What Luxury Clients Expect: An Owner's Rep on Better Project Delivery | 706

0:00Megan Turner: Typically, architects aren't the most sophisticated financial people.

0:04Rion Willard: Hello, Architect Nation, and welcome back. This is the right place for you if you run an architectural practice. Today, we're looking at what makes clients trust an architecture firm with bigger, more complex projects and why great design alone isn't always enough. Because at the highest end of the market, your competition may not be another architect. It may be every other exceptional experience your client has come to expect. On today's episode, you'll discover why understanding what your client really values can prevent expensive surprises and make you far easier to trust. What the best architecture firms do differently when balancing great design with budget, schedule and the realities of getting it built.

0:47Why the client experience happening around the architecture could become one of your firm's biggest competitive advantages.

0:53Rion Willard: In today's episode, I sit down with Megan Turner, founder of ML Turner. Megan has spent years on the construction and owner's representation side of extraordinary residential projects, which means she gets to see architecture firms from a perspective architects rarely get to hear. She knows what makes a project team exceptional and what causes beautifully designed projects to go sideways and what makes a client want to work with the same people again and again. And her perspective might change the way that you think about what your clients are really buying when they hire your firm. Megan has also been a Smart Practice Program member for the last year, and it's been an absolute pleasure and privilege to be working with her.

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2:52Rion Willard: To download a free guide for building a remote team for a small architectural practice, go to businessofarchitecture.com forward slash world teams. That's one word, businessofarchitecture.com forward slash world teams. As a reminder, sponsorship is not an endorsement and you must do your own due diligence before entering into any business relationship. Go to businessofarchitecture.com forward slash world teams. You've built a practice that balances design, delivery, and client trust. But when it comes to taxes, your firm's structure might be quietly working against you. At Gelt, we specialize in helping architecture firms uncover hidden tax inefficiencies, from outdated ownership setups to missed expense opportunities and project-level tax traps.

3:38Rion Willard: Even well-run studios can leave five figures on the table each year simply because their financial foundation hasn't evolved as the firm has. Gilt helps you design a smarter structure, one that turns your firm's growth into real savings and stronger take-home income. Gilt, tax strategy built for architects. Don't wait for next tax season. Schedule your complimentary consultation at joingilt.com. That's J-O-I-N-G-E-L-T dot com to learn more and mention BOA when you sign up. Megan, welcome to the Business of Architecture. How are you?

4:12Megan Turner: I'm wonderful. Thank you so much for having me.

4:14Rion Willard: What a treat. to have you here. Of course, you are one of our esteemed clients and I know that this is your first podcast, so I am delighted to be sharing that first time experience with you. A little introduction about you. You are Megan Turner. You're the founder of ML Turner, a California-based luxury home builder and construction project manager and owner's rep. You do a lot of work on the West Coast there specializing in high-end custom homes and complex historic renovations. And I know that you've worked with a lot of architects in your career, your business partners and with another one of our clients with Paradise Build.

4:58Rion Willard: And you've got a tremendous experience in the construction industry and you've seen it from multiple viewpoints, which I think really makes it fascinating for us to sit down and have a conversation, for you to shed some light on your insights and experience and how you've grown and developed your business. So welcome to the show.

5:20Megan Turner: Well, thank you. Thank you for the intro. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here.

5:25Rion Willard: My pleasure. So perhaps we'll start off with a little bit about your journey. And perhaps you could tell us how you ended up moving into construction management and owner's representation.

5:38Megan Turner: I studied architecture. I worked as a general contractor for years, got my license about 15 years ago. And ultimately, early in my career, I thought success was about being the person with all the answers. And over time, I realized that my greatest value wasn't knowing every trade. It was seeing how all the pieces fit together and helping people make better decisions before, you know, expensive mistakes happen or big delays. And so we just sort of realized that on my projects, I was always looking kind of at the bigger picture and trying to foresee what could go wrong. And and it just sort of like it happened where I had this opportunity to to move into construction management.

6:25Megan Turner: And I just really enjoyed the process of like concept to completion and bringing people together in that way.

6:33Rion Willard: Was there a moment in your career where you realized that there was a gap between like good design, great design and great project delivery?

6:42Megan Turner: Yes, absolutely. I was working on a project and it was on the coast. It was California Coastal Commission, high water table, dewatering circumstances that needed to be done. And the logistics plan, honestly, when we put together the logistics plan and presented it to ownership and the architecture team, it was one of those moments where I was just like, okay, there's more to it. it's in order to successfully deliver a project, you really have to kind of get into the weeds of it before you even break ground. And that was kind of the moment when it was like that process was really fascinating to me because everywhere you build is going to be a different strategy.

7:31Megan Turner: And so it's kind of understanding that.

7:34Rion Willard: So you said you mentioned you started off studying architecture so you have a sort of good appreciation of yes of design how come you didn't

7:44Megan Turner: pursue that path what was it that kind of I sat in my crits at Columbia University with these exceptional classmates of mine and I would go how that's really interesting but like how is that built you know like what does that string represent in your model and I was just so much more intrigued by the making it happen than selling my own designs. I would, um, I was an athlete in college. So half the time I would have to present and, you know, my like workout gear and it was selling my designs was not my favorite part. It was really kind of thinking about the means and methods of making my classmates, um, presentations a reality.

8:26Megan Turner: And so I ended up going to my advisor and she put me in touch with one of the premier New York City residential construction firms. And I got to do projects, you know, all over New York and landmark buildings and, you know, 150 year old townhouses. And it was incredible.

8:47Rion Willard: Wow. Was it part of the Columbia itself as well? Columbia is quite a conceptual avant-garde school, right where it can kind of it can lean into some pretty heavy academia uh ways of thinking did you did you feel that the education was potentially somewhat divorced from

9:05Megan Turner: health like construction reality or construction science yes absolutely it was it was all about like what can be the most um you know thinking outside of the box and and you know we we hand drew pretty much everything. We really didn't even get into AutoCAD until like the very end of college. And so everything was just, it was very like art history based and, um, you know, modernism for a classical, a classically architecturally designed, you know, university with McKinme and Royte buildings everywhere. Um, the program was like very modern and, um, and so kind of just pushing that envelope and there wasn't a whole lot of like, um, And to me, it wasn't like the backbone of learning how these buildings come together, you know.

9:57Megan Turner: And I sometimes got like, not frustrated, but I was just like, OK, again, how? You know, like we're in a building right now that has so much more to it than that, you know, glass box. So it was transformative.

10:12Rion Willard: When you began working in the firm in New York, what was your role and what kind of experience were you getting like actually on site and seeing how things were built?

10:24Megan Turner: So my first when I interned, I worked in the estimating department. And so I got to see drawings of homes that were, you know, massive, you know, Hamptons estates to historic pita tears in New York City. and so I got to really see such a spread of different types of projects and then when I got hired after my internship I was working in the New York City office and it was you know having projects that were you know all over town I really got to learn New York City so because I was an assistant project manager I was on site all the time but we had like five projects that the project manager and I were on together.

11:11Megan Turner: And so I would traverse from the Upper East Side down to the West Village and in between. And so I got to really, A, see the built environment of New York City and what it is to like work in high rises and, you know, 150, 200 year old homes. But also like see different building methods, like on my way to and from work. It was a very, it was just a really amazing experience because I got to spend so much time on job sites and that but also really you know making my way around New York City during my work day and not being stuck in an office like so many of my classmates were. It's it's really interesting like that

11:52Rion Willard: kind of was this when you were younger were you always interested in like how things were fabricated and put together?

11:58Megan Turner: Yeah.

11:58Rion Willard: And that was that was kind of what my dad was a builder.

12:01Megan Turner: right and we used to drive um he worked in burbank which is where my grandparents lived and he would always point out you know oh we built that or like i'm working on that right now and i've loved the tangibility of his work that like oh wow like my dad built that building that's pretty cool you know and um and i think that kind of like sucked me in and then you know i have an older brother and so it was like he didn't want to play dolls he wanted to play legos or transformers or stuff You know, it was more about like, you know, making ramps like for our bikes and stuff. You know, I was a tomboy.

12:37Megan Turner: So I just had to I always had that inquisitive nature. But then I like, you know, grew up with boys. So I got to an earlier start on, you know, building things because, you know, most little girls aren't getting Legos for their birthday.

12:55Rion Willard: you know how did how did you go from working for somebody else to taking the plunge and setting up

13:02Megan Turner: your own endeavors your own company um honestly like my husband was a big um part of it he is has such an entrepreneurial spirit and when we met i was like oh my gosh no way no way and and um i remember being like but if if i go out on my own like we're not gonna have health insurance And he's like, no, you just like, we buy health insurance. And I was like, oh, like it didn't occur to me that like, I didn't have to be reliant on somebody else. Like I had enough, I had enough connections and I've just, I feel like relationships are so important in this business. And I just try and maintain really great relationships with people and, you know, professors and stuff.

13:43Megan Turner: And I just got this opportunity to transition into the construction management field and, you know, reconnected with old clients and let them know where I was and what I was doing. And it just kind of took off from there. And then I got the bug.

13:58Rion Willard: Was it was your was the first business in New York or did you relocate to the West Coast?

14:03Megan Turner: No, I relocated to the West Coast right in the middle of the recession. actually um i worked in new york city for six years and then um moved back to la i'm originally

14:14Rion Willard: from here in los angeles i got you i got you um and and interestingly like you because now you're also an owner's rep um and i feel that this is probably quite a misunderstood role and particularly with particularly with architects could you walk us through like like the distinction between construction manager, owner's rep, and an architect even? And how the three intersect? And what was your journey from construction manager into the owner's rep?

14:46Megan Turner: So, you know, as a general contractor and a project manager for that kind of a firm, you're really just focused on, you know, the set of plans and executing what was delivered to you. Because unless you're a part of a pre-construction period, you just, you get a set of drawings that's either permitted or been approved by the owner, at least what you think has been approved by the owner to then get pricing. And then, you know, if, if they select you, you, you start building it and it's just, it's kind of more black and white. Um, and you know, like I said before, um, I got involved on a few big complex projects, um, in the pre-construction period.

15:23Megan Turner: And that really sparked my interest in owner's representation because we were tasked with trying to solve for, you know, problems that we could foresee coming down the pike because of it being on the coast and a high water table and everything that it I was like okay well we need to make sure that they have you know budget allocated for this because it's very unique to this type of a project and and um I just it it really switched my gears on like how getting something that complex and beautifully designed happens from concept to completion because it's not just a set of plans that the architect whips up, you have to like understand the soil's conditions.

16:03And at least in Los Angeles, every part of town has a different, you know, condition where you're either dealing

16:09Megan Turner: with, you know, hillside or like coastal or whatever it might be. And I just, I was really intrigued by like how all the consultants come together and make the project truly what it is, because there's so many more moving parts and pieces than most people realize.

16:28Rion Willard: When you started kind of working more on the client's rep side, what were you finding were many of their biggest kind of pain points or concerns or worries about the whole construction process in and of itself?

16:44Megan Turner: I think that the big things were trust, you know, not like or like understanding, like not having a roadmap. oftentimes people just think like, okay, well, we're going to hire you and you're going to start tomorrow. And it's like, okay, well, no, like you hired us and now we have to get into contract with, you know, the subcontractors and everything. And it's so kind of guiding with a client that like, yes, you've selected this person, but now there's like an upstart period and like helping them understand that like, okay, you, you know, this is, you said that you wanted a, you know, a 5 ,000 square foot house.

17:24Megan Turner: And after DD, we've gotten to this point where it's just kind of ballooned because, oh, can we make the closet a little bit bigger? And all of a sudden you've got, you know, an 8 ,000 square foot house and they can't afford it. And so I think that for architects, architects are artists, they're creatives. That's the side of the brain that they lead with. And if a client is getting excited about a design, they're just, they're, their ego and their you know their creativity it all just it gets going and they keep keep designing more and more to you know continue to get that reaction and I found that clients all of a sudden are like oh my gosh this is so much like more complex than I expected and now the pricing is coming back higher than than we can afford and you know architects are incredible at understanding the process from the beginning to the end.

18:18Megan Turner: But oftentimes they don't think about, you know, it's not in their responsibility to think about like, you know, the local utility company. And, you know, they're like, oh, there's an engineer that's going to help with that or a dry utility consultant. And so the owner's representative looks at the whole picture from 30 ,000 feet and goes, okay, if you want to build on this property, we need to find out like, a what's we need to get it surveyed we need to meet with a bunch of architects find out if there's any restrictions in this neighborhood you know um it's a what are the zoning requirements and you know those are the kind of things that you know good architects usually think about but oftentimes it's not until they have started drawing and designing and so i've just found that um to ask a creative and someone whose job it is to put together the whole design package for a project to then manage the project on behalf of the homeowner is a lot to ask of you know it's sort of like your your disk profile like most architects disk profile is not like management per se it's It's, you know, they usually hire someone to do operations for them because it's not typically their, like, you know, zone of genius per se.

19:42Rion Willard: It's more the sort of detail or compliance aspects.

19:46Megan Turner: Yeah.

19:47Rion Willard: It's interesting. You know, you've worked on a lot of incredibly complex projects and we've had some discussions in the past. obviously you're one of the one of our BOA clients as well and we've we've we've spoken a lot about some of the collaborations that you've been involved in and some of the extraordinary homes that you've you've worked on are there particular reasons that you start to see of why luxury residential projects can be kind of go left field absolutely you know

20:20Megan Turner: um there's just so many hidden decisions that can make or break a custom home and like homeowners typically are not they're not seasoned in this like if the if someone is successful enough to be able to afford a luxury custom home they're probably not an architect unless they're a star architect and then they're doing it for themselves or a builder you know necessarily because they maybe they're in finance or they're an actor or, you know, just a different, they're very successful in their own right. So understanding the sequencing of decisions and like what's impacting your budget, what's impacting your schedule, what's impacting the complexity of it, unless they have someone guiding them who is an expert in the field, whether it's their architect or an owner's rep, they don't know that those hidden decisions can take something off track before it even gets going.

21:25And I think for me, it's like, we don't just build exceptional homes.

21:30Megan Turner: We help people make exceptional decisions so their homes can actually become a reality. And so the most important part is making sure you have the right team in place, whether Or like if you're a modernist, like find the architect that makes you make the most sense for your design and budget and size of your home. You don't want to hire somebody who's historically only designed, you know, 20 ,000 square foot homes if you're looking to have a 5 ,500 square foot house, you know. So I think that kind of seeing that from that 30 ,000 foot view and being aware for what's coming up around the corner is how you really help, you know, people who are, you know, obviously incredibly successful in their own right because they have the means of doing this, then feel the confidence to take on an endeavor like this.

22:23Megan Turner: Because it's not for the faint of heart.

22:25Rion Willard: Absolutely. working with that kind of caliber of client as well they often have very high expectations and can be notoriously demanding are wanting privacy maybe also used to a certain standard of care um i've often heard like other luxury architects i've i've worked with they'll describe their sort of ultra high net worth clients as you know the competition that the architect has is not necessarily with another architect it's almost like the other luxury experience that this person wants to invest in how do you balance being that advocate while still keeping projects kind of

23:06Megan Turner: realistic it's a good question you know it's um because like you said i've worked on so many different types of projects and you know sometimes like i've worked on luxury retail and so that's a very business per se, as opposed to, but it's a lot of the same subcontractors with some of these really elevated finishes. And I think it's, I always ask people at the very beginning, does it matter if you're a billionaire, you have a budget in mind of some sort for an investment that you're going to make into, you know, your real estate portfolio. And so I always, first things, it's like, you know, there's three legs to school, budget, schedule, and quality.

23:48Megan Turner: And some clients are quality is, you know, of utmost importance, followed by schedule, and then budget. They're less concerned about the budget because they want that ultra luxury. They want the peace of mind that everything that they're selecting and paying for is going to be basically rock solid, whether it's from a security perspective or a quality perspective. And then you might have somebody that's just as affluent and successful who's like, you know what, this is a temporary home that we need to move in quickly. Our focus is, you know, schedule and budget, but the quality can be sort of less than we would normally do because it's a temporary house while we build, you know, the one down the block or whatever it might be.

24:38Megan Turner: And so we've, we've encountered clients at all of those where it just because you're, you're building a luxury home or estate, you may be more focused on, on schedule, then budget or on schedule, then quality. Whereas that might not always be someone's immediate reactions. Sometimes it's an honors rep you're brought in to just get it done. Like it's all about the schedule. Like we need to move in. They've got two months until school starts like figured out uh and so then you just you you find the right team it's like who can who can start right away not not necessarily who has the the best level five you know drywall crew so that the moniche imposter is perfect and um it's really about hearing their needs and then responding accordingly and efficiently with the right plan how do you find uh clients in this

25:36Rion Willard: world? Because this, again, it can be very, it's such a difficult market to break into from the outside. And I'm guessing once you're in that there's a lot of kind of, you know, referrals that happen and word of mouth. But how did you, how did you kind of gain access into that world? And then how do you nurture your network and keep work coming in?

25:58Megan Turner: Yeah. So for me, I, I have always maintained really great relationships with, you know, the homeowners that I have finished projects for throughout my career. Like oftentimes we would go back and, you know, touch something up before they had a party or whatever it might be. And so, like I said, when I decided to make the switch, a longstanding client of mine gave me a call and it was like, Hey, you know, we're actually going to be, um, relocating. And so we're looking at this property and, and, um, and long story short from the next day we met, they put in an offer and, um, I started the project management of their house, you know, that next, basically that next day.

26:42Megan Turner: And, and they're the type where it's, you know, schedule and quality. And so it was just like, okay, let's, let's get the team put together. And so that project led to some really great relationships with various consultants. It was, it was an Uber luxury home and the art collection is just spectacular. And so the different vendors and the, you know, the house or the, the family office, you know, making relationships with those folks and being a resource to them and, you know, continuing on and overseeing the maintenance and management of the house after the people have moved in, we then often get referred to friends or neighbors.

27:30Megan Turner: And so I've been very blessed and that, you know, I've had clients that I've worked for them on multiple homes, their sons, their daughters, you know, neighbors, family, friends, especially like in the Palisades, you know, we've got the fires that happened 18 months ago and, you know, kind of word of mouth of like, hey, you know, Megan can help you put together the team and understand that path to get back home, you know, and what that's going to look like over the next two years. And so primarily word of mouth and just relationships.

28:06Rion Willard: It's interesting what you said, actually, that the kind of post-occupancy maintenance contracts that you might have on a house are actually a really good way of you maintaining a relationship with the client which which would then just keeps you top of mind which then means that there's going to be like a referral stream that can be more activated as a as a result you just get to keep the keep the relationship going well and it's kind of nice

28:30Megan Turner: like i know that a lot of general contractors aren't set up to have like a true maintenance division. And so, you know, I collaborated with a longtime friend, an employee of mine, and was just like, hey, you know, we, this house is completed and they've asked us to continue handling the maintenance. And so we've, you know, put together a full maintenance plan and we work with the subcontractors that, you know, were a part of the project. And, you know, know, the general contractors are kind of happy to have that resource as someone who understands like the project and how it comes from concept to completion, but then also understands the industry well enough to do that ongoing maintenance program and not have to pull their guys off of a site across town because, you know, the HVAC filters need to be changed.

29:23Megan Turner: They're just, it's kind of a good supplement to the whole process because a lot of the teams just don't have that set up. Yeah.

29:34Rion Willard: Interestingly, we're talking about here about the kind of high expectations of those sorts of clients. How much would you say that project success comes from good communication versus actual technical expertise?

29:52Megan Turner: it's definitely both but good communication is is paramount because you know it's like you don't have to have all the technical expertise you just have to be able to say look like this this detail um in order for this you know to be successful it's going to need like a really specific design setup and so we need to find the right team that is willing to do that if you really want this you know component of your house to operate this way because we just you know we get thrown the wildest challenges and it's like how do you make that a reality and oftentimes it's not from the design architect or the stone guy or the mill worker you oftentimes it's just communicating that you know we need to bring in like a technical architect on this who can actually understand that like what the design intent is and then make it a reality um because you know like the uber creative architects oftentimes their details don't really work they don't make like that's not really how it comes together but i like your right you know it's an interesting i like i like the intention i like the intention of it but how do you build that well that that's

31:00Rion Willard: that's really interesting right because you've worked with a lot of different architects you know you've worked with some with some big names you work with some you know very talented people in in your career you've got quite a quite a network um what separates the best firms from the average ones for you?

31:16Megan Turner: I would say the best firms are the ones that have a really good balance of people who truly know how the sausage is made and then are those uber creatives. Because if you just focus on the creativity, you lose track of what a client's true needs are. Of the three, you know, quality schedule budget, where is this client? What type of home are you designing for them? Is this your 30 ,000 square foot, um, make a mansion for, you know, royalty, or is this a, you know, 5 ,500 square foot beautiful home on like a narrow lot in Manhattan beach that has, you know, it's just very different. And I think that the, the firms that have the ability to respond to a client's needs creatively and, um, you know, just logistically, like the actual, um, like engineered concept of it.

32:20I find just they, they're the most successful and the ones

32:25Megan Turner: that truly listen to their clients and can react to the parameters of a project, um, with a specialized approach to each client. I think sometimes the, a lot of the firms I've, I've, um, felt could use growth was because it was like a one size fits all approach. Like it, the, the details are almost like copy and pasted from every project, no matter what it is or where it is. Um, you know, I think that's sort of the deciding.

32:58Rion Willard: Yeah. And then that's, that's interesting, right as well because it's you know it's important to to recognize that that that sort of it's not even we're not even talking about standardization here we're talking about sometimes you've misread what the client's needs and desires are and then you're borrowing very expensive details from another project and then applying it over here on this other project and it was just sort of like okay well that's not relevant right in this circumstance and i think we're seeing a lot

33:26Megan Turner: of that right now because of the fires in Pacific Palisades. And, you know, Pacific Palisades has some of them highest value real estate and views in the world. You know, it's right on the coast, you know, many of the lots of ocean views and the weather's amazing. And you have such a broad mix of people who lost homes from third generation that the house has been passed down to the children and the grandchildren. And it's really just equity. So oftentimes those people were completely uninsured, like underinsured because, you know, the insurance policy was based on when they bought the house for 180 million or$180 ,000, you know, 30 years ago.

34:03Megan Turner: And now it's worth four and a half. Um, and I feel like architects just assume, okay, it's those custom home of Pacific Palisades. They're not thinking these people literally walked away with only the shirt off their back. Like they, they had to buy a toothbrush because they were at work when this happened. And, um, I think that oftentimes architects just assume if someone is coming to them in, in the luxury market or the high-end custom home market that, that, um, like budget isn't of that much importance. And I think that very few architects really push clients for their budget and to understand it and then challenge themselves to then design in accordance with it.

34:52Megan Turner: So like a lot of these folks who have a very set budget because that's what the insurance payout was and maybe some SBA loans, there's no more. Oftentimes if you're working for just like a high net worth individual on a custom home that's not in response to a natural disaster, you know, there's, okay, here's this contingency. This is our furniture budget. This is this is such a different thing. I think most of the architects that I've worked with during this experience have really had a pretty sharp learning curve in terms of going like, oh, okay. Like they're not, they've never done this before.

35:32Megan Turner: You know, they don't, they don't know what it means to build a custom home. And, um, they think that like a speculative style home that's new is custom. And when that's more, you know, that's, there's a preset group of plans. So to that answer, I, you know, it's, I think it's just that differentiator of like truly knowing why your client is, is interviewing you in the first place. What is the basis of the project? And sometimes I think that gets missed.

36:02Rion Willard: I think it's interesting what you're saying, the, you know, pushing, pushing a client for their budget as well. And you as an architect or anybody on the construction team on the design team construction team um to really understand and make it their business and priority to understand the financial situation of any client because it's easy as well to to get seduced by the idea that there's an unlimited bucket of budget and that's not necessarily good for anybody um the wealthiest people like you say that yeah the certain projects They're going to invest unlimited amounts of money into other projects.

36:42Rion Willard: They're going to be much more discerning about where their cash goes to. And then this situation that you're describing with the Palisades, really interesting because obviously there are kind of insurance claims that are going through that are very well kind of got boundaries around them. And so understanding what those limitations are and then making sure that your design and construction process is actually kind of very well catered to that. becomes quite quite crucial right this is kind of like I mean knock on wood like a once in a

37:12Megan Turner: generation type of thing so you know like I don't I don't want to like pick on architects or anything but I think that they sort of came into this going like okay I'm gonna design you a custom home because you want a new home and it's not it's like oh yeah we're sorry you lost everything in the fire but like this is how our process works and the the process I think I think that my biggest take away from being involved from like the early stages is like architects that I find that are the most successful truly want to know oftentimes they have a sheet they call the sheet and it's like the questionnaire they they ask the clients what makes them tick what are their priorities is this a family home is this a bachelor pad is this a second home how is it going to be used And then you start ranking the needs.

38:02Megan Turner: And that exercise then gets transitioned to the general contractor and they're more able to serve the client. And then, you know, the owner's rep is responsible for making sure that everyone is cohesively sticking to those goals because, you know, every client has a different priority and oftentimes the teams that aren't quite paying attention to it. So an owner's rep really, our job is to just keep everybody on track and remind everyone of, you know, what the priorities are. And, you know, the client as well. Like, hey, you know, this invoice came in. We were really trying to push your schedule for completion.

38:43Like, you know, paying this quickly is going to help the subs keep it staffed.

38:50Megan Turner: And just, you know, not just advocating for the client, but advocating for the client's project. And sometimes they're their own worst enemy because they don't realize that they're the catalyst of everything, you know, because if they're late on a payment because they're on vacation and subs don't show up, they're not even aware that they could be having that trickle down effect. So like really just making sure that everyone on the team is doing what they need to do is critical.

39:21Rion Willard: all it's interesting that the you know when i talk to a lot of architects um in sometimes in the luxury residential there can be this kind of conflict between the owner's rep and the architect and a lot of architects kind of feel oh you know what we do we do a lot of that anyway right um i that a lot and but it's but it's interesting because i don't know i know the good architects can do it right and but there but there is definitely my experience with a lot of firms is that the service element of architecture particularly at this level is often missing and that comment i made earlier about you know in many cases your competitor is not necessarily another architect it's another luxury experience it's the safari in kenya it's the exactly it's the four seasons hotel exactly so this this kind of clientele is used to a certain kind of hospitality exceptional experience which is why the owner's rep like has exists because it's kind of like catering to all of that it's not just the production of the building at the end of it

40:37Megan Turner: I think if someone goes to a luxury hotel or like spends a week with friends on a yacht or something, the level of service that you receive from the hospitality team, whether it's at the Four Seasons or on a luxury vacation like that, you start to expect it. And oftentimes when you're working with a general contractor, even if the owner of the firm and the project manager are the most white glove, top tier, you know, people with like the highest integrity and sophistication, like you're going to have people that are working on the job that are just unskilled labor. They're making sure the job is clean and room swept.

41:19Megan Turner: And it's just as important to treat those people the same way. But also, they're the ones that are helping keep it clean and creating that level of experience. And I think that oftentimes that's kind of the differentiator is like, you know, when the clients show up, like, the site should be safe. It should be clean. Everyone should be respectful. You know, no loud music, no trash. Like, creating that environment where it's like, hey, the client's going to be here in 30 minutes. I just want to give everyone a heads up. Because I always get to meetings early as the, you know, owner's rep because I just want to make sure, hey, there's a trip hazard out.

41:58Megan Turner: We don't want anyone to follow. There's going to be five people showing up. You know, just kind of being those eyes and ears to set the site team up for success. And I think that to me, it's just as important as the owner's rep to advocate for the rest of the team they've hired because my goal is to get their project done to their expectation. And the only way of doing that is making sure that all gears are working together. And so for me, I feel like it's just so much more about how the pieces come together and the collaboration. Like, hey, architect, I really need you to jump on this right now so that this part of the project can keep moving on.

42:36Megan Turner: Let's table what we requested last week until next week because this is the priority, you know, schedule-wise or whatever. And I guess as well in this world that a lot of these types of clients, they just want to have one point of contact.

42:51Rion Willard: so yeah and again that's another really interesting um part of the experience is the kind of privacy and the protection and the the you know not having anybody have to deal with a whole load of chaos and communication i mean most of our clients you know their projects are in entities because of the privacy aspect of it um and you know they don't want to end up on some of these

43:17Megan Turner: you know, real estate blocks and stuff that says who's living there and what the property was sold for. And oftentimes these people that are building these luxury homes in Los Angeles, it might be a second home. They, or they might travel for business and they don't, they want someone to be their eyes and ears, like you said, to be, you know, the one point of contact because they can't attend all the meetings. It's, again, it's not their zone of genius they're there to make decisions and keep the project going and pay for it and but having someone who understands the process like give them the guidance and um you know experiences is i think very valuable to a lot of a lot of our clientele because it's just um again it's not it's not their first place to be in in the world of owners reps like where do owner reps

44:15Rion Willard: normally come from they normally come from construction management or do they come from

44:18Megan Turner: other industries oh my gosh i think it comes from like construction and also like a lot of architects and engineers that are more kind of business minded like maybe they're not the typically it's people who are more kind of that you know logistics mind and more financially minded and so um you know we've had the conversation typically architects aren't the most um sophisticated financial people um and and so i think that oftentimes it's from construction management um or like the engineering or more practical architect you know um constructability architect type types very very um interesting as well that kind of perspective from being the

45:12Rion Willard: owner's rep onto the rest of the rest of the construction team how have you found being an owner's rep differs from being a construction manager and do you still provide both services

45:22Megan Turner: to the same client in a project um sometimes so actually right now i um i started as the owner's rep and then um the like as we got going the project they they realized that i'm still a licensed and insured, you know, general contractor. And the process was moving along smoothly. And they're like, well, would you consider building this for us? We already know you. You have the relationship with subcontractors. And so for very specific clients, we will carry on both roles. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. Like I have a client who I built for here in Los Angeles that It has a home in Nashville and I'm not going to build in Nashville for, I don't have, you know, the team there, but I am working with a really great builder to help, you know, to make that dream a reality for them.

46:18Megan Turner: But with the same approach I brought to it when we did it, did their home in Los Angeles. And so I think that it just depends on the type of project, the client, and again, the needs. and if it's the right fit. You know, sometimes you're an owner's rep for somebody and you're like, you know what? Like, I think this is a better spot to be in because blurring those lines, they might not be the right personality type for it. Talking about systems and leadership,

46:51Rion Willard: you've built a reputation around accountability, what systems create accountability and kind of doing it without becoming overly bureaucratic. what's been let's say some of your hardest leadership lessons that you've learned

47:06Megan Turner: in terms of accountability um i think that i just assumed early on that everyone would care as much as i do um because when i was when i worked for someone else I cared so much that, I mean, for like at the, at a certain point for a very long time, I was the, you know, the license holder for this firm I worked for. And, um, I cared as if my name was on the door, um, because it's just how I'm wired. And so I think that one of the challenges is like most employees don't, you know, they're, they're there to get a job done and they don't realize, you know, what keeps a business owner up at night and, you know, the things that you, you worry about.

47:55Megan Turner: Um, so I think for me, it was like kind of managing that and just making sure that I, um, am following up on like, okay, what's the status of this? Like, this is on the Monday board. Like, can we go through, um, and make sure that everything that was on, you know, this week's list is getting chipped off. Like, am I the bottleneck? Really just improving my communication because I think early on, I really just assumed everyone would get their stuff done. And we all need reminders at times, you know, we all forget stuff. And so I think that for me, it was really just kind of learning how to, you know, manage the never ending list of things that you have to keep tabs on, you know, in this industry.

48:43Rion Willard: When your projects are finished, let's imagine like 10 years later down the line, What is it that you hope that your clients remember most, not necessarily about the house itself, but more the experience of creating it?

48:57Megan Turner: That it was fun, that it was like rewarding. And that when they come home, they're like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm so glad we took on that challenge and did it because this is home. And I've have so many clients who have invited my husband and I over for dinner or they'll get the whole team. Like we had a client just sell a house and my old boss, the architect, the landscape architect, the interior designer, the clients, we were all invited over to kind of have one last champagne toast to this exquisite home. And it was just fun because that team was just the most special team. And, you know, that client still recommends me to people and vice versa.

49:38Megan Turner: And, um, and it, it's just, to me that tears to like, Hey, you guys are downsizing. You're selling this home and you got way over asking price because you did it right. Like, that's what you want. You know, it's like these people become like such an intimate part of your life. I always joke, like when you're literally overseeing someone's like, you know, underwear drawer where they're going to put their toothbrush, you know? And it's like you get to know them pretty well. And so to then be a part of those celebrations is pretty special.

50:14Rion Willard: Amazing. Brilliant. That's a perfect place to conclude the conversation there, Megan. Thank you so much. I went so fast.

50:20Megan Turner: Thank you.

50:21Rion Willard: Really amazing to get a glimpse of your perspective there from the client rep and construction manager side. We're always fans as well of hearing what it's like to work with architects and what makes good relationships. and I appreciate your perspective there. So thank you very much.

50:37Megan Turner: Absolutely. Thank you. I'm so glad to have been able to join you and it's been so amazing being a part of Business of Architecture that to finally get to do the podcast. It's been pretty cool.

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54:14Rion Willard: Let's be real, free advice is a great appetizer, but the main course, The thing that changes everything is advice that's tailored and personalized to you. That's when momentum starts. So if you're ready to take action, go to smartpracticemethod.com to discover the proven, simple, and easy to implement smart practice method that is revolutionizing firm management for owners and teams. Hey, Ryan Willard here, and I want to thank you for joining us today and remind you that the views expressed on the show by our guests do not represent those of the host. We make no representation, promise, guarantee, pledge, warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you do your best work and be handsily paid for it.

54:52Rion Willard: Carpe diem.