NYT: Democrats Linked to Recruiting of Spoiler Candidate

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1:02Abby Phillip: Tonight, it's October, and it's certainly a surprise. Just six days before the midterms, a report that Democrats secretly recruited a spoiler candidate in Alaska. Mary Peltola should resign from the race. I think she should be prosecuted criminally. Plus, a race that could decide the Senate is now a toss-up, as a new picture emerges of how a blue wave could form. Also, has MAGA lost the bros? I do not like this Iran war in any way, shape or form. Why the Manosphere isn't helping conservatives this time around. And sounds like there's only room for one garden with the Knicks, and it isn't the Rose.

1:42Abby Phillip: The owner, James Dolan, has an attitude with players because they don't wanna go to the White House. Live at the table, Caroline Sunshine, Chuck Rocha, sure Michael Singleton, Karen Finney and Leanne Caldwell. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

2:21Good evening.

2:22Abby Phillip: I'm Michael Smirconish in New York for Abby. We begin with the breaking news tonight. President Trump says that a deceptive scheme run by Democrats in Alaska should cost them that Senate race and that their nominee, Mary Peltola, should be criminally prosecuted. Earlier today, the New York Times reported that Democrats aligned with the Peltola campaign were behind a potential spoiler candidate with a similar name to the incumbent. Peltola allies reportedly convinced a retired teacher named Daniel J. Sullivan to run. Their goal to confuse voters and siphon votes from the Republican Dan Sullivan.

2:55Abby Phillip: The Times reports the scheme to find a spoiler Dan Sullivan was internally called the Ballot Composition Project. It included an operative who traveled the state with a fake name, secret trips to Alaskan communities, and involved the campaign's lawyers and senior aides with the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. From Washington to Anchorage, these individuals even considered forming a new MAGA party to draw conservatives onto the ballot. Peltola was definitely aware of the scheme but not directly involved, her former campaign manager told the Times. That campaign manager was fired in August and she tried to retract her comments to the Times before the piece was published.

3:36Abby Phillip: The Peltola campaign has repeatedly denied involvement with the second Sullivan's candidacy and it's maintaining that stance. The DSCC also says it's not involved. Seizing on the report, which could have massive implications for the balance of power in the Senate, the president demanded consequences. I think Dan Sullivan, the fake Dan Sullivan and Mary Peltola should be number one, they should be taken off the ballot and number two, they should be prosecuted. Before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Head to CNN.com slash Abby and weigh in. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the course of the program.

4:17Abby Phillip: Chuck, with a name like Smirconish, nobody ever pulls a stunt like this on me. Is it a dirty trick or is it fair game? Oh, I do this for a living. I had to double check the records. I was like, did I go to Alaska? No, no, I didn't go to Alaska. But look, what I mean by that is this. In congressional races all over America, right now, as we speak, while we're sitting here, to be dramatic, There are hundreds of millions of dollars being spent to lift up third-party candidates to deceive the voters by Republicans with left-leaning candidates because that's good politics for them. If they can siphon off votes from Democrats to DSA-ers or somebody else, it gives their chance, their team, a better chance to win.

4:52And as popular as the Republicans are in these congressional races right now, they've put all those tricks out there. I'm not endorsing this trick. I'm just saying it's the oldest trick.

5:01Abby Phillip: But you don't see a problem with going out and actually recruiting. Like going through the phone book, if there is such a thing and saying, let's find a Dan Sullivan. That's a little bit of a stretch, but I'm just saying it happens all the time. Having actually dealt with this in the 2018 gubernatorial primary in Georgia, Stacey Abrams was running in the primary. This is a good one. Stacey A. Abrams, and she ran against Stacey Evans. We literally said black Stacey, white Stacey, because literally both were state legislators in the state legislature. Nothing we can do about it. It's perfectly legal.

5:34And we literally had we actually had a harder time than in Alaska, where it's very clear on the ballot. Who's the incumbent? We're going to show that. Right. So point being, you've got to trust that you've got to do your work. You've got to make sure voters know, hey, Stacey A versus Stacey E or whatever the names are. And then you've got to believe that voters aren't stupid. And so you may not like it, but it's not illegal. And there's other things going on in Alaska.

6:03Abby Phillip: There's the ballot. Take a look, because you would have to be foolish if you're looking for the incumbent not to recognize the difference as between the two as that's presented. But this is a five alarm fire, in my opinion, for Democrats. This is a tight race. I think a lot of independent voters are going to look at this and they're going to decide for themselves. If your candidate is so good, if the policies you support a representative so great, why would you try to deceive me? Why would you go to this extent to try to confuse me? Voters don't like that. And I think you're going to, Democrats, Karen, are going to feel the repercussions of this.

6:36Why did the Senate leadership find in the state of Alaska prop up a Green Party candidate to try to siphon off votes for Mary Paltola? Was the Green Party candidate named Mary Paltola RSV? Not the point. The point is, you may not like it, but it's the same thing as Elon Musk in 2024 spending hundreds of millions of dollars to prop up Cornel West. It was to siphon off votes. You may not like it, but it is not illegal. I think the difference, Karen, I think the difference with this, though, is the extent by which people on her campaign. She didn't know about this.

7:08Abby Phillip: But she was aware and she didn't stop it. No, that's what the New York Times said. Can I say, I don't know that it's apples to apples with your example. I don't think it is. There's an element of deceit here that I don't think you find when you're spending on a different. You mean there's politics in politics? I think there's a difference. I think there's a difference between this and spending money to elevate a different candidate. I haven't heard from you. What do you think? I think it is a disgrace that Democrats don't think that a woman of color can win a Senate seat on her own. And so they are resorting to dirty political tricks and getting a literal random white man off the street because they don't believe that a woman of color can win a Senate seat.

7:45And I think that tells you a lot about what Democrats actually think about women of color. They do not want to empower them. They do not believe that they can win on their own. Republicans do not have that problem. I don't know what race... It's because you don't have any women of color.

7:58Abby Phillip: I see a lot in this story. I don't see race in this story. No. I don't know why you go there. Well, can somebody, maybe a Democrat at this table can answer for me. If you believed in your female woman of color candidate so much, why did you have to go find a random white man to help siphon votes? Can anybody answer that for me? Can we take a step back and understand why we're in it? Can anybody answer that, though? Let's talk about why we're in it. Can you answer that? That was the choice that they decided to make in terms of... Because they didn't believe in her, right? They didn't believe Actually not.

8:26She's the one person who actually won statewide. Leanne, go ahead. Wait a minute. We'll just take a step back. I'm not sure that race is really the thing here. What it is, it's a state that Donald Trump won by double digits. Democrats saw softening in Dan Sullivan about a year ago. You saw that in how Dan Sullivan was actually acting in his Senate votes on the Senate floor. He was getting very nervous and saw weaknesses in his home constituency. And so whether this was right or wrong to do ethically, that's not for me to say, but it is not illegal. And it is another instance of where Dan Sullivan was actually not really prepared and Republicans were not necessarily prepared for a very difficult race in Alaska, which was very unexpected.

9:15And at the end of this may have changed the tide.

9:17Abby Phillip: May I say, I'm not prepared to declare this as being a dirty trick, but not necessarily illegal. Todd Blanche was asked about this on Fox today. Roll that tape. The question, Mr. Attorney General, is not whether or not it's cheating, not whether or not it's fraud. The question becomes, if we hope this doesn't have an impact on the election, is it illegal? Right. Absolutely. Well, think about what you just had to ask, Will. If it's cheating, if it's fraud, is it illegal? And the answer is it certainly should be. I don't know enough to know. I mean, the witness who went to the Times, the individual who was the source who went to the Times and then wanted to retract her story because now it's going to come out.

9:58Abby Phillip: Was she leaned on? One more point I want to make. And I want to know where did the money come from to fund all of this? And was there a proper distance between a PAC, a super PAC in this case, and the campaign? I'm just saying a lot we don't know. And how did they convince this guy to do this? What was he promised? What was he given? I'd like to know those details. Of course. I don't know if I necessarily believe it. I think it's important to say as well is this has already went to the Alaska Supreme Court. They've already ruled on this. Now, there could be one is deception. They didn't know the details at the time.

10:26I think it's important to put that out there. But I do want to just make this point because it goes to something Leanne was saying. The reason that we are having this conversation in part, I mean, this is this ballot has been in place for quite some time. If they were so worried about it, they could have done something weeks ago. So we try. It's important. And you lost, by the by. So I think it's important to note it's because they are so terrified. We're talking about Alaska, Kansas, Mississippi, states that have not been on the board for Democrats in a very long time. And if Todd Blanche is so concerned about voter fraud, I certainly hope he will show up in Minnesota, where James O 'Keefe was arrested today with one of his colleagues for literally red-handedly trying to vote illegally.

11:09Well, I think it's very clear that if you guys were that confident in your Senate candidate, you wouldn't have had to go with this scheme of finding, again, a literal random white guy off the street to put on the ballot. I'm so glad you all of a sudden care about people of color, given the way your party doesn't seem to do policy questions. You still haven't answered my question, which is why is the Democrat Party in Alaska? Why do they not think a woman of color can win on her own? I don't agree with that. I don't agree with your premise. Do you have an answer for that? I don't agree with you.

11:32Abby Phillip: May I just say for all Republicans, and I'm not one, like, thank God for the New York Times and their investigative reporting. I mean, they did a great job. Is that irony not lost on it? Are you praising the Times? I posted that yesterday, Michael. I said, isn't this ironic? Reporting from the New York Times, it typically doesn't cover Republicans in a favorable light. In my opinion, they put the spotlight on this scheme. This was a scheme. And when it comes down to it, this race has been within the margin of error, either plus three or beyond three. And I think it changes the tides for Republicans because I think independents will see this and they will feel that their autonomy is being taken away from them as voters.

12:07Abby Phillip: May I say I was critical of the administration when they when they said they wanted to be interventionalist in Alaska. If it's a close race and it looks like this is going to tip the balance. I'm now wondering whether the administration knew a little something of The Times reporting. Can I also say I see this as an endorsement? You don't like that? No, I see this. I think you're being a little ridiculous. I think we're being a little ridiculous. I'm being ridiculous. OK. All right. The night is young. Let me let me just say this. I see this as an endorsement of ranked choice voting because old school.

12:37Abby Phillip: that could have been a thrown away vote. In this case, theoretically, if you name both of those Sullivans, it's going to be a wash. One more thing I want to show. Lisa Murkowski, can we put that up on the screen? Known for her independence, here's what she said about this today. Alaskans deserve the honest truth from Mary and her campaign. What has been revealed is a pattern of lies and cover-ups and a culture of deception that belongs nowhere in our elections or among our elected officials. Karen, you would agree she's got to say, has got to stand up. She should have said something by now. Actually, she has.

13:08I was pleased to see. I don't know if you saw the Durham reporting when I was at the hotel right before I came over here at 9 o 'clock. What did she say? She said she did not. She addressed it in the context of an event. She addressed it. She said she was not aware of this. Now, that is, look, so many things candidates have no idea that they're, you know, consultants or what have you. I'm sure we'll be learning more about this. There's one other point, though, I do think we ought to put on the table about this employee. And I'm not saying this, you know, maybe her story is true. Maybe it's not.

13:35She actually was filing a wrongful termination lawsuit and then pulled it and then talked to the New York Times. So there's there's some fishy stuff going on with this person.

13:44Abby Phillip: Well, maybe she was disenchanted because of what was going on on this issue. You get the final word. What is it? Well, Republicans in the past, they recruited in Alaska an inmate in New York, prison in New York to be on the ballot. So, you know, I think that the there might Trump said that they should be prosecuted. We'll see if there's a Justice Department investigation into this. I think that's the one thing that we do actually need to watch when it comes to this. OK, well said. Next, Republicans are more anxious tonight as a new poll suggests a deadlock race in a deep red state. This as Barack Obama and Donald Trump again hold dueling rallies.

14:21Abby Phillip: Plus, has MAGA lost the manosphere? Why the same bro podcasters who promoted Trump in 2024 not feel in him this time around.

14:47We'll be right back.

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15:44Abby Phillip: In these final days until the midterms, Democrats have a new reason to be optimistic, and Republican anxiety has another reason to swell. New polling out today finds a dead tie in the race for South Carolina Senate, widening the Dems' possible path to win control of the chamber. Further reflecting the GOP's jitters, a pro-Trump super PAC just made a big last minute buy for ad time in the Palmetto State, adding to the avalanche of cash that's already poured in. With less than a week to go, Republicans are right to worry. Recent polling suggests that Trump's approval has plunged to 34 percent. The majority of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track.

16:19Abby Phillip: And 60 percent say that the cost of living is the most important economic issue. Nothing else even comes close. Leanne, Trump's approval, if I put him in the high 30s and I'm being generous, is about where W stood in 06. That's when Republicans lost 31. This time, Republicans can only afford to lose three. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Also in 2006, no Democrat incumbent lost that election either. House, Senate or governors, I don't think that's going to be the case this time because of redistricting, but it is a really interesting anecdote. When it comes to South Carolina, back in August, I interviewed Annie Andrews.

16:59I was down in the state. It was before the runoff with Darlene Graham. And I was talking to the Democrats, the National Democrats about it. And they were kind of dismissing this race at the time. They said, no, there's no money that's going to go in right now. We have no plans to. It's not even the top of the stretch of the races. And, you know, I talked to the DSCC this week and And they said, well, Leanne, you were right. We are obviously putting money in. There's a lot of money in on both sides. And the fact that South Carolina is actually in play, this New York Times polling today showing the race tide is exactly what the internals are showing as well.

17:37And the Democrats I talked to actually cannot believe that the race is this close and that they are possible that they could win in South Carolina. That New York Times is everywhere tonight. But anyway, what I want to say on top of that is what we forget about South Carolina. And that is Lindsey Graham, God rest his soul, when he ran himself for a primary, we forget that there was 40 percent of the Republican primary electorate who voted for somebody else. That does not mean, and I am not a stupid Democrat, no matter what none of y 'all say, think that all them Republicans is going to run over and vote for a Democrat.

18:06I don't think that. But in the atmosphere that we're living in, you have a portion of those people who are just mad, who wouldn't vote for Lindsey Graham, who I don't think are going to vote for his sister. So I want to bring two things together. So I also worked on Jamie Harrison's Senate race in South Carolina. We spent some money there. We sure did. But similarly, what we saw in the polls, the people were sick of Lindsey Graham. We heard things in focus groups like all he wants to do is be on television. He's never here. So, again, he was already, you know, problematic. Then if you look at what's happening, I mean, Annie Andrews is actually winning non-voters from 2024, new voters from some of the folks who were first-time voters in 2024.

18:49She's actually peeling off a slice of the Trump coalition. And having been the DNC communications director in 2006 when we did so well, I was with the folks who said, I even asked friends of mine in South Carolina, and they were like, no way, no way. But this is the kind of environment that we started to see in 2006 where things were popping all over the country that you couldn't have anticipated as the president's numbers continue to go down and the economy continue to worsen for people because it's the only way in the midterm they can express how angry they are.

19:24Abby Phillip: I was being generous to the president when I put him on an equal playing surface with W's number. I could have referenced Harry Truman and said that Truman was at 33, and by one poll, Trump is at 33, which is a hell of a lot worse. Caroline, normally our presidents get a wartime bump. Hasn't happened this time for President Trump. Initially, at least, there's a bump. Sometimes that takes a turn. Iran is at the root of a lot of this, no? But I don't think it's going to be a factor in South Carolina. I think South Carolina is not going to elect a senator who believes that men should play in women's sports and that it's OK to chop off children's genitalia.

20:00That is not something that South Carolina is going to vote for. And those are positions that Annie Andrews holds and publicly stands by. Now, I will say Vivek Ramaswamy took a lot of criticism this week for an ad that he put out about Amy Acton's mother. But the hypocrisy I saw was that the progressive left, the Young Turks, political media organization masquerading really as a super PAC, put out an ad essentially outing a dead senator. An ad featuring alleged male escorts who had been with Lindsey Graham. And I don't think South Carolina, with their tact, is going to go for such a disgraceful political stunt.

20:41I mean, have they no morals? Have they no bounds? I thought it was not okay to out anybody in this country, let alone somebody who's dead. And they've done that as a political trick, political smear, because apparently that's what Democrats are into this week, because I don't think they think they can win.

20:54Abby Phillip: I watched it. I wish I had those 30 minutes of my life back, but I don't think that that was a campaign commercial. I don't think it's okay to out anybody, and I definitely don't think it's okay to out somebody who's dead. Okay, I'm just making a separate... Maybe that's why I'm a little more progressive than the progressive left. I'm just making a separate point, which is to say that there are commercials, you know, commercials that are professionally produced and put out by campaigns and paid for. And then in the world in which we live, somebody can put out video like the banana commercial in Michigan.

21:21Abby Phillip: And all of a sudden, everybody treats it like it's the real thing. I'm just talking about morality. And that's where my moral line is. So, Michael, last time a Democrat. I'm sorry. Can I just correct you for one second? Annie Andrews has been very clear on the record. She does not support gender affirming care for people under 18. I just wanted to make sure we're being accurate. Go ahead, Schumacher. I was simply going to say the last time a Democrat won statewide Senate 1998. It's been a long time. And when I look at the fundamentals, and the president has been to South Carolina, I think, two or three times now, spending more money there.

21:50It is a close race within the margin of error. I will acknowledge that. I think it ultimately comes down to turnout. You have Republicans. You have independents. I do worry about our ability to maximize those right-leaning independents, turning them out. They're not happy. I get it. But I think when you draw the contrast to the opposition, my hope is with the proper messaging, we can turn those individuals out. If we do, I think we win the race by two points.

22:14Abby Phillip: I just would circle back and say, I don't think this cycle, the trans card, if you will, is working the way it has in the past. And I'm shocked, this is going to floor you, that that's not a conservative issue to own a live and let live mentality. And, like, why are we beating up on that community continually? Oh, because it's about protecting children. No, it's because it works for all the wrong reasons. for many people at this table to know that that is still an 80-20 issue. So I think we should all leave New York City and go talk to the American people where you will find it is an 80-20 issue.

22:43Abby Phillip: I don't deny that, but that doesn't make it right. Okay, I want to show something. This is President Obama tonight again. It's the Cheesecake Factory. Of course, the real problem is price has gotten so high, a lot of folks can barely afford to go out to eat.

23:01So you would think that this administration wouldn't be spending time worrying about that? But that was the interesting thing about how the administration responded to the speech I gave the other day. They did not dispute what I said about them being directly responsible for rising prices. They did not argue with that. They did not deny terrorists were contributing to higher costs for families, but he was very upset about the Cheesecake Factory comments. He took great umbrage.

23:41Abby Phillip: Leanne, I thought the better part of the clip, we didn't show it, is when President Obama established his bona fides with regard to Cheesecake Factory, speaking about the girls and all the time that he spent there and Chuck E. Cheese, which completely resonated with me. Thoughts? Yeah, my thoughts are Cheesecake Factory is delicious. Like who doesn't love gigantic cheesecake? But the thoughts are my thoughts are it's interesting how these rallies, especially Donald Trump's rallies, are really not talking about a lot of issues. It is really there to connect with voters. It's more of like a comedy routine.

24:13It feels really good. He's making people happy who are at these events. And he's not really focused on the issues that a lot of the candidates want him focused on, which is trying to feel what people are feeling and talking about the affordability.

24:27Abby Phillip: But it's all about motivation. Gone are the days of persuasion. And Trump's damn good at it. Give him credit for that, right? There's nobody better in that environment than what he does. And who is he talking to? He's talking to his base, not the broader Republican Party, not independents. He's speaking to his base, and he understands them better than anyone else. What's going to excite them? What will mobilize them? And as long as he's successful in that objective, I think every single one of those Republican candidates that you're referencing who are talking about the issues will appreciate that when you need 2 % to win.

24:55When you don't believe that the line has moved back to South Carolina, and it could or it couldn't. Again, I run campaigns for a living, and I'm not here to be waving the flag for the Democratic Party. I'm paid to win campaigns. And I'll tell you what, don't BS nobody. It ain't the polls. It's watch the money. Everybody knows Chuck Roach's sandwich is no peso, no say so. Watch where they put the money. The money don't lie. When they're dumping money in South Carolina, they're not doing that because the trans thing is working. They're doing it because the trans thing ain't working. When they spent$500 million in Texas, they're doing that for a reason.

25:26Just like when we have to spend money in Michigan to shore up candidates, money don't lie. Chuck, you're right about that. The reason to begin with is that they have a lot more money on hand than Democrats do. Have you met Elon Musk? Now, I ain't real smart, but I know Elon Musk has got some money. Republicans going into this didn't need Elon Musk money. Before that, we outraised you about 10 to 1, and that's because most of your policies are on the 20 side of the 80-20 issue. But those resources have allowed our candidates to maintain their competitiveness in these races. That is a fact. If you were to go back to 2018 or 2009 with these types of circumstances, Democrats would look at a 60-seat victory in the House, or maybe you'd win more seats in the Senate.

26:03So the cash advantage have absolutely made a operational difference. And I'm glad we have Elon Musk on our side because God knows we need him. I agree with Chuck.

26:11Abby Phillip: The cash doesn't lie. Neither does the travel schedule. Those are the two things to always watch. To take a look at a principle in the remaining days and say no. You never get back money or time in a campaign. Right. Hey, some of the loudest voices in the so-called manosphere who helped Trump win re-election in 2024. This election, the Joe Rogans of the podcast world are not leading the charge. What's behind the change? We'll discuss.

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27:17Abby Phillip: Are the bros turning on MAGA? A new CNN analysis finds the so-called Manosphere hosts who loudly helped platform Donald Trump in 2024 have shifted their tone this midterm cycle. Popular podcasters like Joe Rogan, who backed Trump in the last presidential election, haven't used their programs to promote or endorse Republican candidates. Rogan has repeatedly used his mic to publicly go against the president in the lead up to November. What Trump stood for, some of it turned out to not be real. Like one of them was the no wars. Well, look, we're at a war with Iran. So that wasn't real. I do not like this Iran war in any It doesn't make any sense for us.

27:57It's very clear. It's a giant quagmire. You're setting a precedent If you allow a militarized police force with no identification with masks on to enter into cities Of course people are gonna say this is an overstep. Yeah, of course. It seems crazy This government has done some that no government has ever done before and one of them is the crypto stuff The crypto stuff's nuts and then the sons are involved in these businesses and like there's a lot of money flowing around that you could dig in and start arresting people. Well, sometimes it's like you just get fed up. You're like, where the f*** are these Epstein files?

28:32Who the f*** is this?

28:34Abby Phillip: Why is this redacted? The young men who flock to these podcasters are also distancing themselves from the president. At least 70 % of men under 30 say they disapprove of Trump's job as president. That's in Harvard's latest youth poll. Caroline, the podcasters, this is an area I think I know well, They're not ideological like the conventional AM talk radio hosts. That's part of the reason why they're stepping out on the president. True. It's also part of why they have the influence that they have. And, you know, I want us to win the midterms. But if we don't win, it will be because the president's staff failed to execute his winning playbook in 2024.

29:13And right now, I don't see the staff doing any of the things that we did to win in 2024. We're not live streaming the rallies. We're not making TikToks. We're not going on podcasts. We're not talking to that audience. I've been saying this for months and I have been dismissed. Hey, guys, we need to go talk to Joe Rogan. We need to go talk to Theo Vaughn. We need to go talk to these young men. Are you in the comment sections? Are you hearing what they're saying? Why do you think they haven't followed your advice? Are you even listening? Because I don't think they have. I don't think they I don't think the president's staff trusts his instincts.

29:44I think the president has winning instincts when it comes to understanding what young men want, whether he's talking about immigration or keeping us out of the Middle East. And I really beg the president, when he wins the midterms, please, Mr. President, get a staff that understand where young men are at, that know how to execute that message to them. Get Ukraine to the negotiating table and that war. Get back to all of your winning policies on immigration and talking about that. And stop listening to Nicki Minaj and start listening to young men. I would agree, but I just got to interject a little bit here.

30:16What do you mean get Ukraine to the negotiating table? You mean Russia? I mean, did I say Russia or did I say Ukraine? No, you didn't. I'm just trying to ask for clarity. Why Ukraine? What did they do that was unlawful, illegal, immoral, and unethical? It wasn't the Ukrainians. It was the Russians. Because hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are dying every day in this war. And the only way to end it was not the Ukrainians. This isn't about starting a war. This is about ending it. No, no, you're being intellectually dishonest. The only way to end this war is for everybody to come to the negotiating table.

30:45Who started the conflict? And that means Ukraine. Who started the conflict? It's not about starting the conflict. And it's not a conflict. It's a war. It's a war in which innocent civilians, hundreds of thousands— So the Ukrainians should come to the table over something they didn't start? Are you for— That's never been the posture of the United States. The posture of the— First of all, Ukraine's not a NATO ally. The United States has no role in this war except to end it. And the only way that it ends is by yanking funding from Ukraine, getting them to the negotiating table— Oh, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

31:09—and ending the war peacefully. What's your solution? You are incredibly naive if you believe that. Okay, so you want hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians to keep dying— pressure on the Ukrainians instead of the Russians. What are you talking about? Because the Russians have come to the table, and the United States is at the table, and the only way to end the war, do you understand the difference between life and death? I don't think you do. I don't think you understand these issues at all. The only way to end the war is for Ukraine to come to the negotiating table. And the only way for them to do that is to bank their funding that the American taxpayer generously gives them.

31:36Abby Phillip: I want to move on. That sounds ridiculous. I want to talk about the podcasters. I want to talk about the bros. I got some bro comments. Okay, I want to advance a theory, and then you can respond to it, okay? All right, Michael. There's a fellow named Brian Rosenwald. He earned a Ph.D. He's at Penn, University of Pennsylvania. I already lost me, but go ahead. He wrote a book called Talk Radio's America, explaining how talk radio hosts paved the way for the election of Donald Trump. So I asked him tonight, what explains the podcasters not being aligned with Trump? Put it up on the screen. Here's what he said.

32:07Abby Phillip: His answer, by the way, is a tale as old as time. He said the bottom line when it comes to the media is it's all about the money as a fictional character once said, and few hosts of any stripe are going to do something that puts them on the wrong side of their audience, which threatens the bottom line. Is he right? It's all about clicks. It's all about money. It's all about revenue. Yes, Chuck? It is a lot about that. And I'm not going to disagree as an ad maker for democratic politics. But I'm one of the few Democrats who give Donald Trump credit for bringing a lot of new people to the presidential election.

32:40And he's desperate right now to get those people back because it's the only path he has from a profession to win because he needs those people to show up. These podcasters aren't beholden to anybody. And they are beholden to their audience, to your point, to get the clicks and have them follow them. And when the entire country is mad, they could be mad at Trump for the war. They could be mad at Biden for this, but they are mad. For the first time ever, everybody in America is a monolith and they are monolithically pissed about their lives. It could be their gas prices. It could be their eating bill, but they're just mad because it's harder for people to make it.

33:11A lot of them, and I'll stop here, gave Donald Trump a shot because they thought he'll break it and he'll fix the system because he's not part of it and he didn't. And they're pissed.

33:19Abby Phillip: The wrong track numbers, which I think are at about 71%, are just stunning. Off the chart. I just want to speak to this more from a communications professional perspective, which is, so, you know, Edelman does their annual trust survey. They've been studying this for a very long time. And this year's dynamics, one of the things I talked about is, while more young people are going to these spaces to get their information, They trust it less, what they're finding this year as opposed to last year. So I say that just to say, just because young people are in these spaces, we don't know that that means that that then is influencing their behavior.

33:56I think there's a lot of assumption made in 2024, and some of it maybe did. But I think there's so little we actually know about how, because we don't know a lot about their audiences. Who are they? Where are they? I think you don't, but I do. I worked on the campaign that won and knew a lot about them and how to turn them out. You didn't. Well, okay. Good for you. You happy now? But I think part of understanding. You act like you're being so dismissive to young audiences because I can clearly tell you don't understand them. I'm actually not being dismissive. I'm saying there's one party that doesn't understand them, and that's your party, not mine.

34:26Okay.

34:27Abby Phillip: Finish your thought. Yeah, no, I want you to finish your audition. So what I'm saying is I think we have to recognize that because people, there's so many places where they get their information, It's important to figure out what is the information, what is the source that is most influential. I think Trump himself was what was most influential wherever they heard him. And they feel like he has what they've been saying to us for over a year and a half is that he broke faith that he said no new wars. He said he was going to release the Epstein files. Those are the two things that keep coming up over and over again.

34:59And so wherever they heard him, it seems like they're angry because they feel like he broke his word. But I think you have the community. I was just going to say, it's interesting that you brought up that quote from Brian, because if it is really about money and not wanting them to lose their audience, they are obviously seeing something in their audience and hearing something in their audience. Right. Yeah. They're following the audience. Exactly. And so whether it's the chicken or the egg first, it almost doesn't matter. But there might be there's a reason why they are breaking from this president.

35:28He also said, getting back to Ukraine and Russia, that he was going to solve this war in the first 24 hours on day one. He was obviously much more complicated than that. But these young men have wanted a president and a government that looks out for them. They thought that that's what Trump was going to represent. And it looks and it seems to them that he is focused more on ballrooms and more on wars than their economic availability. All right.

35:58Abby Phillip: We're moving on. Before we do, do you want that gig? I heard what she said. Do you want that gig? What is the gig? The White House gig. The president's his own best spokesperson. But I do wish more people from the White House would come on this show and defend him. Okay. I do, too. Yeah. I think we can all agree people are pissed and I was right. But go ahead. Y 'all can all agree that I was right. The president is his own best spokesperson. And I'd love to see that get more airtime on this network. Okay. Next, along with their championship rings, the Knicks have an invitation to the White House, but that invite is reportedly causing some tension between the locker room and the executive offices.

36:32Abby Phillip: We'll debate that next.

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37:47Abby Phillip: After winning the NBA championship this year, there are rumblings that some New York Knick players might not make the traditional trek to the White House. Here's what Stephen A. Smith is claiming. This is what I've been hearing, and I'm going to say it. Don't know how much truth there is to it because I haven't heard from the players directly. But one of the things that people have been talking about around New York City and around Madison Square Garden is that the climate was a little bit different. People have been a little bit stressed because the owner, James Dolan, has an attitude with players because they don't want to go to the White House.

38:26Abby Phillip: Karen, I want to restore a monoculture. I like I like tradition. Yeah. President Trump, of course, should have attended President Biden's inauguration. And based on this, I want the Knicks to go. I want us to have something in common, regardless of who the president is. I don't want politics to get in the way every time. I want the Knicks to sell sneakers to red states. Your thoughts? I love that idea. Look, the challenge, though, is that is a normal standard for a normal time. And we are not in normal times anymore. We are not in a time we are more divided than ever. People are, I think, some of these players, from what I've heard, You know, they come from communities that have been very harmed by the policies of this president.

39:11And so I feel and frankly, whoever's in the White House, I hear you. And I wish that could be true. Which communities and how have they been harmed? Excuse me. I'll finish my thought. What I would like to see, though, I think, player, go if you want to go. Don't go if you don't want to go. Your job was to win the championship.

39:27Abby Phillip: I'm not for forcing them, Leanne. I'm not for forcing them. I just wish they would go regardless of who the president is. You've got intel. What is it? Oh, I have intel from my Puck's colleague, John Orend, who's our sports writer at Puck. And he says that Jim Dolan, the owner of the Knicks, is actually very close with the president. And so what Stephen A. Smith said, even though it might not be true, he says, it is plausible. Dolan got married at Mar-a-Lago in 2002. So they have a really tight relationship. And so it's understandable that Dolan would want his championship team to go to the White House to celebrate.

40:03Great. My colleague also noted that the Knicks don't play in Washington until mid-December, and that's usually when the teams will attend the White House, so they still have about a month and a half to figure this out.

40:16Abby Phillip: Caroline, it cuts both ways. Like, if invited, and I want them invited, I want the Knicks to go. But I have to say, the president, he rescinded an invitation to my Philadelphia Eagles in 2018, and that's not cool. So I want everybody invited, and I want everybody to go all right well that was then and this is now you know we have to go forward as a country and look as somebody who has worked at the white house if you get invited it's an it's an honor and frankly i think you're missing out if you don't go regardless of who's in office it's the people's house it belongs to the people and i think they would be surprised the president's quite charming in person i remember being there when he welcomed the ncaa champions and he served McDonald's and Chick-fil-A and burgers to them on the White House's fine china.

41:01And I watched these guys who were, you know, six to tough guys. I don't know if they voted for him or if they didn't, but they had a great time and they deserved it. And so this is their win and it's the people's house and it's a house full of winners and they should go enjoy themselves. Chuck? Look, I'm with Karen on this. You should be invited. You should go if you want to go. You shouldn't be forced to go. I think that there's folks who have different opinions. Sometimes my wife is doing a truck retreat this weekend. and her and her mom are giving out candy, and they're dressing up, and I am not going.

41:29I was invited, but I am not going, just to tell you. Chuck, I just found out about my wife is doing something like that with my daughter. I'd never heard of that before. You can't be forced to go if you don't believe it. Oh, I don't know about that, fellas. I don't know. My big ass will be there. Michael, I agree with you. I think normalcy matters. Customs of behavior, I think, are incredibly important, and we're seeing less of that. And so if a team is invited, I would encourage them to go. I don't believe in compulsory force, though. So if guys don't want to go, I wouldn't force them to go. But I would love to just see a team that's been successful.

42:02They did well. They're great athletes. To go to the people's house and celebrate that victory. But I do understand the political dynamics.

42:08Abby Phillip: I'm only here for a couple of nights. I'm going to take my 30 seconds right now to say that my mantra is one of societal disconnect is the greatest problem that we face. And what we most need to do is restore common experience, elements of the monoculture. You know, the days when everybody watched the same show at the same time. Hopefully it would be this one when Abby is back. And we would then go back to work the next day and have something that we could talk about and break bread. And we could join and we could volunteer. And that's where I think, that's where I'm coming from when I say like, okay, I get it.

42:38Abby Phillip: You've got to beef with the guy, but what the hell, suck it up and go for one day. Next, we will react to your feedback from CNN.com slash Abby.

43:01Abby Phillip: Time now for some viewer feedback from CNN.com slash Abby. I kid you not. The host seems unprepared and lacks critical thinking skills. That's one. Oh, come on. Get Smirconish out of there. He's ridiculous. And then here's my fave. Wow. Smirconish compared Trump to Truman. Trump will be writing a long post tonight. I hope it's at least 1 ,400 words because Mar got 1 ,300. And other reaction from the program. How about this? I think the spoiler candidate will backfire on the Democrats in Alaska because many people will vote on the wrong Sullivan just because it's funny and it's going to take votes away from the Dem.

43:42Abby Phillip: Anybody think that voters are going to come out just to have some fun and games? Well, I think it's important to let people know whether it's right, wrong, or indifferent is that folks have been voting in Alaska for a while. Alaska is such a rural state that it's all vote by mail. So lots and lots of ballots have already been mailed in. It's going to take a long time to get those results, too. Yeah, great point. I try and train myself to say instead of election day is Tuesday, the conclusion of the midterm election comes Tuesday because more than 30 million have already voted, and I think sometimes we lose sight of that fact.

44:13Abby Phillip: Yeah, I think you're right. And in Texas, there's been almost 3.5 million people that have voted earlier. And I've been telling folks, and this is my Super Bowl. I'm working on 22 congressional races and a bunch of Senate races. Michael, I've been encouraging everybody to vote. Sure. I'm a Democrat. I get paid to make ads for Democrats. But I love to see folks participating in our democracy. I like folks getting out there. I love to see new ideas. I like folks. That's why I'm a guy that would give Trump credit for getting new people out. Whether you use podcasts, whatever he was using, I want more people voting.

44:41Abby Phillip: Yeah. That's a line that I used with our kids. Go cancel me out if you think you know where I'm coming from. I'd rather have you vote and cancel it out than not vote at all. Quote, they love the New York Times today. That would be Republicans. They love the New York Times today, but will not validate their reporting tomorrow. Will you validate the New York Times tomorrow? Of course I'll validate good reporting. I mean, come on. I'm not an illogical person. Sure. Why not? If it's good, I'll validate it. Even if I get Schermacher to do it tomorrow. And if it's biased, I'll say I think this is biased, but I can understand the perspective.

45:09I mean, come on. I'm not intellectually dishonest.

45:11Abby Phillip: Caroline, yesterday we talked about a Times editorial that said Trump wants to make it about him. Give him his wish. It should be a referendum on him. And of course, then they argued it's time to vote against anything that he's for. Well, he's definitely on the ballot. And I admire that he's putting himself on the ballot. And the closing question I would present to voters is, yes, your gas and your diesel prices are high. But do you think that electing Democrats is going to do anything to bring those down? No, because nobody who is elected to power as a Democrat is going to do anything to help President Trump.

45:41And we know that. So don't be a pawn. And if you vote, if you stay home, it's not a protest. It's a surrender.

45:47Abby Phillip: Earlier in the program, I tried to make a pitch for rank choice voting in the context of Alaska. That prompted this comment. Rank choice voting is the way you may not get your first choice, but the people will surely avoid the worst one. I like rank choice voting because I think it forces compromise among the electorate and who you're going to select. Leanne, any reaction to that thought? I don't have much of a reaction except the fact that more and more places are doing rank choice voting. They are trying this experiment, or some have been doing it for quite a while. I live in Washington, D.C.

46:16They had ranked choice voting for the first time this election. And so more and more jurisdictions are testing it out. I'm not in favor of it. I mean, D.C. just elected a socialist mayor. I mean, I get it. I get why you're in support of it. Well, but I think there needs to be a little bit more voter education about ranked choice voting. because the kinds of questions that you hear from people when people say, well, wait, so how do I vote for the person I really want? It tells you that people are not quite sure how to pick their number two, how to get their number one. So I do think there's still a lot of confusion.

46:53I hate it. It creates pathways for really bad candidates. That's why I'm very skeptical. Can I just defend you very quick for the viewer who said not prepared. I disagree. This is a lot harder than it looks to the viewer at home.

47:03Abby Phillip: Oh, wait, this is the job interview. You were in his seat. You might find you hired about as long as Katie Zechariah. Let's see how she defends me. Go ahead. Make the case. I'm just saying you're prepared. I'm saying that it's a lot harder than it looks. And if you were in his seat, you might find that you might last as long as Katie Zechariah. You are nice to defend me, but I don't need defending. Chuck, does South Carolina support nepotism hires? Look, right now, nepotism could be a word for what's really unpopular right now, and that's people in power. Democrat or Republican folks are not happy with incumbents, and that's the nepotism that's hurting her.

47:38Abby Phillip: Thank you all. This was terrific. Everybody, thank you for being here. Before we go, catch me every weekday morning, 9 a.m. Eastern Time on Sirius XM's POTUS channel, Saturdays, 9 a.m. Eastern Time here on CNN. Thank you for watching News Night. Laura Coates Live starts now. The real cost of a break-in isn't your valuables. It's the feeling that your home stopped being safe. SimpliSafe keeps danger away from your family with three layers of protection. One, smart AI cameras and live U.S.-based agents help stop intruders before they break in. Two, we sound the alarm at points of entry. Three, our agents request emergency response.

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