The Thursday Show: What makes for a good trade program? Plus: The mood in home retail

25:12And I think a lot of companies have had to jump in with both feet and learn quickly. And I think one of the issues was always the companies that wanted a certain minimum, for example. And that seems like it's changed. Yes. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, I think when I first started covering this sort of part of the industry, I think there was like pretty much every designer would say, oh, I can't this minimum, that minimum, like I have to like, you know, spend a hundred grand just to like, you know, get you to return my call. That obviously still exists. That's still part of the industry.

25:42But I got the general sense that like those minimums were going down. Like it wasn't quite as high as they used to be. And also like, you know, there's, there's brands like Forehands famously, you know, advertises like, you know, no, no order minimums ever. And I think that that creates like a condition in the marketplace where if you're a brand that does have a minimum, you need to figure out why you're charging that and what you can offer to make it worthwhile for designers. So I thought that was like kind of an area of, of movement. I'm curious, do you feel that that's the case as well? I almost feel like, you know, you, you, your experience a little more valuable than mine because you've been in the game a little bit longer.

26:16What do you think about that? Well, it's interesting to see, again, how companies had to wrap their heads around, if we're going to get rid of these minimum volumes, these volume minimums, for example, what does that mean is going to happen to our margin and to pricing? And what are we going to get in return? I think a lot of people in the furniture industry, and I know because one of my early mentors felt like designers were just a waste of time and they just wanted a discount. Where is he now? Where is that mentor now, Dennis? I still think that there's this perception with some companies that it's just not worth going all the way in on investing in the designer.

26:58But for the high point companies, they've definitely, and you mentioned Forehands, who I think has done an incredible job of creating all sorts of different levels for designers to participate in and different price structures. and I think they've found a way to really cater to the trade that many other companies, if they'll share their secrets, could learn from. Yeah. And I mean, I think like it's not that designers like don't understand the minimums in some cases. I just think there's more of an imperative to like explain why you're doing it or be clear about it or lower it or it's not as much accepted as a given as maybe it was at one point.

27:34Another interesting kind of sort of movement I felt is sort of the expectations designers have around exclusivity. and when I say exclusivity, I mean around product, not around pricing. Pricing is still, you know, pricing still matters. That was a big takeaway from this is you can't offer a great margin than why shop with you. But, you know, I do think that, again, when I first started covering this a little bit, I felt that designers were really just did not like to shop with certainly retail brands because, you know, consumers can go in and shop the same thing. They wanted something that was specifically only for them.

28:04And that was a strong driver. Now, it still matters, obviously. And every designer wants to give their client something that only they have or only they have access to. But I didn't get the same kind of energy around that question. I sort of felt like people were like, well, it's nice if you can have that, but really you have to protect me on price. That's what we really have to do. But obviously, designers are going to want to have a few of those super exclusive pieces in a project, but it didn't feel as emotionally charged as it once did. I think most designers have accepted that brands are going to try and sell however they can.

28:38And at the end of the day, what matters is the business you do with designers, not the business you do elsewhere. But I don't know. I'm sure there are some people listening right now who are like, nope, that's not true. So what do you think, Dennis? Do you think that that matters as much? Yeah. I mean, I was having this conversation with a furniture maker the other day for an upcoming show. And I was talking about the fact that so often on the chat boards, this is such a hot topic often. Oh, they started selling to consumers? Well, and I'm done with them. I'll never buy from them again, because that exclusivity has gone away.

29:08And this particular furniture company was actually doing a partnership with CB2 in addition to their much higher end furniture line. And they had actually reached out to a lot of designers who said, no, I'm totally fine with that. That would be great. That would be fun. I can't wait to see what you do. And I'd love to have that available. So, I mean, you get a lot of mixed messages, but I think in general, the feelings around that have evolved a great deal. Yeah. And I mean, again, the thing that hasn't evolved is pricing. I think there's a lot of people who, you know, who think that, oh, markups are going to go away and designers are going to charge only for their time and design fees.

29:43And I don't have to give the trade a 30 % and higher discount. And I will say I found no evidence of that in these conversations and neither did my colleague Aiden. And I think that like pricing, and it's not just pricing, it's sort of price protection. Because I think like designers can accept a smaller margin, but if you're giving, you know, one price to your client and then the store or whatever turns around and sells it to another resale or like 50 % off, like five days later, and the client sees that price and is like, well, what do you mean? Like that's the kind of thing you have to avoid.

30:14It's the protection of the price. It's anything that like impinges on the trust between the designer and the client is what really is just a third rail. So it's in some ways, it's less about pricing specifically and more about, you know, not tweaking that. The last thing I wanted to talk about is something that came up over and over again in these conversations we had with designers. The number one deal breaker around trade programs that was related to service, but it's not like, oh, you know, just to have a friendly rep. It's the idea of brands standing or not standing behind their product. If something is wrong or it's defective after a few weeks or there's some issue, you know, the idea of brands not delivering good after sales service was just over and over again, the most frustrating thing that designers talked about.

31:00And their number one reason for feeling like a trade program wasn't really good if the brand didn't do a good job with that component. And it's totally understandable. And I think in this day and age when like, you know, logistics can be sort of broken stuff arrives in pieces and there's all kinds of issues and communication problems it's i think a very recurring problem and it's it's understandable that designers see that as like the number one thing i i guess my my one sort of twist on that is that in the in the modern landscape because you have these enormous wholesale players and your wayfares these giant companies that can afford to absorb the loss of okay well i remember one time i was talking to designer and she told me you know there was some issue with the sofa she ordered from maybe a pair of gold or wayfair and they just told her oh yeah just keep it we'll send you another one and i think she even there was an issue with that one and she got another one so you know when you have that ability to absorb a margin i i do wonder if that ends up rewarding the really big players at the expense of smaller trade brands who can't afford to absorb that kind of hit it's just um i don't know that there's like a good answer for that and maybe this is sort of a little bit of a hot take But it's completely understandable desire from designers around a trade program.

32:09But I wonder if it ends up rewarding the people who have, you know, if it just, you know, the big fish keep getting bigger. I think so many companies and I think the companies that really understand what's at the heart of this issue talk about part of their job is to help designers look good in front of their clients. And that can mean a lot of different things. But I think more often than not, what is at the heart of that is stepping up immediately when there's a problem. To your point, not every company can just say, I'm going to replace yourself at no cost, don't worry about it. But to step up, to show your engagement, your understanding of the situation, and to help that designer look as good as possible in a situation where there's a problem with their client.

32:59And I think the companies that do that effectively will win the loyalty of designers, even if they can't just immediately replace all the product. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's a situation where you get the order right the first time as opposed to fixing it on the back end is the lesson. But I think that is very concisely put, and I think that's still the secret. All right. Moving on, it's time to talk about our favorite topic, microtrends with staying power, Fred. Not just any microtrends. Now with new improved staying power. Between Coastal Grandma and Tomato Girl Summer, plenty of niche styles have found fame on TikTok, but few have managed to last.

33:40For El Decor, Julia Cancia asked experts which microtrends actually have staying power. Dennis, which microtrends actually have staying power? Well, you know, it's funny that I end up being the one to talk about this so much when I think, you know, that in the beginning I was all making fun of this whole thing. And now I am reaching out constantly to the design community, taking the pulse on where they stand on microtrends. And it is hilarious. And I hope that people understand that it is somewhat tongue in cheek, because as many designers replied to me immediately, these trends have actually been around for a very long time, long before TikTok.

34:20Long before TikTok, there was the idea of moving more plants into your home, for example. Yes, that's that's true. But I did think that a lot of people were very passionate about color drenching, which was one that, again, perhaps has been around for a long time, but I think is talked about a lot more recently than perhaps it ever was. And I think that that, more than anything, was one that seemed to resonate. Hosting core, which seemed to be about more people having dinner parties. I think that might be drifting away. I don't know. We'll see. I'm always hoping that people want to have more dinner parties.

35:00And I certainly enjoy that. And the whole idea of vintage Renaissance, several designers reached out and said, well, you know, we tried this with the whole Baroque movement years ago when we were getting giant paintings of men in pantaloons. But I think the ones that seem to resonate the most with people, and our friend of the show, Kristen Rivoli, wrote in and said of all the ones listed there, the vintage Renaissance, color drenching, and the whole biophilic, which didn't necessarily just mean putting a plant on the floor, as in the picture that we showed in the Elda Core piece. But those seem to be the ones with staying power.

35:43What's your sense, Fred? What are people telling you? I never even heard of hosting core. That seems like a lazy micro trend. That just seems to be adding the word core to the end of. Sofa core. Have a place to sit in a room with the latest and greatest. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm less interested, with all due respect to Julia Cancia, in which of these trends actually will last. and more in the phenomenon that you rightly pointed out at the beginning of the reality that most of these micro trends are just kind of repackaged or remarketed ideas that have been in the design discourse, you know, frankly, forever.

36:19And I think that, like, it's interesting. So I was working on this piece last year that never came to be, which was I think it was the provisional headline was how much for a micro trend. And the idea was I was going to go around to all these vendors of all these companies like Wayfair and and try and figure out like, well, OK, when when a micro trend goes viral, on TikTok, how much money does everybody make? How much money did Coastal Grandma generate for Serena and Lily? Probably a pretty penny. Yeah. But I think it was difficult in the end because people wouldn't share numbers, of course, as they never want to do.

36:49But I think what was interesting about it to me was the reality that like probably in almost all of these cases, the real winner is TikTok. It's just it just generates engagement. It's just it gets you to put look at it again. It gets people involved with the platform. They click on the link. They're like, oh, what's this again? And then they're scrolling through all the endless content. And so I don't know. I think these microtrends are really fun and funny, and I will always talk about them on the Thursday show. But I think what this article really exemplified to me is really how much they are simply a product of our weird, broken attention economy more than they are of anything.

37:22Not to end on a downer, but that's my very philosophical take on this particular issue. Well, and I think to add on to that point, which is a good one, I think that TikTok has served partially as a tool to sort of bring back some of these things from the past. And if a whole new generation wants to think that they were the first ones to discover Renaissance paintings being hung in a room or plants being put around or having dinner parties, you know, great. Let them think that. Hosting. Let them think that. Uniquely Gen Z phenomenon. Right. I mean, I seem to recall my parents had a lot of dinner parties, but so I didn't really feel new to me.

38:04But I mean, so I think TikTok has been a really fun way of packaging these and showing these and honestly, making it making it fun. And if there's a if there's a new feeling of discovery around all of these great, if it's another way for people to go back and look at some of these great rooms that are examples of some of these design trends, then again, I'm all for it. If it's an educational tool, and getting people excited about design, I'm here for it all day long. and frankly, I don't know where we are with TikTok. Is TikTok going away, Fred? Is it not going away? I don't even, here we are talking about it and I feel like it's another thing that we've just kind of moved on.

38:42We've just kind of assumed it's gotten a pass but we might have to be talking about it soon because I think some deal has to happen with TikTok. So stay tuned for that. We already spent half an hour on tariffs. I don't think I have the energy to get into that. Not right now. We'll have to revisit TikTok and its future sometime again soon. In the meantime, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including Sean Lowe's advice for taking control of a project schedule and how one designer duo navigated a business breakup. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

39:21We're taking a quick break from the show to hear about Hector Finch, who's a proud sponsor of this year's Kips Bay Decorator Showhouse in Palm Beach. Visit February 22nd through March 16th to see how the company collaborated with designers throughout the house to install lighting products in seven rooms. And while you're in town, be sure to also visit the new Benjamin Peterson showroom at 1200 North Dixie Highway in Lake Worth, where you can see a wide range of fixtures from the Hector Finch collection. See the collection online at HectorFinch.com and buy tickets to visit the showhouse at KipsbayDecoratorShowhouse.org.

40:00This season, Jaypore Living introduces their new cozy collection of textured rugs. Bring warmth and style into the home with high-low depths, rich materials, and designs that never go out of style. Whether you're curling up with hot cocoa or sprucing up your space for spring, start with the rug. Start with Jaypoor Living. Visit JaypoorLiving.com to join their trade program and become part of the Jaypoor Living family. And now, back to the show.

40:37And we're back. I'm joined now by BOH's retail columnist, Warren Schulberg. Warren, welcome back to the show. Good to be welcomed back. or many places I'm no longer welcome back. So thank you. I've heard that and we'll have that discussion later, Warren. But for now, it sounds like you were warmly welcomed at many of the trade shows going on around the country in the early part of the year. And you just wrote a column for us about some of the winter retail shows. I'm curious to hear what some of the highlights were in Atlanta and Dallas and elsewhere? So I was on the circuit. I like to call it the fun way.

41:22And it was surprisingly positive, pretty much across the board. And a lot of that was reflective of the fact that retail for holiday was a little better than expected. You know, I think people had been kind of unsure what was going to happen. And it turned out that retailers did a little better than had been forecast. So it's an amazing concept that when you sell stuff, you need to go out and buy more of it to replace it. So we saw some of that. And I think that was a real positive. And, you know, I don't want to be Pollyanna-ish. There is certainly a lot of dark clouds hovering around, which we can discuss as we get on here.

42:14But the markets were OK. Well, what I'm curious about is when people are feeling positive, how does that show up? So it seems like attendance, for example, was strong at these shows, which is usually a pretty good indicator of how people are feeling. Yes. Yeah, I'd say we're almost back to pre-COVID levels kind of across the board. So that was a positive, I think. That's good. And always remember, the January shows are much stronger than the summer shows. So the attendance was pretty good. It sounds as though you feel as though many companies had drawn down inventory levels over the holidays. days.

42:59I know inventory levels had been a concern over the past year or so. People had a lot of inventory. Sounds like they've finally been able to draw that down and they're going back to shows looking to stock back up. Was there anything in particular that jumped out at you? I know you mentioned in your column in Dallas, for example, we get to see Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams space again. And was that impressive? Were you blown away by that? It was sure nice to see them. I was as skeptical as anybody that that would actually ever happen. But they were showing classic Mitchell and Bob products. Mitchell was there fronting the display.

43:43And I think he's realistic that this is now a different business under its new owner, Surya, but that it's back. They're not talking about opening stores and mostly what they're going to be doing is selling to designers. So you're talking about a different business model. But it was nice to see that in Dallas and in New York, which has two competing shows that have a delicate detente in trying to cooperate. the shop object show moved to a new location in the Starrett Lehigh building, which is on the west side in the 20s. Great old building, great location. They had much more room. They had almost 800 exhibitors, and that's up from 500 and change in their last show at the previous location.

44:41So that was nice. And I'd say that for better or worse, that's now the larger of the two shows in New York. The New York Now show, which some of us who are ancient remember as a New York gift show, continues to be downsized and it's kind of stabilized, but it's significantly smaller than it used to be. Well, so and what does that speak to, Warren? So why does that show continue to get downsized? Does that tell us something about the retailers that are just no longer in existence that were the big customers there? Or what's the story? It's a number of factors, some of which were their own doing, some of which were beyond their control.

45:25You know, I think New York as a market center still has validity for as a regional event, because you saw the traffic at shop was pretty strong. And the traffic at New York now was not terrible. It just the exhibitor base continues to shrink. So Atlanta pulled away a lot of the big national brands that used to show in New York. So New York is now a regional market, and it's probably going to stay that way. And, you know, if I were a betting man and I don't have any money, so I'm not a betting man. But if I were, you know, I'd say those two shows are going to have to find a way to to consolidate and work with each other better.

46:15But clearly these markets can't support two competing shows. So something will happen. Something will happen. OK, stay tuned. Stay tuned for that. We spoke to our editor-in-chief, Caitlin Peterson, when she got back from Las Vegas. She was pretty upbeat about that show. And lots of the big high-point furniture companies were showing there and seemed to be pretty enthusiastic. What have you heard about how that show went and how people were feeling? Caitlin's take was pretty consistent with what I heard from companies that were there. Some new furniture guys showed up that hadn't been there before.

46:58They've struggled with furniture recently. I also saw a little more gift. Mud Pie, a big gift brand, returned to Vegas for the first time. And the Vegas market, you have to remember, is the national market for the mattress business. This is where all the mattress guys have their main showroom. So that's kind of a foundation of that show and keeps it viable. But again, other than mattresses, Las Vegas is very much a regional show. And can we use mattresses as an indicator for other parts of the industry? Does the mattress business tell us anything interesting? Usually the mattress business holds up better than anything else on the big ticket furnishing side.

47:51And the mattress guys have struggled. They have not had two good years. And I'm not sure what their forecast for this year is. But until we see the housing market come back, the mattress guys are going to continue to have some struggles. So mattresses are usually a leading indicator. And right now, they're still indicating softness in the broader furniture sector. Yeah, that was a fear that I had. And interesting that you mentioned the housing market. I'm wondering, I'm still of the belief that despite all of the tariff talk and all of the many unsettling potential proposals with some of our trading partners, I'm still of the belief that the housing market is the much bigger driver or the much bigger challenge for the industry in general at the moment.

48:50What do you say? Absolutely. 2024 finished with the lowest number of housing starts that we've seen, I don't know, 20 years, something like that. So, you know, we all know the dynamics of the furniture business, which is that people buy furniture when they move into a new house and they buy furniture and fix up their house when they're getting ready to sell it. So neither one of those things is happening. And so you've got two big drivers for furniture that we're just not seeing. And so housing prices are still really high. And current homeowners have a lot of equity built up in their homes. So if they chose to, they could take that equity and fix up their houses.

49:44And there's hope that that's going to happen, but we're still not seeing that to any large scale. So staying with tariffs for a moment, I'm sure that people must have been talking about them as you chatted with people. And the new administration has made several different announcements about Canada and Mexico and then dialed some of them back, but still pushing forward on the China tariffs. What were people saying? Are people moving in one direction or another to adjust to all of this? What's your sense? Well, there was a lot of screaming. I can imagine. You know, you've got two factors here. I think one is the tariffs themselves and what we saw during the first Trump administration when there were increased tariffs was that most companies figured out a way to adjust.

50:40But it's the chaos created by the uncertainty that probably bothers people more. You mentioned that some of these things were announced, Mexico and Canada, and then were dialed back in 24 hours. You know, this week just announced tariffs on steel, and we don't know if those are going to stay. And you just don't know. And I think that's what's making everybody crazy is we don't know what to do. So, you know, you had some companies showing at gift markets who had big signs outside their showroom saying, we're going to guarantee our prices this week, regardless of what happens to tariffs. Oh, really?

51:32Okay. So sending a clear message that they were going to do whatever they had to do to keep prices where they are. Interesting. Historically, the furniture industry has dealt with tariffs a lot. I remember the anti-dumping legislations in the early 2000s when we were trying to fight back. And, you know, as you say, so much of this never really led to the level of reshoring that I think a lot of people had hoped. All these different levers and all these different taxes and tariffs never brought a huge part of that business home. And honestly, I'm not sure it really ever will, right? There's no way we can meet the China efficiency levels or Vietnam even, right?

52:21Yeah. China's really good at this and they've been doing it for 40 years. And, you know, you have to remember that if you're making a piece of furniture, you know, it's not just it's not that simple. I mean, first of all, you've got to find the workers who know how to make that piece of furniture. And the workers in the U.S. have moved on from making furniture. You don't have the labor force. And then what China is really good at is that internal supply chain. So if you're making a piece of furniture, you need to deal with a company that makes the stains and finishing materials. You need to find the company that makes the handles and the knobs for that furniture.

53:17And if you're making upholstery, you need a company that makes the springs and the fabrics and the frames. And China was really good at establishing that network. And so just saying I'm going to open a furniture factory in North Carolina, you don't know where to get all those components. So this nearshoring or unshoring thing is much more complicated. And frankly, it's a political scam when people say manufacturing coming back to the United States. It's not. Well, I mean, it's interesting because, and there are certainly some specialty companies that make furniture in the US, I mean, obviously, but on the scale that we're talking about with some of the big companies that regularly show at High Point, for example, it's just hard to imagine that the RHs of the world or the bakers of the world or some of the big companies can ever really in a meaningful way bring production back to the US.

54:22I said that at that scale and the price point. I mean, sure, you can do it. But to your point about the labor force, it's just impossible to meet those numbers. So that does seem challenging. And it makes me wonder what all the tariff talk really ultimately then does. If it's not going to bring manufacturing back, what does it do? They act as if it's going to pay down the debt or be a big revenue generator. But ultimately, it's hard to imagine that it doesn't drive up prices or just, as you were saying, create uncertainty. It's something that that is red meat for for his supporters who who just hear it and say, wow, that's great.

55:07We love it. And but in reality, it's it's just it's it's not achieving anywhere near what what any goals might be. So, you know, again, in my opinion, you have to remember that, you know, somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the wooden furniture sold in the United States is not made here anymore. Yeah, no, no, no. Good point. Another story that you wrote for us recently and that I want to talk about in the context of retail in general is you wrote that 2025 is starting off with a wave of store closures. I'm trying to sort of put it in context. I mean, Big Lots and the artists formerly known as Lumber Liquidators, some of those stores, right, needed to go away for various financial reasons.

56:04But what's your sense of all of that? And do you think that we've sort of starting to hit bottom with all those store closers or what's your take? You know, you had a big consulting company, Corsight Research, say that therefore they're predicting 15 ,000 store closings in calendar 25. So that's a big number, but that number includes supermarkets and car washes and car dealerships and flower stores and drug stores. And so the number is not nearly as staggering as it might seem, but a lot of those stores should go away because they were bad stores. Big Lots was not a well-run company and as an off-pricer was getting outclassed by home goods and home cents.

57:03So just bad stores. And so, you know, it's like those of us who are anxiously waiting for spring training to start in baseball. You know, bad teams are going to finish last because they're bad teams. And so you got a lot of bad stores and they're going to finish last. And and then you got the champions who are going to do well. So, again, I think, yeah, a lot of store closings, but a lot of store openings. too. I guess what I'm wondering in all of this, when the Stumps went to Vegas, the merger and acquisition financier company, they came away saying that they felt that if people weren't necessarily feeling positive, they were at least feeling more hopeful.

57:56Do you get that sense as as well, that they haven't seen a meaningful recovery in sales yet, but they feel like it's closer? I do feel it's closer, but I felt the same way in 24, and it just didn't happen. Yeah. You know, we didn't see mortgage rates come down. And in some cases, for God knows what reason, some of them actually went up, which I don't understand. You know, you look at the demographics and this millennial generation and also the Gen Z's right behind them, they're in their prime family formation portions of their life. This is the time when those people are buying houses. And if millennials got married and started families later than Gen X and much later than boomers, they're going to buy houses later.

58:55But later is here. So you've still got this big, this big bulge in in in the consumption curve that these guys are going to buy houses and buy houses. I you know, this is condos and co-ops and townhouses, whatever. But it's going to happen. It's just it's it's delayed and it's delayed more than anybody thought. Certainly, COVID didn't help any of this. So I still think there's there's good things coming. I just have given up saying exactly when that is. Well, I mean, I think to your point, at some point, the dam is going to to burst. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like rates are coming down in a meaningful way anytime soon.

59:45And so my fear is that we can't get too overly optimistic for perhaps the upcoming markets and furniture sales because it's just not happening yet. And to your point, we don't know yet. We don't know, you know, but there's a little nuance to all of this, which is that the percentage of people renting is higher than it had been historically. And I think maybe the home furnishings industry needs to target renters more so than homeowners. And, you know, the best example I always use of that is in the lighting business. If you're trying to reach a homeowner, you're selling them hardwired lighting and chandeliers and things like that.

1:00:38Renters don't buy that. They buy lamps because they're taking it with them. So, you know, I think whatever your business is, you've got to look and say, okay, what does a renter want versus a homeowner? And am I answering that? And do I have the products in my store or in my line that those people want? And that rental market is an important element. and I'm not sure everybody's paying as much attention to it as they should. Well, that's the hopeful message that we'll leave it on. And hopefully this will be a time for renters to thrive. But in the meantime, Warren, thank you so much for joining us.

1:01:21I really appreciate you making the time. You know, there's always another show coming and there's always another good indicator of how business is. So stay tuned. Absolutely. Well, we'll certainly check back in with you and hopefully I will get to see you at High Point in the spring. Sounds good. I'll be at Krispy Kreme if you need me, okay?

1:01:46And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Change at the top at Anmore caught my eye. So Anmore, of course, formerly known as IMC, is one of the design industry's biggest landlords. They own a lot of High Point, Vegas Market, ADAC. There are some interesting things going on there. So it was reported in Furniture Today, and we got news of it as well, that Dorothy Belshaw, who was a president at Anmore, who's been there for 13 years, was moving into an advisory role, and there was a lot of new announcements of executive vice presidents.

1:02:23That's just kind of interesting because Dorothy is a very beloved figure on sort of the more gift side of the industry and had been there a long time and was really seen as an industry insider who'd done a lot to help shape their strategy around Vegas. And it was just surprising because she was so well-liked and now she's in an advisory role as opposed to being president. The new CEO, John Perchick, who's been there for a year, appears to be kind of making and more, remaking and more a little bit in his own image, but it's not totally clear to me what they want to do. They had their digital market, but they pulled back on that.

1:02:59They did the big name change. I guess my big question is kind of what happens next. Maybe we can get John Perchik to come on the show to talk about it. But there's things going on there. I just don't quite know what to make of them just yet. And I know that a lot of people really like Dorothy. And so it'll be interesting to see what she does next too as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we should try and get him on because, as you say, I wasn't entirely clear what these changes mean. It seems like some big changes happening. But I wasn't sure what the long-term plan is there. So I look forward to learning more.

1:03:31What caught your eye this week, Dennis? Two things caught my eye. One was a big comings and goings. The very first guest of the Business of Home podcast, Beth Brenner, former publisher at Domino and many other positions, is now the director of partnerships at the Design Leadership Network. So that's an exciting announcement, and I'm eager to see what that means for that organization. and congratulations to Beth. I'm sure that she will bring a lot of energy and ideas to that position. Agreed. Congrats, Beth, on the DLN. Right? Absolutely. The other thing that caught my eye is actually something that's come together at the PDC in LA as a result in part of the announcement that they were going to postpone West Week.

1:04:20Several of the big showrooms there got together upon hearing that news in the Ila Forcher and Mimi London and Quintus and Thomas Lavin wanted to do something for the community there. So they've put together For the Love of Home, which is a big fire relief fundraiser that's going to happen on March 19th at the PDC. And the proceeds of the event are going to benefit four different charities that are all involved in helping L.A. through the fires. and they've put together a great group of people who are going to come and talk. They reached out to me and asked me if I would come and moderate. And so it's, and I said, yes, I would.

1:05:05So I will be out there in LA and this is going to be, I hope, a really great event where people can come together and raise some money, but also hear from some people who might have some sage advice as to how everyone can best get through all of this and talk about what happens next and rebuilding and the future there. But all these companies that are making this possible really wanted the community to be able to come together, and I'm so glad that they asked me to come and participate. Well, I'm sure it'll be a great event, and absolutely. We are definitely going to keep talking about what's going on in L.A.

1:05:45because, you know, rebuilding both Altidino and the Palisades is going to involve a lot of interesting pushes and pulls. And, you know, there's going to be a lot of conversations about fireproofing homes and insurance. And, you know, I do think it's a topic that we'll be sure to come back to in future episodes. So glad you're going to be able to make it. It sounds like a blockbuster. And we will certainly be talking more about L.A.'s recovery for sure in the months ahead. Absolutely. And if you want to learn more, you can check out their site, which is fortheloveofhome.info. All right. That's all the time we have today.

1:06:15Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.