DOJ Accelerates Probe Into Alaska Spoiler Candidate Claims

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0:45Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Tonight, stunt casting. Alaska and the feds investigate the alleged scheme by Democrats to recruit a spoiler candidate. We now believe that that's probably just the tip of the iceberg, to be honest with you. Plus, the Trump and Biden administrations weren't the only ones to investigate Ilhan Omar's marriage.

1:21A new report says it started under Barack Obama. You are not related to him at all. Not that. There's not some weird kernel of truth that's through some game of television. Not to my knowledge. Also, forget the polls. Is the decline of Fox News ratings a predictor of this election? And if America's politics has changed so dramatically over the past decade, should history really be an indicator of how this all turns out? I think people are completely underestimating how different American politics is going to be on Wednesday. Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Xochitl Hinojosa, Joe Borelli, Adrian Elrod, and Mark Preston.

2:05Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

2:26Good evening. I'm Michael Smirconish in New York for Abby. There are five days to go until the midterms and more than 40 million voters have cast their ballots. President Trump will travel to Florida tomorrow in this, the final stretch. But in a last-minute strategy shift, he scrap stops in Iowa and Kansas and plans to hold tele-rallies instead. New CNN polling shows Democratic candidates maintaining leads in key Senate races in Michigan and Texas. Let's talk about Alaska, where a bitter battle is brewing over whether Democrats sought to dupe voters in the Senate contest there. It follows that New York Times report alleging Democrats aligned with Mary Peltola's campaign to recruit a candidate with the same name as her Republican challenger, incumbent Dan Sullivan.

3:08Trump's Justice Department has now accelerated its investigation into the reported scheme, issuing more than 40 subpoenas. Separately, the DOJ filed a revised version of its lawsuit, seeking to potentially block the certification of the state's Senate results. Alaska's governor also investigating to see if the plot violated state laws and whether it warrants criminal charges. For their parts, Trump and his vice president seizing on the storm to sow doubt ahead of the midterms. This is voter fraud at the highest level. And the Democrat candidate who was involved in the scheme, Mary Peltola, should be removed from the ballot and prosecuted.

3:49And so should the fake Dan Sullivan. I think it's a criminal act what they did because it was a conspiracy. It wasn't just it didn't just happen. Well, I think we should certainly look into whether she committed election fraud. She is trying to steal a Senate seat from the voters of Alaska, and it's disgraceful. So whether it's criminal or not, she certainly has committed, I think, a great moral failing, and hopefully the voters of Alaska punish her. Before we open it up to the table, we invite you at home to join the debate. Head to CNN.com slash Abby and weigh in. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the course of the program.

4:22Sochi, as you well know, the DOJ tries to avoid overt actions so close to an election. But here, the alleged conduct relates to the election. So how quickly should they be moving? Well, so you're right. There's a 30-day rule about not doing any overt actions before an election. Yes, there are issues when it comes to voting and elections that DOJ can sometimes get involved in. I will tell you, there hasn't been a Republican administration or a Democratic administration that has ever investigated or prosecuted ballot stacking that I am aware of. This is the first time that I have seen something like this happen.

4:59You think they should ignore it? This is just typical, not of DOJ. I don't know what the federal law is that is currently being broken. When there are issues involving elections and the federal law, like the Voting Rights Act or other different laws on our books, then, yes, the Justice Department should investigate it. But I am not clear what exactly the Justice Department is investigating and what federal law was broken here. Ballot stacking happens all the time. And if they believe that there is a federal law that has been broken, that no lawyer I've spoken with can name one, then why aren't they investigating Republican ballot stacking in certain states as well?

5:40I'm at the DOJ. Yeah. I open up the Times. I read that story. I'm closing it and putting it away. I'm not looking at a potential case of fraud that needs to be investigated. Well, when it comes to DOJ, again, they can look into it, believe that there is a federal law that has been broken. But this is not that. This is the President of the United States calling for an investigation when I am not aware, and I don't think any lawyer has been aware of what federal law is broken. Yes, there are things that are state matters. There are things that can happen and that are local matters. But also, a state Supreme Court has already looked at this.

6:16No, they didn't. They looked at whether the person was qualified under state law to be on the ballot. You said that this happens all the time. Can you name one candidate on the ballot right now that's facing a Republican ballot-stacked imposter candidate? Can you name any of them? It's happened in Ohio before. I'm not saying. It happened in Florida, and there was an investigation where the Republican actually went to jail. That's a good thing. People trying to cheat on elections went to jail. Miami-Dade County, which is fine. Okay, the Justice Department did not investigate them. This is the difference.

6:44You have your chance. I know, but you're challenging me. What federal law is broken? I would like to know what federal law is broken. If the people in the case after the Alaska authorities brought the case into Alaska court, if they perjured themselves, perjury is a crime, if you're aware of that. If they perjured themselves in that case at the trial level or the appellate level through motions, they would be guilty of perjury. That is not what they're saying. Not to mention there's a federal election law aspect into this, too. Because if you are being a paid Democratic staffer on the campaign of Mary Peltola, you are presumably spending your campaign resources advancing the candidacy of Mary Peltola, not Dan Sullivan the imposter.

7:20And conversely, if you're out there spending money on Dan Sullivan the imposter, you shouldn't be actually the secret beneficiary of your time and resources, Mary Peltola. Those are FEC violations. Well, first of all, ballot stacking, to such a point, is legal. It happens a lot. It happens across the country. Both parties do it. Republicans do it a lot, too. Number one. Number two, Republicans recruited some guy who was in jail in New York to run in the primary against Mary Paltola in 2024. So let's not pretend that there are not other shenanigans that have happened down here. Number three, you can question the tactics of this.

7:53But the bottom line is when you look at the ballot, first of all, Dan Sullivan, the incumbent, says incumbent on the ballot. So it's very obvious who it is, number one. Number two, Republicans are just worried because right now Democrats look like they are very well positioned to quite possibly take the Senate. It could get them down to this seat. They're practically giddy saying, oh, my gosh, like, yay, we get to try to, like, come up with some sham investigation to try to alter this election. When really it is the will of the voters. You talk about the will of the voters, this going against them.

8:22The voters are the ones who are going in there doing rank choice voting, and they are seeing who they're voting for. The sham is one of the DNC or DFCC operatives saying, have I got a scheme for you in a text message to which they were talking about the scheme to put Dan Sullivan, the imposter, on the ballot. Again, you can question the tactic, but it's not illegal. Can we take a look? Mike, I remember there was in 2016, 2017, sorry, there was seven Democratic members of Congress who voted to try to not certify Trump's election because Russia was confusing voters through the Internet. I really want to talk about certifying an election.

8:55Certifying an election. I'm just not a fan of, but they, but they, but they, but they. Let's talk about the here and now. Here's Mary Peltola yesterday commenting on this issue. Let's watch. This is just another distraction. It's another diversion. Every day it's some new, you know, look over here moment. This is all stuff to sell newspapers. This is all stuff to get subscriptions. Nobody at The New York Times cares about affordability in Alaska. Mark, she failed the Lanny Davis standard. Tell it early, tell it all and tell it yourself. And then move on as quickly as you can and then talk about whatever you want to talk about.

9:37Two things can be right, though. They distract. Donald Trump is great at distracting. Look over here at the shiny object. At the same time, it appears that her campaign has been caught right handed being involved in something that might not be illegal, but it's morally reprehensible. We understand that. But that's what politics is right now. And the problem with this issue, Michael, as we know, is that neither side wants to give in and say, OK, we're wrong. We got it. But let's let's go back to ground zero and let's try to clean this all up because they'll say, But what about? What about? What about?

10:09Because you can keep on doing the what about game and saying, you know, you've been doing this for years. You've been doing this for years. And that's why we'll never, ever see any kind of campaign finance. Look at you, a tiger in the tall grass, just sitting there quietly waiting for your moment. Here it is. You know, Peltola talks a lot about the rigged system. In fact, it's part of her campaign material. It's like on her social media. Today she had a tweet, you know, I'm going to unrig the system. This is literally rigging the system against the voters of Alaska. Whether it's illegal or not, I'm sure there'll be an investigation.

10:41I do think this entire election has been, you know, a little bit about the elites and can the elites rig the system against me as a regular person. There is no question, no one here can question whether an elite like Peltola tried to rig the system in Alaska to steal this election. That is exactly what happened. It is a rigged election by her own hands. So you've got a candidate talking about things that are rigged, and she, it turns out, is the chief rigger in Alaska. And I think the voters ought to take it into consideration. Last night, a guest on this program said that James O 'Keefe was recently arrested for impersonating a voter in Minnesota.

11:18For the record, he wasn't arrested, but he was charged with two felonies, including one for unlawful voting by misrepresenting someone else's identity when applying for a ballot. Important to note, neither he nor the other man with him voted because they aren't residents there. Interesting poll result relative to how important character and competence are with the voters in Alaska. Put that on the screen. Ten percent, ten percent say character and competence are the most important issues in determining their votes for Congress. You're shaking your head looking at that. I was surprised. I wouldn't have I would have thought it was all economy.

11:54But if ten percent, if that swings this race, it could determine the outcome. Yeah, and I think that that is happening. Character incompetence is also something that is across the country that is currently happening with the Republican Party. And that's something that voters care about. Just look at what's happening in my home state of Texas with Ken Paxton. Character is an issue. The fact that he is someone who is corrupt and indicted by his own party. We're talking about Alaska. Is this good character or not? What I'm telling you is that I'm telling you that character is an issue across the country.

12:26Does this show good character or not? That will be up to the voters. But yes, I do think that 10 percent could make that could potentially make the difference if for some reason voters decide that this is something that really bothers them, etc. It definitely could decide the race. Governor Dunleavy weighing in on this today. Let's take a look at what he had to say.

12:47We knew there was something going on there, but we're also somewhat surprised by the revelations. And we now believe that that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. It's so unfortunate on the timing. There was an opportunity back in June to remove this individual from the ballot. And we'll see where this leads us. But if it leads to civil issues, civil issues, criminal charges, we'll pursue it. I mean, it's it's a dog's breakfast, to be honest with you. It's a it's a it's a mess. He says tip of the iceberg makes me wonder what he might know, what else is coming. But credit to The New York Times, you know, so far away from Alaska and yet putting all the pieces together.

13:27They got 12 sources. They got text messages. They did a great job. Every once in a while, The New York Times does some journalism that they can be proud of. And this is one of those stories. Well, hold on. You know, they did wait till like a quarter of the people voted already before. But it's not like they wait for anything. The comment was about the tip of the iceberg. The case I referenced earlier about Florida, the person who cheated, the party that cheated, that state senator was a Republican and she won. and she's still in office. That's why Trump moved to potentially not certify the election if these numbers are within the margin of error.

13:57And that investigation, which happened after the election, uncovered that the candidate who was the imposter was offered some sort of compensation. That only came out of an investigation that happened after the fact, but it was too late to reverse the course on the actual election. Can I also just remind everybody here of something that Trump recently said when this all started where he said, we will investigate if Mary Paltola wins. I mean, that to me tells you everything you need to know about the bias, the purpose, the intent of this investigation. He only wants to investigate it, or at least he said initially, he will have concerns if Peltola wins.

14:33He said wins by the margin. But if Sullivan wins, it's totally fine. And they filed a motion in court to actually start the investigation. Yeah, but if Sullivan wins, he's totally fine. He's going to drop everything. Mark, you want in on that quickly? I just want to say, let's not be Pollyanna about it. It's been going on for years and years and years, and she got caught. I mean, that's the reality. She got caught at a time that's not good for her campaign. And Democrats who've been playing this very smart moral card took a hit. And that's just the reality. Next, another Times report says there was evidence that Ilhan Omar had a sham marriage and the investigation started under President Barack Obama.

15:07Plus, the polls and the pundits all predict a blue wave. But could the real indicator of the election be Fox News ratings? We'll discuss.

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16:25Tonight, a new report finds investigations into Minnesota Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's past marriage go as far back as the Obama administration. The New York Times spoke with current and former law enforcement officials who say a probe was launched in the summer of 2016 over allegations that Omar married a man suspected of being her brother. At issue, according to the Times, is her marriage in 2009 when she was already a U.S. citizen to Ahmad Nur Sed Elmi, a British citizen whom she divorced in 2017. Those sources also say investigators did uncover some evidence of fraud, although it wasn't clear what was found then or even now.

17:02However, the case ultimately stalled because it fell outside the statute of limitations. A spokesperson for Omar denied those claims in a statement to the Times as baseless, disgusting conspiracy theory and a desperate political smear. Federal officials already looking into potential fraud in Omar's immigration paperwork. Meanwhile, President Trump has only stepped up his attacks on the Democratic congresswoman while on the campaign trail. Just send her back. Who the hell wants her? Ilhan Nur Said Elmi, her real name, has openly admitted to fraud, and she will not be legally allowed to be a member of that august body of politicians.

17:42You know what I hated about her? I don't, you know, look, life is life, and you do, you do your thing. But she comes from this horrible, horrible place. It's a shithouse country. And then she goes, my constitutional rights have been disobeyed. I'm entitled constitutionally to time and court. You know, she's always throwing around the Constitution. And she wants to tell us how to run the United States of America. I don't think so. Sochi, at the outset of the program, I came to you and I said, relative to Alaska, DOJ is not supposed to take overt actions. but I get it because the underlying conduct there allegedly pertains to the election.

18:24That's right. October 12, DOJ carried out a search warrant relative to Congresswoman Omar, which seems different. Absolutely right. They could have done that a few weeks before to avoid the 30-day window, or they could have waited until after the election to take that conduct. Normally what happens if you only do conduct within the 30 days, especially when it involves a candidate on the ballot, if for some reason you believe that someone is at risk, they're going to flee the country or whatever that is. There's a national security implication. And when that does happen, you normally have senior career officials make that decision.

19:01It is never political appointees that make that decision. In this matter, what it seems that is happening is it is Donald Trump who is the one for quite some time has called on this to happen. And now what to me, all of these things, whether it be Alaska, whether it be Omar, whether it be the two FBI agents that were charged recently, whether that be the Cassidy Hutchinson failed indictment, all of those things, to me, seem like a package of things coming out of DOJ to ensure that his base turns out to vote. These are the things that the base want. And instead, DOJ is acting like a political arm of the White House.

19:40Adrian, two things can be true at the same time, that the DOJ is being weaponized in this case. and that the underlying conduct on the part of Congresswoman Omar is problematic. No? Well, look, sure, two things can be true at once. But here's the bottom line. Ilhan Omar has said time and time again that she's not married to her brother. She's made it very, very clear. Has she made it clear? Well, she's not because she divorced him, right? Yeah, she's made it. Okay, it's 2017, but she's made it extremely clear. So, number one. Number two, to Sochi's point, I'm going to go a little bit of a step further because she's talking about the mechanics of DOJ and how it works.

20:12This is definitely Trump weaponizing DOJ to go after someone who he does not agree with, to try to race bait, to try to gin up his base because of her ethnicity. Let's also remember why Ilhan Omar is in the United States in the first place. She fled Somalia as a refugee during the Somalia Civil War. She came to the United States. She became a naturalized citizen at the age of 17. And she's now a sitting member of Congress. This is the American dream. And this is literally Trump and the matter of Republicans. trying to go after her time and time again. But marrying anyone for the sole purpose of obtaining a green card is illegal.

20:47But she's made it clear this is not her brother. Allow me to just push back on one thing, and you can be the first to respond. Here's what she said to Chris Hayes. Let's all watch. There are right-wing people who believe that this man was your brother. Right. You have called it a disgusting lie. Right. Who was this man that was your husband? When did they start saying that he was your brother? Why? Why? It started with the Somali blog. Right wing conspiracy theorists in Minneapolis got a hold of it and they just kind of went and found random people who were like, she introduced us, she introduced him to us and said he was her brother, which is insane.

21:31I mean, I don't know those people that they talk about. You were not related to him at all? Not that. There's not some weird kernel of truth that's through some being a telephone. Not to my knowledge. Okay, not to my knowledge. Again, I quote Lanny Davis, tell it all, tell it early, tell it yourself. She didn't do that. Well, I saw that as her and Chris Hayes both smiling about the absurdity of this and her saying in jest, sort of sarcastically, not that I know of. That is the way that I saw that interview. But again, why is she even on the defense on this? This is a woman who was elected by her constituents, who has an amazing story that is truly the epitome of the American dream.

22:07She's only talking about this because Republicans, right-wing bloggers, the MAGA extremists, whatever you want to call them, Trump, have gone after her and have tried to make this front and center. Now you've got DOJ coming in, opening up an investigation right before she's on the ballot, which should not be happening. Adrienne, Barack Obama and his administration are not MAGA right-wing extremists. The whole genesis of this panel is that there's a story in the New York Times saying that back during the Obama years, They investigated and they found evidence that, in fact, she had committed this fraud.

22:37In fact, it was just the statute of limitations, apparently, that saved her. You say it's the American dream. That's interesting. Then why does she go around crapping on America all the time? There's not a single member of the U.S. Congress who talks worse about our country than Ilhan Omar. I agree with you. It's an interesting story. She came here. I mean, you make it sound like it's a nice story. Her father was a Soviet-trained colonel in a brutal communist regime who probably committed a bunch of war crimes. That's how she got here. How in the world we took him in in the first place, I'll never know why anybody thought that was a good idea.

23:08It's an interesting story. But then why does she tell everybody at any chance that America is a terrible place? She doesn't. She does all the time. No, she doesn't, Scott. And we'll roll the tape when it's over. But the fact is, she's here, and these are legitimate questions raised by journalists at the New York Times and raised by investigators in Barack Obama's administration. This is no conspiracy. The conspiracy defense exploded today. Mark, you're sitting there like an oracle at the end of the table. Be the sage. Let me say this. Three things can be true, okay? I said two things can be true at the same time.

23:44The first thing is that, look, maybe there is some questions about our citizenship. And, yes, they should be looked into. This should not be the time that they should be looked into. Yes, it's true that the Trump administration does a very good job of obfuscating and is clearly using the Department of Justice as some kind of tool in this election. And anyone who says otherwise is kidding, okay? Kidding, I say. But here's the third thing. America doesn't care about the 30-day rule, and that is true. If they believe that she came to this country under false pretenses, they don't care if that investigation begins today or if it begins 30 days from today.

24:21They want that investigation to begin. So I do think in the grand scheme of things, Donald Trump has no accountability to anyone. The Justice Department is going to be used as a tool, as he so chooses. And then we'll just have to pick up the pieces and whatever comes out after the election. Joe, you want to praise the Times investigation again? No, I mean, I'm glad they finally got to some truth on this. I mean, this is something that's been investigated. Let's not forget, her brother, purported brother, didn't even get citizenship at the time because of these very same questions. Okay, whoever he is, he left the country.

24:53He left the country when the heat came. I think that's an important part of the story. The heat came because he was probably her brother. Let's be honest about that. That's sort of the opinion of pretty much anyone who's looking on the outside, wondering why she couldn't answer the question. Hey, are you married to your brother? You know, if someone asked me if I was married to my sister, it would be a pretty affirmative no if they were being serious. You saw that hard-hitting interview by Chris Hayes. You know, I've never seen a journalist give a lighter touch on a member of Congress who was under federal investigation for multiple crimes.

25:24This undermines her credibility on, obviously, this case. It undermines her credibility on her financial filings, on her own immigration system. And it gives the Trump sort of narrative that the Democratic Party is okay with fraud, whether it be on immigration or anything else. It fulfills the Trump prophecy of this is the party of fraud. It's a twofer. It's a fraud and it's an immigration story in the eyes of Trump. Next, the president loves to talk about television ratings, But is he seeing warning signs coming from his old favorite outlet? Fox News will discuss.

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26:22Tonight, with just five days to go until the midterms, we're all stuck reading the tea leaves. There's the polling data, the prediction markets, the pundits, the ad spending, the earned media, the vibes. It's hard to know what to make of it all, but could bad Fox News ratings be a sign of things to come for Republicans? As President Trump urges voters to pretend that he's on the ballot, his most powerful television ally is suffering a record decline in viewership, and it's keeping him off the airwaves. Normally, cable news ratings, they surge during election seasons. It's evidence of excitement, anticipation, the gravity of the moment, as millions of Americans cast ballots to select their new leaders.

26:59Shockingly, October was Fox's lowest-rated month since December of 2023, and viewership is down 27 % year over year. To make matters worse for the president, through Wednesday, the network took just nine of his 24 campaign speeches live during his fall midterm blitz. Mark, the Redskins, there's a rule. It used to be, I think, that if the team, pardon me, the commanders, whoops, the commanders, if they win their final game of the season at home, then the incumbent gets reelected as president. Is this one of those kind of standards or rules that if you're down on Fox and you're a Republican, it's a bad sign?

27:39Yeah, yeah. And let's see what happens to the commanders, right, on our state. No, look, I think we're seeing is this diversification of how people consume media. I mean, it's just we're seeing it across the board. Like if you look at my children, you know, my children who are 21, 22 years old, you know, they're not necessarily going to a linear television to try to get their news. And I probably I think we're seeing that across the board. Now, what is striking in all this, though, is what's killing Donald Trump is that only nine of 24 of those rallies were shown on Fox. And that's the energy that he draws.

28:10he loves the fact that Fox not only shows it, but then will spend hours of it talking afterwards. Scott, I know what he would say. He would say their ratings are down because they only took nine of the 24 rallies. If they put me on more, they'd have higher ratings. And by the way, let me say before they say it about us, their ratings are larger than ours. Acknowledged. Go ahead and answer. Yeah. I don't know about the vagaries of this. I think Mark's on to something about people watching and consuming content in different ways. I mean, take CNN, for instance. I mean, you know, a few hundred thousand people will watch this show, but millions more will consume it via the clips and the other, you know, the bite-sized things that come out in the aftermath.

28:50So that doesn't necessarily show up in the ratings, but it does show up in our digital footprint. I think Fox still has a pretty massive digital footprint on that front. You know, 24 rallies, I mean, that's a lot of television time. And so I would assume if you're programming something over the course of a month to show this effectively the same show night after night after night might trigger a problem. I mean, getting nine on is a lot, in my opinion. But now it's 24 hours. I mean, we work in cable news. There are 24 hours a day. Nine is not a lot. But but but but overnight, it's a lot of reruns.

29:22I mean, they're they're reshowing the things that are on during primetime. I'm just saying the president's out giving speeches. I think they're all very newsworthy. But these are long speeches. You know, I mean, it's not like a 10 minute speech. You're talking about hour, 90 minutes. So, so, so, so, from the Hollywood Reporter, they suffered the largest year to year ratings drop in the month before an election in the past 10 years. It's a pretty stunning metric. It is a stunning metric. And it's pretty bad for Republicans who are running in tough districts for one reason. Many Republicans will not go on other on other networks.

29:56They will not go on CNN. They will not go anywhere else to reach other voters. They all go on Fox News. What will happen? You will see every person running for U.S. Senate or governor or in a tough congressional district on Fox News. And they have been this entire cycle up until Election Day. That's how they turn out their voters. They have a problem with their base. They have to go on television. So if people are not watching Fox at those numbers, they're not getting their message out. That is their safe space to do that. And so a place like my home state of Texas, which has been read for quite some time, those candidates will be on there nonstop.

30:36Is that going to help them on Election Day? I am not sure if your ratings are down. And I think there is something to be said. I mean, I completely hear what you're saying, Mark. You're more of an expert on this and in television consumption than I am. But there is something to be said about Trump fatigue. People are burned out. We're seeing it in the polls. We're seeing it in the low numbers of people who are coming to his rallies. There is a lot of Trump fatigue. There's a lot of frustration with the Republican Party, and I think that that is being reflected in Fox's numbers. Now, conversely, I will also say in the last few presidential campaigns I worked on, we always try to make sure that we have a presence on Fox News, whether it's with candidates, surrogates, et cetera, because there are a lot of independents, a lot of Democrats, and some gettable Republicans who watch it, too.

31:15So it's an important network to those of us on the Democratic side. But I think there is something to be said about real Trump fatigue with the numbers going down. Joe, I want you to react to what the president said on this issue. Put that up on the screen if you would. Fox News says President Trump in a truth posting is spending far too much time putting on opponents, all caps, of Republican Party candidates, to Adrian's point. People that love our country and have great policies and ideas. These American patriots are being absolutely blurred out by the media and Fox is doing little to help. That's the only reason this race is close, if indeed it is close.

31:50President Donald J. Trump, your thoughts? Yeah, I actually think the president is a little wrong on his premise because I think the numbers don't actually bear out the idea which we're speaking about. You look at CNN and MSNBC previously and MSNOW's numbers in 2016 and 2024, two years leading up to the election, were some of their biggest audiences ever on earth. And those were two years where Republicans did pretty darn well. Fox, to your point, has 3.8 billion viewers on YouTube over the last, since January 1. That's Mr. Beast's territory. They are bigger influencers than perhaps we'd like to admit.

32:24They're bigger influencers than the Hassan Pikers. So this is more about the changing ways Americans consume media. You know, to what Trump said, I see his point. A lot of other networks claim to be unbiased. They tend to be a little biased to the left. Fox clearly leans to the right. I think he would hope there's more support from the network. It's been a source of contention between him and the executives there for a long time. Just one more way to frame the data, and Mark, you can respond. In the past decade, none of the three biggest cable news outlets has suffered a decline in the month before a national election as big as Fox News did this year.

33:00Something's at foot. So as AJ says, there's definitely Trump fatigue. I mean, you almost think that, like, it goes back to the days where you want to give Donald Trump, like, a highball and a cigarette, and he just kind of goes off and he does his schtick for an hour. That's what he does when he goes up there. He's not talking about policies. He's talking about crazy things. He's talking about the Kennedy Center. He's talking about how he's going to make a beautiful golf course. I mean, that's why we're not seeing him on the campaign trail in these closing days. That's why he's going to do these teletown halls.

33:25But the reason why Fox isn't putting him on, it comes down to like a very, very basic answer. It's a financial decision, right? We're a business. We're all businesses. And if they don't think that by putting him on that it is going to hurt their bottom line, then they're not going to put him on. And so clearly they see something in the data that says it's hurting their bottom line. Right. He thinks it's deliberate. And you're saying it's all about the ratings. It's all about money. It's all about money. Of course. How much of it on the audience side? Because I think you're right. There are Democrats and independents who watch it.

33:55I mean, is it possible that some of the fall off has just been Democrats have decided they don't want to watch it? I don't think so. I don't know. I mean, I think there could be a lot of factors. I'm just saying, there's a lot of factors at play here. Their ratings are down because the Democrats who normally watch them are not. There may be more Democrats that watch Fox than watch us. They've got a big audience over there. Next, is Tuesday night going to be a pivotal turning point in the Trump era? A veteran Democratic strategist told me today he thinks that it is. We'll explain and then debate.

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35:18Could Tuesday mark the beginning of a post-Trump era? Here's veteran Democratic strategist Doug Sosnick, a former senior advisor to President Clinton, with a bold take on my radio show this morning. I think people are completely underestimating how different American politics is going to be on Wednesday compared to where it is today. And there are several factors for that. Tuesday is going to, I think, mark the end of politics in the age of Trump in America. Since he wrote down that escalator in 2015, he's been the single dominant figure in American politics, both Republicans, where he took over the party, hostile takeover.

35:58The Democrats, we've largely, for the last 11 years, have been focused on basically just opposing him. We haven't stood for anything. The 2020 election is going to be an election about America after the age of Trump. Does Wednesday bring the end of the age of Trump's politics? Oh, no. I mean, he's got two more years. I mean, of course, he will be in lame duck status. He can't run again. But what he says about the future of the Republican Party on, say, who's going to be our next nominee will matter tremendously. He also, like all presidents coming down to the end, they want to leave a legacy and he'll have things to say about that.

36:35Even if the Democrats were to take control, I assume he's going to be looking to try to do a few things on the way out the door. So, no, I think he's still going to be very relevant, but you can't change the way the system works. He's not running again, and when you're not running again, you know, the political system grinds on. Joe, how diminished will he be if it ends up the way that people think it will? Look, I mean, you know, in some ways it puts him back on his fighting foot. We know the Democrats, right? We talked about this in the break. There's probably a dozen, two dozen Democrats who want to work on impeaching him.

37:07That's sort of the version of Trump where he sometimes feels the most comfortable, where he's constantly on the attack on the front foot. So I think he's a very lively president. We don't know what the, you know, we saw him do some drastic changes in his first two years of this term. Now sort of you might have Trump unbridled, someone who's not concerned about the ramifications on the midterm. Perhaps that has implications with the war in Iran. Perhaps that has implications with more tariffs. But he's not going to be concerned about this looming shadow of the midterms that has probably reined in some of the things he sought to do.

37:40So I don't think the era of Trump is even close to over. I think that day, that sunset will happen. It won't happen until after the election of 2028 because, as Scott pointed out, this is still a guy who's wildly popular within his own party. He's going to have a huge influence over who the nominee is. And if that nominee happens to win, it's a continuation of the era of Trump. Can we put up on the screen what is the average number since World War II that the party in the White House loses in a midterm election? It's 28. Adrian, what Doug Sosnick went on to say to me in the interview is that if you look at historical markers, then this would be one of the largest, if not the largest, Democratic gains since World War II.

38:19But he doesn't think that that will be the case because there's been a realignment in this country, largely along educational lines, and there's sort of a governor or guardrails now built into just how large the victory can be for D's. You agree with that? Yeah, and obviously redistricting is played into that, too. True. But look, I worked at the DCCC during the 2006 cycle, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, when we flipped 31 seats and actually we had a net gain of 31 seats and we had a net gain of six seats in the Senate. We took back the House and the Senate Democrats did. The circumstances are very, very similar.

38:53So all we really have to go on right now is precedent in history and what the dynamics look like at other times in history when we've had the same dynamics that we have right now. We had a blue wave that cycle. Can't for sure say we're going to have that now. I mean, Leader Jeffries has made it very clear. He thinks it's going to be anywhere between, you know, a low of 10 seats and a high of maybe 30, 32 seats. We'll see it. There's a lot of seats that are going to be decided by one or two points. Those could go either way. The one final thing I want to say here is if you're looking at a barometer, Trump's low approval numbers are right around where Bush's were in 2006.

39:27Of course, Bush was fighting two wars. We've got the war in Iran this time around. You know, prices were expensive then. They're high now. And the culture of corruption was our tagline or slogan during the 06 cycle. Similar circumstances here, too. And we had a good Democrats had a good night. Sochi, what does Wednesday look like for Democrats? Let's talk about the D's instead of the R's. Has the bar been set so high because so many promises have been made that can't be fulfilled because President Trump has a veto pen? Well, I think that Wednesday will I think we will still be getting results in, to be honest with you.

39:59We're not going to I am not sure that we will even know who is taking control of the Senate at that point, given all of these races are so close. I do think that Democrats are going to have to Democrats are getting elected because of costs of living. Donald Trump did not deliver on costs of living. Prices are too high. Democrats, everything that they do moving forward will need to focus on cost of living. Give me something tangible they can do on that score. Well, I mean, I think one of the things that they will do is they have already said they're going to use their oversight power to ensure that they are looking into ways, whether it be corruption, et cetera, and ensuring and making exactly what they're doing on the campaign trail, which is talking about your president and the administration and his friends are getting rich while the American people are not getting any.

40:47He asked you how you're going to lower prices. He asked you how Democrats are going to lower prices. Yes, and that is part of it. How are you going? Not a single Democrat is running on a single policy to lower a single price. That's not true. They won. Yes, let me tell you. Getting rid of Trump's tariffs, restoring health care subsidies. getting rid of this, being done with this lower health care cost, suspending the gas tax in some of these states. There are places that you can go ahead. It's blue states that have higher gas prices. There are, what are you talking about, Scott? California? There are all across the country, there are states where there are high gas prices.

41:20Do you think it's still acceptable to have$4.50 gas prices? Is it acceptable for it to be$7 in California? It's not acceptable, and none of it is acceptable. People are hurting right now. People are hurting right now. And you can do things. And Republicans have had the opportunity. I agree. They're in control of everything. And they haven't delivered on cost of living. So it is time for Democrats to start doing that. Sochi, we're all wound up here. He only asked you a simple question. I did. What is a single thing that a Democrat could do to bring down gas prices? One thing. They can do away with the gas tax.

41:52Would you build a pipeline, a refinery, or drill for oil? They can suspend the gas tax. The sage at the end of the table. Let me just say, please. Two things can be true. Three things can be true. Listen, this is the reality. He's a lame duck. Two years. He's going to get nothing done on Capitol Hill. That's just the reality. There will be intense investigations into his administration. There will be findings. Those findings will be sent to the states. They won't be sent to the Department of Justice because there will be no prosecution. There will be prosecution from the state attorney generals for sure.

42:23What that will be, I don't know what it's going to be. However, there's also this other parallel road that we're going to see Donald Trump on. And that's going to be the, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want to do the next two years, and nobody can stop me. And there's a lot of truth to that because there's no accountability for the president of the United States. The most tangible prize at stake on Tuesday, the federal bench and the ability of Democrats, if they control the Senate, to thwart nominations for lifetime appointments. That's what's at stake. And I'm not just talking about the Supreme Court.

42:50Most law gets made in the appellate court system. Next, we'll react to your feedback from CNN.com slash Abby.

43:13Now some viewer feedback from CNN.com slash Abby. Here's a fave of mine. Smirkanish always looks so confused, like he's hearing about all of this. This is my confused look. Yeah. You know, since he said that. Oh, now you're buying into it. Now I see it. Now it's because of the beard. All right. How about this? It's a little hypocritical listening to all these Trumpers all upset about Alaska and yet feel like I just need 11000 more votes in Georgia is OK. I never said that. Well, he said that. I know, but I've never said that. I've never endorsed that. OK, I don't I don't look. I'm dealing with the here and now.

43:48Democrats have claimed for years now that they are the party of democracy. And one of their main recruits for the United States Senate is trying to rig an election. And all the people who have been complaining about this are awfully quiet about it tonight. That's all I'm saying. You want to say something about this? Oh, I was reliably told that this is a conspiracy theory by some of the very same people we're talking about. I mean, this is just, it's one of those like full circle events that just I think is going to come back to haunt a lot of people who stuck their neck out trying to defend what she was doing.

44:15Here's another one. Come on, Scott. Being American means you can criticize the government. It's the most American thing one can do. This is relative to you and Ilhan Omar and saying she's always critical of the United States. Look, you can say whatever you want. The point was that this is the American dream, and we tried to make this like it's all some positive story. The story is, I don't know why her father ever came here in the first place. We're not talking about her dad, Scott. And I don't know why somebody who's lived her life and enjoyed what you call the American dream continues to crap on the United States of America nonstop.

44:46That's my point. She's allowed to do it. I just think it's terrible. Maybe because the United States of America is crapping on her. Is it? She's a U.S. congresswoman. Donald Trump and the MAGA extremists are crapping on her all the time. They were accusing her of things that she's now under investigation, which there's more evidence in support of her actually having done those things than not. That's not crapping on her. Well, but she's also under investigation by the Department of Justice for a crime that we don't even know if it's necessarily a crime, but it's an investigation because they choose to investigate.

45:11Within 30 days of the matter. Name one Republican in the Justice Department is investigating right now. Right. Name one. I just want to, one, one Republican. Fellas? Just because we investigated Joe Biden. And his son. So just FYI. Why? Because there were allegations. What do you mean you investigated him? Yes. I mean, he pardoned his son. I understand. We investigated him. Are you saying this is a success story? I am asking you. I am asking you. You held into account. No, it was because we were independent. So name one Republican in the Justice Department is currently investigating. One. Maybe they're all good.

45:44Right. Okay. Right. Right. We got a lot of virtuous people. Right. One more. Scott, they're all kind of directed at you. I know. It makes you feel better. They're directed at me as well. This is where Connish auditioning for press secretary. He's ruining the best show on CNN. Send him packing. Back to you. Trump talks way worse about the USA than Omar. That's totally false. Donald Trump loves the United States of America. He knows it's fundamentally the best country on Earth, and he's trying to make it better. Ilhan Omar, if you just listen to what she says about the United States of America, you'd think we'd live in some third world hellhole, and we don't.

46:20We live in a great country, and she ought to recognize that. And she can say it. It's her right to say it, I guess. But somebody who's had her life and her journey, how could you possibly have a negative word about this country? It's a great country. She ought to have some patriotism for it, is my view. We're done? I guess we're done. We're done. Okay. Everybody, thank you for being here. Before we go, catch me every weekday morning, 9 a.m. Eastern time on SiriusXM's POTUS channel. Saturdays, 9 a.m. here on CNN. Thank you for watching Newsnight. Laura Coates Live starts now.

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