Rebelutionaries: Stages of FI | Katie & Alan Donegan | Episode 539

25:29It's about how much you're putting away. And then that compounds and that's the power. And I think you had a message in your newsletter, Brad, it was like, compounding is confusing at the beginning and confusing at the end. And Katie and I have found this, we got super confused at the start because we're like, these people promised me that compounding would help me. Nothing is happening. I want to throw my toys out of the pram. This is rubbish. Why would I continue to save? And it was super confusing. And then at the end, our portfolio can swing up by 100 grand in a month. I'm like, how did this happen?

26:04I don't understand. So I think compounding is one of those things that you struggle to understand at either end of the journey. It's the change. And it's also remembering that when you set your financial independence target, it can feel very overwhelming to a lot of people thinking, well, how on earth am I ever going to save a million, two million, whatever your figure is? and the beauty of compounding is that you don't have to save all of it you put your money in and then the money starts working for you and it's so exciting when you first see that happening and you watch it grow grow grow yeah it is truly remarkable i think that's the wildest thing like i don't think any of the three of us think of ourselves as old right and yet we have gotten to the point where we have seven figures of net worth, right?

26:54And what's remarkable is when you see a year like last year, 2024, where the market goes up more than 20 plus percent. I mean, if you have a million dollars net worth and the market goes up 20%, that means without doing anything, just sitting on your behind, your net worth goes up 200 grand. That is unbelievable. I mean, And that's more money than I've ever made in a year working by nine to five as a CPA or corporate tax manager. That's double the highest year of income I ever had. And that's what's so wild. Like when you think about how powerful it can be, and I think that's really at the beginning, like you're saying, Katie, it doesn't seem like much.

27:34And Alan, to your point, like it's a little confusing on both ends because you can't imagine how powerful it is at the end. You literally can't. Right. Because if you think about it, if you live to be 100, let's say, well, 75%, just mathematically by definition, 75 % of your net worth will have come from the time you were 82 to 100. If we say that it doubles every nine years, so in 18 years, so nine years prior at 91, you'd have 50 % of your net worth. And nine years prior to that, you'd have 25 % of your net worth. So the math works the exact same no matter what, which is what's so insane about this.

28:12but and i love katie's math brain is worrying i can see it in her eyes but at the beginning it doesn't seem like much right because if you have a thousand dollars saved up well 20 return on that is 200 bucks which is not nothing obviously because it is this it's the same percentage but it just it doesn't feel like it's doing as much but i think the important part is we need to take our stupid little brains out of it and realize like feeling has nothing to do with this. This is math. So Katie, I know you're going to want to jump in. I'm just interested in the mindset. So all the examples we've just given are talking about towards the end when you see it taking off and you see it compounding and it feels like it's compounding more quickly.

28:57Of course, as you said, Brad, it's compounding at the same rate as it was at the beginning. So how do we inspire and motivate the people at the beginning to stick with it when they're not seeing, they think they're not seeing those returns in the same way. So for me, it would be every time you log into Fidelity, Vanguard, whatever your platform is, and you invest some money, play this song. Just put it streaming in the background, singing compounding, it's the way to go. And like, drum it into your mind that that is what is happening. And then I think listening to the stories of people who are slightly further down the journey than you.

29:37I don't know if we've ever told you this, Brad. Katie and I had a realization a little while ago. We are currently worth more in terms of our net worth than we ever earned. So we've spent more than we've ever earned. Basically, we've lived for free for our entire life is what I'm trying to say. We've earned this money and we've spent it each year on living, but we're now worth more than we've ever earned. That's incredible. So if you took your salaries for each of your respective careers and added them up, just put them on a spreadsheet, adding them up, the number that would come total then is actually less than your current net worth.

30:20Way less, like absolutely way less. Basically, we have lived for free our entire life, which I just can't get my head around. And why am I telling everyone this? because I want to inspire them. You will not be able to get your head around compounding in a way that you really want to at the start. You have to trust and invest and just get your money in there. And we can tell all these stories and hopefully it inspires people, but you'll never get your head around compounding totally. It's just like we weren't designed to be able to understand it, human brains. Right. Human brains think in a linear fashion, not in an exponential fashion.

31:01It's just the way it works. But I think what's so important and really the article that changed my life and has changed a lot of people's lives was our good friend, Pete, Mr. Money Mustache, his shockingly simple math behind early retirement. And he just has a really simple chart in here and it's your savings rate percentage wise. And then in the next column, it's just then therefore you're working years until retirement. And I think frankly, he like, he might even be a little conservative on this from, from what I've seen when doing the calculations. Right. But he basically says, Hey, hey, if you save 50 % of your income, you have to work for 17 years.

31:35And I think that is a little conservative. It's probably more like 13 or 14 from the numbers that I've run. And you both are nodding along vigorously. But nevertheless, I think what this savings rate does is it gives us and frankly, the fine number generally, which is just, hey, what does my life cost annually multiply by 25, right? So if your life costs 80 grand per year, your fine number is$2 million. dollars. Okay. Those two things can give us this North star for, Oh, finance isn't nebulous. Oh, can I ever retire? You hear all this BS in the media. Like, can I ever retire? What am I going to do?

32:12It's, it's impossible. No, it's not impossible. That's maybe the single biggest thing we've done in the five movement is said, okay, this is so possible, very possible in the sense that you control it. What does your life cost multiply by 25? And you know, very precisely, if I save this percentage of my income, it's this many years I have to work. And to your point earlier, Katie, of course, we're not giving up on people who are finding this in their 50s, 60s and beyond, because it's just a math game. At the end of the day, it's a numbers game. I also have a little bit of a bee in my bonnet about the term savings rate.

32:47So a lot of people come on to our rebel finance school, and they're like, I used to think I was really good with money. You know, I had enough money to go on vacation and to kind of feel like I could do whatever I want and enjoy time with my friends, go out to eat. And they say, I'm really good at saving. But what they're saying is they're good at saving for spending in the future. So I want to start as calling it the investing rate. It's not about how much you save, it's how much you're actually investing, because I can save a bunch of cash and leave it sat there in my checking account and it's not working for me.

33:22Or I can save a bunch of cash and say, well, that's earmarked for a holiday or a vacation that I'm going on next year. But that's not providing for me in the future. And that's why I want to call it investing rate. So that is my plea to the financial independence community. You heard it here first. Let's start calling it the investing rate. I like that. You heard it here first. Damn. I mean, that is really very accurate. Because right, it's two parts, ultimately, Katie, right? Which is what the investing rate, it nullifies these two aspects of the quote unquote savings rate, which is a lot of people just save money, but it's just delayed spending.

33:58They're going to spend it at some point. And also a lot of people with good intentions save money and then don't invest it. It just sits there. And that is not the path to long-term wealth. It really isn't. You need to invest this money. So I like it. I wonder if I can start working that into the vernacular here. We've got one vote for investing rate already. And actually maybe take it one step further. We've also started calling it the freedom rate because you're investing for freedom. Well, that's the whole point. The choose FI song, the choose financial independence, the choose freedom. You're choosing to invest money to buy back time.

34:34And that I think is the whole game is you buy back your time and you can do whatever you want with it. You can hang out with Brad in Singapore and go on roller coasters. You can travel around the world. You can spend time with your grandkids. You can build a tree house in the back garden. Oh, can we do that? Yes. You can buy back your time to do whatever you want, which is a whole game. Alan, you had an entire list and you didn't say Lego. I'm shocked. What's wrong with you? It's because I don't own a house. I have to buy a house if I have to buy Lego. Put it in a tree box. Oh, goodness. thanks for listening to choose a fi and for all your support of our mission here the absolute best way to support choose a fi is when you sign up for your next rewards credit card to use our cards page at choose a bi.com slash cards i keep this page constantly updated so it should always be the top resource for you thanks for being part of our community and for your support okay guys that was fantastic i think we're going to move on to the third song which is the boring Middle.

36:07It ain't the boring middle It's the best part It's time for health and happiness Ooh, I'm ready for life So don't rush through the middle Take your time and join the ride For it's in the so-called boring part That we truly come alive

36:37Every step, a lesson learned Every day, a chance to grow In the middle, we find our peace And the joy that only we can know Focus on the present, embrace the now The middle's where we make our vow To live with purpose, to live with grace So we are ready when we reach that place It ain't the boring middle It's the best part It's time for health and happiness Ooh, I'm ready for life So don't rush through the middle Take your time and join the ride For it's in the so-called boring part That we truly come alive

37:36I like that. I like that a lot. I also wanted to note that every single one of these songs is a completely different genre, which is really cool. You wait for the rap songs later. Ah, okay. Nice. We got a little bit of everything. I love it. So this one's important. And I like how we're kind of methodically going through the five journey here, right? So clearly you picked these four songs for a reason. The boring middle. I think this has become an affectionate thing because we've tried to really nullify it in essence by saying like, it isn't the boring middle. This is the best part. These are, these are the years where I think frankly, the actual numbers and the math part of five, that's the first couple of years, right?

38:21Like once you figure out your money, that is the easiest part of life. But now that's not to say that this is simple, right? And, or that it's overnight, but once you figured it out, I think we would all agree that is the easy part, but the hard part is, okay, I have these years now between where I am and my fine number. And a, I still have to keep working throughout these intervening years and be more importantly, I need to experiment in life and try to figure out what lights me up? What do I want to do when I do get to FI or whatever version of FI that I see fit for my life? And I think that's something that's really changed in the FI community really over the last eight years is it's not just a zero or one.

39:06I'm not FI or I'm FI. I think that was the pre-2017 version of FI. And now there are all these flavors of FI. And I think that's what's fun, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we all need to figure out what the heck we're here for what we're trying to do how we enjoy our years both now and beyond so i'd love to hear hear what you think about the boring middle and just how important it is why it was so important that you wrote a song about i really don't like it when people say i'm in the boring middle because it makes it makes a little part of my soul die because it sounds so sad it's like i'm just trudging through life and it's really boring and I'm just waiting to get to this promised land promised land the future which as we all know well the three of us know nothing magically happens when you hit financial independence and I want to take these people and say this is the cool part this is the part where you figure out what life is about you've automated your finances you have the time and the space because you've got those finances automated to figure out what lights you up to work on your health to work on your happiness so that when you have the freedom of time location possibly as well you can do some cool stuff with it yeah which for me it's about doing the cool stuff along the way and not waiting for that number because if you've automated your finances if you sort it all out like it's not it's not easy but it's not that difficult invest in vt invest in vti put it in a tax advantage account and then get on with living your life and i've been so inspired by watching brad's fitness journey the man has more muscles than i think he had like he has more muscles in one arm now than he did in his entirety when he started the podcast i think his muscles are compounding They are compounding.

41:10It's not linear, it's exponential. But he's using his time for health and building habits and being present and going on roller coasters with his kids and living life. And just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't live your life. So to everyone who's listening this right now, how can you do some of the things you wanted to do in financial independence now? How can you work on your health, live the happy life, spend time with your kids, don't wait for the end it ain't the boring middle it's the best part let's live life now i have this vision of people sat just staring at their spreadsheets waiting for time to pass and i just want them to go and live their lives yeah i mean our lives are so finite right you cannot wish away any portion of a 80 to 100 year life you can't especially not an insignificant amount, right?

42:06We're talking for most people that time from when they figured out their money to when they officially hit financial independence is most likely going to be eight to 15 years, or maybe more frankly, right? So to wish away 10 to 20 % of your, of your life, it makes no sense. So like Katie's saying, sitting in front of a spreadsheet, just watching your money grow. That's not the recipe for a successful life. It truly is not. And as you guys put in the song, focus on the present, embrace the now. And I think how I viewed life certainly these past 10 years is it's an experiment and things are constantly changing.

42:45If we know one thing about life, it's that everything changes. It always does. And if you think it's going to be stagnant or be the same 10, 20, 30 years from now, I'm here to tell you there's no chance. There's no chance of that. You're going to grow in so many ways. You can't imagine. Could any of the three of us have imagined we'd be sitting here today, 10 years ago, it would be laughable, utterly laughable. Right. Like it's, it's insane. So yeah, I think this is the fun part. This is the experimenting part. And also then you get to this point where like us, we have complete or essentially complete control over our time.

43:19And I was talking with a good friend on the phone yesterday and we were talking about, like just how fortunate we are that our quote unquote work, if you will, which is all voluntary is very finite and we can do whatever we want with our time. And we can spend hours at the gym each week. We can spend time. I have phone calls every single week with great friends of mine and just whoever it is that week. I'm like, what a cool thing. Like even if these people don't live in my same city in this day and age with WhatsApp video chat, you can talk to anybody with zoom or Google me. It's so it's free.

43:57You just hop on. You can talk to people. Like that's what I think is so fun about fi is it is on your terms and however you define that. But let's be clear. You need to define it. You have to figure it out. And you also have to understand that even once you've defined it, it might change a little bit. And I know you two are actually perfect cases in point, right? you've been traveling for the better part of five years now, not living in any home base. And I think travel looked very different for you at the beginning than it does now with really something more akin to, hey, we're going to stay in a couple of places for two, three, four plus months across a year and make that a life really.

44:39It changes constantly. And I think that's the fun part is you have complete permission to reinvent yourself at any moment. People will not like that. You know that thing? If a politician ever changes their mind, they will get absolutely rinsed for changing your mind. But actually, what we should be saying is, I learned something new, and I've changed my opinion, and we should celebrate that. You don't have to be consistent. You can reinvent yourself. What I would love to say to people is, if you're not happy with the way things are, change it people are always saying to me i don't like my job well let's change it then and i kind of look left and right and go like what's stopping you can i do that which i think part of it is they can change the way they're thinking about their job as well yeah you can change the way you think about the job you can change the people you work with you can change where you are where you're going you can completely reinvent yourself so if you catch yourself saying i'm in the boring middle we need to reinvent what's going on so you're having fun do not waste those years of your life at any point which kind of actually brings us neatly on to the last song which is about wasting years of your life and i've done it everyone like no one is immune to it you kind of get stuck in things that aren't serving you and you just do them and it's almost as if staying where you are the pain of staying where you are is less than the pain of moving to something you don't know and we evaluate it with that oh well you know i don't like where i am but who knows if i like where i go so we stay where we are and at some point you just have to take a leap and make things happen and it's when i've let's be fair i didn't always take the leap sometimes i was kicked uh I was fired from my last job.

46:38I didn't choose to leave. They chose to leave me. But that firing turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me. And sometimes the universe needs to kick you to get you to do things. And I guess what we're trying to say to everyone here is don't wait for the universe to fire you, to give you a health problem, for something to go wrong. Change now. Change before the universe asks you to change and go and live your life completely. yeah yeah that is it it's take action right this is what we're all constantly saying in our own in our own verbiage but take action you have to you have to so that is the perfect segue to the fourth and final song we're going to play today which is one more year should i work just one more year another day just like the past counting down but moving fast Time tick-tocking on its own Afraid to live a life unknown Held back by now in fear and doubt Clocking in and clocking out Nestle never seems enough Golden years look kind of rough What, what, what Should I, should I work Work just one more year No, no, no, no, no No more wasted years Life's too short to live in fear

48:04One more year will keep me sick Just one more year I'll be okay Done the sums a thousand times Got plans ABC through the same Work, work, work Should I, should I work Just one more year No, no, no, no, no No more wasted years Life's too short to live in fear

48:32Oh, should I work just one more year? What?

48:43What? What? What? Yeah, should I? Should I work just one more year? No, no, no, no, no No more wasted years Life's too short to live in fear

49:15Dows keep swelling in your head Scared to jump, what if I fall? Stay in put, avoid in pain Land and take the easy way Life's too short to live in doubt Take the leap, let joy come out Find new passions, be unleashed Live a life that's truly lived

49:40What should I do? Should I? Should I? Should I? Should I? Should I? Should I? No, no, no, no, no No more wasted years Life's too short to live in fear. No more wasted years. No more wasted years. No more wasted years. No more wasted years.

50:09Life's too short to live in fear.

50:15Oh, I like that one. That song sounds like a hit. That's a great sounding song. Not for nothing. Thank you. So the message, more importantly, one more year. I think this is something that plagues a lot of people in the fight community. Talk to me about this one more year thing. Every event we've been on, we've met you in Bali at Amy Minkley's financial freedom retreat. We went to tribe fire in Australia. We went to black Friday in New Zealand. And there's people there at every single one who have more than enough money. They have multiples over multiples. It's not like the 4%, it's the 2%. And they won't do it.

50:58They just won't quit. And as if they're stuck and we just want to shout to people. It's not as if they're in jobs they love either. They tell us like, oh, I want to leave, but they won't. And then we grill them about their numbers. And then you find out later they've got a spare pension of a hundred grand that they didn't count because they're like, no, I don't count that. And we're just trying to get them to go. The mass is the mass. The mass works. Just leave and get on with living your life. No more wasted years, no more wasted time. Go and do what you want to do. That's the key message. It reminds me of something that Carl, Mr.

51:371500 said, which is people are scared that they're going to run out of money when actually they should be more scared they're going to run out of life they need to get on we all need to this is a message for me and us and all of us as much as anyone else but life is too short to live in fear and maybe you're not doing it with one more year syndrome it even has a name in the fire community because it's such a big thing such a thing the one more year syndrome but in what other ways might you be stopping yourself from doing something that you've been wanting to do, like stop wasting that time and stop living in fear and get on with it.

52:16I'm talking mostly to myself at the moment. Yeah. I mean, this is, uh, this is a big issue. I think a lot of us are naturally a little conservative with our money, certainly. Right. And, and there's always that little vein of fear that runs through us. But what it does is I think people are looking for certainty. And I think it's so misguided, right? Like you are taking a guaranteed certainty of wasting additional years, year or years, right? In this case, of working at a job when you really don't need to in most cases, because you have built in so many layers of conservatism to your numbers, right?

52:58Like you've padded your expenses by 10 or 20%. you've not included here in the U S social security. You've said, Oh, I'm just going to take a 3 % withdrawal rate. Right. So like, this is not a one more year syndrome. That's in that case, that's probably a five more year syndrome. And even still it's hard for people to stop working. And I think that is something we need to get over because yeah. Okay. You might have a 98 % chance of this working, right? But in that case, you didn't waste five, you didn't guarantee waste five years or one to five years in a job. So I think we need to reassess risk is really the most succinct way of putting it.

53:39We need to reassess risk because what's riskier truly, is it, Hey, I've wasted five years of a finite life, or is it, there is a minuscule zero to 2 % chance. And I'm making these numbers up obviously, but zero to 2 % chance that I'm going to have to go back to work for some small amount of money for a couple of years, right? Like that's what we're talking about here. And I think that to me is what's most frustrating about the whole concept of one more year syndrome. Which I always had this theory of you can choose your risk. Risk is inherent. There's always a risk, but you get to decide which one it is.

54:15Do you want to risk running out of life? Do you want to risk running out of money? Do you want to risk running out of working like time, you can choose your risk. The question is, which one do you want? And I had a thought as we were talking, Brad, could you have retired earlier? Like looking back at your number, could you have gone earlier? Like what's happened since? Did you like without knowing do this? Yeah, that is, that's interesting. So I think my story, my five journey is inextricably linked with entrepreneurship. So it's harder to say. I think what I can definitively say is under the new understanding of FI, which to me is something more akin to a COS FI or a lean FI or whatever, barista FI, whatever these different options are, but let's say COS FI, COS FI most specifically.

55:10When I stopped working in early 2015, I think for me, it was, again, it was that zero or one. It was, I'm not FI technically, so I need to keep earning a good bit of money, like my CPA salary kind of money. And those were the only options. Whereas I think to really answer your question, at that point, I had this small website called Richmond Savers that was making a little bit of money. Maybe$1 ,000 or$2 ,000 a month, which is not nothing at all. And our lives just didn't cost that much back then. And we were both CPAs. We could have just worked for a month or two during tax season, plus this little bit of money that was coming in for my businesses.

55:54Like, I think by any definition, I was close by and probably a year or two earlier, but I didn't realize it because I just didn't know enough. So I think had I not made this jump to entrepreneurship, I think I probably would have succumbed to one Maria syndrome at the time with the limited knowledge that I had. But I think that's what's so cool about, hey, over the last decade, we've all learned a lot about phi. We've all learned a lot more about how this works. And I think the Brad of 2025 would be at the point where, okay, I think I've got this. I understand this. And I'd like to believe that I wouldn't succumb to one Maria syndrome.

56:33So Alan, I don't know if that necessarily answered your question, but hopefully it gave a broader answer that's more applicable. Well, I think it's interesting. It's a very interesting answer for everyone. The version of financial independence that exists today is far more nuanced, far more accessible for your average person to go, oh, this is the version that I want. This is what I want to do. I still think there is some messages we really need to get home to people, which we've been talking about in this episode. But given what we know now, you actually left work a little bit early, Katie. But given what we know now and what has happened, you go, oh, the power of compounding is far beyond what I could have ever imagined.

57:13And if I went back and played the game again, I'd probably invest a bit earlier. I would probably leave a bit earlier. I tweak a few different things. And I would play a lot more into having the time to actually do what I want to do. And a lot more into like feeling free to really create things, do things, make a difference. And then I guess the reason for answering that question and asking you that question is to share what we've learned with the people listening to the podcast and say, don't work another year. You probably don't need to. We've learned so much about how this works. and every time you're thinking of working another year, play that song or play the compounding song to persuade yourself that you don't have to.

57:58And that song, the singer of that song is actually my business partner, Simon Payne. Okay. So just get Simon screaming at you, no, no, no, don't do it. Get out there and live your life. No, live your life. I don't think we could come up with better parting words than that. It's no, no, no, live your life. right i think at the end of the day that's what we all need to do we need to understand this is truly not a numbers game look obviously the numbers are important but it's not a numbers game it's a go out and experiment and figure out what you want out of your life game and i just want to say to the two of you you are shining examples of precisely that and i i'm so proud to call you friends great friends and i'm just so blown away by what you do in the world and just the amazing amount of energy you put into all these projects.

58:51You have seven different projects going on at once. It's unbelievable. And I'm just consistently blown away. And thank you for putting this album together for the FI community, but really for beyond the FI community. And I think this episode could be a starting point for FI, frankly, because I think it touched on really four incredibly essential aspects of our entire journey. So thank you for putting it together. I think this is really great. It's our pleasure. We absolutely love you and we love the Phi community. The Phi community and the knowledge that was shared by Pete, JL Collins, the mad scientist, you, that enabled us to buy our freedom.

59:34And we almost see it as our duty to share that with a new generation. And that's what we want to do with this music is people teach by blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels, books, but no one's ever written a music album that you can play in a car when you've got your friend trapped with you for seven hours. You can play it on repeat. They will eventually ask, why are you playing a song about index investing? They'll ask, why is there a song called quit like a millionaire this is weird why is there a song called badassity that's a strange word they will be totally and utterly confused hopefully in a way that opens their mind to finding out more and that's our entire purpose lots of us that find this want to share it with people don't we we want to encourage other people to think about their lives in a different way and when i first discovered financial independence i went into the very preachy phase I wish I'd had this tool to sort of pry open the door into a conversation with someone and just pique their interest and we'd love it if this music was something that could do that for people for their partner for their kids for their friend that they really want to talk to about it play it at a dinner party if you're a teacher play the compounding song at school whilst you're teaching maths.

1:00:56It's a completely clean album. There's no swear words, even in Quit Like a Millionaire, although there will be an explicit version of that that you can buy at home. But play it at a dinner party, play it in the car, play it for your kids, use the music to sing along to the messages. And our hope is we can help an entire new generation of people live these messages. And they'll be singing the Choose FI anthem at every single Choose FI meetup. We'll play it on the songs. We'll talk about 40 buck organic free range chicken and not buying it and avoiding Eddie Jones and all those messages. And Brad, keep doing what you're doing.

1:01:37Keep sharing the message. Your podcast is just constant inspiration and energy. And we admire what you have created. Thank you, my friends. I really appreciate it. And yeah, this is really cool. I absolutely love that you created this. I want to give a big acknowledgement to Finn as well, the third member of Revolutionaries, who is not on the podcast with us today, but he is the musical wizardry that has pulled all these tracks together. And he's awesome. Love it. Yeah. I met Finn at Economy last year, and really great guy. And yeah, just a wonderful album. Thank you again. And we have all the links in the show notes.

1:02:16So again, it's Revolutionaries. You can find it on Spotify and basically anywhere you can find music. So check it out. And again, thank you for being here.

1:02:50Really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsource personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have choose a by local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to chooseify.com slash local, and you'll find a list of all of those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world.

1:03:23And if you're just getting started with FI, or you have a family member or a friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways. Chooseify episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. And even though it's a couple of years old at this point, it still stands up. And it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence? What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then Choose a Vi created a financial independence 101 course that's entirely free.

1:03:58Just head to choosefi.com slash fi101. And again, thanks for listening.

1:04:12Thank you.