461 | Taking Space for Yourself and Community | October Roundup

25:32So you would want to transfer them out. Now, of course, you would then have to make a decision on where they went. So you would lose that flexibility ultimately, but obviously better than losing them. And you could make a decision, okay, I'm going to send them all to Hyatt, or I'm going to send them all to United or some combination thereof. And okay, you still have those points. They're sitting in your Hyatt account or your United Mileage Plus account. And those are your points. And at that point, you can then make a decision to close or not close the credit card. But hopefully, does that make sense?

26:05Yeah, that's helpful. Okay, cool. So I guess getting to the heart of your actual question is, all right, so now I understand where these points are. I understand that. But okay, okay, my annual fee is coming up and maybe I've had this card for a year or two or three or who knows, but what do I do? So I think the easiest way to do this is let's play out that this is the end of the first year. So you always look for, Hey, what am I getting, if anything for paying for this annual fee for the next year? So in the case of Southwest, and I'm not sure precisely which card you have, but I think they normally have somewhere around a$99 annual fee and you get some number of points as an anniversary bonus.

26:45Yeah, there are some anniversary points, but they aren't that significant. Yeah, agreed. It's not that significant, but it's something like 3 ,000 or 6 ,000 points, I think, depending on the card you have. And of course, different offers have changed over the years. But let's say it's 6 ,000 points and you rate one of those at 1.5 cents per point. Well, that's a$90 value. Okay. So that pretty much offsets the annual fee. And there might be other benefits from a card. Of course, we're being specific, but general here in the sense that, okay, there might be some kind of baggage allowance. There might be some kind of, I get into the lounges for that airline, maybe a couple of times a year, something like this, right?

27:21So, okay, if I'm getting something in value that's close, then maybe I consider this. I think of my Hyatt card, which I keep open indefinitely. And that gives me one free category one through four hotel night each year. And that's pretty cool. And I I think it certainly covers, if not outweighs in most cases, the annual fee that I pay. So that's more than a fair trade for me. And I think I get some other bonuses, like some status qualifying nights and such. So it's not that much, but I think it's pretty good. And I think some of the larger fees, like the Capital One Venture X, which I actually just paid for again, they give me an anniversary bonus of, I think, 10 ,000 points.

28:03So that's worth at least$100. And I get one of those$300 annual travel credits. So that's basically a$300 cash cover for an expense that I put through Capital One Travel. So I don't love paying that hugely significant annual fee, but those two things make it net to zero or even to the good. So I think if you're smart about it and it's a card that has a bonus for re-upping, then you can usually wash it down close to zero. But clearly, like you said, if you're not using the card, you have no anticipation of using it. And you judge that I'm just not getting enough value out of it. Then yeah, I mean, I think you call up the number on the back of your card and say, Hey, look, my annual fee is coming up.

28:43Is there any way you can waive the fee for me for the next year? Is there any way you can offer me a retention bonus? We always talk about scripts, right? That you can do for negotiation, like with the financial mechanic or Tori Dunlap. And they're actually scripts for these retention calls. So literally just Google credit card retention call script or something like that. And I suspect with a little bit of knowledge, you can find out, okay, what should I expect? What should I ask for? And I think that's, that's pretty easy and reasonable to do. And I mean, realistically, they may or may not offer you something.

29:17And if they don't, then you have to make that decision. And if you're not using the card, you're not getting value from it. Then I think it's reasonable to close the card at that point. So that's kind of the decision tree that I run this through. And of course, I never want to close my oldest credit card accounts. So another final option is to, if it is an annual fee card, you could downgrade it in many cases and that keeps the credit history, but you don't potentially have to pay an annual fee at that point or a drastically reduced one. So again, just things to think about. Yeah, that's helpful.

29:51All right, Ginger. So we are 30 minutes into our roundup here. And I think maybe this will be a good time to start talking about some of the episodes that came out this month. And we actually had four. So we had the mailbag with Rachel Camp, and that was episode 457. And that's very precise information, which I think in a sense was actually similar to episode 460, which was, again, very precise information. That was with Brian Ufinger. and we talked about the cost of college and how can we think about this? How can we prepare ahead of time? And yeah, this was just an amazing one. And that said, I think we're probably going to spend more time talking about episodes 458 and 459.

30:33So yeah, where do you want to start? Well, let's start with the college one. Okay. Because I'm kind of with you where it's, I think it's a really important episode to listen to, especially if you have children who are say seventh grade to 12th grade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There were a few things that I learned that I just, because I'm not really in that world right now, I had no idea. Like I had no idea how transparent the merit scholarship situation is for public schools. And I thought that that was super interesting and helpful in terms of how to prepare your kid for, Hey, here's why these tests are important.

31:09Here's what we need to be shooting for. So for those of you who are lost, he was just saying you can go to, I think he was saying you can just go to the website of our public college and it says, Hey, to get this scholarship, you need to hit this number on your ACT, for example. And when we were that age, this, it was just like, you don't know, send it in and maybe it will, it will be good enough for them. And so that seemed like a really big change in the system. Yeah. That was a massive one for me. And Brian called it the golden age of merit aid that we're in now because they're just so transparent on these merit aid grids.

31:46And I mean, Ginger, when you and I and Brian, when we went to college, it was nothing like this. It was the wild, wild west. You had no idea about anything. Now you have literal numbers, specific numbers to shoot for. And I think Brian's example, his story of the dad whose son worked at firehouse subs, I think it was. And they basically said, okay, you need to improve by 26 questions out of, I think it was 215 total questions to receive$70 ,000 of additional merit aid over the four years. And his dad basically said, you're not working at Firehouse Subs, but I'm going to pay you to study the same amount you were making per hour and whatever it was, nine or$12 an hour.

32:25And literally every single additional question that he got right across those 26 questions of improvement. That's 70 ,000. It was worth almost$3 ,000 each,$2 ,700 in merit aid each for every question. That's insane, right? So when you see it on the grid, it's obvious and it's real and it's tangible and it's something you can shoot for. It's not just like, again, back in the old days, like, oh, I got X good score on the SAT, which who knows what that means. That might give me a higher likelihood of getting into some randomly college, which I may or may not go to anyway. Right. So it was always just super nebulous.

33:05And now it's tangible. Yeah. I loved those numbers. And it speaks to, to a point he made about these are not intelligence tests. And if they were, then he would be out of a job as a tutor or something for these tests. And so obviously people can get better at it. And boy, that's so important to understand that you really can improve your score. Yeah, you absolutely can. And I know we can argue over the merits of clearly people with more means have a higher likelihood of being able to do this type of test prep. And obviously that's not ideal and that's unfortunate, but I think we ultimately have to look at the reality of the world as we see it.

33:44And if you do have the time and knowledge, which ultimately what Brian was giving us, this knowledge years ahead of time for many of us. And in your case, Ginger, you have a seven-year-old, right? So I have a sixth grader and a 10th grader and the 10th grader is in the heart of this, but with the sixth grader, we're getting ahead of it. And I have a chance to get them prepared for this. And it could be worth tens upon tens of thousands of dollars, each girl for her family. So I'd be silly to not have them study. I can't, I can't come up with an example of why I wouldn't. So, I mean, we're not obsessing about the scores for vanity's sake or to keep up with the Joneses or anything crazy like that.

34:21There are these grids. So we know what they need to get on these tests. And I think it's very important. And like Brian said, some of the really important things, there's some very tangible things. One specific one that I took away was every sophomore, every 10th grader at basically the beginning of their second semester, ideally should take a full length free, but full length and timed SAT and ACT. So literally on separate weekends, you have them sit down and they're going to take these tests basically under testing conditions. And I know Brian's company, Edison Prep offers these free tests. I'm sure they're all over the internet, but that to me is a no-brainer.

35:04And yeah, it's a little bit uncomfortable, right? Like, okay, my kid needs to sit down for two or three hours on a couple of weekends, but understanding where they are with these tests is really, really important. And I think what Brian tried to describe was the point of that is to understand where you are now and specifically, which of these two tests do you maybe excel at? Are you better at one just naturally? Well, okay. That's the one you need to focus on. It's not like the old days, Ginger. Like, okay, if we're going to a school in the Midwest, they take the ACT. But if you're going to a school on the coast, they take the SAT.

35:38I mean, there were all these old school things, but that's not the case anymore. Essentially every school, accepts both of these exams and you want to give them your better one. So like Brian was saying, it's a waste of time to try to get to be good or mediocre at both of them. Junior varsity, as he called it, right? There's no point to that. It's a waste of time and energy. You want to become varsity. You want to be excellent or the best you can be at one of the exams. So that's why you sit down under testing conditions and take these exams. So that way you have a lot of time to get ready and you focus on that one that you're better at and you move forward from there.

36:16And it's really, that makes a ton of sense to me. So that's obviously something very specific. Another specific thing, he said the best time, the ideal time, and this doesn't mean it's too late. Otherwise, like we're starting after this, but the best time to start thinking about all of this is eighth grade, which I know it sounds a little premature, but the reason why he said that is many students, many eighth graders are taking courses that their GPAs count towards their high school GPA. So as we said on those merit aid grids, it's a function of two things, right? It's the test score and it's the GPA.

36:51So clearly if you did something like you get a C or D on a course in middle school and that counts toward your high school GPA and the colleges see it, that's going to be unfortunate. It doesn't destroy or torpedo their chances. But if you can possibly, you really want to start doing well on any kind of high school GPA courses, essentially. So that was just another really granular thing that Brian passed along that I thought was important. Okay, should we jump to Farnoosh and Corey's? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you thought of these as very complimentary episodes. So I'd love to hear your thoughts.

37:27They were. They're the double hitter. I really, really encourage people to listen to both of them because they are both so good and they both really talk about fear a lot. And so that's why even as I was thinking back on sort of what were my takeaways from those episodes, sometimes I'm kind of getting confused about which idea was in which episode. But yeah, I really enjoyed them. What was one thing you pulled from those episodes? So obviously, Farnoosh is very overt about these nine fears. And Corey's was a little less overt, but he talked about how curiosity can often soften fear. And he said, be a little introspective, look for spots of discomfort.

38:07And he said, quote, I believe curiosity is the opposite of fear. A lot of times when we think about the opposite of fear, we think of bravery and courage or strength. But if you look at what fear is, it's this tendency to withdraw and kind of shut down and to get small, where curiosity is the tendency to move towards and to expand and to explore. So on an energetic level, you can say they are opposites. And something about that just really hit me. It's that curiosity can soften fear. I think a lot of times we run away from discomfort, Ginger. I think, I don't know, we think life should be easy, but sometimes just leaning into it a little bit, trying to figure out where that edge is for you and maybe why it's there.

38:50Just be a little curious about it. So yeah, that, that was interesting. Yeah. I think if you break it down to, you can see that what he was talking about can be really practical advice for people. So if you think of curiosity as sort of an intervention for when you're feeling fearful and allow yourself to go down that road. So, Oh, I'm, I'm looking at my accounts and I'm afraid I don't have, I won't have enough money. And then to be curious about that means to say something like, okay, well, where is that coming from? Or what am I thinking is the worst case scenario? And gosh, what have I done at other times when I have felt this way that I didn't have enough?

39:29Oh, I asked for help. And how did that go? You know, so actually allowing yourself to think that through, right? Think about like, what does it really mean to be curious? it means to ask a lot of questions and to be open to thinking about things in a new way. Yeah, I think that's important, right? Like it highlights the value of asking questions, of being curious. And another way that Corey then internally was talking about this was he used the phrase, follow the whisper. And I just thought there was something really, really cool about that. And he said, trust the insight and then just ask, what is one step it is asking me to take?

40:05Like it's something about that introspection, but it's also like, it's trusting your intuition. It's trusting that that little whisper, that seed of an idea, that seed of a thought, that seed of a desire to do something. I mean, a lot of times we just take the safe path, you know, even going back to the fun, right? Like sometimes it's easy to just not follow that whisper. It's a lot easier, frankly, but like, okay, what would it look like to trust myself to ask these questions and to keep asking questions? Yeah, it made me think about how the symptoms, we could say the physical manifestation of excitement and anxiety really overlap.

40:44And so it's really about how you're framing a certain situation. So in that part where he said, thinking about when you have a little excitement about something, well, what about this landed for you? So exploring with curiosity, not just, oh, I have this scary feeling, but also when you have that excited feeling, which those are really linked, they're very similar. But it was fun to think about that as well. Like I should also lean with curiosity into these things that are a little bit exciting and like, oh, what is it about that that gives me energy or that makes me want to explore? Yeah, I like that.

41:17And he certainly talked, like you said, both about the curiosity, but potentially about the fear or even the whispers of that. And we're talking about the body keeps the score. And I have a longer quote here, but I think it's a good one. He said, everything that you're doing is being filtered through what you're feeling in the body. Any conversation you have, any trigger from another person, from what you see on the spreadsheet or in your bank account, it's going to trigger something in your body. and if you're not attuned to that feeling in the body and able to move closer to understand, what is this about?

41:49Is this fear rising? Rational fear. Is it irrational? Is it because I have a really complicated relationship with money that stemmed from when I was a child? That makes me feel like if I lose some money in my bank account, I'm going to go broke and I'm not gonna have any resources. I'm gonna be put out on the street. This stuff can run super deep, he said. And I just thought again, that it's kind of the perfect compliment where you're talking about the more positive side of this, but it's also just look for where, where do I react? And maybe I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know where it came from.

42:19I've never done that introspection, but as we're saying, just keeping curious and keep asking questions. Yeah. I think I'm always looking too, for like, what is the practical piece that we can take from some of this stuff, even though I really like to live in the land of ideas. And so I think I'll do the introspection and that's so good for learning about ourselves and the insight and et cetera, et cetera. But it's also really hopeful that quote about the body to recognize, yeah, if all this stuff is coming through the body, then when I'm in a really activated place, I don't have to do all this deep thinking in this moment.

42:52What I have to do is I have to attend to my body. I have to take care of my body. And by doing that physiologically, it will help, right? Like if I say, okay, I don't know what to do, but I'm panicking, I can take some deep breaths. And then it doesn't matter what I think about it because physiologically I'm going to calm down because my heart is going to beat slower, right? And these other processes are going to happen in my body. And so I think it's a really hopeful thing when we think, oh, this all goes through my body because in those moments we can say, okay, what do I need to do? I need to attend to my body first.

43:26And that stuff is actually pretty easy. So clearly taking that breathing, right? That's super helpful. Do you have any other tips or things that work for you? Oh yeah. So in that moment of like, what can I do to attend to my body. Exactly. Yeah. So movement is another one. People don't like to hear this one, but if you can do some really intense exercise, that's one way that you can help to regulate before you can get to those places of like, no, I can reflect and decide what's the best movement for me. Right. And actually, instead of giving you another one, I'll go a little bit more depth into the breathing one because that can be the most powerful one that people have.

44:02It doesn't cost any money. You can do it anywhere, right? Most people know it's good to take some deep breaths. Any deep breaths you can do, great. But there's a few things that you can do that might make it a little bit more effective for you. So one is to make sure that you are breathing from your belly and not from your chest. When we're breathing from our chest, that is our body. We're telling our body like, get ready for action, right? That's an anxiety state of breathing. So making sure you're breathing from your belly when you're trying to attend to your body. And then also, you can look up what are some of the different breathing patterns like box breathing or combat breathing.

44:38And there's a couple other patterns that you can get apps that will walk you through it, or you can just Google it. And when you learn a few of those, they're super easy and they can be super helpful for doing what we're talking about. Yeah, agreed. And we're not going to highlight the specific breathing and try to actually do it where you can audibly hear us. But I think the three things that I've heard of Ginger, and clearly there's so many different breathing modalities, but the three that I've heard most frequently in the circles that I frequent are box breathing, which is usually something like four seconds in through your nose, four seconds hold, four seconds out, and then four seconds hold at the bottom.

45:17It's something like that. I think, you know, depending, some people probably do five seconds or whatnot, but I've heard four. And another one I've heard is four, seven, eight breathing. And of course you can Google all of So definitely box breathing, four, seven, eight. And then one that Dr. Andrew Huberman talks about all the time is the physiological sigh. And he actually said, neuroscience-wise, this is the best way to calm down. And it happens really quickly. It's basically you take this massive inhale with your nose. And just when you think you can't take any more, you then just fill up with another second smaller breath just to fill up even more.

45:54and then you let out this deep sigh through your mouth. And of course you can find plenty of videos on YouTube, just Google this and figure it out. But those are the three that I've come across most frequently. So yeah, I mean, if you're looking for, let's say a 20 second fix or thereabouts, you really can't go wrong with trying one of those. Yeah, and I know it might seem we're kind of in the weeds here, but if we're gonna talk about fear, right? Both of these episodes are really deep into fear. It's good to think about, okay, we've got some good strategies for how to attend to that fear through reflection, through questioning our thoughts.

46:27And all that stuff is so great. But also there's this other way in, right? Which is through our body. Totally agreed. And yeah, just going to fear and talking about Franoosh, she was talking about fear and money being like two peas in a pod. And she said, when we fear money, we're really fearing the relationship we have with money. All the associations we place on this thing called money, the interpretation of what having money means, what not having money means. And really it's, it's going back in your life. And like, what are those money stories? What are the scripts that keep running? Was it something you overheard when you were seven or eight years old, your parents arguing about or some such, or think about like money is the root of all evil, right?

47:07You hear these sayings or, Oh, rich people, blah, blah, blah. You know, you can just fill in all of these societal things that you hear. And we wonder why people have negative associations with money, right? I mean, Ginger, most of us, just when we grew up, we feared money. We were completely afraid of it. We thought investing was gambling. You hear all of these things, right? I'm going to play in the stock market and give me a break, right? But all of this stuff you hear, nothing's positive. I mean, I personally can rarely think of instances growing up where I heard anything positive about money.

47:39Yeah. Yeah. It's true that it's a really emotional topic. And if you start to talk to people about money. Everybody is weird about it. Everybody is weird about it in some way or another. And I think that's partly because we hear all these stories and then we try to make it make sense in our own lives. But yeah. Yeah. I totally hear you. And I think Farnoosh's book, and I know I said this in the episode and I was not just saying this, the book was fantastic. It really was. I think for somebody like me, who has maybe always conceptualized myself as someone with a lot of fears or worries. It just, it made me feel seen and it felt empowered to come away from that, that, Hey, you can turn these things around.

48:20And she said, fear is what makes us human. It's perfectly normal. And not only that, but to look at and reframe them as there's a superpower here. And you can actually do that. You can walk away feeling empowered. So that was the very general sense that I got from the book. I really recommend you grab it from your local library or or purchase it, it was something that was really worth reading. It really was. I'll do it. I'll do it. Yeah. And maybe we end on the discussion of her with, you know, you said something like, how did you get over your fears? And she said, oh, I didn't. I didn't get over the fear.

48:52I recognize the fear. I see its merits and I'm going to choose to engage with it or not. And I love that. We can recognize that this fear has a purpose, that our emotions have a purpose, but we don't have to let them drive us. Yeah. That's an important, important takeaway way and easier said than done. And that's just a great way to leave that as something just to be mindful of. And I think that's what we can take away from those two episodes, which is just be mindful of that. Follow the whisper. Like Corey said, I think as you so aptly said, those two episodes tie together so beautifully. And it's funny because I didn't even think about that, honestly, when I scheduled them to go out back to back, but they are a perfect compliment to each other.

49:31So yeah, I think we covered those three episodes really well. And I know in the episode 457, the mailbag with Rachel Camp. It's kind of hard to recap a mailbag, obviously. So we probably won't spend too much time on this, but I really enjoyed this one. I'd only met Rachel through Twitter and she's just incredibly knowledgeable and it was a lot of fun. And I think we talked about some really important things. Like, is it possible to become fi or is it too late for me? That was the email that Laura sent in and she was beating herself up. Like it's all my fault. I'm sick of what could have been. And I think hopefully she came away and so many people came away with a hopeful message of it's never too late, right?

50:11And like I said in the episode, under what scenario are you in better shape 10 years from now? Having pursued FI regardless of what you've done in the past or not having pursued FI and just beating yourself up. And I mean, obviously it's the former, right? Everyone can benefit from pursuing financial independence. no matter where you're starting, no matter what your income is, no matter what mistakes you've made in the past, no matter what age you are, et cetera, et cetera. I think it's a universal good pursuing financial independence. You know, obviously Ginger, I'm not naive. I'm not saying it's as easy for everybody as let's say a 28 year old who's coming out with$0 of student loan debt as a doctor and it's making$400 ,000 a year.

50:55Okay. I get that. That's easier than someone who's 50 who's made catastrophic mistakes and is just getting started. I mean, we're not fools here, right? We're not trying to fool ourselves or anyone in the community. But I think, and I think this is the important part, is anyone can benefit from pursuing financial independence and just taking actions to make their life better. I think that's the hallmark of this, of this community and of this movement, this worldwide movement. Okay. That's a perfect transition, I think, into the question that you received about getting started? You're saying you can start at any age.

51:31So when you do, how do you do that? Yeah. So this was a fun one. So actually, it's funny, Ginger, this email came in this morning. So it was top of mind when I got this. Leah actually responded to my Choose It Buy newsletter. So I always say every week, if you literally hear reply to that newsletter that comes to your inbox on Tuesday morning, I get the reply. It comes straight to me. So choose that buy.com slash subscribe. I personally handwrite this thing. If you like the podcast, you're going to like the newsletter, just get on the newsletter. If you have any questions, send them to me. You could find that also on every page of our website in the top right corner for the five weekly newsletter.

52:07So Leah sent in and she said, I have a quick question for you. I'm very new to investing and I just started funding my first 401k and I'm currently holding an S &P 500 fund in that 401k. I was going to open an IRA through Vanguard separately and start funding VTSAX as well, but any research I've done about holding both of these says there's no point because they basically mirror each other and there are very few differences. I really want to hold VTSAX and was really excited to do so until I read those articles and comments. Can I get your advice on this? Is it pointless to hold both? Is it a good idea?

52:41Okay. So Leah, obviously there's a lot there and I want to answer this succinctly or as best I can. So let's get this out of the way. You're doing the right thing in my estimation in the 401k. So I think most people have very limited options with their 401k. And what I generally advise to do is when you look at that list of options, you look at the fees, the expense ratio, and you look for the one that is closest to zero, because chances are this is going to be one, the one that mirrors the S and P 500 or the total stock market index fund most closely. All right. And that is my personal investing strategy.

53:17And I think that's what many people in the FI community do. Of course, not all. This is not financial advice, clearly. But this is what I personally do. And if you've read The Simple Path to Wealth, the incredible book by J.L. Collins, we understand how important it is to minimize fees and basically take your brain out of this to try to match the market over years and decades. So that's the critical part. So Leah, I think you're spot on with the S &P 500 fund in your 401k. That's great. And I know you're super excited about VTSAX, which I love. And it shows you've been in the FI community, you've been paying attention.

53:54But I think VTSAX is a little overblown in the sense that it's almost become, and I say this in a weird way, like a meme to a large degree that we love Vanguard and what it stands for. JL Collins has talked about VTSAX so much. And I think that's where it's taken on this life of itself ultimately, but it's just one option to invest. And even at Vanguard, so there's the total stock market index fund, the S &P 500 index fund, and then the ETF versions of both of those. There's VTI, which is the ETF total stock market fund. There's VOO, which is the S &P 500. So there are plenty of these options.

54:33And then of course, that's just at Vanguard. There's Fidelity and Schwab, which I also personally invest at both of those places. So each of them has these ultra low cost funds for both S &P 500 and total stock market. And really, like you said, they are substantially similar. So your research was right in that regard in that, okay, you don't have to stress about picking between them, especially if you only have one option in your 401k, they are really going to mirror each other very closely. But like the name suggests, S &P 500 is basically 500 companies, whereas total stock market fund is probably closer to 4 ,000 at this point.

55:12So it gets you a little bit of extra diversification in that sense, but only a little because it's cap weighted. So it basically means the smaller companies, you have such a tiny, tiny, tiny little percentage that it rounds down to making very little difference at the end of the day. So hopefully that makes sense. Yeah. So I want to summarize and make it even easier. right? Which is instead of focusing on VTSAX, you want to focus on the total stock market index fund. And that can show up in a lot of different funds, right? So if we just swap out one for the other to say you're excited about VTSAX, what you're excited about is that it's a total stock market index fund.

55:53So look for that where you can get that. So, okay, that was critical and we got that SEX or VOO or VTI or whatever, that's great. It ultimately has no relevance to your 401k because frankly, you're going to have a lot of accounts. I have a lot of accounts. I have Roth IRA. I have traditional IRA. I have a SEP IRA. I have 401ks. I have my regular taxable brokerage account. My wife has accounts of almost all of those. You're going to have a lot of these different account umbrellas, as I call it. It's a terrible way to put it, but that's how I think about it. Like these are just types of accounts and you're going to need to invest money in each of them.

56:32It can't just sit there in cash, right? So you're going to have S and P 500 or total stock market fund in each of them. And you might have other things. You might, obviously you have to decide what you want to invest in, but that's fine. If you were going to invest in the IRA, do it. That's great. You can invest in the S and P because that's what you have in 401k. If you feel great about it, but you can do whatever you want. That's the beautiful thing. So really, really important question. And I hope that covered it. So thanks again, Leah, for sending that in. Okay, Brad, this has been fun. Let's end on a win.

57:03Nice. I like it. So Logan wrote in. Yeah, he said, My 1 % better turned into 28 % better last week when I was finally able to renegotiate salary with my employer. I implemented many of the strategies from the episodes with Tori Dunlap and Financial Mechanic. With this extra financial space, I anticipate being able to max out my 401k for the first time ever. Thank you for the inspiration. I would have never had the guts to ask slash negotiate without choose FI. That is incredible. Logan, 28 % is just remarkable. And I think this is one of those things, negotiation. And it's one of really the everlasting positives from choose FI has been everything is negotiable.

57:44That phrase, everything is negotiable. And I think those episodes with Tori Dunlap way back in episode 147 and financial mechanic who was on in episode 211 and then very recently in episode 454. And they're remarkable. They're remarkable because they walk us through specifically what we can ask for in these negotiations. And they're scripts. They're basically scripts you can work off. So Ginger, I mean, that helps so much. So yeah, this is a great one. And oh my gosh, Logan, maxing out your 401k. You are in such a cool club. I wish I was in that club. Good job. All right, Ginger, this has been a lot of fun.

58:21Thank you. And I'll see you next month for another roundup.

58:49And it's really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a by local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to chooseify.com slash local, and you'll find a list of all of those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world.

59:23And if you're just getting started with FI, or you have a family member or a friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways. Chooseify episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. And even though it's a couple of years old at this point, it still stands up. And it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence? What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then Choose a Vi created a financial independence 101 course that's entirely free.

59:58Just head to choosefi.com slash fi101. And again, thanks for listening.

1:00:11Thank you.