The Last Time Is Now

0:03Peter Rosenberg! Shout out to that guy. The Major League. Oh my goodness. It's professional wrestling. The King of Kings. 24-7 Championship. 90 % confirmed. Not Major League. Stay mage and enjoy yourself.

0:27it's cheap heat with peter rosenberg featuring stat guy greg and dip oh ladies and gentlemen you bet your ace it is it is indeed cheap heat on pro wrestling nation 24 7 or maybe you're listening on the podcast however you consume us i'm your forever 24 7 champion peter rosenberg I'm coming to you currently from Long Beach, New York. I have to be all over the tri-state today before heading to D.C. on the Amtrak tomorrow. We'll get to that, though. Joining us from his exquisite high-level law office, it is Stack Eye Greg. How are you, SGG? Oh, no, I don't hear SGG. Dipperstein, do I hear you? Why wouldn't you hear me?

1:15I'm here. Did you hear SGG? Yeah. No, I was muted. I'm an amateur. I'm an amateur. I had to make a call before we jumped on. Thank you. For God's sake. You're betting your ace? Yeah, I said you bet your ace.

1:29Listen, Emilio's doing the gimmick. You don't need to do Emilio's gimmick, all right? Emilio's betting the aces. You betting the asses. That's it. We got to keep everything going. Well, listen, we're happy to have you suited and booted in the vest. Dip, Christine, in Los Angeles. How are you, sir? Good, good. I want to start the show by saying something that you may not know. Something very, very important. John Cena is retiring. No. Yep. Yep. That's today? Yep. He is retiring. Very popular guy. Very popular. Some may say the best of all time. Tomorrow is his last wrestling match. What are your thoughts?

2:11Wait. Hold on. So I haven't watched wrestling in a long time. John Cena's still around? John Cena's still around. Wow. When I was a kid, it was like The Rock. The Rock, yes. I recall The Rock, yes. Is The Rock still around? He doesn't still wrestle, right? He's an actor. He's around the Jays, I would say. What about, I loved The Undertaker. Oh, yes, yes. Oh, who wasn't scared of The Undertaker? I love The Undertaker. I remember, well, obviously Hulk Hogan. You know, everyone knows that. But you know who my guy was? Shawn Michaels, HBK. He's still around? I don't know. I haven't heard about him in years.

2:55These are the conversations you have that people have. I was listening to Sam. Sam this week was having a conversation that was similar to our conversation that we like to have about when you run into people who don't know wrestling but try to have the fake wrestling conversation with you. It's one of the great things in society. The fake wrestling, the fake I know wrestling, oh, I was a wrestling person, that is one of the great bits that we contend with in our daily life. Yeah. It's not a bit. It's not a bit. It's a bit for us. They don't know. Sam added a line we haven't used, though. That was good.

3:28What's that? The line that they throw in sometimes. Yeah, it's like now, like people know it's like a show now, right? It's not like the same. Like people know. Like when we were a kid, like they didn't know. That's big. That is big. People were – when I was a kid, back in the day, you didn't know. You weren't exactly sure. But now it's like they know it's a show. It's different. Anyways, I'm very excited. I am – I'm on the train first thing tomorrow morning. This is such an interesting, weird thing to me, guys. I've never gone home to D.C. for WWE. And I'm going home and not seeing my family.

4:04My brother is coming to the show. I'm going to see my brother. By the way, I'm on the red-eye tonight. Just so you all know. Of course. I have decided to get on the red eye. I love wrestling. I think it's great. I couldn't avoid this weekend. I tried everything to avoid it. My brain would not allow me to avoid it. You didn't consider? I heard that the ticket situation was tightening up. And then this is a hot ticket. And I'm already too late. I feel like if you didn't jump in as soon as they said he has 36 dates and then we're putting this on the calendar and it's going to be DC. I feel like if you didn't even at least have a room.

4:37Listen, we could ask. We could always ask a wonderful man like Greg Domino. Are they doing like a – is there a media thing? You are wrestling media. I want to save that for like – not that this is not a big one. I don't know. What do you want? You want to save it for Vegas? I might – SGG, you could just jump on the train. You're there in an hour, baby. That's – I don't want to hold it in the pocket. Greg, go to the freaking show. Yeah, you should go. You're an hour away. What the hell? By the way, I got pressure like this. I can be in D.C. It doesn't mean that I'm going to go to the show. Well, why would you not?

5:11Of all the – and by the way, Dipperstein now is talking through the same thing that people said to him. Dipperstein was telling people like, oh, the Cena thing. And they're like, oh, are you going? And Dipperstein is going, I'm not sure. And they go, what's the matter with you? Why would you – you're Dipperstein. You have to go. And I would say the same thing to you, FGG. It's the biggest thing in wrestling. When was something this big? I mean this is – and by the way, our guest in hour two today, Obafemi, he has a match against Cody Rhodes. The feminator. Yeah, dude. Are you a feminist? I'm a feminist.

5:45I like the idea of Obafemi fans being called feminists. By the way, if that hasn't been a thing yet, it has to be a thing. I don't know if it is, but it needs to be. I like that. SGG, you should think about it. It's history in the making. It's not even history in the making. It is history. It's just history. We haven't seen. The one thing I can compare this to, and I went to the last game for this guy. was Derek Jeter. He was like, yo, I'm done. However this shakes out, I'm done. And it's like, yeah, you did have to be a part of that and kind of tip your hat. You went to Fenway? Oh, no, I didn't go to Fenway.

6:20I went to his last game. I think John Cena is more mage than Derek Jeter. I'm just going to say it. You think what? You think he's better? I think he's more mage than Derek Jeter. Cena more mage than Jeter? No, you don't think that. Yeah, I think that. I think that. Cena than Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey has an album that's literally all about how much she loves Derek Jeter. Yeah, by the way. By the way. The butterfly album? And by the way. Let me say something. One of Peter's unreleased albums is also how much he loves Derek Jeter. That's true. Now, real quick. Can I just say this? And I know you got to.

6:55I want to guess Cal Ripken. I don't want to get. I don't want to get. You can't get into these conversations in 2025 where you're ranking human beings and things like that. It's not what you do anymore. I just want to say, Mariah Carey, by the way, she may not crack the top five for Derek Jeter. She may not, but that's what I'm saying. She may not crack the top five for Derek Jeter. That's the – so you can't compare them in that way, but John Cena is different. Now, did you guys see the post on my Instagram today? And I put it up on She Peed as well. Yeah. I did not. You were saving that one. Dip, how good was that footage?

7:29Really good. I don't recall ever seeing that footage. Have you ever seen it, Dip? No. So what it was was I found John Cena on my hip-hop podcast, Juan Epstein. I sent it to my guy, Olu, wonderful gentleman who's been doing my social media in Chicago. Dip, he's going to help you with PDFs and things of that nature. He's a great guy. Oh, yes. Save to PDF. That's all I know how to do with a PDF. No, he's going to help you with a PDF. He's got you. And he's been helping with social media. And I sent him the Cena podcast. And it's only audio. And I was like, can you come up with anything? and he dug around on YouTube and Cena told us this story about where his rap career kind of started and his first time going to Hot 97.

8:13Ironic theme for today. And my man went and found the footage from one of the WWE docs. And while Cena's talking, we're showing all the video of him at Hot 97. It's amazing. It's an incredible clip. It's an incredible clip. And by the way, I'm very excited. I was going to reach out to Joe Tessitore and tell him, I want time during the countdown show. I need one segment to properly talk about the music part. We can't. It's not a throwaway. It's not a funny afterthought in the scene of story. It's such a huge. Guys, I'll start with you, SGG. do you think there's a world in which john cena is john cena if he wasn't the doctor of thuganomics and word life and all of that stuff no no there's not not a chance he connected with the fans in such a real way and not when i say the fans i mean just like the cross-section of fans from so many different demographics so many different walks of life we all gravitated to the word life, the basic thugonomics.

9:27And that shot him into the stratosphere where he stayed to this day. Even as his character changed and he got more marine, he stopped rapping, it was always a little hustle or to respect. He never dropped that theme song. Nope. And he never took the hat off until it was time to go to work in the ring. His clothes never tightened up and stayed a little bit baggy. He always made sure that Even as he stepped away from that, the elements and the stuff that brought him to the dance did not change. Yeah, Dip, you agree, right? The hip-hop part of it, whether people think it's corny, whatever people think about it, he's not here without it.

10:09No, no. That was like the – I got to tell you, that was like – that's my John Cena to be honest with you. Yeah. because you know after shortly after that after you know oh oh four oh four oh five oh six like were sort of my dark years and so you know in the very beginning you know i mean what pathogonomics was what oh two oh i mean oh three oh four would you say i would say sooner than that because we were doing the word life when i was in high school so what what year was that like oh 02, I'd say. 02, 03, 04 were like my last really in years. And then I went away for a little while. And so to me, that's my favorite John Cena.

10:51I went to prison. You were around at the very beginning. I didn't know you were around then. Yeah, of course. I thought you were already out. No. I was out for a very short period of time. And that was mainly during college. 05 to, you know, maybe like six years. Yeah, and he got in right before that. Well, that's the thing, because Cena, he is, Cena is the definition, this is so ridiculous, it's obvious, of ruthless aggression. That era is the Cena emergence era. It is the bridge from the attitude. Cena essentially is the bridge from the attitude era to the modern era. and that that character it was it was just it was gigantic and it's always been interesting to me because like i'm not saying i like thought cena was a great rapper though i think he's pretty good like you know what amazed me on the on the clip that we that i posted i went and watched the full clip where he got it from he goes on hot 97 okay in this is like word like this is the very beginning.

12:08They had just made the theme song. So the first theme song was what? Was Basic Thugonomics? It was like Basic Thugonomics. Word Life. Basic Thugonomics. Reconstruction. I'm trying to be that that was the first one though, right? So he did the theme song and I guess they were promoting it and he went to Hot 97. It was hosted by Sway at that time. He goes on that show and I just watched the clip. They say to him, how long have you been rapping? He's on Hot 97. He goes, well, you know, I started rapping when this project started, like five months ago. What? He showed up to Hot 97 and then freestyled on the air after rapping for the first time a few months earlier.

12:57That considered, he's very talented. Like, no, he's not a great MC. But I actually thought until I watched the clip earlier on my Instagram, Rosenberg Radio, until I watched that clip, guys, I kind of remembered I thought he'd been rapping since childhood. Right. Just like – Not seriously. But like really going – He got a couple bars here. I got a couple bars. In the locker room with the football team, I got some bars. He really started messing around and rapping when they started this project. And then he takes it as far as he did. and obviously that turns into something else. But you know what, Pete?

13:36Go ahead. Not to cut you off. That right there, that little clip, that just in a moment tells you why John Cena is where he is because when he decides that this is what I need to do to get to the next level and he locks in, he's going to do it. Like this is the guy who learned Mandarin because he was like, yo, WWE is going global. I need to learn Chinese because when we get there, I need to be there. This is the guy who soaked up so much of the wrestling business that he became invaluable. It's like you tell that story, but then if you tell that story about somebody else, it's amazing. But if you tell that story about John Cena, it's like, of course, that's what happened.

14:19Of course, that's what happened. No, he is a true freak in that way, though, that deserves to be like – I don't know if people quite realize that about John. that Savanti part of him. You feel like he's someone who had his life gone a different way, could have been like a Rhodes Scholar. You know what I mean? He's a crazy man. He goes after things with reckless abandon. So I guess it's not that surprising. But I always sort of thought, and obviously this whole hour is going to be about John Cena. I always thought, guys, that the next version of him, like military man cena i'm not saying it wasn't authentic to a part of who he was as an everyman but i always wondered do you guys think that was like dip do you think that was sort of vince being like well where do we evolve this character from and they were like he's so popular we just make him the guy who wears fatigues and flag and it was almost following the hogan this is what you do with the big guy.

15:20You make him Mr. America. I do. I think that it was following some sort of formula. But, you know, Cena just resonated with people. It just, I don't even know how to describe it. He has, he had from the very beginning, I mean, he looks like very everyman. Let's face facts. He looks like the everyman. I mean, a jacked up everyman. Speak for yourself. Sorry, and you.

15:51You know, but there's something. Look, I said the other day that I cry when The Undertaker. Every single time I had seen the last few years, The Undertaker, The Undertaker's entrance, his final few entrances, I cried. I would say that John Cena has that same effect. Cena makes you cry. In some capacity. I think, well, listen, I'm literally, I'm getting on the plane to Washington, D.C. tonight on the red eye. I am bringing, I'm not sure there's enough Kleenex in Washington, D.C. to wipe the tears away for what I will be experiencing live in that arena. But I know I speak for myself when it's when I don't speak for myself when I say it's going to be a massive tearjerker.

16:35I think you tapped into something there that's important. And that is John Cena's connection with people and what that is. I think the main thing is just pure it factor. You know, because you guys know, I never put him on the true Mount Rushmore. Which is crazy to me. Crazy town. I really believe that. It's our most heated argument, in my opinion, about the basics. Yeah, well, listen, this run has probably affected me and pushed me towards it. If I'm being honest. After tomorrow night, you will feel differently, in my opinion. That's what I'm saying. I think after tomorrow, he's solid tier one.

17:12I don't know how you want to place it. Mount Rushmore, tier one, whatever, he's up there. I now agree. But the thing is, it's still sort of through the Dipperstein lens of most mate. Meaning most, the foremost mage, not the four best. I do not, I love him. He's an icon of epic proportion. Top four, probably there. I don't think he's a top four professional wrestler when it comes to the craft of all time. And by that, I mean the whole package, though. I mean wrestler, in-ring, microphone, bad guy, good guy, all the things that I factor in into what makes the ultimate. I don't think he's top four, but I think in terms of what he's contributed and how long he's been on top.

17:59Why are you shaking your head? I'm delineating the difference. He's not a top four pro wrestler of all time. He's a top four superstar of all time. I'm agreeing with you with that, but you're not going to put him on a – you're not going to say that John Cena is a better wrestling talent, is more of a wrestling talent than there's not four others that you would put ahead of him when you combine wrestling and Mike work? What constitutes a different – what wrestling talent, you and I see quite a little differently. That's all. I think total package, he is Mount Rushmore, top four of all time. Total package.

18:33No, is in-ring work, the moves, the matches that he's put on? No, no, he's not. But as far as the total package of again, I always say these put it in this kind of perspective. Who defined an era of wrestling of modern wrestling? He is the name that has defined the modern era. As a result, he's on the Mount Rushmore. SGG, didn't I explain that I see that part? Yes, he has defined the last 20 years. However, I don't think he's better than Randy Savage as a wrestling talent. I don't. I don't. I think that he defined it, whereas Randy Savage was one of a couple of definitive people of a 10-year period.

19:19John Cena has been the definitive guy for 20 years. So yes, you give him the nod, but it's not because I think SGG that he's a better talent than a Randy Savage. Yeah, and I agree with you, Pete. I agree with you. I was going to ask how are you defining best versus most mage? And yeah, in ring, I can think of plenty of people that I would put ahead of John Cena. But John Cena, in terms of the overall mageness that Dipp is using, that's that side of criteria. I think John Cena just he doesn't edge past a lot of people. He blows by a lot of people because we add to that real quick. I mean, this is a tough thing to say, but I'm going to say it.

19:59We're going to talk to you guys. We're late for break. We're going to break and then we're to come back and talk to you with all of your feelings. 877-344-4893. 877-344-4893. But how do I say this delicately? He provides an opportunity to in many ways. replace Hulk Hogan, who obviously you can't completely replace him. Hear me out. But as the years go on, the person that you hope to become, like the Kleenex, you hope as the years go on and he gets older and he comes back around that you can more and more make people, when they think professional wrestling, the first name they say is John Cena rather than Hulk Hogan.

20:46I promise you people want that. That's an argument. That is a very good thing to talk about on the radio. Shouldn't we talk about that? Because you have to imagine, given everything that's happened with Hogan, you have to imagine there are a lot of people who would prefer you remember John Cena when you picture wrestling. I think that is right. Yeah. For sure. But today, I would still say that Hulk Hogan is that name. him now as generations pass and Hulk Hogan is not going to ever be forgotten about depending ever I mean he's he's gonna be he's gonna be thought about like for example right there are some names that when Hulk Hogan and Brett and Sean came around we they were not forgotten about but we kind of knocked them down a little bit and what do we knock down I feel like you know like the guys of the previous generation so like like a Bruno right Bruno Bruno held it down for as long as John Cena held it down.

21:44In terms of tenure, he's the only comparable guy, but we do not put Bruno in that same conversation that we have Hogan, Austin, even though their runs were significantly shorter than Bruno's at the top in WWE, because we moved on. It moved on. I think that Hogan is on the way to... He's not going to be forgotten about. He's always going to be thought of as mage, but how people think of his mageness is going to be like he's at the top right now, but eventually he's going to be on Bruno's tier. Not that it's a lower tier, but it's going to happen. It's the knot is talked about. Because there's going to be a concerted effort to do so.

22:23That's my prediction. Over time, it'll be like, let's downplay that. Let's play up this. This is better. It's just what I think will happen. It's my own prediction. 877-344-4893. Get on the lines. We want to talk John Cena. Saturday night's main event is tomorrow. Can you believe it? it is cheap heat live on pro wrestling nation 24 7 promotional consideration paid for by the following try to can confections fantastic fantasy candies mystic medieval orbs samurai power pellets alien energy nodes they're a candy they're a trading card they're a comic book toucan welcome back to cheap heat live baby yes here's what we're going to do we're going to have ourselves a nice long segment we're going to chat it up all things john cena then, hour two, I am talking to Obafemi, the two-time and current NXT champion who has Cody Rhodes tomorrow night.

23:16We're going to talk to him. And then at the end, I'm going to talk to SUG, as you can tell from his beautiful look today, has court. So I'm going to talk to Obafemi. Then I'm going to talk to Vic Joseph. And that's how we're doing today. So we're going to talk John Cena. We're going to talk Obafemi. His whole life, man. I'm so excited to hear from Obafemi, man. What an interesting guy on the eve of a huge moment for him. Super stoked to talk about that and then Vic Joseph about John Cena, Oba, and some other things as well. But this hour right now is all things John Cena. And by the way, I'm putting together a sandwich as we speak.

23:52My wife sent me out with all the ingredients today. Busy day. A lot going on. You don't even know the half. Oh, wait. She sent you with the ingredients? If she had the ingredients to send you, couldn't she send you with a sandwich? No disrespect. We love Natalie. If Dip was here, he would hit the we love Natalie. She normally, she's very quick to make a sandwich, but she ended up in a rush, and so she packed up a Tupperware with meat, with cheese, with, don't tell her parents the cheese part, cucumber, jalapeno, tomato, some sauces. Anyways.

24:25So it's a very interesting thing. the which Cena, you know, I respect George's call there that he was more drawn in by hustle, loyalty, respect, Cena versus Doctor of Thuganomics. I totally get the vibe of like, I don't need a white rapper in my wrestling. Like I was at a point in time then when like I really didn't need a white rapper, period, if his name wasn't Eminem. It was just kind of like, really? Because it felt like. And by the way, not that there weren't other good white rappers, but you just felt it easily could feel inauthentic. And obviously it felt inauthentic at first if you see John Cena because you're like wrestling's always – Vince McMahon's WWE was always a few years behind culturally.

25:12So by the time you see Cena as the white rapper freestyling, Eminem's already been a big deal, guys, for at least five years, which is right on time for Vince McMahon. When you think about it, that is exactly how it should be. So I get why you could have seen it and been like, in fact, I sort of think I should have felt that way. The reason I didn't, though, is because of the MOP sample, because of the Freddie Fox underground connection, because I'm such a Freddie Fox underground guy, because of all that, it didn't land as corny, even though it easily could have with the, you know, there was a lot of corniness to the way he did it, but for some reason to me it worked.

26:00We haven't spent a lot of time analyzing how we got from word life Cena to hustle loyalty respect to straight up military salutes and military hats and, you know, Mr. Patriot. it just does seem like that's when I was less into it too. And even though when I first got there, he was wearing the Black Hustle Loyalty Respect shirt, he was still hip-hop. But when it went into full, complete, shoving, patriot kind of down-your-throat character, I'm just the ultimate good guy, that's when adult men were like, eh, leave me alone. And I totally agree with the take that A, it probably wasn't his choice.

26:46I don't know that he would have evolved his character exactly that way. But I'm sure he liked it also. I mean, it did suit him well, and it certainly did well with the kids. But to me at that point is when it became very easy to boo him, and I love the point he made about Edge. It made Edge and Randy seem like so much cooler because John was such a, you know, just absolute white meat baby face that, you know, and SGG, maybe that's something that rather than looking at that as a bad thing, we should think about it for what it did for the other heels who were around him at that time. It made them, it shined them up real great.

27:28But I'll say this too. A thing that I don't know that many people are talking about is you mentioned adult males, right? I think that what started to happen around America is that John Cena got too hot. Like when he was doing the word life and all of that, then the hustler to respect. He was one of ours because he was like our homeboy. And then when he became that dude that you can't bring around your girl, I think that's also when he lost adult males. Because I'll just tell you, the first time I went to a show live, it was a Raw in Rochester, New York. And I took my girl at the time and we went and we saw Sabu put John Cena through a table.

28:11And I wasn't really on John Cena like that. So I was like, yeah, that's great. He got put through a table but when he walked back she believes that she made eye contact with john cena and that was the day that she became a john cena fan and i think that that happened to men all around the country right and we couldn't have that and i think that that is what lost the the adult male demographic for john cena that idea that he could wait he went i john cedar went full mr steal your girl with you yeah yeah i think we had to get out of there because they had a dark match and i think he was a dark i was like we leave him during the dark match we cannot stay for this and i do think that had we stayed for the dark match um look i didn't end up with her anyway it worked out it all worked out it would have accelerated the the would have accelerated the breakup i'm sure wow i didn't know john cedar almost stole your college girlfriend that was a story that's not talked about enough either though that john cena would do it to you all right now guys i'd be remiss i'm gonna i'm gonna make a slight left turn here slight left turn not gonna go into details but it's now like sort of hitting me everywhere and i'm on the radio my time at hot 97 is over i'm just gonna drop that right now on the cheap heat audience for the podcast and those listening live here on serious it it because now i'm getting like tons of text and the radio websites are writing articles about it and rumors are coming out there.

29:37So just for the sake of not being awkward, I don't really, I want to talk about John Cena, but just for the sake of not being awkward and ignoring something that's going on, today was my last day at Hot 97. My first day was June something or other, 2007. Wow. Today is December 12th, 2025. It's a hell of a run. John Cena was on top at that point. Oh, no, listen. When I started there, first of all, he was on top, and I was fully back into wrestling. This was like – and let me say, Hot 97 plays a major part in wrestling for me because when I got there, I was so hyped off of wrestling. And when I started trying to get interviews, they were so stoked at the time to have someone at this big radio station who wanted to have their people on that I got everybody.

30:36Interviewed everybody. And that was essentially how a lot of my long-term relationships in wrestling started. You know, Mark Henry, MVP, my original close friends in wrestling all started from them coming to do interviews at Hot 97. And then, of course, that later turned into much more. But, yeah, just I'd be remiss to not say it at all. Stay tuned with me on social media at Rosenberg Radio. Follow Ebro and Laura as well. We are all going to be doing something exciting in the future. But just stay tuned to that. I just didn't want to ignore it because it's going around. Let's keep things going.

31:11I'll go back to John Cena. It is going to be interesting, guys, to just see what they do tomorrow. And by the way, Dip, you saw the Dirts this week, right? What? I saw the Dirt Sheet thing moving around saying Gunther is going to get relieved of the match and someone else is going to do it. Oh, please. Let me tell you. I don't know. I'm still holding out something. I mean, I don't even I'd like to if it's not Rocky, I'd still like to see Batista come back. It's time. Batista should come. No, I complete. Even if all he does is show up. That would be a hug. He'll be there. I think I think he'll still be there.

31:58I think he'll still be there. I mean, too. He was they were the two baby face faces of the era. Like he should be totally absolutely should be there. If he's available, he should be there. My prediction for the match, though, not to make this turn super dark at the end of the hour. Come on. I feel like John Cena needs to be stretched out. And that is the last that we see of John Cena. Yeah, no, no. I feel like Gunther, not just win, but like destroy him. John Cena doesn't tap. Just to be clear. Because he never gives up. Just to be clear. He wasn't able to do it to McAfee. But he's able to do it to Cena.

32:45Yeah, or Goldberg. The last we see of John Cena is him getting stretched out. The problem is, Greg, if somebody were – it either has to be Brock Lesnar or Obafemi doing that. Gunther's already – A little longer than that. Ron Breaker could be on that list of stretched out. He's not getting stretched out. I don't think, but he is going to go to sleep because he's made it very clear. You know, Gunther's made it very clear that he needs to submit. Like he obviously not submitting either. He's not going to be passed out in the ring on this last night of wrestling. No, he's going to be passed out on the stretcher while they wheel him out and everybody's crying.

33:22And then we got to go to the post. I think Cena is going to win together. I think he wins the match. Wow. That's what should happen. I hope you're I actually hope dip is right. I don't think he is right, but I hope I don't think that's the kids. don't want to see John Cena get pinned in the middle of the ring. Everyone wants the big exulting moment. We know what they want, Diff. We know what they want, but he's been losing. Alright. It's all happening tomorrow. Cheap Heat continues. Obafemi joins us next. Alright. He's got a huge match against Cody Rhodes. We'll talk to Oba. Cheap Heat live continues right here on Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7.

34:06Promotional consideration paid for by the following. Double Dragon 3, the greatest martial arts adventure continues with all new weapons, characters and street fighting moves. Double Dragon 3 from acclaim, twice the characters, three times the action. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7. Cheap heat with Peter Rosenberg. And I know SGG is very disappointed he couldn't be here at this time. He had to be in court today. But the ruler is here. The two-time, two-time. NXT champion. Not many people can say that. Oba Femi joins me now on Cheap Heat. Oba, how are you, sir? I'm doing well.

34:44Thank you. Thank you for having me, man. Oh, dude. Thank you for making time, man, especially on what is such a crazy week. Before we go back, because I want to do some biographical stuff with you. Before we do that, take me through this last week of getting the championship back very recently and then turning around now and having a match with Cody Rhodes at Saturday night's main event. How crazy is all of this? I mean, from the outside looking in, it looks pretty crazy, right? But to me, like I said, the universe always has a way of correcting slash balancing itself. NXT is not quite the same without Obafemi.

35:25It really isn't. So I felt like coming back to reclaim the throne was a necessary step. I would have loved to be in the last time is now tournament, But, you know, my whole goal going to the main roster is to bring a new crop and, you know, eliminate the old guard. And, you know, John was already going to retire anyway. So, you know, where's the fun in that? What's the point? So come back to NXT, win the NXT championship and face Cody Rhodes, someone who is still very much active and bring change on that channel. It's it's it's a it's a very good point by you. I do think you are a name that we certainly speculated on potentially ending up in the last time is now tournament and someone who I think would have been very deserving and in a good, you know, you would have been a very good person to be in that spot.

36:15But the spot you ended up getting, like you said, with the champ, Cody Rhodes, champion versus champion on Saturday night, is tremendous. Will you have any nerves on a night like that? Like this is not, you are the ruler of NXT. We know this. You've done everything there is to do. This is a very big event with a ton of eyeballs. a lot of people who have never seen you before who aren't in on the NXT product week to week. Will you have any level of nerves going into a night like that or will it be business as usual? Well, yes, because the stakes are higher, the stage is bigger, the lights are brighter and all that jazz.

36:59But it's not going to be like the nerves of like, oh, I'm not sure of myself nerves. It's more of the excited nerves because when you spend all your life, you know, preparing for a certain moment and that moment comes, like you'd be a fool to not feel any kind of nerves at all. Are you even a human being at that point? So it's not quite business as usual because again, this is Cody Rhodes. Like there's a reason why he's in the position he's in. Like he didn't get there by accident. He's tough. He's a good face of the company. He represents well. He's definitely a challenge in the ring for me, But at the same time, I've been preparing myself.

37:39I've been the face of NXT for the last year and a half. I've been prepping for this very moment. So when it comes, I'm going to have nerves, but it's going to be good nerves. And I think those nerves are going to take me where I need to go. Yeah, you said like if you had no nerves, would that make you, you know, would you even be human? I would say to have no nerves on a huge night either makes you inhuman or Dominic Mysterio. He is the only person I think I've ever met in my life who like, no matter what the setting is, including Survivor Series, which, you know, we had to know that's got to be the biggest moment.

38:17Right. And you see him and he's just like, you know, oddly even. But at the same time, he is this he is a second generation superstar. It's so it's it's built into the DNA. you have created something from the dirt, right? Like you, you were a kid in Nigeria and let's, let's start there. Where, where in Nigeria are you from? And when were you first introduced to pro wrestling? I'm from Lagos, Nigeria, which is like what everyone thinks is the capital. It's basically the New York of Nigeria. Like everyone goes to the capital. It's the spot. It's not, it's the spot exactly like New York. You know, you would think, but it's not, it's just the most, you know, it's, it's the happening place.

38:59Everyone's there. So I'm from Lagos and, uh, born there, grew up there. I was exposed to the product as, as early as the age of like two, three, you know, started watching, watching, like, you know, attentively when I was, you know, like six or, you know, six to eight years old. Um, older family member that, that, that puts you on, um, my dad, my dad, and it would just be something that routinely we would have in the background while we're, you know, doing things in the house and stuff like that. And fell out of it for a little bit and then came back during the, thank God now I can say it because, you know, he's back in the company now.

39:35The CM Punk resurgence when he did the pipe bomb and all that stuff and the product was hot again. That is when I got reintroduced back into WWE. And it's, you know, so funny how like for so many, like the first like half of my, my stay in NXT, they'll ask me, you know, tell us about your, your history of watching the product and i just that's that's something i couldn't mention right you had to leave it out you had to leave it out but thankfully he's back so i can you know i can talk about it now but yeah that that's kind of like my history you know with the product and ever since then i've been fairly consistent with it even when i stopped watching i would always follow up on social media and all that stuff and i never thought i would be a wwe superstar but like you know look where we are so you were a serious athlete um and we'll get to alabama and all that stuff was was track and field always your your your initial foray into sports and what events were your first events that you started messing with i mean i'll say yeah track and field was my first like official introduction into sports for you know as a competitive uh you know thing or career choice uh before then everything was always recreational you know a little bit of soccer you know basketball a little bit of you know just everything here and there was always an athletic kid.

40:49I like to move. I like to play. So like I always, you know, I always did things. And were you always big? Were you always big as a kid too? I was always big as a kid. As a matter of fact, everyone like at the, at the rate at which I was growing, everyone thought I would be much bigger than I am right now. And I'm still fairly big right now, but like I, uh, I kind of like really slowed down growing at the age of 14 because like at 14, I was already like, you know, six, four, six, five. and you know i just kind of plateaued kind of around that area for some years so like were you disappointed that you plateaued or were you like this is enough i'm fine here uh initially disappointed because i didn't quite know what i wanted yet you know when everyone projects you like oh he's going to be 6 '9 so you have that vision of yourself in your head but uh yeah well after some years i was like you know what like after being like you know in the professional NCAA scene and understanding what it takes to be a good athlete.

41:49I didn't have much desire to be much taller than I am now. You're what? 6 '5 on the dot? Something like that? Let's say 6 '5. Listen, it depends on the day. I'm billed at 6 '6. I am 6 '4, 6 '5. Okay. 6 '6 sounds great. No, that's Michael Jordan's height. Let's be real too. Any higher than 6 '5 and you're already a big dude it life becomes like significantly less livable like if you weren't if it wasn't gonna lead to you playing professional basketball literally beyond that i don't see the advantage like as a pro wrestler even if you were 6 10 6 11 yeah there'd be some you know the full-on giant thing is a thing but it also would have probably cost you athletically there's no way to be the same athlete at 6 10 6 11 that you're going to be at 6 4 6 5 so like you kind of stopped in the perfect spot to have both the track and field and wrestling career that you're having now yes i i fully agree you know like you said 6 11 7 feet that's like big big big man territory, but I kind of love this, you know, this hybrid style that I've kind of created for myself where I'm still a big man, but like you've put me in there with Javon Evans, I can still go.

43:14Yeah, it's perfect. So, so what were the events in, in track and field? What did you excel at? I excelled the most in, of course, short put, I became, you know, three-time SEC champion, number three in the country at nationals from short put, but I also dabbled in a little bit of hammer and, you know, discuss, discuss was very, very, it was a very, very unsuccessful venture. I'm still glad I dabbled in it. Why? What was hard about the discus? I've never even felt a discus. For me, it was just maybe my build. Maybe I wasn't like, I was just so used to the timing of the shot put too. So I tried to throw the shot put like the discus, like I would throw the shot put, even though it's the same spin, but it's not quite the same throw.

43:55So I didn't have much of a very successful discus stint. I would say my hammer was pretty good. My hammer went pretty far. I also threw the weight, the indoor weight throw, which was, you know, because I was a bigger size, like I could still go and, you know, kind of score points at, you know, conference meets and, you know, closer to nationals and stuff like that. But shot put was the main thing. So how does that work? The growing up in Lagos and ending up at Alabama, how were you recruited? Like, what's the process for that? And do you know that you were going to end up going to school in the United States because of this?

44:33Well, it wasn't, as I said, it wasn't on my radar initially. But then when I started throwing when I was in Nigeria, I was like, okay, like, as with everything, it's like, what's the next step? Like, we're here now, we're competing, you know, nationally, you know, we're going from state to state and we're doing meets, you know. We're making, you know, some money and we're doing some things and some people know who I am. But what's the next step? Like, how do I really get better? And I had a coach in Nigeria. Very grateful to him. He was the one who broke me into track and field in the first place.

45:01You know, he talked to my father and, you know, my father was like, you know what? You're not really doing anything these days, you know? Yeah, come on. Come on, be an athlete, you know? Come do something with yourself. So I'm very grateful to my coach. But, you know, I felt like as far as like resources and, you know, financial, you know, status, like I needed to be somewhere else. And I was like, okay, where do I go if I want to, you know, get better and make the most money? and here comes the NCAA. So, you know, my coach would talk to another coach who had connections to coaches in the U.S.

45:31And they started, you know, talking, you know, we have this guy and here's what he needs to throw for him to get a scholarship to come over here. So, of course, me and my coach back then started walking towards those goals. And we met those goals and didn't transfer to Alabama initially. I was in the University of Lagos. That's, you know, somewhere in Nigeria. We call it Unilag. and the first school I actually transferred to in the U.S. was MTSU. So I transferred to MTSU. I threw there for a year. I got to know what it was like to have a full training schedule while going to school without having to worry about walking or doing errands for anybody.

46:09This was me on my own doing my thing and I excelled, but I did not have a throws coach. The man who recruited me, he kind of helped around with throwing and stuff like that. But despite that, I was still able to have a phenomenal freshman year, which was, you know, amazing. I thought I'd be able to, which at that point I should have transferred. But I thought I was going to be able to replicate what I did in my freshman year. And I tried that in my sophomore year. It didn't work out. And I was like, OK, again, this didn't work. So where can we go? What's next? All right, let's get in the portal.

46:41Let's transfer to another school. So I put myself in the portal. So I got, you know, coaches reaching out to me from, you know, UCLA, South Carolina, UT. And then, of course, here came Alabama with the best offer. And then that's how I ended up in Alabama. It was a long journey, but I'm glad it was worth every step. Was there a big adjustment from being at a university in Lagos to then being in the south of America? Like what was the adjustment like just on a, on a personal level, life-wise? It was, it was a lot because, but it was also something that, again, I was always preparing for. Like I've always prepared for me being on my own, doing my own thing.

47:24I've always dreamt of that, you know? And, uh, I was a man on a mission. Like when I tell you I wanted to leave and I wanted to be the best shot putter in the world, I wanted to go to the Olympics and the world championships and win everything and be, you know, the, the world eater. I'm telling you, like I was a man on a mission. So like at the time when I was getting all these changes and, you know, adjustments thrown at me, it wasn't a big deal because to me it was just like, oh, that's what this is what I now need to do to be the best in the world and to be where I need to be done. This is who I have to talk to to do that.

47:54Done. Like everything that was thrown at me was just done. And I have that mindset to this day. It's like, okay, if I know I want to go from A to B, I don't care what devil, Satan, you know, outlaw is standing, you know, in between me and B, I'm getting there. So that's just, you know, how I approached it. And the adjustment didn't take much when you know where you're going. does it feel like and we're talking to obafemi the nxt champion he's got cody rhodes on on saturday night saturday night's main event and we're going to get into all the wrestling stuff in a moment but just for some people who may not be familiar because i'm i've been in the music industry for a very long time being uh doing hip-hop radio so i'm very close to relative to the average american let me say this i'm closer to nigerian culture there's a lot of nigerians in the music business and not just since Afrobeats has blown up.

48:45Even prior to that, prior to African music being mainstream, like acceptable in America, there were already tons of Nigerians just in the music business doing lots of different stuff. Would you describe sort of your mentality? Is there anything about your mentality and approach to your career that is sort of uniquely Nigerian in terms of work ethic and approach and things of that nature? Yes, there 100 % is. But I don't want to go ahead and say, because a lot of West, I'll tell you now, I'll be real with you. A lot of West Africans and Nigerians do think that, you know, Americans are lazy. I disagree because I've come here and I've seen how people really are.

49:28But like, there's just something about that third world country grind that you cannot find anywhere else. That is why when we come here, We're machines. Like, it feels that way. Like, when I talk to people about my high school in Nigeria, and, you know, like, oh, how many periods did you have a day? 14. Right. We all had seven pretty much. You see what I'm saying? Like, 14 periods a day where you are just in class and being drilled. And here's the danger of that. Not every kid can function at that level. And as a matter of fact, I was one of those kids who struggled in Nigeria. You know, I struggled, you know, educationally in Nigeria.

50:08But, like, there's just something about walking through that fire that, like, when you come here, like, I have to do seven. Four college classes, five college classes, like, light work. Yeah, it's light work. So, even, like, someone like me who, like, over there was, like, you know, maybe somewhere a little bit above average, I can come here and be an animal, you know? So, that's what I would say, like, as far as, like, Nigeria preparing me to, you know, to be who I need to be today. well where does one find uh jollof rice when you're in in in tuscaloosa man i didn't even look i'll be real i didn't even you just you just waited till you visited home yeah i did i mean like i had friends in tennessee who like you know could cook and i can make jollof rice myself too i learned eventually but like i always i've always enjoyed the novelty of going home and doing home things when I'm home and doing sheer things when I'm here, you know, like when I'm here, I'll go to my, you know, the barbecue grills and I'll go to the sushi places.

51:09I'll enjoy America for America. But when I go home, whether it's three, four weeks, I'm home. You know, I can have my, my swallow, even though I'm not the biggest swallow fan, but I'll have my jollof fries. I'll have, you know, all the home things I do, I'll do them when I'm home. But when I'm here. Are people, are people starting to, how much do people recognize you when you go home now? A lot of men recognize me. Women, not as much, but like men - Damn it. One step at a time. Well, yeah. We'll get there. But men recognize me. Men, you know, men know who I am. Wow. And NXT, do you know how they're able to watch?

51:44How do they watch NXT in Nigeria? So there's this network called DSTV. That's like basically, it's kind of like a cable over there. And there's actually a WWE channel. Like it runs. It's just all WWE vintage stuff from past to present. Every single thing, every countdown show, everything is on there. I'd love to hear that. So, so the countdown show, we're live in Legos. Yeah. Fantastic. Maybe not live. But at some point. It's up there maybe like the next day. Let's get into, if you're cool with it, your wrestling career. Did you hear from someone in the company before it was on your radar as something to do?

52:26or was it already on your radar and then you heard from someone? What was the order of things? Are you talking about as far as the Cody stuff? No, no, no. As far as your original arrival here in WWE, period. I mean, they reached out to me. I was in WWE recruits, which is like another growing aspect of the company. The recruiting system is evolving and changing. But at the inception of the NIL program, I was reached out to, I was told to come to a tryout. And of course, I didn't think it was legit. And then I did some more research and then I found out it was. So I did that. But WWE wasn't really on my radar before then, if I'm being honest.

53:08It's something that was a passion of mine. And at this point, I was just following strictly on social media. So I was still, oh, that's cool. So you were sort of a lapsed fan who just kept up on social media. It was something you loved as a kid, but you're not actively thinking about it every day in your life. Yes, yeah, like I knew the history and I was enough of a fan to, I knew the history and the law and all that stuff. But like at that point that, you know, we had some rough years, you know, 2019 to 2020. But, you know, so I fell off as a fan. I wasn't really, you know, following intently.

53:42And that's when I was, you know, around 2021, I was reached out to, to come to the tryout, did the tryout, made the tryout. But I told them, unfortunately, that, OK, look, guys, I have to go back and finish school. And thankfully, the NIL program was already, you know, in place. So they were able to put me under that and, you know, still filter me through that system to find my way to the PC at the end of the tunnel. So how quickly, like after you tried out and they were interested, in your mind, did you already say, OK, this is going to be my plan? I'll finish out the track and field at Alabama, and then I'm just going to come do this?

54:21Was it right away like, let's try it? Yeah, of course. It was my number one plan. But of course, I left things open, like any possible internship or possible opportunity to do anything else. I always leave that open. Like, oh, yeah, I'll leave it as part of the plan, because things happen. Because I remember at the time, the company was going through a major restructuring. A lot of people were, you know, let go and, you know, hiring new and younger people. So I didn't know, you know, if it was specifically an age thing. So at the time, the landscape was very unpredictable for me. So I was like, okay, this is like, this is almost guaranteed, but not, you know, a thousand percent guaranteed.

54:59And even if it's one percent doubt in my mind, like I'll always make, you know, alternative plans. So that's kind of where I was. But it was definitely my number one plan. It was to graduate and get to the PC and, you know, try this wrestling thing. So when you did the tryout, did you, could you sense this is going to work for me? Like physically, just like simple things. Like I imagine they do things like try having you run the ropes and do like basic stuff, which like, you know, I could run the ropes right now. The second it hits once I go, yeah, this isn't going to work for me. This is not going to work.

55:33It's going to break my back. Did you right away go, yeah, physically I'm going to, I'm going to be all right here. yes because i've always believed like physically there's not much i can't do like i have that belief as an athlete like and you know knock on wood even with like injuries like obafemi is never hurt obafemi is never injured obafemi is on stuff like and this is this is legit this is not just like oh it's a gimmick or like this is me like i've always been able to just like, you know, bulldoze through, out, out, walk out talent, every obstacle in my way. And, uh, that's how I felt about the tryout too.

56:10I was like, yeah, you know, I can, I can do this. Like I'm not in the best cardio shit, but like, can I, you know, hold, you know, hold this lactic acid in my system and make it through the next one hour, two hours. Yeah. I'll die. Yeah, sure. But like, cool. Like, but like, you know, this is a big opportunity. Like there's a time to die. That is it. When you then show up, what's it like? What are the butterflies like when you arrive that first day? And who else was there? Who else was in? Anyone that we know that was in that initial class when you first showed up? I mean, yes. So my class consisted of, I'll name the people who are still currently active.

56:47Tank Ledger was in my class. Luca Crucifino was in my class. Jasper Troy was in my class. Lola Vice was in my class. Jada Parker was in my class. that was that was kind of my class and you know because how things went there was more of us of course you know some fell off and you know some quit and some whatever um i think i think our class did pretty well walking into the pc initially was like it was like walking into a whole new world but not a completely new world because you know when you're a fan you know you find out the inside scoops and you you watch the podcast and you know you read the sheets and all that stuff so you started diving in so between your tryout between when they first reached out to you and you walked in the door officially as an NIL recruit.

57:28You threw yourself back in. Yeah, I threw myself back in, but I think people don't understand quite the degree of how much of a fan I was prior. Before I fell off. Yes. That age, even as far back as when I was in Nigeria, I was following up with the internet talk and even before the IWC was a thing. I was part of the IWC before it was the IWC. What were you on? Raja.com? What was your main website? I mean, mostly I would watch WhatCulture and all the YouTube channels and stuff like that. I was following that. Got it. I would be reading on like, oh, these are the plans for XYZ or said person is supposed to be.

58:13So you enjoyed the behind the scenes of it always, even as a kid? Yes, even as a child, I did. Got it. Even as a kid, I did. And so when I walked into the PC and I started seeing how like, you know, wrestling runs, it was less of like, oh, I don't know what's going on. And it was more of like, so that's how they do that. That's interesting. So it actually probably put you in a different position where like you're with other NIL people. And even though none of you have any experience, you had probably more of an idea than some of how things might go just based on being a wrestling nerd and paying attention to it.

58:53Yes, a thousand percent. Everyone always asks me, what's the best sport to transition into wrestling? And some people say football, wrestling, or amateur wrestling, I mean, or whatever your pick is. My pick is being a fan. Because when you're a fan, you've seen all the wrestling segments and you know everything, so you know the timing. You know the moves. When someone who's been wrestling for five years says, oh, then I'll do this to you, you know what that is like you're not lost so that's that's always been my biggest uh advantage of everybody else have you been surprised at all with how fast things have have gone like you've only been wrestling for like three years on tv and you're a stalwart on nxt you know you're going to be on saturday night's main event on saturday but we all know you're going to end up on raw or SmackDown anytime.

59:47I mean, listen, if I were a betting man, I would think there's a chance that you're on a flight to Riyadh in January. You know what I mean? Like you're hovering around. We all know it's happening. Has it surprised you at all how fast it's sort of come for you? no because i've like i said like i'm a machine you can't you can't defeat me like like i'm being serious like there's no like when i walked into the pc it's like okay how fast can we pick up this thing like i i always try to before i dive into anything or if i'm going to dive into anything i always try to understand the nature of the beast and right now i understand the nature of professional wrestling.

1:00:32I understand what the goal is. Like if I'm having a match or I want to have a, you know, I want people to walk away from my promo with a certain emotion. I know how to get them there because I understand what we're doing. And I'm also like relentless because, you know, as I said, my childhood was 14 periods a day and X, Y, Z and come home and run errands for your parents. And they send you and you like, you had no life as a child. This ties back, this ties back to the Nigerian mentality, like a different level of work ethic. It's just built in there. Yeah. So like when everyone, I'm like, you know, I didn't grow up with like luxuries and, you know, vacations and all those, you know, those, to me, those are like, you know, if I can get a vacation now, it's like, you know, cool.

1:01:13But like, because I didn't grow up with those things, they're not things I intrinsically need. So like when everyone is, you know, doing Thanksgiving or Christmas or, you know, there was so many Christmases and so many Thanksgivings where like, it was just me in the States and I was fine with that. and I'll go out and walk out and I'll watch my throws videos and I'll do something, you know, productive. So like when everyone's going out on dates and, you know, being, having fun and living college life, I was grinding. So like, you can't beat me. You, you can't defeat that. Like you, you, I'm 10 steps ahead of you.

1:01:46Well, I think, I think the thing that makes someone like you impossible is it's there's like three things that I think, and this is in any field, your, your, your, your physical gifts, whether that's, you know, in your case, strength, size, things like that, but also talent, your physical gifts, your connections, that's a big one for a lot of people, and your work ethic. If you have two of those, three, three out of three, forget it, you rule the world, right? If you have the connections, the gift, and the work ethic, you rule the world. But if you could score two of the three, you didn't have the connections.

1:02:26You had the talent, the physical gifts, and the work ethic. Yeah, it's basically, it's going to happen. It's a matter of when. Yeah. And you have all the tools already, including on the microphone. Do you, how much do you add sauce to Obafemi, the man on television, versus when the camera goes off, in terms of how you project and perform? Is it the same way that you would talk in life all the time or do you zhuzh it up a little bit when you're on TV? So on television, there's definitely a lot of sauce. There's a lot of sauce on television. It has to be, you know, you have to really, you know, maximize your personality for people to, you know, grab onto it.

1:03:09So there definitely is a lot of sauce when it comes to that. What's the hardest part of that? Like, what's the main thing that you have to work on? Is it enunciation? is it being slower because you need to be much slower at first than you ever think that's one early thing people do is you get a mic and you speed and and that's not what you want to do what did you find to be the hardest adjustment in terms of performing in that way as obafemi oh man i've never you know i've never like actually like broken it down like that but i have my i have what in my mind i want my legacy to be i've always watched promos when i was growing up say a line wait what say a line wait what and i was just like talk freaking talk you're a human being like what's wrong with you and that's that was what was in my mind like when i was you know mapping out the character and my cadence and all that stuff i was like you know i'm going to go out there and i'm going to talk so for the very you know for the you know my first couple promos on television i went out there and i talked and uh of course when i talked it came across natural organic and you know people are like oh this is him this is who he is because to a large degree it is and then when i come backstage you know i'll talk to johnny russo and sean and all those guys and they'll be like okay you could have slowed down here because you know this was an important message for them and all that stuff but like those adjustments were not like hard you just have to figure out like okay what's important what do i want them to ruminate on okay here here here all right let me slow down here but like go out there and talk you're a human being i i always hated when people did the line by line promos like no you suck like like i just want to be different i want to be a human being i want obafemi to be a larger life character but at the same time a human being do you think you seem like a character where the difference between a good Obafemi and a bad Obafemi is a very thin line.

1:05:12Like your character could easily be the most loved person or most hated and feared with just very slight tweaks. Do you view yourself as one thing more than the other? And do you have a preference? When you think about your legacy and you think about the time that you want to have, do you think about being more one way or the other, or do you not see your character in that way? I love that question. I definitely see myself as more neutral, you know, going back to the thing about being a human being. Like some people are like, oh, do you think people like you or hate you? It's like, depends on who you ask.

1:05:48Right. And that's like, that's the answer for most people. It depends on who you ask. And I feel like Obafemi is definitely that way. Like some people can be like, oh my man, he sucks. He just beats everyone. He bullies everyone. and then some people are going to go like, oh no, like he's, he's fighting for legacy. And, you know, I understand where he's coming from. Uh, but as far as like, which way I lean, I think the character itself functions better as a heel because big dominant obstacle, like, and that's the thing about, you know, making a good baby face, like to make a good baby face, you need a good heel.

1:06:21And like me, myself, I've survived a lot of like adversity in life. and I know that adversity is tall, it's big, it's challenging, it looks impossible. And I know what that looks like if it was to be built into a human being. It's just this thing that cannot be stopped that like one, two, kick out. Oh my God, like the baby face is dead now. And that's what I strive for. It's like I want to feel impossible so that when someone does get the one, two, three, it feels like, oh my God, you know, like he did it. He did the impossible and that's how you make a baby face. So I think Obafemi functions better as a heel, but I also do have fun when I'm a babyface as well.

1:07:00You know, when the people are on my side and sharing. Has there been any part of you that's like, I need to hurry this thing along because Obafemi and Brock Lesnar is just something that like has to happen? Or is it just me who feels that way? Like I picture the two. It may be the most obvious collision course ever from a physical standpoint. point. Is that something that you have fantasized about is getting that opportunity? Of course. Of course, definitely. And especially when I believe in myself and I believe I'm good enough to be there. Like right now, I'm good enough to be on the main roster period.

1:07:35Like there's no, there's no question about that. But I've been patient, you know, I've done what's been put in front of me because sometimes when you think about what's at the end of the tunnel, you've somehow get lost in the sauce and you stop figuring out how to navigate your current situation. So I've tried my best to stay on course the best I can, but yeah, I definitely do. I do think about those dream matches. I think about Obafemi versus Drew, Obafemi versus Randy, Obafemi versus Sinai. I've thought about Obafemi versus Cody Rhodes, which is actually happening now, but I've thought about these matches for a very long time, but I've also tried my best to stay on course.

1:08:11Do you, um, how, what has, what was your introduction to the etiquette part of wrestling like and it is an interesting culture you know in and of itself and like when you walk into a saturnite's main event very interesting you are one of the main events on this show and yet also you're from nxt and i don't know exactly what's being planned but i know a lot of main roster talent is going to be there it's still going to feel very much like a big show um so what do you find it like being like when you're an nxt person who then shows up to the big places and you go from being the biggest fish when you're at nxt so now here everybody knows you but there is still a pecking order and a certain level of respect that needs to be shown at all times i mean you carry yourself the way you want to be addressed right so i have two options i can go to the main roster and i can you know put my head down and you know shake everybody's hand and then or i can walk in they were my head up still shake everyone's hands and show respect but they're like oh this guy belongs you know fake it till you make it you know and like in my case i'm not necessarily faking it no i'm just i'm acting my age like i've i've also done some very big things like a lot of guys haven't done so regardless of you know main roster nxt uh i definitely do feel like the older guy in nxt i feel like to some degree like you know i've been here for a while and like i'm definitely you more seasoned than a lot of guys on the roster.

1:09:47But at the same time, when I go up there, I feel like I belong. I don't feel like I'm an NXT guy coming up. I feel like I'm definitely one of the players. And not a lot of people have held the NXT championship twice. And obviously there's a lot thought of you already. So to your point, yeah, you're not faking it at this point. It's just a matter of time. but this has been a real treat to watch. Seeing you emerge as a star has been a super exciting, man. I think the ceiling is incredibly high for you. When you show up on one more question on Saturday before I let you go, when you show up in a situation like that with a Cody Rhodes, like you said, you come in, head up, firm handshake, ready to go.

1:10:33Do you go into sort of student mode at that point where you look to Cody to be like, hey, you listen to Cody on what he envisions and then you follow up from there? How do you think something like that goes? Obviously, this is your first time having a match of this level with a superstar like that. I mean, definitely I'll have my thoughts and opinions, but I do like to, one of the rules I've always adopted for myself is that when I go somewhere new, it's better to shut up and study first before you have your own take. Like that's what comes with understanding the beast, understanding with the machine, which is one of the things I love to do.

1:11:10I love to understand my environment. So when it comes to that kind of scenario, I would listen to Cody. He's not a nobody. He's a huge somebody. So if he makes a call or a decision or, you know, there's probably a good reason why. And do you have your outfit prepared yet for that arrival shot? You know, because they're going to show Cody. He's going to have the three-peat suit and the pocket watch and the accoutrement. Are you all prepared? I'm prepared. You know my Obafemi shirts. You know what I do. I have one locked and loaded for Cody. Oba, thank you for the time. Good luck and have fun on Saturday night.

1:11:48Thank you, my friend. I will. The great NXT champion Obafemi will come back and wrap things up here on Sheep Heat Live Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7. Promotional consideration paid for by the following. Stalk chocolate reason. If you like chocolate, then you'll love reason. Extra chewy chocolate caramels covered with a rich chocolate coating. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Cheap Heat Live, Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7. And it's been a hell of a show getting us ready for Saturday night's main event. Now, we just spoke to a really important figure on NXT and the champion, two-time champion Obafemi.

1:12:25But let's talk to the star of NXT, the reason that you turn on the CW every Tuesday night, and that is the voice of NXT, Vic Joseph. Vic, joining us from his palatial estate. How are you, sir? I'm doing great. I actually started looking around for Booker T because Booker is the true star of the show. By the way, you're not wrong. I mean, he's the most consistently popular star on NXT. That is for sure. I got to go back to when we were in New York City and the handshake that you two had. You gave me like a nod, but you went in hand on hand on hand on hand. It was like, that was deep. That was deep.

1:13:07well listen i know what it's like you and i you and i have both played the sort of uh you know seemingly straight guy to booker t on camera it's a fun role it's a it's a it's an adventure you the looks he gives the knowing where he's going when he's just getting his shit in and having fun it's it's a treat working with the man it certainly is uh something different You know, when you think about working with a Hall of Famer like Booker, I mean, what hasn't he done? Right. What title hasn't he won? Where hasn't he gone? What hasn't he experienced? So that's the unique thing working with him. And it's even with guys like I know you had Oba on and John Cena tomorrow and everything he has in his mind.

1:13:53I say a lot about Sean, but it's also true about Booker. He's forgotten more about this business than you and I will ever know. Well, no, he's definitely forgotten more in the last several years now that his time spent when not doing television is having a great time on the golf course and enjoying enjoying the days, if you will, when he's not running reality of wrestling, of course. Now, let's talk about this. I want to hit you with some Cena stuff. But in just talking to Oba about this match with Cody Rhodes, how excited are you as someone who's called every Obafemi match in WWE? How excited are you to just see him get this opportunity and see what it looks like when he's in the ring with someone of the caliber of a Cody Rhodes?

1:14:36I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't jealous, but I'm not calling it. You know, Cody is somebody who I've grown to really admire over, well, since his return, to be honest. And every time he's come down to NXT, he's been so gracious to not only me, but anybody with his time. And even getting text messages from him during shows. I did a SmackDown recently with Corey Graves, I want to say in October, in San Jose. And he was texting during the show. and what he's willing to talk to talent about. And he, to me right now, no disrespect to someone like Roman Reigns, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, those are the weekly measuring sticks in our industry, in the WWE.

1:15:23And for Oba to be able to go up against a Cody Rhodes, this guy hasn't even been competing on TV for three full years. This is truly a test for Oba to see where he's at. And again, I'm jealous of the guys that are going to be sitting ringside calling that match. And Oba is somebody who, from the very beginning, I think you know what I mean here, had the it factor. He had it. He's got it all. Now he's built the house. He's built the foundation. Now he's able to put up some nice windows. Now he's able to pick that big screen TV. Now he's able to pick out the front door. That's what he's doing with Cody Rose.

1:16:06He's not quite going to finishing school yet, but he's certainly going to get an education. Now, listen, you say you're jealous. I don't see why right now you don't just send a text message to Michael Cole and say respectfully, Cole, stand down. I believe I should be the man to call Oba versus Cody. I'd love to call Oba versus Cody. I'd love to call Sol versus Bailey. I'd love to call the tag team match with Javon. You'd have a lot of insight. I'd love to be on the countdown show. I'd love to be on the kickoff. I'd love to be included any way I could be. But you know what? It's one of those things where I get to be a fan on Saturday.

1:16:49I get to sit back. I get to tune in to Peacock. I get to watch on YouTube. And you are just coming up. Listen, guess what? I just sat back in my home being that, watching these Iron Survivor matches with you on the call, and you did a spectacular job. By the way, hot take. We've got to get to the scene of the thing. We have limited time here. Sure. Hot take. The Iron Survivor match, better than the War Games match. I don't mean the specific matches. I mean the actual type of match. The Iron Survivor match is a better match in design than the War Games match. It's such a thrilling match. It's my favorite match.

1:17:26deadline is my favorite event of the year that isn't bs that isn't hyperbole that is fact it's so fun man like i just i have fundamental problems with war games god bless dusty i i just the the fact that they tell you at the beginning of the match and i'm sure you think the same way because you're a play-by-play guy so you're always keeping in mind the energy oh hey by the way this match doesn't officially start for like 30 minutes this is all just sort of whatever till we get there whereas the iron survivor everything counts from the second it begins it's just super exciting all right let's get to john cena you've now been with the company for like a decade um what memories what comes to mind when you think of this icon who's wrapping it up tomorrow night well a couple of different folds you know before coming to the wd being a fan um i remember going to see monday at Ron Columbus and my college roommate and I, Jordan, had tickets on the side ramp.

1:18:25And he had a sign that said, I came here for Cena. I came here for an armband. And he made a bullseye. And John took his armband off, rolled it up, threw it towards us. And it would have hit us. And he would have caught it if not for my lanky arms jumping up and smacking it away so he had no fun and did not get his armband. That's just the type of person that I am. You are the worst. That is so on brand. It's unbelievable. And he has not let me forget that. So that's what I remember as a fan. I don't know if I've shared this story with you the last time I was on or privately, but when I got called up to 205 Alive, which would have been in 2017, John was at a show.

1:19:09And I went up and I shook his hand. I said, hi, John. My name is Vic Joseph. I'm new to the company. It's my first, second week, quote-unquote, up on the main roster. Do you have any advice? And he said, I'll be watching. I'll let you know. And I didn't think anything of it. And we did the show. And, of course, if you remember, 205 Live was after SmackDown. And so I would do the match. I walked to the back. I saw his locker room. His door was open. Long story short, knocked on the door. John, nice to meet you. He said, come in here. I'm thinking, holy, yes. You know, I don't want to cuss. And he broke down.

1:19:44If you know the stories, you'll never go wrong, this and that. He came to NXT the day my father passed away, and I couldn't miss that show. And so I did the show, and he was there to talk to me. And I saw him again this past year, and I said, hey, I just want to thank you for the first day I was here, not sticking your nose or walking away because you're John Cena, but for sitting me down even after the show and giving me advice. I have never forgotten that advice. And while I didn't get it on day one, and I didn't get it after year one, and I didn't get it while I was doing Monday Night Raw, I certainly understand what you mean now seven, eight years in.

1:20:22And I've never forgotten it. And I thank you for taking that time. So John has meant a lot to my overall foundation and even talking to you about Evolve stuff. It comes from John. How many times have I told you, just know the stories. That is what John taught me the first time he ever met me. and that's what I've always hung my hat on. I may not know every move, but I know the story and I try to get the emotion out of it. And that is from John and that's the biggest thank you that I can give to that man on the eve of his final match. We're down to the last minute here with Vic Joseph, the voice of NXT.

1:21:02A lot of us as fans think it's likely that he'll end up tapping or going to sleep against Gunther or whatever it is. I got to tell you, I knew Dominic would win. But when the hand hit three, my heart sunk a bit. Is there a part of you, the kid of you, that just would love to see John Cena win? Damn, what makes sense. Don't you just want to see Cena win? Yeah, I do. But also knowing Gunther and been around him and NXT UK, I think this is a great honor for that man. I'm excited for tomorrow. I don't know when, lose, or draw, what is going to happen. But my ass will be seated watching Peacock tomorrow night for Saturday night's mid-event.

1:21:37you are very good and i will be seated in front of the cw come tuesday night to watch vick joseph alongside booker t nxt every week guys enjoy saturday night's main event enjoy the countdown show the post show we'll catch you all up next week we appreciate you uh thank you john cena and stay mage and enjoy yourself everyone