The Thursday Show: Inside Studio McGee's next big move. Plus: Designers Guild nears bankruptcy

19:48As you say, I believe very strongly that what Holly Hunt needs is some exciting, dramatic new product. And I think everybody internally knows that that's the case. It sounds like the message that has been delivered to Holly Hunt is, OK, go find the money and you can have all that great new product. So clearly the cost cutting has to come first and then comes the great new product. Also the great new product takes a year or two to really come to the showrooms and to be made. So we'll have to see. But I would hope that we will get some dramatic announcements about new collaborations, new partners in the future, perhaps some great designers stepping in and saying, hey, we're part of the design team at Holly Hunt in the future.

20:34We'll see, because that's certainly what it needs. Otherwise, at the company, I mean, it's a challenging time for the office environment. That continues. So it's just they're doing the best they can in a challenging environment. Would you agree with that assessment?

20:49Fred Nicolaus:Yeah, I mean, I think just like little wins, little losses, nothing too dramatic on this call. I mean, Bill Arnall, like everybody else in the industry, is subject to both struggles in the housing market and struggles with the sort of complicated return to office that we've been talking about for the past few years. You know, they're a big company and there's a lot and they've got a global market, they've got a domestic market, they seem to be vulnerable to the Canadian tariffs because I think they manufacture on both sides of the border and do business on both sides of the border. So there was a lot of chatter about that.

21:17Fred Nicolaus:You know, I think at the end of the day, they're like a lot of companies, they're just trying to get through a weird time. It's funny, I had a lot of conversations like that at What's New, What's Next. When I was talking to executives, They were just like, yeah, just, you know, it's been about six years since we've had business as usual. So hopefully next year. And I'm guessing that that's kind of the chatter inside Miller & Oll as well. So here's hoping. Yeah, absolutely. And here's hoping for the best with all of that. It has been a challenging several years to be sure. Let's move on and talk about the juicy topic of the show, Fred, the privacy debate.

21:50Fred Nicolaus:A hot topic. In a recent piece for House Beautiful, Alyssa Kahn wrote about a viral debate over one designer's photography policy. But it wasn't just a designer's photography policy. It was a video an influencer made about it. Shall we hear what this influencer had to say about her designer, Dennis? Please. So there's like a clause in their contract. By signing the contract, that means that I am allowing them to take videos or photos of my home and use it on their social media or their website or whatever. And if I opt out of that, I have to pay like hefty fee. It was$300 just for them to not be able to like market my home, which I find quite insane.

22:32I'm a full paying customer.

22:36Fred Nicolaus:Full paying customer there, Dennis. Yes. So, I mean, I think this was a great article by Alyssa Kahn, just sort of touching on this, you know, drama that this kicked up where the influencer was complaining that she had to pay what she called the privacy fee for the designer not being able to, you know, take photographs of her kitchen. And, you know, some people were weighing in saying, like, you know, this is ridiculous. Of course, designers need to take photos. That's their main marketing driver. Other people were saying that's outrageous. It really became a huge conversation on her Instagram page, and it became a topic within the industry as well.

23:08Fred Nicolaus:I don't know. What'd you make of this issue, Dennis? Yeah, it was interesting to see how divided people were, though not too divided in my DMs, where I'm going to need a whole separate Instagram account now to just manage the DMs coming in from people about this topic. So I'm thinking, can AI help me to manage all the DMs? I don't know. But it's yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the reaction from the industry was pretty clearly on one side of this. I mean, you know, it's it isn't it's an interesting thing, like because obviously, you know, in the world that you and I live in, we obviously know that being able to take pictures of a project is huge.

23:48Fred Nicolaus:I mean, it's really what drives the next project. And, you know, many, many designers do a project simply because they know they can take photos. So the idea that that is of value is not a surprise to us. That's not some shocking thing. And I think a lot of designers were hopping onto this person's posts to sort of talk about that and try and explain it. But, you know, a lot of the people who follow her and were just, you know, people off the street were just saying, oh, it's ridiculous. Like privacy feed, that's crazy. How do they get away with that? So, you know, there's clearly, you know, a disconnect there.

24:18Fred Nicolaus:And I think, you know, I don't think an influencer is like the perfect messenger for, you know, a statement about privacy. Because this is someone who shares their life and gets money for it. So it was a little – there was an irony there that I think people are right to point out. But I do think this is a bigger issue in the industry. I don't know. What were some choice examples from your Instagram DMs, Dennis? What were people saying? Well, I mean, it's interesting because, as you say, people who are not in this industry had a very different response to it. But interestingly, one of the designers who was interviewed for this article, Ali Bergoon Nolan, wrote to me from Studio Bergoon saying, listen, I'm just a few years into my firm and I absolutely need photography as part of the marketing material.

25:04So I simply can't take on a project where you're not going to let me photograph because that is absolutely part of what I need to get the next client, to get the next project. So I completely agree. And Summer Thornton wrote in who has huge scale projects and said, absolutely, we have this discussion in great detail. And we sign NDAs. DAs, we're not going to let you know who the client is or where the client is, but we absolutely are not going to take on this great big project if we don't have photography. This is part of one of the most important parts of the value of taking the whole thing on.

25:43So I get that. Interestingly, you and I have talked many times about how many, particularly at the high end, designers can never reveal their projects. Alexa Hampton had suggested last time, I think she was on the show, let's create a salon where people can get together and designers can just show phone pictures to one another in a quiet room where nothing leaves this room because they know, she knows, how many of her projects will never see the light of day. Sometimes clients will agree years later when you're doing your book, they'll say, okay, I'll let you show the photography there. That feels different to many clients, and Jill Cohen has talked about that in the past.

26:26But many clients don't want you featuring their project on social media. Interestingly, in the case of this influencer, she said, well, I didn't hire a designer as a result of that terrible experience that I had with that$300 charge. So by the way, here's my kitchen and my home and much of the rest of what's going on. So many designers quickly wrote to me saying, wait, I thought you were all about privacy and you didn't want anything shown. And then she turned around quickly and showed her kitchen. So many thought perhaps it was that she didn't want anyone else showing her home or her kitchen.

26:58And there you have it.

27:00Fred Nicolaus:Well, first of all, Alexa, if you're listening, please invite me to the salon where you get to see these pictures. I would definitely love to go to that. Yeah. I mean, I think it's funny to talk about sort of the, you know, the ironies of this influencer, but the bigger issue is real, even if when it's, you know, not an imperfect messenger sharing this. And I think it's, it's complicated because, you know, look, I think it's completely reasonable for a designer to want to photograph their projects and for that to be, you know, said upfront that look, this is part of the contract for me. And this is part of the deal for me.

27:28Fred Nicolaus:But I also think it's reasonable to understand that for a lot of homeowners who're coming into this for the first time, that's not an expectation of theirs, or that's something that you're going to have to coach them through because it's not a typical consumer experience. You know, like when you go to Hermes, like it's not part of the deal that they have to be able to photograph you when you walk out with your Birkin. And I think that like, while it is reasonable and understandable and should be discussed, I think designers need to have an understanding of, okay, this is a, this is a conversation that could be, you know, sensitive and delicate.

27:56Fred Nicolaus:And in the case of billionaires, it just may just be a non-starter. They'd be like, okay, you take pictures. Great. I'm going to find a new designer. You know? So there's a lot of like, it depends in this conversation. You know, I think like the smartest thing you can do is just have the conversation upfront. I think if you take nothing away from this, other than that, it's important to have it, to know what you want and to get it, you know, to get some kind of an agreement at the very beginning. Because I think it's at the very end when you sort of find out that you can't take pictures that it becomes, you know, a heated topic.

28:22Fred Nicolaus:You know, this idea of having a privacy fee, I don't know, what do you think about that, Dennis? I've sort of like heard about it a little bit, but it doesn't feel like an industry standard to me. Maybe it's more common than I'm imagining. Well, interestingly, numerous people wrote in to me, many of whom didn't want to speak on the record about it, but they said$300, try$30 ,000, try$50 ,000. That's the fee that I'm charging or that my clients are charging. And clearly, it sounds like this is much more common than perhaps we had realized, that if nothing else, they raise the issue of, oh, well, if we can't, there is this giant fee.

28:59And the reason why is because it's a marketing hit. So whether or not it's couched as a privacy issue. I think it's much more of a hit to their marketing. And I find the privacy conversation very funny in this day and age. But some people, I think they use the word privacy. That's not exactly what they mean, as in the case of this influencer. I don't think she means privacy in the same way that you and I think about it. But to many, and we've talked about how many people at the high end are spending all sorts of money on security and are spending all sorts of money on privacy. So I get it. Every high-end designer will tell you that of course we're never going to release the names, the addresses, all of that.

29:41That's just de rigueur in the design industry. But it's funny that this became such a heated debate and obviously a huge boon for her social media following. Yeah, that's what this is really all about, yeah. Exactly. Denise McGehee from Dallas wrote in and said, Dennis, it's simply algorithm gold. So there you go. Well done. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including the latest showroom openings and the best debuts at Paris Design Week. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

30:20At High Point Market, some showrooms are about seeing what's new. Chelsea House is about discovering what's next. Considered one of High Point's must-see showrooms, Chelsea House brings together inspired interiors, distinctive new introductions, and a point of view that always offers something fresh. Beautiful, sophisticated, and full of those unexpected details that make a designer stop and look twice. This October, make Chelsea House your first stop. Find the showroom at 200 North Hamilton Street in the Hamilton Wren Design District. Come see what's new and leave inspired. Come discover Hickory Chair at a trade showroom near you or visit hickorychair.com to explore inspiring collections, fabrics, finishes, and extensive customization options for creating bespoke upholstery and wood furniture for your home.

31:16And if you're visiting High Point Market this fall, Hickory Chair invites you to experience its beautiful showroom, design center, and Hospitality at 200 North Hamilton. For more inspiration, visit hickorychair.com and follow at Hickory Chair on Instagram.

31:39And we're back. I'm joined now by the chief creative officer of Studio McGee, the one, the only, Shea McGee. How are you, Shea? Thanks for having me. I'm so great. Right. Well, as we talked about just before we came on air, Shay is very kind to take some time away from, I don't know, opening a giant store in the middle of Salt Lake City, Utah. Last time I checked YouTube, the doors hadn't arrived. I don't know if that's changed. We're a little bit behind with - Okay, okay. You know, we have to document and then edit and then share and things happen within days. So So the YouTube is like half a beat behind what's actually happened, and we have in fact gotten the doors.

32:25And the store has been finished. It's been photographed. Awesome. And we're in a good place. Well, that's why you're in the calm state that you're in, and I'm so relieved. And I want to talk about this door, but last time I saw you, you were in New York City. You had a cookbook that you had done, and you were doing a little touring. around that. And you and I sort of had a fun chat about, man, is it a challenging time to be trying to run a design firm and you've got a huge e-commerce business. Tell me about the challenges of juggling all this, Shay. One of the challenges is staying focused because I think that right now in the landscape, there are so many advancements in technology and changes in how people are shopping and what they want to experience and what they're looking for and how they're even arriving at conclusions for their own home.

33:26And I think our heads are on a swivel right now trying to keep up with everything. And then we have to take a deep breath and say, okay, what's right for us? And we have a lot of initiatives, but even though it seems like a lot, that's actually quite narrowed down from maybe all that we could be doing. I think that as an entrepreneur, you have this mindset of like, I can do anything. Like when I first started, I did everything because I had to, I didn't have a choice. And so you want to believe that you can do it all. And even if you try, that means something has to give. And so right now, as we talk about moving into retail and opening this store.

34:09This is the beginning of opening a lot more stores, but I had to finish launching a book. So it's like one project to the next. So I can like hyper focus on that and then go into the next thing. Yeah. And I want to talk because as you say, this is the first of many that you imagine opening. And I want to discuss all of that. But you just made reference to how people are informing themselves about decisions that they are making, which seems very different from even a year or two ago. And I wonder what specifically you're referring to and tell us what you're learning about how people are informing themselves.

34:50Right. I think that there's so much information and there are a lot of people competing for our attention. And also, I think that we're seeing AI make such a big impact in all aspects of our lives. But what I'm finding is that because of that, people are craving actual real life experiences, like the total opposite of it. Yes. And so it's interesting because I think I'm very, as a business owner, we're very split between advancing technology and efficiencies and then also creating in-person experiences that we kind of lived in a middle space for quite a few years, I think. And now it's like drive things forward and then step back.

35:38And that's what we're trying to do as a business. And that takes very different skill sets. And yeah, I think that while it feels like there's so many opportunities, we're trying to take things and just be really mindful of what's right for us. And I think that that's the key that I've learned. I turned 41 this year. And I have this great sense of assurity that I maybe didn't have 10 plus years ago when I started my business before that. And I feel a lot more assured in just doing what's right for our business rather than paying attention to our competitors. Well, it's interesting that you mention AI in the context of retail because I think, as you were just outlining, there is this cultural shift.

36:35And I don't know how you personally feel about AI and the impact that you can see it having in the world, in media, in how people are discovering you and what it makes you think, how you're processing it. Well, I haven't focused on discoverability yet. I think that where we thrive is our content output. And there's a human component to that that I don't see leaving. And so when we are looking at AI for us, it's efficiencies to focus on what we're best at. And so discoverability for content, like I'm not going to use AI to create my videos of the store coming together, but could it help with the workflow and make it faster?

37:30Yes. Like we view that for our entire team. Like how do we free up space for you to do what's most valuable? Like there's so many, like you're copying and pasting that a hundred times a day. You don't need to be doing that. You're really good at this other thing. So let's make that efficient so you can free up time. And, you know, there's a hundred other ways, but that's the lens through which I'm approaching things with AI. Well, exactly. And that's, I think, what people seem to be longing for and are really hungry for. And the opportunity that I think you opening this new retail location and thinking about a broader retail strategy and where you want to go with this, I think you can deliver some of that.

38:20So tell me when you decided that you were going to take this on in a meaningful way.

38:29Fred Nicolaus:Because I know you did a retail experience years ago, and it sounds like you learned a lot from that. But it didn't deliver everything that you wanted it to, it sounded like. No. So we took over a 600-square-foot space as like a finish to a sublease. And so it was a short-term experience for us. It was an experiment, actually, for us to kind of see how this would work. And it was in Orange County. And we were days away from signing on a larger space when COVID hit. And we realized we should pause and wait things out. And so we took our time and said, OK, we're going to build e-commerce. We'd already been spending several years doing that.

39:13And so we continued to build and we wanted to see, you know, how are things landing? What is happening in this brick and mortar retail space? And then when we started to see kind of this pickup again of retail starting to have this resurgence, I knew it was close to time. And I am so fortunate to have this partnership with Kohler. and they were opening a flagship, not a flagship, a showroom in Salt Lake. And they were asking me about this specific location. And I was like, well, if I was to open a store, that's exactly where I would want to be. And then it turns out that a space that had been empty but not available for many, many years next door to Kohler was going to be available.

39:59And then they let us know. And so that kind of sparked this like, ooh, we should do this. And I'm grateful that we actually took that time so that I could feel clear in that vision. I think that previously we would have said, let's open a shop. And now it's like, let's open the retail arm of our business. And we, rather than going piece by piece and saying like, what store associate do we need to hire now? We hired an entire team that will handle the rollout of multiple stores, and they're ready for that. This is like their proving ground of getting things kind of sorted before then we open multiple.

40:47And if you had asked me years ago, that's not how we would have approached it. It would be like, we can afford this many team members right now. That's it. And that's just how it would have worked. So now we're in a better place. So there is value to waiting, even if it was hard. And I would have said yes to opening a store 12 years ago. Well, but as you just said, it might have been a shop. Whereas today, the vision is completely different. And let's talk about what McGee and company has grown into and what really drives the business today. because I think that also has dramatically changed what the store presence will actually be.

41:32And then I want to talk about Salt Lake City, Utah, which just sounds like the hottest area in the country. If I talk to one more company who tells me they can't wait to get there and open a space, which we'll discuss. But let's discuss what McGee became because you learned so much during COVID. The business grew in so many different ways. What's driving it? Yeah, so our business has become more focused and proficient at manufacturing our own pieces. So we started as a brand that did a few of our own things. And then we took a really big risk and invested into switching to primarily exclusively developed products across all home categories.

42:22Everything from furniture and lighting to dinnerware and accessories and outdoor. So that's a huge undertaking. It was a huge gamble on ourselves. Huge gamble on ourselves. If that went wrong, we were in a lot of trouble. And so we saw the opportunity, though, because we are designers and we get to hear what clients want. And I know what they want. And I also, beyond our clients, I have lots of fans who tell me what they want. Whether you like it or not. Whether I like it or not. I see it in the comments. I see it in the DMs. I see what they respond to. And all of that data is incredibly valuable.

43:11And so we continue to use that information and good or bad. We use that information and we've grown over. So starting in 2020, really starting and leaning into it in 2021, because things take, you know, 18 months to happen in our industry. We really started that. And so progressively over those years until now, it's been a transfer of us to creating our own retail brand and vision. And that allows us to differentiate ourselves and put our stamp on things and really have, I'm going to say it, I like control. You know, I've heard that about you. Oh, really? I've heard you like a little control. Just saying, yeah.

44:05I do. I like to, I'm involved, heavily involved in everything. Well, which is what I'm eager to understand better because there's no way, Shay, that you're going to be able to have the level of control that I know you want to have in all of this. So I'm wondering how you're thinking about that. Watch me. No, I'm just kidding.

44:29I think that let's not discount my incredible team. So I am very, very involved in setting the creative direction and edits. But then there is a point where that gets done and our team is responsible for capturing that vision and running with it. And there are a lot of things that happen between concepts, editing, sampling, and then bringing it to market. And I am involved in those creative assets for marketing because those are visual representations of our brand. I am involved in setting the direction for our highest tier projects. And then I have our licensing partnerships. But as I view myself as creative director, it also means that I have to have an incredible team that understands that vision and can capture it, knows our quality standards.

45:25And then we have to be organized as an organization to roll it out. And I have a lot of team members who really do understand that vision that I trust. I think that we can continue to build that, even though I won't have my fingerprint on everything. That vision can be carried through. And I think, you know, this, we're talking about retail, but this goes for design services as well. I mean, anyone who's running a design firm out there and, you know, you're trying to grow it and there are people that are making decisions on your behalf. It's hard to relinquish that. And also it's, it feels scary and you don't want any mistakes, but you kind of have to know when you're scaling that there are going to be a few mistakes.

46:13and then the best thing that you can do is course correct and learn from them so that it doesn't happen in the future. And we were forced to do that with Netflix because we were forced to be pulled out of the day-to-day when we were filming. Otherwise, I think it would have been a slower transition to that, but we had no choice and we were like, uh-oh, we have to instill some trust and implement training because we're gone. We're in a chair under bright lights. Well, and I'm glad that you mentioned that. And I want to talk about the design firm. But the point about the Netflix, I got the sense from what you later said in relation to that, that it pulled you away too much.

46:52It did. Yeah. Right? It forced us to do the step away, but it also meant that we stepped away. And we love being involved in the business. And I think as a personality-led brand that so much of our heart and soul goes into it. And I want to be a part of that as much as possible. And even if our team is growing and I'm stepping out of certain things, it was too much. Yeah, it sounded pretty intense. Yeah, but we did it. And I think you just have to kind of choose where you spend your time. And we have an appetite for success as entrepreneurs. I like that. Okay. An appetite for success as entrepreneurs.

47:39So two things that I want to come back to. One, let's talk about this big old design firm that you're also running and with lots of big projects going on. and I want to talk about, as you were just suggesting, how that informs so much of the look and feel of McGee and Co. So talk about what's going on with the design firm, how big your firm is these days. Yeah, you say big old design firm, but we actually keep it pretty tight. Well, it sounded like you had a lot of projects going on. We do. We have a lot of projects. The roster is full, but we are not at a place where we're like multi-city. We take projects on all over the country and even a few internationally, but I don't, we're not to that place.

48:30Will we be one day? Maybe. Um, I don't want to say never, but right now it's, um, we tier out our projects. So we kind of do tier one and tier two, and I oversee all of the decisions for our top tier projects. And then the second tier, and that's very clear when they sign on, is I don't want Shay actually involved in the smaller rooms or the basement because we don't want to pay for her. We want our budget to stay more manageable. And so that's kind of how we tier things out. And I have an incredible team of senior designers who have worked with me for a long time and lead the communication. We have operational team members that are really carrying that.

49:15And so that's how I'm able to bounce between the different initiatives. And so I think we're at maybe, I'm so bad at this because I will, like, I'll say like 18 team members and someone will say, actually, it's, you know, something else. But that's about where we're at. That's about where We have teams, so no one is working alone on a project. There's always a junior designer, and that's how we do training. Right. We could grow it, but it will be very like one person at a time needs to be a great fit. And that's what allows me to still feel very much a part of that process because I'm not at a place where I want to step out.

50:04Yeah. And I'm curious, you talked about taking this huge leap of faith and really creating so much merchandise that you had designed. And I know that that is extremely challenging. And becoming a savvy merchant, which is what that requires, is something that takes many seasons under your belt to really get expert at. How did it go? What did you learn? What worked? What didn't work? What did you walk away with from that whole experience? Well, I mean, we learned something works and doesn't work every season. And that's how merchandising goes. And something that you maybe didn't anticipate being the star ends up being the star.

50:49And sometimes I can call it and know exactly what people are going to want. And sometimes there's a surprise. And we learned a lot through the process. And I think that starting a company without all exclusives to begin with gave us that information to at least lay the groundwork to do that. We were manufacturing some things, but we weren't manufacturing everything. But we were dropshipping and doing things like that. And I don't recommend – I mean, it's so expensive to do that. And if we were stuck with that inventory, what were we going to do with it? But we felt really, really confident that we were going to force it to work.

51:37And I think that what we've learned is just every single season, it's like, take away from it. Our customer likes X, Y, and Z. Who is she? Like, what does she like to do? And I think that that's, I mean, that never ends. That's just a part of the process. You get that download every single season. And as you say, and it can be quite humbling. The things you thought were going to lead the way don't, and they're carrying the water for a surprise product that hopefully you can get enough of when you discover that suddenly that's what's selling. Yeah. Yeah. That is the joy of retailing. So let's talk about this retail store.

52:18September 25th, is that right? Is that the big opening date? That is the official grand opening. We had a soft opening, so we didn't tell anyone we just casually propped those doors open to have people wander in and you know workout kinks in our pos system and make sure like all of our ducks are in a row and so that's um how we soft launched into the big grand opening because i have no idea what to expect of course i have high hopes for um a big crowd but also i'm like not too big what what happens if we can't do crowd control or we have to do lines. We've had those discussions on what to do, but there's question marks there.

53:08And I have no idea what to expect. No, and you don't. But I assume that since you've been creating a lot of content around it, that the word has gotten out that the store will be open. and I'm imagining a great many people will show up. In part, as we were talking about earlier, I don't talk to anybody these days who doesn't suddenly mention Salt Lake City, Utah as just, right, this growing, vibrant economy and place. Tell me a little bit about that because you've obviously seen it grow and evolve quite a bit. Yeah, we have a lot of people moving from out of state to the area. And the thing about Salt Lake City is that it's quite sprawling.

54:00So you can live, you know, like even more than an hour to the south and kind of be part of the valley and like access Salt Lake City. There's just so much, so many towns that kind of like wrap around the mountains and out west and then also Park City and beyond. So there's, you know, Midway and Camas, and you have all of these other areas outside of Park City that are booming as well. There's a great entrepreneurial community here, and there's a great creative community. And so, and there's lots of opportunities for designers because people are building mountain vacation homes. And then they're also building their main residences.

54:47But for us, our primary business is actually the vacation home side of things. Out-of-state clients that are building... It's interesting because they'll build homes that are actually built bigger than their main home because these homes are to be the extended family hub. So it's like bunk rooms and places for the pop-up crib and the closet. So just so that like every single family can come and hang out and whether it's skiing, we have great summer weather. And so I think it's pretty cool to see, I mean, our traffic's getting worse and we don't have that many freeways. So that's been a thing. But it is like we're having lots of growth in the area and that's so, that's really cool.

55:39I mean, good for our store, of course, but also I'm just really excited that people are discovering it. And of course, there's a part of me that's like, well, I don't want too many people to discover it. I do like how peaceful it is, but yeah. You can see the traffic creeping up. I can, I can, but it's, it's a great place. Yeah. Well, it's, it's to your point. I mean, it seems like a lot of people are discovering that it is a really beautiful place to come and Utah is doing a great deal to make it very desirable and taxes are nice and they've done away with estate taxes, I gather, and they've made a lot of nice changes.

56:18There's a lot of incentive. A lot of good reasons to come. And it sounds like they're investing a lot in development and really doing a lot of building and construction, so it seems vibrant. How big is the first store going to be? Let's talk. Yeah, just under 7 ,000 square feet. so large enough for us to approach the retail store like a home where you walk through and you're living dining bedroom kitchen kids space and then there's like a design studio in within yeah i mean that's big i i think that it pushed us i think our team pushed us um to do that because you know it feels scary uh but now that we're in it's like what's been living in my brain for so long and you shoot products in a warehouse in the dark and then you go and you set them up for a couple of days in a set location and then you take it down.

57:20And so having something that's like living there that can transform with the seasons and really represent what the vision is for the brand, it feels like a very pivotal moment for us. Yeah, it certainly seems so. And do you imagine in having a lot of activations, activities, interactions? What's your thinking there? I definitely see us doing it. When you say a lot, I don't know what, you know, that's a relative term, but even, you know, for the grand opening, we have influencers flying in from all over the country and they, you know, we'll be doing an event with them to give them a preview of the store.

58:03And then we'll be doing press previews. And then from there, it's like, well, holiday, I want to do something. There was a reason that the kitchen isn't just for styling. It's a working kitchen because we could do food demonstrations or we could do floral workshops. I really want that aspect of a store to bring community and creativity together. And I don't want to lose that. But I think that I also have to temper it with, I got to figure out how to run the store. And we're already in the process of opening a couple more. And so I, yes. And so our team is amazing at the store and they've already done this before.

58:53And so we're, you know, we got to set that calendar and do plan those things. But I don't have plans of just like opening and having it just be like strictly retail because I do want to create inspiring experiences. Well, that's what I was imagining. I was imagining that you wanted to do a lot more and perhaps you don't even fully know all that you want to do. But I wonder, Shay, in thinking about all that the business has become and the many facets of the business and how you have grown as well, where do you want this to go? So we're imagining opening up X number of stores in the coming years.

59:41In the service of becoming what? What? I want to be the next great American home brand. And I think we have the potential to do that. I've assembled an incredible team who's very knowledgeable. And I feel like we have a unique perspective in the marketplace of where we land both style-wise and how we speak to our customers. And as a designer-led brand, we have a different lens through which we view homes and how we design the products that go in them. And I will always have design as part of what I do, and I plan to keep it there. But the plan is not to blow that out. In fact, my plan is to, at a very steady pace, continue to grow that if needed, but to take on those projects that keep inspiring and are great for our clients and then take the learnings from that and offer free design consultation services using that expertise that we have already in-house.

1:00:52That is not just like the basic recommendation engine. It's truly informed. so that's that's my focus right now and I want to be at the place where there's like no regrets to what we're doing when we open the store so that as we move forward I can confidently say like this is exactly how I want it done I I think I'm at the place in my career where I know that there's always going to be compromise as part of business that's that's how it is. But as we move forward, I don't want to lose myself. I just want to stay really true to who we are because that's our only differentiator is like just really staying true.

1:01:34And that doesn't mean that we stick to like what we did in 2012. It just means that we are always taking our own perspective and we're not chasing someone else. We are paving our own way. She's just turned 41. She's feeling confident. She's feeling like things are moving in the right direction. But right now, September 25th, grand opening. And we're going to learn a lot more. Anyway, Shay, it is a great pleasure to speak with you. Congratulations, as I say, on everything. And I really do wish you the best of luck with the store and everything else. And I hope that I get to come and see it in person one day soon.

1:02:11So thank you again for your time. Thank you. I hope so, too. Thank you for having me.

1:02:19And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye?

1:02:28Fred Nicolaus:Modsy caught my eye, or more specifically, Modsy's founder, Shauna Tellerman, caught my eye. Last we heard of her, she was working for Lenar, the giant home builder, as the chief product officer doing technology for them. But she got the entrepreneurial itch and is out on her own again with a new startup called Geome. I think I'm saying that right. Kind of interesting startup. It's about like getting from the, it's AI powered, of course, because it must be in this day and age. It's about sort of getting from the initial design phase of a home building project to the construction documents much quicker using AI.

1:02:58Fred Nicolaus:It's kind of for the home building industry, not so much for the high end, but a really interesting idea. And Shauna is a very smart person. And she made clear to me when we talked that it was like, one of the things I did not like about Monzi was running a big services company with a lot of employees. We're not doing that. We're going to make software for other people to use. We're not going to have our own firm. We're going to have other people's firms buy our software. So interesting idea, and I'm looking forward to see where it goes. Yeah, I was so glad to see the note from her. She is one of the really smart people in the industry, and I was sad when Modsy went away.

1:03:28So I'm glad to see that she's working on a fun new tool. What caught you eye this week, Dennis? Well, Fred, I am off. I'm on the road again, Fred. This time I am heading to St. Louis. So Monday morning I'm hopping on a plane. We're going to have a fun dinner and then 9 a.m. on Tuesday at the Shade Store that's at 9776 Clayton Road. Designers, please come. We're going to be doing a fun panel with a bunch of designers on hand. And I'm eager to meet a bunch of people, shake hands, and talk about the issues of the day. So please, if you're listening to this and you're in the neighborhood, come on by the Shade Store at 9 a.m.

1:04:12Tuesday morning. Look forward to it.

1:04:14Fred Nicolaus:How did we not get a Meet Me in St. Louis pond out of all that? Oh, my God. How did I not break into that song, frankly? It's a miracle. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaos and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.