The Art of Curating Your Advisory Board

0:00I can tell you it is shameless but it's also it really is sincere I was I was chatting with with actually my wife and I was talking to the to Matt who's who's on our team here and you know just I really if there's one thing that's true about COVID it is a reminder of how important it is to get together in the same room and you and I just got back from spending a week together in in in the UK and we talk literally every single week but something changes when you're actually there in person in the flesh. So I would just say to everybody out there, if you don't have that kind of community, if you don't have that kind of group, you're missing it.

0:38Whether you realize it or not, you're missing it.

0:44Hey, everybody. Welcome to Business Lunch Podcast with your hosts, Ryan Dice and me, Roland Frazier. We are excited to get with you guys today. And And how you doing, Ryan? I'm doing so great. You're not doing so great? Well, no, we're in that awkward, we're in the final stages of prepping for Get Scalable Live, you know, which is our big annual event that we do. And we're kind of in that. It's always tough because everybody waits until the last minute to get their ticket. So I know it's going to be, you know, amazing. I know it's going to be awesome. But it's like this lull between when you first announce it, everybody's like, yeah, I'm excited.

1:20I definitely want to be there. And then there's kind of this lull where you see ticket sales start to, you know, dip. And I know this. I mean, you and I have been running events for 10 for over a decade. So I know that it's the case, but it's one of these things where you're like, everybody, this is going to be awesome. Because I do think, you know, I was I was thinking back to covid and covid times. And I remember I remember getting off one day when it was just all back to back to back Zoom meetings, which I think is what kind of characterized all of 2020. And I just remember thinking like, God dang it, I'm so freaking over this.

1:55You know, we need to get back together with other people. And I think especially for entrepreneurs, we don't have a lot of places that we can go to hang out with other entrepreneurs, people who are like us, where we can brag, you know, and people will clap for us and applaud us. or we can just whine and complain and people will empathize with us because we can't do that with our normal friends. You can't brag because if you have any level of success, you know, they think you're being arrogant. You certainly can't complain because you live in the big house. And so I just think it's so important for bootstrapped entrepreneurs in particular to have a place where they gather.

2:36It seems like funded startups do this really, really well. Certain industries do it, you know, do it pretty well. But I do think that it's vital that entrepreneurs get together. And I know that's that. So I'm very excited. We've got our event coming up. But I do hope, shameless plug, GetScaleableLive.com. If you're a bootstrapped entrepreneur, want to grow from 10 million to 100 million, you should definitely be there. And ticket prices aren't going up and hotel rooms are being sold out. So that is a way of answering your question of how I'm doing while also shamelessly plugging our event. What do you think, Roland?

3:12I think you did a fantastic job. I like it. And I appreciate shamelessness, especially when it's in my firms and business partners. I can tell you it is shameless, but it's also, it really is sincere. I was chatting with actually my wife and I was talking to Matt, who's on our team here. And, you know, just, I really, if there's one thing that's true about COVID, it is a reminder of how important it is to get together in the same room. I mean, you and I just got back from spending a week together in the UK. And we talk literally every single week. But something changes when you're actually there in person in the flesh.

3:49So I would just say to everybody out there, if you don't have that kind of community, if you don't have that kind of group, you're missing it. Whether you realize it or not, you're missing it. Hey, Ryan Dice here, co-host of Business Lunch. And before we get to the show, I have an exciting invitation for you. My business partner and Business Lunch co-host, Roland Frazier, and I are hosting a live in-person event. And if you're a bootstrap business owner who wants to build a$10 million and even$100 million business in the next three years, you need to be there. This event is called Get Scalable Live.

4:19And over the last four years, it has transformed from a small gathering of entrepreneurs into the largest bootstrapped entrepreneurship conference in North America. Now, I know what you might be thinking. You're probably thinking, Ryan, really another business event? is that really what we need? But trust me, this isn't just any other event. You see, unlike most conferences at Get Scalable Live, you'll have dedicated time to take action and actually work on your business instead of just in your business. Over three days, you'll work shoulder to shoulder with like-minded entrepreneurs to implement what you're learning and get valuable feedback that you're just not going to be able to get during the normal day today.

4:56You're going to be immersed in fresh ideas, strategic insights, and you're going to get the support and guidance that you need to actually reach your business goals. So this is your opportunity. This is your chance to step out of the day-to-day to eliminate the noise and finally work again on your business, not just in your business. And if you implement, I'm confident about this, if you implement just one or two key insights from any of our sessions into your business, you're bound to see a return on investment much higher than what we could ever charge for admission. And by the way, speaking of admission, right now, Business Lunch listeners can save an additional 10 % off of our already low early bird ticket pricing.

5:37So just head over to GetScaleableLive.com and use promo code LUNCH at checkout. Again, that's GetScaleableLive.com, promo code LUNCH. It is truly amazing what can happen when you step out of the day-to-day and spend just a little bit of time surrounded by other powerful business owners. And since this opportunity only comes around once a year, you don't want to miss it. Again, the link is GetScaleableLive.com. And don't forget to use promo code LUNCH at checkout to save up to 67 % off the full ticket price. That's all I got. I'll see you in Austin. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

6:19I like it. Speaking of that, that's a good segue into what I would like to talk about. I received an invitation yesterday and obviously I'm super flattered that I received an invitation to join a paid, a paid group of people that were getting together. I qualified, Brian. So, you know, suck it. No, they're going to let you in. It's like it's like in. Oh, gosh, what was the movie with Jim Carrey? Jim Carrey. I think it was. Yes. Or something like that. And and the guy's like, you know, I can get you into this very exclusive club. And he's like, what is it? It's like Sam's Club. He's like, I can get you in.

6:59But yeah, I got this invitation and I sent it to you and said, what do you think of this? And what it was, I think it's called Sidebar or something like that. But it's a peer group that is put on by one of the newspapers or one of the media properties in San Francisco. It seems like it's more localized to that. so I'm not sure why I received it, but maybe they're expanding. There are lots of groups like this. There's one from long ago. I don't know if they're still around, Alternative Board, and several of them. Vistage, EO, YPO. Yeah, I mean, there's... Well, no, no, not really those because they're not...

7:42Oh, so what's different? Then tell me what's different because I was kind of lumping them all in the same basket. What's different about these particular groups? Well, I know EO has groups. The ones that I've usually been to have been the larger meetings to speak at. I know that they also have smaller groups of like 10 or 12 people. And, um, but, but the focus of this particular one was, Hey, the, the magic is in having a board of directors. Um, they said board of directors. I think that's kind of scary as a recovering attorney because directors have a liability and advisors don't. So I'm, I would always rather be on a board of advisors than directors.

8:19But, um, but the, the pitch was basically, you definitely do better when you have a board of directors. Um, and therefore we are putting, but it's hard to find peers to do that. So we're facilitating the putting together and we're facilitating the meetings and the meetings are virtual. And so it's basically just paid zoom meetings with the facilitator, with people connecting you to, you know, people that apply and, and somehow get curated into this group of, of similarly situated entrepreneurs. And so, um, I sent it to you because I know we have a program that's like that. That's part of our founders board.

8:59And, um, And I'd love for you to talk about it because when you and I were putting together the seven levels of scale for scalable, one of those levels is have your board of advisors. I think that's level four. And it is very, very number five. OK, it got it got demoted. But I'm just kidding. But yeah, I think that it's it's something that's worth talking about for everybody here, because you guys might be getting invitations like this, too. You might be thinking about groups like YPO. You might be thinking about Founders Board. you might be thinking about sidebar. What is the advantage of a group of people who are there to advise you if they have a vested interest, which typically a board of directors does because they have some level of equity or options in a company, they're generally going to pay attention.

9:47You're curating them yourself by getting, say, a financial person and a legal person and a couple of well connected people in the industry and maybe a well connected person outside the industry. Um, and that's, that's what typically makes up a board of directors, board of advisors. They typically are not, and the board of directors actually elects the officers of your company. So they're going to vote and choose. They're going to approve major initiatives. They're going to approve like a sale of the company or major acquisitions, things that are beyond the scope of what the CEO is allowed to do.

10:20So they, they actually have power. And if you get a bad board of directors, or if you lose control of the board, you can actually get booted out of your own company, just ask Steve Jobs and a whole bunch of other people. So I think understanding that difference is important for everyone. But then it gets to what do you do to put one together? And so I'd like to talk about that. First, I'd like to get your opinion on these different groups. What do you think of the, I don't know as much about YPO, but I have spoken to very small groups at YPO that are kind of like groups of people that hang out.

10:59They're not directors. They're more just like in this sub, sub, sub section. EO, I know has, I think they call them forums, which is the smallest segment that then, you know, they get, they get together with 10 or 12 people. And, uh, Sarah Blakely, who's spoken at our events and, um, and whatnot has been a member and continues to be a big fan of that and says good things about it. And then you have these just boards like Sidebar and Board of Advisors. And I think the one that you were in, which escapes me right now, Vistage, was that what it was? Yeah, and Vistage is very much like an EO. Both EO and YPO have forums that are the small group kind of deals.

11:36And then they will also have the larger, you know, big events. And Vistage is that same way. I mean, they broadly categorize. And I love the first big distinction, which is the one you made that I think is really important. is the distinction between a board of directors who these are people with actual legal entity based responsibility, they can fire you there, the boss of the CEO and advisory boards. So let's set aside board of directors. We're really talking about what does it look like to have a board of advisors? And when it comes to a board of advisors, that can be varying degrees of formal.

12:11So a formal board of advisors, and you see this a lot with funded companies, this is where somebody that they're given in some cases a small stake of equity. It might be a quarter point or even a half a point I've seen in some cases in the company to be an advisor to the CEO. So they don't have any legal liability or responsibility from a governance perspective. They're there just to help the CEO. And I think that these can be really great if they're formalized. And oftentimes it's the investor and the CEO that's going to pull those together. So that's kind of a formal board of advisors. Then what you have might be an informal board of advisors.

12:49And this is where just you as the entrepreneur, you as a CEO are saying, I want to go around and ask people, hey, are you open to me talking to you from time to time? You know, basically, if I have questions, can I reach out to you? And you're essentially asking for people to serve in some type of mentorship advisory capacity in a mostly informal basis. Now, that's something that everybody can do if you have the network. Now, a lot of people don't already have that network. They don't have, they don't know a lot of people in kind of who are at their level or ideally just a little bit above where they've been that they can tap where they have that relationship, where they can make that ask.

13:25That's where masterminds come into play. And masterminds are typically paid entry. There's some level of qualification. And to access this mastermind, what you're really getting access to here is other people who are at your level or a little bit above so that you can form those relationships. Now, these masterminds, they also take on a number of different forms. So there are large group masterminds where there is a leader ahead of the program, somebody who's leading that mastermind, who's saying these are the things that matter. They're helping to curate the meetings and things like that. And then there are peer led masterminds.

14:03And that really is what the EO, YPO, what a lot of these, they're peer group masterminds. and of all of the different versions of it, that is actually my least favorite. It's the one that most people do. It's typically the least expensive because again, it's kind of everybody just deciding that they're going to meet and that they're going to aggregate. They're going to go, if it's a, if it's a local one, they're going to, they're going to meet in the different offices of the people I've found in my experience in being with these, they can be outstanding, but they're really only as good as the people who are allowed to be in that group.

14:41And because they need to be managed by the group, because there's not one unique defined leader, they have a way of just sort of fizzling out or not being very good. They can be really, really, really, you know, hit or miss. And because it's nobody's unique responsibility to make sure that it's amazing, they wind up kind of fizzling out. I've also seen it's really tough to get these things going. And what I don't recommend that somebody do is one that is a purely virtual peer mastermind. If you're not meeting in person, I just have not seen these. Somebody's going to call out, oh, I've got one.

15:19I've, you know, I've had a group of people we've been meeting every month for the past 15 years, you know, over, it was teleconference and now we're doing it over Zoom and it's worked great. There's always the exception. I've just seen it work. Never times I've tried it and the people who I know have been involved. So I think the ultimate hack and what I recommend, and this sounds very self-serving because we lead one, but I do believe that the best hack is to join a mastermind that has the kind of people in the room that you know you want to connect with and then to leverage that group really to begin to build largely informally your own advisory board.

15:59And there are certain groups, like I know we look to facilitate this within Founders board. But I do believe that if you're going to join some type of mastermind, you want to join one that you're paying to play because that friction is going to make sure that there's really solid people in there. It means they take it seriously. A lot of these groups, the reason they fizzle out is because there's no investment in it. There's no consequence if they don't show up. They're not going to get kicked out and lose their investment. So I think joining one, I would avoid the virtual peer ones. The in-person peer ones can be good, but you need to know that it's amazing and be invited by somebody else because it really hit or miss.

16:42If you're just getting this, you want to expand your network. A mastermind that is led by somebody who you respect, who if you like them, then probably you're going to like the people that are in the group because most of these groups mirror the people that started them. they tend to attract people who share those same values. And they're out there. And I do believe it's the ultimate hack. Man, that's how you and I met, right? Was through a mastermind that I'd started back in the day. But those are the different types. And those are the ones that I would maybe go towards and avoid. Yeah. And what do you, like, do you have personal thoughts on what you feel?

17:20Obviously, we have the ones we put on as far as what you feel for you, where you are today, how are you dealing with board of directors, board of advisors? I think any entrepreneur, if you've made the investment like we've made in masterminds, so we both run them and we're in them. If you do this for a decade or longer, you now don't really need to be in those masterminds anymore because what you've done is by being in them and by making the investment, you now have built your own personal network. And so for me personally, I'm not in a lot of them anymore. We run them because for you and I, it's a way to give back.

18:03It is an additional revenue stream, but we do it because it's deal flow. It also keeps us sharp. It keeps us in the game. But if people wonder like, oh, why do you run it? Those are the reasons why we do it. But me personally, and I know you and I have talked about this, we're kind of at a point where I'm not going to say that I'm, ooh, I'm better than that. I don't need to be in those rooms because I'm smarter than everybody else. It's not that. It's that we now have curated people that we know and that we trust and that we do life with and that we do business with. And at this stage in the game for us, it's kind of hard to imagine that there wouldn't, if a business challenge would arise, there's any number, half a dozen different people we can text and expect to get a reply because we have those relationships.

18:50And I think that that's the goal that everybody should have. It's just really hard to get those if you don't start in a room that's already assembled the kind of people that you want. Yeah. I think the thing that I've been kind of flirting with is because you and I are at the same place and we talk about it. And I, you know, met you and most of the people that I know through Masterminds. And that's either being in them or being invited to speak and share and get to network, which I think is, speaking of hacks, to me, a wonderful hack is to speak. If you have something that you can share that people find valuable, then you can go and meet all these people, give value and receive value in return without having the commitment of the regular attendance.

19:36Because as much as I would have liked to have joined YPO or OPO, I don't know what the old person's one is now, but or or, you know, Tiger 21 and the A360 and all of those, every single one of them is very clear with you up front that you have to be at all the meetings. And I have no desire to be bound by that level of commitment to, you know, to a group. I just it's not for me. And I know lots of people, you know, our friend John has been part of several of those and he's, you know, religiously attends all of them because you're required to. And I feel like I'm giving up too much of my own schedule because they're pretty demanding.

20:23It's like being on, you know, having a kid on a travel team, you know, so you've got to go. Which, by the way, is the only way it works. Like it only works if everybody is committed. So if you're looking to join one of these groups, you want them to do, you want them to have that requirement. And you need to be willing to commit to it. Otherwise, I promise you the thing's not going to last. But I see where you're coming from. At this stage in the game where you are, you're like, I don't need it badly enough that I'm willing to make that level of commitment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it just, I guess, I was just checking because the timer on our thing was dark.

20:59I was like, oh, I hope we're recording. The, um, the, here's, here's the thing that I've, I've come up with is that it's, um, and you can help me choose the word for it, but it's either the deconstructed board, which I kind of like better than decentralized. The deconstructed board is, I think about it like when they give you a deconstructed, um, s'more, you know, for dessert, it's some chocolate and a graham cracker and a marshmallow and they're not together. And then you, you know, Reese's collide them all together and make your own thing. I feel like before you have your network fully developed, and obviously you're always working on your network, but in the first five years or so of getting into peer groups and things like that, I think masterminds, there's just nothing like them.

21:51that it accelerates your connectivity so much more than anybody that's not doing that. It's a formal process to expand your network. I love it. I'm very grateful for it. And I probably went a couple of years longer than that. And the truth be told, I wasn't really getting that much out of it after that. And I was going, but it's like, I already knew the people that I wanted to know. There were not that many new people coming in. I had a pretty full calendar between those people that I already knew the events of the masterminds and, you know, the other things that I was doing. And so, you know, eventually it was just like, I came to not enjoy it.

22:28And so like I would go, but I would be outside the room, just talking with people that I already knew, you know, anyway, and maybe they'd introduced me to somebody, but, but what I found is that I could actually have my board of advisors. And it's because I go to the UK with you and we hang out, I go to lunch with John. I go, you know, meet with Mark and I've got, you know, my, I have, you know, Deanna and my wife, who's a pretty good advisor. Right. And, and we don't get together in a formal meeting, but I am constantly having conversations with the people in my life that I have identified as helpful and valuable to me from a career standpoint, from a personal development standpoint and from a business standpoint, and I don't need to have facilitation.

23:19I'm going to have one-on-one and my one-on-one is going to be better than the, you know, kind of elusive synergy that is supposed to happen when you get those people together. Not because there isn't synergy in having people together, but because where I am and where they are and our businesses are, I just find it to be more more effective to get very concentrated doses of time as opposed to, you know, a lot of people because there's also a lot of dead time during those events, you know, which is for networking. But if you don't have to network, you know, so that's kind of my thought. What do you think about that?

23:55The deconstructed boards? Yeah, I think I think that should be the goal. The goal of every entrepreneur should be to have a an informal advisory board of people who you know that you can call based on any issue or challenge that you would have in business. And so if it's legal, you know that you've got somebody who really gets the legal and compliance aspect of your industry. If it's marketing related, you know that you've got somebody sales related. And so if you think about any issue or challenge that you could face as a business owner, as a CEO, there should be a name or two for any category of issue, challenge, or opportunity that could pop up or you go, if it's something in this category, here are two or three people I could call.

24:37Once you have that, then I do believe that the formalized large group mastermind loses some of its value because it's just so much more efficient to go to those people. Until you have that, the shortcut to getting it is to get into these larger groups and look to build it over time. Now, the reason that it makes sense and what I think is important is you're saying based on where you are right now, right? Now, that doesn't mean that you reach a point where you arrive and you now never need to go back to a mastermind. What it means is the next time you say, ooh, there's an area of my business, there's a new opportunity that I don't have that person for.

25:14So what I think is I need to be in a mastermind. And I'll give you an example of this that happened to me as recently as last week. I just got back from an author mastermind that was hosted by my friend Donald Miller, who wrote StoryBrand, and Mike Michalowicz, who wrote Profits First. These are people who have sold millions of books, business and otherwise. And they have this author mastermind thing that they do once a year. And I was like, hey, please, please, pretty please, can I get an invite to that? Happy to pay whatever it costs because I now have a book in the market. I want to grow as an author.