The Respect Boo

0:03Peter Rosenberg! Shout out to Psycho.

0:09The Major League. Oh my goodness. It's professional wrestling. The King of Kings. 24 seconds. Chicken jam. A thousand percent. Confirmed. Not Major League. Stay mage and enjoy yourself.

0:27it's cheap heat with peter rosenberg featuring stat guy greg and dip oh ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard to cheap heat live pro wrestling nation 24 7 i'm your forever 24 7 champion peter rosenberg coming to you from the final time uh at least for now on my uh in my current location in the 70s as of two weeks from now i'll be all the way up in the 90s a different world guys the upper west side the 70s upper west side in the 90s it is i mean years years apart uh coming to us from his very serious and scholarly looking office i like this look for the physically strong stack guy greg well thank you p i'm glad you like this look i have court later today and i don't feel like setting up and then switching the setup so that I can look professional later.

1:24So I'm just going to keep it professional right now. I actually think this is like kind of mage for the brand dip. What are your thoughts? I got to tell you, my whole life I've been struggling to figure out what all these degrees are behind these lawyers, these doctors. I see these degrees. Who knows what any of these things are? What do they say? They say nothing. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, lots of blah, blah, blah. Summa cum blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. It's a bunch of nonsense is what it is. It's a certificate of Schmagegieville. That's what it is. Either way, I still like this look, though, for the lawyer.

2:03This is the right look. And it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. You might as well put it up on the wall. That's exactly right. You pay hundreds of grants for those blah, blah, blahs. Yeah, your artwork costs hundreds of dollars, and it's on the wall, so you know, might as well put it up. Yeah, I didn't get a plaque for 35 under 35 in the Hollywood Reporter, but I did have one made, of course, and it has hung in my office. So I guess that's the equivalent, the Schmagegger equivalent. I don't want to start beef so early in the podcast, but your 35 under 35 plaque was made and is on your wall before the 24-7.

2:38Oh, yeah, it sure was. Instantane, dude. Justin Tain. And I want Dip to know, I'm just laying down the gauntlet right now. If one of Dip's newer wrestling clients were to win some sort of grand thing, and they were to get that thing framed with the picture, and I were to lose mine, and I were to still not have mine, I should say, Dip, he'd be gone before the thing was hanging on the wall. I would hire his number one nemesis as my manager. It would be the ultimate feud like you've never seen before, all because he got someone's title thing framed before the 24-7, which is – I don't know where it is.

3:29It's in the beach house now, just sitting in its jacket. It's very, very sad what's going on here. Let me just comment for a second. Let me tell you something. I know Peter Rosenberg almost as good as anybody, okay? I could see already they're not ready for this move. there's there's there's schlock and mishigas behind him a thousand percent they haven't packed one thing they're moving in two weeks pack there's nothing there's nothing going on i'm not packing you're not you're not not taking clothes not taking no i'm not i saw a gentile man will come help me do that and i will watch and go great job you're not even packing you're not packing personal effects on your own i will i will probably grab like my watch and like uh you know my glasses and like a handful of like my really important things okay and the rest will be a full packing job but but okay so you're gonna let this gentile man handle your underwear you're this gentile man is handling your underwear a woman just this gentile person is is it may not be a gentile maybe it's a jewish mover i don't know we're not going to a place called like oi so I don't think so.

4:36That'd be a great name for a Jewish moving company. I know. Should we do it? And all they do is complain and heckle you and say, why don't you take it if you want to move so bad? You're the one who wants to move. What do you got me carrying this stuff for? I don't know. I mean, this weekend, we are going to go through our clothes to try to get rid of stuff and not bring it at all, like stuff that we can just get rid of. but to answer your question if i can save money like if i can save some money in the move by packing my clothes then i'll pack clothes but my last couple of moves i did nothing they literally empty your drawers into boxes and label the box good night good luck and walk out yeah i didn't do that with mine it was only big things only big stuff i've moved a lot And you pack the boxes yourself of your clothes?

5:31Yeah. I don't want anyone touching my things. I don't know. I'm with Dip on that. And they're sweating. And it's, you know, I don't want sweaty hands all over my underwear. Well, just for the record, I will say this. When they would be touching your undergarments and things of the like, they're usually not sweaty yet. It's like when they just got there, they pack the boxes and they tape them up. And they don't do it after they've done all the trips. So they're not sweating into your underwear. You don't know when these people sweat. You don't know when they start to sweat. Okay, I'm telling you, I have a lot of stairs in my house.

6:07The moment they walk up the steps, there's sweat pouring all over the place. I have to tell you, after my 20s, when I'd moved myself with friends a bunch of times, the first time I ever paid for a complete move, I said, well, this is the only way I will move for the rest of my life. It is to me the money best spent on planet Earth. But again, SGG, Dip will sit in 43B on a 17-hour flight. There, he's not concerned about the germs and filth next to him. The men lifting up, the men taking all his clothes in one fell swoop and dropping it in the box, he's worried about. We all have different things.

6:49I don't worry about that particularly. I don't, I've seen them do it. they do it so fast it's it's literally it's done in two seconds it's in a box and it's gone but listen who knows maybe i'll change my mind either way you're right dip not a lot has been done yet but the beauty of movers is you don't have that much you have to do they they do take it all and safely pack it up but i'm very excited i'm gonna have like an allotted space to be in when we do the show i won't have the uh pack and play or the uh baby jail behind us you know whatever it is. What's that called? Playpen? Playgate? Whatever it's called.

7:25Playpen. It won't be there anymore. So we'll have a nice situation for everybody. Dip, I like that you moved some figures into the background, by the way. I was hoping you had mentioned it. I'm going to take a second on these figures. So I get home from a very extended personal trip. By the way, shout out to my grandfather who passed away a couple of weeks ago. Peepaw. I will tell you his favorite, he has two he had two favorite wrestlers okay uh one was the great muta all right wow he used yes when i was little he used he knew i was scared of the great muta and he used to stick his tongue out like the great muta and scare me and that was a thing did he ever missed you a man of taste he never he never missed me and i was the other the other the other um the other his other favorite were the bushwhackers and he used to see me like do the dance when i was little and he used to think that there was something wrong with me.

8:15And then finally, when I was old enough to be able to verbalize it, I would say, no, you got it. This is from the Bushwhackers. So shout out to Peepaw. How did Peepaw land on Peepaw as a nickname? I know Mima. I've never heard Peepaw. It was the classic case of couldn't say grandpa. And that's how it came out. And that's how it stuck. It was you who couldn't say it. Yeah. So you called him Peepaw. Correct. And this wonderful, loving man who cared for you, his entire life, you saddled him with the nickname that had P as the first half of it. That's how you showed him. He loved it. It became his persona.

8:52It was his AOL screen name. It became everything. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He lived for Peepaw. Is that a double E or is it a P-Paw? No, it's P-E-P-A. P-E-P-A? Yes. Anyway, a big proponent of mine. That is how Mima's done. Mima, I think, is M-E-M-A. Correct. So PPAR being P-E-P-A. Yes, complete legend. So God bless. And so I will say the reason why I have these here, I come back from this long, horrible trip to a gigantic box in front of my door. And I open it and I had had a very casual conversation with Smart Mark Sterling, who has now become my friend, who I told you I met, you know, through Max, who is, I mean, Smart Mark Sterling.

9:42one of the great guys of our time. Yeah. Okay. I believe it. So as you know, he does the, you know, the, the, the podcast with Cardona, the, the major, you know, the major figure podcast or whatever. And, and I, and I, I was cavilling about how gorgeous these, these, these like, you know, big rubber guys are. And, uh, what do you know? They send me, the pod sends me a gigantic box of the figures. So these were two, I was, it was very sweet. So how many, How many figures they send you? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 figures. Well, this would have been. If I. Yeah, I know. I know what you're going to say.

10:23If he was a childhood dipper scene would have keeled over. I basically keeled over. So I get 13 at once would have been just beyond. Yeah. Bed, bath and beyond. But look, look at the look how gorgeous. I mean, look at. Grab the martel. Let's take a look at the martel. Look at this Martell. Who wouldn't want this? This is gorgeous. I mean, you have the tortoise sunglasses. You have the arrogance. Look at the detail in these. I mean, they're unbelievable. It's fucking beautiful, this thing. Real quick, do they move or are they like stuck in position? No, they don't move. They're just beautiful statues.

11:00I mean, this belongs in the Louvre. I got Tully Blanchard back here. I mean, look at Tully. Look at that chest hair on Tully Blanchard. So are you going to keep all of these in their boxes at this stage in life? I haven't decided. I think I want to play with them.

11:20I'm thinking about playing with them. I have to tell you something, and I want to say this in a way that won't offend anyone. I know that a large portion of our audience enjoys the figures. People enjoy the figures. Many people do. Yeah, I enjoy the figures. Not those figures, but I'm down with it. You don't like those figures or you don't have any? So you've never participated. How could you not like these? They don't move. They don't do the stuff. But LJNs don't move. You're not into LJNs? I didn't like those either, no. LJNs are my number one. Every time they upgraded, I moved on to the upgrade.

11:55When they pad the Hasbros and I saw that arms could move on figures, I was like, I'm out on the LJNs. I was just going to say, though, So I have a lot of qualities that are very nerdy, and I have a lot of collectibles of so many different things. I am so glad I do not have the figure bug. I don't know that. It's so weird to me that you don't. I feel like you would. I don't know. No. My parents never got them for me. This is a really important lesson for me as a parent. If you refuse to let your child have something, it may work out that they lose interest eventually. I only had like eight LJNs.

12:33And I never had figures around, so it never became a thing for me. And then by the time I got back into wrestling in my 20s, I didn't give a damn about the thing. And then I got the vintage shirt itch. So once I had the vintage shirt itch, I'm certainly, you know, I'm done. Speaking of which, by the way, if you have the vintage shirt itch, wrestling for sale, it is going down. the San Diego Screwjob is happening November 29th, 789 West Harbor Drive, Unit 155 in San Diego. Vintage wrestling collectibles, of course, the T-shirts, tacos, cocktails, fine art, and merch galore, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on the 29th, guys.

13:22What is that? Is that one week from tomorrow? So it's on the Saturday of Survivor Series morning. so I'm going to try to pop by there before I go to the actual actually I think I can 10 a.m. I should be good I'm going to I'm going to pop by and say hello and you can make that yes I'll do my favorite thing which is show up and pick a t-shirt that I want and hound Ted until I get said t-shirt and I've seen the stuff that he has and it is crazy I'm going to be there I decided to go 48 hours ago so i will be in san diego for the survivor series another weird trade of dips by the way his his method of traveling the he travels like a rapper like yeah like you talk to him on a thursday he's like oh i'm not sure if i'm going uh do you have a flight oh no not yet it may it sg it doesn't go with his personality at all you would think that all the dates would be selected.

14:21By the way, and that you're not going to get the worst prices humanly possible. He just doesn't care. I'm going in the morning. It's crazy. I don't like to plan that far in advance for travel. It doesn't make me nervous that the flight is coming up in two days. I don't have a flight. I'll book it when I book it. Yes, sometimes the prices go up, but I think it's overstated how much the prices go. And believe me, I hate air travel and I think it's probably overstated. But it's overstated him because he sits in the bathroom. If you want a good seat at a good time, you got to get in advance. Well, no, but I'm going to push back in this way, too, because the airlines are bullish.

15:04And like, for example, you know, we love this topic. My San Diego flight, I'm on JetBlue, right? My flight out to San Diego to upgrade to Mint across the country. And, you know, the mint experience is lovely. Nice full meal, lay down bed, the whole thing. 300 bucks to upgrade across the country on JetBlue. On my return. But only if you're in a certain thing. Only if you're on a certain class. If you do the Schmageggy Fair, which I oftentimes do, the upgrade is not available. Oh, no, no. The Schmageggy Fair does not allow you. He doesn't even give himself the upgrade. The option. Yeah, yeah. No, no.

15:41This is starting from like, this is just, if you get the basic, no, you can't upgrade. If you get the one above that, you can upgrade. But then hear me out. But SGG, to the point of how it's nonsense, because I've been looking at these flights for months, right? Even as of two months ago, the return from San Diego, the mint is like$2 ,000. Like they're just completely – they set a market that they feel like setting and however they mess with people. So Dip is right that sometimes it could be$250, six months in advance and$250 the day you fly. But to your point, SGG, particularly if you're flying in the toilet.

16:17Now, we are going to take our first break. And when we come back, jump right into Monday Night Raw. We got to break down what we saw, what our thoughts were on the scene of it. We're down to two dates. We know what at least one of them is. We have updates on what is. Do we have a physical bracket? We will get into that. So there's a lot of different things to get into. Also, the Survivor Series card, a lot more full. We'll break that down as well. And very excited. SGG has a court case to get to later in the program, but Dip and I are going to sit and talk to the great Jackson Drake, the Evolve champion, get to know Jackson Drake a little bit.

16:53Very excited about that. Ahead of his NXT Gold Rush title defense against Shawn Legacy on Tuesday. So a whole lot more to do right here on GP Live on Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7. Promotional consideration paid for by the following. You may choose an Armitron watch for superb quality, design, and value. H2O Watch by Armitron The hottest fashion look for your wrist Armitron Welcome back to Cheap Heat Live Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7 Peter Rosenberg, Stack Eye, Greg Dipperstein Jackson Drake is going to join us Later on Very excited to have a real conversation with him And learn a little bit about him Drake has a match against Legacy on Tuesday at Gold Rush And Kendall Gray and Lainey Reed Have a title match at Gold Rush And I get to be in the booth with Vic and Booker T for the first time.

17:42I'm so excited about it. We don't have Evolve next week, the night before Thanksgiving. We are dark, so I hope you'll tune in to NXT Gold Rush, but I do think things are on the up and up these days for the Evolve brand, and it's a nice moment here on Gold Rush, so I'm super excited about that. SGJ, I feel like both Vanity Project and Candle Gray are getting a pretty big rub from NXT these days. As they should, honestly. I mean, Jackson Drake is the champion. glove swipe right so i think i think it's definitely worthwhile putting them on nxt especially on a program like this where they get to showcase not just their talents but the titles as well yeah why not and and and same thing with kendall who i think is on the verge of a a big moment but we'll get into more evolved stuff later when jackson drake joins but if you have you've never heard of the kid or or you've seen him wrestle but you haven't heard him you're going to want to listen in the in the bottom half of the second hour because because he's this this kid's pretty impressive for 22 years old man like we could be talking to a future very much something so we'll dig into that in hour two so i was at monday night raw um i got to tell you guys backstage at msg was an electric situation um a lot of people in the house we saw the whole controversy with the giants the new york giants being involved with the dominic um judgment day thing like dip were you aware that that was a controversy no i had no idea sg are you because in new york it was a big deal it i saw and i was just like i mean come on his foot is hurt not his hands the hands can still be thrown as long as he just doesn't pivot on that foot he can still throw the hands i didn't see an issue at all the dude cam scadaboo on is like become the new popular new york giant and dip he's out for the season with a really bad leg injury, lower leg injury.

19:33All of it got messed. The whole thing got turned around backwards. Nightmare situation. He had surgery three weeks ago, and he's the guy who did the pushing and shoving with the Judgment Day. Yeah. And so it became a great sport. I mean, back page of the Daily News on Tuesday was J.D. McDonough and Cam Scadaboo staring each other down. That was the back page of the paper in New York. I guess that's what they were going for. So they won. So so old school vibes of like wrestling being in the paper, which I thought was pretty cool. But yeah, a lot of people were upset that Scadaboo was involved in anything physical when he's injured.

20:14It's crazy when you bring up things like, and they happen, right? And they happen that moment. So you're bringing up Cam Scadaboo and JD McDonough. And in the same breath, I'm watching, I just throw on an old, I always throw on something on my TV while I'm doing the pod. To inspire. Yeah, I'm watching an episode of Superstars and Bam Bam just shoved Lawrence Taylor. Like right as you said that. How crazy is that? By the way, that is so, that is pretty, I mean, it's pretty funny. And let me tell you the best thing about Cam Scadaboo being near J.D. McDonough is for the first time in his career, J.D.

20:51McDonough was towering over someone. Yeah, I saw that. I was like, whoa. J.D. is – I mean Cam Scadaboo is like probably 5 '6". He's one of these guys who's just filled with piss and vinegar, all jacked up on Mountain Dew, like lunatic small dude. And it is an interesting moment. I wonder how planned out the physicality was. I don't know. I really can't call how planned out the physicality was. But I will say Scadaboo didn't really take anything. He just shoved McDonough. And JD took it like he... Yeah, and then Finn kind of came up and hit him, but it was such a nothing burger. The thing that irritated me the most, and not just because I don't like the man, but because it was stupid, was that at one point, this is very small, but I noticed it.

21:40I don't know if you caught this, SGG. If you go back and watch, it's a little bit weird how long their interaction goes on for. And I don't even know. Did they not show this all on TV? Maybe it's on the Twitter clip, like the social clips they put out. But Schultz actually pushes one of them. Yeah. Andrew Schultz, like, pushes Finn or J.D. And I'm like, that could not have been planned. I will say this. That could not have been planned. No, don't shrug. They would never say, hey, skinny comedian who can't beat up anyone, push one of our heels. That would never be in the plan. Because... Justin Ballard is a professional enough to know not to punch it in the face.

22:21God, sometimes you wear such a mark. I've seen skinny people who couldn't beat up anyone do a lot of damage on WWE TV. And not even just WWE. I feel like the only celebrity who actually went in and got his ass kicked was Will Sasso. But everybody else, whether it was believable or not... Yeah, but they usually have an impetus for it, and it's not just going to be that they're going to do it and the heel is just going to stand there like confused. You know what I'm saying? Like it's happening in a crescendo to a moment where either their back is covered because someone else is stronger is there or the heel is not paying attention.

22:55There has to be – not just that Andrew Schultz stares a heel in the face and gives him a push and the heel is like, oh, I don't know what to do. I was shoved by Andrew Schultz. That's not what we want. Right. That's not what we're doing with the business here, folks. We're having fun. But like that, that's not what you're supposed to do. I mean, trust me, I say that as someone who literally when I'm when I'm doing anything with heels on TV, I literally have to job out to them in every moment that I interact with them. All I do is put my head down and look like a sheepish scared bitch. Now, it's easy for me to do that.

23:27I don't have to work that hard. You know, the acting job isn't that deep. But you know what I'm saying? It is. I am very mindful of it because we care about these things. Don't sell yourself short. What are you talking about? The acting is incredible. It's Academy Award worthy. What I'm saying is very often, how much am I acting? When like, you know, when Braun Breaker is standing behind me, staring at me, pushing me in the back, and I'm just staring straight ahead like I'm scared, how much am I acting? I think there's a possibility that you could maybe cook his ass. All right. So what do we think, guys?

24:05it was the third to last it was his final raw it was his final time at msg how did you feel about the the john cena appearance in general sg were you satisfied with it disappointed just your your take i was satisfied with it believe it or not i mean i'm i could have been a one-on-one match um but i like the fact that at least with this dominic mysterio john cena thing we have a story They planted seeds for Dom and Rey's story to continue also And then he just got to go out there And play the hits I don't even know if he stayed for the show He opened the show, did his thing Hit the five-knuckle shuffle I like that Sheamus made sure that he was in the center When everybody did everybody's moves Take his title And then he's on to Survivor Series I'm okay with that I like that Rey Mysterio had the You Can't See Me patch on his tights and on the mask.

25:01I thought it was a nice little tribute to John Cena. Dip, what were your thoughts?

25:10I mean, I don't know. I feel like I don't want to bash the ending here. It's become finally something that everyone is freaking out about. I think you sort of overstated it a little bit whenever you were. I don't know. You know who totally overstated? It's Sam Roberts. We're going to get the scam Roberts when we talk about that. Wait, wait. You're confusing me and Sam. You're confusing me and Sam, the bald head and the beard thing. I get it. Yeah, right. What did Sam say? Yeah, Paul Rosenberg. Right. You know me. I manage Eminem, and I'm also Sam Roberts. By the way. And I'm Ebro. bro say that you're so many people dude i'm sam i'm ebro i'm paul rosenberg i'm just not me i'm not me i don't do maybe if i did more things maybe if i found a way to reach people in more places one more job one more job no but what did say what did sam say what did what did shill robert say i want to know he just was going crazy about how it's just it's built to this thing that is that the crowd is going berserk and it's the biggest pops he's ever heard and i never oh it's like he's getting finally getting the credit whatever and i'm just like yeah yeah i just you know wish he would have stayed heel that's sort of that's where i'm at well because you're because you're so unsatisfied with the way that he turned face so yes yes but remember he had not Turned heel.

26:49Yeah, or there's that. Or there's that. If he would have never turned heel, also fine. Also better than what happened. Well, you have to remember that. God bless Sam, but God bless Sam. But he is the same person who the day after the out-of-nowhere face turn of, I changed my mind, I'm back to being good again. I sat next to Sam, and he told me how great it was. And he was able to translate to me in the moment how everything he said meant something else. And it was actually awesome. And Sam's so good at doing it that I actually sat there and was like, wow, he's right. And then 10 minutes later, I thought about it.

27:27I was like, what the hell was I thinking? He wasn't right. I don't understand. I don't understand that. Can you rationalize that for me? What I'm trying to say is Sam intellectualizes every word said in wrestling so much that he can find a breakdown where he's like, do you see when he said blank, what he meant was – there are people who do this with hip-hop lyrics too. They like will break down a bar so many ways that you're like, yeah, that Kendrick song is cool. It's not my favorite Kendrick song. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen to this plus this plus this. and i'm like yeah but when i'm listening in the car that's not how it hits me i i'm not stopping and pausing and hearing every word i'm taking in the art as a whole and i didn't get that go ahead i'll tell you the funniest part about that which which breaks down like how fraudulent it actually all is so royal rumble right john cena gets eliminated last loses to jay uso yes then he goes to the press conference and he says I'm going to be in the Elimination Chamber.

28:34I'm gonna win it and then the job is to find five people who can stop me. I'm going to WrestleMania. I deserve this. Blah blah blah. I told you guys this on the podcast but I also texted Sam and I'm like John Cena's turning heel. He never cut a promo this heelish before and Sam was like fuck out of here basically is what he told me. He intellectualizes so much and he got he he did not believe that john cena could possibly turn heel wait really you never told us this before you and sam had a conversation because i remember you told us you you were the first person who said to me well uh yeah i think i had a conversation that night in the building with you with with maybe tess and big e where we were kind of analyzing what he did but then you texted me i think that night maybe and we're like that was a heel promo you're saying you brought that concept to sam and sam's didn't see it he he flat out rejected it he's like nobody's booing cena it's not gonna happen pipe dream then the next time we see cena he turns heel i said the same thing if you recall i i i wanted it so bad and said it's never gonna happen you did oh i know i'm you you i certainly remember that well listen so to back to the monday night um i think the truth is somewhere in the middle i don't think it was like the most epic incredible reception we've ever seen i will say being in there man like i was up in a suite it was awesome like it was very loud it was very intense and then i really i really liked the seamus mysterio thing because seamus and mysterio along with like you know batista and Cena are the baby face faces of an entire era.

30:25Like, you know, they were a very big part of that era. And so I was, Cena was yet to interact in a real way with Sheamus and Mysterio. So it was fun to see them. Although like, you can't help but think, and listen, I'm not saying I'm not excited for Cena Dominic because it is going to be fun, but they did already have a match. Should Cena just be leading like an all-star baby face Survivor Series team? Yes, of course. Of course. I don't know that we needed to have the title exchange. We could have had the Judgment Day get involved with the Cena-Dominic match so Dominic wins, unless they really cared about giving Cena the IC title, to which I say, who cares?

31:09But if the Judgment Day screwed Cena in a match against Dominic, and then Mysterio and Sheamus came out, you could have then just had a nice traditional Survivor Series match of Judgment Day and heels versus Cena and baby faces. Let's have some fun. Old school, baby. Here's the biggest sort of meta problem that I have with the Cena this year is that it started out in a way where the whole thing was based in storyline. It still was like, I'm turning heel and I'm leaving and you didn't appreciate me and whatever. But the whole thing is just I'm leaving. That's the story. The run should have ignored for a year that he was leaving.

31:49And then in the last month or so, then it becomes a thing that like this is the end. That's a good point. Interesting take. But like it should just be a great – we should have just put him in a great story that, you know, if you wanted to put over Braun Breaker as the next big star or you wanted to put over Dom as the next big star or whatever, maybe he has like some six-month incredible feud with one of these people to make them the star that they are going to – that we're perceiving them to eventually be. So but instead, it's like they made it. How many match five matches left? Six matches of five.

32:20It's like it's like, you know, like, OK, you know, that's as opposed to some of your regular nebbishy complaining. That was a very well put together breakdown of the problem, perhaps that the story by the story only being that he's leaving. It limited its ability to be about anything else. it's just a story about and and it's interesting because we talked about the flair thing a lot the flair story wasn't about him deciding to retire it was about retirement hanging over his head if he lost different thing totally right different thing it was kayfabe it was in story it was it wasn't an actual i'm but like this is to me and dip when you and i get into arguments about Cena and his level of greatness, and we will not argue about that he's one of the all-time greatest, whether you have him at 2, 5, 10, he's a top 10 greatest to ever do it, no problem.

33:23The reason we get into the arguing about whether it's Mount Rushmore or just outside of it or whatever it is, is I do think some of the things that he's done in these big moments have ended up feeling sort of formulaic, and that has always been what people's complaints were all the way back to the prime, prime, prime of his career was that they knew in the moment what was going to happen. SGG. Yeah, I have to ask you then, Pia, to put you in the hot seat. And forgive me if I misinterpreted what I saw, but didn't you say this week that there's no question that Cena is the GOAT? Yeah, but I... Is there a video of you following on the...

34:01Sure, sure, there's a video, but I posted. I don't know, Peter doesn't believe that, though. I said, but I was using GOAT in sort of the new Gen Z way. Oh, okay. Like he's a goat. And you have every right to see him and be like, oh, man, the goat. And you're not being silly, but also literally the goat. No, not literally the goat. Okay, okay. The word goat has become an adjective and not a noun. Yeah. Or certainly not like a super pronounced noun. Not a title. Not a title. The only actual goats that exist to me are essentially Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, where when people say it, they mean it.

34:39It's like, oh, no, that's the GOAT. And actually, most people believe they're literally the greatest to ever do what they did. Most everyone else, it's like, well, they could be in the conversation. You know what I'm saying? You would call Kobe the GOAT. You would call LeBron the GOAT. You could call this one the Tiger the GOAT, but Jack Nicklaus is still there. They're like, oh, there's very few times when it's definitive. And in wrestling, when you really get into who is the absolute GOAT, that's really really hard and that's why i like kind of airing on flair but it's still really really hard to say because it's i don't know the whole the whole the whole thing of calling cena the literally announcing him as the greatest of all time right telling us over and over that he's the greatest of all time it's a great way to sell tickets like i'm i'm you know you're like you're this generation is seeing the greatest of all time for the last time this generation is seeing the great if you're going to a wrestling show you're seeing the greatest of all time i understand it as a sales tool but it's like in a you know i i mean how do you think rick flair here feels when he hears like i mean i i guess he knows it's all it's a work yeah he knows he knows he knows it's a work and he's always flair flair has always been pretty generous about calling other people great you're right i don't know about always sorry let me not say always in his old age He's been that way.

36:05You're right. How do you think Austin feels about it? I don't think he cares. I think Austin sees his pile of money still backing up. I know when you're at that level. When you're for Clarence, don't call Steve Austin and The Rock or whatever. It's a work, brother. Yeah, exactly. And I think I always think Austin in the back of his mind knows, with the exception of Hogan, he could always go, never get in a pop like me, brother. He knows that. Like, he knows in his mind. the glass break was different than anything else that's the thing right do they care about the pop necessarily or is it really like they are so business-minded that it's just dollars about the checks well and that's an interesting and that is an interesting question do we care about the pop because we can measure that but do they give a damn about pop as long as not only do we measure it not only do we measure it but the pop is what gives us the feels right i i rate them on the pop because the pop is what gives me the feel.

37:02It's like when you're in the building and you hear that moment, those are the moments you live for. And I think one of the reasons I've probably always pushed against the Cena goat thing, even though I love him and I think he's amazing and he's what brought me back into pro wrestling, all of these things I feel really strongly about. But I also was in the building countless times where when his music hits and it's always a mix of cheers and boos, which to me, everyone can say, well, that just means everybody cares. Okay, cool. But from a feels moment, what feels the best in wrestling is when everyone in the crowd reacts the same way.

37:38That, to me, is when something truly hits. The reason that Dominic boos are hitting so hard is everyone does it. Everyone wants to play the game of booing Dominic. Of course, everybody actually loves him. But he's so good at being a heel that you're not even going to cheer him because it's disrespectful. respectful you're booing him because he's doing such a good job and the respect boo the respect boo it's the respect boo like i haven't even seen it that's why we love wrestling that's why we love it because they're at i mean the respect boo is is a perfect microcosm of wrestling society it really is it's the whole thing it's the whole thing you got to boo him i used to always get like you know in the early 2000s when smart fans were becoming a really big thing and now you can trace it even further back like I'm sure you guys notice sometimes you could go back to the 80s and you'll watch like late 80s stuff and you'll see the 20 something dudes in the crowd who are cheering the heels like you can notice them now and you're like oh yeah those were the kids who know it's a work and they're into it and they're cheering for the bad guys but for the most part what made the 80s so special was it was completely just you booed the bad guys you cheered the good guys Cena is really in that way different than anyone to have been the top guy and had that level of split reaction.

38:58I'll also contradict everything that I'm saying, though, and that I will say the height of extremely loud let's go Cena, Cena sucks is compelling. When it got to that level where it was truly a fight between fans of do you love him or hate him, whether it was intentional or not, because I think that's up in the air. I don't think that was intentional. You landed on Mario Battle. you landed on my rebuttal too is that like yes when the glass broke everybody was into a stone cold and when you know that guitar riff everybody was into hogan but then there were points in the match where like it dipped and then it rose and then when he hit that stunner of course at the end you got that pop but with cena that split reaction when it hit whatever that peak was it stayed there from when he got to the ring and then the bell rung and then they touched and then while they're going through every move and he hits his five moves of doom that let's go cena cena sucks split reaction stayed the whole time there was never a point where the crowd gave it a rest and then they went back up no or then or then decided to cheer at the end even though they booed him or they still they still were booing at the end yeah they wrote it through the whole way let me say Another point here.

40:18The most unsung hero of what we're talking about are the people that create the theme songs. I mean, like Cena's theme song is a huge part of why he is on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling, in my opinion. He evokes Cena's theme song, if it sucked and didn't have the pop that it has with the crowd. we could be talking about a different guy 100 % actually you know what good question where the John Cena theme song ranks among all time theme songs is a very interesting conversation also I want to get to Nikki Bella and Stephanie Vaqueror and also we have limited time for your phone calls since Jackson Drake is stepping in around 120 so we only have until about 115 to potentially take phone calls from anyone and we love talking to the Cheap Heat universe 877-344-4893 to weigh in on any of the cena stuff including where does that theme song rank among the all-time greatest uh produced by jake one of course featuring his his cousin trademark what what an interesting thing to like you're on this song that plays on national tv like constantly for 20 years and it's also interesting that this guy is cena has evolved and change so much as a person, but his entrance song is still him rapping.

41:43Yeah, he won't rap now. Like if you ask him to freestyle, he won't do it. By the way, I listened to the album this week, almost the whole thing. I've never done it in my life. The album You Can't See Me is significantly better than it has any business being. It's not horrible. Like it's I'm not saying it's like certainly it's not complex, but like for the time in which it existed in 2005, he is absolutely serviceable as a rapper. I remember him being nice, though, because I remember like the word life and he would freestyle this his opponents and like. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe my standards were just low as hell back then, but I remember him being nice.

42:31no it's just that the times change you know and and so like what you considered nice at that time is probably not exactly what you'd consider nice necessarily and maybe it was a lower bar for a wrestler like him achieving the level like nice was a different standard like bell curve maybe i don't know but i remember being like oh cena like i wanted to see jay-z i'm gonna tell you something this one right here i found i heard this for the first time this week pardon me doing this bootleg guys but this is how i do this right here flow easy

43:16i mean listen that's bumpy nox he's allowed to say for the hood sg you know i'm saying

43:32there's good records on here i mean that's that's freddy fox rapping not john cena but like i always loved the fact that beat though that yeah me too i always loved the fact that freddy fox was like a i mean i'm talking about freddy fox is a classically underground rapper like classic like Like, my guess would be that neither of you know anything about him except if you saw that a guy named Bumpy Knuckles was featured on John Cena's album. Like, he's truly underground. Bumpy Knuckles feels like the nickname Trump gives somebody.

44:05By the way, based on his hand issues, it could be a nickname for himself. We love Bumpy Knuckles. Black and Blue Knuckles should be Trump's nickname. But Bumpy was a really legit hardcore underground rapper, also one of the most terrifying, intimidating rappers who's ever lived. So for him to be with Cena was such an interesting fit. And Ebro always tells me the story of Cena coming to Hot 97 with Bumpy Knuckles in 2004. They did promo together. They were out on the road doing promo. It's a really epic time. Oh, because you weren't there yet, right? No, it's right before I got there. By the time I totally forgot about this at this point, I totally I don't even I barely know what you're talking about right now, to be honest.

44:48What do you mean? You know, he had a rap career or an album. He performed the album on Raw. That's the other thing that made me a Cina fan of like you watch Monday Night Raw. He's out like he got the DJ, the turntable. No, I got it. And then the turntables have to get destroyed, obviously. Yeah, you have to have someone destroy the turntables. but no it's just it's just it truly is one of the endearing things about cena to me and i interviewed him and maybe i'll put it out again i interviewed him backstage at jimmy fallon one time and he basically told me he wasn't really into hip-hop that much anymore like every once in a while i listen to classics but he become more of a country guy and his older as he got older like like like slow ballady kind of country um but like still had love for the old school whatever but the The fact that he was that much of a guy when it came to hip hop and would would bring in Bumpy Nucks to me is just such a cool piece.

45:46All right. So we don't have much in this hour. So we'll get more into the Nikki and Stephanie thing. I want to talk about Becky. We need justice for Becky Lynch. Justice for Becky Lynch. You're talking about the former Intercontinental champion. Still still my champion. No disrespect to Maxine, but I mean. Still my still your champion. Yeah, because I'm. I'm personally, and we'll get into it on the other side, but I'm really glad that Nikki turned heel. I am. Me too. I'm a little annoyed that it had to happen, but it did. And I'm glad that since it had to happen, they made the right choice. Now, the question is, what will they do with that?

46:31And that's something we'll get into later as the show goes on. so hour two coming up we're going to talk to you guys we'll get to vincent we'll get to johnny get to our other callers um and i look forward to talking to all of you at 877-344-4893 and then of course we'll also as mentioned earlier talk to jackson drake the evolved champion who's defending tuesday at nxt gold rush all coming up in hour two of cheap heat live on pro wrestling nation 24 7 So shut up! So shut up! Make your new boy! Slam! Promotional consideration paid for by the following. It's here. You can't see me. The ultimate hip-hop experience is selling out in stores everywhere.

47:14With 17 original easy-flowing tracks written by the champ himself. Including the hit single, Bad Bad Man. The champ is here. John Cena's You Can't See Me. In stores now. You can't see me. Welcome back to Cheap Heat Live, Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7. Guys, you can catch us on social, all right? Cheap Heat Pod on Instagram. Cheap Heat Live on Patreon. And we're doing a Patreon tomorrow. Actually, did you say you were down too? You're down too, right? Yeah, what time? We'll figure it out. Middle of the day. I'm thinking middle of the day sometime. And we'll do it live for our highest level, the Egg Everythings.

47:49We'll do it live with them. And then we'll drop it later for the other tiers. But if you're not a patron, we do lots of fun stuff tomorrow. We're going to watch some more games. We're going to talk some full gear, AEW as well. So we'll do a bunch of stuff tomorrow on Patreon, and we'd love to have you hang out. Go to Cheap Heat Live on Patreon. And, of course, I just saw there are people who found out just now that our episodes always air on YouTube as well, but you can always find these episodes in full on the Rosenberg Wrestling YouTube channel as well. So we were going to the break, and I mentioned the Nikki Bella of it all.

48:20I think I mentioned this a couple weeks ago. So it annoys me that fans boo Nikki Bella when she was supposed to be a good guy. Like that did irritate me. I find it weird and sort of hypocritical of the like seemingly progressive wrestling audience that they like boo this person who I think SGD the reason they boo her is because they sort of associate her with the Divas era. and rather than show her love because she fought through it and is still here and doing cool things and wants to be here in this era rather than like showing her respect for getting through it it's almost like they punish her for being associated with it and i i don't i don't get it i just don't get it no you do get it that's exactly what they're doing um and you just don't agree with it you're not you're not we're not riding with that and that but it's it's silly to me because i think that because they saddled her with like this divas era title and they see her as somebody like that they miss the fact that she actually is talented in the ring that that you know they don't appreciate her style of wrestling because it's not what they value or like the type of wrestling that people put on the pedestal but nikki bella she's talented and she definitely deserves more respect as as one of the veterans here here's the here's my perspective on this i think you're both wrong and the reason that she's i think the reason that she's booed is because they don't write good enough lines for her to say and i think that and i think that her voice is is soft and has a cadence to it that does not if she's not saying the right thing that is cutting enough or whatever enough aggressive enough it makes it sound like really soft and week.

50:08No, I think that's a cop out. I think that's a cop out. I think they booed. I think they did not seem into her from the second her music hit the first time when she came back. They've never sold it enough. That's also true. But if she had better lines written for her and she could really project like just like a little stronger with with, you know, delivering the lines, if they were good lines, I feel like the whole thing would turn around. I really I really believe that i i really believe that i think the way that that like the stuff that they give her to say and the way she says it is not effective enough that's that's a fair argument you're totally entitled to your opinion i i'm i i hear it it's not an unreasonable argument i just think people hate on her and i think they're ready to boo her and so now you turn her it's all it's the mic thing uh that's my i i don't i don't i don't fully agree i think that's i love the bell twins i like them i i mean they excite me when they come out especially nikki i've always been a nikki Bella fan.

51:03I think she is good in the ring and I think she's awesome to see on TV. I'm loving. But before AJ ever cut her promo and AJ cut a great promo, but before AJ ever cut her promo, this generation decided they love AJ. They decided she embodies a thing that they value and they, because she's honest about her struggles and she's very vulnerable. And by the way, kudos to her. I'm giving her props for that. But they decided that's something they value. Nikki has been really open and forthright about her life too she's just less relatable to people because she's a Bella twin and so they decided to sort of be like you were always the cool girl whereas the AJ brand is I wasn't the cool girl I was the nerd like you and Nikki Bella was like no you were sexy you're on TV you're this you're that but really Nikki was quite honest and revealing with her entire personal life as well and has been through a lot of stuff and also helped walk so AJ Lee could run.

52:02And yet this crowd decided they weren't interested. Now her as a heel is an interesting opportunity. And I really think that if done the right way, Nikki could be an important piece of sort of like messing with all the young baby faces in the company. She could be really good at that. Like, especially if the crowd's already apt to boo her. she looks physically stronger than a lot of the division not all of it but a lot of it i think there's a really big opportunity here and i hope they let her cook um and can i add to p something you said that i want to touch back on nikki has been vulnerable about like her personal life and like yo she was on total divas they spun it off into total bellas she put it all out there and the fans didn't respond to it at all in the same way as they responded to AJ Lee and other people putting their struggles out there right AJ Lee talked about her mental health issues the fans embraced it they championed her for it Nikki Bella's stuff became fodder they chanted John Cena left you at her and the last two shows in Boston and MSG even though that's factually inaccurate they when she came back they said she came back because she needed to pay her bills and They reference her divorce and everything like that.

53:20So it's like Nikki Bella. I hear what Dip is saying about the writing and her presentation, but the more she opens up, the more people use it against her. And so that's why I'm not necessarily buying that. That is what it is that the fans are critiquing her art. It is. It is her. It is an interesting opinion though, because, because people find certain characters more relatable, they empathize and they show them love because someone seems different than them they will bully them and literally yell mean things at them when like everyone it's it's which is like pretty foul like i gotta tell you man nikki bella is is a she is a tough she is a tough tough person who's been through her share and fought through it and by the way doesn't need to come back like you know nikki nikki lives a nice life she gets tv gigs constantly she's always got a different hosting gig there's always something for nikki bella to do her and breeze podcast as well um and yet she wanted to be here again and i hope we get to see some cool stuff with her we're taking a break um sgg have a wonderful weekend sg stepping out jackson drake on the show next stay tuned a lot more to do on cheap heat live promotional consideration paid for by the following get ready for the ride of your life in total recall the nes game based on the schwarzenegger blockbuster movie defeat the marshall mutants secret agents and more from acclaimed ladies and gentlemen welcome back to cheap heat live on pro wrestling nation 24 7 uh peter rosenberg dipperstein is here stack guy greg tapped out for a second and we bring in someone we've been trying to lock down on the show this man's very hard to get time with okay because there's responsibility that comes with that title around your waist he is the evolve champion the evolve i'm sorry the inaugural wwe evolve champion as you see the title next to him if you're watching us on YouTube the Carolina Reaper heartbreak Drake Jackson Drake welcome to cheap heat buddy how are you I'm doing great and let me just say a sick podcast name but there's no such thing as cheap heat any heat is good heat see see that's that's why let the Carolina Reaper tell you that's why it's working out so far dude now by the way the reason we chose now to have Jackson Drake on the show is because there's actually no evolve next week but next tuesday night jackson drake will be defending the evolved championship against super sean legacy on nxt gold rush week two uh kendall gray is defending the women's championship against laney reed it's going to be a happening and you're going to enjoy it um let me ask you first and foremost how are you feeling about the prospect of these bigger shows the nxt shows madison square garden theater like are does this is this stuff nerve-wracking for you at all at this stage of your career or are you comfortable with all of it?

56:08Oh, absolutely. Dude, anything and everything is nerve wracking to me still because I love wrestling so much. I want everything to be perfect. If I think there's one microscopic thing wrong with anything I do, I want to put my hand through the screen or whatever I'm watching myself on. Honestly, dude, I'm not even sure there's anything you or I could say to capture the magnitude of the situation. I'm walking into Madison Square Garden as the first ever WWE Evolve champion. And by God, I swear I will walk out of Madison Square Garden NXT Gold Rush as the Evolve champion. So let's tell people a little bit of the story.

56:46Like, Dip, I don't know how much you know about Heartbreak Drake's story, but you've been doing this. How old are you again? 23? I'm 22 years old. 22 years old? I'm pushing 30, dude. What, pushing 30? Well, in reality, but you've put some miles on that 22-year-old body. How long have you been doing this? When did you first get in the ring? That's what I'm saying. I always say I'm a very old 22-year-old. I started professional wrestling. I started training in December of 2016, had my first match in June of 2017. I was 13.

57:19That's bar mitzvah age. Peter and I were getting bar mitzvahed at 13. I never had one of those. Yeah, Dip had a wrestling-themed bar mitzvah that was pretty lit at 13 years old. So wait, so this is in what part? This is in Raleigh, North Carolina? This is in Greensboro, North Carolina. The ass crack of Raleigh and Charlotte is like, right in the middle. And by the way, true, but listen, say what you will about Greensboro. True wrestling country to be from Greensboro, North Carolina. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, you're from the thick of it. So how does this happen? how does one at 13 years old start training to become a pro wrestler dude yeah i'll break down the lore for you so uh my dad had bought me and him tickets to monday night raw in greensboro when i was 13 before we went to raw he took me to wendy's to get some food and we were going through the drive-thru i had my face painted like the ultimate warrior she recognized my face paint and she was like oh you're going to you're going to monday night raw aren't you and we were like yeah so she said i actually happen to know an independent pro wrestler by the name of lebron cozone if you want i can uh i can call him and you guys can come back to this this spot after the show when you can meet him talk to him and all that and so we did that raw was lit went back to wendy's and sure do you remember do you remember any of the matches from that from that faithful Raw?

58:46Hell no. I'm afraid not. Okay. Do you remember anyone who was on it? Was Cena on this Raw? Do you remember if any of the big names were on it? Very important. This was my first time I ever got to sit front row at a WWE event and I got to high-five Dolph Ziggler and John Cena. Those were the first two wrestlers I ever didn't wash my hands for like a month after that. By the way, in 2016, front row Greensboro to see Raw, tickets were still like$39. Like relative to that. A little more than 39. No, no, no, no. Realistically in that era,$300, whereas right now it would be$3 ,000. So you go to the house show or do you make signs?

59:30No, no, raw, raw, not a house show. You go to raw. Do you make signs for the raw? Are you making signs? Like are you – how deep are you at that point? I'm deep enough to paint my face and all that. Okay, so you basically painted at the event. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But hold on, this was your first, this was, you said this is your first time front row. You'd been to other shows just in worse seats. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. My dad took me to other shows, but this was my first front row experience. All right. So let's just, let's just be clear before to start the story even further back. So your dad is a big fan.

1:00:01No, actually, he's just super supportive and he, he took it upon himself to educate himself about WWE. I told, you know, I got into wrestling when I was about seven years old and I told my parents, yo, I want to be a wrestler when I grow up. And I was seven. So like they took it with a grain of salt. Like, okay, he's, he's just a kid still maybe he didn't, you know, but as the years went on, the, the bug just never, never left me. Um, so, so, so then, so then jumping back, you go to the raw after the raw, you go back to the Wendy's, go back to the Wendy's and LeBron Cozone, the ring warrior. He's there waiting for me and my dad.

1:00:41And we talked about training. Like I said, I was 13 at the time. So he was like, yeah, I'm not going to lie. You're, you're, you're a little bit young to start training. Come back to me when, uh, when you're 16 or something like that. But my dad is a carpenter, a very good carpenter. And Cozone just so happened to be in need of some stuff being built like an entrance way, you know, other things like that at his wrestling school. So he was like, yo, if you can help me out, if you can build me some stuff, I'll let Jack get a head start and I'll let him start training Wow. And here we are. So LeBron Cozone was your first trainer?

1:01:19Yes, sir. And he's still going at it hard on the indie circuit, correct? Going at it hard. DPW national champion, criminally underrated. It's extremely unfortunate. Talk about aura. Talk about aura. As soon as he walks through the curtain, you just feel it. And I'm not just saying that because he's my, he's a father figure, not just saying that because he's a trainer. He's just the man. He's just the man. In a dream scenario, if things continue to unfold for you, you'd love to find a way to get to work more with LeBron Cozone. Absolutely. He trained me and Javon Evans. So that was my next question.

1:01:57So how long, how much, how much later do you meet Javon Evans? So I started training in December of 2016. Javon started training at Firestar I believe June or July of 2017 wow yes so you guys have a true origin story together oh yeah to say the least to say um what went through everything together um so what was it like watching him on Raw last week like do you have nerves when you watch Javon in big spots like that? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. You know, I think the first huge thing that he did that made me go, holy shit, I'm not sure how explicit I can be with my words on here. You're fine with that one.

1:02:42You're good. Yeah, you're good. Okay, okay. But they'd be happy, but the people at WWE would be happier if you learned to edit yourself. So that's a good start. Yeah, I just caught myself. You caught yourself. You caught yourself. Media trained already, folks. There you go. You're doing great. I got to work that filter muscle. You know what I'm saying? Um, but you know, my favorite wrestler is Randy Orton. Favorite of all time is Randy Orton and Javon was the first to wrestle him. So seeing that, that, you know, I was, I kind of had to live vicariously through that. I was stoked for him. I still am like that.

1:03:15That's incredible. My boy wrestled Randy Orton. And if he can, if he can do that, then who's to say I can't, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, to see him wrestle Gunther on raw, who's another, who's another favorite of mine. I, I, I, It's crazy. It's crazy. And I can't help but see myself in that position when I see my brother, the guy who I came up with in that position. So it's inspiring. It's motivating all that. this is so fast this i find this to be a fascinating story and i find your situation to be really interesting you know i i talk with dip sometimes after i get back from an evolved taping and just watching you know i'm only there for a limited time so i don't know all the things that are going on i'm just trying my best to like go through the notes to record three or four episodes at one time and you know at first it was about figuring out who the hell these people are And now that part's gotten easier, although there is an influx of new people.

1:04:11But thankfully, because of the Vanity Project and Callie Armstrong and Kendall and Wendy Chu, we've had some people who are like stalwarts at this point that we're building a little bit of some equity and a storyline with. But I find it fascinating that they've gone with you so hard. You know, like since the very beginning, you and Legacy in the men's division have been so critical. What is it about what you do that makes them trust you in this spot? What do you think they see in you the most that makes them say, let's make Jackson the first champion and let's keep having him as champion? Gee, I don't know.

1:04:55Let's go down the list. Future legend. first ever WWE Evolve champion, the best that North Carolina has to offer, the best Evolve has to offer, soon to be the best that WWE has to offer. Pete, come on. If you didn't already know the answer to this question, I wouldn't be on your show right now. Dr. Thirst takes the time to squeeze you into an appointment and you waste our time with a few questions like that. By the way, I'm sorry. By the way, I'm sorry. Where and when did Dr. Thirst show up? I only recently noticed the Dr. Thirst trunks. Where did Dr. Thirst come from? All right. okay so i pop by the way i'm on commentary and i say to stone live it didn't air yet but i say to sound like did his trunk say dr thirst so yeah take us through this please okay so i'm i'm a big fan of the howard stern show specifically old school howard stern wow all right talk about a few a few years ago like 20 years ago there was this character named sal and he was talking about his um sal govern alley the great sal govern alley sal govern alley yeah of course there's one episode where he talks about his um his adult film uh preferences and um let's just say it had to do with urination right okay and one of his favorite videos was called dr piss and i thought that was i thought that was hilarious and i was like you know what that's hilarious i'd be taking thirst traps all the time i'm gonna call myself dr thirst yeah i like it i totally i love this this is so hey listen the best rest of the characters uh are rooted from other forms of media so i'd say you know what i i you're not gonna hear a big argument from me on that i agree taking the right influences from other places and you twisted it because listen i'll be honest if i show up to if i'd shown up to evolve and your trunk said dr piss i would have been concerned but Dr.

1:06:49Thirst, I think we're having a conversation. For sure, for sure. How did you, why old school Howard Stern? Like we're on Sirius right now as we do the show. Was like your dad had Sirius in the car? Like what was the deal? Nah, man, I just, so my sense of humor is on the darker side and Howard Stern just happened to be, you know, that old school Howard Stern. I just resonated with it. I thought it was the funniest thing ever. And yeah. um yeah dude i so i have i with howard i always have these um my relationship goes in ebbs and flows like depending on like do i have a new car that has serious in it then i like resubscribe to it and i have it for years then i fall out so like i have like different years like you like you say old school i have different eras in which i was like fully engaged versus less engaged but No, he's an all-time goat, dude.

1:07:43Most F. Yeah, he's a massive influence for sure. So we've touched on the fact that this Tuesday night's a big one. You also, of course, will be with The Vanity Project, Brad Bailer and Ricky Smokes. Where did that relationship begin? I really have no idea. You guys were on the first stuff that we ever saw from Evolve. actually I don't remember if you were with them in the audition tape that I saw or if it was just them in a tag match without you and Zeta I don't remember uh but what's what's the origin story of you guys and Vanity Project yeah so we actually met through the WWE ID program which became a thing in October November of last year and the first time we all went to Florida together obviously we did that did those audition tapes and that's when we met you know we kind of clicked off the bat.

1:08:38But, you know, my character at the time, I was really just kind of a hothead, angry kid wanting to whoop some ass, swipe right. Their gimmick is that they bang girls. So I was at the beginning, I was like, how is how are we going to on screen? Are we going to have any chemistry together? Like, how is that going to develop? You know, but whoever set that up, man, they just they had tunnel vision because that first real Evolve taping, you know, obviously you you and I both were there for that we ended up in the six-man tag match it was us three against sean legacy cappuccino jones and jack cartwheel and off the bat we knew we had something there there was definitely something there and we just kept building on it eventually we added zeta we added bryce and then we had the vanity project and now those are my boys i talk to them every single day and uh history makers we're walking into msg together you know it's crazy it's crazy how much like the the and this is one of the things i don't know if you're like this way about why you were interested in pro wrestling but one of the reasons i think dip and i and sgg the reason we love pro wrestling is some of the things like the art imitating life and life imitating art like isn't it funny how like you guys are tag team partners on the air or you know members of a faction on the air but then in real life it starts to completely replicate that and it becomes your like these dudes who were just dudes you got set up with through the id program they really do become your brothers like as a result of doing it for sure it's it's easy to build a brotherhood when you have the same goal when you want to end up in the same place you know you got similar motivations.

1:10:21So far, what's been the best moment you've had in Evolve, and what's been the biggest challenge thus far?

1:10:32Dude, I still, every time I'm in the PC for an Evolve taping, I have to pinch myself just being there. You know, the pressure never, it never gets smaller. If anything, it gets bigger as you go on. Just, I think... I think I'm a perfectionist, so I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. I get in my head. You know, the biggest challenge for me personally is just having to remind myself, like, if I weren't capable of putting on, I wouldn't be in the position I'm in. So just reminding myself to stay in that headspace, like, you got this. You wouldn't be here if you didn't. uh that's it's i love hearing you say that by the way about like the moment because you are one of the people who i can sense like on show days is is very focused you know what i mean like not to say you're like not to say like you're never loose but you certainly become different when the show's over than you are before the show begins you know what i mean and a lot of times you guys have multiple things because you guys have been so prevalent on the show you're the champion for example if there's three shows in a day you're likely on at least two of those shows so how do you go about just remembering everything you're you're going to do i mean i know you i know you guys aren't working through everything but also like none of you are that experienced you may be on the more experienced side because of just how long you've been doing it but still how much has to go into just remembering i'm cutting a promo here i have this match then i get involved in there match what's what's the process to just making sure you can keep track of everything dude you you just gotta lock in i you know my coping mechanism involves popping a caffeine drink popping uh popping a lip pillow and and just locking in just locking in you know going over everything making sure i know where to be when i need to be there what to say when i need to say it, the delivery, the cadence.

1:12:34It's kind of like homework, you know, back in school when you'd have homework, but like you actually enjoy it. You know, this is what I've always wanted, and I know I'm there to make an impression. Is it as fun as you dreamed it would be? Like, is the time in the ring and all of it as so far as fun as 13-year-old you hoped it would be? it's everything I ever dreamed of and then some I love it because like I said there's so much pressure so like obviously it's fun but it's it's stressful you know it's the nerves are absolutely insane uh going into it but once I once I've wrapped up and I'm done with it I'm I'm really proud of myself you know what I'm saying like I'm happy for myself but I'm I'm very proud of myself Like, damn, I did that.

1:13:27I handled it. They gave me all this. They put everything on my plate and I ate it up. Who have you marked out for the most so far that you've gotten to meet? So Pete Dunn has produced a few of my matches. He's a chiller. He's a chiller. Love that guy. Coach Corey Weston, also known as Wesley Blake. He's another chiller. Love that guy. Yeah, these guys who I grew up watching. uh they they produced my matches and i'll never forget i will never forget my whole life after i won the evolved championship i come to the back i go to gorilla hbk himself gets up walks over to me shakes my hand says congratulations young man never forget that never forget that hbk heartbreak kid himself also greenlit me to be called heartbreak drake which is my biggest flex probably always will be.

1:14:21How did you handle that? Did you directly ask? No, I just pitched it. I think somebody was like, yeah, we need more nicknames for you. Carolina Reaper, you got that, but what else kill me? I'm going to swipe right. We're Lady Killers. Heartbreak Drake. It's a bar. It is a confirmed bar. By the way, I love Carolina Reaper from the first time I heard it was one of my favorite nicknames in wrestling. It's, it's fantastic. All right, dip. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, like you're talking about HBK, your nostalgia, like if you're like, and you were talking about homework, if you are like at home on a Sunday, you have nothing to do and you turn on peacock or you're about to go to sleep or whatever.

1:15:04And you want to turn on wrestling. Like, what do you go to great question in history? You have the entire archive of, of, of every organization and every event since the beginning of time. Like, what do you, what makes you the happiest and the most nostalgic? I'm going to go to the next question. Like what event and like what event and what matches, like what do you turn on? Sure. So I watch a little bit of everything, to be honest with you. Some weeks at the PC, they'll be teaching us specific things and they'll say, hey, go back and watch this guy or go back and watch matches from, you know, this era.

1:15:36Sometimes we're working on sometimes we're working on the old school feel. So I'll turn on some Buddy Rogers or some Nick Bockwinkle or something like that. um other times i like to kind of i like to kind of go back to what i grew up watching which is ray mysterio jeff hardy john cena dolph ziggler stuff like that um but specific uh you know for my own entertainment this is gonna sound weird but i really like i find humor and absurdity so like hbk specifically there's this one segment from like 1997 or something where uh Brett Hart, he's cutting that promo in the wheelchair. And Shawn Michaels has got his button-down shirt.

1:16:19And I think Raw went off the air when this happened. But HBK hits a super kick on Brett Hart. He starts unbutting his shirt, and he just starts dancing over him. That's the most disrespectful. He just knocked him out, and now he's hip-thrusting over him. It's absurd. It's crazy. I love it. You didn't do that, yes. There's no better than that. Is there a move, like a historical move, like snook off the cage or whatever? Is there something that you would, in the future, would you want to perfect or make your own? I know you do the moonsault or whatever, but is there something, you go back, you watch the old stuff.

1:17:02I'm going to do the best super kick. Shawn Michaels has the best super kick. Mine's going to be better. Eddie has the best frog splash. Dom's doing the frog splash. I'm going to do the best. I'm going to top it all. Like what's the move? Sure. So as of now, that would be my own finisher, which is called the unaliving. That sure is. Vicious running knee. As for something else that I would like to partake in and maybe become known for, I'm a huge fan of those crazy Shane McMahon bumps where he's just fallen off scaffolds, you know jumping off 100 foot tall steel cages crashing through these announce tables you know that's that's something i've always i've always been just you think you could do it you think you could do it the the most terrifying bumps you think you can handle it dude i'm i'll be real with you bro i'm i'm a masochist sound me up for stuff like that you're in sign me up for stuff what's the craziest thing you've ever done in the indies have you ever done anything super nuts on the indies super nuts on the end okay uh let's see i did like a little half-ass death match one time i had a light tube thrown right at my face and it knocked my tooth out um light tube to the face what'd you do what'd you do with the tooth i put it under my pillow and i and i got some bang from the tooth what do you think i did um nah i'm trying to think uh thumbtacks are fun thumbtacks are a good time wow it sounds like a great time i i peter i need you to throw me on thumbtacks at some point i want to see yeah no we'll work to see that maybe uh maybe maybe war games weekend after the show we'll get we'll go to the hotel lobby in san diego we'll lay out some thumbtacks and just do it can i just make sure i'm there for that yeah yeah no for sure invite me um i will yeah go ahead no please no i was gonna say uh there was this once there's this one thing that I did one time.

1:18:59And this one, I don't know if I'm going to do again. But I believe it was August of 2023. I had a match in Greensboro, my hometown, with Javon Evans before he got signed and another guy named TDT. We had a triple threat steel cage match. And I hit that Kurt Angle moonsault off the steel cage into the ring. You know, huge pop. How'd it go? It was fine? It was fine? Yeah, I didn't crap my pants. so it was and you landed where you felt like you needed to land you didn't like break javon's face or do anything like that like it landed okay oh unfortunately no no water in the pool tdt moved moved out of the way so i just i ate it but i was like i just ate it and i was like okay i'm not knocked out i don't gotta throw up or nothing i was just yeah i was just i was just happy i i lived through that and i could get up and walk afterwards um what what's the so far have you been Like, have you been backstage to a big show yet, like to a Raw or a PLA?

1:20:02So I actually did extra work at WrestleMania 40 in Philadelphia. Okay. I think I saw this online. Sure. Yeah. I was one of the swordsmen for Drew McIntyre. I believe I was actually like, I think I was the first or second person at the top of the ramp. What was that like? Was that day awesome? Oh my god, dude. Yeah. I mean, I was what, 21 years old, and I'm standing on the grandest stage of them all, WrestleMania. That was my WrestleMania debut. You know, I was super... Well, you'll be saying that when, right? Huh? You're talking about it 20 years from now, hopefully, and putting a circle around you in whatever footage they show.

1:20:49Yeah, absolutely. No, and like at the time, I was super uptight that, you know, Javon had gotten signed before me and done all this stuff before me. But after that, I was like, okay, if nothing else, I can always say I made my WrestleMania debut before Javon, if nothing else. Are you like sure? Do you guys know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you will like one day have a big storyline together? Is it like, and do you guys fantasy book it ever? Like what we're going to do when we have our thing? Oh, sure. I mean, the seed's already been planted. If you watch the episode where I won the Evolve championship, who gave it to me?

1:21:25Who handed it off to me? Javon sure did. Javon did, exactly. Yeah, it's just, there's too much history. You know, there's too much money on the table there for somebody to just leave it. You know, it's going to happen and it will be legendary. It'll be everything everybody expects it to be and more. How locked in is your family week to week with Evolve? Oh, extremely. Every time an Evolve episode airs, my dad texts me, just glazes the hell out of me. He says all these nice things. So, yeah, they're my biggest supporters, and that's what I'm most grateful for. You know, no matter what. Dude, I'm 22 years old, and my parents still wipe my ass for me.

1:22:09Right, 100%. Do everything for me but wet my ass for me, I should say. Are you still on the cell phone family plan? All right, all right. I mean, yeah. I'm 38 years old, so am I. Why are you going to bust my balls like that? I can relate to it. People still say, who's Mary Dipperstein when I call? I say, I've caught red-handed. You're on your mom's plan still? She takes money from me, but yeah, I'm on the plan. I know, I hear all about the plan. man, it doesn't matter how rich you are, Jackson Drake. Okay. No matter how rich you get, stay on the family plan. Listen, I'm on my mom's insurance till I'm 26.

1:22:47So I'm, I got four years. I'm chilling. By the way, that is, that's very great for a, for a young wrestler. Um, this has been super cool, man. I, you know, as much as we've gotten to enjoy you on TV and everybody I know who's watching evolve, you're obviously one of the first names people point out. So it's been very cool to like have a moment here for people to get to know you a little bit and hear your story, man. I cannot believe you're 22 years old. You certainly don't seem it in the ring. And we wish you the best of luck against Sean Legacy on Tuesday at Gold Rush. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you, man.

1:23:19I'll see you down the road. It's been an honor to be on the show. Thank you for having me. Of course, of course. All right, Dip and I will put a bow on this week's Cheap Heat next on Pro Wrestling Nation. Promotional consideration paid for by the following. Stalk chocolate to reason. If you like chocolate, then you'll love reason. Extra chewy chocolate caramels covered with a rich chocolate coating. Welcome back to Cheap Heat Live for Wrestling Nation 24-7. I got to tell you, Dip, I, I, I, SGG had to go to court and he missed out. I'm very impressed by young Jackson Drake. I think he's something plus.

1:23:57I got to tell you, not just something. I think there's a plus sign next to, next to his name. In all seriousness, I've only talked to him in short moments and watched him wrestle and do his work, of course. But for his biggest spotlight as an interview, he was just very, very good for a 22-year-old kid. That was very good. He's very polished. It's just so nice to see. I was just saying to Peter, I feel ancient next to a 22-year-old. But like it's nice to see that like there's a generation below us who really appreciates and loves wrestling and gets it and wants to – like obviously he's a wrestler and made it to the mountaintop of what his childhood dream was so far.

1:24:40But it's nice to like talk to a kid who's 22 and has the same passion for the business that we do. I know. I know. It's kind of cool. I'm like thank God. To think about – I mean think about it like this. this kid was born in 2003 that's so crazy okay so he's going to shows in 2010 11 not exactly the glory days of pro wrestling okay i mean listen there are some great wrestlers wrestling at that time obviously you have your senas and orton's and hardy's and uh jericho's and there's great wrestlers wrestling but it's not a glorious moment in time and he ends up becoming this passionate enough to pursue it this way.

1:25:23By the way, how cool is the Brotherhood story going to be of him and Javon Evans? The whole thing is like, I love it. I love this guy. I'm telling you, I have since the beginning. I love Vanity Project. We've been doing the swipe right thing for a year now. We've been doing our own swiping right. We're swiping up a storm. We're swiping and swiping. Javon Evans is another level. I don't know. This class is there's something going on. Do you think there's something going on? It's feeling like there's a group right here that could be having another next moment. And maybe we're biased because I'm so close to it.

1:26:01And you and I are obviously very in on Evolve more so than maybe other people are who aren't yet hip to it. Although I think it's – I actually am also going to say I think Evolve is starting to grow a bit right now as well. It is, but when you base the promotion around a guy like Jackson Drake, who clearly has it all, or will, and is headed in that direction, that's the way you build a show, is around at least one big star and his stable. It makes complete sense, and it's the perfect next NXT class. I know. You can see them just running amok on NXT. They could be fantastic. I just hope I don't lose them on Evolve anytime soon because they make the TV like so much better.

1:26:50It's just so hard when you don't have acts that are easy. You can watch. All you have to do is watch Vanity Project for five minutes and you get what the bid is. You turn it on, you go, I get it. Okay, I know these guys are. It's easy and it's current and it works and whatever. But I'm just not to – because I'm biased with Evolve with you. But I'm just going to say, if you really love wrestling and you care about the next generation of who you're going to be watching and who your kids are going to be watching and your grandkids, if you really are invested in the future of wrestling, you should be watching Evolve and paying attention to Evolve.

1:27:24Because here they are. If you want to be invested from some, like, we didn't have this opportunity years and years ago as wrestling fans. The kids now and the people that are just getting into wrestling or who love wrestling have an opportunity to invest in somebody from the Jackson Drake days of their career. We never saw anything like that. No, we weren't getting to see Ohio Valley wrestling. We were not getting. No, it was on public access or you once in a while saw it on, you know, on a local station. But now you have it on these streaming services. You have it on Tubi. You have NXT on, you have Peacock and you have it on CW and all these things.

1:28:01But like this is, if you are a true fan and you care about the future of wrestling, you need to be watching evolve. Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate this very, very much. Real quick, I love when I see betting odds coming down the line. We're seeing War Games betting odds. Here we go. From the Dirts. In the men's war games match, the Punk Rhodes Usos Reigns team plus 140. The Vision McIntyre Lesnar team with Logan Paul is minus 180. So the world sees that as a heels match. Yeah, I agree. I agree. the baby faces in the women's match which so far officially is only Ripley, Sky and Bliss they are the minus 225 favorites over the heel Asuka, Sane Jax, Legend and TBD they're plus 160 so the baby face in the women's match are the favorites yeah makes sense too Stephanie we spent some time on this earlier Eric and I have a lot of strong feelings.

1:29:12Stephanie Viqueira minus 2 ,500 against Nikki Bella. Not surprising. Nikki's the plus 800 dog in that match. Obviously, with things just getting started for Stephanie Viqueira, that's not shocking. I know, but wouldn't it be just a great piece of television if Nikki Bella teaches Stephanie Viqueira a lesson? No, no. Well, we talked about this some earlier, but yes. There is an opportunity, and if you missed it earlier, make sure you listen to the whole podcast. There's an opportunity potentially being missed with Nikki Bella, and I think dips probably come around some. Since babyface Nikki was not getting the reaction they wanted, but heel Nikki is a perfect thing for this division.

1:29:51It's a perfect thing. Thank God they did this. They did the right thing. I don't always say that. I will tell you this definitively was the right thing to do. And by the way, do the next right thing and have her win. I'm telling you, we just saw this with Tiffany Stratton. these young babyface champions getting the title is an awesome moment the longer they carry it it becomes an albatross it's just like pressure and where's the story like it's so much easier for a babyface to chase and they put so much and I'm no expert I'm sorry I'm not trying to sound like I'm some writer or expert but I just have seen it time and time again that when the good guys especially if they're young they get the title after a little while you're like I'd rather see them chasing the bad guy than than just sitting there with the title.

1:30:40Sorry. You are an expert. I think you're not a writer, and we know that. We know our place. But we are experts. We've been watching wrestling for... I've been watching wrestling for 35 years. You've been watching it for 45 years. I mean, I'll get away with you calling me an expert. You're a complete hack. But keep going. Bed, Bath, and Beyond hack. But I'm going to tell you the right thing to do is to have Nikki Bellow have the shock win over Stephanie Beller. Oh, it'd be such a great... The crowd will be so mad. It would be so great. The boos will be out of control. What a great way to, and then you can go into the Rumble with Stephanie Viqueira trying to win the Rumble to get the title back.

1:31:14There's a lot you could do there. Sorry, and then to wrap up the betting odds, this is interesting, although not surprising, I guess, because the Dirt seemed to know everything with these odds. John Cena, the champion, plus 200. Dominic Mysterio, the minus 300 favorite to win back his Intercontinental Championship. I said it last week. He should immediately win the title back no matter what they do, and then they put him against Cena again, and that's exactly what should happen. You know how I hate that you have to put somebody over. But he's not leaving. We know what's going to happen in this match.

1:31:46Dominic's going to go over. Good. It's in San Diego. That's going to be such a fun thing. The reaction is going to be amazing and hard to predict. All right, we're out of time. The Healthinator, Kelly, Emilio, SGG, we love all of you. You're great guys. Dip, thank you. Thank you. Jackson Drake, thank you. Next week, we'll have a special Thanksgiving show. We look forward to that. And we have a big Patreon episode that we're doing live this weekend as well. So if you're not part of the Patreon, Cheap Heat Live on Patreon, you don't want to miss it. We'll get people ready for full gear. We will watch some classic war games matches.

1:32:20We're going to have fun on Patreon this weekend. Stay mage, everyone, and enjoy yourself.