479 | Are You on Track to FI? | FI Roundtable

25:45I guess it was the same day, this magical day, right up there with getting married. But I guess it was finding Pete's blog. And then after that, I mean, you were investing before, right? So you felt like you had some control, but you had a different style, which I mean, I think maybe you still have a little bit of a different style of investing, right? Yeah, I probably do. Actually, when we opened up, I said that I learned about index funds at that seminar in college and I did not. It was mutual funds. I did not know what an index fund is until I found JL Collins, which was after I discovered FI, I was probably 40 when I discovered what an index fund is.

26:19So I just bought stocks because that's what I knew. But what was your original question, Doug? Just the internal locus of control versus external or if you had such a switch. Yeah, I can't point to any specific moment. It's just very gradual. As you accumulate money, you accumulate confidence too, I think. And it's liberating. If money can do anything for you, it shouldn't be to buy crazy stuff. It should be to give you security and confidence and autonomy over your life. It took me a long time. Even after I made my goal, I did not retire. Now we have a lot more, and I think I'm finally in a good place, but it's probably only in the past year that I'm really comfortable with the pile of money we have and secure and knowing that it's going to last us for the rest of our lives.

27:03Yeah. That security is really important. That's why I said before, the psychological nature of this is, I think, the hardest to overcome. I know all three of us have really changed our mindsets recently. I think the book that we've mentioned so many times, Die With Zero has been a big part of that. But I think it speaks to a larger evolution of the FI community and the FI mindset, which was maybe when we found Pete and this community in 2013, 2014, 2012 for you, Carl, a lot of this was about how quickly can I get to a number? Whether this is explicitly stated or not, how much can I cut and how much can I save?

27:43And it was just, there was no aspect of like the life part of this. And I think, Doug, I want to get you in here because I think this is the heart of Maggie's question is like, did you feel like your retirement was a long time away, even if it was sooner than the average person? And I think that's like a shorthand for, all right, you've got all these years, you can't wish them away. You have to maybe find out what life really looks like for you. And I'm curious your thoughts on that and how you've seen yourself evolve. I don't want to steal too much of Carl's thunder because I think some of it does come with things that I've actually learned from Carl.

28:22And once you hit that number, right, it's the destination. Once you get there, you're going to find something, but it's probably not going to be all the answers to everything. So you have to enjoy the journey. And we've talked about it a little bit. They're in their late 20s. That's great. You guys are going to crush it. Like Carl and I had no idea until our mid thirties or so. We did a couple good things. So we were in a nice position to shift our focus and make great progress. But at the end of the day, like those 15, 20 years that she's looking at, those are going to be awesome. Those are great years.

28:58Those are really fun years where you're very, hopefully, eager to travel physically, like probably in the best shape of your life. and you have to find a way to enjoy the journey along the way. So like I said, I don't want to steal everything from Carl. What do you have to layer on top? I think the whole point of FI is for happiness and to improve our life. And if you're denying yourself those two things, just to get to that number, you're not doing it well. One of the things I heard recently, which I thought was great, was Brad, you were on the All the Hacks podcast with our friend Chris Hutchins, and you mentioned your brother.

29:33And tell me if I'm stating this story wrong. But I believe you said he's not FI yet, but he's taking like a year or two off to spend time with his young children. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, that's super good. That's exactly what you should do with money. I love that. Even though he's not FI yet, he's taking the time and he's going to probably postpone FI a little bit. But that's great. Now he's making these great memories with his young kids. He can go back to school or he can go back to work after the kids are in school and continue on his journey. But yeah, I think that's wonderful.

30:02Yeah, agreed. I'm just, I'm so impressed that they decided to do that. And it's just such like a wonderful thing for their young family. And Doug mentioned before in passing about like sabbaticals and mini retirements. And I know our good friend, Jillian Johnsrud talks about this really wonderfully. And she was on the show, not all that long ago, talking about mini retirements. So that's what my brother and his wife did here. They have a really young daughter. They have a one-year-old and they just realized like this time is fleeting. And these are these years we can't get back. And yeah, I mean, they made the decision to move back to Wisconsin, where Kristen's from, and they're not at five, but they have basically decided.

30:46And again, everything in life, I think is like, it's a trade off, right? Like you have to make decisions. And for them, it's we're going to live a really lean life, still a wonderful life. I mean, they're living an absolutely wonderful life. But by any objective measure, It's a very lean life in terms of cost. Okay. But they made a very smart decision again, because they were on the path to FI. They hadn't reached FI, but they were on the path to FI. They were able to purchase a three bedroom condo in cash and their living expenses are nothing. So they basically just spend on food and entertainment and utilities.

31:24And okay. Does that look like spending$200 a month for a personal trainer? Like I'm doing. or going to some fancy gym. Like, no, they go to the YMCA, which is still wonderful, right? But like, it's little trade-offs. They're not going out to dinner all the time, but they're able to take a couple years off and spend that as a family of three, which again, everybody makes their own decision. Like I almost reflexively said, like, of course you would do that because that's where my brain goes. Like that seems to be so self-evident, but it's not to everybody because some people, that's not the decision they would make.

32:00And that's perfectly fine. I think that at the end of the day, we all make decisions, right? But I'm just really happy for them. I think it's the perfect example of this little mini retirement built into how do you live a wonderful life, not how do you just race to a number on a screen? Yeah, I'm trying not to be too cynical here, but it always cracks me up when people say that I don't want to pursue FI because it's a compromise. And then I hear a story like your brother, that's the ultimate thing you can do. give your kids your time when they're young. So I would say the way most people live is probably a compromise because they can't have that experience similar to your brother.

32:37That's just incredible. One follow-up, we're in this community, right? Where this is maybe like a normal thing. We're patting each other on the back for all this stuff. But externally, it could be really tough to deal with. Do you know if your brother had any people in his life, friends, relatives whatever neighbors who are like this is a really bad decision like don't do this because i could imagine if you're in a corporate setting that would be completely different they're like oh you're committing career suicide here like you're never going to be able to recover from this you're losing years of income blah blah blah yeah that's interesting well i i think it's a bit of an interesting situation in that my side of the family is you know us and my parents who have already kind of, uh, drunk the Kool-Aid.

33:21So I don't think they got any pushback, but I think it's one of those things where like when you explain something and this kind of Carl goes to what you were saying before about like, who's really sacrificing. Like when you explain that you're doing this, you can spend time as a family and like these most important years, like, is there anybody on earth who would actually say like, no, I'd rather have a Rolex or like go out to like fancy steak dinners instead and like stick my kid in daycare and both of us work 60 hours a week. And that's not to castigate people who make those decisions. Generally, it's not like daycare is bad.

33:56I'm not, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm just saying like, is there anybody who would actually straight face say that to his face and actually mean it? And like, then I wonder like what's actually fundamentally broken in their soul, you know, like, so, and maybe this is, uh, gives you a little more insight into my own brain is like, I feel like the decisions that I make, like I'm so comfortable and confident with them that like, I don't feel like I'd have any trouble explaining myself to anyone on earth. And I feel like the path to fi is like a fundamental truth. And so, yeah, again, it's, it's a little insight into my own soul, a little more, more than I normally do.

34:34But yeah, that's where my brain goes originally. Yeah. I'll push back against Doug a little bit. But I remember when I was in school, I had to go to see a guidance counselor to do my resume. And they're like, you never want to have a gap in your resume. That's bad. An employer will see that, and it's going to be a big red flag. I don't think that's a thing anymore. I think employers encourage you to take time off for personal growth and to read and study. I know companies like Google and Amazon and Apple even encourage that kind of thing. And a lot of them will even hold your job. I know Apple does this.

35:02You can come back and get your job within a certain amount of time. So, Maggie, if you're listening, don't be discouraged. I don't think a gap in your resume is going to kill your career if you decide to take time off for your children. I don't think I'm the caliber that can work at Google or Apple or any of the places you mentioned, but this is very nice of you. Oh man. And Carl, before when you're saying about, okay, what do you have to give up? Or like, oh, you might be giving up too much, like some corners of maybe even the financial independence world, maybe like the fat fi type of world might push back and say like, oh, I don't want to give anything up.

35:39And I think it's a false construct personally, like the, I'm just going to live and spend as much money as I want. And if my life costs$400 ,000 a year, then okay, there's just a mathematical equation to it. And while I think that is true, I still think it's this false construct in that, like there's no free lunch ultimately, right? Like I think what the opportunity cost is that I don't think people are taking into account is their life and the number of years, right? And like, it's all well and good to say, I want the finer things in life. And I mean, I do too also. And I think this is part of where some of Maggie's questions are going later is like, how have we changed over the years?

36:21And I think that's important to talk about. But you, by needing more in essence, by needing more to cover your life every year, you had to have given up almost by definition more years of your life to save that amount of money. And I think that's all well and good. But if you think this is just some free lunch of, okay, I'm gonna live fat fi or I'm gonna spend$200 ,000,$300 ,000 a year, again, that's fine. But be very mindful of the cost. And the cost is the only resource you can never get back, which is your time. It is the only resource that is not renewable. So I think that's kind of my slight pushback.

37:03I love our FatFi community, but my slight pushback is there's always a cost. Nothing is free in life. Yeah, Brad, I would say I am FatFi and I've had some pretty cool FatFi experiences this year. I had a private concert. I took a ride on a helicopter and most recently I saw U2 at the Sphere, which was an expensive concert ticket. But I think about all these things and then I think of the pecking order of what's important to me in life. And those things are cool. I loved them. They were great, but spending time with my kids, being fit, eating well, like all these things that are really important are the things that I need time to do and don't cost a lot of money.

37:39So yeah, if I had to give up fat fi, yeah, I didn't intend to be fat fi. We just did well with some investments, but you need to figure out what's important to you. And I think for most people, the core things that are really important to them, it sounds so cliche. I almost feel stupid saying this, but they don't cost a lot of money, like to spend quality time to take a nice walk with your partner. Those things don't cost money, and that's what basic phi gives us. It gives us our time, like you said, Brad. Yep. And I wouldn't necessarily lump us in the fat phi area, but I guess depends on how folks define it.

38:13But like you said, there's just trade-offs. There's trade-offs that you have to make. And when you were describing your brother and the lean lifestyle, I was a little jealous because it's pretty easy to trade up. You know, when they get back into the working world, they're going to be able to step into, you know, wherever they want. They can keep it the same. They can spend a little more, get a new car, get a new house, whatever they want to do or not, right? And it's 100 % fine, really easy to trade up. But once you get your Tesla, you know, it's going to be tough to go back, Carl, to a lesser car.

38:45And in some ways, you know, I think of our friends Matt and Joel at How to Money and what's your craft beer equivalent? And they spend money on craft beer. And that's great. They get a lot of joy out of it. Usually there's some community or social aspect to it. And I think of it that way. So what's your craft beer equivalent? And there's a handful of things that are high priority for us and a lot more that are not a priority. And it is a trade-off and we're comfortable with that. So I have an old truck or I have, you know, whatever. Carl gets all his clothes at Costco, stuff like that. Right. It looks great though.

39:24It looks good. Thanks, Doug. I love Costco. Yeah. I had dinner there last night. The roast beef sandwich though, we splurged. It was$10 and Mindy and I are like, man, like the hot dog's$1.50. We're like, no, let's go for the roast beef. We'll split it. It was good. Fat fi all the way, Carl. I like it. But yeah, this fat fi conversation, I think is an interesting one. And this kind of ties into Maggie's later question about how has your original phi number changed? And Carla, I'm curious, like as now you said, you've almost like fallen backwards into fat phi. And I guess on some level, I have two.

40:00And certainly my spending the last year or two has increased fairly dramatically. But I think that's very intentional. again, with the intersection of Daiwa Zero and as we've talked about the wait, but why and the tail end of my kids being 12 and 15 now and wanting to maximize these next three to six years, basically. So it's very intentional about spending more on experiences and travel and time with them. But I wonder if my fine number has actually changed or if this is like, Doug, you just said, like, you never go back. I wonder if you can go back. I'm not 100 % sure. So I guess my short answer to Maggie is I think by any definition, my spending has gone up dramatically.

40:49Our spending has gone up dramatically. But I haven't actually updated my FI number in my own head because I'm not sure what the permanent spending level is. And I think that's actually kind of fun in a sense that I don't have to micromanage it anymore. And I think that's kind of a real luxury, obviously, that I don't need to just constantly be doing the math of, oh, we spend this. I need to multiply it by 25. And am I over under? I'm not actually thinking about it. So I don't know that there's actually a conclusion here other than I think I found myself mentally free and freed more now than I ever have been with my personal finances.

41:31And it feels very comfortable. but I'm also mindful in the back of my head of some luxuries that, that I've built into my life now that maybe at a different stage of my life, or if something calamitous happened, let's say, right. That I think I could unwind some of these things very easily. Like I just started like this new kind of fun premium coffee thing. That's actually very cool. We're talking about another time, but, and also like as silly as it sounds like my wife and I were busy, we're shuttling kids left and right. We want to eat more vegetables and healthy food. We're literally buying pre-cut vegetables now, even though it's four times as much as just buying a head of cauliflower or broccoli.

42:12And that's okay. But do I think I'm going to do that for the rest of my life? Well, maybe, but maybe not. So I'm still thinking in the back of my head of could I unwind some of this? And I think I very easily could. It's just I don't want to be a miser if I don't need to, because my goal is not to accumulate a hundred million dollars. It's just, it's not, it's to live a great life. And that allows me these little things at the margin. So hopefully that makes some sense. I'm curious where you guys are with this. Yeah. I think you alluded to it, Brad. Something I think a lot about too is being in a fat fire situation hasn't really changed our life that much.

42:46We still live in the same house and do the same thing, same gym and all that, but it's taken the, yeah, like you said, the little decisions. For example, I bought Tillamook cheese, which is the really nice cheese. I didn't buy the cheap one. And just because I like Tillamook, I was at their factory a couple of years ago and it's great. So, yeah, I think that's the main thing it does for me as well, Brad. It lubricates day-to-day life. That might not be a good way to put it, but it takes the – what's a better way to put it? I have no idea, but it makes day-to-day life a little bit – you take the thought out of that.

43:17We don't have to think about every single thing we purchase and do. We can just go ahead and do it without giving it that much thought. like buying the$10 roast beef sandwich at Costco. It was okay. For us, a little bit different. So in my head, we had a specific fine number that was maybe a little too aggressive for what my wife was comfortable with. Plus, like I said, I come from the side hustle entrepreneurship side. So I'm thinking I can create value in the world. I can keep working. I don't need to retire. I can scale up, scale down, create new businesses. Again, very confident, just like you, Brad.

43:54So I'm thinking things will be fine, even if some unexpected just happenings go on. So we've had actually a bit of a struggle with that over time because I was like, yeah, we've hit FI. And my wife didn't really think so. She's operating more on like a 3 or 3.25 % just to translate it over and really wants to have a solid plan for like 45 or 50 years, which is great to plan that far, but you have to have a lot of contingencies. You're thinking long-term healthcare, just end of life stuff, which is good to think about. But I was thinking maybe we'll plan for that in 30 years. Maybe we don't need to plan it out right now.

44:38So it has led to some friction. So for us, not only has it kind of shifted, but for me, I felt like the goalpost kept moving further out, which has been a little stressful. But at the end of the day, everything works out fine, being more conservative, because I think after, you know, maybe I take a sabbatical, she quits her full-time job, then we go for a couple years, we'll have a very good view of how much we're spending in retirement. And I think after a couple of years, then we could open it up because you both have stopped working for a couple of years. So you've seen some sequence of returns.

45:17You've seen how this is working. And we haven't hit that point yet. Yeah. And I think that speaks to everybody's in a different situation, right? Like in my case, we haven't started withdrawing money because I have some of these side businesses that make enough to cover our lifestyle. So that's another aspect of kind of fat fi, if you will, of like my money or coast fi, however you want to term, whatever these crazy terms are we throw around these days, it's some combination of all of them in the sense that, yeah, I haven't had to withdraw. So my money is just compounding in the background, which is interesting, but that's not to say these businesses are going to be around forever by any means.

45:56That is going to come to a stop. So yeah, I think this whole thing, it's all just very interesting. I think a lot of it then comes back to this next question that Maggie asked, which I think is interesting. She asked a very specific question, but I'm going to make it broader and then throw it to you guys, which is, she said, now that you've read Die With Zero, do you think you would have taken bigger slash better vacations earlier had you read that then? Or do you think that you can only say that now that you've quote made it? And I think this is actually part of my concern, slight concern, albeit, about where we are today at Chooseify or in the Phi community that I think because so many of us have been in this community for a while and that we're maybe at a more advanced stage in our Phi journey, maybe even approaching a Phi or Fad Phi, that we have been able to loosen the purse strings a lot.

46:51And where we are in our lives and journey is we can spend a little bit more. So that's not inherently bad, obviously. But where my concern is, is would my mindset have been different knowing then what I know now in my late 20s, early 30s? And I think the implication is, am I giving bad advice to people potentially that, oh, you should be spending more? Because I think, frankly, part of this journey is some aspect of delayed gratification, right? like part of this is I'm putting in the work, albeit still living a great life, but I'm putting in the work for that 10, 12, 15 years on my five journey.

47:29And then it's setting up the rest of my life to be dramatically easier. So I don't personally think, I guess my short answer to Maggie's question is like, I don't think that I would have done a lot differently in my twenties and thirties. If I knew then what I know now, I think I would have been a little looser at the margins with some expenses. I think my wife and I didn't hire a babysitter literally ever. And we only had date nights or whatever when my parents or her parents came down. It was like, would it really have killed us? Would it really have killed us to get a babysitter for three hours?

48:08Because in our heads, we're like, oh, well, that's going to be$20 an hour. And then the dinner is going to be another... We were thinking about the nuts and bolts of the money as opposed to just saying like, we're talking a hundred dollars, probably twice a year. And to say that as immaterial is such an understatement, like it's laughable. But in the moment we were doing the calculation, I think we were maybe a little bit too far in the weeds. So I guess like that would be my kind of looking back advice was don't be so far in the weeds that you lose sight of like living a better life in essence, but also understanding that like, you can't just go and spend all your money because then you're just where everybody else is.

48:44Right. So like there is some balance here. So, Corb, what are your thoughts on this? No babysitter, Brad. Literally never. I didn't think you were going to go there. I have a similar story that's just as bad, might be the wrong way to say it, but I worked for 18 years, 25 to 43. And during that time, I never took more than five days off of work. So I never had more than a week of vacation. And I look back now like, what the hell were you doing? You went to fly in these places, you jump on a plane, fly there for three days and fly back or whatever. It's ridiculous. But like you, Brad, I think if Bill Perkins would have came over to my house and hit me over the head with Die With Zero, I don't think it would have made much difference.

49:20Yeah, I think I probably would have been like you, Brad. I think I would have done pretty much the exact same thing, which is kind of sad. I think it's only having this big chunk of money that has liberated me and finally caused me to think different, unfortunately. And I think that's an errand thinking. Like you said, Brad, it's a balance, but you need to enjoy life along the whole way, not just at the end. So would you advise that younger Carl and Mindy to spend more? I think because that's the heart of Maggie's question. Would you advise the younger you to spend more money? Yes, but with guardrails, I would say still get your savings, do your 401k, get all of that stuff correct, get your investments going, but let loose a little bit.

50:02If you're dumping tons of money into post-tax investments because you've already maxed everything out, take some of that and live a little, but don't lose sight. Have that goal always in the back of the head, but focus on life. And yes, I would definitely 100 % advise them to live a little while they're on the path. And I'll push back a little, Carl. I don't even think you have to max everything out if you're moving in the right direction and that's part of your plan. And yeah, I think it's okay. I think it's okay if you're not maxing it out. Yeah, I think that's a good point, Doug. Not all of us might be able to max out these investments either.

50:35As long as you're up. Yeah, I would say just be thoughtful about your decisions. And hey, I'm going to take this trip and it might push my five back by six months. But that's OK, because I'm going to have a great experience when I'm 28 and don't have to wait until I'm 48 to experience the same thing. Yeah. And for me, looking back, you know, my 20s and 30s, I was just ignorant about what I was doing. So I took good trips and looking back, it was actually a nice balance. So I would go into a little credit card debt, as I mentioned before, but it wasn't catastrophic. and I paid it off in short timeframe.

51:12So it wasn't compounding and building up and building up. So I had some fun. If I saw a fun opportunity or a fun trip, I would take it. And over the years, after we got our finances in place and we were saving a little bit more, my wife and I have taken great trips and were really intentional about road trips and eventually moved and did some slow travel. So we really enjoyed it. So looking back, I wouldn't change too much. I maybe would advise, don't drink so much alcohol. You spend a lot of money going out for food and drinks and all that stuff. And I could have still had fun, but just less.

51:52Yeah. Have less fun. I think one thing that, because again, a lot of this comes down to psychology and one thing I've been thinking about, and I don't know if this would have resonated with my younger self, but I think we always tried to save as much as we possibly could. And that was the orientation. Obviously, again, I don't think I ever got to the point of deprivation. So this was not like a sad sack story here by any means, but I think if I were to do it again, I would set a savings percentage and then I would almost intentionally go out of my way to spend every other dollar. And I know this sounds maybe like a distinction without a difference, but I think there is a difference in the sense that when we tried to save as much as we could, it's still the orientation was around the saving instead of around the living.

52:47And I think when you set a percentage, because this is the advice that I've given to my girls or I really truly intend to is, if you can start a framework of a life without having made any mistakes, so this is not any of us in present company or most people certainly, but if you can start a financial life without making mistakes at 18 and just orient around saving some percentage, my advice would be 50%. If you can save 50 % before you've made any mistakes, before you've built a framework of a life that costs anything, You can do anything you want with the other 50%, literally anything. It doesn't matter.

53:23It's irrelevant. You can't help but fall backwards into financial success with a 50 % savings or whatever, 40%. I don't care what the number is, right? And I think that reorientation around the ability and freedom to spend would have been a healthier perspective than that subtle distinction of, which might have ended, frankly, guys, with the same savings rate for us. That's the funny thing. But I think that psychological difference would have helped. And I think it would have then opened up our aperture for what can we spend money on as opposed to let's just save, save, save. So, again, a very subtle distinction, but I hope there's some wisdom there that at least is resonating with someone out there.

54:08And I think I fall into that, too, especially once we figured out, oh, the faster we save, the faster we can stop working. And the hard part for me is when you start measuring something and here we're measuring how much you're saving, then I'm looking at how much we're saving. And if you spend more on something that you didn't need to, you get that premium cheddar cheese or whatever, then you end up making decisions to boost that metric that you're looking at. And it skews everything. So reframing it, like you said, Brad, I think is a brilliant way to do it. Nice. Yeah, Doug, it's just so interesting how this all, everything ties together into this being like this continuum.

54:49And it's been interesting, I've found, to see my own path change. And just like how I've conceptualized FI has really changed along the way. but I wanted to close the loop on something, which might also be something that has changed in our own lives at the very top. So Maggie's question was, am I, am I on track? But that maybe begs the question, like, are there checkpoints along the way? Are there little milestones? And I think way back in the day, we did a stages and checkpoints of five episode, which people could go back and listen to. I'd be curious to go back and listen to that now and see where my own thinking is updated.

55:26But how do we think about checkpoints of FI? Is that something that even crosses your plate? Do you think that's relevant in the new world of Coast FI and Lean FI and all these other things that have changed? I don't think it's relevant anymore. And I think of our community and I think of the podcast and the blogs and the actual physical community of like Camp FI and economy and all that stuff. And it's really easy to get into a comparison game, which is a losing game, whether it's like income or how fast you hit FI or even the checkpoints. It can be a little valuable in some aspect, but essentially if you're following someone on social media and they hit FI at some certain point and you start trying to match them, that is a way to kind of take the fun out of it.

56:20So I would encourage Maggie and her family to think about designing kind of their own game and play that. Think about it like a marathon runner. They're just trying to finish and not get injured most of the time. They're not going to win, right? So they're just trying to run their own race. And I think that's what she should focus on. Oh, that's deep. Run your own race. Carl, what are your thoughts on running your own race, on checkpoints. Do you think there's value in having, like, I remember again, in that old episode, we jokingly had the, Hey, when you have a hundred thousand dollars in net worth, then you're signed up for personal capital.

56:55Like they give you the call basically to see if they can manage your assets, but it was a cute little checkpoint. And we had a whole list of things like that. Do you think there's value in modern day fi and having like overt checkpoints that like we as a community can come together? Or do you think you really should just run your own race? I think you should check in with yourself to make sure money is serving you and that you're happy on your path. But the thing with money, especially if you're an index fund investor, is you're going to do whatever you're going to do. And then the rest isn't saying it's left up to chances.

57:30Sounds like I'm gambling and it's not gambling over the long term, but there's only so much you can do and the rest is going to be out of your control. And I'm the poster boy for thinking wrong because I said I'm going to retire in 1500 days. I'm going to have X amount of money, which was super silly because that stuff is out of your control. It so happened with me that there were good stock market tailwinds and I met my goal. But I hope that happens with most people, but it might not. So if you're checking in on stuff like net worth, I think that is an error. I think you should check in with stuff you can control.

58:01That's your happiness on a money level with your contributions. But then let the rest go. you'll get to fi whenever you get to fi, but you shouldn't think too much about it in between focus on life, not the numbers. Focus on life. And I think the Stoics would echo you control what you can control and run your own race. I mean, I think we, uh, we might've just encapsulated the entire episode here in about 15 seconds. So Maggie, I hope this was useful to you. I hope this was useful to everyone out there listening who, no matter when you're starting on your path to fi, I think this is relevant. I really do.

58:37Because there's not one age, again, to start Fi. It's not that at all. But we all are on this similar journey. And there's a lot of similarities across our entire community. And I think it's been fun to grow and learn as a community in public. And I think this is what's great about being human, right, guys? We can learn. We can update our thinking. We're not stuck intellectually in some year. In 2017, when Choose a Vice started, my own mindset was very different than it is now. And I think I've learned and I've grown across the years. And I hope that we're helping other people think about their own lives critically.

59:14And like Doug said so beautifully, you have to run your own race. And that really is the starting point. So am I on track? Only you can know. And I think that's the beautiful part about the path to financial independence. Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the Chooseify community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player and just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning.

59:49So just head over to chooseify.com slash subscribe. And it's really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsource personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a by local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to choose a by.com slash local, and you'll find a list of all of those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world.

1:00:27And if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or a friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways. Choose a FI episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. And even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up. And it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence? What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life. And then Choose a Vi created a Financial Independence 101 course that's entirely free.

1:01:02Just head to choosefi.com slash fi101. And again, thanks for listening.