The Thursday Show: Can you get sued for posting a project on Instagram? Plus: The new tariff era is here

25:33What I'm just hopeful for is that there'll be some kind of standardized contract that gets used in the design industry that, you know, lets designers share the images in a way that's relatively free, that allows them to get exposure for their work, but gets photographers compensated in a way that's sort of reasonable. Because I think part of the problem is that I don't get the sense that there is like one contract that every photographer has and every designer understands. I think it's a very bespoke situation, which has its advantages, but leads to a lot of misunderstanding. So I'm hopeful that over time, this will sort of stabilize into a situation where everyone can be happy.

26:07Because right now, you're sort of starting to see these tensions turn into cease and desist letters. And I'm hopeful that that's a sign of a time of transition, not a sign of how it'll be like forever. I'm with you. I hope that we can create whatever the boundaries and the guidelines are and get back to everybody sharing these images in a way that everyone is profiting from them. But I'm sorry that it's all gotten so complicated. In the meantime, we're going to move on to a feel-good story, which is going to make us feel so much better, Fred. Another recent article from Haley Chouinard focused on a North Carolina trade program developed in tandem with local furniture manufacturers who hope to build a pipeline of upholstery professionals.

26:54Something the furniture industry desperately needs is more people becoming upholsterers. Yeah, it's funny. Like if you spend any time, you know, in a, you know, upholstery, either factory or workshop in North Carolina, you'll notice this weird thing where it's like everybody is either like 60 or 20. You know, there really was this generation of workers who, you know, either, you know, they were lost their jobs during the big offshoring of the 80s and 90s, or they just never got into it because like their parents told them, hey, don't become a furniture manufacturer. that's all going to China, instead become a lawyer or, you know, a mid-level manager at a car rental company or whatever it is, like there's something more reliable than being an upholsterer.

27:35And, you know, what that has led to is a labor shortage for all of the, you know, considerable domestic manufacturing there still is, especially for upholstery. And what, you know, Haley's piece, a very nice, good, feel-good piece, talked about is this local program that's trying to get more young people, you know, into this line of work, because certainly these companies actually do need skilled workers. So it's a great piece on that level. But it kind of brought up this other thing for me, which is, I wonder if on some level, this problem may kind of solve itself. And the culprit is, you guessed it, Dennis, AI.

28:07What do you think? This is the solution for all the jobs that AI is coming after. I'm inclined to agree. And I'm somewhat reassured, both in reading this piece and in having conversations about this. It's interesting because I feel as though we talked about this issue a great deal, Fred, during COVID, when all the factories were stretched to capacity and there were 48-week lead times for sofas, and everybody was desperate to find more workers. And that all sort of died down. But the problem hasn't gone away. And interestingly, all of the tariff talk and bringing more manufacturing back to the U.S., this is actually manufacturing that is likely to expand in the U.S., is upholstery.

29:01And we know a lot of big companies are looking for more domestic upholsterers. So when we hear that AI looks like it might be coming for some white collar jobs and maybe some media jobs, Fred. I hate to say that. No, never. We're safe, Dennis. But I do feel like everything that we hear is that if you have a skill that involves working with your hands, then there might be hope for you. Yeah. I mean, I don't know exactly what to make of it, but you do have these sweeping proclamations coming out of Silicon Valley where people are just saying that AI is going to replace like all lawyers and doctors by 2028.

29:44And, you know, if you work with a computer at all, your job is completely vulnerable. And, you know, I don't know how real any of that is candidly, but I do think that a lot of young people who are high school age right now are thinking like, well, do I want to go into a profession that's going to be obsolete in three years? Or do I want to go into something with my hands, which I know is relatively safe? You know, it's it takes a takes a pretty sophisticated robot to do eight-way hand-tied springs. So I think that there is going to be a natural momentum towards trade schools and towards working with your hands.

30:14I think a lot of people want to make that happen. There's been a lot of government investment in it. And I think just more and more you hear the steady drumbeat of the person who could have gone to Yale but went to start a local company because maybe it's better for their mental health. Maybe it's what they really want to do. but I also think in some ways it weirdly is like a safer job. So maybe, you know, AI is going to have all kinds of weird effects, but it's possible that it'll cause more people to go into this, you know, into this niche and, you know, people who make furniture in the US will benefit from that.

30:45And as you said, like, look, I don't think we're going to see a mass return of furniture manufacturing to the US for all the reasons we've talked about for the past year, but like, like marginally, you're going to see it go up, especially if these tariffs stick for the long term. So I don't think now is a bad time to, you know, get rid of your podcasting rig and get on down to North Carolina and, you know, start learning how to sew because I think there's opportunity there. I'm heading down to Hickory Chair right after we wrap up this podcast. I want to get it. Yeah, I want to get into the training program.

31:16No, I mean, listen, when I talk to the high point people, what they tell me is that truthfully, case goods probably not coming back in a meaningful way, but plenty of opportunity in upholstery. We do so much custom upholstery in this country that I do think there's an opportunity there. And I hope that a lot of these manufacturing jobs will be made to sound more appealing. And I hope that we'll talk more about apprenticeship programs and a life of continuing learning in an operation like this, because I think it can be quite a nice life for people. And I think we've certainly seen that in North Carolina and in California, where a huge production in custom upholstery comes from.

32:04So, I mean, I think it can be a very nice skill to have. And again, I think it's going to be a lot of people looking for work in the not too distant future. So hopefully it'll all come down to the furniture industry. My hopes as well. Although I think it's too late for me. I'm too much of a klutz. Forever, forever a podcaster. I'm just me and the robots. All right. That's it for the news. But there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including the latest product launches and Sean Lowe's advice on payment schedules. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

32:43We're taking a quick break to remind you about Ernesta. Looking to transform your client's space? Try Ernesta's custom-sized rugs, made to fit their unique measurements right down to the very inch. Allow them to sink their feet into the softest wools or live carefree with a durable, easy-to-clean, family-friendly rug, all ready to be delivered in as little as two to four weeks. Learn more about Ernesta's trade program at ernesta.com slash boh. That's ernesta.com slash boh.

33:22And we're back. I'm joined now by Bo and Tim Stump, two of the three family members that make up Stump and Company. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me. Happy to be here. Thanks for having us, Dennis. Great to have you back. It's been far too long. I feel like we talk about you a great deal on the show, so I feel like you've been on, but really, it's been a while. So Bo, let's remind people what Stump and Company, the mergers and acquisition advisory firm, is all about. Absolutely happy to do it. Thanks for having us, Dennis. We work with the owners of furniture businesses and help them think about their future and potential sales of their companies.

34:02So we work all across home furnishings, commercial. If it's got furniture in it, we are involved. Tim, you and I bumped into each other in Vegas in the hallways of the Vegas market, chatted for a little bit. I know you were also at the Atlanta Casual Show. You wrote in your recent note about some of your takeaways from market. What was your sense of the past few markets you've been at? Well, attendance has been down. We know that. I think some of it was just the heat of the summer. But I think also the trepidation of tariffs and the uncertainty has caused people to just be a bit pencils down and stay at their shop and try to save some money.

34:50And I think the general consensus is let's cut these deals, let's get back to work, and let's get on with our business without all this noise. Do you get the sense that we have now cut some of these deals and we're seeing a little bit more clearly what these tariffs are looking like? Or is the market still perceiving that some of this is apt to still change and evolve? I think it's still a 50-50 toss ball. There's some clarity with Vietnam, Indonesia, and so forth. China, we still don't know. We got a curveball on India this past week with some foreign policy impact on the Russian oil. So, yes, there is a general sense that let's get on with it.

35:42And we're also seeing that the bigger, stronger companies are sensing it's time to get on with it, maybe make a deal or two before the market really gets going and be prepared for the uptick when it comes. And we're all hoping and thinking it will come. Yeah, I would just say on the tariff front, I think notably on the Vietnam side, some other Southeast Asian sides, I do think that there is at least some clarity coming in to our U.S. businesses and importers. And they are now passing along these tariff impacts via price increases. And we are hearing about that moving forward with these businesses.

36:23So while for months there was more speculation and a wait and see, that is now happening. Certainly, I think that will happen more and more concretely as the final deals are announced from these other countries. And your guess is as good as mine on when exactly those dates will be. But certainly for Vietnam, which is the big one, it does seem like we're kind of near the finish line. There was a perception that some of these big Asian companies were looking to expand their presence in the US and that maybe they were going to be some of the acquirers in your various markets that you're involved with.

37:04Is that still very much what you're thinking and what you're hearing? Yes, absolutely. I think almost immediately from when the new trade approach was announced, there's been at least the speculation of that. The reality is aligned. There's a lot of interest from overseas buyers to acquire here domestically. Conversations are active and ongoing, and we do expect there to be some activity there. Again, there are two issues here. One, there are a lot of Chinese that want to leave China with their money and their families. And so there is an expectation that we will see them show up, buy companies, have a company their children can run, and they've exited China.

37:53The question mark becomes, will China let them out with their money? So there are a series of guideposts that these companies and the individuals have to go through to get their money out. And we're dealing with that every day. Is it your sense, and you were just saying earlier that more and more companies, to the extent that they're feeling in a position to make acquisitions, are looking to do so because there is perhaps a growing perception that the market might be turning. I keep looking for signs of green shoots. Sometimes I see the home builders coming in a little stronger. I see Wayfair actually turned to profit.

38:39Our house looks like they had a better quarter. I keep trying to hang on any of these things. But what's your sense of whether people are feeling that things are meaningfully turning? Well, our slogan last year, penned by one of our senior executives in the industry, was survive to 25, then thrive. Yes. And we have referred to that often. And so we just got a response to that from another senior executive who said, more businesses go to heaven in 27. Wow. Okay. Okay, that's a little bit, but in a good way, in that they're being acquired or that they're just going away sadly? I think we're at a real fork in the road.

39:28The real strong companies are going to giddy up and go here. Okay. We think the second half of this year and into 26, but there are a lot of weak companies that really are going to go to heaven and go away. Yeah. And that's just the survival of the fittest theory, and we're seeing it play out right now. Okay. Well, at least I like the thought of all of these companies that can't quite make it going to heaven, Tim. That makes me feel a little bit better about the outcome. But it's interesting because, and I'm not joking, that, of course, so many people, Tim, picked up on that, survived to 25 and thrive, And then 25 arrived and they didn't feel like this was thriving in any way.

40:15And they felt quite betrayed and misled, frankly, and that we had somehow promised them a brighter year in 25. And I feel guilty and somewhat responsible for parroting what you had shared. But now everyone is thinking, OK, wait a minute. Suddenly, we're starting to see that perhaps interest rates really are going to come down. Sadly, it meant a lighter than expected employment number coming out to change everyone's perception. But it does look like rates are now being priced in in a meaningful way to come down. Maybe it's too little too late. Does that change people's perception or make people feel a little bit better?

40:59Yeah, I think all great points, Dennis. And, you know, to start the year, certainly we were all quite optimistic and hanging to that motto. And, you know, even at the January Vegas market, you know, there was a lot of, you know, optimism and, you know, wait and see. And, you know, of course, the first half of this year has really been dominated by the trade policy conversation. and I think has put a fall, certainly to the first half, as far as getting back to a place of growth. We do think the second half should be better. There's some mixed data, I'd say to the positive, that things are potentially improving to some degree.

41:37The big one is rates, like you said, and certainly seems like as of today, knock on wood, these things seem to change, but certainly seems like we're headed towards some cuts as soon as next month. And you would think several more from there. So it's hard to say 2026 is the new 25, but there certainly is some reason to think that the next year should be better, that the back half of this year should be better than the first half. And certainly what we're hearing from many clients, the big thing's just navigating through this trade uncertainty, which we've all been dealing with for the last four to six months.

42:18You did recently have a deal. A transaction was made at a huge showroom in Houston, Ladco, which, I mean, for people that aren't familiar, another one going into the hands of private equity, which we can talk about as well. But tell us about that. Yeah, I think the way you described it, Dennis, huge is apt. It's a 100 ,000 square foot facility. Some of that is warehousing and storage, but the showroom itself is just vast and beautiful. And it's all one independently owned business that's exhibiting dozens to over 100 different brands all in one place. And it's quite something to see. It's a real stalwart of the Houston design community.

43:03The buyer was, broadly speaking, private equity. Broadly speaking, I like how you put that. But great people and a small group from Dallas and a lot of connectivity to that kind of higher end luxury real estate world and brought a lot of kind of complementary skill sets and relationships. So we're thrilled for everybody involved. It's one of those kind of win-win outcomes that you hope for. Well, and what should we take away from what was appealing to this private equity firm about making this acquisition? Was it the Houston market? Was it that it was a it's a to the trade space. So, I mean, that was that was interesting as well.

43:43But what should we read into that? Yeah, I think I think simply put would be that designer business. You know, Tim and I, our partner, Stuart, we work with many companies across many channels and home furnishings and the folks that are successfully engaging and selling designers over and over again on a repeat business have such a leg up on most. I mean, it's just it's a great channel. It's still growing. There's more designers every year and more homeowners availing themselves of designers every year. And this company is kind of a textbook example of someone that had figured out how to do that with success over a long period of time.

44:20A couple of things that I thought stood out. One, the luxury world is still performing at a high level. And the rich people are going to spend and not just on their first house, but on their second and their third house. and they have their friends over and the friends see how nicely it's adorned and they say, can you come do my house? And so we're seeing that very, very clearly. To leverage Bo's point on the design community, there are over 100 ,000 designers, decorators in the U.S. It's growing at a nice clip as retailers are shutting down. So, and 40 % of those are for people or less, which means they're small businesses.

45:09They don't have the accounting. They don't have the warehouse. They don't have many of the business functions. And so, a LADCO can perform those functions and make the designer's life easier. And the people that bought this, it's really not a PE fund. It's more like a family office. and I think that's a good distinction that they didn't buy it to flip it in two years. They bought it to build it and grow it. Well, that's interesting, the point you make about the 100 ,000 designers too, because we often are having a debate about what the market perceives is the number for how many designers there are.

45:48So I like the 100 ,000 number. That sounds good. That sounds healthy. I wonder if, is there the perception that more people want to make deals like this? And are we seeing interesting things going on in the trade world? It's interesting to see Vornado come out and say, oh, we're going to put the A &D building up for sale. We might put the merchandise mart up for sale. I mean, those are some very meaningful transactions. And I wonder what that says at this moment in time. Well, I think it goes back to the comment about markets, and markets are changing everywhere. We have this tension of, is it Vegas?

46:31Is it High Point? And we also have Dallas, and we also have Atlanta, and how many markets do we need? The commercial world's got that with the merchandise mark in Chicago versus now the design days in Fulton Market. Hospitality has this issue with, do you go to New York for BDNY, or do you go to Vegas? How many touches do you really need? How much money can you really spend on exhibitions? So listen, change is upon us. And the Merchandise Mart has been a challenging building for a lot of people for a lot of years. So who knows where it's going? I don't know. But back to your point on high-end designers, at Vegas, you clearly saw again, Vanguard was there, Century Rock House Brands was there, TA was there, Hooker was there, all on those bottom one, two floors, Dovetail, Classic Home, Four Hands, all catering to the designer.

47:36So there is energy in the Vegas market in those lower levels servicing the design world. Yeah, no, that was very clear. It seems as if the combination of designers playing a bigger role, I can't tell how much the growth of online is really impacting our market and how people are perceiving that. It was interesting to see this relatively smaller deal, but with Cherish and ATG for, we're told,$85 million for that. I don't know if that tells us anything about the role that online is playing in our industry or tells us anything else interesting about the M &A activity. Yeah, I think on the online side, Dennis, it's an interesting point.

48:26And there have been some transactions there and we're seeing an uptick in conversations, at least with clients and interested investors in that space. I think there was such a challenge there for the first few years of our interest rate inflation world. And e-commerce largely took it on the chin. You can kind of look at the Wayfair stock performance, unfortunately, over those few years. But like you said earlier in the show, they had a nice earnings report. last week. There's some other privately held e-commerce businesses that are starting to return to profitability. I think there's a sense that there might've been a bottoming out on the demand side, maybe last year there and brought back to a greener future.

49:14And I think it makes sense that there'd be some acquisition activity, particularly from bigger strategics that want to maybe consolidate some of these businesses and have a potential to make an even nicer margin and bottom line. And we expect that to continue to happen on the online side, quite frankly. It's fascinating to watch the reverse engineering of these online businesses. I was in New York last week and I wanted to swing by a few of my favorite DTC brands to see the products because they all have showrooms now. It's kind of surreal. All started as these great online businesses and now moving moving into the store yeah well the the omni-channel approach that's the term yeah is being played out and warby parker seems to be the poster child for how to do it correctly and our furniture friends are doing it we we've seen lazy boy with joy bird that was a dtc brand and now they have stores i think they're 10 or 12 stores and they're They're saying there's more coming.

50:23And then if you saw in Vegas, they announced Joybird will now be a wholesale brand and Joybird will be kiosks inside the Lazy Boy home stores. So once you have a brand and can establish it, you try to go get the customer wherever you can. I wonder getting back to the importance of these designers, I mean, thinking about the companies that are dealing with all the tariff challenges right now, is it your sense that companies have been trying to absorb as much as they can of the tariffs and not continue to increase prices? We keep looking in the CPI and PPI numbers for signs, meaningful signs that the tariff inflation is hitting us.

51:10We haven't quite seen it yet. Is it your sense that that's because so many companies are absorbing it at this point? Or what do you hear from the companies you talk to? We're hearing that the vendors are going to take a big chunk of it themselves. They want the business. They want to keep their factories going. The customers will absorb some. And I think margins will skinny a bit with the intermediary, our furniture companies here. There's also shifting away from the higher tariff countries to the lower tariff countries. So we're seeing certainly China to Vietnam has been ongoing since the 2018 tariff.

51:52I think a big one to keep our eye on is India, though. A lot of people were shifting out of China to India, and now we've got this second wave of tariffs on India, which could be very detrimental. And then now we have this proposed bigger tariff on Europe, which could be very detrimental to Europe that's already struggling. I mean, their economy is very difficult right now. Yeah, no, it's interesting that you say that because I spoke to several CEOs who were particularly concerned about India. And we've been surprised about a lot of this. But India, and again, this recent announcement about India is of great concern.

52:35And the Business of Home podcast is sponsored by a number of big rug companies. So naturally, I take this quite personally myself. But it is where a lot of product for a lot of these companies is coming from. And again, everybody thought they had made whatever moves they needed to make regarding China and now suddenly find themselves having to – they can't even rethink. It's not as if they can make some meaningful change. So I don't even know how these companies are going to navigate it. It's tough. And you mentioned earlier the steel case acquisition by H &I. A lot of the Asian furniture is going into that commercial sector, both from Asia and Europe, by the way.

53:21And so that side of the house is really going to struggle with it. And I think that's one of the reasons acquisitions will play a role. rationalize costs, cut costs, because we know their tariff pressures. And if H &I can buy Steelcase and cut$125 million of overhead, which was the announced number, then that will help them better deal with the tariffs and whatever other issues are out there. So speaking of that acquisition, I wonder what both the price and the cost cutting, to your point that they announced along with it. I wonder what that tells us about the contract side of the market and how we're thinking about return to office and how that whole side of the business is looking and feeling.

54:14And does that seem like a low number for Steelcase? Does it sort of tell us a little bit about maybe some of the struggles that Steelcase has endured? Ward, what's your sense? Certainly some shock seeing that headline come out, right? I mean, it's reminiscent of when Herman Miller acquired Knoll several years ago. Frankly, I mean, pretty big number, all things considered. I mean, big premium, where they were standing as of the day that deal was announced. You could look at the reaction of both relative companies' share prices. Certainly, Steelcase popped, understandably, and H &Is went down a fair bit.

54:51So I mean, I think the market does speak and did speak there. And I think it was probably the right deal at the right time for both sides would be my two cents on that. Yeah, I think the real question becomes what happens with the dealers? We saw the disruption that Miller & Knoll had having two dealers in every city and how do you rationalize that? And I don't think the answer is over or clear. So everybody's wondering, can H &I do this in a better fashion, smoother fashion? And yes, they did with Kimball. And as we know, H &I's tagline is RCI, rapid continuous improvement. And so we do expect for them to make wholesale changes and improve the steel case and leverage the many positive things.

55:47So I think it's a success. I think we all should take a look at what's going on in the commercial side and see how that affects the residential side. The big guys now, H &I Steelcase is now almost$6 billion in revenue. H &I, excuse me, Miller-Knowles, four-ish plus million, Hayworth's three-ish billion, has great consolidation in that much smaller industry. That's a$15 billion industry versus home furnishings, wholesales, maybe$40 billion. But we have Ashley at$7 or$8 billion, and then we dropped to Lazy Boy at$2, And then we dropped to Ethan Allen at, you know, seven, eight hundred million. So we still have a lot of small players.

56:40We're still a fragmented industry on the residential side. Are we going to see more consolidation on the residential side? And I think the answer is yes. Any upcoming deals you want to tell us about, Tim, along those lines? Anything you? I've got a list right here. As a matter of fact, let me. Well, I mean, all joking aside, I definitely heard from several people who after the after the steel case deal was announced said, oh, this is this is just the first of many to come and suggested that we might be busy this fall with with some announcements. So, I mean, it does sound it was there a starting gun that went off somehow that I that I missed or was there some signal that that everybody got to sort of let this happen?

57:26Because this is honestly what a lot of people thought bringing this new administration into the White House would would mean that there would be all of these deals and there there would be more IPOs and more mergers. And then it and then it didn't happen right away. Is it is the feeling that, oh, first we needed to get through tariffs and then we could get to the the mergers or what what what's your sense? What I would say is deals that you're seeing announced this summer, many of those discussions began last year, probably around election time. And not just deals that have been announced, deals that are in the works.

58:00And I think, you know, those that first half of this year was was challenging between rates and tariffs and just general trade uncertainty. And I think we have reached that point where there is confidence on the buy side that, you know, yes, perhaps the worst is behind us. You know, perhaps, yes, you know, rates are going to come down and better times are ahead. And, you know, yes, there's attractive acquisition targets that that we've been exploring and talking to. And now's the right time. So I think the foundations for these things are always laid long ago, and a lot of that work is certainly always being done.

58:37And I think these things are just now coming to fruition as investors are kind of reaching that green button, green light to pull the trigger. We talked earlier, just in wrapping all of this up, and I'm thinking about our designer audience, it sounds as if a lot of the message that we're getting is, listen, the high end of the market, the designer -driven side of the market is the more prosperous side. It sounds like designers should be anticipating some higher prices, perhaps, at a high point market and coming into the fall, not to be surprised, right, by some companies finally just having to mark up and adjust to everything that's been going on.

59:20I wonder, I mean, it sounds like the designers have a lot of leverage in this equation. I wonder, I mean, is there something designers should be doing to take advantage of that? Should they be grouping together and demanding some better pricing? Or, I mean, how can designers take advantage of the fact that it seems the market needs them desperately these days and they are in the driver's seat? How can all 100 ,000 of them get together and somehow impact their future in some meaningful way? I think it's challenging for that individual designer to exert too much pressure, right? To Tim's point, most are sole proprietor or small shops that are working on their handful of projects.

1:00:06Certainly at scale, though, it is an absolutely massive growing channel at a very nice margin to the manufacturers and brands that are servicing them. And to the extent folks can consolidate that spend in any real scaled way, there's absolutely purchasing power. There's some really novel concepts out there that are attempting to do this. There's some online almost aggregators of sorts. They're trying to enroll hundreds, thousands of designers into their platform so that they can aggregate that spend and then pass along some savings to the designer. But I think certainly at scale, it's a fascinating question.

1:00:49Who can best crack that, I think, stands to gain quite a bit. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for making the time. It's always a pleasure to hear your perspectives. One more thing, Tim. Yes. I have our tagline for 26. Excellent. I'm excited. Lay it on us. We'll have our kicks in 26. I like it. Okay, so a hopeful note. Kicks in 26, and then some of the businesses are going to heaven in 27. But, right. Okay. Well, we've got a few good years ahead, it sounds like. Thank you both. Thank you so much. Enjoyed being with you. Yeah, thanks, Dennis. Take care.

1:01:33And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Hey, Fred, what caught your eye? Julie Vodnal caught my eye. And as I say that, I realize I've never said Julie's last name out loud. So I hope it is Julie Vodnal or Vodnal. But she's a great editor in the design world who's worked all over the place and worked at Food 52. We didn't even talk about the drama at Food 52. That's her next week. But I just saw on Instagram that she was appointed digital director of Architectural Digest.

1:02:03So I'm sure we will see more of her handiwork soon. So congratulations to Julie on that one. And she's great. and I'm sure that A.D. will be lucky to have her. Did you see that too, Dennis? I did. I was in touch with Julie just recently and she mentioned that she was up for this position. I'm thrilled to see that she got it. And she used to work for one of our sister brands at Domino. So I feel like she's forever part of the family, Fred. And so I'm excited for her. Good luck in her new position. What caught your eye this week, Dennis? A couple things caught my eye, Fred. One is, sounds like there's another home retail stock that's going to be coming public.

1:02:39Sadly, Fred, it's not the house news yet that you're hoping for. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. But it is very much related to the perhaps better news coming out of the home industry. In fact, our Warren Schulberg wrote back in May that Bob's Discount Furniture, a name we don't talk about too often on the show, but Bob's Discount Furniture, they were thinking it's owned by Bain Capital. And Bain is thinking that, you know what, Things are looking better in the furniture world and in the market itself. So they're thinking, let's take that company public. And listen, it's going to be perhaps a billion-dollar company.

1:03:14So it's nothing to sneeze at. But that might happen before the end of the year. So another public company in the home space. Is the ticker going to be Bob's? B-O-B-S. I hope so. We'll see if that one is taken. But we'll watch for that. But the other big news that came out, and there's potentially multiple pieces of news from this, but but Bernardo, the big the big real estate trust company, which owns some big design centers around the country, has announced that at least one of them has gone up for sale. And that's the A &D building here in New York, which is home to B &B Italia and Holly Hunt on the ground floor.

1:03:57But upstairs, there's quite a few companies that have quite sizable showrooms, Polyform and others. And at least some of the talk is that perhaps the building is going to be converted into an apartment building or maybe office buildings. but definitely sounds like some change is coming there. They also suggested, Vornado that is, that they wouldn't be opposed to selling the merchandise mart in Chicago if someone wanted to make them a nice offer. So it sounds like some big change is potentially coming. But the A &D building is definitely on the market, and we'll see what happens with the merchandise mart.

1:04:39What do you think? Yeah, this is really big news. I mean, the A &D building alone, I mean, if that turns into apartments, that's going to cause a big, big shuffle in the design industry here in New York. And it's funny because we spend so much time talking about what's going to happen with Charles Cohen, what's going to be D &D building, but the A &D building is very important as well. And I'm, you know, I wonder if there isn't a little bit of a preemptive flight out of that building if people worry that it's, you know, it's going to, the decision is going to get made for them. So we'll definitely have to watch that closely.

1:05:04As for the merchandise, Mart, I mean, you know, the guy on the call said, nothing is sacred. It was very, very, very ominous. you know i i'd be very curious to happen to hear what happens there because that is you know a certainly more well-known building than the a &d building a venerable chicago institution had its share of ups and downs um you know if that changes hands and the new owner wants to do something different with it that is very very big news so another one to watch very closely i'll be in chicago soon so i will definitely be asking another investigative reporting trip for dennis scully and aren't you glad you stuck around to the end of the show to get this see I wasn't just mouthing off at the beginning.

1:05:40There's value everywhere. This is why you've got to stay to the end of the show. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.