And I want to talk about this cause yeah, you and I were chatting and you're like, talk about all these things you're doing and I'm happy for you, but I'm also like, I kind of want to stab you in the throat right now. Um, cause, cause you're going to, and I think that's fair. Um, it's fair, but no, I think it would be good and a couple of vacations back to back as well, even though you were with your children and you may not feel like you got vacation. That's a trip. Yeah, so when the kids are there, it's a trip. And I love my children and it was wonderful, but that's a trip.

6:10A vacation is when it's just Emily and I. A notable distinction. But no, I think it'd be good to acknowledge, but also just what do you do when you're burned out? Because I don't think either of us reached that point necessarily this last year. Let's talk about what burned out is because I think you've got tired And tired can mean lots of things too. But I think of burnout as more almost mental healthy. You are incapable of burnt out. The fire is gone. And you are incapable of reigniting it to get excited about doing anything with respect to whatever it is you've done or maybe with respect to everything.

6:54And so if you're burnout on, let's just say business for this context, but if you're burnout on business, then I think you're kind of done. And that's a bad place to be if you want to figure out how to get back into it. I'm not sure that like, to me, burnout is out. So it would be very difficult to come back from that. Tired is, man, we've been really, really busy, which is where I think you and I are right now is like, we've been really, really busy and sure would like a break to get recharged. Cause I think that everyone needs to be recharged. You've got to have downtime to, to be at peak. Uh, you can't, you can't go at peak the whole time, but for so long before you will be burnt out.

7:37So, um, so let's clarify that. And I, and so do we want to talk about burnt out or do we want to talk about needing of a recharge? Well, I think so. I think the answer is yes, because what you just said is so accurate. It's so true. I've had so many people come to me and say, I'm burned out. And I'd be like, okay, when was the last time you had a vacation? When was the last time you took a break? I don't remember. It's been months and months and months. Like, okay. Well, what I want you to do is I want you this weekend to just literally do nothing. Oh, I can't. I've got this. No, you have to do it.

8:11And this is, again, if it's a client or team member or business partner, it's like, I'm going to demand this of you. Go away. And even better is if you could take a week. And one of the things that you and I do is I'll take a full 30 day vacation every year in addition to other ones, but at least once a year, basically take 30 days, 30 days off. And what I found time and time again is as little as just a real weekend where you don't check email, you don't do any work stuff. That is enough for me a lot of times when I think I'm burnt out to come back a little bit, you know, refueled, you know, know, rejuvenated and ready to go.

8:46And I think if you can take a weekend, definitely a week, um, to kind of get, you're not burned out. Um, you're tired and you need a, you need a break. So if you're there and you're, and you're using the term burned out, I would caution against that term. Cause I completely agree with you. Burnout, there is no more fire. It's gone. But the question I know that I ask myself is, um, am I still passionate about this? If everything were working great if it were working as i'd hoped it was before would i would i then be excited to do it yeah and if the answer is no that i think is what begins to separate burnout from not so like if it was all working would i do it so that's first question another question that i'll ask sometimes is um am i doing am i kind of in the right seat am i doing the right things.

9:41Because sometimes you're passionate about the project or the opportunity, but for now at least you've got to do stuff that you don't want to do because that's just, that's your job. Like when you're the entrepreneur, it's, well, today I'm cleaning toilets because that's what has to be done and I'm the only person, so I'm going to do it. But if I didn't have to do this and one day I won't, then, you know, yes, I would be excited about it. So that's kind of the second question. Then third question that I'll ask is like, am I just being impatient? Am I just wanting it to happen faster. And that last one, if, if, if it's a, if it's a yes to all of those things, I'm still passionate in it.

10:17You know, yes, I'm not doing, I'm not in the role that I ultimately want to be, but I, but that's okay. That'll change. And you know, yeah, maybe I'm being a little impatient. Then I know it's not a case of burnout. It's a temporary thing. And I maybe need to take a couple steps back. I maybe need to pause. I maybe need to get some help, but it's not burnout. That's kind of how I approach it. What about you? Yeah, I like that. I think it's interesting because you and I were talking an hour or so ago about an aspect of several of our businesses that you and I are both burnout on that we just don't want to do anymore.

10:55And that even though we have the opportunity to do it with great people, we get invited to do it all the time. It's just both of us are completely past it and don't want to do it. And even when it makes money, not interested. Like that's a very good example. We're just kind of done with that. And, uh, and I suspect that like, I think there are seasons for, for different things that, uh, you know, that you like in business that, that are fun, that you really enjoy. And then you kind of get everything you need and that you can out of that. And then it's, it's either you feel stagnated there, uh, or you feel bored, which I think is what we feel in, in that, in that situation that we're talking about.

11:39Uh, and you just don't have any desire to do it. Even if you were, even if it was working amazingly across the board and you were getting paid a lot of money and everything, it would have to be, and I think we talked about it, it would have to be multiples of what we get now for us to continue it, but we still probably wouldn't be happy. And we would be just doing it for the money. Right. And which is a terrible reason. Other ways to make money. And so the answer is, even if it were working, would you do it? No, I would do something else. Yeah. Um, and so that's it for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think that's great.

12:12So, and I, that's, you know, I hadn't quite made that connection. The idea that, uh, you know, and I think another good question to ask, which is what you just brought up there is, am I burnt out on the business as a whole or just one aspect of it? Right. Right. Um, Um, cause that's my question for myself. Yeah. Can, can this be reinvented, uh, in such a way that I don't have to do the part that I don't want to do without having to necessarily take the business out back and shoot it. I like the, what would have to be true question. So what would have to be true to me? You ask, if you start feeling that way, what would have to be true for me not to feel this way?

12:48What would have to be true for me to be completely excited on fire, hungry, invigorated, and eager to do this business. Then we can identify, well, it would have, I'd have to definitely stop doing, okay, great. You are burnt out on that. No, no problem. Unless that is the whole business, right? But chances are, it's not. And chances are, if it is, then it's, well, what would have to be true for you to be happy and eager and excited and all those things. And then you'll start to identify the things maybe that had you excited and happy about the business before that have gone away or that you've discovered are not the case.

13:30And that might be able to be hired out or independent contractor out so that you don't have to do that part of it anymore. You know, like, oh man, when I first got in, I loved coaching people, you know, or I love designing product or I loved traveling around and doing shows or whatever your business might be, you know, programming and coding, but now I'm kind of just like, I've been there, I've done it. I'm, I'm tired of it. You might still like the whole idea of the business and the benefit that it brings to your customers. And you just are tired of coding, traveling, you know, meeting, whatever the things are that you're doing.

14:05So then it's what would have to be true is I would have to find someone else that could do that part of the business so that I could focus on these other things. And then you can ask yourself, okay, well now if that was true, would I be excited about the business and happy to go forward? And if the answer is still no, you might be burnt out on the business. But if, as I think it frequently is, it's one of two things. It's either, yeah, man, if that was not part of what I had to do anymore, I would absolutely be psyched to do this, which is kind of what you and I were talking about. And that is fantastic.

14:43And if you can, if you can get to that place, then you will be excited about the business and you're not burnt out. And then the other question is, am I just tired of that? Do I actually like, do I like doing that generally? I've just done it so much that I need a break from it. And if I could get that break kind of to what you were saying, then, you know, would I be able to go on? I think that's, that's really how I look at it. So what do you do if you determine like, Like, yeah, no, I really am burned out. And on this particular piece of the business or the thing that I'm burned out in the business kind of is the business.

15:17And I can't think of a way to bring somebody in from the outside or to reinvent. Or maybe I could, but I just don't want to do that. Yeah. So first question to me is, where do I have momentum that I could redirect? Because it's so hard to build momentum and it takes years. And if you've been creating a business that has momentum, that has customers, that has employees, that is a good business, then you have a couple of things you can ask. One is, could I pivot? Which to me, again, I like that what would have to be true question. Because what would have to be true is we'd have to stop serving these people with this service and serve these people with that service.

15:57can you take the machine that you've built and move it so that it's focused on this thing that would be fulfilling and exciting? And if you can't do that, then I think it's a perfect time to say, can I exit this business? Is there someone else that might be interested in acquiring the machine that we've built so that I can get paid for it, typically multiple years of profit all in a day, and then use that to go acquire another thing that I want to do, or maybe just invest and take it easy for a couple of years. How about you? Yeah. So I love that. And I love what you said about how can I redirect the momentum?

16:41Cause that is so important because what a lot of people fail to do when they're burned out is they, they fail to, to invest the time to think about, well, what would I want to do if I weren't burned out? And so we get in a position, we put ourselves in the position where we're running from something as opposed to running towards something. And in any case, if you are burned out right now, please invest the time while you go and take a 10 day vacation. Cause maybe while you go and take a 10 day vacation or whatever, you realize, you know, I do kind of miss that business. And I was just a little tired and I got a little grumpy and like, I'm back at it.

17:16But if you come, you're like, no, I am like if halfway through you realize, no, I just don't want to do it anymore. Then start thinking about what would I want to do? Because I think the only thing more frustrating and depressing than being kind of stuck in a business that you hate or in a job that you hate or a role that you hate, circumstances that you hate, is finally shedding that and getting that thing gone from your life, but realizing that you have nothing else now either that's any better. Which happens to a lot of people that sell And then they pine away for the, for what they lost and they miss the thing that they hated.

17:57And I think the only thing worse than being in a situation, right. It gets, it gets to be like, you know, remember when it was just like, if you have an ex, right. You know, some people have, have the ex and then that person is terrible to them. And then they break up and then they're alone and they're like, Oh, that person was actually really nice. Like, no, they weren't. You were miserable. The only thing worse than being in a miserable situation is missing and pining away for the miserable situation. And so just make sure, I love the steps here of, let's see, are you just tired? Take a break.

18:32Can it be redirected? What would need to be true? But ultimately, if you decide like, no, no, no, I am burnt out. I need to make a change. I need to sell it. Amazing. But make sure that you're running towards something, not simply away from something because you do not want to be in a situation. You think you're sad and depressed now. Wait until that thing that, that makes you, you know, scared to wake up in the morning is gone and you're even more depressed. That's the freaking worst. And you and I both know people who got themselves in that situation. And people that sold people that sold something that they enjoyed for the money also, and then realized that that was gone and they were no longer needed or wanted and they found themselves kind of a C, right?

19:17And that, yeah, that, that is, that is also less, that is also very much less good. I do think, I wish that more entrepreneurs would do what you're doing. I think it's safe to say that there's a lot of stuff going on right now, business-wise. We got a lot of stuff going on. The time that you're leaving is not a quote-unquote good time because there's no such thing. And I've also had that double time to get my responsibilities covered. Yeah. Like the things I had to create the things I had to do. And then, you know, some of the things where we have to substitute people in, I know you're going to stand in for some, some calls for me and things like that.

19:53But, uh, but that's also the benefit of having partners is that, uh, they can help make those things happen too. I do think it's never a perfect time, but you got, well, there's never a perfect time, but you got to still do it. You do. Yeah. And, and that's what I was going to say. So, uh, one of our mutual friends, uh, Steve is probably he and Kevin Harrington are probably the two energizer bunny-est people that we know that like, yeah, they'll, the breakfast is with, you know, a critical client meeting in Tasmania and dinners with, you know, seven people a flight away. And then, you know, lunch i mean it's like just insane schedules truly just to me if you didn't know better you would assume they were on drugs constantly or multiple people like a team of people okay so this is your teen calendar right no no this is mine oh what yeah you know good but yeah but um but i i told steve uh i said you know you've got to like because he was feeling kind of tired and stuff and i was like man you just gotta uh he wanted to spend time with his kids like man my kids have this thing and you know but i've got all this stuff like tomorrow will come and your kids will be older and these things will be done or not done and i think you have to have the um the strength to say it's gonna be okay and what happens happens and if that stuff doesn't work out and those potential opportunities go away it's okay there will be more you are you are a manifesting machine of a person, you will make things happen.

21:30And so the things that you value and are important, and you've done a great job of this with your kids, right? Is if you want to go and have this time with your kids, go and have the time with your kids and your business needs to adjust to that. And if it can't, then we need to look at what do we need to do to the business to let it accommodate you having a personal life because you deserve one. You need one. Your kids need you. You need time with them and you need downtime. So you know what? Just do it and let's see what happens, right? Because my thing is just generally until the day it doesn't.

22:05And at that point I won't care because I won't be here, right? Tomorrow comes until it doesn't. Tomorrow is always going to come. And so if you're not doing the things that are most important to you now because of things that you feel obligated to do, or, you know, opportunities that you feel won't come back around. You need to just say, I mean, and okay, if it's, if it's a one-time opportunity that is here now, but if it's, there's always opportunities and therefore you can never do anything because there'll be more opportunities that can't be missed, then you probably can miss them. Right. If you were all of your life trying to get a contract with Elon Musk and Elon is going to be there tomorrow and you have never had the opportunity to meet him and your buddy has set it up and it's kind of like we're getting together to talk about doing this, then yeah, don't be irresponsible.

22:50That one day your family can say, we're going to take a backseat to our future family. Right. But if it's every day, then something's off. And so I think you just have to, to, to carve out that time and say, that's time I'm going to hold in violet. I'm going to make it happen. And you know what world you're just going to have to deal with it. And I think that's a, there's a lot of power in that. And I think that's it. I think we get burnt out when we feel like we're powerless. And so sometime just making a decision of like, you know what, screw it, I'm going to do it anyway. Just that is enough to allow us to fall in love again with our businesses and with our work.

23:27When we make it clear to ourselves that we own these companies, these companies don't own us. And all too often, we will become embittered and get angry with perfectly good businesses because we have allowed ourselves to become owned by those businesses. The business didn't do it all on its own. Like we let that happen. So maybe take this as your wake up call if you're a little burned out to take a vacation, take a break, take some time off, go sail the fjords and see the Northern Lights and go kick it with some wolves. Maybe that's what everybody needs. Go howl at the moon. That's the prescription.

24:03You heard it here on Business Lunch First. Awesome. Well, guys, hopefully this was helpful to you. And if you found it so, then please share it with a friend. And if you didn't, then keep it to yourself. And we will see you next time on Business Lunch.

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